No this is not a thread about the mark of the beast. To my understanding if you are not born again you already have that mark. It is in your hand and forehead..your thoughts and deeds...anitichirst in every way, for flesh cannot inherit the kingdom....that alone will bring swelling words of debate.

But this is about sin.

Is in more than just "missing the mark?"

Since sin can be and is forgiven by God. Although it holds death as a wage, it is not a wage that must be paid if so be that one has given the confession of it to God. He holds no man accountable for whosoever has been remitted is free.

What then is the largesse of sin to a believer? For we do sin. What then is the reason for Jesus saying to some miracle workers..."Depart from me ye accursed, for I never knew you?"

But through the Spirit we can rise above sin. We can put on Christ and live as He lived. There is a freedom presently available from sin....and not just a forgiveness from the guilt and effects of sin. We are begotten again that we might walk in a new realm, a spiritual realm. We can walk by a new law as a new creation in Christ. There is no sin there.

<><

John

What's the difference between sin and sinning? Lol

If we break the law of righteousness...ie we condemn others, we judge others, we become proud, we frustrate grace...etc... then God will reject us. As Christians we can take sin to a whole new level. That is why we must walk according to righteousness even as we press upwards towards holiness.

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John

"ning?"

Where does it go? Does it come back when we don't "walk" by the Spirit? Or, did it never leave, lol. It's just.. bypassed, lol. ?

LOL. Funny! Lol.

Sin
Gen 4:7 If you do well, is there not exaltation? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is toward you; but you should rule over it.

Sinning
1Sa 14:33 And they told Saul, saying, Behold, the people are sinning against Jehovah, to eat with the blood. And he said, You have acted treacherously. Now roll me a great stone today.

Sin is a thing, sin-ning is an action

the sin nature is the default, fall back system we are born with. So then when we are not in the Spirit, we are stuck at the maturity level we were previously at. Some people backslide quickly without the active Spirit in their walk, while others hold some ground because of a righteous maturity. It can be difficult to discern where a person is...as we don't know what they started with. An immature person, however, is soon discerned.

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John

The spiritual walk in Christ is by grace and is an elevated walk that we can learn to remain in. No matter how close we walk with God we still need to learn wisdom.

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John

I would agree I would say if we're not walking by the Spirit, we're walking by another spirit (sin) (sometimes, not all)




Hmm, very good points! Very well put.

Where am I? (seeing that you discern)

Jeff, I discern that you are a genuine brother in Christ.

Well Danka. Genuine brother, on the special needs bus, lol.

Is sin a "thing" or an abstract concept which results in offending God or men?


What brand of toothpaste do you use? The smiles are wide open and if you don't be careful your face will soon dissappear entirely...

Sin is that thing that makes you want to kill or beat someone when they get in your face.



Crest. Ha, lol.



Making up for the hate I used to have, and, the years of no smiling.

"Hate." Hostile attitude towards earthlings. "Love." Lets overcome vehement earthlings.

Eat them with smiles like pacman...

Quite astute of you! That pretty much sums it up!

nothing wrong with a silent --- tute now and then...

Missing the mark....

Sin does a dissappearing act when it is confessed. Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. God can erase anything...


I hear a reverberating tisk tisk in the crowd.

Exactly what happens.

how bout

.........and "repented" of?


In His Love,
Suzanne

I would say that is a requisite. However God does talk about seventy times seven.


That is a form of lost wages I will not mourn...

So, as long as I confess, I'm good to go..........again?


In His Love,
Suzanne

That is leading....of course not... But then explain seventy times seven. If God tells a man he must forgive seventy times seven every trespass of a brother, it would be a reasonable assertion that God forgives again and again. Some sin is not as easily forgotten by men as it is by God. Sin is addictive. Sin feels good. Flesh loves it. There is a war of flesh and spirit. New man old man. Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

No, you are equating the act of forgiveness WITH the acts of sin. These are 2 different issues. And in regard to God, I don't believe Pharoah was given 70 plagues. We do not know at what point God judges a man's heart. He does, because He knows how far the intent will be carried. Some men's intent, NEVER changes.


In His Love,
Suzanne

You can't have forgiveness without sin. Elsewise why forgiveness? The plagues were managed events to induce Pharoah to let His people go... they actually induced him to sin...and God knew what he would do...



I think sin can be a question mark...if I spit on the sidewalk in Europe it may not be a sin and here it probably would. There are always things that some men call sin and others do not. God calls things that offend His righteousness sin. I think that includes our fleshly existence. For no flesh can see Him and live....There is a great drop off into the deep about here...

Y'all are sinners...

Man doesnt' define sin, Larry, God does. It's also not left up to us to decide what we think sin is. God clearly tells us within His Word. It's not a mystery.


In His Love,
Suzanne

I knew you would say that...

Man does not define sin. But he does play a part in the conceptualization of sin. If a thing offends men it goes against the ordinances of men and that means it is against the will of God and that means it is sin. So if I spit on the sidewalk where a man says it is illegal, I have sinned against man and God.

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using [your] liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

When God lead the children of Israel out of Egypt, He still prepared a time for repentance known as the feast of atonement.

Jesus led us out of Egypt, out of bondage of the sin of flesh. But there remains a repentance for christians who are saved and make mistakes afterwards.

Just look at the letters to the churches, they were already converted but asked to repent for their mistakes.

Atonement gives repentance to those who are free in Christ but still make mistakes.

What is sin?

http://www.blubrry.com/player/?p=3943&e=210946

What is sin?

SIN...Stupid Indulgences Named

Spiritual forces. Or, spirits, to be more exact, lol

Sin is anything that goes against God's will or His word.

Joshua 7:11 HCSB - Israel has sinned. They have violated My covenant that I appointed for them.

Romans 7:7 HCSB - What should we say then? Is the law sin? Absolutely not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin if it were not for the law. For example, I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, You shall not covet.



That statement from Jesus was addressed to those who do not truly know God, and have not accepted His reign in their life. For example, those who believe that being a church member will get them into Heaven, or those who think that because their parents are saved, it is automatically passed down to them. Becoming a Christian is not repeating a prayer, it is surrendering your life. In the passage you quote, Jesus shows the difference between the two, and the deadly consequences of a faith that is not genuine.

I always find it so interesting that people VERY SELDOM finish that particular quote.....especially when it partains to this topic so precisely.


Here is the WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD:


Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'


Lawlessness IS sin.


Do you think He was jokin?


In His Love,
Suzanne

I don't think Jesus was joking there. It is the difference between Heaven and Hell, and He is not going to leave us in doubt.

That particular passage could be interpreted weird. But the Bible says that we, as Christians, are forgiven of our sins and made righteous through Jesus. Therefore, although we still sin, we are not counted as sinful when we confess our sin and ask forgiveness.

I agree, however, I believe the term "repent" would be a better counsel....to confess is not repentance.




In His Love,
Suzanne

What is lawlessness?

Already answered that, but for details, I would suggest reading God's Word. That's where it begins, (see my signature line).

You could also try:

Galatians 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.


In His Love,
Suzanne

Lawlessness is everything that Christ did not do and doing anything that He did not teach. For instance "If you haven't stopped laboring for food that perishes you are practicing lawlessness. If you haven't left all to follow Christ You are practicing lawlessness. If you are not spending every breath on trying to imitate Christ you are practicing lawlessness.

John 6:27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him."

Luke 14: 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

Romans 8:9 Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Yeah, that is a better term for it.

Sorry for the off-topic question, but: LarryD, are you coming up with these questions to just make us think? Interesting idea.

Christ has servants, frieinds and sons...the degree of entering is accordingly...a servant isn't as close as a son nor does a servant get told as much as a son...the first glance of this post speaks of correctness but a second looks says....("If you haven't left all to follow Christ You are practicing lawlessness. If you are not spending every breath on trying to imitate Christ you are practicing lawlessness." ) that there are different degrees of our walk. Is nearly the entire world lost in lawlessness because they have to live out lives in servitude to the life they live in support of family and freinds? What dimension is therefore attached to "leaving all?" Perhaps our leaving all is caught up in being instruments where we are. There is no way I can accept the condemnation that lies just below the surface of this suggestion...as if one is not doing enough...my construct is that I have prayed the lord lead me and He at a time told me, "Your life is not out of control...it is just out of "your control" because you have given it to me and asked me to lead you." That leaves a lot of room to believe I am walking in a path I am ordained to even if I am not outwardly appearing to have forsaken "all." I am amazed at how folks like to dog ear the leagalistic pages. (For ready reference)

If the Lord keeps my soul from (spiritual) adultery I will be sinless...

I'm not just talking about the kind of adultery one would engage in with a married man or woman, but in being unfaithful

The story of Ananias and Sapphira comes to mind in Acts

Hmmmm.....

Yes spiritual adultery is going after things apart from the Lord...which is idol worship..and that is a subtle thing..but easily recognized. I am afraid that we have many idols in our lives. Our hopes, dreams and aspirations easily become of primary foucus. But I have a paraclete. (advocate, intercessor) At least with me I do pray about every thing and circumstance of life, even those things for which men looking from afar would say, "Tsk tsk tsk."

I do not readily identify with the picture in my sig line but at least it says something about the entirety of my walk. For there is that message of welfare involved. "Even the sparrows." The sweat band, indicative of toil that may perhaps be generated from vain effort. The long hair that says I do not conform to another man's standard. That I am not created in another man's image of God. The grin that somehow sends a penetrating message that others may be asking for a show of words if they intrude the space, the off handed peace sign that is ostensibly veiled or disguised or commanded by informality which is ever present in the genre of the hippy set. "Give peace a chance, but not at my expense and do not expect me to go to war for your version of peace." Even the blurrred background says something to me...for my background is hazy also given the fact the Lord has forgiven me of all. I grew up in a time when hippys were predominate yet I was subborned to the rigors of the military hierarchy and command and had little recourse but to watch from afar off and go "Tsk tsk tsk."

Dear Adullam,

Just to confirm your above post:

2 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.



It's all there! If we truly want It!


In His Love,
Suzanne

Do we rise above sin? Or is sin an inherent part of the flesh? I think it is. God says that no flesh can see Him and live. I have to believe that is true of the born again believer's flesh also. That ought to say that God has said the flesh prospers nothing. And that ought to make one know that what we are calling sin is of the flesh and cannot please God. We are indelible inwardly and doubtable outwardly. Condemned in the flesh and justified in the Spirit.
We carry our flesh as baggage through life. There is no escape in this life from the compartmentization of our natural and our spirit. It is like a suitcase with a broken zipper...some of our stuff falls out on the platform of life. Paul the "A" struggled also as he personalized his dialogue on the subject. He was born again from above and truly served God the way folks here preach He must be served, and yet he had the law of sin in his members...imagine that...and we think we have transcended that? I think you folks are not seeing spiritual life in the practical outworking of it..rather you are seeing it in a showcase of supposed ready made perfection. It is the ideal to aim for. It is scripture. But Paul wrote of these and he has stated his own plight in Romans 7...the verse I isolate here is a mere parcel of all of that.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Dear Larry,

Here's something to consider:

1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.


1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

13 I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father. 14 I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one. 15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.


(There is a vast difference between "practicing lawlessness", and unwillful sin.) To practice something is to get better at it, which is why Matthew 7:23 is such a powerful verse.

23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

In His Love,
Suzanne

And yet, you missed the transformation that Paul explained in the following Chapter.

Romans 8

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,* who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,



In His Love,
Suzanne

If you are taking the slant of the righteous requirement of the law that it is fulfilled in us...then well and good...for that is what Jesus Christ has done...fulfilled the righteous requirement of the law. So we don't have to. We get it in the package if you please....I do not have to obey the writ (letter) of the law...but the spirit of the law which is encapsulated in the love walk. Sin may be defined as anything that is not out of love and/or faith. Including faith which worketh by love. (Gal 5:6) For whatever is not of faith is sin. (Rom 14:23)