Ok, to start off, I and my family are Baptist, and prefer a contemporary style of worship.

Right now, we are visiting some family, and today we went to a Methodist church. I noticed a large emphasis on traditional ideas and worship, and didn't really agree with it. The service included reciting the Apostle's Creed, Doxology, certain song prayers, etc.. And it seems like they repeat the same things every week. Don't get me wrong, these statements of faith are great and have a place, but I wonder if some people get too caught up in this tradition and miss the whole point of going to church. In the church we regularly visit, we don't have many traditions like that, but some in the church think that the organ is necessary, and we have to sing older style songs or we aren't worshipping.

Another thing I noticed was the way salvation is approached. In our church, there is an altar call every week where the pastor and other leaders stand down front and people walk up and share their decisions (accepting Christ, baptism, membership, general prayer, etc..). In the Methodist church, they mentioned the altar is open if you want to come pray, but there wasn't a real invitation to come down for whatever reason, it was just a side note.

I have noticed this in a lot of churches. It is like they are trying to keep "status quo" rather than encouraging people to accept Christ. In contrast, one church in our city is clearly there just to get unsaved visitors and save them, then send them out as missionaries. I think this second one is the attitude all churches should have, but even the Baptist church we attend doesn't show this attitude. You can tell with the music and worship style that it is quite often about keeping a certain group happy rather than bringing people to Christ.

What are your thoughts on this? Have we drifted that far from the New Testament church that Jesus calls us to have?

Please note, I am not trying to bash any certain group, and I don't want this to be a flame war over churches.

Yes, I think today's church is nothing like that of the NT church. Read how Paul instructed those he was discipling, to go and start churches. How to choose the leaders. How to discipline within the body. None of it is practiced in today's church. So, most likely your contemporary church is nothing like the original church. Just as an example this thread is about a practice and teaching that is no longer adhered to:

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=22647


This is just one practice of many that have been abandoned.

In His Love,
Suzanne

23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. 1 Corinthians 14:23-26.

This is a description of church gatherings in the beginning. It appears that there was a whole lot more group participation than the traditional church services today which leave no room for the body to really edify one another that much. While preaching and teaching from leaders is essential, the rest of the body is supposed to have ample opportunity to actively participate in the gathering. "Each one" comes with something to offer from God.

Every congregation has their style and traditions; the Church that I attend and was baptized in do not have and never had an alter call. We don't always sing traditional songs, though we at one time wrote our own hymns, but tend to keep up with the latest modern Christian songs. We don't use hymnals like we did a few years ago, but use a projector to project the words on a screen. Even though we have an offering every week we are not told to we must give ten percent of the gross of our income....we are free to give as much as we are able and limited to a tenth for those who would like and can afford to give more.

And starting recently, we had so far two lay man's service, in which selected lay people are ask to give sermons. Traditions can be good and they can be bad, so we need to be carful not to make traditions the reason and purpose for Christianity. Christianity is not an end in itself but a journey that starts when we first became converted. Our destiny is beyond this life to spend eternity with God, the Father, God, the Son and God, the Holy Spirit in a deep and intimate relationship that only they know and have. We are destined to rule over all things with God and expand His kingdom beyond the boundary of the earth and into the universe and beyond that too. We were made to not only represent God but to have God in us, whom is unseen, (though I believe when we are in glory we will be able to see God the way He is) so that future creations will come to know God and see God in us because of our righteousness and service in how we rule over them and the universe. This is what gets me exited; I can’t wait to travel to distance stars, planets and galaxy serving God by doing what He started when He first uttered words that cause things to come into existence. Thanks God that we will not be anymore be bound by space and time, or be confined to the Earth, even though the Earth will be our home, but we will be truly free to do whatever we desire. As the song says, “what a mighty God we serve.”

so what are you going to do are you going to slap your views on others and say we should be seeking the old ways ?

it amazes me when some one shares something which is from the heart and what they have observed and in comes the judgmental spirit trying its hardest to destroy what christ is doing in a person

i know were igarratt is comming from my mothers side is roman catholic and my dads side orthadox

i have sat in traditional churches and seen why people like what traditional churches offer


speaking for my self i like the church i am in know when i am working abroad and i like our way of preaching when i am in the philippines we have 5 churches planted we are a 4th square church very charasmatic penticostal

i like hearing the prophetic word preached i like the style of worship we bring into the church no hyms no old organ playing

i like the new style of worship that is being introduced to us by some of the best worship leaders


what i dont like hearing is todays churches are nothing like the New testament church well the first church paul planted had its problems and paul had to be called back


1 corinthians English standard version


10 i appeal to you brothers by the name of our lord jesus christ that all of you agree and that there be no divisons among you but that you be united in the same mind and same judgment


11 For it has been reported to me by chloes people that there is quarrelling among you my brothers


do you really want your church to be like what the new testament church use to be ? i know were tsth is comming from i am use to what tsth leaves if you tend to agree with tsth then you would say you would be ok with what happend in acts and you would also be ok with what the spirit was doing among the apostles

if some one lied that person would drop dead right in front of the disciples and the disciples would have them removed

christians back in those days sold everything they had they also oppened up their homes they ate they read gods word together broke bread and helped any one in need and daily god added to their group they put what they heard preached into action men were men back in those days people were set free

by tsth saying shame our churches are not like the new testament church would she then handle being submissive by me saying submissive silent back in thos days women were not alowed to speak or say a thing while the sunday morning service was being led by a male

if you tend to hunger for what happend in the past what changes are you willing to make in your own life ?

today women have more freedom then the women who were members of the first church paul planted they had to be silent and if they had a question they would have to weight until the service finished and were at home to were the husband then can respond as men were seen as the priests of their house holds

today i dont see this may be if i was to go to israel i would see this


i like the way filapinos do things filapinos dont do what the mega churches are doing but knowing my luck some one wil say are you sure you are a true christian


with traditional churches from what i have observed is members are like robbots they are not allowed to express them selves



so before we go pointing the finger becare full you might just have some one question what you leave


what god does in a church or in a persons life is non of your concern





God bless from damo

Our world have changed since the early Christians; most people back then and very likely many Christians worked for themselves or if they work for someone work within the same aria that they attend service. People did not work the way we do; people even while working could socialize with each other. We live in a capitalistic time where time and money is virtually seen as the same thing. So when one works for a company maximizing company time is paramount, so by the time work is over many of us are too exhausted to do much after; we live for the week end. This is Satan's doing, but I believe that God is about to take care of that problem. In times of crisis or persecution Christians do there best work.

I like those ideas about the music and preaching, that is pretty cool.

I didn't really mean that we should necessarily go back to the New Testament church, but I think that their way of worship was much more from the heart than a lot (not always true) of what you see today.

You mentioned the tithing idea. I have never been in a church that would say you must give "x" amount or you can't come here (or something to that effect). I have heard of it though, and I think that is a bad practice. Things like tithing and other worship should be from the heart, as God leads you.

damo7: I don't think anyone was trying to say we should or should not be seeking the "old ways".

tsth: I honestly never really heard the practice of not associating with believers willfully committing sin put that way. It makes a lot of sense though. We would not have near as many problems in the church today if that passage was taught more accurately.

Eli: Thanks for sharing those verses, that is definitely the way we as a church should be. I would pray that the unbelievers who walk through the doors of my church can see God presented in that way.

Agreed, "each one" has something to offer. Sadly some pharisees today do to the law of Jesus what pharisees of old did to the law of Moises.

They take the pulpit, and only they have the truth, they hear no one else and when servants go and try to share a word from God they get looked at as a trouble maker or are invited to leave the said church.

In Jesus day, in synagogues, they would invite the people to comment on scriptures, Jesus was an example of this.

Today religious leaders don't really care about what servants think, the leaven is amazing.

what i have observed since i have been a christian some christians cant handle a penticostal or charasmatic or apostolic service so they tend to stick to the churches they feel comfterbal with


for example i am flexibale i can sit in a traditional service follow all its guide lines and do what ever is expected of me i dont question or do i rock the boat every christmas i wil go to the midnight service the aglican church holds i noticed that not many penticostal and charasmatic and apostolic and evangelical churches will offer this service for its members were they hold a midnight service

in the philippines we do this in our churches we planted

when i was in the philippines early this year i noticed were the new church my partner planted the town celebrates sevral diffrent festivals due to the main church which is catholic holding these events and when these festivals are held in the town the whole town closses and every one gets involved

La castellana holds a light festival and it holds a dead saints festival were all the dead saints are honored


our church refueses to participate and a letter was sent to the catholic church stating not to ask us for funding to hold these festivals

the unitting church i use to attend before i picked a church were i could call home had its own tradition

we would all sing from the same hym book then say the apostles creed together and then the pastor would call the children down the front and he would read a story from the bible to the kids and when he was finished we would pray over the kids and then they would head out to their sunday school class

while this was going on we would pause for 10 min were we would greet each other and say hello to the visitors

before the pastor begins to preach a person from the congregation would be asked to bring in the word for the day then we would sing a hym and then the pastor would get on the stage and bring in the word and preach

a person was picked every sunday to bring in the word your kids had to be silent and the parents were told to keep their kids under control

when the preaching was finished we would say the prayer jesus taught his disciples our father in heaven and when finished we would all stand while the pastor walks to the main part of the church were the entrance is and he would shake our hands and bless us

their was no alter call or was their a chance were you had him pray over you


the church i am in does things a little diffrent we have our worship service and when the worship service is over the worship leader leavs a spare microphone at the front and he asks has any one got a prayer need he also asks has any one got a testimony to share and people are given a chance to share their prayer needs or share what god has done threw the week we also offer prayer for anyone in need and an altar call is called every sunday

every sunday we have communion and the two pastors take turns preaching


i love the style of worship this church offers and i love the preaching hear i can be free hear i can worship god freely with out having to follow certain rules and guide lines if i need pray all i have to do is ask and our pastors dont walk to the main entrance to were they shake our hands our pastors can be them selves they know they have our full support

we dont place heavy burdens on them


and its the same in the philippines though our services are a little bit longer we have 2hr services not one hour services we wil have a bible study before the main service starts on sunday our members arive to church at 7.30.am and we start our bible study at 8. am our sunday service starts at 9.30am we dont tell our members to keep their kids silent we dont even tell our mothers who have had new borns they cant breast feed their kids while the service is held or do we give the mother the evil eye when the baby starts to cry


i noticed this though in the traditonal churches i found my self in if a child whines or crys or distracts the pastor that parent will get the evil eye from everyone this puzzled me to why people would do this its as if the kids had to be silent


as i stated my mums side roman catholic and my old mans side orthadox in the village i grew up in yugoslavia i would go to the catholic church with my grand parents and they had there traditions and you had to obey and do what everyone was doing you were like a robbot


hears my question did jesus pass on any traditions to his disciples ? and did jesus expect his disciples to follow these traditions ?



God bless from damo

Traditional Churches?? Does Christ Words include these as well?? Just wondering.

Matt.7
[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
[3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
[4] Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
[5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. If we find that we are 'in' this shape, we are NOT 'IN CHRIST! NEVER does the Word of God condone [OPEN FLAGRANT SIN]. A mote is not such. Read on!
[6] Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. Surely, one knows who the 'swine' of Rev. 17:5 are by now? The Holy Spirits tells us that they are 'THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH ones, mother & harlot daughters.
(7-12 is skipped, you can go back & read it)
[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:Again: These ones profess to be either God servers or Christians. Christ made it easy to understand who are Christians while plainly saying, 'IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS'. So the bottom line is that those who do not do so, do not Love Christ or even KNOW Him! 1 John 2:4. And surely that is simple to understand
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
In other Word's, this Christ is not wanted, just a pacifying glimpse in name only is really all that is testified in their life. Only believe is their cry! [15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.Show me one organized church today that is not filled with documented trite in both 'false' doctrine & open sinners running rampant? Every since their start they have never 'reformed' any of their false doctrines, & Rev. 17:5 finds them knowingly still with the same known stuff! [16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[/color] It doesn't take any extra brain power to see that true faith WORKS OBEDIENCE! And the 'will of the Godhead' is laid out in the Eternal Covenant that They alone penned! TWICE! In Stone, and then in the Born Again Heart!
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? All done by many! Yet, eternal Life escapes them. WHY??
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Just wondering, is this todays 'church' tradition ones?? Surely these ones are Commandment breakers (James 2:8-12) while professing to be Christians. 'ye that [WORK] iniquity'. 'Whosoever committeth sin trangresseth also [the Law: for SIN IS THE TRANGRESSION OF THE LAW].' 1 John 3:4, yet, these ones even 'thumb their nose at the Godheads Law. Again: James 2:8-12 & Eze.*8:16-17. And 'i' wonder how Mark 7:7 fits in with the 'worship of the Godhead by keeping the traditions of men'?? (you go read it for exact quote?) Then there is another of Jer. 17:5 'Arm of Flesh'??? (with hardly any two Ph. D. ones even agreeing with one another!)
[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[25] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[26] And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[27] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. [28] And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

[29] For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. But, who cares, huh?? Just an LOVING OBEDIENT FEW NARROW PATH FOLLOWERS!
[color="#800000"]--Elijah

So you are saying I shouldn't judge the way a church worships, etc, as long as they are within God's will?

I think I understand what you are saying. I just think that sometimes churches end up getting so caught up in ritual that they end up missing what God wants for them (and, as the verses you quoted pointed out, I do the same thing in my personal life).

Where two or more of us are gathered in His name, there Jesus is, in our midst. To me, that means that if two Christians in love with God attend a service at a Mosque or Temple together, to worship God and pray for the Muslims there, then Jesus will be there with them. He said He would.

Isn't that great news? Church can be anywhere! In a building, a stadium, by a river out in the woods somewhere, it doesn't matter.

As long as Jesus is the focus, I personally see no problem with traditional services. They bring many people comfort and security. And there are those that need the comfort of tradition to keep their focus on God because that is what they know. I'm not going to discount that, nor speak against it.

I grew up in a very traditional Protestand and Catholic environment. Then when I was born again, I had me a good time in a Pentecostal church where we made lots of joyful noises. To be honest, for a while I used to turn my nose at anything that wasn't Pentecostal.

Until God thumped me on the nose, moved me across the country, dropped me in the middle of a Baptist church, and had me publicly repent during a Bible study. My flesh was so embarrassed, but they were so thankful, because we all have our own secret little prejudices, and we ended up having a very refreshing discussion and a good time.

That event made me realize that God has a problem when we think "our" style of worship is better than another's. Like Michal did when she despised David for dancing before the Lord very undignified (to her sense of style). Only God sees the heart, so only He can judge. There are people attending all sorts of churches whose lives are lukewarm, if not cold. There are also plenty of people attending all sorts of churches whose lives burn bright hot for Jesus.

I've met many people of all sorts of denominations and non-denominations and organizations that have a deep, abiding love for God. And if I don't feel comfortable with their style of worship, then I don't have to attend, do I? It's not about me, anyway. God loves variety, I think. All you have to do is take a look at the animal kingdom, and you realize that. And we should view that variety as something positive, not as a stumbling block. God has His people planted everywhere, for His own reasons. Just because a person attends a certain church, doesn't mean they necessarily subscribe to everything that happens, or agree with it, but they are there for reasons between themselves and the Lord.

I'm personally most comfortable in small home-based groups where I don't feel like I'm falling through the cracks and where everybody knows everybody else. To me, there's nothing better, and so I'm a big fan of the home-based churches mentioed in the New Testament, but I know there are others who prefer the larger meetings. Those overwhelm me, so I attend them sparingly and pretty much only when God tells me to go.

But every so often I think fondly back to my Protestant/Catholic days. Not necessarily because I miss the churches and the traditions, but because I miss the people.

I don't think that God has a problem with tradition, as long as our faith is in Him, and not in our traditions. Because if we lean on the arm of the flesh, then that is sin. It's all a matter of where our faith is.

As long as we obey the command of not forsaking the assembling with other believers and get together to worship Jesus and build one another up, I think that is the key. And that can be with 3 people or 10,000, in a cathedral or in a straw hut somewhere, and everywhere in between. The rest is just location.

Actually, tithing is an Old Testament command so Christians are not required to give a tenth, but are free to give as much as they desire or what they can afford.

Hi, Elijah here. Your post has some very good points in it. And the two or three verse is truth as 'i' see it. Yet, where they go for worship is the thought, is it not?? And also we need Matt. 4:4 & 2 Tim. 3:16-17's total truth to understand any doctrine. Worship is surely a major doctrine.

Here is a thought that I find in Josuha 7
[11] Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff.
[12] Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they were accursed: neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you.


OK: Here we see the Word of God telling [me] that God will not be among any church, fold, group, person, persons who are known to be accursed & who will not repent, that is in their membership. Also I see that the whole of the group are held accountable for any sin.
Let me ask, (remember that 36 men died because of this sin) lets just say that [All] Israel were in their beautiful Sanctuary (church Psalms 77:13) for worship, God says in the above verses that He would not be there! Do the ones of today believe God's Words here??? And can one have worship without the Master being in our presence?? I do not think so.

So? 'i' do believe Him. Which brings to mind that any or all churchs are having another stand in their pulpits when any known sin or false doctrine is taught. They are all partakers if this is known. Rev. 18:4 + Rev. 17:5 (Rev. 3:9 comes to mind)

And YES! we see in the above verse that when one knows no better & are in sincere worship, regardless if it is 1 or 2, or even if one had passed away believing falsely, Christ still calls them HIS people as an individual. (not as a church) And when we know (Rom. 8:14) that we are a partaker of openly know false doctrine & documented sin, we MUST LEAVE or be a lost Partaker.

And the traditional church??
Which class does one see the Rev. 17:5 ones in???

You have some valid points Elijah, and I understand your concerns.

First off, I do not believe in church membership. I think that is a work of the flesh and that our covenant is with God and one another, with the complete Body of Christ, not just part of it.

On the other hand, people that don't feel bound to a particular church often end up bouncing around wherever they feel like, and end up learning nothing because they are accountable to no one, nor do they wish to be.

I think that God wants us somewhere in the middle. We need to be accountable. To God, and to one another. But we also need to be able to worship Him freely.

We ought to pursue the Presence of God in our personal lives, so that we can recognize it during a church service and know where God will meet us corporately, and where He will not. So when we meet "in His name" that means, Jesus is the focus of that meeting, and He will meet us there. He said He would.

However, I also believe that love covers a multitude of sin. God will often manifest Himself for the benefit of those present who truly love Him. Why would He deny His children that are faithful to Him, just because someone is there who is in sin? Does His manifest Presence not often soften the hearts of those who are stubborn, so they, too, can repent? Remember, He makes the sun shine on the just and unjust, and it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance.

God is everywhere, otherwise people would not be convicted of sin in such ways as dreams and whatnot, far away from churches or even Christian households. He can reach anyone, anywhere. But His intimate Presence most certainly is not everywhere. And where God removes His Presence like that, the enemy isn't too far behind to take advantage of it. We need to remember that His Presence offers protection and that there is refuge only under the shadow of His wings, and that His truth is our shield and buckler. And so it would behoove us to make sure that we live a life that is holy, so that God can be intimate with us in our "closets," so to speak, and we can carry that Presence with us wherever we go.

I'm not sure if I made myself clear here, let me know if I didn't. Sometimes I talk around in circles.

Hi, me again. I call it spinning my wheels! (on my part)
You say that God wants us 'somewhere in the middle' Where is that at??

Anyhow, 'i' see Salvation in a Holy Spirit 'documented' CONDITIONAL acceptance on our part. Acts 5:32
Case in point finds the below verses as such as I see them:

Will God hear all of my prayers? As with the Everlasting Gospel & Everlasting Covenant, PRAYER from me, to God is likewise conditional! Notice Matthew 4:6 for a quoted promise from satan to Christ! And the condition to be met? You find it in Deut. 6:16. (satans quote came from Psalm 91:11 and all/most Word for Word... and to the Word Himself, huh!)

And these inspired of the Holy Ghost verses??
"Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither His ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid His face from you, that He will not hear." Isaiah 59:1-2

One might define what sin is in 1 John 3:4, to see if they are guilty of knowingly & 'presumptuously sinning? See Psalms 19:13 & also James 2:8-12? Sin is the breaking of the Everlasting Covenant of the Godhead, as John was Inspired to explain.

We might read John 9:39-41 for who has sin? Also Luke 12:47-48 for whom are the most guilty if so.
But in the previous verse 31 this ex/blind 'physical' man was seen preaching his first sermon perhaps??

Notice:
"Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, [and doeth His will], him God heareth." Christ must have all of our will! Again: we need to understand what that means! See 1 John 5:16-17.

Notice the verses! (of just a few) If one understood the earthly sanctuary service they could understand much of Paul's writings. But, see if you can catch the key Words in all of these verses? Check this one:

"If I [regard] iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me." Psalms 66:18 (another example could be, Lord, I am going to bring my fruit sacrifice! Gen. 4:7-you know, like sun for Your 7th day requirement)

Bottom line: "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, [to him it is sin.]" James 4:17 And surely we will not be guilty of anything that we do not yet know! Rom. 8:14. Hosea 4:6 tell's me that God will not leave me a Heb. 5 babe though, huh?

When & 'if' James 1:15 & 1 John 5:16-17 become FULLY MATURED one way or the other, it bringeth forth eternal Life or death. Obadiah 1:16.

But how many of these professed ones are anywhere in the road at either side?? see Matt. 7:13-27 & Revelation 17:5.

--Elijah

I didn't mean it in that way. Some churches actually tell people that if you want to be a member, you must give a certain amount of money. We are told by God to tithe, but that is between the individual and God, not so much the church (as an institution, not the people) and individual. Sorry for not being clear.

Calling myself out here. Our pastor preached a sermon called "Do you want to be great" yesterday, and this passage was part of it. Mark 9:39-40: "Don't stop him," said Jesus, "because there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name who can soon after speak evil of Me. For whoever is not against us is for us."

I wonder if this passage in Mark could also refer to people worshiping God. If they are doing it in His name, it is still worship and God still loves it.

Thank you for your posts and ideas on this topic.

Hi, Elijah here: First off, I am replying to the material of these posts. It has nothing to do with trying to read ones mind or motive.

Christ says..

[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. (Matt. 23) And in verse 2 ibid He tells us the SAME THING.

With todays theology, one would be forced to voide out even the weightier matters of the law also! And LAW & JUDGEMENT!! But few want anything to do with Law or Judgement today either.

If anyone today believed Christ, this is not hard to understand. Ask your kids to tell you what the two verses are saying??

And surely Christ tells us that HE DOES NOT CHANGE! Heb. 13:8.. and see verse 9!!

OK: Mal. 3:6-8 are the verses that we hear quoted much! And there is nothing wrong with this Truth seen with these Inspired Words'!! BUT.. it say's ROBBING GOD?? How could any Born Again Christian support in any way, in membership, in tithe paying, (plus offerings it says) or even in fellowship with any church found in Rev. 17:5's 'THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH' without robbing God??? That is the question!

---Elijah

You say that God wants us 'somewhere in the middle' Where is that at??


Not covenanted with just part of the Body, but with the complete Body of Christ, not only on earth, but in heaven as well. We enter into covenant with God upon salvation, and with His Body, and why would we want to add to that? So to me, church membership is a work of the flesh, not the spirit. God is not a respecter of persons, and all members of His body are equally important to Him. And if one member suffers, we all suffer with it (whether we "feel" or realize it or not).


1 Cor
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[c] one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.

25that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.


Also, not removed from the Body. We are not to forsake the assembly. We are not to isolate ourselves and become a law unto ourselves, but rather fellowship with other believers so that we can be accountable to one another and support each other. Again, this doesn't have to be in a specific "church" building. We are to meet with other believers so that we can share our gifts with one another and edify one another, to make sure that the enemy cannot single anyone out and breech the walls. Again, if one member suffers, we all do. If the enemy gets a breech somewhere, it will affect the rest of us, and so God calls us to love and protect and meet with one another regularly, especially as we get closer to the Day of the Lord.

Hebrews 10:25
not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching

1 Cor 14
26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

I think that also spills over into any assembly of believers, i.e. on these boards as well. Sometimes it's hard to make that connection between words on a monitor, and the fact that there is a brother or sister in Christ who wrote those words, and so our conduct towards any post should always be with the goal of edification in mind.

If that's the case I would want to know why and if they insist that it has to be that way, then I would pray and ask God to open their eyes so that they can see their error.

PS:
I see NO 'DISAGREEMENT' in these verses being acceptable. It could be no more plain to me. 'And not to leave the other undone' I either accept what Christ said or [I am in OPEN SIN].

---Elijah



PS:
I see NO 'DISAGREEMENT' in these verses being acceptable. It could be no more plain to me. 'And not to leave the other undone' I either accept what Christ said or [I am in OPEN SIN].

---Elijah