I am alarmed not by the fact that the Law is being preached; but that those who are preaching it are not only falling away from the faith; but also transgressing the ones they are not preaching! Here is an example of some I've seen in this forum of late:

Here is one I've seen regarding abortion:
Exodus 20:13
Thou shalt not kill.

Here is one regarding those who worship on Sunday:
Exodus 20:8
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

And every member preaching the above laws is openly transgressing this one:
Exodus 20: 7
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Now I do not see ignorant folks in this forum; on the contrary I've conversed with some very intelligent individuals here; I've never once walked away from this website without gaining something useful pertaining to Scripture. I've sometimes seen the Concordance exhausted and utilized more so than the Bible in certain threads; I see many people using the Concordance to defend some of their doctrinal beliefs (which is absulutely fine, I'm not complaining about that)

Here are some points to consider:

1. Knowledge has increased as we were told it would in the latter times.
2. None of you are ignorant.
3. Seems some of you are versed in Hebrew and Aramaic and even Greek (thanks Strong and Vine)

And here is what is disturbing:
You who preach the Law; continually profane the Name of Yahweh. And His Son; Yahshua.

Here is what profane means:
To treat with irreverence: profane the name of God.
To put to an improper, unworthy, or degrading use; abuse.
Also it means to pollute; wound; dissolve; stain; defile.

And here is Scripture:
Romans 2:23-24
Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Please stop doing what you are doing; for unless you can clean your filthy garments acting upon the Law and Commands, then you should not be preaching in the name of Jesus or Christ and using the law to convict and prosecute and accuse your fellow brethren IN faith by grace through Yahshua Messiah when you cannot or do not even sanctify His Name-which is 3rd in line on the Commands.

James 4:11;12 (NIV)
Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12:There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you-who are you to judge your neighbor?

amen selah amen well said this is what i first noticed when i joined a christian forum for the first time i could not believe what i was seeing unfold

i had problems all day yesterday from my side of the world i could not sign in and today i am able to sign in


we have a few hear who are doing this and they have done nothing but brought his name down probably even turned off potential christians this is my concern how many have been turned off from following christ due to the judges who preach the law


aman selah






Damo

Amen Selah Amen,



This is a good verse.

If I have ever judged or slandered another, I repent. If I have posted anything defamatory about anyone, pm me the link and I will remove it and publicly apologize.

1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

It is not the preaching of the law that brings an offense, it is the spirit in which it is done. I believe that this is what Selah is getting at. Sometimes people have an offense already operating in them so they cannot hear but through the filter of hurtful past experiences with such a subject.

The object is to catch the fish before you gut him.
The object is to draw with the cords of love and intreating one as a brother.
Too often people do get the cart before the horse on the issue of application of the law of God, which laws, to whom, and when.
Yah has concluded all under sin that he might have mercy upon all.

Not every man has been called to preach just because he is enlightened.
To be frank, some here in this forum who, though what they are saying is true and right and correct, their spirits are pretty nasty.

To be equally frank, some here in this forum would cry and whine because their flesh got wrinkled because someone said something they personally did not agree with and take it as a personal attack on their faith or presumed authority! If that is the case, then the ground your standing on is pretty shaky.

2Ti 2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

I believe that there are some here who are striving for mastery, and are doing so in the spirit of Love for the truth and for their neighbor.
I believe that there are also some here who are striving that they may obtain a corruptble crown.
Yet there are still more who are not striving at all, unless it is for the very purpose of sowing the spirit of discord.

So it is going to take a spiritual man to discern the intent of another, but if one is already defiled then so will everyone else be in their eyes.

I pretty much agree and I am one who preach the Law, but people also have to keep in mind how Jesus had to deal with some people. Jesus put love on the table and also Jesus put fear on the table. In certain cases Jesus had to get tuff with people mainly the scribes and the pharisees we have to realizes that this a spirituall war.

Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake.

1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

This is the time we are living in.

2Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

so does it give you the right to get tuff with others who do not agree with you from diffrent denominations ? wher you hide behind the verses you know jesus got tuff for a reason it does not give no one the excuse to over ride what jesus said in the gospels or the right to abuse the gifts he gives us

jesus got tuff for a reason he did not get tuff because he was gods son he dealt with the pharisees due to what he was seeing

no one has a right to bash people over the head come down on some one who does not agree with you or force some one from a diffrent denomination were they come around and listen to you we have spirit filled traditional christians in this forum bro tan also as i said my concern is new members potential christians who have been turned off or hurt or ganged up on because they stand out


jesus did not turn his hearers off the only ones who were threatend were this religous lot




Damo

Thank you all for commenting on this thread. It is actually more disheartening for me to witness former Christ followers turning toward the law and thus by doing this they themselves are not condemning those they are preaching it to-they are actually judging themselves and by doing so have fallen from grace.
Here is grace:
Genesis 6:8
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

I noticed Bro. Tan that you are not even aware that you yourself are placing yourself in the seat of a pharisee. Yet you say well that this is a spiritual battle; then why are you preaching a physical law?
If I abide in the commandments and laws under the Levitical preisthood; then by my fruits I am denying the one who came who was greater and better. The law cannot save you; if that were the case then why did Yahshua go to the cross?

I also notice those who preach the law; tend to stick with OT passages ONLY. What about the Gospel? It's hard to quote from the Gospel and NT if you are using the law as your foundation isn't it? Who were the people Yahshua was dealing with that were accusing Him of transgressing the law of Moses? Are you not falling under that same catagory by preaching the same to "Christians" and others?

Can the law of Moses save a person?

And do you understand that when you preach this law or that law that you are the one transgressing and condemning your own soul? Man was not made perfect in the law of Moses. And Yahshua was thusly crucified IN the flesh-forget about laws for a moment and consider the Just One who was nailed to the cross so that you are taken from the bondage and judgement of the law of Moses and the Levitical way's. Do you offer a bull or goat or lamb or dove on a literal altar you have for your daily transgressions? I think not. Then why are you under that covenant?

You can say "Jesus" ten million times Bro Tan but you aren't preaching Him; you are preaching Moses and Levitical which was BEFORE the FINAL sacrifice for all mankind-so please I ask you for your own soul; repent or continue and stop profaning His name in the process. If you are preaching the law; you must also abide in ALL the law yourself.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

You absoutly right, no one should bash people over the head, but its up that individually if he or she stands to be corrected in the word of God.

Paul said

6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

this is why i have been tackling what you leave i am not attacking you as a person only what you leave due to what i have wittnessed not in this forum but in real life jesus had compassion on the people he did not come down on his hearers like he came down on the religous lot the more i look into the lives of the pharisees i am seeing why gods son came down on them did you know that the pharisees added extra commandments just to keep them selves from sinning ?

soon as gods son comes on the sceen he sees right through them and if gods son was able to see right through this religous lot think what wil happen to those who hide behind these old laws the pharisees preached and believed in by saying they are moses disciples

the pharisees even twisted what god gave to moses moses was a righteous man but even moses slacked off bro tan and god had to rebuke him knowing the law did not stop god from nearly killing moses i am not sure if he was going to kil his son for not being circumcised or moses for not circumcising his son yet it was moses wife zipporah that saved his hide

most of the israelits slacked of and poor moses had to deal with the grumbling

i have seen what hapens when you preach nothing but the law jesus did not preach fear bro tan he came down on the pharisees this is why he was so harsh with the phairsees to say he preached on fear you then need to look at what he said to the roman solider who asked jesus to heal his servant and then look at what jesus said to the cannanite women who begged him to heal her daughter

when jesus saw the crowed and how they had followed him he had comapassion on them

this is wher you need also to be care ful that you are not twisting concerning how jesus dealt with the pharisees to wer you make it look like he was coming down on his hearers it was the gentiles who stoped to listen to him while this religous lot wanted him dead as i said he saw through the pharisees they added extra commandments bro tan to stop them selves from sinning when gods son comes into the picture he sees through them and confronts them

keeping the commandments and knowing the law wil not stop you from sinning


i attack what you leave bro tan due to what i have experianced



Damo

I agree with the situation with moses and Jesus saw right threw with the pharisees, but we must keep the law.

Jesus taught to fear him. Lets take a look

Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Now these verses goes without saying, sin is put on the table, so if sin is put on the table, then you have to have the Law brother and sisters.

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

10:28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

One thing I realize is that some people have not receive the knowlegde of the truth, people are going to be judge according to the Law, that is simple truth sisters and brothers.

Here is an easier way to understand what Apostle Paul (the one converted) is saying:

4Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church![a] 5I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers!

Are we not all believers in the forum? I know I'm a believer-and that is about the only thing I am confident enough to say with boasting. So why is another believer in Christ judging me and other believers for not honouring a particular day? And why are "believers" in this forum with other "believers" talking about the condemnation upon those who kill babies? This is an equivalent example of exactly what Paul is stating.





The Gospel refutes what you are saying. We must follow the Lamb Bro. Tan; not go back to the law, else we recrucify the Son of God! And that is not possible! He is our living sacrifice once and for ALL.


And the above has nothing to do with the law of Moses.


And that is obvious! It is easier for heaven and earth to pass than for *some people* to realise and understand that the law was taken to the cross. When heaven and earth eventually does pass (and it will) you will understand this; but hopefully before this happens!!!


Sin is put on what table? Sin is crucified with Christ. You have to have Christ in order to be redeemed from the law. The law points out sin. Christ covers you in His blood which removes sin. So if we are covered; why are you still preaching the law unless you do not believe we are covered?


True and yes.



Believers do not despise Moses' law. We are graffed into the vine by our faith in Yahshua Messiah and that has not one thing to do with the law of Moses or despising it.

Read the whole chapter Bro Tan: Here is the very first passage:
Hebrews 10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

3: But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

Read this next verse carefully:
9: Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

What did He take away? What did He establish? Next verse:
10: By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

That's it! Once for all. So why are you going backward Bro Tan?

To bro tan


no jesus did not teach us to fear him why on earth would john leave this in 1 john 4




1 John 4 English standard version


16 so we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us God is love and whoever abides in love abides in God and God abides in him

17 By this is love perfected with us so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment because as he is so also are we in this world

18 There is no fear in love but perfect love casts out fear For fear has to do with punishment and whoever fears has not been perfected in love


you have been given this verse bro tan and i notice when ever this verse is given to some one like your self who preaches nothing but the law you come down on us who do not agree with the way you see it for your self again i am going to point out to you as you agreed no one should bash anyone over the head are you in agreement to keep this topic of selahs flowing peace fulley or are you in agreement to where you try to get me and selah to cross over to where we alow you to teach us as i said i am attacking what you leave you said ask any pastor why they dont keep the sabbath day why dont they rest on the sabbath day

you have been told why and you have been given what paul said to the jews who were trying to trap the Gentiles like circumcsion and how some who have been circumcised try to force us guys to do what is not recommended no more

you hate what i stand for and you cant handle guys like my self and my fiancee who is a female pastor


do you realy think god is going to punish me come judgment day for keeping sunday as the day i worship him i dont worship the day bro tan like i see when it comes to some proffessing christians who worship the day and not the creator

what john said should have never been left in 1 john 4 v 16 - 18 if you are to say we are to preach nothing but the law were we lord it over our members and tel them if they dont fear god they wil go to hell fear has to do with punishment bro tan are you keeping all the laws since you say you are a preacher of the law ? do you observe all the laws and not just the ones you are comfterbal with

knowing the old laws and keeping the sabbath day and keeping the 10 commandments wil not save anyone or wil it give them a free pass into heaven and the denomination you belong to wil not get you a free pas into heaven the catholics think that the pope is gods representative who has been given the keys jesus gave to peter the catholics think because we have the pope as gods represntative on this earth we have a free pass to heaven

your denomination you belong to wil not get you a free pass into heaven its up to god not up to you or up to me bro tan or the pope who goes to heaven who goes to hell i belive some wil go to hel but its not up to me to say who wil go to hell look over jude the book of jude tells me who wil go to hell those who reject what we have to say and follow satan wil go to hel and only god knows who satans followers are bro tan not me or you or the pope who thinks he has the keys jesus gave to peter


why do you kick agianst me and selah and any one else who does not agree with what you leave

you agreed but i am starting to wonder in what agreement are you bro tan agreeing when i said no one should bash anyone over the head

oh while we are at it since we have preachers like you teling us if we dont keep the laws keep the sabbath and abide by the 10 commandments

what wil happen to the animals when god decides its time to judge this earth is their a heaven and hell for our animals who are living among us and in the sea ? is god going to punish a cat a dog a bird a shark a fish a turtle a rat a mouse a horse a cow a pig or a sheep if they dont worship him and honor him and keep all the things you are saying

you say we wil all be sent to hel and when i question what you leave bro tan you think i am not worthy or i must be weak because i use my head and dont alow my self to be trapped or do i alow my self to be decieved

hay hear is somtheing i want you to look at and respond to and you tel me bro tan since you think you know were all souls will be going




Ezekiel 18 English standard version


4 Behold all souls are mine the soul of the father and the soul of the son is mine the soul who sins shall die


do you agree or disagree with what Ezekiel is saying are you in agreement or do you feel Ezekiel was lied to when he was told to jot this down if all souls belong to god bro tan then how can you say bro tan in this forum who wil be sent to hell and who wil be sent to heaven when not even jesus or the angels know when the day is going to be where his father says its time to judge this earth but we have proffessing christians like end time thinking he is with in his right to come down on us and force us to repent he thinks he is with in his rights to call anyone out who does not agre with him

Know listen to this and you tel me if you agree or disagree i am not your student bro tan or do i come to your topics to learn from you as you might be thinking or am i a stupid man as you might think i am bro tan


20 The soul who sins shall die The son shall not suffer the iniquity of the father nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son

The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him self and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself


know if god is saying he wil only deal with the soul who sins and only punish the soul who sins why do we have proffessing christians saying god wil punish the son or the daughter for the sins of their parents ? i hear proffessing christians who are good at lying and twisting gods word just to get there hearers to fear and honor the one who is preaching you take the focus of god to where you put your hearers focus on to you and if your hearers disagree with you you punish them by saying if you dont listen to me god wil send you to hel you tel your hearers dont listen to god or read your bible listen only to me i have all the answers god has ordained me to be your shepherd i am the one he talks to he wil not talk to you with out first talking to me

see what i am saying bro tan you have god saying one thing and then you have proffessing christians trying to throw the ones god sends off god to where you have those god sends to you listening only to you with out ussing the brain god has given them studying or linning up what is preached people who have no clue to how a church runs or functions become easy targets for dangerous unstable pastors and teachers who think they have this special gift were they are the only ones god has given the ability to teach

gods son jesus not god drew his hearers to his father he often talked about his father go over john 17 to see were i am comming from not once did gods son jesus turn his hearers off or did he lord it over his hearers jesus taught his disciples wel jesus thanked his father for giving him the disciples who became his loyal followers

did jesus ever take the glory upon him self did he put him self above his disciples washing the disciples feet serving he came to serve not to be served does that ring a bell ?



21 But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right he shal surely live he shal not die

22 None of the trangressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him for the righteousness that he has done he shall live

23 Have i any pleasure in the death of the wicked declares the lord God and not rather that he should turn from his way and live

you come down on pastors for not teling their memebrs to keep the sabbath rest i am also good at picking out flakes and if i pick out a dangerous christian who is unstable i wil dril him guys who preach nothing but the law bro tan dont leave what i have left even though they know that these scriptures are in the bible they avoid this and do what you do

bring out your doom and gloom scriptures that is why i am drilling what you leave if i wanted to attack you personaly as a person bro tan i would not be this soft with you you have not seen what some have seen when it comes to me dealing with a flake prophet i dont back off and its gods spirit that gives me the right words to say just like paul rebuked that young girl who kept on saying these men are of god you are to listen to them they wil tell you how to save yourselves from judgment what does paul do he rebukes her her masters see that they cant make any more money out of her and paul gets into trouble he saw through her and rebuked the spirit he did not hate her he hated the sin

christians i have ran into hate the person and hate the sin were jesus says hate the sin not the person


you are dealing with some one who has studied up on cults and who has dealt with false prophets and false pastors i have also helped those stuck in cults escape to where they get the right help we have a good team in our church in australia that deals with cults and we pass on what we know to others who are intrested

neither me or my fiancee who is a female pastor force the members to listen only to us i dont belive in doing this bro tan i know god wil deal with me if i lead any one astray i dont come hear to seek a following bro tan or do force any one to hear what i have to say its up to the reader or person not me to take on what i leave

i dont need to do that were i have members hear deffending me i can stand on my own two feet i am a real person bro tan even though you only see what i leave you and i dont appreciate you thinking i am a sick person because i tackle what you leave and find my way into your topics you leave in this forum



you preach the law i preach the true gospel christ preached thats the diffrence with me and you bro tan


i am not your enemy and dont treat me as your enemy or look down on me because i have a fiancee who is a female pastor who wil be my wife on the 18th of dec 2008 so far you have not attacked me by getting at me and saying my wife is braking one law if i hear this i wil then pounce on you i am very prottective over my fiancee pastors have no time for them selves they put up with a lot and they are always dealing with people they know nothing about

she is under my covering and i support her 100% i dont want to hear how we have broken one of his laws al due to us going to church on sunday were we can meet with god fellowship with like minded souls encourage pray over a new beliver or over a brother or sister and share what he has done in our lives i dont worship the day like some proffessing christians do or do i stress out saying is he going to punish me because i do as his son did

paul preached on the sabbath day jesus healed on the sabbath day this is why he was also hated by this righteous lot bro tan he healed on the sabbath day their day of rest



now answer to the way i am asking you with out twisting or only agreeing with few things that i have said i am not your enemy we both pray to the same god i dont pray to the god of this earth who is satan




Damo

The Law that we have been delivered from is the law of sin and death.
Death being the cost of sinning, in both seperation from God and the sacrifices, rituals, and cleansings that were required to atone.

No man is justified in the sight of God by the sacrifices, oblations, offerings, and rituals performed by the law through the priesthood of Levi.
There remains no more sacrifice for sin (Heb 6) Because the perfect sacrifice has already been made once and for all.

The gospel is not primarily about forgiveness of sins. There was already a system in place to do that. The gospel is about making a "New creature" that is righteous and holy in NATURE and not by RITE. It is through this process that forgiveness and cleansing is obtained through the word of the HIGH PRIEST JESUS. THis is why the law of ceremonialism and ritual (priesthood of Levi) is taken out of the way. (Col 2)

This is why I made the statement in the previous post about the law.
Most people do not know what they are saying and most do not know what they are hearing (the miracle is in the hearing) when it comes to the covenants. Because after they came to Jesus the doctrinal pimps showed up who made their own rituals and laws like Mass, the Apostles creed, etc.

Take the statement "were not under the law" WHat exactly does that mean to four of five different people? To those who have been walking, running, stumbling, or crawling for any length of time? To a catholic? A protestant? A messianic? It could mean 20 different things depending upon how transformed the mind is either by the Holy Spirit or by institutional thinking.

Oh! I get it. After 20 or 30 years of life in darkness, stupidity, sin, and debauchery, God has mercy on our wicked soul and Presto CHango!
The tree of righteousness has arrived! Without having any knowledge of God other than what it took to finally get you to pop your head up out of your sinful goffer hole to find out why the wind is blowing in a different direction than from what you have been used to.

People who assume the roles of Pastors and Priests will be judged as Pastors, and Priests.
Moses lifted himself up and failed to sanctify Yah in the sight of the people and it cost him the promised land.
On the other hand, the people who loved their egyptian gods and ways died without mercy under Moses and an even sorer punishment is upon those who despise the one who told us what is right and what is wrong. THat man is Jesus, who was in the beginning, with Moses, and should be with us today.

Hi Selah

You got the royal law and the animal sacrificial law mixed up. Let me break it down a little here, so we can understand
what law is still here and what law is not.

If there is no law there is no sin. Sin is not imputed or no blame can be accredited to any person when there is no law. But, in I John 3:4 it states, "whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." So if the law was nailed to the cross that would mean its okay to use the Lords name in vain, put other gods before HIM, make graven images and bow before them, pollute the Sabbath day, steal, commit murder, commit adultery and bear false witness. If all these things are okay to commit, then we might as well throw the Bible out the back door and do what ever feels good to us.

We will see that Paul was in fact a law keeper and how he preached out of the Law and the Prophets. Now let's begin by taking a look at both of the laws and how they worked together. We will see there were two laws given to Moses, they were the commandments and the sacrificial law.
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: (Leviticus 4:1-2)

The law in the scriptures above is the commandments. Notice something else very important in these two scriptures. It states, "if a soul shall sin through ignorance." Notice that the scripture did not says on purpose. Why? There is no sacrifice for a sin that is committed willfully.

Let's find out what was to be done if a person committed a sin against the Lord unintentionally. Let's skip down to the 27th verse and take a look at the second law (which is the sacrificial law).

And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar.
(Leviticus 4:27-30)

When the common people sinned through ignorance and it came to their knowledge, what did they have to do? They brought an offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for their sin which they had committed, then the priest would offer the animal to the Lord. Think about this for a moment. If an animal was killed for a person that committed sin, what will happen to us today if we a trespass against the Lord? Now we see how the sacrificial law was used when a person broke a commandment unintentionally.

Let's go into Paul's writings and take another look at both of these laws. We will go into the Book of Galatians chapter 3. This is one of the chapters that the majority of Christian preachers use to do away with the Lord's commandments. Now, let's read carefully!

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Galatians 3:19)

Take heed to what Paul's says above, "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions." What is transgression? Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4) Transgression is braking of the commandments. What law was added because of the braking of the law? The sacrificial law! Paul is simply asking these Gentiles, "why perform the sacrificial law? It was added because of sin until the seed should come. Who is the seed?

Let's back up in this chapter and find out.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ. (Galatians 3:16)

Who is the SEED? CHRIST! So, this law was added (which is the sacrificial law) until Christ came. What was the sacrificial law used for until Christ came?

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Galatians 3:24)
The sacrificial law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Before we continue, we must clear one thing up. Are we justified by faith alone? Let's see. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31) What law is established? Certainly not the sacrificial law, we have seen above that it was added because of transgression until the Seed came (which was Christ).

The law established forever is the Lords commandments! Now, let's back up in this chapter to the third verses and point out the two sets of laws.

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Galatians 3:3)
The spirit in this case is the word of God, but pay close attention to what Paul says at the end of the verse. "Are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Can we be made perfect by the flesh? What flesh is Paul talking about?

Let's go to the book of Hebrews and find out. For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

The flesh Paul spoke of was the animal sacrifices. Notice what the verse says, "never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect." That's pretty clear don't you think?

Let's go back to Galatians chapter 3 and take note how Paul uses the word "law" but does not say this is the sacrificial law or the Commandments. But as we read further in the chapter we will see the difference between the two.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)

We have both Laws with in this verse. In the first part of the verse where it states, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:" This law is the sacrificial law, let's skip to the 13th verse and we will see this clearly.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: (Galatians 3:13) PAY ATTENTION PLEASE

Notice what's being said, "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us." How was he made a curse for us? He took on our sins and redeemed us from the curse of the sacrificial law which could never take away sin. Now take a look at the next set of verses and we will see indeed that only the sacrificial law was nailed to the cross.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (Colossians 2:13-14)

Notice this, "He quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross. Why was this law (which is the sacrificial law) contrary to us?

Notice this in Hebrews the 10th chapter;
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. (Hebrews 10:4)
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. That is why it was contrary to us. The sacrificial law simply could not make us perfect.

Now let's look at the second half of the 13th verse in the book of Galatians chapter 3. 3
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: (Galatians 3:13) Paul is simply quoting Moses, take a look.
His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. (Deuteronomy 21:23) Go into the Book of John chapter 19 verse 31 and you will see that Jesus was removed from the cross before sun down.

Let's back up in Galatians chapter 3 to verses 10 and watch how we have a different law in the second half of the verse.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)

This law is part of the commandments.

Once again Paul, is quoting Moses, let's take a look.

Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. (Deuteronomy 27:26)
Let's take a look at some of these laws in Deuteronomy 27th chapter.
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say, Amen. Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say, Amen. Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Cursed be he that lieth with his mother in law. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Cursed be he that smiteth his neighbour secretly. And all the people shall say, Amen. Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. (Deuteronomy 27:19-26)

After reading through some of these commandments ask yourself, what's wrong with these laws? If we say we are followers of the Lord shouldn't we keep ourselves from doing these things? Yes! If the sacrificial law was the only law taken away when Jesus was nailed to the cross, which would mean all the other laws are still intact.
Commandments, High and Holy Sabbaths, weekly Sabbaths and the Dietary law . We can't stop here.

Let's go to the Book of I Timothy chapter one and see if Paul kills the Lords commandments.

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: (I Timothy 1:5)
What does he mean the end of the commandment is charity? What is charity? It means love fore mankind correct? Now take a look at these verses in the Book of Romans.

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13:8-10)

Take heed to what Paul says, "love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love (which is charity) is the fulfilling of the law. Paul says, "If you LOVE your neighbor you will not, commit adultery, kill, steal, bear false witness nor covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Once again Paul is quoting from the books Moses!

As a matter of fact Paul was quoting the Lord God, remember the Lord gave the Laws to Moses. Take a look.
Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ---, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. (Exodus 20:13-17)
What do we see here?

We see Paul is inline with the rest of the Bible. He is not trying to do away with the Lords commandments. It is the false prophets that do not read the entire book from Genesis to Revelation! They are trying to do away with the Lord's laws. Paul was well aware that the law was to be kept.

Greetings Bro. Tan and thank you so much for such a detailed yet brief understanding of the sacrificial law! You're correct I can see I was confusing the law (10 Commandments) with the Levitical law/sacrificial law. Whenever I read Leviticus and Exodus I do tend to get overwhelmed admittedly; by all the ritual and sacrifices and commandments and oaths and curses and priesthood. I apply all of those things to the heavenly priesthood which gives me a better understanding; but still not a full view of how so much was taken to the cross and thus done away with here in earth.

I do understand what you're saying that of course we as believers in Yahshua Messiah cannot go kill someone with the mind-set we're saved. It is the Christ like mindset that actually restrains us from transgression in all manners of the Commands-I think you would agree? And the Christ mindset is what we are coming to; some further along than others; but nevertheless, those who endure until the end will be saved.

I guess my main concern which I see everyone in this thread missed from the OP is the transgression of the 3rd Commandment. Why do we call Him Jesus? ( I sometimes call Him Jesus Christ) but mostly I call Him Yahshua Messiah, which may not be spelled correctly, but is His name the one given by the angel to Mariam. Noone can deny that He came to His own (Hebrew speaking peoples or Aramaic) and His own knew Him not. So if we're going to preach the Commands and yet continue to transgress number 3; then where does that leave us? How can one say; you must observe the 4th Commandment or else; and yet transgress the 3rd?

I do lean more toward the understanding that in fact His blood does cover all sins; otherwise there are about 7 billion people on this planet unsaved. I believe He is there when we fall; because when we abide in Him, we are not looking at the 10 Commandments as a check off list; we are looking at Him who understands our weaknesses and our short comings and also our ignorance. If I knew of someone who honoured the Commands to the letter; I would consider that person a righteous judge of the law, because that person has been made perfect through the law of Moses. But what I've found is only the practising Jewish men honour the law and abide in it; but they lack Messiah!! So...in the long run; which is greater? The law of Moses which shows us our sins and can help us to know what is sin; or the Saviour of the World? Yet even the most declaring Jews of Yahshua's ministry also knew not the law! Nor could they thus keep it:

John 7:19
Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

The Jews even then did not know how to honour the Sabbath Day; so how can we know now? I have actually tried to honour the Sabbath; but I always end up thinking; "should I be doing this?" "I wonder if this is honourable"? It winds up being a miserable day-and I'm just being honest! Because I know and realise; that there is not one thing I can do that could top what He has done already. So I just lay all my sins and burdens and shortcomings at His feet of Mercy.

Do you understand these things Bro. Tan? I do not believe Messiah is a "get out of hell free" as some have shown or stated. But I also do not believe He is a condemner. I believe He forgives; even the most horrendous sins *if we ask and repent* And walk out our salvation with repentance and humility. So with that said; how then can a person who is just a man like me or you, come along and judge with the law; without knowing that we are under grace? Only God knows our hearts.

I hope I made sense; it isn't the easiest to explain. And I do love God's law and commands; I just do not agree that another person here in 2008 has any right to judge by those law's-it is evident that lawlessness is ABOUND and who can know who is walking in repentance and who is not; lest we end up judging wrongfully a person who is under grace and mercy...for example; and person who has had an abortion, or committed adultery, or a soldier who has killed an inncocent person etc etc...OR a person who continues to prafane the name of Yahshua.

Hi Selah,

I'm happy you understand whether you agree not, cause it a lot to understand and it takes time. I want to make a
point concerning the Law and judging.

2Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Now the royal law is what seperate people from people, and this is what we have to understandl. Lets
take a look at something Jesus said

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Listen to what Jesus saying here, I came to bring division, cause once you bring the law in your house, here comes
war.

1Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

We dealing with some serious stuff, God is not playing, people are teaching contrary to the Bible.