I would very much llike to address this forum the importance of why God gave all Creation free will, even the Angels were given it!!!

I have found out a few here think we were all pre-ordained and it wasn't God's purpose to gave Mankind free will, this is a very dangerous belief and very un-scriptual also.

Let me explain:

The Wonderful Gift of Free Will

TO UNDERSTAND why God has permitted suffering and what he will do about it, we need to appreciate how he made us. He did more than create us with just a body and a brain. He also created us with special mental and emotional qualities.

A key part of our mental and emotional makeup is free will. Yes, God implanted in us the faculty of freedom of choice. It was indeed a wonderful gift from him.

How We Are Made

Let us consider how free will is involved in God’s permission of suffering. To begin with, think about this: Do you appreciate having the freedom to choose what you will do and say, what you will eat and wear, what kind of work you will do, and where and how you will live? Or would you want someone to dictate your every word and action every moment of your life?

No normal person wants his life taken out of his control so completely. Why not? Because of the way God made us. The Bible tells us that God created man in his ‘image and likeness,’ and one of the faculties God himself has is freedom of choice. (Genesis 1:26; Deuteronomy 7:6) When he created humans, he gave them that same wonderful faculty—the gift of free will. That is one reason why we find it frustrating to be enslaved by oppressive rulers.

So the desire for freedom is no accident, for God is a God of freedom. The Bible says: “Where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.” (2 Corinthians 3:17) Hence, God gave us free will as part of our very makeup. Since he knew the way our minds and emotions would work, he knew that we would be happiest with free will.

To go with the gift of free will, God gave us the ability to think, weigh matters, make decisions, and know right from wrong. (Hebrews 5:14) Thus, free will was to be based on intelligent choice. We were not made like mindless robots having no will of their own. Nor were we created to act out of instinct as were the animals. Instead, our marvelous brain was designed to work in harmony with our freedom of choice.

The Best Start

To show how caring God was, along with the gift of free will, our first parents, Adam and Eve, were given everything that anyone could reasonably want. They were put in a large, parklike paradise. They had material abundance. They had perfect minds and bodies, so they would not have to get old or get sick or die—they could have lived forever. They would have had perfect children who could also have had a happy, everlasting future. And the expanding population would have had the satisfying work of eventually turning the entire earth into a paradise.—Genesis 1:26-30; 2:15.

Regarding what was provided, the Bible relates: “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good.” (Genesis 1:31) The Bible also says of God: “Perfect is his activity.” (Deuteronomy 32:4) Yes, the Creator gave the human family a perfect start. It could not have been better. What a caring God he proved to be!

Freedom Within Limits

However, did God purpose for free will to be without limits? Imagine a busy city without any traffic laws, where everybody could drive in any direction at any speed. Would you want to drive under those conditions? No, that would be traffic anarchy and would surely result in many accidents.

So too with God’s gift of free will. Unlimited freedom would mean anarchy in society. There have to be laws to guide human activities. God’s Word says: “Behave like free men, and never use your freedom as an excuse for wickedness.” (1 Peter 2:16, JB) God wants free will to be regulated for the common good. He purposed for us to have, not total freedom, but relative freedom, subject to the rule of law.

Whose Laws?

Whose laws were we designed to obey? Another part of the text at 1 Peter 2:16 (JB) states: “You are slaves of no one except God.” This does not mean an oppressive slavery, but, rather, it means that we were designed to be happiest when in subjection to God’s laws. (Matthew 22:35-40) His laws, more than any laws devised by humans, provide the best guide. “I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself, the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk.”—Isaiah 48:17.

At the same time, God’s laws allow for great freedom of choice within their boundaries. This results in variety and makes the human family fascinating. Think of the different types of food, clothing, music, art, and homes throughout the world. We surely prefer to have our choice in such matters rather than have some other person decide for us.

Thus we were created to be happiest when subject to God’s laws for human behavior. It is similar to being subject to God’s physical laws. For instance, if we ignore the law of gravity and jump off a high place, we will be injured or killed. If we ignore the internal laws of our body and stop eating food, drinking water, or breathing air, we will die.

As surely as we were created with the need to submit to God’s physical laws, we were created with the need to submit to God’s moral and social laws. (Matthew 4:4) Humans were not created to be independent of their Maker and be successful. The prophet Jeremiah says: “It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step. Correct me, O Jehovah.” (Jeremiah 10:23, 24) So in every way humans were created to live under God’s rulership, not their own.

Obedience to God’s laws would not have been burdensome for our first parents. Instead, it would have worked for their welfare and that of the entire human family. Had the first pair stayed within the limits of God’s laws, all would have been well. In fact, we would now be living in a wonderful paradise of pleasure as a loving, united human family! There would not have been wickedness, suffering, and death.

The conclusion

If God gave no free will, that would make him a Selfish God, not a loving One, if everything was all pre-ordained, even Satan would of never existed, he would be with the other 1/3 of angels in direct control by God, and even Mankind wwould be in forced worship to God.
I know by Bible prophesies that God knows the outcome of everything, even in the beginning He knew when creating the Angels that a 1/3 would turn their back on him, even when Adam was formed, He also knew that Mankind would fall away from union with him.

Why let this all happen, because of Free will,

God's personality is of Love and he prefers to be worshipped by choice not by force. He knows that the other 2/3's of angels worship Him because they love Him and want to worship Him. Even some of Mankind had a close relationship, like Noah and Moses, out of their own choice.

I know who the God I worship is, He is a loving and unselfish God, who has great enjoyment of being worshipped by choice and choice alone, for this a genuine relationship with God which can only be done by Free Will.

yes God does give us a free will i preach on this when i am in the philippines i go to the mens jail in Bacolod


and when ever i say you have the choice the inmates respond the second pastor who i s a male interprets for me and he said to me i can see that they respond to what you have to say i said yes because i was in their shoes and i know were some wil end up most prisoners get use to being behind bars they never really work on them selves or participate in the programs the prsions offer to better them selves its as if they have come so acustomed to the life they cant handle living in the real world

for example if some one has done say 10yrs the guards and the warden place bets and say when they are let out see you soon they have a book and in this book names are written in it and a question mark is left


the warden shook my hands and said to me i will see you soon i looked at him and said no you wil not i said i learnt my lesson thank you for keeping an eye out for me and making sure i was sticking to the rules and thank you for the advice you gave me but you wil never see me and to this day i have kept to what i said to the warden


i wrote a letter i hope it got to him telling him what i have been up to and how i gave my life to god


its the same with christians they can choose to be sin free or keep sinning we are like an anonymus church of sinners just like AA and NA but the diffrence is we are christians we dont have to get up and say i am an addict or i am an alcaholic and share how we hit rock bottom

we know why we are staying on the path god has us on yet its up to us if we stay on the path christ has us on or sin and go back to our old ways

if you fal pick your self up dont go to the start brush your self of repent deal with it and move forward and if you fal say in 10 yrs time do the same thing dont go back to when you said the sinners prayer brush your self off and move on dont beat your self up chirst does not throw our sin in our face or remind us of who we use to be

every one has a free wil christ does not force him self on us he weights patiently for us to respond he never gives up on us




God bless from damo

The idea that Christ went to the cross to pay for everybody's sin is false, according the the Bible. Most all of the churches don't understand at all what God's salvation plan is; they teach a do-it-yourself salvation... each with their own variances.

It is true that an unsaved person can control sin in his life by his own freewill; trying to live as faithful as possible, be obedient and read the Bible, etc. We have freewill to do that, but it has nothing to do with getting us saved because if we commit one sin we're guilty of all. But we do have the capacity to live a fairly righteous life. The bible speaks of those trusting in their righteousness to help satisfy their relationship with God, rationalizing that because they are righteous, God should have mercy upon them and save them.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all."
-James 2:10

"We are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags"
-Isaiah 64:6


The Bible tells us that we need a savior. A savior is God's program of electing those he came to save and making payment for their sins long before they were born; it has nothing to do with freewill. We can make no contribution to our salvation.

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
-Romans 8:28-30

"For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;
It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
[What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
-Romans 9:11-26

Sitting back and doing nothing is also a waste of your time. One still needs faith, and works follow our faith. The Word of God also tells us, the we "Must" worship God in Spirit and in Truth. Doing nothing is not whorshiping at all !

The Word also tells us, that my sheep hear my voice. You always respond when you hear his voice. Sitting there like a bump on a log is not responding.

There are those who lived in times past, like in the OT, who never knew God, nor even recognized him as being the God of Israel. But God sent his Son, not only for the sins of the body of Christ, but for the sins of the world ! We all will stand before one of the two judgement seats. It will be a time of reckoning.

Love IN Christ - MM

Men have free will within a concept of God's will. He has a way of making us do things according to His plan while allowing us to operate according to ours. It is infite wisdom and we are geared to His will while "having it our way." In a sense, both sides are correct as respecting free will. Perhaps Mordecai and Haman are examples of that. Haman ended up on the very gallows that he had built for Mordecai. Haman obviously planned on executing Mordecai. But God allowed Haman to go ahead with his plan. It did not turn out the way Haman thought it would. To his great discomfort.

Job 22:28 Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways. This sounds like a man with will being given his way and that established by the will of God.

If one is not saved, they must PRAY AND ASK GOD TO BE MERCIFUL UPON THEIR SOUL THAT HE WOULD SAVE THEM. As God wills, He will do the rest. An unsaved person can make no contribution to his own salvation.

When one receives saving faith from God, works will definitely follow:

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]."
- Ezekiel 36:26-27

Only when God saves us can we worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Yes, His sheep hear His voice... but most will not because they are not His sheep.

"he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."
-Matthew 25:32-33

Whether in ancient times, or times present, these same Scriptures apply:

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
-Romans 8:28-30

But a person's freewill has nothing to do with salvation.

It is true that an unsaved person can control sin in his life by his own freewill; trying to live as faithful as possible, be obedient and read the Bible, etc. We have freewill to do that, but it has nothing to do with getting us saved because if we commit one sin we're guilty of all. But we do have the capacity to live a fairly righteous life. The bible speaks of those trusting in their righteousness to help satisfy their relationship with God, rationalizing that because they are righteous, God should have mercy upon them and save them.

The Bible tells us that we need a savior. A savior is God's program of electing those he came to save and making payment for their sins long before they were born; it has nothing to do with freewill. We can make no contribution to our salvation.

When a person is predestined to come to Christ, God is the one who provides the transformation of the heart necessary for salvation... and the steps of the righteous are ordered of the Lord to achieve His purpose and will. (Psalm 37:23)

"The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
-Jeremiah 17:9

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."
-Ezekiel 36:26

God alone does all the work of salvation.

Lev 22:18 Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;


THERE'S about 15 verses in the bible that mentions FREEWILL

only a bible-hater would deny that we have freewill

God told Cain,,,,,,,,,,if you do right, you will be accepted.
and
if you do wrong, you will be rejected.


your calvinism contradicts God.

Please repent before it's too late!

Please allow me to reiterate:

It is true that an unsaved person can control sin in his life by his own freewill; trying to live as faithful as possible, be obedient and read the Bible, etc. We have freewill to do that, but it has nothing to do with getting us saved because if we commit one sin we're guilty of all. But we do have the capacity to live a fairly righteous life. The bible speaks of those trusting in their righteousness to help satisfy their relationship with God, rationalizing that because they are righteous, God should have mercy upon them and save them.

But a person's freewill has nothing to do with salvation.

The Bible tells us that we need a savior. A savior is God's program of electing those he came to save and making payment for their sins long before they were born; it has nothing to do with freewill. We can make no contribution to our salvation.

When a person is predestined to come to Christ, God is the one who provides the transformation of the heart necessary for salvation... and the steps of the righteous are ordered of the Lord to achieve His purpose and will. (Psalm 37:23)

"The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
-Jeremiah 17:9

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."
-Ezekiel 36:26

God alone does all the work of salvation.

YOU DON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOU SAID.........nobody believes calvinism

if calvinism is true,,,,,,,,,,then, how (or why) does God Elect me, but not you (or vice-versa)?

calvin's God is Partial.........everybody knows this, including you

the Truth is:
God saves ONLY the repentant believer

God rejects ONLY the un-repentant un-believer.

so, i have a part to play in my salvation,,,,,,,,,,,if i choose, by my free-will, to believe and repent,,,,,,,,God will save me

if i choose to NOT believe and repent,,,,,,,God rejects me.

and everybody knows this is true,,,,,,,,,,,,Calvin knew it,,,but he lied against Christ, because he hated Christ

Luk 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:


people who choose to believe and repent are ACCOUNTED WORTHY

believe and repent, before it's too late!

stop contradicting God...........Abe was counted as righteous, BECAUSE HE BELIEVED GOD

ABE did not contradict God.

This is getting confusing. Are we talking about freewill or predestination here? I think free will is obvious. I get to make choices in life. They can be contrary to sound doctrine. I still get to make choices. I am predestined according to scripture. Elsewise I could give a hoot...but something keeps drawing me...that something would be God.

There is an element of free will that astounds us. For we are swimming in a spiritual "sea" That is not necessarily a spiritual "see." God has us in His will even when we are out of His will by our dead reckoning...and it is "dead reckoning."

The idea that Christ went to the cross to pay for everybody's sin is false, according the the Bible. Most all of the churches don't understand at all what God's salvation plan is; they teach a do-it-yourself salvation... each with their own variances.

It is true that an unsaved person can control sin in his life by his own freewill; trying to live as faithful as possible, be obedient and read the Bible, etc. We have freewill to do that, but it has nothing to do with getting us saved because if we commit one sin we're guilty of all. But we do have the capacity to live a fairly righteous life. The bible speaks of those trusting in their righteousness to help satisfy their relationship with God, rationalizing that because they are righteous, God should have mercy upon them and save them.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all."
-James 2:10

"We are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags"
-Isaiah 64:6


The Bible tells us that we need a savior. A savior is God's program of electing those he came to save and making payment for their sins long before they were born; it has nothing to do with freewill. We can make no contribution to our salvation.

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
-Romans 8:28-30

"For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;
It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
[What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
-Romans 9:11-26

Annie

What about those who died before Christ came, and were not a part of Israel ?

Yes, there is predestination, but predestination does not take away our free will !

Our lack of desire to worship God throughout the day could result in our lazyness , which could bring about a loss of rewards. But that is what free will is all about. The freedom of our free will to act or not to act. Our free will to love or not to love. But those who died before Christ needed a saviour as much as us who were born after Christ death and resurrection. What about them ?

Love IN Christ - MM

It is not confusing at all.

It is true that an unsaved person can control sin in his life by his own freewill; trying to live as faithful as possible, be obedient and read the Bible, etc. We have freewill to do that, but it has nothing to do with getting us saved because if we commit one sin we're guilty of all. But we do have the capacity to live a fairly righteous life. The bible speaks of those trusting in their righteousness to help satisfy their relationship with God, rationalizing that because they are righteous, God should have mercy upon them and save them.

The churches misconstrue what the Bible says and preach that a person can choose whether or not he will have eternal life; that it is a person's freewill choice whether he come's to be saved or not. (John 17:9)

Freewill has nothing to do with salvation, though. God does all the choosing; He predestinates those He saves. God alone does all the work of salvation.

Salvation is not of works. Exercising freewill to choose would be a work that we do to acquire salvation. (Romans 9:11)

Many are called but few are chosen.

Not all are chosen !

Love IN Christ - MM

hi~

choice, & freewill are only the benefits of the greatest gift, but it is not the greatest gift on its own. remember how the LORD God in heaven made man, in His image & His likeness ~ that is the greatest gift, of which choice is one of its benefits - God has choice, we have choice. of a truth, we have been blessed to think, to feel, to create.......if one reads throughout the scriptures, one becomes aware that the many ways that God behaves, we have those characteristics too & have been given choice to act by our own will given by Him that made us.

--

Genefis CHAP. I, 1:26 (akjv 1611)

1:26 And God said, *Let vs make man in our Image, after our likenesse : and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the foule of the aire, and over the cattell, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth vpon the earth. 27 So God created man in his owne Image, in the Image of God created hee him; *male and female created hee them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said vnto them, *Be fruitfull, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the foule of the aire, and over every living thing that +mooueth vpon the earth.

--

the LORD didn't have to, but He did, for His own pleasure He did, for He loves us & as His crown of creation, He didn't want for us to be simple automotons.

~levite-7

Whom God saves in any era or time frame is strictly His business. We are nobody to question God's salvation program. (Isaiah 55:9)

God predestines and calls who He wills to salvation. It's all been done before the foundation of the world:

"he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Having made known unto us the mystery of HIS WILL, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL"
-Ephesians 1:4-11

A person can choose what he does and how he acts, whether he is moral or not, etc. But regarding salvation, it is of God alone.

All of God's elect were chosen before the foundation of the world, whether they died before or after Christ. (Eph.1:4)

Annie

None of God's elect died before Christ ! God's elect came on and after day of pentecost !

Love IN Christ - MM

Well....... we have Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ezekiel, Daniel, Jeremiah, etc., etc., etc. Those before Christ are the "remnant." They are the elect too as they are those that brought His Word forward. The vast majority of elect are in this final generation and they are being called.

Greetings,

God so loved the "world." It does not say, "God so loved the believer ..." We need not limit the love and mercy of God. If choice means "no-choice" then "choice" should not be used in God's word. God does not use the word if He did not actually mean what He said.

A Parodox --

The Word of God is not divided against itself. "Many are called, few are chosen." Read the passages in which this statement is found (Matt. 20:1-16 and 22:1-14), and it will be apparent that those who are not chosen are those who themselves do not choose to accept the terms of salvation.

Election means choice. The free choice is given to all. “Choose life, that both foul and thy seed may live.” Deut. 30:19. “Choose you this day and who eat will serve.” Joshua 24:13. ... But you say that God chooses who will be saved. That is true, but then why does He then say, "choose life"? He does not say, "don't choose life, for I have already made up my mind." That is not a paradox, but a contradiction. He makes it plain, "CHOOSE life." ... God says, you may "choose."

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:" Is not God a God of choice? Would that not be in His likeness or image? Likeness means "model." How can we be a "model" of Him if we have no choice as He does? It's a fact that Jesus said, “No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him”?—Yes, Jesus did say that; and He also said of Himself, with reference to His crucifixion, “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me.” John 12:32. God does not say, "will draw all believers." How can that be if they have not yet believed? A PARODOX INDEED! God does not negate one scripture with another, for they are in harmony!

"Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the 'believer." NO, NO, NO. Jesus does not say that, He says, "who takes away the sin of the WORLD." John 1:29.

Christ "is the Savior of ALL men, especially of those who believe." 1 Tim. 4:10. It does not say, "Christ is the Savior of ONLY those who believe." Every person can think of Him as already his Savior! That's the GOOD NEWS, that's the gospel!

Did Satan have a choice? Did God "choose" sin to come into this universe? Did He advocate "sin and death? Is He the AUTHOR of SIN? .... Or did Satan have a choice?

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.” The word “predestinate” is the same as “foreordain,” which is found in the Revised Version. God knows all things, not by study and research as man learns the little we know, but because he is God. He inhabits eternity. Isa. 57:15. We can not understand how this can be any more than we can understand eternity. We must accept the fact and be not only content, but glad, that God is greater than we. All time, past, present, and future, is the same to Him. It is always “now” with God.

God’s thoughts toward men are thoughts of peace, and not of evil. Jer. 29:11. He ordains peace for us. Isa. 26:12. We read nothing about men being foreordained to destruction; the only thing that God has predestinated is that men should be conformed to the image of his Son.

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

How paradoxical --- God chooses, yet He has given us a choice! Hence, He chooses those whom choose Him. Oh, what a loving a merciful God we have! Freedom means choice, if no choice, no freedom.

Yes, all those people in Babylon whom the Lord calls, "MY PEOPLE" He is reaching out to (Rev. 18:4), this is not some kind of much-ado-about-nothing issue. This gives us the answer and the key to reaching the Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish mind. Why, because Jesus is the "Savior of ALL men." There is only one gospel.

blessings in Christ,
Jake

NOT !

IN Christ - MM

Are you 13 or maybe even 13 1/2 yet?

Aside from those whom God called in the OT - they died and never had a chance to either be called or be chosen. There was no choice for them according to the day and time.

We choose eternal life through Christ. Why ? Because "Now", he has been revealed unto us in our day and time , since the first century church.

Jesus Christ said that my sheep hear my voice, whether they are Jew or Gentile ! And there are 'two' folds. And in the future, the two will become one under one Shepard.

Prior to that , they did not have a choice to choose Christ.

God will judge them, but they will end up with eternal life, if they did not commit a sin unto death. Murder is one of the two sins unto death.

Pure Idolatry is the other !

Some were swayed into believing in pagaism in the OT, but God will judge their hearts.

If their name remains in the book of life, they will end up in the New Earth for eternity.

Love IN Christ - MM

Your heart is being revealed. Out of the mouth - Matthew 15:11

IN Christ - MM

ALL those whom God would save were chosen before the foundation of the world. (Eph.1:4)

That is very true...I'm proud of you MM. You got one right! What I don't understand however is if you knew this why all the....liar, idolater, etc. words you have used? You compare that to my asking your age?

Now, as for your latest reply....

"Aside from those whom God called in the OT - they died and never had a chance to either be called or be chosen."

As you have changed your story don't you think I warrant an...oh gosh, I was wrong and you're right Whirlwind?

The word "saved" has a meaning that indicates a certain group of people for a purpose. That purpose is revealed within the scriptures. Those whom God predestined to be in Christ , are the saints. They will come back with Christ upon this earth - I Thess. 3:13

IN Christ - MM

The Bible teaches that one is either saved or lost; saints or sinners; sheep or goats. We are either predestined to be saved or are lost; vessel of honor, or of dishonor.