Disasters/SIGNS hit when we persecute ISRAEL (both spiritual and physical Israel).

Which political candidate will hurt ISRAEL?

1. We are quickly approaching 9-11-08, the seven-year anniversary of the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, which occurred as Powell and a US delegation was preparing to depart for Israel to discuss land concessions towards the creation of a Palestinian state. Has the United States learned anything since 2001 with Hurricane Katrina, the loss of the Space Shuttle Columbia and other judgments which have occurred simultaneously during periods the U.S. has pressured Israel to concede covenant territory promised to her by God?……….(copied from TIMOTHY SNODGRASS)

Jesus hit the USA with the 9-11-01 disaster because the USA was hurting THE ELECT NATION ISRAEL.

2. Jesus destroyed New Orleans with hurricane Katrina , because the USA is hurting the ELECT NATION ISRAEL.

3. 40 days after Katrina/New Orleans, JESUS hit Northern Pakistan with the great earthquake, because Islam persecutes BOTH physical and spiritual ISRAEL.

SPIRITUAL ISRAEL = NT Christianity (Christ and Church).

4. the Dec 04 Tsunami hit Indonesia, because Islam persecutes both physical and spiritual ISRAEL.

There are many other examples of this phenomena.

The events in ELECT NATION ISRAEL are little pictures of the events of SPIRTUAL ISRAEL (the NT CHURCH).

The USA has persecuted SPIRITUAL ISRAEL (Christ and the NT Church) in the last 40 years, with the evolution-preaching to our little impressionable children in the Govt schools.

The world has persecuted SPIRITUAL ISRAEL, since 4000 years ago.
Abraham is the spiritual Father of the spiritual ISRAEL, in that he was the father of all believers.
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

My point is:


Which candidates have said that they will not hurt THE ELECT NATION ISRAEL?……and by extension, they will not hurt SPIRITUAL ISRAEL?

RON PAUL is the only Pres. Candidate that said that he will not pressure ISRAEL to give away the PROMISED LAND.

http://www.issues2000.org/Ron_Paul.htm

Ron Paul’s stand on FOREIGN POLICY
 Can't spread our goodness through the barrel of a gun. (Feb 2008)
 We tax people to blow up bridges overseas then rebuild them. (Jan 2008)
 Cut off all foreign aid to Israel & to Arabs. (Dec 2007)
 Get out of South Korea and let two Koreas unify. (Dec 2007)
 Bush humble foreign policy was hijacked into nation-building. (Dec 2007)
 US must obey treaties human rights abroad. (Dec 2007)
 Focus on the Iraq war and foreign policy. (Dec 2007)
 Stop interfering with Latin America; talk & trade instead. (Dec 2007)
 Empires usually end by spending too much to maintain empire. (Dec 2007)
 Stronger national defense by changing our foreign policy. (Nov 2007)
 No constitutional or moral authority for US action in Darfur. (Sep 2007)
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 Don't pressure Israel to give up land for promise of peace. (Sep 2007)
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 Not US role to monitor eradication of legal slavery in Sudan. (Sep 2007)
 Avoid ratifying Law of the Sea Treaty. (Sep 2007)
 Right to spread our values, but wrong to spread by force. (Aug 2007)
 Interventionism perpetuated by politician's false patriotism. (Jun 2007)
 No foreign aid; no treaties that commit US to future wars. (Jun 2007)
 Our foreign policy is designed to protect our oil interests. (Jun 2007)
 Bush mistake: ran on humble foreign policy; now runs empire. (Jun 2007)
 Non-intervention is traditional American & Republican policy. (May 2007)
 Avoid double standard--follow international law. (Jun 2006)
 No nation-building; no world policeman; no pre-emptive war. (Jan 2006)
 UN membership leads to impractical military conflicts. (Feb 2003)
 Neutrality on Israel-Palestine; start by defunding both. (Dec 2001)
 Policy of non-intervention, neutrality, & independence. (Dec 1987)
 $140B to protect Europe creates competitive disadvantage. (Dec 1987)
 Foreign aid helps dictators, not the people of aided country. (Dec 1987)
 Voted NO on deterring foreign arms transfers to China. (Jul 2005)
 Voted NO on reforming the UN by restricting US funding. (Jun 2005)
 Voted YES on keeping Cuba travel ban until political prisoners released. (Jul 2001)
 Voted YES on withholding $244M in UN Back Payments until US seat restored. (May 2001)
 Voted NO on $156M to IMF for 3rd-world debt reduction. (Jul 2000)
 Voted NO on Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China. (May 2000)
 Voted NO on $15.2 billion for foreign operations. (Nov 1999)
 Allow Americans to travel to Cuba. (May 2000)
 Foreign aid often more harmful than helpful . (Dec 2000)
 Ban foreign aid to oil-producers who restrict production. (May 2001)
 Sponsored bill invalidating International Criminal Court. (Mar 2003)
 Sponsored bill to end the Cuban embargo. (Apr 2003)
 Sponsored resolution to withdraw from UNESCO. (Jun 2004)

Physical (natural) and Spiritual Israel are the people of God...wherever they are.
The place that was created by the God (UN) in 1948 is not Israel. Though there are a few people of God in this place called "Israel"
Israel is a person not a place.
There were sodomite parades in "Israel" just a couple years ago.
Hebrew people had their land ripped away from them by their own secular "Israeli" government and given nothing in return for 2 and 3 generations of labor.
Was this a blessing or a curse? Who are they serving in this capacity? God or Satan?

At best Israel has become some kind of zoo exhibit. People flock there every year to get their fix of "Jerusalem syndrome" To walk where Jesus walked....
Yet they wont do this at home. Oh they will flap their trap doors and bump their gums and when they do get to the "holy land" they are still the same unholy religious pigs they were when they left the U.S or whereever they came from.

God does indeed have a special claim and interest to the Real Estate of Jerusalem. But no more or less a claim than he has to Mt. Sinai or Jabel El Laws or the entire earth for that matter.

People need to quit trying to make an idol out of a nation of people that have rejected Yahshua and have taken upon themselves a profound curse that will not be removed until they say "blessed is he that commeth in the name of the Lord".
I hurt in my heart for the people of Yah, as Paul said "I could wish that I myself were accursed" but also said "since ye deem yourselves unworthy of eternal life, lo we turn to the Gentiles."

Trying to remove the provocation of jealousy will not save these people.
Do the works of Christ and the spirit of jealousy will do its job in opening all of the eyes that were ordained to be opened.

That is the marker. They will say it and the house of Judah and house of Israel (Jew and Christian) will become one in His hand. Probably not much longer now.

most people in israel today are atheists,,,,,,,,,,they don't believe the OT or the NT

but, that is the FULFILLMENT OF ANCIENT BIBLE PROPHECY:.........the bible tells us that they will return to the LAND in un-belief,,,,,,,and soon, they will believe in Christ.....in the ENDTIMES

after the end of the AGE OF THE GENTILES,,,,,,,,in the ENDTIMES, Daniel's 70th week, THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE..........God will remember the ELECT NATION ISRAEL


THE NATION ISRAEL has been a SIGN AND WONDER to the world for 4000 years,,,,,,,,and it still is,,,,,,,,,we are still learning from that nation

when they believe, they are blessed and saved.

when they dis-believe and dis-obey,,,,,,,God curses them

It's the same for SPIRITUAL ISRAEL (THE NT CHURCH)


the jews are not special to God because they are faithful or smart or loving, or righteous (they're not thsoe things)..............

the jews are special to God because of the "fathers", abe, issac, jacob/israel



Joel 3;2
God will gather ALL nations into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will punish them for their treatment (hatred, Anti-Semitism, persecution, murders, etc) of God’s people (the nation Israel), and because they have divided My (God’s) land (the land of Israel).

Joel 3;20 Judah shall remain and be inhabited FOR EVER! And Jerusalem from generation to generation. (Apparently, the people will have children and grandchildren, and “generations”).

God has NEVER BEFORE gathered ALL nations into the valley of Jehoshaphat …………So, we know that this is a Future Event.


Zechariah 12;9-10 Amplified Bible
ALL nations will come against Jerusalem, and God will destroy them. (including the USA).

There has never been a time when ALL nations came against Jerusalem, and God destroyed them……….So, we know that this is a Future Event!

Verse 10
God will pour upon the family of David and Jerusalem “the Spirit of Grace (the Holy Spirit)”……….And the “house of David and Jerusalem (the nation Israel) will LOOK upon the “pierced” Son of God (Jesus) ,…and mourn, and be in bitterness, ………..(verse 11) the nation Israel will recognize “their once crucified Messiah Him Who has come to reign (in Jerusalem)”.

Verse 13
The [priestly] family of Levi will recognize the Messiah,……..and mourn

Repeating from above………this is a Future Event!


My point is:
Many Israelis have returned to their homeland, and they declared their nation-hood in 1948.
Many believe that this is a Miracle from God,……. And fulfillment of ancient Bible-prophecies.
Yet, they are currently enemies of the Cross , and many Israelis don’t believe the OT. They’re NOT Heaven-bound. Only a few Israelis are born-again NT Saints.
So,………..How can the re-gathering of Israel be a Miracle from God, and a fulfillment of the ancient Bible-prophecies? Most of them reject their Messiah (currently).

The Bible indicates that the nation Israel will be re-gathered IN UN-BELIEF! In the Promised Land!
Zechariah 12;9-10 and 13;1
As stated above, Israel will be brought back to the Land, and ALL the nations will gather against Jerusalem, and Jerusalem (Israel) will recognize IN THAT DAY that the crucified Jesus is their Messiah, and “ALL Israel shall be saved” (they will see Jesus PHYSICALLY with their Physical vision). (Romans 11;26)

So,……..if Israel converted to Christianity BEFORE the re-gathering back in the Promised Land, that would contradict the Bible! Again, the Bible is TRUE! Wow!!!

From Dave Hunt’s book “JUDGEMENT DAY! ISLAM, ISRAEL, AND THE NATIONS”, 3rd edition
www.thebereancall.org
THANKS! To Dave Hunt! dennis

I am so glad that God will not wait for the elections.

?

Sounds like another proclaimation of doom????? Judgement????

What does the Bible say we are to do with a FALSE PROPHET??????

This is just another small observation about the whole Israel thing.

We have this so called Judeo-christian element saying that "the Jews are God's chosen people" and then they won't even keep the sabbath themselves. Is this talking out of both sides of the neck or what?
In the O.T. If a dog or syrophenecian wanted to become Israel he would accept the laws, precepts, and observances of Israel.

Jesus said:
MATTHEW 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
MATTHEW 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
So Jesus commanded us to observe all things that he commanded us to observe.

What are we commanded to observe?

Let see what one of those things are that Jesus commanded us to observe.

MATTHEW 23:2
Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

MATTHEW 23:3
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

So I am saying that if you are not going to observe what Jesus commanded us to do, then why are we even concerned about welfare of God's chosen or elect when we ourselves are not going to do a thing he says anyway?

Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, decieving yourselves!
Since this is the condition of the "church" is there any need of further cursing?

Gen 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
Gen 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Gen 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
Gen 13:17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.
Gen 13:18 Then Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the LORD.

God gave the PROMISED LAND, ISRAEL to Abraham and his seed FOREVER.......EVERLASTING UN-CONDITIONAL GIFT

GOD has an everlasting plan for the ELECT NATION ISRAEL.........INTO ETERNITY FUTURE, FOREVER

the physical Nation is (mostly) in un-belief , now,,,,,,,,but God will fix that soon.

Read the Bible

[quote name='dennis mann' date='Sep 6 2008, 06:53 PM' post='232726']
Gen 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
Gen 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Gen 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
Gen 13:17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.
Gen 13:18 Then Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the LORD.

God gave the PROMISED LAND, ISRAEL to Abraham and his seed FOREVER.......EVERLASTING UN-CONDITIONAL GIFT

GOD has an everlasting plan for the ELECT NATION ISRAEL.........INTO ETERNITY FUTURE, FOREVER

the physical Nation is (mostly) in un-belief , now,,,,,,,,but God will fix that soon.

Read the Bible
[/quote

I am his seed and I thank him for it.
Pray do tell where I might find the word or phrase "un-conditional" in the bible that I have not read?
I have read plenty in a book I thought was the bible and it shows plenty of conditions to the promises of God.
"If ye continue in my word then are ye my disciples indeed" Sounds like a condition to me.
The covenants and promises were made with Abraham and to his seed, not many seeds but one even Christ.
As for the rest of us, there are plenty of conditions. They usually start with "If" denoting that there are conditions to enter into the covenant as a beneficiary. One of those conditions is obedience.

in Genesis, God gave the PROMISED LAND to Abe and his seed forever...........
God did NOT tell Abe that they must love/obey/behave/believe/anything else.............to keep the LAND


in Exodus, God made a deal with ISRAEL (nation),,,,,,,,,,the Nation would obey the MOSAIC LAW, and God would do certain things,,,,,,,,,,,so , the LAW OF MOSES was condiotional,,,,,,,,,,,and it had a self-destruct clause...........(when THAT PROPHET[JESUS] comes, listen to Him),,,,,,,,,,,,and Jesus said that the MOSAIC LAW vanished 1900 years ago


but, GOD'S PROMISE to Abe, concerning the LAND, was un-conditional , and FOREVER, INTO ETERNITY FUTURE

Gen 15:3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

HERE, abe's seed is his children, grandchildren, all following generations forever

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Gen 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Gen 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.



here, Abe's Seed is Christ alone.

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.



Heb 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
Heb 6:14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
Heb 6:15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.


Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

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so, the LAND was promised to Abe and all his descendants (seed) from his loins,,,,,,,,,infinite multitude!

the Promise that Abe's SEED (CHRIST) would be a Blessing to all nations of the earth,,,,,,concerns ONLY 1 Person (SEED, CHRIST).

Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice

BOTH OF these promises were un-conditional.


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the LAW OF MOSES was conditional,,,,,,,and lasted only until Acts 2 Pentecost........then it vanished