Some say here that salvation is a fleeting thing. I find myselff genuinely unconvinced. Saved should be saved. The free gift. But some say there are caveats to receiving the gift. Like if you win a trip to Disney Land and then you read the fine print. Good between certain dates maybe, Or "not to be sold by end user." Or "Tips not included." That kind of idea. There are things to know and declare. The old favourite hymn, "Amazing Grace" says in a stanza, "I once was lost but now am found." Yet from here we go round the Mulberry bush. There are many questions of import to the way of this life. Most of them deal with peripheral issues to the salvation plan. Yet this one thing...this cliff hanger...this comprehension program of a comprehensive program. Is it for truth or is it a spoof? Do we preach salvation and that not of ourselves (it is the gift of God...Eph 2:8) or do we subscribe to the "IF" scriptures? Those are kinda scary scriptures. I do not want to digress in spewing word after word that loses functionality in a moment by raising other questions. But this one here has been a thriller and maybe killer.... Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister....
Pro 16:31 The hoary head [is] a crown of glory, [if] it be found in the way of righteousness. I said that by the standard of law based religiosity which declares that I must perform at a certain level or risk an ignomious doom. That is why I love to hate the law. It condemns me from the starting gate. If Jesus died to win my freedom and subsequently restore my life, then I feel I do not have to take it back to the "found and lost" department at Wallmart. If I recall, they have a no questions asked return policy. If God does aslo then I am of all men most miserable. Like I found a shopping cart in th eparking lot and it had a thing in it that came from th estore and so I return it and expect a blessing for my honesty.
Yet one needs to be aware that obedience to the faith has requisite obedience to doctrine. I would not contest that. But the level of obedience is apparently at a level of awareness. Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes]. Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
But stripes aren't fire....they may hurt but....anyways this is an age old Portnoy's complaint but what else do I have to do?
Portnoy's Complaint: A disorder in which strongly-felt ethical and altruistic impulses are perpetually warring with extreme longings, often of a perverse nature...
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us: 2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
I am sure this will settle in with a lot of anti OSAS replies but I am needing to see the larger piciure. All I know is I felt that I am supposed to post a post called "Saved And Lost."
Full Version: Found And Lost
Christ knows everything we will do before we do it. He has intervened for us. When he died for our sins he died for all of them.
QUOTE (Miki @ Sep 4 2008, 08:57 AM) 
Christ knows everything we will do before we do it. He has intervened for us. When he died for our sins he died for all of them.
Yabut crowd enters stage left....
QUOTE
Yabut crowd enters stage left....
Uh, I guess that would be me.........(approaching center stage)
Well, do we learn from those before us with regard to this particular issue?
Such as:
Hebrews 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you will hear His voice, 8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. 10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' 11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.' " 12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Col. 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
What is it, to be cut off?
It seems to be about persevering and continuing. Which is what Jesus and Paul continually spoke of.
QUOTE
Have we considered the cost? Do we realize how vital enduring is/will be? We've got to consider the cost NOW! As I studied the following passages, one REALLY stood out:
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mr 4:17 - Show Context
And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
Mr 13:13 - Show Context
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
2Th 1:4 - Show Context
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Ti 2:3 - Show Context
Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2Ti 2:10 - Show Context
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2Ti 4:3 - Show Context
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:5 - Show Context
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Heb 12:7 - Show Context
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:20 - Show Context
(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Jas 5:11 - Show Context
Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
1Pe 2:19 - Show Context
For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
I want to be sure that I do not endure, just for "a time". I want to continually consider the cost and endure for "eternity". This can only be done, if we abide in Christ Jesus, Whose Name is The Word.
Have you considered enduring, and how far it will take you? I am reminded continually of what the Father says to His child..............about enduring.
When we think that our opposition has become great, we are reminded that we have not had to endure the shedding of "our" blood.
Hebrews 12:3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls.
4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.
This is my word of encouragement to you.
In His Love,
Suzanne
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mr 4:17 - Show Context
And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
Mr 13:13 - Show Context
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
2Th 1:4 - Show Context
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Ti 2:3 - Show Context
Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2Ti 2:10 - Show Context
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2Ti 4:3 - Show Context
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:5 - Show Context
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Heb 12:7 - Show Context
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:20 - Show Context
(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Jas 5:11 - Show Context
Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
1Pe 2:19 - Show Context
For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
I want to be sure that I do not endure, just for "a time". I want to continually consider the cost and endure for "eternity". This can only be done, if we abide in Christ Jesus, Whose Name is The Word.
Have you considered enduring, and how far it will take you? I am reminded continually of what the Father says to His child..............about enduring.
When we think that our opposition has become great, we are reminded that we have not had to endure the shedding of "our" blood.
Hebrews 12:3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls.
4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.
This is my word of encouragement to you.
In His Love,
Suzanne
I just wanted to add that:
If you didn't endure, then you didn't have REAL faith. (Think about the parable of the seeds)
In His Love,
Suzanne
If you didn't endure, then you didn't have REAL faith. (Think about the parable of the seeds)
In His Love,
Suzanne
I don't know that I am understanding your original post as well as I ought.
With regard to faith, I tend to believe that we will be subject to trial, or waxing and waning. I am aware of many people who have lost their faith and had no idea why it suddenly left them. Having visited with many of them, and some still searching for God, or wondering off the path for a time or indefinitely, I am most certain that God resides within those people as well.
I have also come to an understanding that I would expect God having the ability to discern intent.
I find myself being pressured by organized religion to do works that are not specific to my heart. Some I do quietly for the greater good, but find the organizers of these works stifiling and missing the entire point, especially to those, and their works, that are born of love for God and others. Additionally, I feel empathy for those that sit in church with little direction that fall victim of this scenerio. To make this shorter, I am at a point that I am not believing that this church organization is from God. I know when God moves and directs me, and I am becoming much more at peace with following HIS direction. Again, I think we can take comfort in knowing that Jesus identifies.....even if we get off the path honestly....
I am sorry if this does not is in context with your OP, but I felt the need to answer.
Sincerely,
Ed
With regard to faith, I tend to believe that we will be subject to trial, or waxing and waning. I am aware of many people who have lost their faith and had no idea why it suddenly left them. Having visited with many of them, and some still searching for God, or wondering off the path for a time or indefinitely, I am most certain that God resides within those people as well.
I have also come to an understanding that I would expect God having the ability to discern intent.
I find myself being pressured by organized religion to do works that are not specific to my heart. Some I do quietly for the greater good, but find the organizers of these works stifiling and missing the entire point, especially to those, and their works, that are born of love for God and others. Additionally, I feel empathy for those that sit in church with little direction that fall victim of this scenerio. To make this shorter, I am at a point that I am not believing that this church organization is from God. I know when God moves and directs me, and I am becoming much more at peace with following HIS direction. Again, I think we can take comfort in knowing that Jesus identifies.....even if we get off the path honestly....
I am sorry if this does not is in context with your OP, but I felt the need to answer.
Sincerely,
Ed
QUOTE (end3 @ Sep 4 2008, 04:08 PM)
I don't know that I am understanding your original post as well as I ought.
With regard to faith, I tend to believe that we will be subject to trial, or waxing and waning. I am aware of many people who have lost their faith and had no idea why it suddenly left them. Having visited with many of them, and some still searching for God, or wondering off the path for a time or indefinitely, I am most certain that God resides within those people as well.
I have also come to an understanding that I would expect God having the ability to discern intent.
I find myself being pressured by organized religion to do works that are not specific to my heart. Some I do quietly for the greater good, but find the organizers of these works stifiling and missing the entire point, especially to those, and their works, that are born of love for God and others. Additionally, I feel empathy for those that sit in church with little direction that fall victim of this scenerio. To make this shorter, I am at a point that I am not believing that this church organization is from God. I know when God moves and directs me, and I am becoming much more at peace with following HIS direction. Again, I think we can take comfort in knowing that Jesus identifies.....even if we get off the path honestly....
I am sorry if this does not is in context with your OP, but I felt the need to answer.
Sincerely,
Ed
With regard to faith, I tend to believe that we will be subject to trial, or waxing and waning. I am aware of many people who have lost their faith and had no idea why it suddenly left them. Having visited with many of them, and some still searching for God, or wondering off the path for a time or indefinitely, I am most certain that God resides within those people as well.
I have also come to an understanding that I would expect God having the ability to discern intent.
I find myself being pressured by organized religion to do works that are not specific to my heart. Some I do quietly for the greater good, but find the organizers of these works stifiling and missing the entire point, especially to those, and their works, that are born of love for God and others. Additionally, I feel empathy for those that sit in church with little direction that fall victim of this scenerio. To make this shorter, I am at a point that I am not believing that this church organization is from God. I know when God moves and directs me, and I am becoming much more at peace with following HIS direction. Again, I think we can take comfort in knowing that Jesus identifies.....even if we get off the path honestly....
I am sorry if this does not is in context with your OP, but I felt the need to answer.
Sincerely,
Ed
I hear you here...
QUOTE (tsth @ Sep 4 2008, 10:44 AM)
QUOTE
Yabut crowd enters stage left....
Uh, I guess that would be me.........(approaching center stage) In His Love, Suzanne
What made me know you would be?
Sorry for snipping I am just in from work and too tired to think any deeper but I will be back.
Here is what I believe, and I think this is very much in line with Scripture:
We are 3-fold beings. Spirit, soul, body. When we, according to Romans 9, decide to believe in our hearts that God did indeed raise Jesus from the dead, and then we confess Him as Lord, our spirits become born again, and we are made one with Him. Our sin is forgiven, and removed by His blood. Past, present and future. We must be born again. That's not an option, it's a requirement. Jesus said so, and He is always right.
Then there is the matter of our soul (mind, will, emotions) which, after our spirits are born again, enters into the process of being saved. This is a long-term thing, and according to Scripture, the end of our faith is the salvation of our souls, which will be completed when we are face to face with our Savior, and we stop seeing through a mirror darkly, but instead see clearly. Finally. This is something I'm personally looking forward to! The salvation of our souls is worked out in our daily lives by choosing to lay aside the works of the flesh and walking in the spirit instead. Choosing to disagree with the lies our human nature has believed, and learning the truth of His Word, day by day, week after week, month after month, year after year. We are admonished to examine ourselves regularly to see if we are in the faith, and to remove our faith from places it doesn't belong, and place it all into God Himself. The issue is usually not the amount of our faith (because God has given everyone a measure of it), but where we choose to place the faith we have.
Then there's our bodies, who are corrupt, yet necessary to live on this sin-beset planet, and are pretty much dying from the day we're born. Which is fine, because the seed falls into the ground upon death, and the corruptible is replaced by the incorruptible (i.e. glorified bodies which we need to live in heaven in His glory for all eternity).
However, according to Hebrews 6, it is possible to taste salvation, and yet perish. I'm not sure how that happens, but the Word does state that it's possible to pull back and walk away. However, that's not an easy feat because the grip of His Spirit upon salvation is strong. So one would have to do so willingly, and knowingly, treading underfoot the blood of the Covenant by which they were saved and count the sacrifice of Jesus as a common thing. This is so because there is no other thing in the universe except for the blood of Jesus to remove sin. So if we willingly walk away from that, then there is nothing else left, and the end is the Second Death, which is the Lake of Fire. Sure, that's scary, but our fallen nature needs strong admonishing and reminders to keep us going, because it just doesn't enjoy obeying God the way our spirits do. This is how I understand it, and if I'm wrong, then feel free to correct me. However, this does not apply to our daily struggles against our old nature in our desire to obey God and work out our salvation with fear and trembling. The foundation of our salvation has to be God's grace and the blood of Jesus. As long as we stand on that, we are going to be fine. He who saved us, is well able to keep us.
If you need concrete Scripture reference, I'll be happy to provide them.
We are 3-fold beings. Spirit, soul, body. When we, according to Romans 9, decide to believe in our hearts that God did indeed raise Jesus from the dead, and then we confess Him as Lord, our spirits become born again, and we are made one with Him. Our sin is forgiven, and removed by His blood. Past, present and future. We must be born again. That's not an option, it's a requirement. Jesus said so, and He is always right.
Then there is the matter of our soul (mind, will, emotions) which, after our spirits are born again, enters into the process of being saved. This is a long-term thing, and according to Scripture, the end of our faith is the salvation of our souls, which will be completed when we are face to face with our Savior, and we stop seeing through a mirror darkly, but instead see clearly. Finally. This is something I'm personally looking forward to! The salvation of our souls is worked out in our daily lives by choosing to lay aside the works of the flesh and walking in the spirit instead. Choosing to disagree with the lies our human nature has believed, and learning the truth of His Word, day by day, week after week, month after month, year after year. We are admonished to examine ourselves regularly to see if we are in the faith, and to remove our faith from places it doesn't belong, and place it all into God Himself. The issue is usually not the amount of our faith (because God has given everyone a measure of it), but where we choose to place the faith we have.
Then there's our bodies, who are corrupt, yet necessary to live on this sin-beset planet, and are pretty much dying from the day we're born. Which is fine, because the seed falls into the ground upon death, and the corruptible is replaced by the incorruptible (i.e. glorified bodies which we need to live in heaven in His glory for all eternity).
However, according to Hebrews 6, it is possible to taste salvation, and yet perish. I'm not sure how that happens, but the Word does state that it's possible to pull back and walk away. However, that's not an easy feat because the grip of His Spirit upon salvation is strong. So one would have to do so willingly, and knowingly, treading underfoot the blood of the Covenant by which they were saved and count the sacrifice of Jesus as a common thing. This is so because there is no other thing in the universe except for the blood of Jesus to remove sin. So if we willingly walk away from that, then there is nothing else left, and the end is the Second Death, which is the Lake of Fire. Sure, that's scary, but our fallen nature needs strong admonishing and reminders to keep us going, because it just doesn't enjoy obeying God the way our spirits do. This is how I understand it, and if I'm wrong, then feel free to correct me. However, this does not apply to our daily struggles against our old nature in our desire to obey God and work out our salvation with fear and trembling. The foundation of our salvation has to be God's grace and the blood of Jesus. As long as we stand on that, we are going to be fine. He who saved us, is well able to keep us.
If you need concrete Scripture reference, I'll be happy to provide them.
QUOTE (Looking Up @ Sep 4 2008, 10:06 PM)
Here is what I believe, and I think this is very much in line with Scripture:
We are 3-fold beings. Spirit, soul, body. When we, according to Romans 9, decide to believe in our hearts that God did indeed raise Jesus from the dead, and then we confess Him as Lord, our spirits become born again, and we are made one with Him. Our sin is forgiven, and removed by His blood. Past, present and future. We must be born again. That's not an option, it's a requirement. Jesus said so, and He is always right.
Then there is the matter of our soul (mind, will, emotions) which, after our spirits are born again, enters into the process of being saved. This is a long-term thing, and according to Scripture, the end of our faith is the salvation of our souls, which will be completed when we are face to face with our Savior, and we stop seeing through a mirror darkly, but instead see clearly. Finally. This is something I'm personally looking forward to! The salvation of our souls is worked out in our daily lives by choosing to lay aside the works of the flesh and walking in the spirit instead. Choosing to disagree with the lies our human nature has believed, and learning the truth of His Word, day by day, week after week, month after month, year after year. We are admonished to examine ourselves regularly to see if we are in the faith, and to remove our faith from places it doesn't belong, and place it all into God Himself. The issue is usually not the amount of our faith (because God has given everyone a measure of it), but where we choose to place the faith we have.
Then there's our bodies, who are corrupt, yet necessary to live on this sin-beset planet, and are pretty much dying from the day we're born. Which is fine, because the seed falls into the ground upon death, and the corruptible is replaced by the incorruptible (i.e. glorified bodies which we need to live in heaven in His glory for all eternity).
However, according to Hebrews 6, it is possible to taste salvation, and yet perish. I'm not sure how that happens, but the Word does state that it's possible to pull back and walk away. However, that's not an easy feat because the grip of His Spirit upon salvation is strong. So one would have to do so willingly, and knowingly, treading underfoot the blood of the Covenant by which they were saved and count the sacrifice of Jesus as a common thing. This is so because there is no other thing in the universe except for the blood of Jesus to remove sin. So if we willingly walk away from that, then there is nothing else left, and the end is the Second Death, which is the Lake of Fire. Sure, that's scary, but our fallen nature needs strong admonishing and reminders to keep us going, because it just doesn't enjoy obeying God the way our spirits do. This is how I understand it, and if I'm wrong, then feel free to correct me. However, this does not apply to our daily struggles against our old nature in our desire to obey God and work out our salvation with fear and trembling. The foundation of our salvation has to be God's grace and the blood of Jesus. As long as we stand on that, we are going to be fine. He who saved us, is well able to keep us.
If you need concrete Scripture reference, I'll be happy to provide them.
We are 3-fold beings. Spirit, soul, body. When we, according to Romans 9, decide to believe in our hearts that God did indeed raise Jesus from the dead, and then we confess Him as Lord, our spirits become born again, and we are made one with Him. Our sin is forgiven, and removed by His blood. Past, present and future. We must be born again. That's not an option, it's a requirement. Jesus said so, and He is always right.
Then there is the matter of our soul (mind, will, emotions) which, after our spirits are born again, enters into the process of being saved. This is a long-term thing, and according to Scripture, the end of our faith is the salvation of our souls, which will be completed when we are face to face with our Savior, and we stop seeing through a mirror darkly, but instead see clearly. Finally. This is something I'm personally looking forward to! The salvation of our souls is worked out in our daily lives by choosing to lay aside the works of the flesh and walking in the spirit instead. Choosing to disagree with the lies our human nature has believed, and learning the truth of His Word, day by day, week after week, month after month, year after year. We are admonished to examine ourselves regularly to see if we are in the faith, and to remove our faith from places it doesn't belong, and place it all into God Himself. The issue is usually not the amount of our faith (because God has given everyone a measure of it), but where we choose to place the faith we have.
Then there's our bodies, who are corrupt, yet necessary to live on this sin-beset planet, and are pretty much dying from the day we're born. Which is fine, because the seed falls into the ground upon death, and the corruptible is replaced by the incorruptible (i.e. glorified bodies which we need to live in heaven in His glory for all eternity).
However, according to Hebrews 6, it is possible to taste salvation, and yet perish. I'm not sure how that happens, but the Word does state that it's possible to pull back and walk away. However, that's not an easy feat because the grip of His Spirit upon salvation is strong. So one would have to do so willingly, and knowingly, treading underfoot the blood of the Covenant by which they were saved and count the sacrifice of Jesus as a common thing. This is so because there is no other thing in the universe except for the blood of Jesus to remove sin. So if we willingly walk away from that, then there is nothing else left, and the end is the Second Death, which is the Lake of Fire. Sure, that's scary, but our fallen nature needs strong admonishing and reminders to keep us going, because it just doesn't enjoy obeying God the way our spirits do. This is how I understand it, and if I'm wrong, then feel free to correct me. However, this does not apply to our daily struggles against our old nature in our desire to obey God and work out our salvation with fear and trembling. The foundation of our salvation has to be God's grace and the blood of Jesus. As long as we stand on that, we are going to be fine. He who saved us, is well able to keep us.
If you need concrete Scripture reference, I'll be happy to provide them.
You say well Looking Up...indeed well....
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