Debate is like doctrines of men. According to Strong's Lexicon the word debate, means:

1) to strive, contend

a) (Qal)

1) to strive

a) physically

b ) with words

2) to conduct a case or suit (legal), sue

3) to make complaint

4) to quarrel

b ) (Hiphil) to contend against

Merriam Webster Dictionary defines the word debate as follows:


debate

1debate (noun)

2debate (verb)

Main Entry: 1de·bate
Pronunciation: \di-ˈbāt, dē-\
Function: noun
Date: 13th century
: a contention by words or arguments: as a: the formal discussion of a motion before a deliberative body according to the rules of parliamentary procedure b: a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides

The Word debate only appears in the Bible 4 times...

Pro 25:9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbor [himself]; and discover not a secret to another: 10 Lest he that heareth [it] put thee to shame, and thine infamy turn not away. 11 A word fitly spoken [is like] apples of gold in pictures of silver.

Isa 27:8 In measure, when it shooteth forth, thou wilt debate with it: he stayeth his rough wind in the day of the east wind.

Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as [ye do this] day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The WORD is a two-edged SWORD...be careful that you know how to use it. Or you might get cut asunder....

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

This is why I don't debate the WORD. Don't take de bate.

Have you ever noticed that when watching the political debates, that it is moderated, and those debating are held to a tight subject manner? Once they step outside the bounds of the question and limit of time, they are reprimanded, and the debate moves on to the next question. Often we see that even the most heated debate, can be managed in a secure manner, so that no one gets hurt. Here is my point. These debates are structured debate. When debates are not structured, they become harmful. This is why the BIBLE is clear about not debating.

Hi freedom

Taking a stand for truth, is not a debate as you put it. Taking a stand allows others to stand for righteousness and shows others that standing for righteousness is the right thing to do.

If you were to have a moderated discussion, you then would have the moderators being the one's who guide the conversation. I believe that the church should moderate themselves. Paul told us, that when those who want to remain ignorant, to let them remain ignorant because God has called us to peace. However, some believe that God has called them to slander or argue over issues. And that their faith is based upon their ability to argue any topic that comes up. Helping others to see the truth, is not a debate either. It is one's love for another , to help them understand the reality of the truth.

When a poster suggests, that your faith in God is blasphemous, one needs to ask one's self, if one's faith is blasphemeing God , or just blasphemeing the individual. Blasphemeing the individual is a forgivable sin, but to blaspheme the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.

There was a poster here on this forum, which said, that if we do not believe as this person/poster does, that we were blasphemeing God. This was a serious comment by this poster. So serious, that those who stood for righteousness, stood up against this posters comments. And rightly so !

No one within that paticular thread, ever blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Was this a debate ? Actually, no it wasn't ! It was those who know a righteous or an unrighteous comment when they read it. Many stood up for righteousness in this paticular case. While this paticular poster was indeed making an unrighteous comment to certain posters, as well as a group of posters.

Remember, Jesus Christ even told certain people that they were hypocrites. Why ? Because that is exactly what they were ! Jesus didn't debate it, he just spoke the truth. They were indeed hypocrites. They didn't have to like it, and more than likely they didn't. But none the less, Jesus told them what they were ! Jesus even told his disciples that one of the chosen was a devil. Now how is that for being bold ? And guess what ? There was no debating Jesus on this. In fact they actually reasoned with each other wondering which one of them it was.

People have a hard time containing their emotions. Again, so did Peter from time to time. Jesus told him and taught him about his emotions. Peter had fear, and Peter took out his sword and cut off the ear of one of the soldiers. < The two different sides of Peter.

I don't mean to belittle what you are trying to say. Because I see those who do not strive towards unity. I also see those who are silent and their silence is either a sign of their inability to communicate or their fear to speak up.

Truth is righteousness, and untruth is unrighteousness.. < That is not debatable ! For one to say that their understanding is righteous, they must without any private interpretation bring forth their stance of their righteous comments. If they can not do this without private interpretation, then their comments are unrighteous.

For instance, you might not want to discuss with or against someone who believes that devil spirits came down from heaven an impregnated woman here on earth. Is it that it is too far fetched for you to discuss such an issue. Or is it your lack of wisdom that will not allow you to comfront such an unrighteous comment ? Or , is it that you do have the wisdom, but will not engage yourself to explaining to someone the truth, nor will you take a stand for God , and the righteousness of His Word ?

Having these discussion here on this board, is not a debate in my eyes. We are living and breathing people. We are not just some nic on a board. And the discussions are about righteousness verses unrighteousness.

I take a stand for righteousness. And if I am mistaken about something, one "must" bring me biblical exergesis that can show me that my understanding is incorrect, thus making it an unrighteous thought of mine. They can not bring half truths, nor their own denominational views. Because denominational views are not unity. If a denominational view was untiy, you would have to ask yourself, as to why they all differ so, and why they fellowship under differening names !

The only unity one would have is unity within that denomination. But unity within a denomination is not the unity that is being spoken of within the Word of God !

My view is this, you might see a lot of these discussion as debates. But I see them as a means by which Christians have an opportunity to clear the air on all this division that is going on with the Church today. How can one say, that where they go to church is where the truth is, if they have never been taught by that paticular church certain truths ? ? I have seen people on this board, who have said thank you to me, for giving certain understandings, that I have never seen before. One person told me, that I am helping her decern truth from untruth. No matter if you yourself believe as I do. This type of forum gives us this opportunity to share with others , maybe something that they have never been taught before.

God Bless you

Love IN Christ - M M

Mysteryman, go back and read the scriptures. Don't take my word for it, look up the word, debate, in the BIBLE. Healthy discussion, among CHRISTIANS, never belittles others. Unbridled tongues, debate and cause others harm. What we say does indeed affect others. Many that come here, are looking for JESUS in our posts.

JESUS said, you are either with me or against me.

Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.


We can't have it both ways.

There is the difference.

CHRISTIANS are also called into moderation. Another word you can look up in the BIBLE. Moderation of our speech, is what we need more of, not debates...IMO

Hi Freedom

Yes, I know what the word says about "debate". It can cause division. Why do you think that there is so much division within Christianity today ?

But I believe that you are missing the points I have made. Some come here to "debate", and that is very sad indeed. I even gave you an example in my previous post.

In Romans 1:29 the word "debate" is collected with the words - "envy" - "murder" - "deceit" - "fornication" - "wickedness" - "covetousness" - "whisperers" - "backbiters" - "haters of God" - "despiteful" - "proud" - "boasters" - "inventors of evil things" - "disobedient to parents" - "without understanding" - "covenant breakers" - "without natural affection" - "implacable" - "unmerciful" , and all of these are people who are fulled with unrighteousness. Not only that they do such things, but are worthy of death, and they have pleasure with them that do the same.

These kinds of people have no desire for righteousness. In fact they only desire people who are like they are.

Sad to say, some of these types of people come here in the guise of christianity. Saying that they know God, when in fact they know not God, because they do not desire to know God.

These people want to debate . So one must recognize these people.

One way to recognize these people is to question them as to their purpose for saying what they say. Questioning them is not debating them. It is revealing to others who these people really are. They want nothing more than to cause division within those who believe the truth. Or those who desire to want to know the truth. Some people are thankful for the comments being made, as it becomes a decernment in their own lives, as to whom they also see in the part of the world that they live in. It helps them recognize those who desire to walk after righteousness and those that do not.

Too many people label people. One who questions another is seen as a debater by some, when in fact , that is not the case at all.

Am I making myself clear ? I wish not to debate you about this. I want to just make clear, the difference between a debator and one who seeks after truth. Sometimes it takes many corrispondences with a certain person, in order to find out if that person is a debator or one who is seeking truth.

Sometimes the conclusion is very sad indeed.

I want unity, and the unity of the Spirit. I want the desire of our hearts to want unity. But that will not be the case for everyone. In fact , not for most, which truly saddens me.

Most people think that it is their way or the high way. When if fact, it is the righteous way, and only the righeous way.

With God, you either serve God at his table, or you serve God at the table of devils.

As you pointed out, Jesus said, either you are for me, or you are against me. And there is no way of getting around this, correct ?

Either it is righeousness or it is unrighteousness. It is either truth or it is untruth.

I will not debate this, because of the basic fact, that we can not serve two gods. Either we will love the one, and hate the other, ore we will love the other and hate the one.

God Bless - Love IN Christ - MM

I agree Freedom and I'm very appreciative that you are a wonderful moderator... I have literally felt like grabbing a sentence coming out fo my mouth and shoving it back down; but it was too late it had already been uttered. It's sort of strange to me actually; that for the most part I'm a quiet person, but for some reason when it comes to my Saviour and the Word of Yahweh, I'm very bold (not always correct of course) but bold and passionate. I take salvation very seriously for all persons and therefore when I see a person or situation being "accused" I like to also think that person and/or situation deserves a defense attorney if you will.. And what greater defense attorney than the Son of God!! HalleluYah!

But thank you again for the reminder to bridle the tongue and try and rather than causing a heated debate that ends in both parties walking off thinking they've won or lost; let's keep it truthful and with only one winner which is Yahshua. And one ultimate winner which is Salvation for all of us.

I will retreat to this topic for assistance in the future.

You're a dear Freedom; Blessings and love to you and yours in Yahshua's Exalted name!

Opps! Double post.

Bless you and thank you for your kind words, ~Selah~. I am glad that you find this topic a blessing.


MysteryMan, I don't feel we are debating, and this is a healthy discussion. Actually, you have said almost exactly how I feel about debates, with the exception that you feel you must continue on, in order to reach someone. As a matter of fact, Romans 1:29, is one of the scriptures I quoted in the first post here, too. So, we are in agreement, on who would continue in debates. In reading your posts I agree that that some, that will never be reachable. Because their desire is to cause conflict and strife. Divide and conquer, if you will...I'm not saying this in a mean way at all, but even JESUS walked away from the Pharisees. HE continued HIS MINISTRY, even when those opposed him, followed after him. JESUS answered the questions of the Pharisees, but they didn't like what they heard, and sought to kill HIM. HE had one thing, that we don't have, HE knew their thoughts! We have the HOLY SPIRIT to help us discern, others; whether they be of GOD or not...believe me, it was a hard one for me to accept this TRUTH. Please take time to read John 8:40-47. I think you will begin to understand...I am not labeling anyone, just following the WORD. We are called to be doer's of the WORD. If JESUS said it, and we know HE did what HE says HE will do; then that settles it and it is enough for me. If HE walked away, then there also comes a point where we should also walk away. We are to be careful, in how we use the WORD. It is a two-edged SWORD.

May the LORD bless you, dear brother.

Thank you for you considerate response.

Yes, there are times to just walk away from a conversation. Like I said, those who want to remain ignorant, we are to let them remain ignorant. We are called to peace. They seem not to want peace, nor righteousness. Contention seems to be what they desire, and one can find it eventually within a posters immediate response, or it may take a few connections with this poster to find out that it is contention and only contention that they desire.

I have indeed ended conversations with certain poster, one of which was based upon a certain belief, and I knew, that any continuing conversation with this poster would not bring about any logical response.

There are going to be different views at times, and there are going to be some very interesting discussions from time to time. Some people bring up some very interesting thoughts. Some of which brings about some very interesting conversations.

I want to thank you for your concern. I also thank you for at least giving my view as one who can be concerned . I sometimes believe that people can get the wrong impressions when someone is talking about the word "debate". I thought my comments could at least be considered, in the light that they were intended, so that others would not think that all discussions are in some way all debates.

Thanks and God Bless

Love IN Christ - MM

Thank you too, MysteryMan. Yes, sometimes, we just need to walk away from those that are in conflict with the WORD. Why debate, what we know is the TRUTH in the WORD? The LORD will convict hearts, if we pray for them. AS CHRISTIANS, we don't have to have the last word in a heated discussion (debate). AMEN. JESUS knew, that we can't be a LIGHT to the world, that is in darkness, when we debate.

Isn't it a blessing when we are in agreement with HIS WORD.



and I do too.

One more thing...~Selah~, you said something worth repeating. I bolded it above.

JESUS is our DEFENCE. AMEN.

For first of all, when ye come together in the church,

I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

For there must be also heresies among you,

that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

1 Cor 18-19 KING JAMES VERSION
[translation some people seem to think Jesus told us to use]



For, in the first place, when you come together as a church,

I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it.

For there must also be factions among you,

so that those who are approved may become evident among you.

1 Cor 18-19

NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE
["crummy" old bible that "sucks" that I have had for years]

[I cite them both cause I think the latter translation a bit more accurately conveys
the meaning Paul sought to convey

Hi John

Of course I believe this verse of scripture to be true.

verse 17 speaks volumes as well - "Now in this that I declare unto you, I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better , but for the worse"

The first thing I see in this verse, is Paul making a declaration. He simply says, that in doing this Lord's supper, I praise you not. He also explains to the church at Corinth. that the church is to come together for the worse , not for the better.

How many ignore this verse as well as the verse you shared with us ?

In my life time, I have seen many come together for the better, and not for the worse. The church is asked to come together to take care of those within the church. The context here in chapter 11 and verses 17 thru 34 indicates to us, that there are those who are being ignored by doing a communion service , called the Lord's supper. They come together for the better and not the worse. Paul is explaining alot about spiritual things here, but the bottom line is this. The church is to come together , in order to take care of the needs of the church, be them literal needs or spiritual needs. The church in Corinth. was going in the wrong direction, and it was obvious that someone had caused division by having the church come together for the wrong reasons.

God Bless - Love IN Christ - MM

I agree Mysteryman, and John. Even in the early Church, there were those that came in to divide the Church. By our knowing this through the WORD, that we can also discern even today, those that are of GOD and those that are not.