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endtime
The coming of the Lord's two witnesses mark the beginning of the three and a half year great tribulation just before the return of the Lord our savior. The verse in Revelation 11 is explained by Ezekiel 9. The firm foundation of knowing that Gods eyes are only on those who claim to be His through Christ, is needed in understanding this. God is not paying any attention to those who claim Him without Christ. The two witness com preaching that the Lord is calling for three and a half years of sackcloth and ashes from those who would follow Him.

Revelation 11
1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood,* saying, "Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

Zechariah 13
8 And it shall come to pass in all the land," Says the Lord, "That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it:
9 I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; And each one will say, 'The Lord is my God.' "

Ezekiel 9
1 Then He called out in my hearing with a loud voice, saying, "Let those who have charge over the city draw near, each with a deadly weapon in his hand."
2 And suddenly six men came from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with his battle-ax in his hand. One man among them was clothed with linen and had a writer's inkhorn at his side. They went in and stood beside the bronze altar.
3 Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherub, where it had been, to the threshold of the temple. And He called to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer's inkhorn at his side;
4 and the Lord said to him, "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it."
5 To the others He said in my hearing, "Go after him through the city and kill; do not let your eye spare, nor have any pity.
6 Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were before the temple.
7 Then He said to them, "Defile the temple, and fill the courts with the slain. Go out!" And they went out and killed in the city. 8 So it was, that while they were killing them, I was left alone; and I fell on my face and cried out, and said, "Ah, Lord God! Will You destroy all the remnant of Israel in pouring out Your fury on Jerusalem?"
9 Then He said to me, "The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceedingly great, and the land is full of bloodshed, and the city full of perversity; for they say, 'The Lord has forsaken the land, and the Lord does not see!'
10 And as for Me also, My eye will neither spare, nor will I have pity, but I will recompense their deeds on their own head."
11 Just then, the man clothed with linen, who had the inkhorn at his side, reported back and said, "I have done as You commanded me."
guysmith
Hello endtime,

I agree with your statement. From the scriptures you post, are you stating that Jerusalem is the place to be during the GT?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
http://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000
endtime
QUOTE (guysmith @ Aug 24 2008, 11:46 AM) *
Hello endtime,

I agree with your statement. From the scriptures you post, are you stating that Jerusalem is the place to be during the GT?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
http://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000


It won't matter where on earth you are when it begins The Lord will assemble and gather everyone before His mountain Just before the return of the Lord.
endtime
The shepherds who taught the sheep lies for profit will fall and perish and not be found.

Jeremiah 25


30 "Therefore prophesy against them all these words, and say to them: 'The Lord will roar from on high, And utter His voice from His holy habitation; He will roar mightily against His fold. He will give a shout, as those who tread the grapes, Against all the inhabitants of the earth.
31 A noise will come to the ends of the earth-- For the Lord has a controversy with the nations; He will plead His case with all flesh. He will give those who are wicked to the sword,' says the Lord."
32 Thus says the Lord of hosts: "Behold, disaster shall go forth From nation to nation, And a great whirlwind shall be raised up From the farthest parts of the earth.
33 And at that day the slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground.
34 "Wail, shepherds, and cry! Roll about in the ashes, You leaders of the flock! For the days of your slaughter and your dispersions are fulfilled; You shall fall like a precious vessel.
35 And the shepherds will have no way to flee, Nor the leaders of the flock to escape.
36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, And a wailing of the leaders to the flock will be heard. For the Lord has plundered their pasture,
37 And the peaceful dwellings are cut down Because of the fierce anger of the Lord.

endtime
Destruction decreed on the whole earth including the priest and the people, the lender and the borrower.

Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste, Distorts its surface And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
2 And it shall be: As with the people, so with the priest; As with the servant, so with his master; As with the maid, so with her mistress; As with the buyer, so with the seller; As with the lender, so with the borrower; As with the creditor, so with the debtor.
3 The land shall be entirely emptied and utterly plundered, For the Lord has spoken this word.
4 The earth mourns and fades away, The world languishes and fades away; The haughty people of the earth languish.
5 The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants, Because they have transgressed the laws, Changed the ordinance, Broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore the curse has devoured the earth, And those who dwell in it are desolate. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, And few men are left.
7 The new wine fails, the vine languishes, All the merry-hearted sigh.
8 The mirth of the tambourine ceases, The noise of the jubilant ends, The joy of the harp ceases.
9 They shall not drink wine with a song; Strong drink is bitter to those who drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down; Every house is shut up, so that none may go in.
11 There is a cry for wine in the streets, All joy is darkened, The mirth of the land is gone.
12 In the city desolation is left, And the gate is stricken with destruction.

endtime
1 Thessalonians 5
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.

Isaiah 66
7 "Before she was in labor, she gave birth; Before her pain came, She delivered a male child.
8 Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion was in labor, She gave birth to her children.
9 Shall I bring to the time of birth, and not cause delivery?" says the Lord. "Shall I who cause delivery shut up the womb?" says your God.


Micah 4
9 Now why do you cry aloud? Is there no king in your midst? Has your counselor perished? For pangs have seized you like a woman in labor.
10 Be in pain, and labor to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, Like a woman in birth pangs. For now you shall go forth from the city, You shall dwell in the field, And to Babylon you shall go. There you shall be delivered; There the Lord will redeem you From the hand of your enemies.






.
Stephen
This is an exact picture of the conditions of the Lord's coming judgment of the earth .... the tribulation period which will bring confusion, vexation, and destruction upon the world for 7 years

Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste, Distorts its surface And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
2 And it shall be: As with the people, so with the priest; As with the servant, so with his master; As with the maid, so with her mistress; As with the buyer, so with the seller; As with the lender, so with the borrower; As with the creditor, so with the debtor.
3 The land shall be entirely emptied and utterly plundered, For the Lord has spoken this word.
4 The earth mourns and fades away, The world languishes and fades away; The haughty people of the earth languish.
5 The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants, Because they have transgressed the laws, Changed the ordinance, Broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore the curse has devoured the earth, And those who dwell in it are desolate. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, And few men are left.
7 The new wine fails, the vine languishes, All the merry-hearted sigh.
8 The mirth of the tambourine ceases, The noise of the jubilant ends, The joy of the harp ceases.
9 They shall not drink wine with a song; Strong drink is bitter to those who drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down; Every house is shut up, so that none may go in.
11 There is a cry for wine in the streets, All joy is darkened, The mirth of the land is gone.
12 In the city desolation is left, And the gate is stricken with destruction.

This is the beginning .... no warning

1 Thessalonians 5
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.

This is how it will start

Revelation
8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

6:13 And the stars [fallen angelics] of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

This is how it will end

Revelation
19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

This is what will happen just after

Revelation
20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Next

Matthew
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect [national Israel] from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
endtime
QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 8 2008, 02:47 PM) *
This is an exact picture of the conditions of the Lord's coming judgment of the earth .... the tribulation period which will bring confusion, vexation, and destruction upon the world for 7 years


Not true Stephen
None of those scriptures say anything about "seven years".

The verse in Daniel that says He will confirm a covenant with many for one week is the covenant of Christ.
Christ came and showed what that covenant is and laid the cornerstone and made the sacrifice in half that week, then was cut off.

Now Christ's two prophets come at the End and finish the week with the ushering in of Christ's second coming and His kingdom on earth.
All of the verses in the bible that name the time say "fourty two months" a "time, times, and a half time", "one thousand two hundred and sixty days", three and a half years.

No where is there a verse that says "seven years".


Daniel 12
7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

Revelation 11
3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."

Revelation 12
6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days

Revelation 11
2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.







.
Stephen
I believe that you interpret Daniel 9 incorrectly

It is the Lord who will "confirm" the covenant of the 70 weeks of years decreed for the remnant of His nation, Israel .... this is the covenant in the text of the chapter

He will do this by executing the 70th week [a time frame of seven 360 day prophetic years] which is still future from today

He has six objectives listed that He will complete for the believing remnant part of the nation

This action did not take place for national Israel in the first century

The nation is in unbelief today for the most part, but this is going to change during His coming judgment of the tribulation period ..... which will last for the same time lapse of seven years

The time of "Jacob's" trouble and the Lord's judgment of an entire intransigent unbelieving world are the same

The conditions of the tribulation period will cause a remnant part of national Israel to turn and believe in their Messiah and King

The "other prince" noted in the passage is Abaddon-Apollyon [the little horn/beast ... "antichrist"] who will come with his followers; they will invade Israel at the middle of the period and the Lord will destroy them at the end of it
endtime
Daniel 9
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

This is a reference back to the messiah because no one else has a covenant.

In the middle of the week bringing a end to sacrifice and offering refers to the Lord's two end time prophets removing the Lord's sacrifice to man to destroy the world and usher in the kingdom of God.

All of this because "It is time".

It is the "endtime" when the wrath of God will be administered to distroy the devils rule of the world and put an end to sin.

The Lord puts and end to His sacrifice by taking the water away from earth for three and a half years.

Then those who claim faith in the Lord will be revealed.

Who has understood and who is real?

Who has not understood and is the man of sin, the sons of perdition?

This is how the Lord brings an end to His sacrifice and offering.

Revelation 11
3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."
5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.
6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.
10 -- because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.


The Lord's two Prophets know what they are suppose to do and Why the Lord has sent them out.

No one can stop them or annul their ministry.

Since this is a prophecy that is still to come and is in the near future.

You will be able to see and know how you should have reacted to the truth when it was told to you.









.
Stephen
I disagree

The passage of Daniel 9:26-27 is one of repetition

There are two princes involved .... the Lord ..... and the other prince

Daniel
9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off [the Lord], but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come [the other prince and his followers] shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

9:27 And he [the Lord] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he [the other prince] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease [Jews worshiping at the Kotel .... the great synagogue], and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate [the other prince and his followers].
endtime
QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 9 2008, 08:16 PM) *
I disagree

The passage of Daniel 9:26-27 is one of repetition

There are two princes involved .... the Lord ..... and the other prince

Daniel
9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off [the Lord], but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come [the other prince and his followers] shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

9:27 And he [the Lord] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he [the other prince] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease [Jews worshiping at the Kotel .... the great synagogue], and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate [the other prince and his followers].


The whole scripture is talking about the "One" who confirms the covenant. The only "One" who has a covenant. The "One" who takes away His daily sacrifice to man which is apparent in revelation 11. The "One" who makes them desolate because of what they do to survive, "Eating people". The abomination of desolation. They overspread their abomination, He makes them desolate. The whole verse is talking about The Lord of Hosts.

The nation of antichrist's in the middle east doesn't have anything to do with God or Christ anymore. They are part of the nations that will be destroyed.


Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste, Distorts its surface And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
3 The land shall be entirely emptied and utterly plundered, For the Lord has spoken this word.
4 The earth mourns and fades away, The world languishes and fades away; The haughty people of the earth languish.
5 The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants, Because they have transgressed the laws, Changed the ordinance, Broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore the curse has devoured the earth, And those who dwell in it are desolate. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, And few men are left.
7 The new wine fails, the vine languishes, All the merry-hearted sigh.
8 The mirth of the tambourine ceases, The noise of the jubilant ends, The joy of the harp ceases. 9 They shall not drink wine with a song; Strong drink is bitter to those who drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down; Every house is shut up, so that none may go in. 11 There is a cry for wine in the streets, All joy is darkened, The mirth of the land is gone.
12 In the city desolation is left, And the gate is stricken with destruction.

Isaiah 34
1 Come near, you nations, to hear; And heed, you people! Let the earth hear, and all that is in it, The world and all things that come forth from it.
2 For the indignation of the Lord is against all nations, And His fury against all their armies; He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over to the slaughter.
3 Also their slain shall be thrown out; Their stench shall rise from their corpses, And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.



No nation will escape.

Revelation 11
10 ---- these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth






.
Stephen
Sorry,

I do not buy your story

It is true that the Lord will seek to destroy all nations at the time of the end .... except national Israel

But the focus in Daniel 9 is specifically upon national Israel, Daniel's people, at the time of the end
endtime
QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 9 2008, 09:05 PM) *
Sorry,

I do not buy your story

It is true that the Lord will seek to destroy all nations at the time of the end .... except national Israel

But the focus in Daniel 9 is specifically upon national Israel, Daniel's people, at the time of the end



Daniels People are those of Faith in the Lord. Daniel is not associated with antichrists.

I pray that your fall not be to death, but that the Lord give you the time and means to repent.






Stephen
No

Daniel's people are national Israelites just like him .... no Gentiles

And Daniel's visions do present the "antichrist" who will rise at the time of the end

[Daniel 7:7-8; 7:19-25; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 9:26-27; 11:36-45; 12:7]


endtime
QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 9 2008, 11:51 PM) *
No

Daniel's people are national Israelites just like him .... no Gentiles

And Daniel's visions do present the "antichrist" who will rise at the time of the end

[Daniel 7:7-8; 7:19-25; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 9:26-27; 11:36-45; 12:7]




There is no Gentile or Jew. There is Only the body of Christ and the dead. Daniel is a member of the twenty four elders. Twenty four out of Billions upon Billions does not constitute Daniel's people being National Israel.

Acts 15
8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,
9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.


Galatians 3
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Mark 12
27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken."

1 John 2
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.









.
endtime


"Therefore you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel:

"Drink, be drunk, and vomit! Fall and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you." '

And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup from your hand to drink, then you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord of hosts:

"You shall certainly drink! For behold, I begin to bring calamity on the city which is called by My name, and should you be utterly unpunished?

You shall not be unpunished, for I will call for a sword on all the inhabitants of the earth," says the Lord of hosts.'








Jeremiah 25
Stephen
You are taking scripture out of context of the bigger picture regarding national Israel and the nation's inclusion at the time of the end

You fail to see that the church [of no national identity] is one theme in scripture and the preservation of Daniel's people, national Israel is a parallel theme .... both are true .... not one or the other

Learn from the prophet Jeremiah

These things are still in play and cannot be eliminated from scripture as you attempt to do in your thinking

The Lord even explains what He is doing with national Israel and why

Jeremiah
30:1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,

30:2 Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.

30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

30:4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.

30:5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.

30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

30:8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:

30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

30:10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.

30:11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

30:12 For thus saith the LORD, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.

30:13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.

30:14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.

30:15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.

30:16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.

30:17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.

30:18 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.

30:19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.

30:20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.

30:21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD.

30:22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

30:23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.

30:24 The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.





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