Christian-Forum.net > Should A Christian Vote?

BFSmith

Oct 16 2008, 08:13 PM

________________________________________

God had called Abram to physically come out of the country of his birth

Genesis 12:1 (KJV)
Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

Abram or as God later changed his name to Abraham, could not participate in his old country's political system, because he was told by God to get out from his country. He was not their to do so even if he wanted to.

Acts 7:3 (KJV)
And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.

Abraham was not looking to go back or even to another country of this world. Because he not just physically left his home land he also spiritually came out of this world.

Hebrews 11:10 (KJV)
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Hebrews 11:9-10 (KJV)
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

They all renounce their rights and privileges of their former country/ancestry and embraced a far better one by faith

Hebrews 11:14-16 (KJV)
For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Even Moses gave up all that he had in Egypt for God's sake

Hebrews 11:25-27 (KJV)
Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

The people of God would rather suffer than renounce their new citizenship; they were like a people without a country

Hebrews 11:37-40 (KJV)
They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

An ambassador is one that represents the country of his birth in another country. An ambassador does not participate in the country's political system where he is representing his country. Hebrews 11:37-40 is not saying that the people of God are to be poor, that is not the point of my argument. In fact scriptures would show that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and even Job for example were wealthy men. Being a pilgrim or a sojourner does not mean that one has to be poor.

2 Cor. 5:20 (KJV)
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Ephes. 6:20 (KJV)
For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Ambassadors: presbeuo,pres-byoo'-o; from the base of Greek (presbuteros); to be a senior, i.e. (by implication) act as a representative (figurative preacher) :- be an ambassador.

Born again; born from above

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The people of God must live in this world but not be a part of its ways or system. Some things can seem right or even innocent but one could easily get caught up in sin.

Proverbs 14:12 (KJV)
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Proverbs 16:25 (KJV)
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Rev. 18:4 (KJV)
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Our kingdom is not in this world

John 18:36 (KJV)
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 17:14 (KJV)
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:16 (KJV)
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Ephes. 2:19 (KJV)
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Luke 10:20 (KJV)
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

If Jesus wanted His people to change or make the system a just or better one He would have refused to pay the tribute the system which they expected all but those who were not family members to pay. But instead of protesting He went along so as not to offend them. Neither Jesus nor the early Church ever seeks to change or impose its belief on those who were not believers.

Matthew 17:25-27 (KJV)
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Our kingdom will come to this world at the return of Jesus the Christ

Rev. 11:15 (KJV)
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

This is Satan's world

2 Cor. 4:4 (KJV)
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Strangers on the earth

Hebrews 11:13 (KJV)
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

1 Peter 2:11 (KJV)
Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

For a child of God to participate in the political system of this world it would ultimately conflicts with their citizenship of the kingdom of God, and he or she is bound to betray one or the other.

Matthew 6:24 (KJV)
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Luke 16:13 (KJV)
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

The word that is translated "Church" means in Greek "a calling out" or "the called out ones". Therefore, if someone called you outside of a meeting, work or conversation for example, then you are no longer participating in what is going on in side, until you decide to go back in.

What does the word Church mean?

Acts 20:28 (KJV)
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Church: ekklesia,ek-klay-see'-ah; from a compound of Greek (ek) and a derivative of Greek (kaleo); a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both) :- assembly, church.

My comment

While there are no scriptures in the Bible that as a command says, "You shall not vote" or "The people of God should vote". There are scriptures that gives us examples of people of God who were willing to give up the rights and privileges of the nation of their birth for the sake of their new citizenship. Nothing is worth more than what God is so graciously offering us.

Romans 8:18 (KJV)
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Our loyalty first and foremost is to the kingdom of God, but it does not mean that we should not care about the people and country or the world in which we live.

Romans 12:18 (KJV)
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Galatians 6:10 (KJV)
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

The people of God are to be the most caring and loving people of the world

Romans 12:20 (KJV)
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

We are to care about the environment because the Bible gave us examples of that

John 6:12-13 (KJV)
When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost. Therefore they gathered them together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten.

Mark 8:8 (KJV)
So they did eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets.

Genesis 2:15 (KJV)
And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Keep: shamar,shaw-mar'; a primitive root; properly to hedge about (as with thorns), i.e. guard; generally to protect, attend to, etc. :- beware, be circumspect, take heed (to self), keep (-er, self), mark, look narrowly, observe, preserve, regard, reserve, save (self), sure, (that lay) wait (for), watch (-man).

The Bible is full of countless ways were a child of God can fulfill the will of God, and there by do a world of good far more than the simple act of voting. It is God who set up and removes kings/nations.

Daniel 4:17 (KJV)
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

Basest: shephal,shef-al'; (Chaldee); from Hebrew (shephal); low :- basest.

Daniel 4:25 (KJV)
That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

But we have no way of knowing when, how, whom and for what purpose (except that we know it will be to fulfill His divine plane) He will set up or remove. We could even be fighting against God's will, because the person or party that we may be voting for to be in power may not be God's will. But it is far easier to know what God expect of us, through his word.

It is because we are citizens of the kingdom of God why we do good to all people, while not allowing our selves to be corrupt by the things of the world.

James 1:27 (KJV)
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world

Jake William

Oct 17 2008, 03:56 PM

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 16 2008, 06:13 PM)

________________________________________

God had called Abram to physically come out of the country of his birth

Genesis 12:1 (KJV)
Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

Abram or as God later changed his name to Abraham, could not participate in his old country's political system, because he was told by God to get out from his country. He was not their to do so even if he wanted to.

Acts 7:3 (KJV)
And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.

Abraham was not looking to go back or even to another country of this world. Because he not just physically left his home land he also spiritually came out of this world.

Hebrews 11:10 (KJV)
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Hebrews 11:9-10 (KJV)
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

They all renounce their rights and privileges of their former country/ancestry and embraced a far better one by faith

Hebrews 11:14-16 (KJV)
For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Even Moses gave up all that he had in Egypt for God's sake

Hebrews 11:25-27 (KJV)
Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

The people of God would rather suffer than renounce their new citizenship; they were like a people without a country

Hebrews 11:37-40 (KJV)
They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

An ambassador is one that represents the country of his birth in another country. An ambassador does not participate in the country's political system where he is representing his country. Hebrews 11:37-40 is not saying that the people of God are to be poor, that is not the point of my argument. In fact scriptures would show that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and even Job for example were wealthy men. Being a pilgrim or a sojourner does not mean that one has to be poor.

2 Cor. 5:20 (KJV)
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Ephes. 6:20 (KJV)
For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Ambassadors: presbeuo,pres-byoo'-o; from the base of Greek (presbuteros); to be a senior, i.e. (by implication) act as a representative (figurative preacher) :- be an ambassador.

Born again; born from above

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The people of God must live in this world but not be a part of its ways or system. Some things can seem right or even innocent but one could easily get caught up in sin.

Proverbs 14:12 (KJV)
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Proverbs 16:25 (KJV)
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Rev. 18:4 (KJV)
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Our kingdom is not in this world

John 18:36 (KJV)
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 17:14 (KJV)
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:16 (KJV)
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Ephes. 2:19 (KJV)
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Luke 10:20 (KJV)
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

If Jesus wanted His people to change or make the system a just or better one He would have refused to pay the tribute the system which they expected all but those who were not family members to pay. But instead of protesting He went along so as not to offend them. Neither Jesus nor the early Church ever seeks to change or impose its belief on those who were not believers.

Matthew 17:25-27 (KJV)
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Our kingdom will come to this world at the return of Jesus the Christ

Rev. 11:15 (KJV)
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

This is Satan's world

2 Cor. 4:4 (KJV)
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Strangers on the earth

Hebrews 11:13 (KJV)
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

1 Peter 2:11 (KJV)
Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

For a child of God to participate in the political system of this world it would ultimately conflicts with their citizenship of the kingdom of God, and he or she is bound to betray one or the other.

Matthew 6:24 (KJV)
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Luke 16:13 (KJV)
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

The word that is translated "Church" means in Greek "a calling out" or "the called out ones". Therefore, if someone called you outside of a meeting, work or conversation for example, then you are no longer participating in what is going on in side, until you decide to go back in.

What does the word Church mean?

Acts 20:28 (KJV)
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Church: ekklesia,ek-klay-see'-ah; from a compound of Greek (ek) and a derivative of Greek (kaleo); a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both) :- assembly, church.

My comment

While there are no scriptures in the Bible that as a command says, "You shall not vote" or "The people of God should vote". There are scriptures that gives us examples of people of God who were willing to give up the rights and privileges of the nation of their birth for the sake of their new citizenship. Nothing is worth more than what God is so graciously offering us.

Romans 8:18 (KJV)
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Our loyalty first and foremost is to the kingdom of God, but it does not mean that we should not care about the people and country or the world in which we live.

Romans 12:18 (KJV)
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Galatians 6:10 (KJV)
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

The people of God are to be the most caring and loving people of the world

Romans 12:20 (KJV)
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

We are to care about the environment because the Bible gave us examples of that

John 6:12-13 (KJV)
When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost. Therefore they gathered them together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten.

Mark 8:8 (KJV)
So they did eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets.

Genesis 2:15 (KJV)
And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Keep: shamar,shaw-mar'; a primitive root; properly to hedge about (as with thorns), i.e. guard; generally to protect, attend to, etc. :- beware, be circumspect, take heed (to self), keep (-er, self), mark, look narrowly, observe, preserve, regard, reserve, save (self), sure, (that lay) wait (for), watch (-man).

The Bible is full of countless ways were a child of God can fulfill the will of God, and there by do a world of good far more than the simple act of voting. It is God who set up and removes kings/nations.

Daniel 4:17 (KJV)
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

Basest: shephal,shef-al'; (Chaldee); from Hebrew (shephal); low :- basest.

Daniel 4:25 (KJV)
That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

But we have no way of knowing when, how, whom and for what purpose (except that we know it will be to fulfill His divine plane) He will set up or remove. We could even be fighting against God's will, because the person or party that we may be voting for to be in power may not be God's will. But it is far easier to know what God expect of us, through his word.

It is because we are citizens of the kingdom of God why we do good to all people, while not allowing our selves to be corrupt by the things of the world.

James 1:27 (KJV)
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world

Agreed, a Christian should let the world vote, not those who are separate from the world. Jesus did say, "My kingdom is not of this world." Each and everyone of us have to decide, "is the governemnt secular in nature or Christian?" We are a democracy, not a God appointed theocracy. I'm not in favor of voting for secularism. My patriotism is not of this country, but in Heaven. My citizenship IS in heaven.

You probably will not get much response to this thread. Why? Because most do not understand the "role of church and state" in the scripture, not understanding prophetic interpretation and how it will have a culminating effect in the last days according to God's word. May our prayers be directed to this forum of beautiful people, who God loves very much!

take care,
Jake

Gideon7620

Oct 17 2008, 04:02 PM

We are the salt of the earth, so you decide.

researcher

Oct 17 2008, 04:04 PM

QUOTE

Should A Christian Vote?

If they want to keep their freedom to worship as they choose (amongst other things), probably.

raysondawn

Oct 17 2008, 04:39 PM

There are three examples of voting in the gospels and New testament.

The first is when Israel voted between Jesus and Barrabas. Barrabas won the election by a landslide.

The second time is when the Apostles voted to replace Judas when they were just supposed to be waiting for the Holy Spirit.
They chose Matthias who is never heard from again in the New Testament.

The third time was when the majority voted to set sail when Paul was urging to not depart at the time. Paul lost the election and they lost their ship.

The scripture says "in the mouth of two and three witnesses shall every word be established".

I guess we know what the mind of God is on voting.

Three strikes!
YER OUT!

As many as are led by the spirit of God these are the sons of God.
So when you are standing in line to vote and there is a drunk, a sodomite, adulterers, fornicators, and thieves all in the same line and voting for the same person can we say we are being led by the spirit of God? Who is leading the faggot to vote for your man?
No, God did not tell any of us to go and vote. Your grandmas dead cat or the tooth fairy may have told us to vote but God did not!

Good comment Jake!
People actually think that Paul was beheaded in Rome for preaching obedience to Caesar in Romans 13!
Yeah Right!

HeIsFaithful

Oct 17 2008, 05:01 PM

i have been considering this.. and even asking the Lord (tho, I will admit, I haven't sought Him deeply in this matter) .. nonetheless,i canNOT find peace when I say to myself, I will vote for McCain (obama is NOT an option - I have always voted pro-life) .. but having determined to draw closer to the Lord this past year.. as I said.. i canNOT - or - do NOT have peace about voting period..

1) I am torn between letting the world do what it will .. (while I will not)

then.. I wonder if I am shirking my responsibility .. and saying I won't vote so that the world (and the one who "rules" it i.e. Satan) can have it's/his way.. and that will bring the endtime events even faster..

but! even as I type this.. I know in my heart, that my vote will NOT cause the Lord to bring about things in anything other than HIS OWN time

hmmmm....

re: the examples of voting that raysondawn stated.. i can see that not one of them relate to voting for someone to rule over them in the physical sense.
which leads me back to my 1st thought of not voting..

but we ARE the salt of the earth.. maybe ? standing up for what I believe is right, can and will make a difference.. but then I just LOL .. like signet has said.. dem .. repub.. they're both simply different sides of the same coin..

plus! I have this deep feeling that it is NOT the voters who decide.. there are "powers" that be, who control it..

OY VEY!!!

still leaning MORE towards NOT voting..
and am waiting for that little nagging feeling that I should, to go away..

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........

damo7

Oct 17 2008, 05:45 PM

the jahova wittnesses dont vote they say its against their religon and have given biblical verses stating their excuse to be put of the list

hear in my country if you dont vote you get first a warning and let off and then if you dont listen to the warning you get fined $50 your name is on a list and if you dont turn up to vote they tick absent and you get sent a letter

we al pay tax dont we ? jesus payed tax didnt he ?

i think its a personal choice i hate voting my self every time you turn up to vote you are standing in line and some times can be standing up to an hour weighting for the line to move to were you get clcosser to the dudes so you can just vote and go home

what i hate hear in Australia they do the state and fedral ellections just as you plan to go visit a family member or are given holidays and you plan to go away you are alaways having to give up what you want to do just to please these stupid polaticans

all last week there have been adds on our tv and people handing out leaf lets about the candidate in your local area telling you who they are what they are going to do but you never see the ones who want in walking the streets talking to the public oh you see them on tv making fun of the other party thats all you see them telling you how they have let you down

right now the librals are arguing fighting among them selves and two leaders have been told to step down since john howard got voted out and the labor party one and kevin rud voted in as prime minister for australia the librals have been falling appart peter costello does not want the top job but he was whinning when john howard did not step down at a ripe old age of 64 to let peter costello run it was all in the papers and they want our vote to keep them in office i call them a bunch off bums who do no good for our country but i vote just to keep them off my back

its a personal choice i am not sure if you get fined in your part of the world you live in but in australia if you dont vote you get as i said a warning first and then fined

Damo

BFSmith

Oct 17 2008, 05:50 PM

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 04:04 PM)

QUOTE

Should A Christian Vote?

If they want to keep their freedom to worship as they choose (amongst other things), probably.

Anyone who believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person does not know God. There is no guarantee that voting will prevent someone from not respecting my God given right to do as God leads me to do, but I know that God will provide me with the strength and the will to do His will, even if others want to prevent me from doing it. So Even if worshiping God became illegal that still would not stop me from doing it, because I am not beholden to any government or man to do what they want me to do against God’s will.

researcher

Oct 17 2008, 06:01 PM

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 03:50 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 04:04 PM)

QUOTE

Should A Christian Vote?

If they want to keep their freedom to worship as they choose (amongst other things), probably.

Anyone who believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person does not know God.
There is no guarantee that voting will prevent someone from not respecting my God given right to do as God leads me to do, but I know that God will provide me with the strength and the will to do His will, even if others want to prevent me from doing it. So Even if worshiping God became illegal that still would not stop me from doing it, because I am not beholden to any government or man to do what they want me to do against God’s will.

I guess I don't know God then. Lol.

Although you raise a good point, God is the one in control. Of course, since God is in control, we all might as well stop being involved in the world at all since God will just get done what he wants with or without us. If you see some old lady being mugged, don't step in to help... God is in control. Lol.

HeIsFaithful

Oct 17 2008, 06:12 PM

but.. but... but...

I keep trying to picture the disciples standing in line to vote.. (not that I mind standing in line.. and usually, I don't have to

.. but nonetheless..

i see them, rather, as being about the Father's business..

and somehow, I don't think that the old lady being mugged is applicable here.. I'm not terribly smart.. sooo maybe? somebody can point it out??

and.. regarding the point that BF made: believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person ..
I didn't think that was the point.. tho, it is a valid thing to point out, in the case that some might believe that..

but? maybe? with the right supreme court judges, roe v wade would be overturned.. but that too, I know, could be changed by winning souls .. sooo back to - being about the Father's business..

BFSmith

Oct 17 2008, 06:23 PM

QUOTE (HeIsFaithful @ Oct 17 2008, 05:01 PM)

plus! I have this deep feeling that it is NOT the voters who decide.. there are "powers" that be, who control it..

OY VEY!!!

still leaning MORE towards NOT voting..
and am waiting for that little nagging feeling that I should, to go away..

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........

And right you are, voting is an illusion that you actually have the power to decide who gets into office. Yes there are people and powers in high places that decide long before a poling booth is set up who will be elected….they will have their way, with or with out an election, as long as God permits them of course.

BFSmith

Oct 17 2008, 06:28 PM

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:01 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 03:50 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 04:04 PM)

QUOTE

Should A Christian Vote?

If they want to keep their freedom to worship as they choose (amongst other things), probably.

Anyone who believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person does not know God.
There is no guarantee that voting will prevent someone from not respecting my God given right to do as God leads me to do, but I know that God will provide me with the strength and the will to do His will, even if others want to prevent me from doing it. So Even if worshiping God became illegal that still would not stop me from doing it, because I am not beholden to any government or man to do what they want me to do against God’s will.

I guess I don't know God then. Lol.

Although you raise a good point, God is the one in control. Of course, since God is in control, we all might as well stop being involved in the world at all since God will just get done what he wants with or without us. If you see some old lady being mugged, don't step in to help... God is in control. Lol.

That's not what I am saying; I speaking about who ultimatly decides who will hold political office. Is it God or is it us?

researcher

Oct 17 2008, 06:34 PM

QUOTE (HeIsFaithful @ Oct 17 2008, 04:12 PM)

but.. but... but...

I keep trying to picture the disciples standing in line to vote.. (not that I mind standing in line.. and usually, I don't have to

.. but nonetheless..

i see them, rather, as being about the Father's business..

and somehow, I don't think that the old lady being mugged is applicable here.. I'm not terribly smart.. sooo maybe? somebody can point it out??

and.. regarding the point that BF made: believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person ..
I didn't think that was the point.. tho, it is a valid thing to point out, in the case that some might believe that..

but? maybe? with the right supreme court judges, roe v wade would be overturned.. but that too, I know, could be changed by winning souls .. sooo back to - being about the Father's business..

I don't know how their election system worked back then, but, you are right, they were probably too busy spreading the gospel, lol.

If someone doesn't think they should vote, I guess they shouldn't. Although, I highly doubt it's a sin to vote, lol.

On your last point, yes, if overturning Roe vs Wade is imortant to you, then, I would expect you would vote for the person who most likely would bring that about.
Overall, we're not all full time evangelists in the sense of the apostles. Everyone should do what they think is best. The sons of God are free, and, we should use judgement concerning issues of the world. We're the body of Christ on earth. Didn't Jesus say something about the sons not being as discerning as those of the world when it came to issues of the world? I forget where that verse is, lol. We should do what we think is best in each situation using discernment.

BFSmith

Oct 17 2008, 06:37 PM

QUOTE (HeIsFaithful @ Oct 17 2008, 06:12 PM)

but.. but... but...

I keep trying to picture the disciples standing in line to vote.. (not that I mind standing in line.. and usually, I don't have to

.. but nonetheless..

i see them, rather, as being about the Father's business..

and somehow, I don't think that the old lady being mugged is applicable here.. I'm not terribly smart.. sooo maybe? somebody can point it out??

No you are making perfect sense, but sometimes when some people disagree with another person some people sees the need to exaggerate the other person's argument.

researcher

Oct 17 2008, 06:45 PM

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 04:28 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:01 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 03:50 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 04:04 PM)

QUOTE

Should A Christian Vote?

If they want to keep their freedom to worship as they choose (amongst other things), probably.

Anyone who believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person does not know God.
There is no guarantee that voting will prevent someone from not respecting my God given right to do as God leads me to do, but I know that God will provide me with the strength and the will to do His will, even if others want to prevent me from doing it. So Even if worshiping God became illegal that still would not stop me from doing it, because I am not beholden to any government or man to do what they want me to do against God’s will.

I guess I don't know God then. Lol.

Although you raise a good point, God is the one in control. Of course, since God is in control, we all might as well stop being involved in the world at all since God will just get done what he wants with or without us. If you see some old lady being mugged, don't step in to help... God is in control. Lol.

That's not what I am saying; I speaking about who ultimatly decides who will hold political office. Is it God or is it us?

God. But, how does God bring it about? By people voting. He could put it into everyone's mind to vote for a certain candidate, but, if He hasn't told you not to vote, why wouldn't you? What if Hitler were up for election and all the Christians decided not to vote? I think advocating not voting is advocating complete inaction in all things. Do you choose where you send your kids to school? Are you concerned what they are being taught in school? If so, do you speak out, or, do nothing, or send them (your kids) somewhere else? I suppose that would be true of all things. We make choices about things, lol. Cuz, God gave us brains to use!

And the Spirit to follow, but, if he hasn't said not to vote, pick someone.

LOL.

BFSmith

Oct 17 2008, 07:01 PM

QUOTE (damo7 @ Oct 17 2008, 05:45 PM)

its a personal choice i am not sure if you get fined in your part of the world you live in but in australia if you dont vote you get as i said a warning first and then fined

Damo

Your story reminds me of the three Israelites who refused to bow down before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up. They refused and were cast into the furnace and because of their faith, God delivered them and caused Nebuchadnezzar to make a decree that whoever does not worship the God is Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego they would be killed and their house would be set on fire.

For them, it was more than being fined; it was their life that was at stake. Many of us claim that we trust God or that we served God but we are not willing to stand up and show by our deeds that we do. Remember that the Bible says that faith with out works is dead? I can testify about God’s protection in my life simply because I trust Him rather than be afraid of what man can do….because I know what God can do.

If many of us had that kind of faith in God's ability to protect us what a difference it would make in this world to unbelievers.

BFSmith

Oct 17 2008, 07:08 PM

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:45 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 04:28 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:01 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 03:50 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 04:04 PM)

QUOTE

Should A Christian Vote?

If they want to keep their freedom to worship as they choose (amongst other things), probably.

Anyone who believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person does not know God.
There is no guarantee that voting will prevent someone from not respecting my God given right to do as God leads me to do, but I know that God will provide me with the strength and the will to do His will, even if others want to prevent me from doing it. So Even if worshiping God became illegal that still would not stop me from doing it, because I am not beholden to any government or man to do what they want me to do against God’s will.

I guess I don't know God then. Lol.

Although you raise a good point, God is the one in control. Of course, since God is in control, we all might as well stop being involved in the world at all since God will just get done what he wants with or without us. If you see some old lady being mugged, don't step in to help... God is in control. Lol.

That's not what I am saying; I speaking about who ultimatly decides who will hold political office. Is it God or is it us?

God. But, how does God bring it about? By people voting. He could put it into everyone's mind to vote for a certain candidate, but, if He hasn't told you not to vote, why wouldn't you? What if Hitler were up for election and all the Christians decided not to vote? I think advocating not voting is advocating complete inaction in all things. Do you choose where you send your kids to school? Are you concerned what they are being taught in school? If so, do you speak out, or, do nothing, or send them (your kids) somewhere else? I suppose that would be true of all things. We make choices about things, lol. Cuz, God gave us brains to use!

And the Spirit to follow, but, if he hasn't said not to vote, pick someone.

LOL.

If it were up to Christians to vote in whom God wants in office, then how come you never see Christians all voting for the same person? The fact is that they believe that it up to them to decide whom they want. They lack the faith and trust that no matter who gets into office that parson did not get there apart from God's will....God is the ultimate decider, with or with out an election.

researcher

Oct 17 2008, 07:57 PM

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 05:08 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:45 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 04:28 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:01 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 03:50 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 04:04 PM)

QUOTE

Should A Christian Vote?

If they want to keep their freedom to worship as they choose (amongst other things), probably.

Anyone who believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person does not know God.
There is no guarantee that voting will prevent someone from not respecting my God given right to do as God leads me to do, but I know that God will provide me with the strength and the will to do His will, even if others want to prevent me from doing it. So Even if worshiping God became illegal that still would not stop me from doing it, because I am not beholden to any government or man to do what they want me to do against God’s will.

I guess I don't know God then. Lol.

Although you raise a good point, God is the one in control. Of course, since God is in control, we all might as well stop being involved in the world at all since God will just get done what he wants with or without us. If you see some old lady being mugged, don't step in to help... God is in control. Lol.

That's not what I am saying; I speaking about who ultimatly decides who will hold political office. Is it God or is it us?

God. But, how does God bring it about? By people voting. He could put it into everyone's mind to vote for a certain candidate, but, if He hasn't told you not to vote, why wouldn't you? What if Hitler were up for election and all the Christians decided not to vote? I think advocating not voting is advocating complete inaction in all things. Do you choose where you send your kids to school? Are you concerned what they are being taught in school? If so, do you speak out, or, do nothing, or send them (your kids) somewhere else? I suppose that would be true of all things. We make choices about things, lol. Cuz, God gave us brains to use!

And the Spirit to follow, but, if he hasn't said not to vote, pick someone.

LOL.

If it were up to Christians to vote in whom God wants in office, then how come you never see Christians all voting for the same person? The fact is that they believe that it up to them to decide whom they want. They lack the faith and trust that no matter who gets into office that parson did not get there apart from God's will....God is the ultimate decider, with or with out an election.

Is God's will always done on earth?

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

If so, why are we supposed to pray for it to be done? Would you ask for milk if you had it already sitting in front of you?

But, you didn't answer the more important questions. Do you choose where you send your kids to school, if you get sick and God doesn't heal you, do you go to a doctor? Do you choose the best home loan if you are buying a home? If so, why not make a choice who you want to make your tax laws, or zoning laws, or school district rules? Did God tell you not to vote?

HeIsFaithful

Oct 17 2008, 08:14 PM

wellll.. researcher...

What if Hitler were up for election and all the Christians decided not to vote? I think advocating not voting is advocating complete inaction in all things. Do you choose where you send your kids to school? Are you concerned what they are being taught in school? If so, do you speak out, or, do nothing, or send them (your kids) somewhere else? I suppose that would be true of all things.

guess this is part of the nagging reason why i can't seem to totally decide NOT to vote..

but.. like i said the other day.. no matter which way you vote.. you lose...

i guess it's just a matter of how FAST we lose..

BFSmith

Oct 17 2008, 08:16 PM

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 08:57 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 05:08 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:45 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 04:28 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:01 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 03:50 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 04:04 PM)

QUOTE

Should A Christian Vote?

If they want to keep their freedom to worship as they choose (amongst other things), probably.

Anyone who believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person does not know God.
There is no guarantee that voting will prevent someone from not respecting my God given right to do as God leads me to do, but I know that God will provide me with the strength and the will to do His will, even if others want to prevent me from doing it. So Even if worshiping God became illegal that still would not stop me from doing it, because I am not beholden to any government or man to do what they want me to do against God’s will.

I guess I don't know God then. Lol.

Although you raise a good point, God is the one in control. Of course, since God is in control, we all might as well stop being involved in the world at all since God will just get done what he wants with or without us. If you see some old lady being mugged, don't step in to help... God is in control. Lol.

That's not what I am saying; I speaking about who ultimatly decides who will hold political office. Is it God or is it us?

God. But, how does God bring it about? By people voting. He could put it into everyone's mind to vote for a certain candidate, but, if He hasn't told you not to vote, why wouldn't you? What if Hitler were up for election and all the Christians decided not to vote? I think advocating not voting is advocating complete inaction in all things. Do you choose where you send your kids to school? Are you concerned what they are being taught in school? If so, do you speak out, or, do nothing, or send them (your kids) somewhere else? I suppose that would be true of all things. We make choices about things, lol. Cuz, God gave us brains to use!

And the Spirit to follow, but, if he hasn't said not to vote, pick someone.

LOL.

If it were up to Christians to vote in whom God wants in office, then how come you never see Christians all voting for the same person? The fact is that they believe that it up to them to decide whom they want. They lack the faith and trust that no matter who gets into office that parson did not get there apart from God's will....God is the ultimate decider, with or with out an election.

Is God's will always done on earth?

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

If so, why are we supposed to pray for it to be done? Would you ask for milk if you had it already sitting in front of you?

But, you didn't answer the more important questions. Do you choose where you send your kids to school, if you get sick and God doesn't heal you, do you go to a doctor? Do you choose the best home loan if you are buying a home? If so, why not make a choice who you want to make your tax laws, or zoning laws, or school district rules? Did God tell you not to vote?

One must understand in what context does it mean? In heaven no one is fighting and hurting each other; in heaven there is only peace and joy. But on earth there is none of the above, but that is not to say that God does not have control over what happens here on the earth.

God rules in the kingdom of men as it says in the book of Daniel but what God ultimately desire is that the earth be as it is in heaven. Also, what Jesus was teaching the disciples and us, is that our focus should be the establishment of the kingdom of God on the earth; because that is the only way the world will be as it should be.

researcher

Oct 17 2008, 08:28 PM

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 05:16 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 08:57 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 05:08 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:45 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 04:28 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:01 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 03:50 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 04:04 PM)

QUOTE

Should A Christian Vote?

If they want to keep their freedom to worship as they choose (amongst other things), probably.

Anyone who believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person does not know God.
There is no guarantee that voting will prevent someone from not respecting my God given right to do as God leads me to do, but I know that God will provide me with the strength and the will to do His will, even if others want to prevent me from doing it. So Even if worshiping God became illegal that still would not stop me from doing it, because I am not beholden to any government or man to do what they want me to do against God’s will.

I guess I don't know God then. Lol.

Although you raise a good point, God is the one in control. Of course, since God is in control, we all might as well stop being involved in the world at all since God will just get done what he wants with or without us. If you see some old lady being mugged, don't step in to help... God is in control. Lol.

That's not what I am saying; I speaking about who ultimatly decides who will hold political office. Is it God or is it us?

God. But, how does God bring it about? By people voting. He could put it into everyone's mind to vote for a certain candidate, but, if He hasn't told you not to vote, why wouldn't you? What if Hitler were up for election and all the Christians decided not to vote? I think advocating not voting is advocating complete inaction in all things. Do you choose where you send your kids to school? Are you concerned what they are being taught in school? If so, do you speak out, or, do nothing, or send them (your kids) somewhere else? I suppose that would be true of all things. We make choices about things, lol. Cuz, God gave us brains to use!

And the Spirit to follow, but, if he hasn't said not to vote, pick someone.

LOL.

If it were up to Christians to vote in whom God wants in office, then how come you never see Christians all voting for the same person? The fact is that they believe that it up to them to decide whom they want. They lack the faith and trust that no matter who gets into office that parson did not get there apart from God's will....God is the ultimate decider, with or with out an election.

Is God's will always done on earth?

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

If so, why are we supposed to pray for it to be done? Would you ask for milk if you had it already sitting in front of you?

But, you didn't answer the more important questions. Do you choose where you send your kids to school, if you get sick and God doesn't heal you, do you go to a doctor? Do you choose the best home loan if you are buying a home? If so, why not make a choice who you want to make your tax laws, or zoning laws, or school district rules? Did God tell you not to vote?

One must understand in what context does it mean? In heaven no one is fighting and hurting each other; in heaven there is only peace and joy. But on earth there is none of the above, but that is not to say that God does not have control over what happens here on the earth.

God rules in the kingdom of men as it says in the book of Daniel but what God ultimately desire is that the earth be as it is in heaven. Also, what Jesus was teaching the disciples and us, is that our focus should be the establishment of the kingdom of God on the earth; because that is the only way the world will be as it should be.

Is abortion part of that kingdom? If not, why not choose the person most likely to have those laws repealed?

As for the peace and joy in heaven, I don't know. It says that Michael and his angels fight Satan and his at some point and throw Satan out which, I don't know whether that's happened yet or not. If it hasn't, then, there might be some fighting going on, lol.

researcher

Oct 17 2008, 08:31 PM

QUOTE (HeIsFaithful @ Oct 17 2008, 05:14 PM)

wellll.. researcher...

QUOTE

What if Hitler were up for election and all the Christians decided not to vote? I think advocating not voting is advocating complete inaction in all things. Do you choose where you send your kids to school? Are you concerned what they are being taught in school? If so, do you speak out, or, do nothing, or send them (your kids) somewhere else? I suppose that would be true of all things.

guess this is part of the nagging reason why i can't seem to totally decide NOT to vote..

but.. like i said the other day.. no matter which way you vote.. you lose...

i guess it's just a matter of how FAST we lose..

Hey HIF. I think it's up to us whether we vote or not. If God tells us to vote one way or another, ok, we should do it, otherwise, we should just use our heads, lol. I have the HS, and, I have no problem voting, lol. Heck, I even ran for Congress! LOL!!!!

That was WAAAAY cool!

BFSmith

Oct 17 2008, 09:00 PM

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 09:28 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 05:16 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 08:57 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 05:08 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:45 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 04:28 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:01 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 03:50 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 04:04 PM)

QUOTE

Should A Christian Vote?

If they want to keep their freedom to worship as they choose (amongst other things), probably.

Anyone who believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person does not know God.
There is no guarantee that voting will prevent someone from not respecting my God given right to do as God leads me to do, but I know that God will provide me with the strength and the will to do His will, even if others want to prevent me from doing it. So Even if worshiping God became illegal that still would not stop me from doing it, because I am not beholden to any government or man to do what they want me to do against God’s will.

I guess I don't know God then. Lol.

Although you raise a good point, God is the one in control. Of course, since God is in control, we all might as well stop being involved in the world at all since God will just get done what he wants with or without us. If you see some old lady being mugged, don't step in to help... God is in control. Lol.

That's not what I am saying; I speaking about who ultimatly decides who will hold political office. Is it God or is it us?

God. But, how does God bring it about? By people voting. He could put it into everyone's mind to vote for a certain candidate, but, if He hasn't told you not to vote, why wouldn't you? What if Hitler were up for election and all the Christians decided not to vote? I think advocating not voting is advocating complete inaction in all things. Do you choose where you send your kids to school? Are you concerned what they are being taught in school? If so, do you speak out, or, do nothing, or send them (your kids) somewhere else? I suppose that would be true of all things. We make choices about things, lol. Cuz, God gave us brains to use!

And the Spirit to follow, but, if he hasn't said not to vote, pick someone.

LOL.

If it were up to Christians to vote in whom God wants in office, then how come you never see Christians all voting for the same person? The fact is that they believe that it up to them to decide whom they want. They lack the faith and trust that no matter who gets into office that parson did not get there apart from God's will....God is the ultimate decider, with or with out an election.

Is God's will always done on earth?

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

If so, why are we supposed to pray for it to be done? Would you ask for milk if you had it already sitting in front of you?

But, you didn't answer the more important questions. Do you choose where you send your kids to school, if you get sick and God doesn't heal you, do you go to a doctor? Do you choose the best home loan if you are buying a home? If so, why not make a choice who you want to make your tax laws, or zoning laws, or school district rules? Did God tell you not to vote?

One must understand in what context does it mean? In heaven no one is fighting and hurting each other; in heaven there is only peace and joy. But on earth there is none of the above, but that is not to say that God does not have control over what happens here on the earth.

God rules in the kingdom of men as it says in the book of Daniel but what God ultimately desire is that the earth be as it is in heaven. Also, what Jesus was teaching the disciples and us, is that our focus should be the establishment of the kingdom of God on the earth; because that is the only way the world will be as it should be.

Is abortion part of that kingdom? If not, why not choose the person most likely to have those laws repealed?

Well if that's what you believe then be my guest and try, but as for me I know that as long as Satan is the god of this world what you would love to see will never happen. I guess some of us still believe that we can do it before Jesus returns. I can guarantee you this; you will fail and fail miserably. Instead of peace, you will have more wars, instead of security you will have more uncertainty, instead of having honest leaders you will have more corrupt and selfish leaders. Instead of less killings there will be more…more of everything that is evil and less and less of what is good, until everyone understand that only the kingdom of God on the earth can being total and complete joy, peace and prosperity to all people.

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 09:28 PM)

As for the peace and joy in heaven, I don't know. It says that Michael and his angels fight Satan and his at some point and throw Satan out which, I don't know whether that's happened yet or not. If it hasn't, then, there might be some fighting going on, lol.

There is peace in heaven; God's angles are not fighting and warring against other. God will allow Satan to enter heaven; Satan is not now in heaven, so the only time there is fighting is when Satan enters it to take it over. As I said, you don't have God's angels warring and fighting each other in heaven.

But on the earth this is not so...even within nations there is no peace....there is crime and violence among it citizens.

Marta

Oct 17 2008, 09:02 PM

Should you vote the Christian vote?

WWJD?

I am sick and tired of the REPUBLICAN party acting so HOLY and SELF-RIGHTEOUS!

It is a tactic to get the evangelical vote! It blinded us for the last eight years and look how wonderful George Bush have made the world a better place! Please! Before Bush took the oath of office, he said that Jesus Christ was his favorite ????????????(philospher? hero?) Yet he and Condi and the entire corrupt administration continue to --- all over the Constitution and what it really stands for! The simple fact is that he says what you want to hear at the appropriate time!

WHAT A HYPOCRITE!

George W Dumb Bush is simply a puppet that shows its strings. What a joke and how SAD it is if you guys cannot see the strings attached to this idiot!

GEORGE W. BUSH IS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY! PERIOD!!!!!

You just simply fell into the evangelical trap to vote for the LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

I challenge you guys to prove to me and the rest of the forum that our STUPID PRESIDENT didn't lie to the Americans and the court system about this so-called 'Weapons Of Mass Destruction' crap.

Please post what the REAL REASON was by bombing Iraq?

WAITING.................

BFSmith

Oct 17 2008, 09:28 PM

QUOTE (Marta @ Oct 17 2008, 10:02 PM)

Should you vote the Christian vote?

WWJD?

I am sick and tired of the REPUBLICAN party acting so HOLY and SELF-RIGHTEOUS!

It is a tactic to get the evangelical vote! It blinded us for the last eight years and look how wonderful George Bush have made the world a better place! Please! Before Bush took the oath of office, he said that Jesus Christ was his favorite ????????????(philospher? hero?) Yet he and Condi and the entire corrupt administration continue to --- all over the Constitution and what it really stands for! The simple fact is that he says what you want to hear at the appropriate time!

WHAT A HYPOCRITE!

As long as those who call themselves Christians continue to play politics they will be deceived.

QUOTE (Marta @ Oct 17 2008, 10:02 PM)

George W Dumb Bush is simply a puppet that shows its strings. What a joke and how SAD it is if you guys cannot see the strings attached to this idiot!

GEORGE W. BUSH IS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY! PERIOD!!!!!

You just simply fell into the evangelical trap to vote for the LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

I challenge you guys to prove to me and the rest of the forum that our STUPID PRESIDENT didn't lie to the Americans and the court system about this so-called 'Weapons Of Mass Destruction' crap.

Please post what the REAL REASON was by bombing Iraq?

WAITING.................

You know I had to laugh out loud when a former coworker (and a Christian) said that the Mr. Bush is a Christian....I laughed because it was very plain to me that he was anything but a Christian....I mean, how some of us can be so easily deceived? A man claiming to be a Christian and we immediately run head long and believe him, forgetting or not knowing what Jesus said about people who would say that Jesus was the Christ, but deceive many.

How would they not also be deceived if the Beast power were to come to power right now? The truth is a lot of supposed Christians will be deceived when the world power comes on the sean.

researcher

Oct 18 2008, 12:19 AM

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 06:00 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 09:28 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 05:16 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 08:57 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 05:08 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:45 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 04:28 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:01 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 03:50 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 04:04 PM)

QUOTE

Should A Christian Vote?

If they want to keep their freedom to worship as they choose (amongst other things), probably.

Anyone who believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person does not know God.
There is no guarantee that voting will prevent someone from not respecting my God given right to do as God leads me to do, but I know that God will provide me with the strength and the will to do His will, even if others want to prevent me from doing it. So Even if worshiping God became illegal that still would not stop me from doing it, because I am not beholden to any government or man to do what they want me to do against God’s will.

I guess I don't know God then. Lol.

Although you raise a good point, God is the one in control. Of course, since God is in control, we all might as well stop being involved in the world at all since God will just get done what he wants with or without us. If you see some old lady being mugged, don't step in to help... God is in control. Lol.

That's not what I am saying; I speaking about who ultimatly decides who will hold political office. Is it God or is it us?

God. But, how does God bring it about? By people voting. He could put it into everyone's mind to vote for a certain candidate, but, if He hasn't told you not to vote, why wouldn't you? What if Hitler were up for election and all the Christians decided not to vote? I think advocating not voting is advocating complete inaction in all things. Do you choose where you send your kids to school? Are you concerned what they are being taught in school? If so, do you speak out, or, do nothing, or send them (your kids) somewhere else? I suppose that would be true of all things. We make choices about things, lol. Cuz, God gave us brains to use!

And the Spirit to follow, but, if he hasn't said not to vote, pick someone.

LOL.

If it were up to Christians to vote in whom God wants in office, then how come you never see Christians all voting for the same person? The fact is that they believe that it up to them to decide whom they want. They lack the faith and trust that no matter who gets into office that parson did not get there apart from God's will....God is the ultimate decider, with or with out an election.

Is God's will always done on earth?

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

If so, why are we supposed to pray for it to be done? Would you ask for milk if you had it already sitting in front of you?

But, you didn't answer the more important questions. Do you choose where you send your kids to school, if you get sick and God doesn't heal you, do you go to a doctor? Do you choose the best home loan if you are buying a home? If so, why not make a choice who you want to make your tax laws, or zoning laws, or school district rules? Did God tell you not to vote?

One must understand in what context does it mean? In heaven no one is fighting and hurting each other; in heaven there is only peace and joy. But on earth there is none of the above, but that is not to say that God does not have control over what happens here on the earth.

God rules in the kingdom of men as it says in the book of Daniel but what God ultimately desire is that the earth be as it is in heaven. Also, what Jesus was teaching the disciples and us, is that our focus should be the establishment of the kingdom of God on the earth; because that is the only way the world will be as it should be.

Is abortion part of that kingdom? If not, why not choose the person most likely to have those laws repealed?

Well if that's what you believe then be my guest and try, but as for me I know that as long as Satan is the god of this world what you would love to see will never happen. I guess some of us still believe that we can do it before Jesus returns. I can guarantee you this; you will fail and fail miserably. Instead of peace, you will have more wars, instead of security you will have more uncertainty, instead of having honest leaders you will have more corrupt and selfish leaders. Instead of less killings there will be more…more of everything that is evil and less and less of what is good, until everyone understand that only the kingdom of God on the earth can being total and complete joy, peace and prosperity to all people.

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 09:28 PM)

As for the peace and joy in heaven, I don't know. It says that Michael and his angels fight Satan and his at some point and throw Satan out which, I don't know whether that's happened yet or not. If it hasn't, then, there might be some fighting going on, lol.

There is peace in heaven; God's angles are not fighting and warring against other. God will allow Satan to enter heaven; Satan is not now in heaven, so the only time there is fighting is when Satan enters it to take it over. As I said, you don't have God's angels warring and fighting each other in heaven.

But on the earth this is not so...even within nations there is no peace....there is crime and violence among it citizens.

There will be born again Christians killing and reeking havoc in the end also. They'll be doing God's work.

BFSmith

Oct 18 2008, 03:10 AM

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 18 2008, 12:19 AM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 06:00 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 09:28 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 05:16 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 08:57 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 05:08 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:45 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 04:28 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 06:01 PM)

QUOTE (BFSmith @ Oct 17 2008, 03:50 PM)

QUOTE (researcher @ Oct 17 2008, 04:04 PM)

QUOTE

Should A Christian Vote?

If they want to keep their freedom to worship as they choose (amongst other things), probably.

Anyone who believes that their freedom comes from electing the right person does not know God.
There is no guarantee that voting will prevent someone from not respecting my God given right to do as God leads me to do, but I know that God will provide me with the strength and the will to do His will, even if others want to prevent me from doing it. So Even if worshiping God became illegal that still would not stop me from doing it, because I am not beholden to any government or man to do what they want me to do against God’s will.

I guess I don't know God then. Lol.

Although you raise a good point, God is the one in control. Of course, since God is in control, we all might as well stop being involved in the world at all since God will just get done what he wants with or without us. If you see some old lady being mugged, don't step in to help... God is in control. Lol.

That's not what I am saying; I speaking about who ultimatly decides who will hold political office. Is it God or is it us?

God. But, how does God bring it about? By people voting. He could put it into everyone's mind to vote for a certain candidate, but, if He hasn't told you not to vote, why wouldn't you? What if Hitler were up for election and all the Christians decided not to vote? I think advocating not voting is advocating complete inaction in all things. Do you choose where you send your kids to school? Are you concerned what they are being taught in school? If so, do you speak out, or, do nothing, or send them (your kids) somewhere else? I suppose that would be true of all things. We make choices about things, lol. Cuz, God gave us brains to use!

And the Spirit to follow, but, if he hasn't said not to vote, pick someone.

LOL.

If it were up to Christians to vote in whom God wants in office, then how come you never see Christians all voting for the same person? The fact is that they believe that it up to them to decide whom they want. They lack the faith and trust that no matter who gets into office that parson did not get there apart from God's will....God is the ultimate decider, with or with out an election.

Is God's will always done on earth?

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

If so, why are we supposed to pray for it to be done? Would you ask for milk if you had it already sitting in front of you?

But, you didn't answer the more important questions. Do you choose where you send your kids to school, if you get sick and God doesn't heal you, do you go to a doctor? Do you choose the best home loan if you are buying a home? If so, why not make a choice who you want to make your tax laws, or zoning laws, or school district rules? Did God tell you not to vote?

One must understand in what context does it mean? In heaven no one is fighting and hurting each