Death And Resurrection:


Death and resurrection, spiritually and physically. What does this statement mean? There are a few things we must find out. When a person dies, does he or she have any consciousness? Does a puff of smoke leave their body and go flying off into the third heaven? Do they just float around the earth hunting houses, jumping from behind trees scaring people? If you have a logical bone in your body you know that is sheer nonsense.

It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true"(John 8:17).

We will quote testimonies from the Prophets and the Apostle. Who gave them the word?

(Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.)

They received the law by the disposition of angels. Where did the angels get the word?

(Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

The angels got it from the Lord. The Lord got it from the Father. The Prophets and the Apostle are simply quoting the Lord. If you don't believe them, you don't believe the Lord. Our first witness is Solomon. He is very wise, as a matter of fact he was wiser than any man that walked the earth.

Why?

I Kings 3:28 And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment.

I Kings 4:1 So king Solomon was king over all Israel. He had the wisdom of God.

lets get started

Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live,and after that they go to the dead.



Take a look at what Solomon said. This event happened to us all while we are under the sun. Why did he say under the sun? We'll find this out later. Pay close attention here. The heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live. While they live. Then what happens after that? They go to the dead.

Ecclesiastes 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope
: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.


While you are still alive there is still hope. What hope is this? Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

This is what you hope for while you are still alive. Notice something else, Solomon said. For a living dog is better than a dead lion. Why is that? The dog is alive and the lion is dust. Can a dead lion be of any use? No! Solomon said a mouth full, look at the next verse.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints.

If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.

Let's find another witness.

The Lord said that David was a man after His own heart. David should know about this subject.

Let's see if David and Solomon are on the same page.

Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish
.


"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help". Why did David make this statement in verse 3? No man can give you eternal life; neither does any man have a lake of fire to put you in. Whom shall you put all your trust?

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

How do you lean on the Lord's understanding and not your own? By reading the book without putting a twist on it and taking every word for what it says, you will never go wrong. Why should you do that?

Pay close attention.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

If his thoughts are higher than ours, why should anyone try to interpret His Word. Seems like David and Solomon are on the same page.

Look at verse 4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. His thoughts perish when he gives up his last breath.

Man is made of 2 elements dust, and breath, no more, no less.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.



Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Psalms 88:

10 Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.

11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?

12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

What did he call the grave? The land of forgetfulness. So far the Bible is consistent.

Let's check out a few more Psalm.

Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Was that hard to understand? No. If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm.

Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

This verse clarifies the 6th Psalm. David and Solomon are consistent.

Let's go to another Prophet, the Prophet Isaiah and see what he has to say about this subject.



Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.



19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.


The Prophet Isaiah confirmed what David and Solomon said. "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth". Does anything else need to be said? This is very clear.

Look at verse 19. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth. While you are alive you can praise the Lord.

to be continue....

The dead go nowhere and time stops for their spirits

They know nothing and do not experience time lapse

But, all will be returned to an awakened state whe the Lord calls them

His calling is still pending

The spirits of all believers will be immortalized and the spirits of all unbelievers will burn in His lake of fire

First His call for the Body of Christ, of both living and dead believers

Then those believers of the tribulation period

All of these will gain eternal life

All of the spirits of unbelievers will then be called to judgment and the loss of eternal life

What about water?

What about these?

Eze 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to Sheol with them that descend into the pit; and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, were comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to Sheol, to the uttermost parts of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall gaze at thee, they shall consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Hey stephen,

When you say the Body of christ, do mean the First resurrection

Revelation

20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

peace in jesus name

Hey researcher,

Eze 31 chapter, I understand what you are saying, of course we do need water, that was the assyria Glory


Those scriptures are headed towards the second death, that talking about the end time, the war.

and if you read the beginning of Isaiah 14 chapter it talk about the restoration of israel, future time.

This goes into that thread I got on Israel out there. (are the true Israelities Black people)

peace in jesus name

Genesis 2

2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Is that the water you talking about, Researcher

peace un jesus name

John 8:56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."

True death is eternal seperation from God.
whether with the Lord or without the Lord,
you are aware of your surroundings.
..................................................benny

I of course will not speak for Stephen, but I do pray, that he believes that the first will be last and the last first.

Even the second death occurs before those resurrected unto eternal life.

Love IN Christ - Christ IN -- MM

And spirit...without the spirit in man(kind) we would not be what we are.

Jesus said that in Luke 13

13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

But we got to keep in mind that the first resurrection is for the saints

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Revelation 14:12)

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

peace in jesus name

it seems that we have been lied to or some one needs to go over their bible it sucks to be a human and it sucks to be a parent no matter how you see what is put in this post for your self others wil have their own interpretation

you either do your best not to offend god say nothing or educate your kids the best way you can prepare them and tell them if they dont obey God hell is the place god wil send them how do we educate we do this very simple we dont bash them over the head we dont send them to a doom and gloom preacher we let the bible speak for it self and its up to them if they believe with out us parents preaching on fear our kids decide if they believe or dont believe and i know pastors who have kids who are unsaved and dont attend church and i have talked to pastors kids who hate what their parents stand for to were some have left home and cut off all contac with there parents

my pastors kids al atended church except his 7th child he refused to listen to his parents and his brothers and sisters he is only know a born again christian he gave his heart to the lord at the age of 28 and him and his new wife and their kids are all comming to church every sunday they sit at the front ther new born child was welcomed also into gods family from the age of 6 he said to me he fought his parents and hated going to church soon as he turned 12 he turned to the streets he hanged out with his mates and often ran away from home

come on you experts put your self in a pastors shoes and tell me how it would feel having your own child reject what you believe in what wil you do wil you turn to god and pray over your child or wil you let your own child suffer in hell

i am standing in the gap for my 11yr old his mother my x wife is refusing to go to church and is putting her foot down she does not let my son talk to any christian child in the public school he goes to she does not even alow him to sit in on scripture classes or does she alow him to attend the youth group their is a good church not far from her when i have my son stay with me i have to abide by the family court order she stated i am not to take him to church with me i had to sign before i was alowed to have my own child stay with me i get my son threw the school holidays and when he wants to stay with me

would you fight or would you cave in and let your child suffer knowing you know were non believers go ?

i stand in the gap for my child my church is praying and so is my fiancee and our members i am believing that my son wil give his heart to the lord and stand up to his mother he knows i am a christian he knows i wil be living over seas and he knows i am being raised to pastor a church


what about Poor Adam And Eve were are they are Adam and Eve in heaven or are they roasting in hell did god forgive Adam and Eve or did he send them to a place of torment ?

if we are created after his image why would God hold back vital information and leave us to figure it out for our selves why would god sit back and let us live out our lives and when the time comes for us to leave our earthly bodies would he be such a mean god to were he says here is your place of rest enjoy DO NOT PASS GO DO NOT COLLECT $200 YOU DO NOT GET A FREE PASS OUT OF JAIL BUT YOU GO STRAIGHT TO HELL




The Great White Throne of Judgment



In Revelation 20 v 5 John writes that the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished Here John makes a clear distinction between the first resurrection which occurs at christs second coming verses 4 to 6 and second ressurection which takes place at the end of christs millennial reign the first resurrection is to eternal life By contrast God raises those in the second resurrection to a physical flesh and blood existance


John discusses this same second resurrection to physical life Ezekiel wrote about then i saw a great white throne and him who sat on it from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away And there was found no place for them And i saw the dead small and great standing before God and books were opened And another book was opened which is the book of life And the dead were judged according to their works by the things which were written in the books The sea gave up the dead who were in it and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them And they were all judged each one according to his works verses 11 to 13


The dead who stand before their creator are all those who died never knowing the true God like Ezekiels vision of dry bones coming back to life these people emerge from their graves and begin to know their God the books biblia in GREEK from which we get the word Bible are the scriptures the only source of the knowledge of eternal life ?

or do we fear mans revelation and listen to mans wisdom on this sticky subject that really never gets answered honestly when you have mans own revelation and mans own interpretation no wonder we have bitter people who reject god to were they end up just living out the rest of their lives never experiancing god the way they should have why men and mans wisdom does not draw his hearers closser to god what mans wisdom and mans own revelation and interpretation does is this it draws his hearers away from God




John 5 English standard version

28 Do not marvel at this for an hour is comming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice

29 and come out those who have done good to the resurrection of life and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment



When challanged by religous leaders peter made the point that the only way to salvation is through jesus christ paul points out that our resurrection can take place because God first resurrected Jesus christ unless Jesus was resurrected before us we HAVE NO HOPE


Acts 4 English standerd version

12 And there is salvation in no one else for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved


1 Corinthians 15 English standard version


12 Now if christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead how can some of you say that their is no resurrection of the dead ?

13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead then not even Christ has been raised

14 And if Christ has not been raised then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain

15 We are even found to be misrepresenting God because we testified about God that he raised christ whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised

16 For if the dead are not raised not even christ has been raised

17 And if Christ has not been raised your faith is futile and you are still in your sins

18 Then those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished

19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only we are of all people most to be pitied

20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep

21 For as by a man came death by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead

22 For as in Adam all die so also in Christ shall all be made alive

23 But each in his own order Christ the firstfruits then at his coming those who belong to Christ

24 Then comes the end when he delivers the kingdom to God the father after destroying every ruler and every authority and power

25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet

26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death

27 For God has put all things in subjection under his feet But when he says all things are put in subjection it is plain that he is expected who put all things in subjection under him

28 When all things are subjected to him the son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him that God may be all in all

29 Otherwise what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead ? if the dead are not raised at all why are people baptized on their behalf ?

30 Why are we in danger every hour ?

31 I protest my brothers by my pride in you which i have in Christ Jesus our lord i die every day

32 What do i gain if i humanly speaking fought with beasts at Ephesus ? if the dead are not raised Let us eat and drink for tommorow we die

33 Do not be decieved Bad company ruins good morals

34 Wake up from your drunken stupor as is right and do not go on sinning for some have no knowledge of God I say this to your shame

35 But someone wil ask how are the dead raised ? with what kind of body do they come ?


36 You foolish person what you sow does not come to life unlesss it dies

37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be but a bare kernel perhaps of wheat or some other grain


38 But God gives it a body as he has chosen and to each kind of seed its own body

39 For not all flesh is the same but their is one kind for humans another for animals another for birds and another for fish

40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind and the glory of the earthly is another kind

41 There is one glory of the son and another glory of the moon and another glory of the stars for star differs from star in glory

42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead what is sown is perishable what is raised imperishable

43 It is sown in dishonor it is raised in glory It is sown in weakness it is raised in power


49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven

50 I tell you this brothers flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable


51 Behold i tell you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we shall be changed

52 In a moment in the twinkling 0f an eye at the last trumpet for the trumpet will sound and the dead wil be raised imperishable and we shall be changed


55 O death where is your victory o death where is your sting ?

56 The sting of death is sin and the power of sin is the law

57 But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our lord jesus christ

58 therefore my beloved brothers be steadfast immovable always abounding in the work of the lord knowing that in the lord your labor is not in vain


before the fall in the garden adam and eve lived a good life their were no laws given to them the laws that we read and know came after the fall why then did not god when he first created adam did he not give adam what he gave to moses to pass on to the israelits ?

Adam and eve lived you can say quiet well until satan came into the picture to were he tempted eve and then abel got killed cain got angry and then we read how moses encountered god to were god told moses you are standing on holy ground read the book of Genesis your self to see were i am coming from


the only instructions that were given to adam before god created eve out of adams ribs were this

Genesis 2 Enlgish standard version

7 then the lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and the man became a living creature

8 And the lord God planted a garden in Eden in the east and there he put the man who he had formed


15 The lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it

16 And the lord God commanded the man saying you may surely eat of every tree of the garden

17 but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die



Damo

our human body as we know it will rot this is what happens when you are layed to rest in the coffin your family has payed for and the instructions you left them

hear is my question to this topic were do born again christians go who believe in having their earthly bodys cremated ? do they laps in a time zone or do they go to hell

my friend who died of cancer in 2007 was a strong god fearing women who loved god loved her husband loved stranger and opened up her home and had strangers living with them they did this with me in her wil she said she wanted to be cremated due to the cost of a coffin she opted and put money away so her husband is not left paying off the bill to be cremated

if you have the answer to where do the dead go then this should not be hard for you to respond to what i have left hear this is not a trap and i dont want to hear i have an evil spirit in me that has taken over like what ozell left me i am a brother even though we might not agree we are brothers in the lord are we not ?




1 Timothy 2 English standard version


3 This is good and it is pleasing in the sight of God our saviour

4 Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

5 For their is one God and their is one mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus



who is God desiring to be saved is it the Israelits is it us Gentiles remember the elect are the israelits thes are the ones who will get killed when satan is let loose and the israelits are the ones who wil take the gospel in the last days hitler tried to wipe out the jews but failed a time wil come when this wil be tried again

i am sensing this in my spirit that we who are alive will wittness what my grandfather wittnessed and read in the paper when hitler was wiping out the jews this wil be tried again

this is what i have been looking at


Revelation 1 English standard version

7 Behold a time is coming with the clouds and every eye will see him even those who pierced him and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him

i am right now joting things down wanting to get a reponce and some light with out taking anything out of contex like i see happening in this forum when it comes to our own revelations and interpretation of what we pressent to the members of this forum you want to be care full you dont turn your hearers away from god you want to draw your hearers dont take anything out of contex and twist it

if you have worked in a funeral parlor like i have were you pick up dead bodies to prepare them you wil know what i am talking about your earthly body as you know it decays and all that is left is your earthly bodies bones

if you have burried a cat or a dog that was a family pet dig up its grave if you dare and take a look for your self

do you think that when you die your earthly body stays in tac with all its parts ? once the coffin is shut and your funeral is over and you are layed to rest your body starts to decay


even though it says we wil be given a new body our old earthly body does not exist so were does the soul go does it stay in the coffin ? or does it wander this earth ? were does the soul of a cremated christian go to does it stay in the ferness or does it wander were its ashes are layed

people have layed ther dead relatives ashes in the sea near the mountains ther favorit spot they liked or in there garden in their back yard or the country they were born in

i was looking at being burried in yugoslavia but i did not want to put my family into debt this earthly body of mine is no longer mine once i die the spirit departs my earthly body all my wife and our kids and their grand kids wil have off me is memories while i have no memories of them my earthly body wil be burried in the philippines were my wifes family are buried they have a family plot were family members are burried its been in the family for ages


so how about we dig deep in this topic of bro tans and not just look at doom and gloom scriptures i am willing to go deep if you are game let the spirit guide you not your own interpretation or your own revelation




Damo

There is a little confusion about the first and second resurrection here.

The first ressurrection talks about Jesus' bride, the 144,000 who will go to heaven and co rule with him

The second ressurrection talks about the dead who will awake during the 1000 years reign to be retaught by Christ's heavenly kingdom of the 144,000 teachers.
Their reward of eternal life or death would be given to them from the Book of Life after 1000 year reign if they learned anything within that time span

when do this happen?

where is this in scriptures?

Jesus said

Jn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

so how did they get to heaven?




where do you see 144,000 teachers?




???

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Let’s go to the Prophet Job and see if he knows anything about this subject.


Job 14:1
Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.



2
He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not. Remember what Solomon said?

Let's take another look. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. Job said basically, "Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble". Each day you walk with God there is a war going on within your mind. Trying your best to keep this flesh body under control, trying to walk in the Lord's law, that is the trouble you encounter. If some one says it is easy that's a lie. You must walk in his power (His Word), to stay strong. You have a powerful adversary, and who is that? You.

Pay close attention!



Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

11
As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:



12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep."

Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II

Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth.

Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?.

When David said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep," he knew exactly what he was talking about. Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." When will they awake?

I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised. Look like the Prophets and the Apostles are consistent. We move to the book of Revelation. This set of verses may sound contradictory, and if they are, we might as well throw the Bible out the back door. So far we have found out that the dead are still in the grave, they have no thoughts, no wisdom and knowledge. We also found that the heavens will be no more.

When people die they go to heaven.......No mystery in that...

Which heaven do they go to?

Show me some scriptures on that.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:3)

peace in jesus name

Elijah was taken to heaven or was he taken to a place of torment bro tan ? read 2 kings 2 v 11 and this happend way before gods son walked this earth or was Elijah taken to heaven when gods son was walking this earth

YOU SAID BRO TAN BY LEAVING JOHN 3 V 3 THAT NO MAN HAS ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN

I AM LEAVING YOU SCRIPTURE SHOWING YOU Elijah WAS TAKEN TO HEAVEN

moses was taken to heaven michael and satan were fighting over moses body

Jude 1 English standard version

9 But when the arch angel michael contedning with the devil was disputing about the body of moses he did not persume to pronounce a blasphemous Judgment but said the Lord Rebuke you



2 kings 2 English standard version

11 And as they stil went on and talked behold chariots of fire and horses of fire seperated two of them And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven


paul talks about a third heaven



2 Corinthians 12 English standard version


1 I must go on boasting though their is nothing to be gained by it i will go on to visions and revelations of the lord

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was cought up to the third heaven whether in the body or out of the body i do not know God knows

3 And i know that this man was cought up into paradise whether in the body or out ot the body i do not know God knows

4 And he heard things that cannot be told which man may not utter

5 On behalf of this man i will boast but on my own behalf i will not boast except of my weakness



are you bro tan telling us you know were a person goes when paul says he wil only boast of his weakness


i will let the book call you out one of your mates who thinks like you is using this against us and has said to me i have an evil spirit which made me laugh i tried to exercise this evil spirit and you know what happend nothing i have gods spirit guiding me not an evil spirit guiding me like your mate suggested


why was michael the arch angel fighting with satan over moses body where was moses going when he died was he going to heaven or was he going to hell was satan wanting to take moses body to hell ?

were does a soul go once its earthly body passes on bro tan ?



Acts 7 English standard version

55 But he full of the holy spirit gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God

56 And he said behold i see the heavens opened and the son of man standing at the right hand of God

57 But they cried out with a loud voice and stopped their ears and rushed together at him

58 Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul

59 And as they were stoning stephen he called out Lord Jesus receive my spirit

60 And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice lord do not hold this sin against them and when he had said this he fell asleep


your not going deep bro tan what you are doing is playing around giving us the law to what happens if we disobey god


hay hear is something paul said




Acts 13 English standard version


39 AND BY HIM EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IS FREED FROM EVERYTHING FROM WHICH YOU COULD NOT BE FREED BY THE LAW OF MOSES


its in the bible bro tan these are pauls own words bro tan not my own words bro tan



so bro tan were do we all go ?


i have given you scripture where did stephen go when he fell asleep bro tan ?





Damo

You tell me, Damo7

you tell me bro tan this is your topic this is what you believe in so i suggest you tell me




1 Timothy 4 English standard version


1 Now the spirit expressly says that in later times some wil depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons

2 Through the insincerity of Liars whose consciences are seared

3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanks giving by those who believe the truth

4 for everything created by God is good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving


you said to nightmare give me scripture when he answered your question i am sencing you cant do this bro tan

if you tend to leave what you believe in this forum be ready to be drilled and be ready to respond when questioned

as i said you are quoting the law bro tan knowing the law will not give you a free pass



Colossians 4 English standard version

6 let your speech always be gracious seasoned with salt so that you may know how you ought to answer each person




1 Thessalonians 5 English standard version


19 Do not quench the holy spirit

20 Do not despice prophecies

21 But test everything hold fast what is good




Damo

Sorry Damo7, I've been down this rode with you already

peace in jesus name

Pay very close attention to John, he's letting you know something very important. Once you understand what he is saying there is no contradiction.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Look at what John said, "I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God. These people must be in heaven, right? (Next verse)

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge
our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

They were talking to the Lord. (Next verse)

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

These people were told by the Lord, rest a little season. They must be in heaven? (Next)

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.Notice something, The sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood, and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together. This is the same thing David, Paul, and now John said. This must be true. What about the souls under the altar?

Let's see if we can find an example. Pay close attention here.

Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. Cain didn't bring the best that he had, if he did the Lord would have accepted Cain's offering.

Genesis 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Notice something, If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted. Remember the people in Revelation. Did they do well? Were they accepted? Yes. Now look at what the Lord says here.

Genesis 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

What did the Lord say in verse 7? "If thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.

Cain committed 2 sins, murder and baring false wittiness. These verses alone let you know that the law was in effect from the beginning.

Notice this in the next verse.

Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
When is the last time you heard someone's blood cry? Blood doesn't cry. It wasn't the blood that was crying, it was Abel's righteous acts.

Notice this in Revelation. , I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: These people were slain for the word of God, and the testimony that they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Notice it said our blood. Here is the key. What were these people given for their testimony?

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
They were given white robes.

What does this mean? Let's let the Book tell us.

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

You see it was their righteousness that cried unto the Lord . Look what Paul said.

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

That was your second witness.

Here is another example.

Proverbs 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

Let her own works praise her. By your actions you will obtain eternal life.

In Luke, the Scribes came to Jesus trying to trip Him up, by asking Him a question. Custom was that if a man die before he had an offspring, his brother would marry his wife and the first born would carry on his brother's name. They gave Jesus an example of a woman that married seven brothers, the first to the last did not have an offspring and finally the woman died. They asked Jesus who would be this woman's husband in the resurrection. Notice what the Lord said here.

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses showed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Look at verse 35, But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage. He said again as Paul, and John said. Those that are accounted worthy to obtain the world. It goes back to the righteous acts.

Notice verse 36,"Now that the dead are raised". The subject is the resurrection, he was giving them and example.

This is a place where people try to say, "See I told you when you die you float off into heaven". They make this statement without thinking. Why? If a person dies and goes to heaven or hell what is the use for the first or second resurrection, if that statement was true they have all ready been raised and judged. It would be no use for either of these. Read this carefully.

I Samuel 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

What is a familiar spirit?

I Samuel 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
Why did she "say bring up?" Samuel was a righteous guy, shouldn't she have said, Whom should I bring down?

I Samuel 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

Notice what she said, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. Shouldn't they be coming down form heaven?

I Samuel 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
If the Lord would not answer Saul why would Samuel?

16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:

18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.

19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.

Was this actually Samuel speaking to Saul through this witch?

Once again let's let the Bible speak for itself.

I Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it;

You see, the Book never contradicts itself. Samuel is in the grave until the first resurrection, along with the other righteous brethren. It was a familiar spirit that spoke through the witch; Saul done himself in. How? Look what Isaiah said here, and keep this scripture in mind when you are about to call the physic hot line.

if you are going to preach the law then you need to under stand that the law came after the fall not when adam was formed from the dust of the earth our feet tread and walk on and the law was not in full tact when cain killed Abel bro tan

god did not give adam the laws he gave to moses at mount sinai



show everyone who is comming to this post of yours were these laws were being observed after the fall and when abel and cain were born into this world ?

the Bible speaks of two great laws


1 law number 1 is the law of God the 10 commandments or the two tablets of the testimony also known as the moral law


2 Law number 2 is the law of moses or the book of the covenant also known as the mosaic law the ordinances and the ceremonial law

hear is what the reader who reads what you leave should be asking

is there a relationship between the 10 commandments and the ceremonial law ?

answer Absolutely if an Israelite sinned he broke law number 1 the moral law of the 10 commandments he then had to bring his offering according to law number 2 the sacrifical law to receive forgivness

this is the relationship between these two laws

law number 1 defines sin as sin in transgression of the moral law the 10 commandments 1 John 3 v 4


1 John 3

4 everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness sin is lawlessness


law number 2 defined sacrifices the ceremonial law which was remedy for sin


when the Israelit sinned he broke the first law to make atonement for his sin he had to obey the second law the ceremonial law can be easily identified in the scriptures

the first covenent had also the ordinances of this ceremonial sanctuary system but are gone in the new covenent know leaving only the 10 commandments which God writes in our hearts and mind



Hebrews 9 English standard version


1 Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness




Hebrews 8 English standard version

10 for this is the covenant that i will make with the house of Israel after those days declares the lord I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts and i will be their God and they shall be my people

11 And they shall not teach each one his neighbour and each one his brother saying know the lord for they shall all know me from the least of them to the greatest

12 for i wil be merciful toward their iniquites and i will remember their sins no more

and i believe the lord is doing this now bro tan this is why i dont need you teling me i need to listen to you you feel that we all need to be taught the old laws and you feel as ozell fells we dont fear the lord or do we love the lord

this is why i feel you wil not go down this road with me bro tan this is your topic i said this is what you believe and if questioned be ready to respond and answere your hearers you cant do this bro tan you cant answer your hearers you skip certain scriptures and focus on what wil happen if we disobey god we all know what wil hapen if we disobey god but god does not get us to grovel or does he remember when he forgives he forgives and you move on

only in this forum with experts such as your self and ozell have i seen were people have to grovel i dont grovel to no one or am i a puppet i am my own man



show me from Genesis 1 were God gave adam the laws god gave to moses when moses stood on mount sinai and was asked to write the laws god gave him on to the tablets

can you do this bro tan you said these laws were in effect when cain killed abel i can show you they were not in effect when cain killed abel this is just your own revelation bro tan or own interpretation

why wil you not walk down this road you cant call your self a bible christian if you are afraid to walk down this road with me my questions are honest and are not traps same with me if a person asks me why i believe i wil tell them what i believe in and i will walk them through with out lording it over them or bashing them over the head saying if you dont believe in what i believe in you wil be thrown in the lake of fire


the lord had more regard for abel and his offering this is why cain killed Abel if the laws god gave to moses then abel would have obeyed and observed what god gave to moses

hear is what the lord said to cain


Genesis 4 English standard version

6 the lord said to cain why are you angry and why has your face fallen ?

7 If you do well wil you not be accepted ? And if you do not do well sin is crouching at the door Its desire is for you but you must rule over it

8 Cain spoke to his brother and when they were in the field Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him

9 Then the lord said to cain where is Abel your brother he said i do not know am i my brothers keeper ?


10 And the lord said what have you done the voice of your brothers blood is crying to me from the ground

11 And know you are cursed from the ground which has opened its mouth to receive your brothers blood from your hand

12 When you work the ground it shall no longer yeild to you its strength you shall be a fugitive and a wander on this earth

13 Cain said to the lord my punishment is greater then i can bear

14 Behold you have driven me today away from the ground and from your face i shal be hidden i shal be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth and whoever finds me will kill me

15 Then the lord said to him not so if anyone kills cain Vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold And the lord put a mark on cain lest any found him should attack him

the only law i see that god gave to moses is the sabbath day law in Genesis 1




Genesis 1 English standard version

31 And God saw everything that he had made and behold it was very good And there was evening and there was morning the sixth day



Genesis 2 English standard version

3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation



Exodus 20 English standard version


1 And God spoke all these words saying


8 Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy

9 six days you shall labour and do all your work

10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the lord your God on it you shall not do any work you or your son or your daughter your male servant or your female servant or your live stock or the sojourner who is within your gates

11 for in the sixth days the lord made heaven and earth the sea and all that is in them and rested on the seventh day therefore the lord blessed the seventh day and made it holy


if you call your self a bible christian you can easly respond to what i am asking bro tan with out saying you dont want to walk down this road with me show me from Genesis 1 were god gave adam the laws he gave to moses

the tree of knowledge of good and evil was in the garden adam was told not to touch one tree why god knew if man were to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil he wil be like god

only god new what was happening out side but inside the garden of eden adam and eve were being prottected until satan came into the picture hurt god and adam and eve were kicked out satan wants to destroy what ever good intentions god has for us satan wants us to curse god satan wants us to hate god he tried this with job satan tried his hardest to get job to curse god job did not budge or give in even though job lost everything his kids his live stock


you said

Cain committed two sins murder and being false witness what sin are you committing i wil let you work it out your self it starts with the letter f and ends with the letter w and the letter t

you said the law was in effect from the beginning i am letting the book call you out show me as i am asking from the book of Genesis and dont twist what god said to Cain while his brother was still breathing the air he breathed and was walking this earth

Cain acted on his own accord bro tan what you are leaving has nothing to do with a person acting on his own accord

as i said to you the laws have nothing to do with the choices a humen being makes who does not believe you cant hold an atheist responsible if he decides to be an atheist and tell an atheist you are braking the laws moses observed

if i decided to kill a man its my choice even though i know the laws and what the 10 commandments have to say

if some one comes into the night club i am working in and the head security guard gives orders and we sence the person or persons are going to harm or hurt inocent human beings as a security guard i wil act with in the laws of the land and not the laws of god i will end a persons life with out hesitation


wil god punish me when he decides its time to judge this earth and say becuase you killed a man i am sending you to the lake of fire

before you open your mouth take a look at king Davids life and read what king David did to a man who lied David also was a leader and often was in the front line with his men he killed under Gods orders

its in the bible






Damo

The dead go nowhere, are you kidding me? This doctrine Stephen shows is a Jehovah's Witness's doctrine. They know nothing and experience a time lapse. The dead saints will be returned unto an awakened state when the lord call them. Stephen, this too is false doctrine coming from your mouth. This is false doctrine to the tea. The dead saints go to heaven and await returning to earth with Christ, while the dead unsaved go to Hell, Hades, the temporary holding place of the wicked. THey are held there until the end of the millenial, where they join satan in the lake of fire.

Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. The thief died and went to paradise, immediately. He was not put in some temporal state of nothingness as you describe it, a time lapse.

When Jesus returns he brings the saints back with him as we see in I Thes 4. They are currently in Glory with God, for such Paul admonishes the living saints not to worry for the dead as those that have no hope.


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.


1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Moses was the messenger that delivered Gods Law. You can read where Moses Got the word at.

Angel simply means messenger and nothing else.

Solomon had a generous portion of the wisdom of man. Wisdom that couldn't and didn't save him.

"The Wisdom of Christ is salvation" and "The Wisdom of God".


As for the Dead? They are dead until they are resurrected back to Life at Christ's return.


At Christ's return to earth to rule for a thousand years.

"The dead go nowhere, are you kidding me?"

>I do not kidd

>You have much to learn about the truth if the scriptures on this subject

Dude this is getting easier,,,,I mean Gideon is totally destroying your concepts with scripture and then you start this crap


>Blah Blah Blah


>Blah Blah Blah


>blah blah blah



Well whatever this is how is it is to prove a joker like you wrong.......


On post number 5 of this thread you said

1---The dead go nowhere and time stops for their spirits

2---They know nothing and do not experience time lapse

3----But, all will be returned to an awakened state when the Lord calls them

----------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------- ----

1--- 7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

So you say the spirit goes nowhere,,,,,,,Ecclesiastes 12:7 says the spirit goes to God,,,and God is in heaven friend....
So you say nowhere God says Heaven.....

2----What do you mean the dead dont know nothing?????

1After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

You said they dont know nothing but here we have dead Moses and dead Elijah talking to a alive Christ.......So what were they talking about???How dead people dont know or experience nothing??????

3----returned to a awakening state????? hmmmmmmmmm Christ is bringing them back with him.....I think there already awake

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

0 for 3 you know what that means dont you

the only time this book which is called the bible contradicts its self is when man simply stuffs it up how man tends to say i am the one living on this earth i know what the bible has to say and if you dont listen to me as far as i am concerned you can go to hell

mans own revelation and mans own interpretation is al i am seeing in this thread to where do the dead go last night i was talking to i think Elvis i got my ojie board out and had a bit of fun i am sure it was some demon trying to trick me by saying he was the real deal


then i called up hitler and had a good old conversation with hitler and i said to hitler you stuffed up then when i was finished talking with hitler i called up Marolen manroe and had a good old conversation with her she told me what hell is like she told me whoes in hell she even told me what sadam husane is up to she said satan is forcing sadam husaine to eat watermelons and dress him up in a maids uniform and whips him when he feels frustrated

she said hell is a blast eat what you want do what you want haunting the living is a blast



John 7 English standard version


19 Has not Moses given you the law ? Yet none of you keeps the law Why do you seek to kill me ?


22 Moses gave you circumcision ( NOT THAT IT IS FROM MOSES BUT FROM THE FATHER ) and you circumcise a man on the sabbath

23 If on the sabbath a man receives circumcision so that the law of moses may not be broken are you angry with me because on the sabbath I made a mans whole body well ?



4 For no one works in secret if he seeks to be known openly If you do these things show yourself to the world


bro tan if you call your self a bible christian i am sure you can walk down this road with me and talk openly with me why dont you want to walk down this road with me are you afraid i am not mocking you i said i was willing to go deep but i am noticing you are preaching the law in this topic of yours and thats fine but if you are going to preach the law in this topic make it clear at the start which you have not made it clear as the topic is WHERE DO THE DEAD GO


we all know where the dead go bro tan its very simple they go to heaven and its up to god not you where he sends a person




John 8 English standard version


12 Again Jesus spoke to them saying i am the light of the world Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness but will have the light of life


yet if you want to walk in darkness take on what bro tan and ozell have to say



31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him If you abide in my word you are truly my disciples



tongiht i am going to talk to some dead presidents and may be try to conger up angus young from Ac / Dc i want to see if he has seen the rich man that was sent to hell and i want to know if any of the trouble makers who tried Jesus are in hell


its good to stil have that gift were you can conger up the dead


but i am going to be honest and say i have been toying with you if you believe what i have left hear i am no fool were i wil do that and conger up the dead like i use to when i was involved in the occult

some christians do have the gift were they are able to see demons as we see a human being and i have been in haunted houses and have seen what a demon can do this is what happens when christians dont believe in deliverance some have fallen asleep like the luke warm churches mentioned in the book of revelation

if you are ever in Australia call me up i wil take you to some old houses and i wil take you to a building i use to patrol with a guard i use to know and we wil leave you alone in the building we use to patrol we can even hang out side for 2 hrs while you are alone in the building we use to patrol and you can work it out your self i promise you though your hairs on your body wil stand at attention

we have had christians run from the building we use to patrol i had one guy weeping calling out to us to come and get him

their is this one old motel that has 5 ghosts haunting it and the owner is about to put it on the market the public who book his rooms end up leaving in the early hours of the morning cleaners dont last long and neither do the staff the manager and his wife have gotten use to the ghosts and they leave them alone i was even told bar maids have left one bar maid said she felt some one standing next to her and another bar maid said she was hit from behind one cleanner said he saw a chair floating in the midle of the room and this was at 4am

so you cant tel me the dead dont go now where

if any one is game and you are wanting to come to australia for a holday contac me you wil have a blast and as i said i wil take you on a tour and let you work it out for your self




Damo

Everyone who dies is dead.

You know what dead is if you have ever been to an open casket funeral.

They don't move and they don't talk and they have no conscientiousness.

The reason for a resurrection from the dead, is to bring those who are worthy back to life.

Christ came back to life from death and then ascended into heaven alive.

Christ did not die and go to heaven.

Stephen say's:



The Scripture Say's:

Matthew 27:51-53
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Although Jesus preached the gospel not the law this does not mean that the law had passed away and the gospel was in full force during Jesus ministry jesus said clearly that the law would not pass in any detail until all of it was fulfilled matthew 5 v 17 - 19


Matthew 5 English standard version


17 Do not think that i have come to abolish the law or the prophets I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them

18 For truly I say to you until heaven and earth pass away not an iota not a dot will pass from the law until it is all accomplished

19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of these least commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven


it was fulfilled at the cross The gospel declared a time for the law of moses to cease namely at the crucifixion of Christ



Colossians 2 English standard version

14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands This he set aside nailing it to the cross


we are not moses disciples we do not follow moses teaching we are Jesus disciples we follow his teachings we are his followers that means we are not to look to the past we are to avoid becomming old testament believers you are a new testament believer


After Jesus death christians could practise what Jesus taught in place of the the law of moses because Christ has become our high priest in heaven and his gospel is now our new covenant



Hebrews 9 English standard version


11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come than through the greater and more perfect tent ( not made with hands that is not of this creation )

12 He entered once for all into the holy places not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood thus securing an eternal redemption

13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer sanctify for the purification of the flesh

14 how much more will the blood of Christ who through the eternal spirit offered himself without blemish to God purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God

15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance since a death has occured that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant

16 For where a will is involved the death of the one who made it must be established


17 For a will takes effect only at death since it is not inforce as long as the one who made it is alive


18 Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood

19 For when every commandment of the law had been declared by moses to all the people he took the blood of the calves and goats with water and scarlet wool hyssop and sprinkled both the book its self and all the people

24 For Christ has has entered not into holy places made with hands which are copies of the true things but into heaven itself now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf



Dont let bro tan deceive you or trap you into thinking that the old law is still active and we as his followers have to follow the old law by observing the old laws wil not get you a free pass into heaven it got the pharisees and sadducees and the chief priests and the scribes no where

now listen to what this righteous lot had to say in the gospel of John



John 9 English standard version


16 some of the pharisees said this man is not from God for he does not keep the sabbath But others said How can a man who is a sinner do such signs And their was a division among th