Scriptural PROOF That The Rapture Will Happen FIRST!


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Rapture in: 1 Thess 4, 1 Cor 15:

[1 Thessalonians 4:15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[1 Thessalonians 4:16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[1 Thessalonians 4:17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [caught up=HARPAZO=Rapture]
[1 Thessalonians 4:18] Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thess 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thess 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
1 Thess 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


[1Cor 15:51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[1Cor 15:52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[1Cor 15:53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[1Cor 15:54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[1Cor 15:55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The Seven Churches; One is promised an Escape through the "open door" from the Great Tribulation

To Thyatira:
[Rev 2:22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

To Philadelphia:
[Rev 3:8] I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

[Rev 3:10] Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.

To Laodiceans:
[Rev 3:16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. [into tribulation as in Rev. 2:22]

[Revelation 4:1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

[Rev 8:13] And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth [those not raptured?] by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Feast of Trumpets (Open Door)

The Open Door and Last Trump are on the Feast of Trumpets, which is a shadow/prophesy of the Rapture.

[Ezek 46:1] "Thus says the Lord GOD: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working
days; but on the sabbath day it shall be opened and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

[Pss 81:3] Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day. KJV

[Col 2:16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday [festival], or of the new moon,
or of the sabbath days:
[Col 2:17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

[Isa 26:2] Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in.

[Pss 118:19] Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD:
[Pss 118:20] This gate of the LORD, into which the righteous shall enter.

[John 10:7] Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
[John 10:9] I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

The Feast of Trumpets, on the new moon, is when the moon is turned to darkness. It is also "on a day or hour that no man knows" --which is an expression referring to this feast (and to a Jewish Wedding)-- because the new moon happens 29.5 days after the previous one, creating uncertainty of whether it will fall on the 29th or 30th day after the previous new moon, which is the first day of the month, thus the festival is traditionally celebrated for two days just to be sure.

[Lev 23:24] Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye
have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

[Num 29:1] And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall
do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.

Just as the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled all the spring feasts, and on each day of each feast, so too, will the fall feasts be fulfilled when Christ comes the second time, and in order, and on each day of each feast. The Feast of Trumpets points to the rapture, the Day of Atonement points to Satan's defeat, Tabernacles points to establishing the 1000 year kingdom. Trumpets is on the first, and Atonement is on the tenth. Excluding the days of the Festivals themselves, there are "seven days of Awe" or tribulation between them...including, 10.

[Rev 2:10] Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

2 Thess 2: the Falling Away

The timing and order of these prophetic events: Rapture, Revealing the AntiChrist, Signing of 7 year treaty starting the 7 year tribulation or Day of the Lord:

[2 Thessalonians 2:1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, [rapture]
[2 Thessalonians 2:2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

[The day of Lord Jesus Christ (click to see verses below) is tribulation, otherwise there would be no reason to be shaken and troubled. See 1 Thess 4:18 above; the rapture is comforting, not troubling]

[2 Thessalonians 2:3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [tribulation] shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
[2 Thessalonians 2:4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
[2Thess 2:5] Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this?
[2Thess 2:6] And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
[2Thess 2:7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. [the Church at the rapture]
[2Thess 2:8] And then shall that Wicked [the antichrist] be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

In other words,

1. I beg you by our rapture hope,
2. That you don't worry if you hear (you have missed it) and that the tribulation is at hand.
3. Don't be fooled by people (who say the rapture/resurection is already past)
[2Tim 2:18] Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
The tribulation doesn't start, until you are raptured first, which allows the man of sin (antichrist) to be revealed.
4. Who will, (3.5 years later according to Dan 9:27) sit in the temple as God, as the abomination of desolation
5. Remember I told you this?
6. Now you know that it is your presence that withholds the man of sin, so that he will be revealed in due time.
7. For the antichrist is working now only a little, because we restrain him as we are here and pray, until the rapture, when we will be taken out of the way.
8. And then the antichrist will be revealed, whom the Lord will destroy at the second coming.

[2Thess 3:3] But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.


[Luke 21:36] Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


continued.......................benny

Jewish Wedding (a theme of the Feast of Trumpets)
Bridal Chamber = Heaven

[John 14:2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[John 14:3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

In Italics above is an expression, used by the groom in a Jewish Wedding. He speaks this to the bride and then leaves to build an addition onto his father's house before returning for his bride. He returns for his bride in the middle of the night, as a thief, at an hour she might not think, with a loud cry, saying "Behold! The Bridegroom Comes!" Entering the "bridal chamber/heavenly mansion" is the start of the bridal week, and is shown in Isaiah, showing the pre tribulation rapture with the resurrection preceeding it:

[Isa 26:19] Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
[Isa 26:20] Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
[Isa 26:21] For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Being "hid in the Lord's house, or heaven during tribulation" is also seen in Psalm 27, which is read daily in the 30 days prior to the Feast of Trumpets.

[Pss 27:4] One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the
LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple.
[Pss 27:5] For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me;
he shall set me up upon a rock.
[Pss 27:6] And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.
The Church is the Bride of Christ.

[Eph 5:25] Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
[Eph 5:31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
[Eph 5:32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

[2Cor 11:2] For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

The Rapture is likened to a wedding, and from the Bible, we know a wedding lasts a week, we know the rapture will be pre tribulation.
The scriptures define a marriage as being a week long event. (Bridal week) = (Tribulation week)
Regardless of when the feast is in these verses (not at the end), the time of intimacy (the bride being with the bridegroom sealed away in the bridal chamber) begins at the start of the bridal week, and this is what we look forward to in the pre tribulation rapture. And if you read these accounts, you will see that deception in the stories probably would not have happened if the feast were held at the end of the week, as is depcited in Rev. 19.

Judges 14:1-18 ...And Samson made a feast there, as was customary for bridegrooms. ...If you can give me the answer within the seven days of the feast... She cried the whole seven days of the feast.

Genesis 29:22-28 So Laban brought together all the people of the place and gave a feast. ... Finish this daughter's bridal week


[Mat 25:1] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
[Mat 25:2] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
[Mat 25:3] They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
[Mat 25:4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
[Mat 25:5] While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
[Mat 25:6] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
[Mat 25:7] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
[Mat 25:8] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
[Mat 25:9] But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
[Mat 25:10] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
[Mat 25:11] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
[Mat 25:12] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
[Mat 25:13] Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
At the end of the tribulation, people are in heaven (the bride, the Church),
and coming down out of heaven, because they have been there for 7 years.

[Luke 12:36] And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

[Rev 19:1] And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven [the raptured], saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

[Rev 19:7] Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready;
[Rev 19:8] it was granted her to be clothed with fine linen, bright and pure"--for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
[Rev 19:9] And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are true words of God."

[Rev 19:14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him [the raptured] upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

[Mat 24:29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[Mat 24:30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[Mat 24:31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

[Zech 14:5] And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

[Jud 1:14] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

[Col 3:4] When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Interesting verse number: 12:12 12 is written all over New Jerusalem, and there are 24 elders in heaven after the rapture in Rev. 4:1.

[Rev 12:12] Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!"

Yes, the Bride is in heaven, coming down out of heaven at the end of the tribulation:

[Rev 21:2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

[Rev 21:9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

[Rev 21:10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,


Mt. Zion & New Jerusalem: God's bride.
[Heb 12:22] But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

[Isa 51:16] And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
Daniel's 70th Week

The 70th week of Daniel, which becomes the 7-year Tribulation, is a judgement and curse determined upon Isreal, not the Church.

[Dan 9:24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

[Dan 9:25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

[Dan 9:26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

[Dan 9:27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The Church's sins are taken care of by Jesus' death, and we are not under the curse of the law, nor is the 70th week "to make an end for sins" determined for the Church..

[Gal 3:13] Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
[Gal 5:18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[Rom 6:14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[1Cor 6:12] All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
Who has dominion? Satan or the Lord Jesus Christ's Church?

Further, Satan will be given dominion for 42 months on earth, the second half of Daniel's 70th week, and the Church will not be put under Satan's dominion. The Church, given power by the Almighty Father in heaven, in the name of the Lord Jesus Chist, by the power of the Holy Spirit, restrains Satan, as was shown in 2 Thess 2. We know that Satan has not had full dominion over the Church, even though there are many Christian brothers dying still today, for if Satan did have this power, the Word of God would have been extinguished from the face of the earth by now. History alone proves that the Church is more powerful than Satan in this age, but the scriptures speak for themselves:

[Mark 3:14] And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
[Mark 3:15] And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:
[Mark 6:7] And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
[Mark 6:13.4] And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.
[Luke 9:1] Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
[Luke 10:19] Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
[Mat 10:8] Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Casting out Devils was not "just for the disciples only". Anyone can do this in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Mark 9:38.11] And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
[Mark 9:39] But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
[Mark 9:40] For he that is not against us is on our part.

Sucessfully casting out devils, does not make one "saved". Hence, if "unsaved" can cast out devils, then the Church surely has the power to restrain Satan.

[Mat 7:21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that
doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[Mat 7:22.24] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy
name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[Mat 7:23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[Eph 6:12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

[Mat 16:19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

[Mat 16:18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

But Satan will be given dominion and power to dominate the other way around!

[Dan 7:21] I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

[Rev 13:7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

So the Church must be raptured, "caught up", & Satan fights whoever is left over, the tribulation saints; those of the 7 churches who were spewed out into the time of testing, and repent and keep the commandments, and those foolish virgins in Matthew 25 who were expecting Christ's return, but were too busy with the world and caught unprepared.
The man child ruler Raptured in Rev 12
...is Christ and the Church (Christ is the head, the Church is the Body)

The woman giving birth is not the Bride. Jesus comes for a virgin bride. The woman is Isreal (who gave birth to Christ and Christians), who Satan turns to persecute after the rapture. But she is protected by God, so Satan turns toward new believers who are the "remnant of her seed" --tribulation saints, people repent in the tribulation, after the rapture. The man child, the woman's first child, which is caught up [harpazo] to God, is the Church in the pretribulation rapture.

[Rev 12:4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
[Rev 12:5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Every single charactistic of the man child applies to both Christ AND the Church. Christ rules, and we rule as his bride (over the nations, with a rod of iron, sitting on his throne).
Rev 2:26 He who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, I will give him power over the nations,
Rev 2:27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received power from my Father;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

That these characteristics apply to the Church, and that the man child represents the Church does not deny that the man child is Christ. Christ is an essential part of the Church, the HEAD!
[Col 1:18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Since the other "seed" of the woman represents believers (Saints of the Tribulation), the man child also represents the many believers of the Church.
[Rev 12:17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The man child nation is delivered, or caught up to God, before the travail, (the time of trouble, the tribulation, the Day of the Lord).
Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

continued................................benny

Christianity is a "nation".
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

"Lights/Christians" are not in "Darkness/Day of Lord/tribulation!"

[Mat 5:14] Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
[Phil 2:15] That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
[Mark 16:15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

[John 8:12] Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

[Amos 5:18] Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
[Amos 5:20] Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

[Joel 2:1] Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
[Joel 2:2] A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
[Joel 2:31] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

[Mat 24:21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

[Zeph 1:15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

[1Thess 5:4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
[1Thess 5:5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
[1Thess 5:6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

[Col 1:12] Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[Col 1:13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

So, another reason why Christians of the present age are not in that darkness, when Satan will have dominion, is:

[Mat 12:25] And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
[Mark 3:24] And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

We cannot effectively pray against Satan taking power, when God gives Satan power. It will be tough for the tribulation saints, God lets them be killed.

[Rev 13:10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

[Rev 14:12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
[Rev 14:13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Christ can return in any year at the Feast of Trumpets:
calls Christians to holy living!

The Rapture is signless & is compared to Noah's and Lot's time when people are caught unaware going about their daily lives. Thus, Christ's return is "imminent", the lord is not delaying his coming. Christ's Return at the Second coming comes after 7 years of tribulation with the dramatic sign of the antichrist in the temple claiming to be God. That would be a delay, and would not occur when people are marrying.

Also note: 1 Thess, the first book of the New Testament, the first verses listed on this page, does not speak of any signs of the tribulation. It speaks of the rapture only as the thing to watch for, and look forward to.

[2Pet 2:4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
[2Pet 2:5] And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
[2Pet 2:6] And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
[2Pet 2:7] And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
[2Pet 2:8] (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
[2Pet 2:9] The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

[Luke 17:26] And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[Luke 17:27] They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
[Luke 17:28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[Luke 17:29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

[Matthew 24:36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
[Matthew 24:37] But as the days of Noe [Noah] were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[Matthew 24:38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[Matthew 24:39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[Matthew 24:40] Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[Matthew 24:41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[Matthew 24:42] Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
[Matthew 24:43] But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
[Matthew 24:44] Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

The marrying and giving in marriage is in contrast to how things are in the Tribulation before the second coming:

Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
We look forward to Christ's appearing and return.

[Luke 21:28] And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

[Titus 2:13] Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

[Phil 3:20] For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Heb 12:1 ...let us run with patience the race that is set before us, [2] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith...

[Jud 1:21] Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

We do not look for, nor are told to look for, Satan's appearing.

In fact, we are told to specifically avoid looking for Jesus' physical appearing or return. The reason to avoid looking for Christ's physical appearing is because the AntiChrist will appear physically and claim to be Christ, from 2 Thess 2.

[Mat 24:23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
[Mat 24:24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
[Mat 24:25] Behold, I have told you before.
[Mat 24:26] Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Thus, we have a paradox. We look for Christ's return, but are told not to believe it if we hear he has returned, or someone claims to be Him. This mystery is solved through the pre tribulation rapture, which preceeds the appearance of the antichrist in the seven year tribulation. By the time the second coming arrives at the end of the seven year tribulation, everyone on earth will suddenly know who the Lord is without question, because he will destroy the antichrist with the "brightness of his coming" (2 Thess 2:8), and every person will "look upon the one whom they pierced" (Zechariah 12:10, Revelation 1:7, John 19:37).

We know that Jesus will appear physically at the second coming, despite the warnings against believing a physical appearing of a false christ in Matthew.

Rev. 19 & Zech 14

Zech 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zech 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zech 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

These scriptures about the Lord's physical return with his feet standing upon the Mt. of Olives should be taken literally, because today, in Jerusalem, modern scientists have determined that there is a great faultline running east to west under the mount of Olives in Jerusalem. There is also a great furor over whether or not, in fact, water is welling up under the mount, which is being secretly pumped away.

More scriptures emphasizing Christians wait for and look to Christ's return and not the appearance of the AntiChrist. (Imminancy)

1 Corinthians 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. [In Aramaic the expression Come, O Lord is Marana tha.]

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
James 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

[Acts 1:11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Will Christians REALLY be spared the Tribulation?

[Pss 97:10] Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

[Rom 5:8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[Rom 5:9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[Rom 5:10] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

[Isa 57:1] The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

[Mal 3:16] Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
[Mal 3:17] And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
[Mal 3:18] Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
[Mal 4:1] For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

[2Tim 4:18] And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Scriptures repeated above:

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ," (1 Thessalonians 5:9)

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." (Luke 21:36)

"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come." (1 Thessalonians 1:10)

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
(Revelation 3:10)
People will deny the promise


continued.....................................benny

The debate of pre trib vs. other positions is a spiritually painful one for many who rightly know that all Christians should worship in spirit and truth and unity. Unfortunately, they forget the following scriptures, that say division and heresies are inevitable:

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luke 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luke 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

[2Pet 2:1.5] But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in
damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

[2Pet 3:3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[2Pet 3:4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[2Pet 3:5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[2Pet 3:6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

[Mat 24:48] But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
[Mat 24:49] And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
[Mat 24:50] The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

[1Cor 15:12] Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
[1Cor 15:13] But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

[2Tim 2:18] Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The Rapture is a Secret Hidden Mystery?
The Lord Jesus Christ, in the Word of God, does not "clearly prove a pre tribulation rapture" with plain language, and this was done on purpose: (1) To hide the knowledge of end times from the early Apostles, who were not to know such things, and (2) to hide the truth from the hard hearted people who don't love the truth who are deceived, who deny the promise, and demand "proof" saying "where is the promise of his coming?" and "my Lord is delaying"

[1Cor 15:51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed...

Satan didn't know the plan of the Death of Jesus:

[1Cor 2:7] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
[1Cor 2:8] Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

[Prov 25:2.8] It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
--(Remember, we will be kings and priests in heaven!)

[Mat 13:10] And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
[Mat 13:11] He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

[2Thess 2:11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

[Mat 22:29] Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
[Mark 12:24] And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

[1Cor 14:22] ... prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

God even hid the meaning of a direct prophecy from his own 12 disciples (see Luke below)!!! I assume that if God can hide the meaning of direct and plain statements like this one below (Which was stated about 20 times in the gospels) from the Apostles, then God would have no trouble making a "normal" Christian (who may have his mind set against a "pre trib rapture") unreceptive and unable to come to a full understanding of things spoken of in wedding parables and Festival expressions--particularly ones people today are not familiar with--

[Luke 18:31] And taking the twelve, he said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything
that is written of the Son of man by the prophets will be accomplished.
[Luke 18:32] For he will be delivered to the Gentiles, and will be mocked and shamefully treated and spit
upon;
[Luke 18:33] they will scourge him and kill him, and on the third day he will rise."
[Luke 18:34] But they understood none of these things; this saying was hid from them, and they did not grasp
what was said.

Consider that God hides meaning from his own, for a purpose, and make sure you are truly humble before the Lord, and honest in your desire for understanding, and then pray and search the scriptures some more!

[Dan 10:12] Then he said to me, "Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your mind to understand and humbled yourself before your God, your words have been heard, and I have come because of your words.

Furthermore, Baby Christians are not able to understand certain things, the meat.

[1Cor 3:1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
[1Cor 3:2] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Please [2Tim 2:15] "Study to shew thyself approved unto God..." and be like the Bereans who [Acts 17:11] "...searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
End time knowledge was also hid from the Apostles of the early age.

[Acts 1:6] When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
[Acts 1:7] He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority.

[1Cor 13:12.7] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as
also I am known.

[Mark 13:33] Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
[Mat 24:44] Therefore you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

[Dan 12:9] And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
[Dan 12:10] Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand;
but the wise shall understand.
In the time of the end, the wise shall understand.

[Mark 13:23] But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
[Mark 4:22] For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come
abroad.
[1John 2:20] But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

[1John 2:27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same
anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

[Amos 3:7] Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

[1Pet 1:5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Isa 46:8] "Remember this and consider, recall it to mind, you transgressors,
[Isa 46:9] remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,
[Isa 46:10] declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, `My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'

[Ecclesiastes 1:9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

[Job 11:6] And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is! Know therefore that God exacteth
of thee less than thine iniquity deserveth.

[1Cor 10:11] Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

[Rev 21:27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Other "Pre Trib" verses:

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

More "Rapture" verses:

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Philipians 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, (NIV)
Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (KJV)

2 Corinthians 5 1-21, full chapter.
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

1 Peter 1:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by themthat have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
...

continued...............................benny

My Conclusion:

I am not "setting a date". But I am living in high expectation, and I am watching for the Lord's return. First, I believe the rapture will occur on a Feast of Trumpets.

I expect the rapture to come on a Feast of Trumpets, then and Satan's defeat on a Day of Atonement 7 years later. 75 days after Atonement is Hannuka, the day to rededicate the temple. This may explain Daniels's 1335 days, which are 75 days more than 1260 days which is the day count until Satan's defeat...

Personally, I believe that hard-hearted, contentious, post-tribbers, who teach lies, will get their prayers answered, and will find themselves in the tribulation:

[Rom 2:5] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[Rom 2:6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[Rom 2:7] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
[Rom 2:8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[Rom 2:9] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

How can they pray for something they don't believe?

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." (Luke 21:36)

Many Anti-Rapture webpages conclude with saying that they hope that people who believe in the Rapture will not put their 100% faith in it, because we just can't know whether or not there will be a rapture. Although I am 100% sure there will be a pre tribulation rapture, I will not guarantee this reward for anyone, nor will I speculate on who will ascend into heaven, because I cannot see into a person's heart...

[Rom 10:6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
[Rom 10:7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[Rom 10:8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[Rom 10:9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[Rom 10:10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

What? You ask me? How can I lead people to believe in the comforting doctrine of a pre tribulation rapture, and then say some people who wait for it will be shut out? Because that's what the Bible says!

[Phil 2:12.26] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Review Matthew 25, the 10 virgin parable. The five foolish virgins, who were waiting and looking for their Lord, were caught unprepared.

Review Revelation 2-3. There are seven Churches. Only one was told they would be spared the tribulation that was coming to try those who dwell on the earth.

I suppose the pre tribulation rapture teaching can lead to error if people use it as an excuse to not dig into the Word of God. "I don't need to study the tribulation or read the Bible... I won't be here..." Hey now, that's totally unscriptural, and I teach no such thing! "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, people!"

Or, if people believe they would never have to suffer any persecution ever at all for any reason. Clearly there was persecution in the past. There is ongoing persecution against Christians today, and there will be persecution against Christians in the future, before the Rapture comes.

The pre TRIBULATION rapture is not a promise of an escape from tribulation, but a guarantee that tribulation is coming on all the unrepentant and unready.

Clearly the Bible does not teach that all "Church go-ers" will be raptured. If someone did teach that ALL would be raptured, I believe that would contradict the parable of the 10 virgins and the accounts of the review of the Churches in the beginning of Revelation. In fact, as I see it, only half or less of Church-goers are deemed worthy at the Rapture date, and the rest are sent off into the Tribulation for further testing.

[Rev 3:10] Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.

If Christians are mentally prepared for persecution, then the doctrine would not "lead people into death", as they would be prepared for when persecution came, regardless of whether or not there was a rapture before the Tribulation. When people are ready for the rapture, they are ready for "death" at any time.

If Christians do not have total faith that they would be raptured, and are a bit unsure if they will be raptured or not, there also is no danger, as they would be prepared for persecution of the tribulation.

I teach:

THE pre tribulation rapture is 100% certain, and this is comforting for all true believers.
YOUR pre tribulation rapture not 100% certain... That is up to how you respond to the invitation to the gospel message, whether or not you repent, whether or not you believe in your heart, and confess to the Lord Jesus Christ with your mouth before men. See my "who goes in the rapture" collection of scriptures for more on this topic.

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." (Luke 21:36)

Besides, in order to teach a pre tribulation rapture, you need to define and teach what that "tribulation" will consist of... so there's no deception going on.

A post trib perspective would lead one to store up food, and be concerned with worldly posessions. A pre tribber can focus on preaching the gospel message.

What is our faith? What is Christianity? That we believe the Word of God, which teaches that all men are sinful, and in need of the atoning death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. That we believe he came in the flesh. That Christ conquors all, and has the power of forgiveness of sins. That we have the hope that if Christ did what he did, spoke the truth, and did not lie, we have the hope of everlasting life, and that we will be with him in heaven.

The rapture doctrine is simply that we will be with Christ in heaven. Pre-trib rapture doctrine is simply that before the tribulation of the AntiChrist and mark of the beast world system, there will be a fulfillment of one of Christ's basic promises.


If I'm wrong, there will be 3.5 years of pre-wrath tribulation. If I'm wrong, there will be 3.5 years of preaching by two supernaturally- powered witnesses of God. (Rev 11). If I'm wrong, there will be another 3.5 years after the AntiChrist reveals himself by confirming a 7-year covenant with Isreal, (Dan 9:27) and 3.5 years before the AntiChrist sets himself up in the temple and declares himself to be God. (2 Thess 2:3-5) If I'm wrong, there would be time to set things straight...

If the people who teach there is no rapture are wrong... woah! The consequences will be devestating! If the rapture happens, and they have been caught teaching lies, they might not be deemed worthy, but instead suffer all the curses of the tribulation!

[Rev 22:18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall
add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

[Rev 22:19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take
away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this
book.

What will various post tribbers believe AFTER the pre tribulation rapture? First, they will be wailing and gnashing their teeth...

The AntiChrist and False Prophet will come onto the scene, and announce one of several possibilities...

1. that the people who disappeared were deemed mentally unfit for the new world, not ready for the next evolutionary step...
2. they had to be taken away by space aliens to be "re-educated" to reform their intolerant Jesus-only backward way of thinking...
3. the missing people were all opposers of the new "Christ" and world system, wicked intolerant hateful Bible literalists...
or
4. the rapture and end has just come, and that the AntiChrist is Jesus, coming back right after the rapture, to set up the millinial world kingdom.

(The gog/magog war of Ezekiel 38,39 which should start the 7 year tribulation, will be claimed to be Armageddon.)

Post tribbers claim the rapture will happen right before Armageddon.
Pre tribbers claim the rapture will happen before the gog/magog war, and that Armageddon happens at the end of the 7 years.

Pause and consider the risk/reward scenario regarding the pre-trib rapture.
Let the odds of probability decide which is the more dangerous doctrine to hold and/or teach...


Whether or not I think of myself worthy or not to escape in the Rapture, or whether you think you don't deserve to be in heaven while Christians today are dying for the faith, has no bearing on whether the doctrine is true or not.

Why do Churches feel so uncomfortable about the idea of the rapture? Read over the parable about the kingdom of God being like 10 virgins in Matthew 25, quoted above. All are chaste, and awaiting Christ's return, but only one half go. Kind of scary isn't it? Only in the sense that you should begin to Fear God if you are not a true Christian Holy Spirit filled believer!

Final thoughts for anyone who has read this page: Jesus holds people accountable for knowing the times they live in.

L12:54 Then he went on to say also to the crowds: "When you see a cloud rising in western parts, at once you say, 'A storm is coming,' and it turns out so. L12:55 And when you see that a south wind is blowing, you say, 'There is a heat wave,' and it occurs. L12:56 Hypocrites, you know how to examine the outward appearance of earth and sky, but how is it you do not know how to examine this particular time?"

If you have not yet repented and accepted Jesus, remember the story of the thief dying on the cross next to Jesus:

"And he said unto Jesus, LORD, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:42-43(KJ))

This story is a beautiful example of the love and mercy of our Lord. Right up until the very time that this thief was about to die, this thief was lost. Then, he realized who Jesus was. He humbly asked Jesus to remember him. He called Him Lord. He was saved at the very last moment, and given the assurance of being with Jesus.

If you are a believer who has left your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, come home now! Remember the story of the lost son, who came home!!!

[Luke 15:11] And he said, A certain man had two sons:
[Luke 15:12] And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
[Luke 15:13] And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
[Luke 15:14] And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
[Luke 15:15] And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
[Luke 15:16] And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
[Luke 15:17] And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
[Luke 15:18] I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
[Luke 15:19] And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
[Luke 15:20] And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
[Luke 15:21] And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
[Luke 15:22] But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
[Luke 15:23] And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
[Luke 15:24] For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

WEBMASTERS! Feel free to copy everything on this page, or link directly to this page. The Gospel can never be copyrighted! And if I said anything that is inconsistent with the Word of God, I hope and pray that you would email me about it if you decide to copy this page and/or change it! group@spintheweb.com

The Gospel & Salvation Message (from the King James Bible)

[Rom 5:8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[1John 1:8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[1John 1:9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[Rom 10:9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[Rom 10:10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[Mat 10:32] Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

.................................................benny

Excellent words my friend. I do think that, hypothetically speaking, that if there was no pre-trib rapture, Christians would be able to point out the Anti-Christ because we know who Jesus really is. I agree with your point that if there was a post-trib rapture that we would need to "store up earthly treasures" just to survive. This included MONEY, Food, Water, and Gas for a seven year time period, which I think most people can't afford right away. And if you store up American Dollars (if you live in America), what will the new world currency be? Will your American Dollars equal to what the new currency will be? Or will it be just a fraction of it? I am building up my heavenly treasures!

I also agree with you saying that there will be a Rapture, but are "you" going to be included? Everyday we fall away from God somehow. But his glories return every morning with the rising sun. He gives us chance after chance to repent. He is a loving and gracious God, but jealous as well. Everyone needs to get their ducks in a row with God. He will come, are we ready?

" He will come, are we ready?"

He will

He sure will,,,,,,,,,,,,, after the temptation of Satan...........

Hey! Nightmare,....When does the resurrection happen?
When the Lord is descending or after Daniels week is over with, and armageddon is over?

.....................................................benny

bump in the night
.................................................benny

contingency

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contingency
1: the quality or state of being contingent2: a contingent event or condition: as a: an event (as an emergency) that may but is not certain to occur <trying to provide for every contingency> b: something liable to happen as an adjunct to or result of something else


In the matter of law of the spirit of salvation rules/codes of ethics,
salvation does not hold a contingency clause, due to our belief in a
rapture or not a rapture.

LET US REMEMBER, salvation is not earned, it is gift !

The debate is about the topic : rapture


SALVATION DOES NOT HOLD A CONTINGENCY CLAUSE !



http://www.stmatthewsnj.org/blog/wp-conten...5/Ascension.jpg

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...c=18549&hl=
Dna, Genetics, & God : Adam Being The Prototype Of A Fallen Race Of Mankind, Jesus being the prototype of a redeemed race of new creatures


Post#4
excerpt:
Adam had a glorified body before he sinned and lost it. He was the first man. The Lord received a glorified body when He was resurrected. And all that are in Him will receive glorified bodies when He comes back to earth. There will be a third man, a forth man, etc. [1 John 3:2] ‘Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is’. [Phil 3:21] ‘Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself’’. [Col 3:4] ‘When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory’.

What an awesome thought, that believers will someday reign with Him, clothed in a body just like His! But the tragic fact is that many people, even on church membership rolls, are still in the first Adam. That was true of me for 26 years. Dear reader, are you sure that you are in Christ, and that the promise is for you?

Gideon said, he sure will come, but Stephen I dont believe you are ready for what is instore for you before his return, at the end of the world.

I do not listen to the devil G

You should be more aware of just who rings your ears

The Lord's Grace is sufficient.

Mat 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?


Mat 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?


Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?


Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:


Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.


Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?


Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?


Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.


Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


Mat 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day [is] the evil thereof.


Gidgeon,...every time you speak, the Word of God rebukes your words of deceit.


.............................................benny

The resurrection happens when the Lord is descending,,,I mean where dealing with micro-seconds here but when the Lord returns we will all be transformed thus it is the Resurrection......

Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."




You dont have many friends do you Stephen......

just someone else point of view. LEts see what they got
http://www.apocalipsis.org/endtime.htm

Nightmare,Do you not think that you are jumping the gun a little there?
What happened to Armaggeddon and the false prophet and ac being cast into the lake of fire and satan getting chained and cast into the bottomless pit?
Does not all these happen before the resurrection of the martyred trib saints?
Where does it state that those alive are raptured in rev. 20;4

Something seems to not add up to your statement, don't you think?
Are you saying that as the Lord is descending that the dead and alive are raptured and changed into immortal bodies before His feet touch Mount Olivet?
If so,...who are these martyred saints being resurrected after armageddon,...which would mean that the Lord had already been fighting armageddon and split mount olivet in two and cast the false prophet and the anti-christ into the lake of fire......what say you?

............................................benny

The Pre-tribulation theology is one wholly based on conclusions, who's foundation is nothing other than sifting sand made of false assumptions. I am not going to argue this anymore, because the deceptiveness of your own Heart has brought on complete spiritual blindness. I really really Hope someday you quit decieving yourself, and properly place your faith where it should be. When you find yourself in a time period you were so sure you were supposed to miss, don't feel God has betrayed you, or at least try not to.

He will be beside me in heaven.

................................................benny

You have not shown any rapture in any of those bible verses. There is no rapture in scripture. Just a lost soul grasping at the straws created by the vanity of man. Willing to lead every one who will follow you to hell.

"You have not shown any rapture in any of those bible verses. There is no rapture in scripture. Just a lost soul grasping at the straws created by the vanity of man. Willing to lead every one who will follow you to hell"

>What depraved and useless statements to make

>I see on another posting of yours that you state a correct understanding of the Lord's "harpazo"

>At least this appears to be the case

>Most call this action the "rapture" because of the latin translation of the Greek

>I do not, but most are not familiar with the Greek "harpazo" .... but they consider the same

>So why would you not understand this relationship and discredit one who speaks of the "rapture"

>Please explain

Benny...I read your reply to me earlier but now I can't find it; there are so many rapture threads my head is spinning. I do have a few questions and since you are kind I'd prefer you answer me (unless Stephen has had a change of heart) And I'd happily accept his answers(s) as well..

I'm very much a line upon line, precept upon precept kind of Bible reader and going step by step in Matthew 24 I do not find that anyone is removed from earth until the very end. So can you walk me through and I'll also provide Scripture comparison with other passages.

Here we go:

First thing I notice is this:(I'll underline where I see emphasis should should be shown) :

Matt 24:1
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

(according to Matthew; Jesus departed the temple right then and went to sit upon Mount Olives)

Matt 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

(So the disciples requested private information pertaining to the end of times and they asked 3 specific questions)

And the very first thing Yahshua say's...which He chose as an obvious priority is:

(Matt 24:4).... "Take heed that no man deceive you".
And here is what Paul say's to compare:
2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means:..."

*And that began the tribulation for those of us who believe and declare Yahshua as Messiah *

Next Yahshua expounds upon "how" a believer might become deceived and what to be aware of:

Matt:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

(I think these two also are good verse's that clarify what Yahshua is speaking)

Galatians 2:4
And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Next part of the tribulation(s) we endure and suffer are:

Matthew 24:6
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

We have all endured the above; can you say we have not and are still not? But that is not the end..

Next:
Matthew 24:7
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

(So would you agree we've suffered and still endure the above tribulations from this world?) And yet He say's these are just the BEGINNING for us!

And then He say's:
Matthew 24:8
All these are the beginning of sorrows.


And here comes the sorrows...
Matthew 24:9
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

(That is certainly true today and even then..and many nations hate America for we are 'considered' a Predominately Christian Nation) Do you agree?

Matthew 24:10
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

(I see much of this happening today especially amongst the body of Messiah or atleast those that profess to be Christians)

Matthew 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

(This is another one that no-one can deny is not happening; it is rare to find two believers who agree these day's...why do you think that is? Because there are so many false prophet's, everyone has a prophecy pretaining to the Bible; especially Revelation!)

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Matthew 24:12
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

This is very true of today...do you know there are hardly any "good samaritans" anymore? People are so untrusting and untrustowrthy and people are so afraid of other people that it is rare to invite a complete stranger into one's home for a meal much less to assist someone on the side of the road (not to mention cell phones are 'peoples' lifelines these days !) For me personally; I consider this one of the most profound statements Yahshua makes regarding "end times" there is so much crime and so many people doing and committing the most terrible lawless acts; that it has made even "Christians" cold and fearful of their own brothers and sisters! People are bitter, overworked, underpaid, they are tired, they are treated disrespectfully and thus return the same, people do not smile much at all anymore...believe me, I am a witness to this FACT as I always pay attention to people's behaviour in public places, whether they are workers or patrons, people are not happy, therefore they are not loving or inviting.

And Apostle Paul reminds us of the most important thing within the entire Gospel, over all gifts and prophecies and knowledge; we are only half without charity (love) we are incomplete without love, we are not even close to being where we should be without love and most of all to remember when all things are forgotten is:

1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

God IS Love; that sums up the ENTIRE Bible right there, but it is the one thing that the majority of believers have forgotten or cast off...we are even TOLD to love our enemies; not fellowship now, but love them too because...

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

1 Peter 3:9
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

We are VERY much in the above prophetic time(s) drawing ever nearer unto the END and as we see; it is more painful to "see" and "hear" and "feel" but we have a promise coming if we wait on the Lord not jumping ahead or falling too far behind and also assisting others as we see them fall behind (provided they allow for a lending hand) which also is rare these day's. Everyone in this world appears to believe they are right; yet there is only ONE truth; so it could be deduced that MANY are in fact..deceived as Yahshua forewarned.

But then Yahshua...(He is Wonderful) He reminds us believer this:
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

So to me; right in the midst of all the travail, tribulations, persecutions and sorrows..He steps in to remind us in a sense that soon but not yet for you are nearly there...keep going.

He reminds us why we are still here...
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

AHA!! Now He has given us a BIG clue as to when the END shall come. THIS Gospel has to be preached in all the world as a witness unto all nations FIRST! So we have pretty much endured up to this point of the tribulation..would you agree?

Well I think now is time to take a break, it is soooo late and I'm surely tired. I just want to say that as believers who confess Yahshua as Messiah Saviour we are destined for trouble; it is a Scriptural Fact that we are not liked by many; in fact even hated. Do any of us understand this? It makes no sense to me that not only would people hate us but also Him and He is Saviour and laid down His life for us..how can people not flock to Him in groves at this time is bizzare but prophesied to happen. So our lives pretty much hang in the balances here in this world of non-believers and false believers, but we are assured and comforted that we have the victory already because we know He does. We are also commanded not to love our lives even unto death; because we ought to know that death has no more hold upon us. These Gospel truths are why I have such a difficult time believing in a rapture or snatching away. Not only has the above passages proven beyond any doubt that we are IN the tribulation, but also that we must endure unto the end. We are not destined for wrath as believers, we are covered in the Blood of the Lamb; it is not that different at all to what the Israelites went through with putting the blood upon their doors to seal them from the destroyer; they were not raptured, they were hidden and thus completely safe and protected !

Why is that something so hard to believe today? I believe I am protected and also so are you; by your faith and your belief in Jesus Christ, you are dead man walking pretty much! Like even Apostle Paul stated..."I die daily" You have been bought with a price my dear and not with vain manners of men either. We have a duty and work and gifts to be bestowed but we are lacking because we're all afraid And if it were not so, then there would be more of our voices in the streets praising and proclaiming the Gospel of the Good News! But no...we're all in here fighting and debating with oneanother; ultimitely over who is going to be first (taken) who is going to be martyred and how "twisted it is to want to be killed for Him" that is one of the BIGGEST clues that the rapture is a farce to the Gospel...think of how many-to include the prophets and Jesus Himself- have died over the past 4000 or more years, so that we today can freely and boldly finish what we are commisioned to finish before the Lord returns, and yet it is considered twisted? Wait..did not our Saviour whom we confess to follow lay His life down and raise it as well? Nothing twisted about that at all! We are bought...our lives are no longer ours; He will do His will in us, or we will fight Him, it is that simple. He said the gate was narrow...

I know this and I'll finish this off...I know we have a promise coming and it is not going to be done in secret; He is returning this time, in power and great glory, He is coming in the clouds all eyes will see Him, even those that pierced Him! ALL eye..yes all. If we are here, we will be changed and if we are asleep we will awaken, some will change to incorruptable and some corruptable, but we're ALL changing at that last trumpet. His glory alone is going to be bigger than 100000 nuclear atomic bombs! We'll have no choice but to change! He is going to blast the wicked right out of here all in a twinkling of an eye, that is quicker than a blink

So goodnight and much love...if nothing else can we all agree on the Gospel? Can we have mercy for eachother and love? It is so greatly needed; even to those who hate us..because as Yahshua say's...

"Forgive them Father, for they know not..what they do"

[quote name='~Selah~' date='Oct 23 2008, 03:47 AM' post='251884']
Benny...I read your reply to me earlier but now I can't find it; there are so many rapture threads my head is spinning. I do have a few questions and since you are kind I'd prefer you answer me (unless Stephen has had a change of heart) And I'd happily accept his answers(s) as well..

I'm very much a line upon line, precept upon precept kind of Bible reader and going step by step in Matthew 24 I do not find that anyone is removed from earth until the very end. So can you walk me through and I'll also provide Scripture comparison with other passages.

Here we go:

First thing I notice is this:(I'll underline where I see emphasis should should be shown) :

Matt 24:1
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

(according to Matthew; Jesus departed the temple right then and went to sit upon Mount Olives)

Matt 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

(So the disciples requested private information pertaining to the end of times and they asked 3 specific questions)

And the very first thing Yahshua say's...which He chose as an obvious priority is:

(Matt 24:4).... "Take heed that no man deceive you".
And here is what Paul say's to compare:
2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means:..."

*And that began the tribulation for those of us who believe and declare Yahshua as Messiah *

Next Yahshua expounds upon "how" a believer might become deceived and what to be aware of:

Matt:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

(I think these two also are good verse's that clarify what Yahshua is speaking)

Galatians 2:4
And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Next part of the tribulation(s) we endure and suffer are:

Matthew 24:6
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

We have all endured the above; can you say we have not and are still not? But that is not the end..

Next:
Matthew 24:7
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

(So would you agree we've suffered and still endure the above tribulations from this world?) And yet He say's these are just the BEGINNING for us!

And then He say's:
Matthew 24:8
All these are the beginning of sorrows.


And here comes the sorrows...
Matthew 24:9
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

(That is certainly true today and even then..and many nations hate America for we are 'considered' a Predominately Christian Nation) Do you agree?

Matthew 24:10
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

(I see much of this happening today especially amongst the body of Messiah or atleast those that profess to be Christians)

Matthew 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

(This is another one that no-one can deny is not happening; it is rare to find two believers who agree these day's...why do you think that is? Because there are so many false prophet's, everyone has a prophecy pretaining to the Bible; especially Revelation!)

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Matthew 24:12
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

This is very true of today...do you know there are hardly any "good samaritans" anymore? People are so untrusting and untrustowrthy and people are so afraid of other people that it is rare to invite a complete stranger into one's home for a meal much less to assist someone on the side of the road (not to mention cell phones are 'peoples' lifelines these days !) For me personally; I consider this one of the most profound statements Yahshua makes regarding "end times" there is so much crime and so many people doing and committing the most terrible lawless acts; that it has made even "Christians" cold and fearful of their own brothers and sisters! People are bitter, overworked, underpaid, they are tired, they are treated disrespectfully and thus return the same, people do not smile much at all anymore...believe me, I am a witness to this FACT as I always pay attention to people's behaviour in public places, whether they are workers or patrons, people are not happy, therefore they are not loving or inviting.

And Apostle Paul reminds us of the most important thing within the entire Gospel, over all gifts and prophecies and knowledge; we are only half without charity (love) we are incomplete without love, we are not even close to being where we should be without love and most of all to remember when all things are forgotten is:

1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

God IS Love; that sums up the ENTIRE Bible right there, but it is the one thing that the majority of believers have forgotten or cast off...we are even TOLD to love our enemies; not fellowship now, but love them too because...

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

1 Peter 3:9
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

We are VERY much in the above prophetic time(s) drawing ever nearer unto the END and as we see; it is more painful to "see" and "hear" and "feel" but we have a promise coming if we wait on the Lord not jumping ahead or falling too far behind and also assisting others as we see them fall behind (provided they allow for a lending hand) which also is rare these day's. Everyone in this world appears to believe they are right; yet there is only ONE truth; so it could be deduced that MANY are in fact..deceived as Yahshua forewarned.

But then Yahshua...(He is Wonderful) He reminds us believer this:
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

So to me; right in the midst of all the travail, tribulations, persecutions and sorrows..He steps in to remind us in a sense that soon but not yet for you are nearly there...keep going.

He reminds us why we are still here...
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

AHA!! Now He has given us a BIG clue as to when the END shall come. THIS Gospel has to be preached in all the world as a witness unto all nations FIRST! So we have pretty much endured up to this point of the tribulation..would you agree?

Well I think now is time to take a break, it is soooo late and I'm surely tired. I just want to say that as believers who confess Yahshua as Messiah Saviour we are destined for trouble; it is a Scriptural Fact that we are not liked by many; in fact even hated. Do any of us understand this? It makes no sense to me that not only would people hate us but also Him and He is Saviour and laid down His life for us..how can people not flock to Him in groves at this time is bizzare but prophesied to happen. So our lives pretty much hang in the balances here in this world of non-believers and false believers, but we are assured and comforted that we have the victory already because we know He does. We are also commanded not to love our lives even unto death; because we ought to know that death has no more hold upon us. These Gospel truths are why I have such a difficult time believing in a rapture or snatching away. Not only has the above passages proven beyond any doubt that we are IN the tribulation, but also that we must endure unto the end. We are not destined for wrath as believers, we are covered in the Blood of the Lamb; it is not that different at all to what the Israelites went through with putting the blood upon their doors to seal them from the destroyer; they were not raptured, they were hidden and thus completely safe and protected !

Why is that something so hard to believe today? I believe I am protected and also so are you; by your faith and your belief in Jesus Christ, you are dead man walking pretty much! Like even Apostle Paul stated..."I die daily" You have been bought with a price my dear and not with vain manners of men either. We have a duty and work and gifts to be bestowed but we are lacking because we're all afraid And if it were not so, then there would be more of our voices in the streets praising and proclaiming the Gospel of the Good News! But no...we're all in here fighting and debating with oneanother; ultimitely over who is going to be first (taken) who is going to be martyred and how "twisted it is to want to be killed for Him" that is one of the BIGGEST clues that the rapture is a farce to the Gospel...think of how many-to include the prophets and Jesus Himself- have died over the past 4000 or more years, so that we today can freely and boldly finish what we are commisioned to finish before the Lord returns, and yet it is considered twisted? Wait..did not our Saviour whom we confess to follow lay His life down and raise it as well? Nothing twisted about that at all! We are bought...our lives are no longer ours; He will do His will in us, or we will fight Him, it is that simple. He said the gate was narrow...

I know this and I'll finish this off...I know we have a promise coming and it is not going to be done in secret; He is returning this time, in power and great glory, He is coming in the clouds all eyes will see Him, even those that pierced Him! ALL eye..yes all. If we are here, we will be changed and if we are asleep we will awaken, some will change to incorruptable and some corruptable, but we're ALL changing at that last trumpet. His glory alone is going to be bigger than 100000 nuclear atomic bombs! We'll have no choice but to change! He is going to blast the wicked right out of here all in a twinkling of an eye, that is quicker than a blink

So goodnight and much love...if nothing else can we all agree on the Gospel? Can we have mercy for eachother and love? It is so greatly needed; even to those who hat