I am studying this topic with a coworker. Curious as to what others here think.

If Calvinism were valid, then why was there a tree of the "knowledge of good and evil"?


Calvinism would only leave room for the tree of no choice.

Why was there the tree of the "knowledge of good and evil"? So that we would have the choice....once they both were understood.


In His Love,
Suzanne

S'what I believe too Suzanne.

But a lot of folks understand it quite differently.

When studying a concept, the first step is to pronounce and write it properly.

JOHN CALVIN read the bible..........understood it..........and he hated what it said...........so, he invented "another gospel" , to oppose the True Gospel and the True Christ

the bible is understandable,,,,,,,,,,but most people who read it,,,,,,,,,oppose it, twist it,,,,,,,lie against it,,,,,,,,,pervert it

Calvinism is not a version of Christianity...........it's a perversion of Christianity

Calvin didn't want to be personally responsible for his choices..........

he didn't want personal responsiblity for his salvation choice (or his choice to rebell and dis-obey)

Hello there... Actually I'm an agnostic. (Wasn't allowed to start a separate topic. Sorry for the clutter)

Anyway I'm just searching for answers and would like to speak with someone regarding evidence for the Christian God and to go over some prophecies. I give you my word I am not a troll nor am I a bitter atheist or have an axe to grind. I have checked out the prophecy section but would like to speak with someone 1 on 1. My email is panozwa(AT)yahoo.com and I have yahoo/aim/msn messengers as well. All help would be very much appreciated, thank you and take care.

The question is a trick one as it is coming from a carnal understanding. One does not divide the Body based on a personal viewpoint and/or experience. Are any here followers of Christ?

<><

John

You should first look into the biography of John Calvin, and then begin to look at the things that he taught as doctrine.

This will put it into a whole new perspective because after I found that calvin was consenting to the deaths of many that opposed his "doctrine", my eyes were truly opened!

This is one of those facts that most calvinism churches fail to tell you when they spew the lies of the Calvinist doctrine.

Limited atonement is the one that I find the most in error.

Calvin taught that your faith has nothing to do with salvation....

He taught that you can believe in Christ and it means nothing.....

You dont have to look too much further to find that this man was teaching another gospel....

In Christ,
Chris

i am not a calvinist but instead I am a believe believer. calvinists have some truth and some bad doctrine just as armenians do also.

calvies agree with the word of God on the total depravity, limited atonement,unconditional election,-

then they are partly correct on irrestable grace and totally misplaced on preservation of the saints because they do not understand faith and they do not understand Gods purposes for creation.


also they are mostly cessationists which is a false doctrine and while they believe God is in all control they often have a suprising lack of faith or ability to walk in faith in the promises of God.


Very often( and again this is all general over all, i am in no way applying it to all calvies) they are a good example of having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof.

Never looked into it.

A definition of what it is is a start.

5 Points of Calvinism or TULIP

T
Total Depravity (Total Inability)
Total Depravity is probably the most misunderstood tenet of Calvinism. When Calvinists speak of humans as "totally depraved," they are making an extensive, rather than an intensive statement. The effect of the fall upon man is that sin has extended to every part of his personality -- his thinking, his emotions, and his will. Not necessarily that he is intensely sinful, but that sin has extended to his entire being.

The unregenerate (unsaved) man is dead in his sins (Romans 5:12). Without the power of the Holy Spirit, the natural man is blind and deaf to the message of the gospel (Mark 4:11f). This is why Total Depravity has also been called "Total Inability." The man without a knowledge of God will never come to this knowledge without God's making him alive through Christ (Ephesians 2:1-5).


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U
Unconditional Election
Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon his looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-8).

This doctrine does not rule out, however, man's responsibility to believe in the redeeming work of God the Son (John 3:16-18). Scripture presents a tension between God's sovereignty in salvation, and man's responsibility to believe which it does not try to resolve. Both are true -- to deny man's responsibility is to affirm an unbiblical hyper-calvinism; to deny God's sovereignty is to affirm an unbiblical Arminianism.

The elect are saved unto good works (Ephesians 2:10). Thus, though good works will never bridge the gulf between man and God that was formed in the Fall, good works are a result of God's saving grace. This is what Peter means when he admonishes the Christian reader to make his "calling" and "election" sure (2 Peter 1:10). Bearing the fruit of good works is an indication that God has sown seeds of grace in fertile soil.


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L
Limited Atonement (Particular Redemption)
Limited Atonement is a doctrine offered in answer to the question, "for whose sins did Christ atone?" The Bible teaches that Christ died for those whom God gave him to save (John 17:9). Christ died, indeed, for many people, but not all (Matthew 26:28). Specifically, Christ died for the invisible Church -- the sum total of all those who would ever rightly bear the name "Christian" (Ephesians 5:25).

This doctrine often finds many objections, mostly from those who think that Limited Atonement does damage to evangelism. We have already seen that Christ will not lose any that the father has given to him (John 6:37). Christ's death was not a death of potential atonement for all people. Believing that Jesus' death was a potential, symbolic atonement for anyone who might possibly, in the future, accept him trivializes Christ's act of atonement. Christ died to atone for specific sins of specific sinners. Christ died to make holy the church. He did not atone for all men, because obviously all men are not saved. Evangelism is actually lifted up in this doctrine, for the evangelist may tell his congregation that Christ died for sinners, and that he will not lose any of those for whom he died!


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I
Irresistible Grace
The result of God's Irresistible Grace is the certain response by the elect to the inward call of the Holy Spirit, when the outward call is given by the evangelist or minister of the Word of God. Christ, himself, teaches that all whom God has elected will come to a knowledge of him (John 6:37). Men come to Christ in salvation when the Father calls them (John 6:44), and the very Spirit of God leads God's beloved to repentance (Romans 8:14). What a comfort it is to know that the gospel of Christ will penetrate our hard, sinful hearts and wondrously save us through the gracious inward call of the Holy Spirit (I Peter 5:10)!


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P
Perseverance of the Saints
Perseverance of the Saints is a doctrine which states that the saints (those whom God has saved) will remain in God's hand until they are glorified and brought to abide with him in heaven. Romans 8:28-39 makes it clear that when a person truly has been regenerated by God, he will remain in God's stead. The work of sanctification which God has brought about in his elect will continue until it reaches its fulfillment in eternal life (Phil. 1:6). Christ assures the elect that he will not lose them and that they will be glorified at the "last day" (John 6:39). The Calvinist stands upon the Word of God and trusts in Christ's promise that he will perfectly fulfill the will of the Father in saving all the elect.



Found here:
http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/index.html

And on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_points_o...ts_of_Calvinism

please go to the main home-page of this site.
www.christian-forum.net
click on the sub-forum
FULFILLED PROPHECY

you might find some "evidence" for the Truth of the Bible there


The three Great Proofs that the Bible is True.

1. Fulfilled prophecies (predictions of the Future).
2. The Great Love found in the Bible.
3. The changed lives of the believers.

1. Isaiah 46;9,10 Amplified Bible
“I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end and the result from the beginning and from ancient times the things that are not yet done.”

The Christian Bible (the Old Testament and the New Testament) are the only Scriptures in the world which contains predictions of the future. About 30 % of the Bible is Prophecy (predictions of the future). And a majority of these prophecies have already been fulfilled. Some of the Prophecies await their fulfillment, such as the Second Coming of Christ.

2. The Bible (both Old Testament and New Testament) commands us to “Love God, and Love your neighbor as yourself”. No-one (except God/Jesus) has ever “loved his neighbor as himself”. Each person is far more concerned with his own life and comfort than his neighbor’s concerns. Jesus told us to “Sell all that you have and give the money to the poor”. This is an expression/example of the great Love that God/Jesus has for all people. Did Jesus practice what he preached? Yes! He said “I don’t even have a stone to lay My Head on.” Jesus REQUIRES that we love with Extreme, Intense Love; He loves with Intense Love, and He REQUIRES that we be like Him. And when we fail to love perfectly, He is slow to anger and eager to forgive.
God’s standards of Love and Righteousness are far higher than ours. If we reject His rule over us, He punishes with great punishment. If we live in Intense Love, He gives us a Great Blessing (Jesus, Heaven, salvation from sin). He is TESTING our faith with a GREAT test. We pass the TEST when we obey Him and His Bible. (Genesis 22;1, 12) The TREMENDOUS test has TREMENDOUS consequences (an eternity with Jesus or Satan). “God is love.” And He wants us to be like Him. He wants to Love and be Loved.

3. We see few Physical Miracles, such as instant, blatant Divine Healings. But, think of the many changed lives that we see in the followers of Christ. When we “believe in our Lord Jesus Christ”, we obey His teachings and Commandments. And that “belief and obedience” results in astounding changes in our lives. We are in-dwelt by the Holy Spirit of God/Jesus, and the “fruit” of that in-dwelling Spirit is Love, Joy (gladness), Peace, Patience, (an even temper, forbearance), Kindness, Goodness, (benevolence), Faithfulness, (Meekness, humility) Gentleness, Self-control (self-restraint, continence). Galatians 5;22 Amplified Bible.
The Spiritual Miracles (such as the “born-again experience”) are far greater miracles than the physical miracles. Think of the GREAT difference between the gentle, helpful, wise, loving Christian,……. and the selfish, lazy, bitter, foolish un-believer. We must be “born again, a new Spiritual birth from Heaven”. The Holy Spirit causes us to be Spiritually alive towards Christ.

Ask Jesus to “Come into my heart” today.


Dennis


www.bible-codes.org
www.christian-forum.net
www.evangelicaloutreach.org
www.thebereancall.org

There is also a "Testimonies" section to these forums where people share their stories of how they met Jesus. God is a personal God, and so your experience with Him is going to be personal for you, and He will meet you right where you are.

God bless you in your search for Him, and I will pray for you.

hi~

the Christian God is not limited to Christians, but to all that receive Him by the blood of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ the blessed. of a truth, this God is much older & there is none like Him ~ the LORD God of Israel & before that, the LORD God of Abraham, of Isaac & of Jacob & before that, The LORD God of Noah, of Enoch, of Seth & of Adam since the beginning & before, for the LORD God is the first & the last of all things - possessor of heaven & earth. the earth, yea - He created it. You, yea - He created it. the lands, the seas, the beasts & creeping things - yea, He created it & what shall arrive at the appointed, yea - He shall make all things new.

that said, to this topic concerning calvanism & all these other 'isms that keep spawning here & there throughout the recent years, there is this to be said - hearken to the testimony of Paul in 1 Corinthians 1:11 - 18 & cling to the source that counts most - one Word, one LORD by the grace of His mercy upon the penitent.

~levite-7

...

be care ful you can only give out personal email adresses through a personal pm message not by leaving your email adress for everyone to see this person has brokken the rules by doing this and has exposed him self if he says he is genuine or not a troll it shows me they have not read the rules of this forum


if they want to discuss this they can do it on this board it shows me they have something to hide beren has not read the rules



damo

Thanks for the info researcher.
My friend got me to read a book by Sam Storms called Chosen for Life.

In re to another's post:
I am not trying to start an arguement with any one here with the poll. I am honestly just wanting to hear people's input.

Welcome.