Job 1:6 Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not,
But a body didst thou prepare for me;


Simple question.

Obviously there was more than one "son of God" per the above verses, thus, Jesus wouldn't be the "only" son of God.

Was Jesus the only "son" of God, born in the flesh?

Jesus was a Messenger and the only begotten son of God, who by His sacrifice brought many sons home to their Father in Heaven.

Sounds about right.

Jesus was the only "begotten Son" because God procreated with Mary to bring Him into the world.

Jesus is an Angel, in that He is the messenger [angel] of God..mal 3:

1Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

H4397
מלאך
mal'âk
mal-awk'
From an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specifically of God, that is, an angel ([color="#FF0000"]also [/color]a prophet, priest or teacher): - ambassador, angel, king, messenger.

G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.

Same word, but depending on the context, it had different meanings.. Angel, or pasor, or messenger, or king, or ambassador, or prophet, or priest.

An angel is a created being.

Jesus, as God, always existed and therefore was never created.

Jesus did come with a message, that makes him a messenger. Angels were created to be messengers. This, however, does not make Jesus an angel.

John the Baptist was also a messenger, who is apparently referred to in the scripture above by the first time "messenger" is used. His message--"REPENT! For the kingdom of God is at hand!" (John was not an angel either.)

The above is all clearly in scripture. Why all this talk lumping Jesus in with the angels (yes, referred to as sons of God--that's all)?

Beloved, I do see what you're saying above in a figurative angel (messenger) sense. That makes sense.

In Christ,

Mike

Agree with Mike

The attempt to equate the Lord with angelics has some very sinister moorings hiding in the teaching

There are objectives and motives behind the curtain

It is usually presented by cult type "christian" organizations who desire to create exclusivity for the purpose of retaining membership on the surface

Those who entertain this idea need to back off of it

The deeper suggestion of this lie is satanic

Agreed. There can be no salvation by an angel, only by Christ.

Revelation 19:9-10 (New International Version)

9Then the angel said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!' " And he added, "These are the true words of God."

10At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

I should have had an IQ check in the OP. First, you need a brain to be able to read. Then, you need the Holy Spirit, of which, it appears Steve has neither.

Lmbo

So who are the ones born of God?

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Only those who are born of God can hear him.

Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God.

And what was born of God? Our flesh? Or our spirits? Obviously our spirits.

There were many sons of God, and many born of God, but only one born in the flesh.

And, anything born of God is a son.

Absolutely. And to highlight the distinction, I'll finish your phrase:

"...but only one born in the flesh," who is God incarnate.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Amazing.

In Christ,

Mike

Hebrews 1
1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,

2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son,
whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

3And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature,
and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins,
He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

4having become as much better than the angels,
as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

5For to which of the angels did He ever say,

"YOU ARE MY SON,
TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"?
And again,
"I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM
AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"?

6And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,

"AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM."

7And of the angels He says,

"WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS,
AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE."

8But of the Son He says,

"YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
9"YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS."

10And,
"YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
11THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;
AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
12AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;
LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED
BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,
AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END."

13But to which of the angels has He ever said,

"SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES
A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET"?

14Are they not all ministering spirits,
sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

Hebrews 1
1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,

2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son,
whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

3And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature,
and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins,
He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

4having become as much better than the angels,
as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

5For to which of the angels did He ever say,

"YOU ARE MY SON,
TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"?
And again,
"I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM
AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"?

6And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,

"AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM."

7And of the angels He says,

"WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS,
AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE."

8But of the Son He says,

"YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
9"YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS."

10And,
"YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
11THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;
AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
12AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;
LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED
BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,
AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END."

13But to which of the angels has He ever said,
"SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES
A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET"?

14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

Now THAT was worth posting twice!

Amen to the scriptures!

In Christ,

Mike

Lol. yes, very cool. Now, who was this?

Jdg 13:18 And the Angel of Jehovah said to him, Why do you ask this about My name? Yea, it is Wonderful. (Literal Translation)
Jdg 13:18 And the messenger of Jehovah saith to him, `Why is this--thou dost ask for My name? --and it is Wonderful.' (Young's Literal Translation)

We know the names of Gabriel, and, Michael, so, why is this angel not saying his name, but, says it is Wonderful, or, secret, or, hidden?

And this:

Gen 16:10 And the angel of Jehovah said unto her, I will greatly multiply thy seed, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
Gen 16:13 And she called the name of Jehovah that spake unto her, Thou art a God that seeth: for she said, Have I even here looked after him that seeth me?

How can an angel cause someone to have a lot of babies and become a multitude? Doesn't God do that?

This is not directed at anyone particularly..However if and when a believer feels a need to ask whether Jesus Christ is an angel then I would surmise that that persons faith is compromised and under fire. I would highly advise to anyone who has a thought that Jesus Christ is an angel or prophet; to go back to the Gospels starting with Matthew through to John and read and pray whilst reading.

Lol. I'll bite since my faith is coo.

Here's the thing..

The Bible says there were and are lots of sons of God. The Bible says that they were "born" of God. I would assume this to mean their spirits with the exception of Jesus who had a flesh body born by Mary who was made pregant by the HS.

The Bible says sons of God are angels.

The Bible says that Jesus was the only "begotten" son of God, which, would have to mean, he was the only one born in a flesh body, seeing that, the Bible says there were many other sons who were also born by God.

So, if God gives birth to something, isn't it perfect? And, if those spirits that he birthed were perfect, then, why couldn't he have put any of his sons into a flesh body that came from Him and a human (woman(like Mary)) to atone for sins, seeing that, the body would be perfect, and, the spirit would also be perfect, which, would fulfil the requirements for a perfect, sinless sacrifice for sins?

We're talking about literal sons of God. Anything birthed by Him would be perfect, and, exactly like him except they would be sons, and, lesser, obviously. Which would mean that the spirit of Christ was the first born son, seeing that, he inherits everything and it was obviously his spirit that was put into a body. My thinking is, he was the one chosen to be put into a body because he was the first born of God, as in, his spirit was born first.

And there it is. God birthed sons, and, seeing that God is perfect, the sons would be perfect also, but, they were lesser because they were sons, and, they all came from the Father.

Makes sense to me. What am I missing?

Christ's flesh was part of creation. His Spirit was not.

Researcher, just please take my advice. And if the OT is causing you to sway too far from the Gospel then stay put in the Gospel and NT. Sure there were sons of God, angels, prophets, messengers and even fallen angels...But at this point; just cling to the cross and patiently await our Redeemer.

1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Why? There are more answers in the OT to the NT. It's all one book. There are even parts of the NT that aren't inspired by Him. Besides, there is the Spirit. I'm not worried at all. It's a question. It seems to upset people as if asking questions will somehow make God angry. LOL. The New Testament writers didn't know everything, only, what was shown to them, and, how they saw things. Most of the NT is elementary anyway. Basic stuff on how to begin a walk with Him.

mal 3:

1Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.


In the former reference of messenger, John the baptist is meant, but not the 2nd reference..Jesus christ is meant..

messenger is angel..the hebrew word used is
mal'ak :

1) messenger, representative

a) messenger

angel

c) the theophanic angel

So it would be appropiate to use angel in mal 3 1 for both John and Christ..Of course, Jesus christ would be a uncreated angel..but nevertheless a angel, the angel of the Lord..

Let's stick a fork in it--this steak is done.

There are some good answers to the questions in this thread.

There are places where in the O.T. it is speculated that different appearances of a pre-incarnate Christ may have taken place. (The two verses you mentioned before? Yes, possibly.)

In the sense of being a messenger, yes, Christ could be CALLED an angel. However, unlike Michael, Gabriel, etc., his spirit was not created, but has been ever present from eternity past in the Godhead.

One thing that separates Jesus from all the other messengers in the Bible is that he accepted worship. All other places where someone fell at their feet to worship, they refused it. In the Gospels, people fell at Jesus' feet to "worship" as the scriptures indicate, and he did nothing to stop them.

Jesus knew/knows his status as God.

A mere "good" (sinless) man was/is not qualified to die for the sins of all mankind. Similarly, a mere good angel is not qualified to pay for the sins of all mankind. He could possibly be called upon to take the place of one man, but not all of us--that would take GOD himself.

Therein is why one goes to an ETERNAL destination of punishment for refusing God's provided sacrifice for sin. Only an ETERNAL punishment can adequately pay for the great offense against an INFINITE God. We're talking someone way, way beyond the status of an earthly president or king.

That is the amazing thing, that God himself lived among us, and we knew him not!

Thankfully, through his grace and mercy, being enlightened by his Holy Spirit, we do know him. And more importantly he knows us.

In Christ,

Mike

The Lord is never referred to as an angelic in scripture

If an angelic is defined .... it is not the Lord

Why is Jesus referred to as a star ie., morning star, day-star etc? Stars are symbolic for angels.

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things for the churches.
I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright, the morning star.

2Pe 1:19 And we have the word of prophecy made more sure; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a lamp shining in a dark place,
until the day dawn, and the day-star arise in your hearts:

Rev 1:20 the mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks.
The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks are seven churches.



Satan is described as a star also, as are the fallen angels

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven fallen unto the earth: and there was given to him the key of the pit of the abyss.

Rev 12:4 And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:

Christ and his Holy Angels (messengers) "The saints are His holy angels."
The devil and his angels (messengers) The Devil is a man and his messengers are men.

John 6
70 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?"


Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Satan is man who is not mindful of the things of God.

Matthew 16
23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."

Jude 1
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

Matthew 13
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

just now noticed it was posted twice. puter glitch yesterday.

but no harm done and I'm glad you appreciated it.

jp

Jesus was not a mere son of God,( the angels are created sons like all human beings are in our natural state and not born sons of God like human beings who have been born of the Spirit or born again) He was and is God. In fact, before Jesus was born He was called the Word, whom the Bible says was with God and was God. The Word who became Jesus, at His birth became a born Son of God by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is what makes Jesus and those who are born again brothers and sisters....Jesus is our elder Brother and it is Him we all will be like when we are glorified.

John 1:1 (ASV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (ASV)
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

The Word, who become Jesus is the creator of all things.

John 1:3 (ASV)
3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.

That scripture is not talking about Jesus but John the Baptist....John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus.

Matthew 3:1-3 (ASV)
1 And in those days cometh John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, saying,
2 Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3 For this is he that was spoken of through Isaiah the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make ye ready the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

I have addressed it, the first messenger is John, the second is Jesus..

At first glance I thought it was too.

Then I looked again lol.

This part is John the Baptist
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:

And this part is the Lord:
and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Bump

Jesus took more to the likeness of a man than that of an angel.

...a particular man that is.

That was funny B. This is more determining what he was Before he was became a man.

Thanks for your input!

Okay, before Christ became a man then.

So the question I have would God make an angel less than itself once it was an angel?

The idea that Christ before He was a man was an angel higher than a man then made lower than the angels. Would it make sense that Christ was once an angel?

The correct answer is waiting, in scripture. Christ was not called the Son of man for nothing, nor was an angel ever called as such.

Love HB.

Hey Bob. Here's the predicament.

It says Jesus was the only begotten son of God, when, it also says that there were many sons of God, and, many born of God. That would mean that Jesus was the only son of God born in the flesh right? And, sons of God are angels. So, it would seem to indicate, that, Jesus was an angel. Because, we know he existed before he became a man.

Lots of sons of God

Job 1:6 Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them.

Lots of spirits were born of God

Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

He had a body prepared for his spirit

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, But a body didst thou prepare for me;

He descended out of heaven (obviously his spirit)

Joh 3:13 And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.

He was made a little lower than angels

Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

When the Bible speaks of sons of God, it means angels. That's why I put this up here.

And, Jesus is also spoken of as being a star, which, is also symbolic for angels.

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

And Satan and his angels are also called stars

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Another point I made was, if something is born of God, it is perfect right? All that was required for a sacrifice for sins was a perfect person, ie. the Son. Perfect body, perfect spirit. So, if God birthed many spirits like it says, then, anyone of them would have done, but, Jesus was the first born, thus, he got the bill.

Humans birth humans, God births?

The verses you are quoting do not trump all of the other scriptures, and there are many that attest to Jesus' Godhood.

When we are in heaven, we will also be like Jesus--shining, holy, for we "shall see him as he is." The same holds for the created angels. They radiate because of Christ's glory as well.

What is it you're trying to say that you believe?

It seems like you don't really believe Jesus is GOD (didn't say "A" god) despite many scriptures stating otherwise. If that is the case, neither is he qualified to be your LORD, nor qualified to die for all mankind.

Since this is a crucial doctrine toward salvation, I hope I am presuming incorrectly. This isn't a truth that can be dismissed with a "we'll just have to agree to disagree," for eternity is at stake.

What say ye?

In Christ,

Mike

Mike, it's just a question, because I don't know. There are enough verses in the Bible to indicate that Jesus was an angel for one to ask the question, which, is why I ask, lol.

If God gives birth to something, then, it's a son, as the Bible puts it. What does God give birth to? God is perfect, thus, anything he gave birth to would be... perfect, right? Jesus was the son, not the Father. And, what are sons of God?

Ok, but I hope you understand that Jesus not just a messenger; He is God as well.

Fair enough.

We can acknowledge that Christ is not a created being in the sense of his Spirit and personhood.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

There are way more passages dealing with his deity than refer to him as the bearer of a message.

He has always been. He was even present here as a "burning lamp," along with God the Father (smoking oven):

Genesis 15:17
And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

The Father and Son cut covenant exclusive of Abraham to fulfill all that was promised to Abraham. This is another one of those "amazing" things.

You wrote, "God is perfect, thus, anything he gave birth to would be... perfect, right?"

Well--put it this way--God is able to give birth to anything that would be exactly what he desires it to be, and to do exactly as he desires for it to do, and all for his perfect pleasure.

Our spirits are perfectly birthed in Christ by God's Holy Spirit. As such, they are perfect. We still, however, have our very imperfect and sinful flesh attached. When we die, that part goes.

Lucifer was created. Adam was created. Both sinned and fell due to temptation of their own pride and lusts.

Do I understand everything of how it all works and fits together? No. If I did, that would put me on par with God, which is infinitely impossible.

Our finite minds speculating of how things work should not be taken so far, however, as to deny clear teachings of scripture--that's where we get into trouble.

May God's Holy Spirit quicken us with understanding and wisdom.

In Christ,

Mike