The elect spoken in Matthew 24;31 has been Identified as Jews who were in hiding in the wilderness and around the globe.These elect are not the Bride who were raptured prior to Daniels 70th week.

...............................................benny

Those in Judea as the Lord states and those residing in other nations at the time as Revelation 12 tells

Benny...You are saying "were" on both accounts..so the elect are where now? And the bride also..gone?

I'm not being facetious in my questioning.

Also are the elect in Matt 24:31 the same as those in Rev 7:4?

Dear Selah,
When I say "were"
I am referring to that time period.
But at this very moment,...there are two elects.The Bride and the jews.
During Daniels 70th week There are two elects on earth and another in heaven who are the bride.
The two on earth during Daniels 70th week are the Jews and the trib saints.
Selah, here is the tricky part(if you will)....We, which means you and I,Are under grace and sealed by the promise.
The Holy Spirit is the comfortor who was sent on the earth, with a special task.
But remember two things.The Holy Spirit is omnipresent like He was from before the time of Adam up until the cross so to speak if you will.
The Lord Jesus said that He must go or the Comfortor cannot come.But yet, remember the Holy Spirit is omnipresent.
The very thing at this moment that is restraining the anti-christ is the Bride who is sealed with the promise.The church age began on the day of penticost and it will end when we are caught up to meet the Lord in the air.Once we are taken out of the way, then and only then can the anti-christ step onto the world scene to do his thing.Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.The devils tremble at the name of Jesus.
But after the rapture, it's a whole new ball game.The last week of Daniels begins with the confirming of a 7 year covenant between Israel and the anti-christ.Selah,This revealing of the son of perdition is a prophecy that is meant for nation Israel.You see,...when the 7 year covenant has been confirmed, national Israel will believe that this man is thier long awaited messiah!
Remember!,..."Jesus said, “I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him."
The Lord Jesus was referring to the anti-christ.....In order for the Sanhedrin in Israel today to believe that the anti-christ is thier Messiah.....He would have to be a jew. The Jews will not realize their mistake until the "Abomination of Desolation" comes to pass.
Again remember who you are in Christ Jesus.Jesus said to doubting Thomas,....Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.
Selah, don't you know that all power and authority has been given to you?
What ever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.Jesus said that if you had the faith of a mustard seed you could say to a moutain be thou removed and it shall come to pass.
What I am getting at here is that if the Bride were on this earth during Daniels 70th week and the bride had just wittnessed with their own eyes the confirming of a 7 year covenant....Selah, there would be millions of super Billy Grahams cut loose on this earth and there would be no stopping us! The devil is no match for us!
Jesus said that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the church.
And this is a true statement!
But again it's a whole new ballgame for those who were left behind at the rapture.
Selah,in those days, it will be the same situation as it was for the O.T. Saints.
Without faith it is impossible to please God.If you did one sin,..you did them all.But there will be a multitude that no man could number who will come to Christ Jesus and will become martyred saints!The Lord said Blessed are those who die for their faith in the Lord.But there will be some trib saints that will be aloud to enter the millenium.This is where the Sheep and the Goat judgement comes in.These trib saints managed to escape the clutches of the anti-christ and put their lives on the line by feeding, sheltering and hiding jews.Cursed is him that curses thee,and Blessed is he that blesses thee.
Selah, about the elect....Some post tribbers claim that when the Lord descends on the earth at the end of the tribulation,...that the alive and the dead will receive immortal bodies.They will quote Matthew 24;31 and say;...The angels will gather us up tp meet the Lord in the air.
Think about the following;...The Lord Jesus said;that we neither marry nor are we given in marriage in heaven and we will be like the angels!... ..ANGELS can travel at the speed of thought, fly here, fly there.What I am pointing out is we, the Bride, when we receive our immortal bodies will not need angels to catch us up to meet the Lord in the air!Only the Elect like Jews and trib saints who are still in their natural bodies will need angels to transport them.The majority of the Jews that will be transported will be about a third of Israel, who had all been in hiding.
Why anoint 144,000 jews to spread the gospel of Jesus christ during the first half of the trib if the Bride were still on the earth at that time?

.................................................benny

Hogwash Benny!

11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel

and strangers to the covenants of promise,

having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one

and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. Eph 2:11-22.

The same book of Ephesians goes on the ESTABLISH the doctrine of the bride of Christ. Nowhere else in the entire Bible is this doctrine of the bride of Christ taught.

"22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

A Jew that is born again is still Jew, and even more so!

The Church and Isael are not two, entirely seperate groups, Benny.

The church is the new phenomenon of born again Jews and born again Gentiles being united inside of the one Jew- Jesus the Messiah.

This means that the church consists of Gentiles grafted in along side the faithful remnant of Isreal as recipients of the the promises to Abraham, by faith in Jesus the Jew.

Jews do not stop being Jewish and Gentiles do not become spiritually or physically Jewish when either of them come to faith in Jesus.

Pay attention tho this all Pre-tribbers:

That is the fundamental problem with the pre-trib rapture. It divides the Jews and Gentiles all over again. Jesus died to unite Jews and Gentiles!

11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel

and strangers to the covenants of promise,

having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one

and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. Eph 2:11-22.

The Lord divides national Israel throughout the entire Bible without a doubt

The Body of Christ unites only in matters of salvation .... not national standing

And very few Israelites have joined .... national Israel is still in unbelief for the most part, but this is going to change at the time of the end of this present age according to the prophetic scriptures

You lack comprehensive knowledge of the O.T. prophets and their future projections of "their" nation's future inclusions

Their visions of the yet unfulfilled portion of the time of the end have nothing to do with the Body of Christ of today's Church, and all are focused upon their nation at the time of the end

Better spend some time with the prophets of Israel of you want to discover the truth

If you refrain from this accomplishment .... you really cannot discuss end time exegesis with any degree of competence

You are just ranting

I am not going to post all of the scriptural details included in the visions of the prophets of Israel and their focus of the nation's inclusion in end time events

You already have this information in your O.T.

Re-visit these things on this subject and then we may have something to discuss

But not before ... it would be a waste of your time and mine

If you do, and then want to discuss in a civil manner, I will consider what you bring

But only one piece at a time because of the complexity of the issues

Sure, Stephen.
Here is a small bit of verses to analyze. What is wrong with my synopsis below so far? This is a reasonable sampling from the OT and the NT.

The Tribulation

12:1 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time.

(Mat 24:21-22 21 For then there will be great trouble, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.)

But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. Dan 12:1-3.

These scriptures prove that the tribulation spoken of in Daniel 12:1-3 is the same one that Jesus refered to in Mat 24:21-22.

Exactly the same

What I detect is your reluctance to understand that chapter 9 and 12 are about Daniel's "people", national Israel and the covenant of the 70 weeks of years decreed for the nation of which the 70th is still future. The Lord's discourse in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 follows the exact same unbroken theme and is addressed to national Israel ... not the Church

Also, the vision in 12:1-3 is compressed and covers more time lapse than just the 70th week. This structure of prophetic vision is very commom among all of the prophets and the reason is because the inspiration is coming from the Lord, and He looks at particulars over a vast time lapse without filling in all of the details of events that occur within the scope of time passing.

And what you fail to understand Stephen is that the OT is a foreshadow, first the natural then the spiritual.

Benny this thread is

Lets use Mark instead of matthew,,,, its a key word the was not carryed over in the book of Matthew,,,but it is in Mark.....

Matthew 24:31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven

Do you see what your missing?????????? The word is "EARTH"

The elect will be gathered from the uttermost part of earth as well as heaven.......DO you know what that means??????

Well if you dont,,,, it means there are elects everywhere.....Not to mention you keep lumping Israel and the Jews together,,,,dont you uinderstand that 10 lost tribes of Israel are scattered abroad.........

And Eli brung up a good point

(Mat 24:21-22 21 For then there will be great trouble, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.)


NO human!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That includes you Stephen and the rest of the fly boys........

O you that would teach those to fly to save there souls........................