Psa 71:18 Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto [this] generation, [and] thy power to every one [that] is to come.

I want to start a faith (word based) thread and see what comes of it!

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:

Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Seems like God wants to make sure we get the message....

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

WOW!!! I just read this scripture for the first time today.

Do you mean word of faith? Or simply scripture? Pardon my elementary understanding!

Both...from a grey haired old man who knows that God is in the faith stretching business....

Thanks for coming in Julie.

I've been thinking about "Faith worketh by love."

Faith can move a mountain but how do you do it?

Love is at the core of everything we do by faith. It's a requirement or faith doesn't work at all. Love doesn't have to be right. It forgives the undeserving. They don't say l told ya so.

What do you say Faith worketh by love means? What kind of faith?

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. -- Galatians 5:6 (KJV)

"Therefore being justified by faith… (Rom. 5:1). Of course, our question asks about the kind of faith which justifies.

"…the demons also believe and tremble" (Jas. 2:19). Are demons saved?

Faith Hangs on the Law of Love

http://www.kcm.org/studycenter/articles/se..._first_base.php

"....In Galatians 5:6 we learn that "faith worketh by love." This explains why so many folks who claim to be faith people see so little in the way of miracles or breakthroughs.

Using your faith without operating in love simply won't work. It's as if you're sitting in your car, engine running with everything functioning properly. The oil pressure is good. The fuel tank is full of gas. Then you put your foot on the accelerator and the engine races but the car doesn't move.

You might say, "Something's not working here! What is wrong with my car? When I put my foot on this pedal, the car is supposed to move!"

So you call your mechanic. He comes over and says, "Let's see what the problem is here. Put it in gear and press on the gas."

"Put it in what?"

"Put it in gear! You know. Pull the lever down to the letter D there, which stands for Drive."

I've used an absurd example here to make an important point. You can have part of the law working, but not the rest of it. You have power available—and you have gears turning. Those gears are ready, but they have to be engaged or you're not going to get any power to the rear wheels, which means the vehicle won't move.

In the same way, faith is present in your spirit. It came in the moment you were born again. And Romans 10:17 tells us, "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." However, you can be standing on a promise of God from His Word, but without love, your faith is not engaged. Faith works by love. That's why unforgiveness causes faith to seem feeble and ineffective.

Now we can understand why Jesus said all of the law and the prophets hang upon a single, two-part commandment—to love God with everything you've got and love your neighbor while you're at it.

Faith is hanging on that love commandment because faith is released and functions under the law of faith (Romans 3:27). The law of faith hangs, or is totally dependent, on the law of love.

Yes, faith works...but not without love......"

How does that apply, when you have to have faith for something you believe in for yourself, say healing? Do you think faith for your own miracle depends on loving yourself?

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6

I have a general question that popped into my head the other night....
Jesus said that if we had enough FAITH we could say to that mountain "cast yourself into the sea" and it would cast itself into the sea.

That is quite a bit of power. And that is just a mustard seed worth of faith (which is one of nature's smallest seeds). I must not have very much faith because I can not, can you? My faith is smaller than a mustard seed.....that is so pathetic.....

Secondly, when we get to heaven and faith becomes sight, or knowedge, will we still have access to that type of power? I kind of hoped that we would get better at spiritual powers even then. Scripture always says "faith" is the door to heaven and "faith" in the Lord Jesus will save you....what about when faith becomes sight and is not faith? Granted we won't leed the door anymore and we will be where we needed to be because of faith, but will there still BE faith in heaven?

leia

Content snipped just to be concise. I started this thread as a direct result of having read a comment by you (Miki) over in the Prophecy forum. I have known this principal for a long time, and I feel one who is diligent in the word would have to conceptualize this abstractly...

I am unable to reply in fulness to the line of enquiry, as it seems to be another cart before the horse issue. I do read throughout scripture on the operation of faith. Faith is centered in God. (Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. ) God is love. (1 John 4:8) Faith and love are therefore intrinsic in nature. You can't have one without the other. I think if you have faith you have love and if you have love you also have faith. But faith is meaningless unless it is given action. "Put feet to your faith." (prove your faith as an outworking of your belief)

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

So here we see it is possible to have "dead faith."

1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

This scripture combined with the previous seems to speak to me that as we walk as He walked (Jesus was the epitomy of the faith walk) we would by the very act be in love and abiding in Him as an outflow of that action.

Sorry, I am not sure this makes sense. Some things you gotta just enter. Like driving a car by remote contol rather than getting in and seeing the road whizz by.

Sounds like a real journey to walk in faith and to be justified by faith. I know God expects it and will respond only to faith. If he responded to need, no need would be left unfilled.

Maybe I am just being basic, but I thought faith WAS love of Jesus and works WERE love of Jesus....I didn't know you could have one without the other. I mean if it is really real in you, I thought Jesus revealed in you means faith and love. Three in one sort of thing all in the dame definition.

leia

Scripturally, as I have posted the word earlier on Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Obviously God (Jesus) is the ultimate end of faith. (Heb 12:2)

It is He who is able to out of nothing bring into being that which is the dream and desire of your heart. Faith is the substance and evidence...so we can confess this...

1Jo 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 1Jo 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

It has to do with spiritual maturity. Do you see how we may think more highly of ourselves than we ought? Do you see how easily rankled we become when contested? Even the apostles of the Lamb were like this...James and John (the very apostle that Jesus loved) said this...

Luk 9:52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. Luk 9:53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save [them]. And they went to another village.

You would have to have great discipleship maturity to raise the dead and to do many works. We would not give a shotgun to a five year old. Neither will God...Can I tell you he won't give me the gun either? As an example, who is to say which man died and is meant to be raised again? There is contradiction to God's will for men in raising them, unless He has defined a reason for it like Lazarus...that God would be glorified. If we were going about doing this thing indiscriminately, God's will would be thwarted as He said, Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

"Secondly, when we get to heaven and faith becomes sight, or knowedge, will we still have access to that type of power?"

I believe the word makes it clear that we are being brought forward to a place where we will be entirely sons of God and joint heirs with Christ. We will be as gods at that time. I would say we should easily move a mountain with a mustard seed faith by then.

Thanks. I alway imagined Jesus shaking His head when He said "oh, ye of little faith...." like it was something we just could get through our heads. I kind of thought is was a failing...it might be trying to stay a tiny christian, and I know we are supposed to grow, but I don't want that kind of power. I LIKE being a sheep. I don't mean I don't want to work, I work for everyone, including Him from before the sun to way after, but that stuff scares me. Tongues scare me. Dream people scare me. Such a sheep....sad


as to "secondly"....well OK, but I'm gonna start with the little stuff...stuff that is just in my own little surroundings. Man, I'm still trying to get my head around women preaching.....don't laugh. Stuff takes me awhile.

leia

Leia,

I see Jesus the same way....shaking His head in disappoinment. If only we could all understand the importance of LIVING BY FAITH!

One of the best verses in the Bible.......



But now it goes on to say:



I gotta digest that one for a bit!! WOW! The scriptures are so powerful, I'm saddened by all who do not read and know just how POWERFUL THE SCRIPTURES ARE!!!!!!

Thank you for this thread Larry!

Tongues scare me. Dream people scare me. Such a sheep....sad

Why? It is of God.

Who....If you don't love (in my opinion) you won't step out in faith. When l gave my first word l knew l had to be ready to die because that was surely what was happening inside of me. My life was over...Are you honored for speaking? What crowd do you run with?

No...Love has to be the only motive for speaking.

Everybody l know of, has been through the fires of hell...or the refiners fire...(however you want to look at it) ...before they were called to speak on behalf of the Lord.

And the ovens just getting stoked up!
I can't imagine anybody doing this for glory...only Love. (well maybe the leeches)

Who says:

"Sorry, I am not sure this makes sense. Some things you gotta just enter".
Like l said...Love is the motivating factor...God lays a scenario before us. With all you know you have to act...(faith)...your choice.

I'm also a firm believer of the fact that God won't reveal if you don't love. If l didn't love my Pastor and cry over his ministry God wouldn't speak...

When people knife him in the back and wave his mistakes in his face. When his mistakes have greatly effected my life l had (have) a choice....

Change me Lord...Change me....because then you can really use me.

Ok Miki...then "shake out your shoes..." and walk in love...How great a gift To walk in forgiveness...even when they haven't repented...This is the miracle of love and long suffering.

This is how faith works! To walk in love. The most humbling awful and great part is when you choose to do it from your heart and not your head. People say...but l just can't forgive them... and ...they haven't repented...

Oh people!...This is the secret! Be like Him.

Love means a lot of things...Find out what it means...Sometimes Love means not speaking AT ALL! But God shows you when you are willing to lay down your life.

Husbands and wives that have been together for a long time don't always have to say sorry....Do you make your mate grovel? Or do you know their heart and let it go? Speaking apologies is a good exercise in humility but every situation that involves forgiveness is a door for the enemy to enter. Forgiveness is the door closing behind you. He can't come in...

(expect to suffer for this)

Powerful word Miki IN CHRIST...let us all listen, in the stillness shut the mind and enter into the HOLY SPIRIT.
But I disagree that you said he won't reveal to those whom Don't have Faith through his love...OUR LOVE IS NOT PERFECT that is why it is judgmental...but if God's love is unconditional and we receive in unconditionally...in surrender to HIM he will reveal it to us and we are able to release it easily..not hold onto it.
I am learning this as well..sometimes hurt from others makes us hold that love in.
DO NOT CAST YOUR PEARLS BEFORE SWINE. and God protects us from this.

I beleive he reveals differently to each individual...MILK OR MEAT...for he does not reveal things that one can't handle if they aren't muture enough to receive.
But in some things he reveals and the person is NOT willing to receive.
Or not WILLING TO GIVE WHAT THEY RECEIVE. which then becomes just power for the RECEIVER.

I mean He won't speak to you about somebody elses life (you give them a word) if you aren't walking in Love towards that person.

There is a thin line between love and hate.
We guard ourselves too often...afraid of releasing love when because of releasing it...we only get hurt in return.
Look at CHRIST OR DEAR SAVIOR...whom loved us so much and was rejected...because those of us ALL whom rejected him, couldn't love the way he loved.
He teaches us to LOVE ourselves...and he loved us first...when we love others we also love ourselves.
I agree with you MIKI.

Faith is believing in the Power Of God .

Abraham believed that God could provide a baby in old age .
Cornelius believed that Jesus had the power to raise his servant .


We know that God can shake his fist at a mountain and it WILL crumble . We know that . If Faith and the Will of God line up , it can happen . Actually it does happen .

At 9/11 there was a fireman on the 83rd floor when the building collapsed who walked out unscathed .

Faith is always moving mountains .

Wernotalone says:

"There is a thin line between love and hate".

I see a wide chasm...

That's the secret...we expect to get hurt in return and we say yes anyway...

_______________________________________________________

Simple... Abraham loved God first. Because of this love he was obedient. His choices were questioned by family and friends but his love for God out weighed everything. Because of that love he stepped out in faith. His faith proved his love and God rewarded him. He's a reward-er of those who diligently seek him.
I'm talking about the very begining when he heard God and began his journey to someplace he didn't know.

Tears MIKI, but tears of joy







and everything inbetween

Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. Rom 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by [them that are] no people, [and] by a foolish nation I will anger you. Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. Rom 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.



Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Fulfilment?

"I was found of them that sought me not"

I will pour my Spirit out on all flesh...

Ok, ok, ok.....this issue of faith has been on my mind quite a bit for a while now. I'm loving this thread!!

But here's a question for all of you...
... whats the difference between faith and presumption? Taken for granted, of course, that all we ask we do so that he may be glorified and his will be done?

I've thought about this and always come out feeling !

i find that most of the time, presumption and faith are interchangable, or at least used that way.

There is an exception in the legal field: there, when one fact is in evidence, it is accepted by a long history of that particular fact coming to evidence that another is accepted. So that, if one thing exists, you do not have to prove another, it is accepted as in existance. It is a way for getting around have to prove things so that a case can proceed. That is not faith, in that no one may actually BELIEVE the second fact just because the first occured, but it is established that such will be the case to move things along. That is presumption. Faith is a heart condition, presumption is a legal issue or an issue of reason.

leia

Let us go even further...what is the difference between faith, foolishness or presumption?

You just gotta put your foot out there and test the waters. Say l think...as you learn to discern...mostly l'm still thinking...sometimes l know. While you are thinking God will be pleased by your faith.

Sometimes Christians make the mistake of thinking that God will keep shoveling it on everyday but he's never done that with me. Once you start understanding the way he speaks to you it will be a joy...but then he takes you a step further

The honeymoon is over...

Just kidding...It's still a joy...just a sober one.

Boy do I understand!!!!!

My brothers were a handful for a teenage girl with no mother! And my dad gave me all kids of responsibilities. Not them...me. And I was the one geting A's and doing the shopping and housework way younger than a girl should have to. Why give me MORE!!!

"Because you have proven you can, and they haven't, and it needs done".

Mind boggeling. The better you do, the more you get to do. Oh joy "just kidding.....It's still a joy.....just a sober one".

AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!


OK Bo boy, this is getting nit picky so I'm just gonna tread water.

faith: something I want to do and somewhere I want to go
presumption: something I have to do to keep moving on to a conclusion
foolishness: something nanny told me would bring trouble but is way too tempting

leia

Yeah!!! I get this. I have (and still do ) asked for discernment and many times have heard or felt him speaking to me and I KNOW its him and what he's telling me. Such a Joy!........ but




Miki- will you explain what you meant here?

Sometimes I feel as though he's speaking but I'm not so sure. Is this really what he wants? How can I be sure?

At times I just undoubtedly know... "this is the way, walk in it." O.K. I'm fine with that....

But sometimes the clarification is not so clear. Is this because the honeymoon's over... ... from your experience?

faith...believing the unbelievable

foolishness...unreasonable expectations (praying your car will start in -40 without being plugged in)

presumption...praying you don't get caught stealing...

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].

Luk 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them [to this end], that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;

We are called to an inheritance.....heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ (Rom 8:17)

We are told we can have what we say but we say what we have...we need to let go of that negative agreement with the negative spirit and trust this word to put us over...

God does not pay up every Saturday night...I heard it this way once...If we live in the sunshine every day we will become a parched desert...so in the natural world, so in the spiritual. Into every life a little rain must fall.

Lov4all says:

Miki- will you explain what you meant here?

Sometimes I feel as though he's speaking but I'm not so sure. Is this really what he wants? How can I be sure?

At times I just undoubtedly know... "this is the way, walk in it." O.K. I'm fine with that....

But sometimes the clarification is not so clear. Is this because the honeymoon's over... ... from your experience?

Here's what l do. If l think he's speaking but l'm not sure then l weave the message into the conversation. No need to draw attention to the fact that l heard something from the Lord...Especially if l didn't. If l get a bite then l elaborate a bit more. Still being cautious about telling how l received this. Helping someone in their difficulties is more important then trying to prove you heard from the Lord...

When you become more confident that you are hearing him he will have you do a more direct method of approach. But be ready for what comes (the honeymoons over) and don't push it.

You're just the errand boy. It's not up to you to defend the message..only deliver.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm guessing that:
"Faith Confessions" is another way to say "Name it and Claim it."

If I'm to Name it and Claim it (NIACI), then, I'll need Perfect Faith WITHOUT ANY DOUBTS, and Perfect knowledge (so that I'll know what God knows: everything).

Plus, I'll need Perfect Wisdom (like God's Wisdom), so that I'll ask for the Right Things.

Plus, I'll need sinless Motivation (Perfect agape love).

************

Of course, God could (if He wanted to) take control of my mouth and force me to say ALL the Perfect things in a Perfect prayer, and then , let me re-vert back to my normal im-perfect self.

So far, that has happened yet.

dennis manning

Dennis...

This thread is just for edification not to twist scripture into an opinion...

But since your hung up on it...
Faith worketh by love!

You just have to meditate on this...It's sooo good!

Love is good and kind and above all it forgives...Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

Got a board?

I know some of you don't like this take, but l can only say it has been proven in my life over and over again through trial and error. The trial being the offense the error being my unwillingness to let it go...It gets down right personal at times but the reward of obedience in forgiveness is unmistakable.
Try it ..you'll like the taste of it's fruit!

In fact it's breakthrough fruit...

I had a vision the other morning and it was just like this only the clouds where made of flesh.....

"I'm guessing that:"Faith Confessions" is another way to say "Name it and Claim it."

Or perhaps "use it or lose it." The secret is that God uses words to create and destroy...and in His image, so do we...that is why it says in scripture...Pro 18:20 A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; [and] with the increase of his lips shall he be filled. Pro 18:21 Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

Just wondering why so few believe the bible in this area?

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Question...seeing how it is with our individual interpretation skills...

This verse says "the faith of Jesus. Is that the same as faith in Jesus?

In other words do we have to have the faith Jesus had, or faith in who He said He is?

I find it easier to believe the latter than to reach to the former...Jesus was a faith giant as it should be rightly supposed...when did we stand up in a boat and simply say, "Peace be still?" and it was so?

Come on dennis!!! Name it or claim it

Pardon me if I am repeating something already said....I didn't read every word of this thread.

When Jesus said, "if you have the faith of a mustard seed... you can say to this mountain"...

Am I correct when I say that you must be praying the will of God??

Part of becoming a great prayer warrior and intercessor is dying daily. Not our will but God's will. When we step into a certain level of maturity and put on our priestly garments, we must first stop at the furniture in the outer court. We must be cleansed. We must sacrifice ourselves and our flesh for Holy God. We must get to a place when what God wants is all that matters...

So, when we pray "move the mountain" and have gone through the different stopping points, we know that we are praying God's perfect will. We also know that God's Word will NOT return void. You can pray the Word and KNOW it will come to pass. Name it claim it is based on faith in a big God. Knowing that He is MORE than enough (remember the leftovers after feeding 5,000).

In the Most Holy Place, intercessors can start praising God for the answer to their prayer! They can pray and KNOW God hears them. They have seen the answer in the spirit relm before it ever comes to pass in the physical.

I hope that I can get to this level of maturity.

Brokennes is what I long for.
Rightousness is what I long for.
Holiness is what I long for.
His face is what I seek.
His will is what I want to want.

Holy Spirit, search my heart and rid me of all unrightousness and selfishness.

Right on Bo Jangles.

"When we step into a certain level of maturity and put on our priestly garments, we must first stop at the furniture in the outer court. We must be cleansed. We must sacrifice ourselves and our flesh for Holy God. We must get to a place when what God wants is all that matters..."


Rattling this around...shooting from the hip here...

I would say that all the above is great, but Jesus accepts simple childlike faith. He knows what we need before we ask. I know the best thing is that if your "wish list" happens to match God's wish list...presto chango you are there...it will happen so fast your head will spin...

Yes, you are right.

When my children ask for something... I would be brokenhearted if they came up to me cowardly and begged for dinner, a new special toy, or a little hug.

I know Abba is the same way. He takes great joy in providing for us.

I heard a converstion story a few months ago. This drug addict, woman chasing, rocker dude ran from God for YEARS. Finally, on a bus, he prayed the sinners prayer and got saved. His joy was undescribable.

He got off the bus for a bathroom break. He was broke, and said, boy Lord, I would sure love a 7-Up. He couldn't afford one. Merrily, be boarded the bus to continue to his destination. When he went back to his seat, he saw a paper bag. You know what was in it!!! A 7-UP!!!!

Mustard seed indeed.

Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

This verse is taking on new meaning to me tonight...

One of the "fruits of the Spirit" is faith. Galatians 5;22
Amplified Bible

But the fruit of the Holy Spirit (of Christ), [the work which His presence within accomplishes]----is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness, (benevolence), faithfulness, (meekness, humility) gentleness, self-control (self-restraint, continence).

So, when the Spirit enters me, He accomplishes a work within me, including the production of faithfulness.

Yet, God/Jesus admonished us to have faith--to believe the Gospel.
So, we must decide to believe. PLUS, the Spirit produces faith within us.
Faith coming and going.
Man-made faith , PLUS God-made faith. Side by side. Cheek by jowl.
Faith in the city, and faith in the wilderness.
Faith in the feast and faith in the famine.
Faith in the Holy of Holies in the Temple, and faith in Ceasar's Lion den.

How do Christians face the lions, crucifixions, burned-at-the-stake? It was super-natural faith! I don't think that it was man-made-faith alone!

If I choose to believe, PLUS, God is producing faith within me, then I'll be a faithful person!

Jesus walked by sight.
We walk by faith.

Jesus had no need for faith. He spoke as one with authority.
We can't do a single Good thing without faith; We can't please God without faith.


dennis manning

There is a difference between faith and faithfulness...

Faith is a power gift ( 1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; )

Biblical faithfulness is a fruit of the spirit...

faithfulness is defined as

Adhering firmly and devotedly, as to a person, cause, or idea; loyal.
Having or full of faith. Worthy of trust or belief; reliable. Consistent with truth or actuality: a faithful reproduction of the portrait.

"Jesus had no need for faith. He spoke as one with authority."


Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Jesus said, "have faith in God" (Mark 11:22) so He is the author and finisher of our faith...(Heb 12:2) He would not tell us to have faith in God unless He also had faith in God...

Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.
Psa 40:9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest. Psa 40:10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.

He had faith alright...to leave heaven and come here...


Jesus had much faith...

I don't usually think multidimensionally. I am told and I do what is right. I hear the Lord and I speak to Him and "we be mates" for my Aussie friends.

But last night was sleepless and I am well rested after an hours sleep, awake by 10:pm and up by 2:am after fours hours of laying and searching for direction. I know He wants something.

And this morning he is stretching this hard set mind to be multidemensional. A $100 word.

Faith. Faith in Jesus and His power and His grace and His mercy and His authority, His kingship and His return. Single dimension. That is the stuff we have and that jesus does not have to have. That is the stuff Satan has. In us, at our level, it is faith. They are above that faith. They have sight there. Even Satan knows and needs no faith in those things. He knows, and where there is knowledge there is not need for faith.

But I am learning this early morning that there is a faith in the JUSTNESS of what is taken by us as faith (the second dimension because it is our second type of faith) that even the heavens have a part in or do not. The heavens were harvested when Satan was cast out for their lack of faith in tht justness. Jesus showed Himself faithful on earth and in His unselfish and complete authority under His Father because he understood the "Justness" of the Father's authority.

Maybe you can call it a subtopic, maybe you can call it "levels"....I dont know. But I am learning that faith is more than faith heaven exists and awaits. We have that in faith but the heavens do not. To them that is a physical reality. Heavens are there and they were in them and Jesus is on the throne they have seen Him.

But the faith that it is RIGHT. and having that faith in purity we have authority.

That is why Jesus had so much authority...He had the ability to have that much faith in the correctness of the whole thing. We have Satan in the innermost parts and can not seem to reach there. When Satan is gone, and we are in a safe place from him, and we have authority, won't it be nice to have that authority over what He has given to us to have authority over.

Frankly, not to be a goody-two-shoes over this, but I think you are both right but arguing over different types of "faith".

leia

I've never seen the Pearly Gates.
Jesus has seen them Gates; He made the Gates.

I can know that there are Pearly Gates , way out there, somewhere, in the 3rd Heaven. Where-ever that is. But, I only know it BY FAITH. I've never seen the Gates. I'm trusting Jesus; Jesus said "There *are* some Pearly Gates". I have a Glorious Hope that Jesus didn't lie to me about them Gates.

Jesus needs no Hope, and no Faith. He walks by sight.
I (just a lowly sinner saved by Grace) must walk by Faith.

I've not seen them there Gates! (Or maybe, I've seen them Gates with the eyes of Faith).

*************
Likewise, I have a Glorious Hope that the WHOLE BIBLE is true. I've never seen Jerusalem. but I believe that it's there. To my East. About 4000 miles?

Jesus said, "The Spirit of God indwells every believer."
I've never seen the Spirit. I've seen some evidence of His Trail, His Way, His Blessings.
I can only believe that the Spirit exists. I can't see Him.

Jesus is the Spirit!


Jesus said, "Believe the Gospel, and you'll have Everlasting Life."
Did He lie to me? I believe that He's a Truthful Person. But, all my old Christian friends have gone to the cemetery. I've never seen a single person or god with Everlasting Life.
All that I can do is believe God.
God does not need to believe. He walks by sight. He KNOWS that I have Everlasting Life.

dennis manning