titus 1:





1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;



God has before the Foundation of The world, promised eternal Life to Jesus christ and to His seed.





This Life is and was and always has been in Jesus christ and promised to His seed in Him..



1 jn 5:



10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.



The record..greek:



martyria:

1) a testifying

a) the office committed to the prophets of testifying concerning future events

2) what one testifies, testimony, i.e. before a judge



This testimony is regarding the gospel eternal purpose paul refers to in 2 tim 1:



8Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;



9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 11Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.



This purpose and grace given in Jesus christ [Gods Son] is pertaining to Eternal Life..





Because of our election in Jesus christ, we [the elect] have been given eternal life..This Life is in Gods Son and we too in Him as seed..



This ensures in time, that all the seed will actually partake of this Life eternal..



This means we are heirs of salvation..heb 1:



14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?



rom 8:



17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together



When were the children Joint heirs with Jesus christ..



Lets Look at heb 2:



13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;



The children were given to Jesus christ before they and he took on flesh and blood..when did the children take on flesh and blood ?



This was in adam..the children began their physical lives in flesh and blood as when they stood in adam in the beginning..



Notice it says the children as in many and not child as in one..the point is all the election of grace were in the Loins of adam in His flesh and blood..and conversley so..all the election of grace was in The Lord Jesus christ when he took on flesh and blood, not all flesh and blood but a certain segment..The seed of abraham heb 2:



16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham



This is important to follow my presentation..because it was not all of abrahams seed in viewbut the children of promise were heirs of heaven



Look at heb 11:



8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:



You see, heirs of the same promise, what promise ? remember titus 1:



2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;



Its the promise of eternal life , a eternal Inheritance that abraham Isaach and Jacob were heirs of and Looked for..look here:



vs 10 heb 11:



10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.



vs



13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.



Not recieving the promises, but died in faith, belieivng in a eternal inheritance, eternal life as a promise..they confessed they were strangers and pilgrims of the earth, this indicates too that the promises they embraced from God was not of this earth..



vs



14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.



They sought a country..not of this world, not a earthly inheritence..



but vs



15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.



They sought a heavenly country.. this is eternal Life..This is what God promised abrahams seed..what seed ?



Gal 3:



16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.



This seed.. as i began, the elect have been given and promised eternal life, for this promise is given to Jesus christ and His seed in Him..



You see abraham, isaach and Jacob..never had eternal life offered to them..for their refusal or acceptance..but it had been revealed to them as it was to our Father abraham, we have been given a eternal inheritance

by promise..Gods promise..that cannot Lie..and His elect in all generations come to experience this eternal life in this life by their newbirth..



It is a lie and deception of the devil today..to preach that eternal life is offered to all people every where and now its up to them to take it or refuse it..This teaching underminds and dishonors The promises of God, for He promised Eternal Life to a seed..and God cannot lie..Jesus christ is that seed as gal 3 16 reveals..and the church, in him by election, He as their head..



True God exalting preaching is to proclaim eternal life is given to a seed, this eternal life belongs to all who have been elected in The Son of God.before the world began..



1 jn 5:



11And this is the record[testimony], that God hath given[ not offered] to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. [by election]

I disagree, there is so much more to this than you are presenting. You are not reading it in the context of the time it was written (regarding the Elect). I don't have time to go into it now, as I get up early, but hopefully I can present it at a later date. This is just not correct, IMHO.

Hugs, Rose

God gives grace (un-deserved favor) to the repentant man

God gives Justice to the un-repentant man

God is a Just Judge.
He does not over-punish anyone.
or under-punish anyone.
He punishes the un-repentant "just right".

An eye for an eye.
a tooth for a tooth

if i turn people away from Christ,,,,,,,their loss is infinite and everlasting,,,,,,,and i must be punished with infinite, everlasting punishment........unless i repent and believe God, in which case, God will forgive me.

God's Grace is infinite, amazing!
He is Gracious, because He is Perfect Love.

Do you think the prophets went to heaven????Of course.......

4Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

It would seem God has chosen some already.......Indeed Jeremiah was destine to enter the kingdom.....are there others????

Of course.......

Regarding scriptural passages are those that speak of the "elect, " and their fewness; of the "many" called, but the "few" chosen. That God's election is a doctrine clearly revealed in Scripture, no impartial reader can doubt: although unfortunately, around few subjects has the battle of controversy been so furiously waged. One party has, in affirming God's election - which is true, so affirmed it as to make Him into an arbitrary and cruel tyrant - which is false. But the truer and deeper views of God's plan of mercy through Jesus Christ - now in the ascendant I trust - teach us to affirm distinctly the doctrine of the divine election of "the few :" and just because we so affirm it, to connect with it purposes of universal mercy. For what is the true end and meaning of God's election? The elect, we reply, are chosen, not for themselves only, but for the sake of others. They are "elect," not merely to be blessed, but to be a source of blessing. It is not merely with the paltry object of saving a few, while the vast majority perish, that God elects; it is with a purpose of mercy to all; it is by "the few" to save "the many ;" by the elect to save the world.

"If you go to Scripture," says Dr. Cox, "you will find this its constant teaching. Even in those early days when one man, one family, one nation, were successively chosen, to be the depositories of divine truth, when, therefore, if ever we might expect to find the redemptive purpose of God disclosed within narrow and local limitations; when unquestionably it was much fettered and restrained by personal promises, and by national and temporary institutions; the divine purpose is for ever overstepping every limit, every transient localisation and restraint, and claiming as its proper share, all the souls that are and shall be." - Salvat. Mund. This admits of easy proof. Take a typical case to show what God's election really means. Take the case of ABRAHAM, the father and founder of God's elect people. What was the promise to him? 'That in his seed should all the families of the earth be blessed.' This was of the essence of God's election. And to this effect S. PAUL speaks with perfect clearness. And thoughtful readers will remark that it is precisely the Apostle who lays most stress on the divine sovereignty, who most clearly teaches universal restoration.

The promise to ABRAHAM was, S. PAUL tells us, that he should be the heir of the world, Rom. iv. 13; words most expressive, and yet without meaning on the common view of election. In other words the Jews, as God's elect, have, as their inheritance, all lands, all peoples. In the same Epistle S. PAUL points out how close the connection is between Israel and the world. Three times over he asserts their very fall to be the riches of the world, and asks if so, what will not the reconciling of Israel be (to the world). In short, on God's elect people hangs the lot and destiny of mankind - see Gal. iii. 8, and Acts iii. 21-5; the latter passage is very interesting, for S. PETER there asserts the connection between an universal restoration, and the promise to ABRAHAM, i.e., his election.

A further admirable illustration of this may be given (furnished by Holy Scripture) from its teaching as to the "firstfruits," and as to the "firstborn." Israel, as God's elect, is the "firstfruits" - Israel the "firstborn." But the "firstfruits" imply and pledge the whole harvest; the "firstborn" involve and include, in the divine economy, the whole family. Hence the promise that "all Israel shall be saved" implies the world's salvation.

It is thus clear that we, so far from denying the election of the few, lay stress on it as essential to God's plan of mercy for all . It becomes indeed a corner stone, so to speak, in the edifice of the world's salvation; for His "elect" are the very means by which our Father designs to bless all His children - designs to work out His plan of universal salvation. "The sovereignty by which God reigns is eternal love."


This is what I learned and I studied. I am in no way saying that I know the whole truth, I am stating what I believe to be true as the Lord spoke it to my heart. You can interpret and believe as God speaks to you. This is my contribution. No stone throwing like usual or I will not participate. Thank you and God bless you!

Of course, and our turn just hasn't come yet. Firstfruits mean first, then there must be a second...

It's not that they were elected, they died and were first.

Its the Truth you disagree with..scripture explains scriptures..

You're entitled to your opinion.

Blessings, Rose

Boy, we can certainly jump to conclusions. You know that a scripture is not in isolation of the rest of the scriptures in the Bible. The scriptures tell us that all died in faith not receiving the promise. It also told us that the dead in Christ will rise first at Jesus second coming. Jesus also told us that no one has ascended to heaven, except the son of man who is in heaven.

Now, I realize that some people will have all sort of reasons in their mind to rationalize that these scriptures that I am hinting to do not apply to whomever they will insist are alive in heaven, (I have already been through this, so I know) so I am not going to waste time trying to convince you, unless you are not familiar with them and would like to check them out for yourself.

No such thing, except that all the chosen ones are world wide..but God does not have mercy in a salvation context except his chosen..rom 9:


15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?





I am preaching the Gospel, not my opinion..

Yes, to me it is your opinion, but like I said, you are entitled. Get a good commentary and look some of this up. There is so much more, I can't even begin to touch the surface. His MERCY shall live forever and there are scriptures I could quote you but it's not worth it for a closed mind.

I am not going to comment here anymore. Have fun!

Bless you all!

Too bad its not to you what it is to God and me..The Truth..but thats Gods will too..

Paul said

Heb 11v

1: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2: For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3: Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4: By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5: By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6: But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7: By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8: By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9: By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11: Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12: Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13: These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14: For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15: And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16: But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

17: By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18: Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

20: By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

21: By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

22: By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

23: By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

24: By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25: Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26: Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

27: By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

28: Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

29: By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

30: By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

31: By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

32: And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

33: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

34: Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

35: Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

36: And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

37: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38: (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

[b]39: And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.[/b]