In a post on this forum Selah brought to my attention the following:

Revelation 13:16 And he CAUSETH all, small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads:

He causeth them....he doesn't force them but causes them to receive a mark. That is a very important distinction. That trick is done through deception.

11 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Some, especially rapture believers, see the tribulation as a time of terrible wrath and earth dwellers will be forced to take the mark. Well, we see from the above that isn't true. The time of wrath is after the deception tribulation....and it is the wrath of God on those that fall for the deception.

WW

I am not sure where you get your water supply. But from whatever source it is, or what you put into it (scoth maybe) I would have the water checked for impurities.

I think its something that WW drank that is the problem here !

Now WW is "speaking "for" those who believe in the gathering" - Typical

Maybe she should ask someone who has not been drinking her water source to explain to her as to why there is a gathering up and why some people need to go through the trib period and others do not.

Cheers

Love IN Christ - M M

>WW gets water [which she thinks are people] from Arnold Murray and his Sheppard's Chapel crowd

"Some, especially rapture believers, see the tribulation as a time of terrible wrath and earth dwellers will be forced to take the mark. Well, we see from the above that isn't true. The time of wrath is after the deception tribulation....and it is the wrath of God on those that fall for the deception"

>Totally incorrect understanding here

>What do you think that the beast and his false prophet will do to convince his followers .... create a Disneyland on earth for them during the tribulation period?

>The beast is a destroying angelic and his hallmark will be his ability to destroy the enemies of his followers

>This is why they will admire and follow him

>Your Murrayology has placed you in confusion .... he has blinded you

>This is what will be going on during the entire tribulation period

Revelation
13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Zechariah
14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Daniel
11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

>You, just like all who carry post-tribulational thinking, attempt to shove all of the tribulation into a compressed time frame at the end of the period

>Murray does this so that he can insert his fairy stories and lead you into the tribulation period by telling you that there is no "rapture" before

>The Lord will allow you your desire if you are living at the time, and in you will go

>You think that you will be protected bcause you are a "British Israelite .... another one of Myrray's sliding of the hand and idea that he received from Herbert Armstrong and Willian Branham ... both false teachers and noted false prophets .... Murray is the same by the way

>And you think that you will have plenty of time during the beast's reign of "peace" to prepare for your perceived resurrection at the end of the period

..... head cutting will most likely be your fate if you repent

>If not, you will be killed in the tribulation and lost forever

>This is what will take plce at the end of the tribulation period ... the Lord will turn on the beast and his followers and destroy them

>This action is referred to as specific "wrath" designed to wield against the beast and his followers in order to destroy his kingdom rule that will last for 42 months during the second half of the period; and is only part of the tribulation period of the Lord's hour of trial

Revelation
16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

>Your views of the time of the end and the tribulations of the Lord's wrath against intransigence and unbelievare grossly confused

In a post on this forum Selah brought to my attention the following:

Revelation 13:16 And he CAUSETH all, small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads:

He causeth them....he doesn't force them but causes them to receive a mark. That is a very important distinction. That trick is done through deception.

11 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Some, especially rapture believers, see the tribulation as a time of terrible wrath and earth dwellers will be forced to take the mark. Well, we see from the above that isn't true. The time of wrath is after the deception tribulation....and it is the wrath of God on those that fall for the deception.

WW,

Very interesting observation!
Thanks for sharing it with everyone

Here is an example of Cause


Let's use numbers as it's a reminder for me personally...I can't find anywhere in the bible where God subtracts (relief) just add and divide! Thank you, LORD!

If you percieve the no. 1, because you did, another point is made' (cause) which starts out as no. 2.
If no. 2 comes into being, it creates a divide (another point) between 1 and 2, which now no. 2 becomes no 3 and the point between becomes no 2....

1 . 3 < now there are more created points/spaces between 1 and (./2) and (./2) and 3

but note not only does it fill between, it expands too....no 2 met no 3 and made another point beyond 3...which started out as no 4, which created another point between which caused no 4 to become no 5 and the point between became no 4...and so on

There's also another way to look at it...1 and 2 could be filling in between with 2 being in a constant state of change, taking on higher counts while passing the lesser to the points between.

Just thought I would share some of my ramblings!

What was the first thing that reflected off the face of the deep?

Many blessings
Cizz

WW,

Very interesting observation!
Thanks for sharing it with everyone

Here is an example of Cause


Let's use numbers as it's a reminder for me personally...I can't find anywhere in the bible where God subtracts (relief) just add and divide! Thank you, LORD!

If you percieve the no. 1, because you did, another point is made' (cause) which starts out as no. 2.
If no. 2 comes into being, it creates a divide (another point) between 1 and 2, which now no. 2 becomes no 3 and the point between becomes no 2....

1 . 3 < now there are more created points/spaces between 1 and (./2) and (./2) and 3

but note not only does it fill between, it expands too....no 2 met no 3 and made another point beyond 3...which started out as no 4, which created another point between which caused no 4 to become no 5 and the point between became no 4...and so on

There's also another way to look at it...1 and 2 could be filling in between with 2 being in a constant state of change, taking on higher counts while passing the lesser to the points between.

Just thought I would share some of my ramblings!

What was the first thing that reflected off the face of the deep?

Many blessings
Cizz

if you are expecting a literal computer chip or something to be enforced by the antichrist, than I ask you what you believe this means: And yes, I am serious.

2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." Rev 7:2-3.

This seal can't be invisible or symbolic if you interpret the mark of the beast to be literally physical. You can't change the rules of interpretation like that.

if you are expecting a literal computer chip or something to be enforced by the antichrist, than I ask you what you believe this means: And yes, I am serious.

2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” Rev 7:2-3.

This seal can't be invisible or symbolic if you interpret the mark of the beast to be literally physical. You can't change the rules of interpretation like that.

I believe the mark of the beast is Islam. They are constantly persecuting Christians and it is estimated that by the end of the century most of Europe will be Muslim. They have over 109 verses to persecute infidels in their Qur'an and there are already established Sharia Banks that only deal with Muslims. So the mark of the Beast could be accepting this religion which is a perversion of God's word, and unless you are a Muslim you will not be able to buy or sell.

researcher

Matthew 7:20 - 23

Verse 20 - ""Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them"

Verse 21 - "Not every one that saith unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven ; but he that "doeth the will of the Father" "

Verse 22 - "Many will say to me in that day, Lord , Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name ? and thy name have cast out devils ? and in thy name done many wonderful works ? "

Verse 23 - "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you : depart from me, ye that work iniquity"

researcher , would you like to consider these verses "first", before you put your foot in your mouth ? Gosh that must taste awful !

IN Christ - Christ IN -- M M

Considered. I'm led by the Spirit everyday. It's supernatural.

Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Not everyone is.

I consider what you write, not what you say as to who you think you are !

I know for a fact, that "what you just said", is like putting your foot in your mouth !

You shall know them by their fruit, not who they say they are !!!

IN Christ - M M

I don't believe you are a Spirit filled or Spirit led Christian. How would you like me to treat you?

I treat my Spirit filled brothers and Sisters the way we are supposed to, with Love. But not everyone is Spirit filled.

WW

I am not sure where you get your water supply. But from whatever source it is, or what you put into it (scoth maybe) I would have the water checked for impurities.

I think its something that WW drank that is the problem here !

Now WW is "speaking "for" those who believe in the gathering" - Typical

Maybe she should ask someone who has not been drinking her water source to explain to her as to why there is a gathering up and why some people need to go through the trib period and others do not.

Cheers

Love IN Christ - M M

To subtract from :

To take away, or to loose that which you have. = Subtract from. "Loss" is another word for "subtract". Reap corruption , is another. Soweth to the flesh - reap corruption - Sowth to the Spirit "reap" life everlasting - Gal. 6:7 & 8.

Loss - I Corinth. 3:15 - to suffer loss, is to not get what you could have gotten. God gives, if you suffer loss, it is taken away from you.

Matthew 18:12 - have 100 sheep and loose one. one subtracted from 100 leaves 99.

IN Christ - M M

Thank you for the blessings Cizz...I need and accept them always. As far as the rest....I'm afraid you lost me at "If you perceive the number 1."


That was too much like....if a train is traveling at 70 MPH and another train at 55 MPH and I stand on my head and whistle...when will they crash?


However....I love your question. "The Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters"....isn't that beautiful? When I think about that...it brings tears to my eyes.


Blessings to you too Cizz......Whirlwind