"Any concept of grace that make us feel more comfortable sinning is not biblical grace. God's grace never encourages us to live in sin, on the contrary, it empowers us to say no to sin and yes to truth."
Randy Alcorn
"We have a strange illusion that mere time cancels sin. But mere time does nothing either to the fact or to the guilt of a sin."
CS Lewis
Jesus died on the cross for my sins and your sins, he offers us forgiveness. But still we must repent of our sin and turn away from the very sin that causes such pain to Christ. It has been said: "It is impossible for a man to be freed from the habit of sin before he hates it, just as it is impossible to receive forgiveness before confessing his trespasses." Ignatius Even when we repent of our sin, and turn towards God we might still have to pay a consequence for a sin that we have committed.
Scriptures teaches us this; "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shall forgive him."
Luke 17: 3-4
It is biblical to rebuke our brother/sister for sinning against us. It is also biblical that we forgive that person if that person repents for hurting and sinning against us. Forgiveness is given after repentence.
True repentance always loves our Lord with a real and deep love.
"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fify. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell Me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest Me no water for MY feet: but she hath washed My feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest Me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss My feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed My feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And He said unto her, thy sins are forgiven." Luke 7: 41-48
So repentence puts the Lord and the other person (that we wronged) first. The wronged individual comes before me and the Lord comes before both of us. So once again, it's more about God and less about me. The Me game begins to dispel.
"People do not drift towards Holiness. Apart from grace driven effort, people do not gravitate towards Godliness, prayer, obedience to Scriture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; we drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; we drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation, we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism, we slide toward godlessness and convince we have been liberated." D. A Carson
With the Lord we can repent of our sins and by the cross we can forgive other people that have hurt us. But.............We can never compromise with untruth and with sin. We can never sit down and be quiet just to get along. We must speak out boldly for the Lord while being able to back up our arguments using scriptures.
It is time that this post comes to a close. I am very interested in learning your views on forgiveness and repentance.
Gods Blessings,
Al
Full Version: Repent And Forgive
QUOTE (Adeline @ Aug 22 2008, 10:19 PM) 
"Any concept of grace that make us feel more comfortable sinning is not biblical grace. God's grace never encourages us to live in sin, on the contrary, it empowers us to say no to sin and yes to truth."
Randy Alcorn
"We have a strange illusion that mere time cancels sin. But mere time does nothing either to the fact or to the guilt of a sin."
CS Lewis
Jesus died on the cross for my sins and your sins, he offers us forgiveness. But still we must repent of our sin and turn away from the very sin that causes such pain to Christ. It has been said: "It is impossible for a man to be freed from the habit of sin before he hates it, just as it is impossible to receive forgiveness before confessing his trespasses." Ignatius Even when we repent of our sin, and turn towards God we might still have to pay a consequence for a sin that we have committed.
Scriptures teaches us this; "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shall forgive him."
Luke 17: 3-4
It is biblical to rebuke our brother/sister for sinning against us. It is also biblical that we forgive that person if that person repents for hurting and sinning against us. Forgiveness is given after repentence.
True repentance always loves our Lord with a real and deep love.
"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fify. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell Me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest Me no water for MY feet: but she hath washed My feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest Me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss My feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed My feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And He said unto her, thy sins are forgiven." Luke 7: 41-48
So repentence puts the Lord and the other person (that we wronged) first. The wronged individual comes before me and the Lord comes before both of us. So once again, it's more about God and less about me. The Me game begins to dispel.
"People do not drift towards Holiness. Apart from grace driven effort, people do not gravitate towards Godliness, prayer, obedience to Scriture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; we drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; we drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation, we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism, we slide toward godlessness and convince we have been liberated." D. A Carson
With the Lord we can repent of our sins and by the cross we can forgive other people that have hurt us. But.............We can never compromise with untruth and with sin. [b]We can never sit down and be quiet just to get along. We must speak out boldly for the Lord while being able to back up our arguments using scriptures.
It is time that this post comes to a close. I am very interested in learning your views on forgiveness and repentance.
Gods Blessings,
Al[/b]
Randy Alcorn
"We have a strange illusion that mere time cancels sin. But mere time does nothing either to the fact or to the guilt of a sin."
CS Lewis
Jesus died on the cross for my sins and your sins, he offers us forgiveness. But still we must repent of our sin and turn away from the very sin that causes such pain to Christ. It has been said: "It is impossible for a man to be freed from the habit of sin before he hates it, just as it is impossible to receive forgiveness before confessing his trespasses." Ignatius Even when we repent of our sin, and turn towards God we might still have to pay a consequence for a sin that we have committed.
Scriptures teaches us this; "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shall forgive him."
Luke 17: 3-4
It is biblical to rebuke our brother/sister for sinning against us. It is also biblical that we forgive that person if that person repents for hurting and sinning against us. Forgiveness is given after repentence.
True repentance always loves our Lord with a real and deep love.
"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fify. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell Me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest Me no water for MY feet: but she hath washed My feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest Me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss My feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed My feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And He said unto her, thy sins are forgiven." Luke 7: 41-48
So repentence puts the Lord and the other person (that we wronged) first. The wronged individual comes before me and the Lord comes before both of us. So once again, it's more about God and less about me. The Me game begins to dispel.
"People do not drift towards Holiness. Apart from grace driven effort, people do not gravitate towards Godliness, prayer, obedience to Scriture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; we drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; we drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation, we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism, we slide toward godlessness and convince we have been liberated." D. A Carson
With the Lord we can repent of our sins and by the cross we can forgive other people that have hurt us. But.............We can never compromise with untruth and with sin. [b]We can never sit down and be quiet just to get along. We must speak out boldly for the Lord while being able to back up our arguments using scriptures.
It is time that this post comes to a close. I am very interested in learning your views on forgiveness and repentance.
Gods Blessings,
Al[/b]
There isn't much left to say as you have said it so beautifully.I don't have trouble with forgiveness but I do seeth inside when I see someone continuously being disruptive and causing conflicts under the guise of sweetness. It becomes more and more difficult to refrain from saying something even when it doesn't concern me. But, that's a small thing on a wondeful forum. Hopefully it will take care of itself as time goes on.
Thank you for your post.
Al, I forgive you for being so mean to Justice. I know you didn't mean it. I truly in my heart forgive you for that contention and pray today is another NEW day in the Lord.
Rose,
In this area I need not your forgiveness...I have used scriptures to prove that she is a false teacher/prophet. Instead of using YOUR words against me, would you mind using our Lords words that will prove to me that I am wrong? You and Lisa are posting out of emotion and are not feeding me any scriptural food, and without scriptural food you are not feeding me anything that will sustain me.
Feed me Scriptural food and try not to go on an emotional rollar coaster.
Gods Blessings,
Al
In this area I need not your forgiveness...I have used scriptures to prove that she is a false teacher/prophet. Instead of using YOUR words against me, would you mind using our Lords words that will prove to me that I am wrong? You and Lisa are posting out of emotion and are not feeding me any scriptural food, and without scriptural food you are not feeding me anything that will sustain me.
Feed me Scriptural food and try not to go on an emotional rollar coaster.
Gods Blessings,
Al
QUOTE (whirlwind @ Aug 23 2008, 07:40 AM)
QUOTE (Adeline @ Aug 22 2008, 10:19 PM)
"Any concept of grace that make us feel more comfortable sinning is not biblical grace. God's grace never encourages us to live in sin, on the contrary, it empowers us to say no to sin and yes to truth."
Randy Alcorn
"We have a strange illusion that mere time cancels sin. But mere time does nothing either to the fact or to the guilt of a sin."
CS Lewis
Jesus died on the cross for my sins and your sins, he offers us forgiveness. But still we must repent of our sin and turn away from the very sin that causes such pain to Christ. It has been said: "It is impossible for a man to be freed from the habit of sin before he hates it, just as it is impossible to receive forgiveness before confessing his trespasses." Ignatius Even when we repent of our sin, and turn towards God we might still have to pay a consequence for a sin that we have committed.
Scriptures teaches us this; "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shall forgive him."
Luke 17: 3-4
It is biblical to rebuke our brother/sister for sinning against us. It is also biblical that we forgive that person if that person repents for hurting and sinning against us. Forgiveness is given after repentence.
True repentance always loves our Lord with a real and deep love.
"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fify. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell Me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest Me no water for MY feet: but she hath washed My feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest Me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss My feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed My feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And He said unto her, thy sins are forgiven." Luke 7: 41-48
So repentence puts the Lord and the other person (that we wronged) first. The wronged individual comes before me and the Lord comes before both of us. So once again, it's more about God and less about me. The Me game begins to dispel.
"People do not drift towards Holiness. Apart from grace driven effort, people do not gravitate towards Godliness, prayer, obedience to Scriture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; we drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; we drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation, we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism, we slide toward godlessness and convince we have been liberated." D. A Carson
With the Lord we can repent of our sins and by the cross we can forgive other people that have hurt us. But.............We can never compromise with untruth and with sin. [b]We can never sit down and be quiet just to get along. We must speak out boldly for the Lord while being able to back up our arguments using scriptures.
It is time that this post comes to a close. I am very interested in learning your views on forgiveness and repentance.
Gods Blessings,
Al[/b]
Randy Alcorn
"We have a strange illusion that mere time cancels sin. But mere time does nothing either to the fact or to the guilt of a sin."
CS Lewis
Jesus died on the cross for my sins and your sins, he offers us forgiveness. But still we must repent of our sin and turn away from the very sin that causes such pain to Christ. It has been said: "It is impossible for a man to be freed from the habit of sin before he hates it, just as it is impossible to receive forgiveness before confessing his trespasses." Ignatius Even when we repent of our sin, and turn towards God we might still have to pay a consequence for a sin that we have committed.
Scriptures teaches us this; "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shall forgive him."
Luke 17: 3-4
It is biblical to rebuke our brother/sister for sinning against us. It is also biblical that we forgive that person if that person repents for hurting and sinning against us. Forgiveness is given after repentence.
True repentance always loves our Lord with a real and deep love.
"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fify. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell Me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest Me no water for MY feet: but she hath washed My feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest Me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss My feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed My feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And He said unto her, thy sins are forgiven." Luke 7: 41-48
So repentence puts the Lord and the other person (that we wronged) first. The wronged individual comes before me and the Lord comes before both of us. So once again, it's more about God and less about me. The Me game begins to dispel.
"People do not drift towards Holiness. Apart from grace driven effort, people do not gravitate towards Godliness, prayer, obedience to Scriture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; we drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; we drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation, we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism, we slide toward godlessness and convince we have been liberated." D. A Carson
With the Lord we can repent of our sins and by the cross we can forgive other people that have hurt us. But.............We can never compromise with untruth and with sin. [b]We can never sit down and be quiet just to get along. We must speak out boldly for the Lord while being able to back up our arguments using scriptures.
It is time that this post comes to a close. I am very interested in learning your views on forgiveness and repentance.
Gods Blessings,
Al[/b]
There isn't much left to say as you have said it so beautifully.I don't have trouble with forgiveness but I do seeth inside when I see someone continuously being disruptive and causing conflicts under the guise of sweetness. It becomes more and more difficult to refrain from saying something even when it doesn't concern me. But, that's a small thing on a wondeful forum. Hopefully it will take care of itself as time goes on.
Thank you for your post.
Whirlwind,
Thank-you so much for your kind words. In order to get the proper Godly perspective I need to take this subject a little bit at a time.
We are to forgive if the sinner repents of their sins, in this case forgiveness is mandatory. What happens if a sinner refuses to repent? When man sins, and then refuses the convicting power of the Holy Spirit to repent of sin, this sin is the sin of blasphemy, an unforgivable sin.
"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven."
Luke 12: 10
"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."
Mark 3:29
Even under the mask of sweetness one can sin. God is able to see beneath the guise of sweatness in order to see the heart...the intent. In the end, God shall not be mocked. In sweetness we can sin although we might be pretending to be all sweetness and spice while under the surface we have a simmering and deep anger that must be dealt with.
"The temptation of the age is to look good without being good."
Brennan Manning
"One of the misfortunes of our time is that in getting rid of false shame, we have killed off so much real shame as well."
Louis Kronenberger
"The world has lost the power to blush over its vice; the Church has lost her power to weep over it."
Leonard Ravenhill
Gods Blessings,
Al
QUOTE (Adeline @ Aug 23 2008, 10:48 AM)
Whirlwind,
Thank-you so much for your kind words. In order to get the proper Godly perspective I need to take this subject a little bit at a time.
We are to forgive if the sinner repents of their sins, in this case forgiveness is mandatory. What happens if a sinner refuses to repent? When man sins, and then refuses the convicting power of the Holy Spirit to repent of sin, this sin is the sin of blasphemy, an unforgivable sin.
Thank-you so much for your kind words. In order to get the proper Godly perspective I need to take this subject a little bit at a time.
We are to forgive if the sinner repents of their sins, in this case forgiveness is mandatory. What happens if a sinner refuses to repent? When man sins, and then refuses the convicting power of the Holy Spirit to repent of sin, this sin is the sin of blasphemy, an unforgivable sin.
I would go a step further and say....we are to forgive others/ourselves when we TRULY repent of their/our sins and when that happens, when one truly repents they/we don't continue to commit that sin.
QUOTE
Even under the mask of sweetness one can sin. God is able to see beneath the guise of sweatness in order to see the heart...the intent. In the end, God shall not be mocked. In sweetness we can sin although we might be pretending to be all sweetness and spice while under the surface we have a simmering and deep anger that must be dealt with.
I'm glad you are able to see through that facade...not all are able.
Blessings to you too.......Whirlwind
QUOTE (Adeline @ Aug 22 2008, 08:19 PM)
"Any concept of grace that make us feel more comfortable sinning is not biblical grace. God's grace never encourages us to live in sin, on the contrary, it empowers us to say no to sin and yes to truth."
Randy Alcorn
"We have a strange illusion that mere time cancels sin. But mere time does nothing either to the fact or to the guilt of a sin."
CS Lewis
Jesus died on the cross for my sins and your sins, he offers us forgiveness. But still we must repent of our sin and turn away from the very sin that causes such pain to Christ. It has been said: "It is impossible for a man to be freed from the habit of sin before he hates it, just as it is impossible to receive forgiveness before confessing his trespasses." Ignatius Even when we repent of our sin, and turn towards God we might still have to pay a consequence for a sin that we have committed.
Scriptures teaches us this; "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shall forgive him."
Luke 17: 3-4
It is biblical to rebuke our brother/sister for sinning against us. It is also biblical that we forgive that person if that person repents for hurting and sinning against us. Forgiveness is given after repentence.
True repentance always loves our Lord with a real and deep love.
"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fify. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell Me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest Me no water for MY feet: but she hath washed My feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest Me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss My feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed My feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And He said unto her, thy sins are forgiven." Luke 7: 41-48
So repentence puts the Lord and the other person (that we wronged) first. The wronged individual comes before me and the Lord comes before both of us. So once again, it's more about God and less about me. The Me game begins to dispel.
"People do not drift towards Holiness. Apart from grace driven effort, people do not gravitate towards Godliness, prayer, obedience to Scriture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; we drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; we drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation, we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism, we slide toward godlessness and convince we have been liberated." D. A Carson
With the Lord we can repent of our sins and by the cross we can forgive other people that have hurt us. But.............We can never compromise with untruth and with sin. We can never sit down and be quiet just to get along. We must speak out boldly for the Lord while being able to back up our arguments using scriptures.
It is time that this post comes to a close. I am very interested in learning your views on forgiveness and repentance.
Gods Blessings,
Al
Randy Alcorn
"We have a strange illusion that mere time cancels sin. But mere time does nothing either to the fact or to the guilt of a sin."
CS Lewis
Jesus died on the cross for my sins and your sins, he offers us forgiveness. But still we must repent of our sin and turn away from the very sin that causes such pain to Christ. It has been said: "It is impossible for a man to be freed from the habit of sin before he hates it, just as it is impossible to receive forgiveness before confessing his trespasses." Ignatius Even when we repent of our sin, and turn towards God we might still have to pay a consequence for a sin that we have committed.
Scriptures teaches us this; "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shall forgive him."
Luke 17: 3-4
It is biblical to rebuke our brother/sister for sinning against us. It is also biblical that we forgive that person if that person repents for hurting and sinning against us. Forgiveness is given after repentence.
True repentance always loves our Lord with a real and deep love.
"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fify. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell Me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest Me no water for MY feet: but she hath washed My feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest Me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss My feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed My feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And He said unto her, thy sins are forgiven." Luke 7: 41-48
So repentence puts the Lord and the other person (that we wronged) first. The wronged individual comes before me and the Lord comes before both of us. So once again, it's more about God and less about me. The Me game begins to dispel.
"People do not drift towards Holiness. Apart from grace driven effort, people do not gravitate towards Godliness, prayer, obedience to Scriture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; we drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; we drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation, we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism, we slide toward godlessness and convince we have been liberated." D. A Carson
With the Lord we can repent of our sins and by the cross we can forgive other people that have hurt us. But.............We can never compromise with untruth and with sin. We can never sit down and be quiet just to get along. We must speak out boldly for the Lord while being able to back up our arguments using scriptures.
It is time that this post comes to a close. I am very interested in learning your views on forgiveness and repentance.
Gods Blessings,
Al
Hi Al, hope all is well,
Consider the following:
The context of Luke 17:3,4 is recognized in Matthew18. "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone" (Matt. 18:15) ... "if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more" (vs. 16).
-----------------------
On forgiveness and repentance.
Jesus Christ "is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world" (1John 2:2). When we confess our sins and repent it's in the light of the God's unfailing love. In God's mercy He does NOT impute anyone's sin to them. "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the world of reconcilliation" (2 Cor. 5:19.
Before we do anything such as repent, confess, or even believe God has already "reconciled the world to Himself" by "not counting men's sins against them." This takes all of man's boasting and merit and completely blots it out of the picture. In that sense then, God has already forgiven the world IN CHRIST.
Can God really forgive us if He has not already done so in His heart? Therefore the message to unbelieving sinners is, "be ye reconciled to God." The message is not, "Change your heart toward God so He will change His heart toward you," but rather, "God is already reconciled in His heart toward you; now, be ye reconciled to Him." For it is "the goodnness of God leadeth thee to repentance" (Rom. 2:4).
If we have this darkened notion that -- I MUST do this, or I MUST do that in order to prompt God's forgiveness, then how can genuine repentance become possible.
Let us always keep in mind that "faith ... worketh by love" (Gal. 5:6). The word "worketh" means energeo, which means to energize. Paul says, "Faith is energized by love" not an obedient driven fearful message. The message of the cross is, "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son." God did not "offer" salvation as if we HAVE to do something first, He gives it, as a free gift. May all of us respond to Calvary today.
Jake W.
QUOTE (Adeline @ Aug 22 2008, 11:19 PM)
"Any concept of grace that make us feel more comfortable sinning is not biblical grace. God's grace never encourages us to live in sin, on the contrary, it empowers us to say no to sin and yes to truth."
Randy Alcorn
"We have a strange illusion that mere time cancels sin. But mere time does nothing either to the fact or to the guilt of a sin."
CS Lewis
Jesus died on the cross for my sins and your sins, he offers us forgiveness. But still we must repent of our sin and turn away from the very sin that causes such pain to Christ. It has been said: "It is impossible for a man to be freed from the habit of sin before he hates it, just as it is impossible to receive forgiveness before confessing his trespasses." Ignatius Even when we repent of our sin, and turn towards God we might still have to pay a consequence for a sin that we have committed.
Scriptures teaches us this; "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shall forgive him."
Luke 17: 3-4
It is biblical to rebuke our brother/sister for sinning against us. It is also biblical that we forgive that person if that person repents for hurting and sinning against us. Forgiveness is given after repentence.
True repentance always loves our Lord with a real and deep love.
"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fify. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell Me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest Me no water for MY feet: but she hath washed My feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest Me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss My feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed My feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And He said unto her, thy sins are forgiven." Luke 7: 41-48
So repentence puts the Lord and the other person (that we wronged) first. The wronged individual comes before me and the Lord comes before both of us. So once again, it's more about God and less about me. The Me game begins to dispel.
"People do not drift towards Holiness. Apart from grace driven effort, people do not gravitate towards Godliness, prayer, obedience to Scriture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; we drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; we drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation, we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism, we slide toward godlessness and convince we have been liberated." D. A Carson
With the Lord we can repent of our sins and by the cross we can forgive other people that have hurt us. But.............We can never compromise with untruth and with sin. We can never sit down and be quiet just to get along. We must speak out boldly for the Lord while being able to back up our arguments using scriptures.
It is time that this post comes to a close. I am very interested in learning your views on forgiveness and repentance.
Gods Blessings,
Al
Randy Alcorn
"We have a strange illusion that mere time cancels sin. But mere time does nothing either to the fact or to the guilt of a sin."
CS Lewis
Jesus died on the cross for my sins and your sins, he offers us forgiveness. But still we must repent of our sin and turn away from the very sin that causes such pain to Christ. It has been said: "It is impossible for a man to be freed from the habit of sin before he hates it, just as it is impossible to receive forgiveness before confessing his trespasses." Ignatius Even when we repent of our sin, and turn towards God we might still have to pay a consequence for a sin that we have committed.
Scriptures teaches us this; "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shall forgive him."
Luke 17: 3-4
It is biblical to rebuke our brother/sister for sinning against us. It is also biblical that we forgive that person if that person repents for hurting and sinning against us. Forgiveness is given after repentence.
True repentance always loves our Lord with a real and deep love.
"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fify. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell Me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest Me no water for MY feet: but she hath washed My feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest Me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss My feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed My feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And He said unto her, thy sins are forgiven." Luke 7: 41-48
So repentence puts the Lord and the other person (that we wronged) first. The wronged individual comes before me and the Lord comes before both of us. So once again, it's more about God and less about me. The Me game begins to dispel.
"People do not drift towards Holiness. Apart from grace driven effort, people do not gravitate towards Godliness, prayer, obedience to Scriture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; we drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; we drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation, we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism, we slide toward godlessness and convince we have been liberated." D. A Carson
With the Lord we can repent of our sins and by the cross we can forgive other people that have hurt us. But.............We can never compromise with untruth and with sin. We can never sit down and be quiet just to get along. We must speak out boldly for the Lord while being able to back up our arguments using scriptures.
It is time that this post comes to a close. I am very interested in learning your views on forgiveness and repentance.
Gods Blessings,
Al
Thanks for starting the post ! Blessings !
~thou Shalt~ :prophecy(tau)400,pentenance (samekh)60,, Providence(Lamed)30,Prudence(Teth)9,Platonic(Heh)5
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...c=20845&hl=
After Christ crucifixation, resurrection, we are no longer under the
old law (yoke of bondage ). We are under : GRACE
[ grace is understood with the 38, date 06-22-2008, of the 8888, Tau cross, Sovereignty of God(IHVH), dream ] :
http://dnascienceconstructspathtogod.blogs...reignty-of.html
(thank you Richard, for this profound web link on Grace)
http://biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Grace.asp
The following two commandments, enforced by Christ himself,
are under ' Thou Shalt '. A no yoke of bondage, based upon LOVE.
() The two commandments are ---> "thou shalt" <-- no yoke of bondage ! Based upon "Love"
() The ten commandments state --> "thou shalt not" <-- that is indeed a yoke of bondage !
Romans 6:14 - "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are NOT under the law, but under GRACE"
Matthew 22: 40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
Matthew 22:36-40
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38 “This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 “The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
Thank-you Jack and C7 for your thoughts. Jack, welcome to our forum family. Now here is where I have difficulty understanding. So many people believe that if they sin that sin will be forgiven if they say a prayer asking for forgiveness. But are the prayers from a mouth that bypasses the heart pleasing to our Lord? So many people do not understand that first we must repent of our sins and true repentance is a turning away from our sin. So some folks keep enjoying sinning and neglecting to repent of their sin.
"Sin and the child of God are incompatible. They may occasionally meet: they cannot live together in harmony."
John R. W. Stott
"You'll never be able to speak against sin if you're entertained by it."
John Muncee
"repentance lifts a man up. Mourning knocks at heaven's gate. Holy humility opens it."
John Climacus
"Sin and the child of God are incompatible. They may occasionally meet: they cannot live together in harmony."
John R. W. Stott
"You'll never be able to speak against sin if you're entertained by it."
John Muncee
"repentance lifts a man up. Mourning knocks at heaven's gate. Holy humility opens it."
John Climacus
Adeline :
During my lifetime, my daddy was one of 13 children, 7 boys and 6 girls.
Large families like that are unheard of in, 2008. People grew crops to feed, these hungry
children & raised offspring off their land . . . everything to sustain the gigantic mouths to feed.
Like our forum, parallel to the world of sisters & brothers . . .
. . . some are in stages of growth, very hungry, needing the bottle/formula of milk
. . . learning to walk, standing-shaking-grasping for leverage and balance, as toddlers.
The mature eat their feel of the meat, using utinsel's which cut with a blade double
edged during the main course of the meal.
Sometimes I observe, that meat eater's by accident during their session of eating food
with these forks & knives, CUT the baby Christian. Or cut a weak Christian in recovery
from sickness of the spirit . . .
Should we not consider why the Word of God (IHVH), used the milk/meat teachings
as also symbolic references to lukewarm Christians. Who have a breathe of life, still
left before JUDGEMENT, to ask for `Grace` and fill their lamps with oil for the journey
we are all taking, to the throne ?
------- stumble ----------- stand ------------ bow/pray ---------------- crawl ---------- stand
------------------->
Shake with trembling . . . legs weak, why not allow each person to work out their salvation
-------------- ?
Why not ?
Sign up for the plasma, receive the milk teachings to advance to meat !
Today, 08:55 AM, July 8th, 2008
Sign Up For The Plasma, Receive The Milk Teachings To Advance To Meat !, Parallel between plasma/milk/whey . . .
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...c=21020&hl=
This morning, I read over some topic postings of mine from yesterday, July 7th, 2008.
As I was reading, my eyes (Ayin) were opened to the discernment of plasma : see item #4
4. The fluid portion of milk from which the curd has been separated by coagulation; whey.
As soon as I re-read this information about ' plasma ' being the MILK parallel to whey, I jumped
for joy.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_...5&chapter=5
Hebrews 5
Warning Against Falling Away
11We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. 12In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whey
Whey or milk plasma is the liquid remaining after milk has been curdled and strained; it is a by-product of the manufacture of cheese or casein and has several commercial uses. Sweet whey is manufactured during the making of rennet types of hard cheese like cheddar or Swiss cheese. Acid whey (also known as sour whey) is obtained during the making of acid types of cheese such as cottage cheese.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Plasmatic
plas·matic (plz-mtk), plasmic (-mk) adj.
plas·ma (plzm) also plasm (plzm)
n.
1.
a. The clear, yellowish fluid portion of blood, lymph, or intramuscular fluid in which cells are suspended. It differs from serum in that it contains fibrin and other soluble clotting elements.
b. Blood plasma.
2. Medicine Cell-free, sterilized blood plasma, used in transfusions.
3. Protoplasm or cytoplasm.
4. The fluid portion of milk from which the curd has been separated by coagulation; whey.
5. Physics An electrically neutral, highly ionized gas composed of ions, electrons, and neutral particles. It is a phase of matter distinct from solids, liquids, and normal gases.
Click here: WHAT DO WE HAVE TO EAT? . As far back as I can remember mature Christians around me have t
http://www.skepticfiles.org/ignor/isue04k.htm
WHAT DO WE HAVE TO EAT?
. As far back as I can remember mature Christians around me have
talked about sermons as MILK or MEAT. I don't remember ever asking
any of them what they mean by these terms, so I can say only what I
think they mean by them. By milk I think they mean a clear , easy
account of the basic Christian faith - how Christians can be set right
with God and how they can work towards holiness. By meat I think they
mean a rigorous examination of the subtle doctrines and mysteries of
theology.
. They seem to think that each diet has its place. Milk is all
right for anybody, but it is especially for people whose mental grasp
of Christianity is shallow. Meat is for people with better training
and more inquiring minds. Milk is likely to soften disagreements
between Christians and to play down distinctions between doctrine.
Meat, on the other hand, is apt to emphasize these differences and to
trace their implications through obscure issues. This, I think is
what people mean by milk and meat.
MILK AND MEAT IN HEBREWS
. This milk and meat talk comes from the Bible. The last four
verses of Hebrews 5 say, "We have much to say about this [the
priesthood of Christ], but it is hard to explain, because you are to
slow to learn. ...You need milk, being still an infant, not acquainted
with the teaching of righteousness. But solid food is for the mature,
who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from
evil."
. This sounds at first like what I described earlier. When we look
a bit further though, we find a big difference. Hebrews 6: 1-8 points
out that what makes milk MILK is not that it is easier to understand,
but that it must come from our Christian growth. Certain people have
to be on it for a long time, not because they can't understand meaty
teachings, but because they haven't put the first teachings into
practice yet. They are spiritually lazy and proud, consequently they
are in danger of falling away altogether.
. So, too, the solid food of Christian wisdom is not for the
intelligent. Rather, its for persons who persistently deny themselves
and follow Christ's example of loving service to others. The mature
are those "who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish
god from evil." The kind of food we need depends not on what we can
understand, but on how we live.
MILK AND MEAT IN 1 CORINTHIANS
. The Bible says more about milk and meat. In 1 Corinthians 3:2-3,
Paul writes, "I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not ready
for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For
since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not
worldly?"
. A meaty sermon, accordingly to the notion first outlined here,
might very likely accent differences between Christians. According to
this notion, Christians who eat solid food are those who are zealous
for doctrinal distinctiveness and wary of cooperating with other kinds
of Christians. According to the Bible, though, these Christians are
fooling themselves. They aren't ready for solid food; they need milk.
. The Greek word translated as jealousy in verse three points to a
partisan zeal at the expense of the larger Christian fellowship. This
kind of zeal is not a mark of Christian maturity, but of spiritual
childishness. We should all try to become sensitive to doctrinal
purity and to doctrinal error, but we must work our doctrinal
sensitivity into a full-grown, healthy Christian personality.
Otherwise we will wind up fighting with each other, suspecting each
other of evil purposes, and finding it hard even to talk to one
another.
. Try to remember 1 Corinthians 3 as you work out problems in your
spiritual growth and relationships with other Christians that are
different from you.
Written by: James l. Vanderlaan
Computers for Christ - Chicago
During my lifetime, my daddy was one of 13 children, 7 boys and 6 girls.
Large families like that are unheard of in, 2008. People grew crops to feed, these hungry
children & raised offspring off their land . . . everything to sustain the gigantic mouths to feed.
Like our forum, parallel to the world of sisters & brothers . . .
. . . some are in stages of growth, very hungry, needing the bottle/formula of milk
. . . learning to walk, standing-shaking-grasping for leverage and balance, as toddlers.
The mature eat their feel of the meat, using utinsel's which cut with a blade double
edged during the main course of the meal.
Sometimes I observe, that meat eater's by accident during their session of eating food
with these forks & knives, CUT the baby Christian. Or cut a weak Christian in recovery
from sickness of the spirit . . .
Should we not consider why the Word of God (IHVH), used the milk/meat teachings
as also symbolic references to lukewarm Christians. Who have a breathe of life, still
left before JUDGEMENT, to ask for `Grace` and fill their lamps with oil for the journey
we are all taking, to the throne ?
------- stumble ----------- stand ------------ bow/pray ---------------- crawl ---------- stand
------------------->
Shake with trembling . . . legs weak, why not allow each person to work out their salvation
-------------- ?
Why not ?
Sign up for the plasma, receive the milk teachings to advance to meat !
Today, 08:55 AM, July 8th, 2008
Sign Up For The Plasma, Receive The Milk Teachings To Advance To Meat !, Parallel between plasma/milk/whey . . .
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...c=21020&hl=
This morning, I read over some topic postings of mine from yesterday, July 7th, 2008.
As I was reading, my eyes (Ayin) were opened to the discernment of plasma : see item #4
4. The fluid portion of milk from which the curd has been separated by coagulation; whey.
As soon as I re-read this information about ' plasma ' being the MILK parallel to whey, I jumped
for joy.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_...5&chapter=5
Hebrews 5
Warning Against Falling Away
11We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. 12In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whey
Whey or milk plasma is the liquid remaining after milk has been curdled and strained; it is a by-product of the manufacture of cheese or casein and has several commercial uses. Sweet whey is manufactured during the making of rennet types of hard cheese like cheddar or Swiss cheese. Acid whey (also known as sour whey) is obtained during the making of acid types of cheese such as cottage cheese.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Plasmatic
plas·matic (plz-mtk), plasmic (-mk) adj.
plas·ma (plzm) also plasm (plzm)
n.
1.
a. The clear, yellowish fluid portion of blood, lymph, or intramuscular fluid in which cells are suspended. It differs from serum in that it contains fibrin and other soluble clotting elements.
b. Blood plasma.
2. Medicine Cell-free, sterilized blood plasma, used in transfusions.
3. Protoplasm or cytoplasm.
4. The fluid portion of milk from which the curd has been separated by coagulation; whey.
5. Physics An electrically neutral, highly ionized gas composed of ions, electrons, and neutral particles. It is a phase of matter distinct from solids, liquids, and normal gases.
Click here: WHAT DO WE HAVE TO EAT? . As far back as I can remember mature Christians around me have t
http://www.skepticfiles.org/ignor/isue04k.htm
WHAT DO WE HAVE TO EAT?
. As far back as I can remember mature Christians around me have
talked about sermons as MILK or MEAT. I don't remember ever asking
any of them what they mean by these terms, so I can say only what I
think they mean by them. By milk I think they mean a clear , easy
account of the basic Christian faith - how Christians can be set right
with God and how they can work towards holiness. By meat I think they
mean a rigorous examination of the subtle doctrines and mysteries of
theology.
. They seem to think that each diet has its place. Milk is all
right for anybody, but it is especially for people whose mental grasp
of Christianity is shallow. Meat is for people with better training
and more inquiring minds. Milk is likely to soften disagreements
between Christians and to play down distinctions between doctrine.
Meat, on the other hand, is apt to emphasize these differences and to
trace their implications through obscure issues. This, I think is
what people mean by milk and meat.
MILK AND MEAT IN HEBREWS
. This milk and meat talk comes from the Bible. The last four
verses of Hebrews 5 say, "We have much to say about this [the
priesthood of Christ], but it is hard to explain, because you are to
slow to learn. ...You need milk, being still an infant, not acquainted
with the teaching of righteousness. But solid food is for the mature,
who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from
evil."
. This sounds at first like what I described earlier. When we look
a bit further though, we find a big difference. Hebrews 6: 1-8 points
out that what makes milk MILK is not that it is easier to understand,
but that it must come from our Christian growth. Certain people have
to be on it for a long time, not because they can't understand meaty
teachings, but because they haven't put the first teachings into
practice yet. They are spiritually lazy and proud, consequently they
are in danger of falling away altogether.
. So, too, the solid food of Christian wisdom is not for the
intelligent. Rather, its for persons who persistently deny themselves
and follow Christ's example of loving service to others. The mature
are those "who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish
god from evil." The kind of food we need depends not on what we can
understand, but on how we live.
MILK AND MEAT IN 1 CORINTHIANS
. The Bible says more about milk and meat. In 1 Corinthians 3:2-3,
Paul writes, "I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not ready
for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For
since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not
worldly?"
. A meaty sermon, accordingly to the notion first outlined here,
might very likely accent differences between Christians. According to
this notion, Christians who eat solid food are those who are zealous
for doctrinal distinctiveness and wary of cooperating with other kinds
of Christians. According to the Bible, though, these Christians are
fooling themselves. They aren't ready for solid food; they need milk.
. The Greek word translated as jealousy in verse three points to a
partisan zeal at the expense of the larger Christian fellowship. This
kind of zeal is not a mark of Christian maturity, but of spiritual
childishness. We should all try to become sensitive to doctrinal
purity and to doctrinal error, but we must work our doctrinal
sensitivity into a full-grown, healthy Christian personality.
Otherwise we will wind up fighting with each other, suspecting each
other of evil purposes, and finding it hard even to talk to one
another.
. Try to remember 1 Corinthians 3 as you work out problems in your
spiritual growth and relationships with other Christians that are
different from you.
Written by: James l. Vanderlaan
Computers for Christ - Chicago
QUOTE (crownsevenalphabet @ Aug 24 2008, 03:49 AM)
MILK AND MEAT IN HEBREWS
. This milk and meat talk comes from the Bible. The last four
verses of Hebrews 5 say, "We have much to say about this [the
priesthood of Christ], but it is hard to explain, because you are to
slow to learn. ...You need milk, being still an infant, not acquainted
with the teaching of righteousness. But solid food is for the mature,
who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from
evil."
. This sounds at first like what I described earlier. When we look
a bit further though, we find a big difference. Hebrews 6: 1-8 points
out that what makes milk MILK is not that it is easier to understand,
but that it must come from our Christian growth. Certain people have
to be on it for a long time, not because they can't understand meaty
teachings, but because they haven't put the first teachings into
practice yet. They are spiritually lazy and proud, consequently they
are in danger of falling away altogether.
. So, too, the solid food of Christian wisdom is not for the
intelligent. Rather, its for persons who persistently deny themselves
and follow Christ's example of loving service to others. The mature
are those "who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish
god from evil." The kind of food we need depends not on what we can
understand, but on how we live.
MILK AND MEAT IN 1 CORINTHIANS
The Bible says more about milk and meat. In 1 Corinthians 3:2-3,
Paul writes, "I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not ready
for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For
since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not
worldly?". A meaty sermon, accordingly to the notion first outlined here,
might very likely accent differences between Christians. According to
this notion, Christians who eat solid food are those who are zealous
for doctrinal distinctiveness and wary of cooperating with other kinds
of Christians. According to the Bible, though, these Christians are
fooling themselves. They aren't ready for solid food; they need milk..
The Greek word translated as jealousy in verse three points to a
partisan zeal at the expense of the larger Christian fellowship. This
kind of zeal is not a mark of Christian maturity, but of spiritual
childishness. We should all try to become sensitive to doctrinal
purity and to doctrinal error, but we must work our doctrinal
sensitivity into a full-grown, healthy Christian personality.
Otherwise we will wind up fighting with each other, suspecting each
other of evil purposes, and finding it hard even to talk to one
another.
. Try to remember 1 Corinthians 3 as you work out problems in your
spiritual growth and relationships with other Christians that are
different from you.
Written by: James l. Vanderlaan
Computers for Christ - Chicago
. This milk and meat talk comes from the Bible. The last four
verses of Hebrews 5 say, "We have much to say about this [the
priesthood of Christ], but it is hard to explain, because you are to
slow to learn. ...You need milk, being still an infant, not acquainted
with the teaching of righteousness. But solid food is for the mature,
who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from
evil."
. This sounds at first like what I described earlier. When we look
a bit further though, we find a big difference. Hebrews 6: 1-8 points
out that what makes milk MILK is not that it is easier to understand,
but that it must come from our Christian growth. Certain people have
to be on it for a long time, not because they can't understand meaty
teachings, but because they haven't put the first teachings into
practice yet. They are spiritually lazy and proud, consequently they
are in danger of falling away altogether.
. So, too, the solid food of Christian wisdom is not for the
intelligent. Rather, its for persons who persistently deny themselves
and follow Christ's example of loving service to others. The mature
are those "who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish
god from evil." The kind of food we need depends not on what we can
understand, but on how we live.
MILK AND MEAT IN 1 CORINTHIANS
The Bible says more about milk and meat. In 1 Corinthians 3:2-3,
Paul writes, "I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not ready
for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For
since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not
worldly?". A meaty sermon, accordingly to the notion first outlined here,
might very likely accent differences between Christians. According to
this notion, Christians who eat solid food are those who are zealous
for doctrinal distinctiveness and wary of cooperating with other kinds
of Christians. According to the Bible, though, these Christians are
fooling themselves. They aren't ready for solid food; they need milk..
The Greek word translated as jealousy in verse three points to a
partisan zeal at the expense of the larger Christian fellowship. This
kind of zeal is not a mark of Christian maturity, but of spiritual
childishness. We should all try to become sensitive to doctrinal
purity and to doctrinal error, but we must work our doctrinal
sensitivity into a full-grown, healthy Christian personality.
Otherwise we will wind up fighting with each other, suspecting each
other of evil purposes, and finding it hard even to talk to one
another.
. Try to remember 1 Corinthians 3 as you work out problems in your
spiritual growth and relationships with other Christians that are
different from you.
Written by: James l. Vanderlaan
Computers for Christ - Chicago
Terrific post Betty....and very timely!
The points made should be considered by all of us...no matter where we are in our spiritual walk. My question though would be...while on this walk where we are all learning how do you combat one that is not just "different" but brings constant discord that doesn't in any way relate to the walk? In other words it doesn't seem to have much to do with "spiritual growth" as far as Biblical understanding although it does teach how to relate to others.
According to Proverbs there are "six things doth the Lord hate," and one of those is......[Proverbs 6:19] And he that soweth discord among brethren.
There will be wrangling back and forth about scripture...as there should be. This is how we question and learn but discord sown in place of that is non-productive. So, though we should "work out problems in your spiritual growth and relationships with other Christians that are different from you," how far does that go before the one sowing the discord should be given a time out, made to go to their room, have to sit in a corner or privileges get taken away? Those things are done to a beloved child as a teaching tool so they understand the disruption they have caused but what of an adult causing child like disruption? In other words, should not the one causing the problem come to terms with being the problem? If yes, then how does a more mature Christian (using your analogy) help stop the discord?
I know the answer Whirlwind... stop posting if you feel that discord will continue from a post you will make. Just ignore it. That's how. You made a remark and laughed on Justice's post, but that also is sowing discord... so you are asking about something you already know the answer to. Ignore, Block, etc. 
We have a choice.
We have a choice.
QUOTE (whirlwind @ Aug 24 2008, 07:04 AM)
QUOTE (crownsevenalphabet @ Aug 24 2008, 03:49 AM)
MILK AND MEAT IN HEBREWS
. This milk and meat talk comes from the Bible. The last four
verses of Hebrews 5 say, "We have much to say about this [the
priesthood of Christ], but it is hard to explain, because you are to
slow to learn. ...You need milk, being still an infant, not acquainted
with the teaching of righteousness. But solid food is for the mature,
who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from
evil."
. This sounds at first like what I described earlier. When we look
a bit further though, we find a big difference. Hebrews 6: 1-8 points
out that what makes milk MILK is not that it is easier to understand,
but that it must come from our Christian growth. Certain people have
to be on it for a long time, not because they can't understand meaty
teachings, but because they haven't put the first teachings into
practice yet. They are spiritually lazy and proud, consequently they
are in danger of falling away altogether.
. So, too, the solid food of Christian wisdom is not for the
intelligent. Rather, its for persons who persistently deny themselves
and follow Christ's example of loving service to others. The mature
are those "who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish
god from evil." The kind of food we need depends not on what we can
understand, but on how we live.
MILK AND MEAT IN 1 CORINTHIANS
The Bible says more about milk and meat. In 1 Corinthians 3:2-3,
Paul writes, "I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not ready
for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For
since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not
worldly?". A meaty sermon, accordingly to the notion first outlined here,
might very likely accent differences between Christians. According to
this notion, Christians who eat solid food are those who are zealous
for doctrinal distinctiveness and wary of cooperating with other kinds
of Christians. According to the Bible, though, these Christians are
fooling themselves. They aren't ready for solid food; they need milk..
The Greek word translated as jealousy in verse three points to a
partisan zeal at the expense of the larger Christian fellowship. This
kind of zeal is not a mark of Christian maturity, but of spiritual
childishness. We should all try to become sensitive to doctrinal
purity and to doctrinal error, but we must work our doctrinal
sensitivity into a full-grown, healthy Christian personality.
Otherwise we will wind up fighting with each other, suspecting each
other of evil purposes, and finding it hard even to talk to one
another.
. Try to remember 1 Corinthians 3 as you work out problems in your
spiritual growth and relationships with other Christians that are
different from you.
Written by: James l. Vanderlaan
Computers for Christ - Chicago
. This milk and meat talk comes from the Bible. The last four
verses of Hebrews 5 say, "We have much to say about this [the
priesthood of Christ], but it is hard to explain, because you are to
slow to learn. ...You need milk, being still an infant, not acquainted
with the teaching of righteousness. But solid food is for the mature,
who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from
evil."
. This sounds at first like what I described earlier. When we look
a bit further though, we find a big difference. Hebrews 6: 1-8 points
out that what makes milk MILK is not that it is easier to understand,
but that it must come from our Christian growth. Certain people have
to be on it for a long time, not because they can't understand meaty
teachings, but because they haven't put the first teachings into
practice yet. They are spiritually lazy and proud, consequently they
are in danger of falling away altogether.
. So, too, the solid food of Christian wisdom is not for the
intelligent. Rather, its for persons who persistently deny themselves
and follow Christ's example of loving service to others. The mature
are those "who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish
god from evil." The kind of food we need depends not on what we can
understand, but on how we live.
MILK AND MEAT IN 1 CORINTHIANS
The Bible says more about milk and meat. In 1 Corinthians 3:2-3,
Paul writes, "I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not ready
for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For
since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not
worldly?". A meaty sermon, accordingly to the notion first outlined here,
might very likely accent differences between Christians. According to
this notion, Christians who eat solid food are those who are zealous
for doctrinal distinctiveness and wary of cooperating with other kinds
of Christians. According to the Bible, though, these Christians are
fooling themselves. They aren't ready for solid food; they need milk..
The Greek word translated as jealousy in verse three points to a
partisan zeal at the expense of the larger Christian fellowship. This
kind of zeal is not a mark of Christian maturity, but of spiritual
childishness. We should all try to become sensitive to doctrinal
purity and to doctrinal error, but we must work our doctrinal
sensitivity into a full-grown, healthy Christian personality.
Otherwise we will wind up fighting with each other, suspecting each
other of evil purposes, and finding it hard even to talk to one
another.
. Try to remember 1 Corinthians 3 as you work out problems in your
spiritual growth and relationships with other Christians that are
different from you.
Written by: James l. Vanderlaan
Computers for Christ - Chicago
Terrific post Betty....and very timely!
The points made should be considered by all of us...no matter where we are in our spiritual walk. My question though would be...while on this walk where we are all learning how do you combat one that is not just "different" but brings constant discord that doesn't in any way relate to the walk? In other words it doesn't seem to have much to do with "spiritual growth" as far as Biblical understanding although it does teach how to relate to others.
According to Proverbs there are "six things doth the Lord hate," and one of those is......[Proverbs 6:19] And he that soweth discord among brethren.
There will be wrangling back and forth about scripture...as there should be. This is how we question and learn but discord sown in place of that is non-productive. So, though we should "work out problems in your spiritual growth and relationships with other Christians that are different from you," how far does that go before the one sowing the discord should be given a time out, made to go to their room, have to sit in a corner or privileges get taken away? Those things are done to a beloved child as a teaching tool so they understand the disruption they have caused but what of an adult causing child like disruption? In other words, should not the one causing the problem come to terms with being the problem? If yes, then how does a more mature Christian (using your analogy) help stop the discord?
Hi Whirlwind,
""But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such man do not even eat."
1 Corinthians 5:11
Could the above verse be speaking to us concerning pretend Christians? Those Christians that wear a mask of saintly innocence but inside are wolves in sheeps clothing? Inside this sort of Christian in which they might cast spells and proclaim judgements that are not biblical/Godly. If so Scriptures warns us to stay away from them.
Gods Blessings,
Al
And you're right Al. Stay away from them...that's what God would have you to do. Or stop posting. There are many ways of handling discord.. just stop joining in! And be blessed and worry about your own salvation and your own spiritual relationship with God. I think we all have to stop worrying about what other people are doing and let them be, to do their own thing. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it, you can leave, shut off your computer, or take a walk. This is life... we will have things we don't like and these are things God uses to test us to see if we pass or fail.
Just because you stick a Scipture in a post doesn't mean you are doing what the Scripture says, you are just posting it. I can read my Bible too!
Blessings,
Rose
And be blessed and worry about your own salvation and your own spiritual relationship with God. I think we all have to stop worrying about what other people are doing and let them be, to do their own thing. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it, you can leave, shut off your computer, or take a walk. This is life... we will have things we don't like and these are things God uses to test us to see if we pass or fail. Just because you stick a Scipture in a post doesn't mean you are doing what the Scripture says, you are just posting it. I can read my Bible too!
Blessings,
Rose
QUOTE (whirlwind @ Aug 24 2008, 07:04 AM)
QUOTE (crownsevenalphabet @ Aug 24 2008, 03:49 AM)
MILK AND MEAT IN HEBREWS
. This milk and meat talk comes from the Bible. The last four
verses of Hebrews 5 say, "We have much to say about this [the
priesthood of Christ], but it is hard to explain, because you are to
slow to learn. ...You need milk, being still an infant, not acquainted
with the teaching of righteousness. But solid food is for the mature,
who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from
evil."
. This sounds at first like what I described earlier. When we look
a bit further though, we find a big difference. Hebrews 6: 1-8 points
out that what makes milk MILK is not that it is easier to understand,
but that it must come from our Christian growth. Certain people have
to be on it for a long time, not because they can't understand meaty
teachings, but because they haven't put the first teachings into
practice yet. They are spiritually lazy and proud, consequently they
are in danger of falling away altogether.
. So, too, the solid food of Christian wisdom is not for the
intelligent. Rather, its for persons who persistently deny themselves
and follow Christ's example of loving service to others. The mature
are those "who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish
god from evil." The kind of food we need depends not on what we can
understand, but on how we live.
MILK AND MEAT IN 1 CORINTHIANS
The Bible says more about milk and meat. In 1 Corinthians 3:2-3,
Paul writes, "I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not ready
for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For
since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not
worldly?". A meaty sermon, accordingly to the notion first outlined here,
might very likely accent differences between Christians. According to
this notion, Christians who eat solid food are those who are zealous
for doctrinal distinctiveness and wary of cooperating with other kinds
of Christians. According to the Bible, though, these Christians are
fooling themselves. They aren't ready for solid food; they need milk..
The Greek word translated as jealousy in verse three points to a
partisan zeal at the expense of the larger Christian fellowship. This
kind of zeal is not a mark of Christian maturity, but of spiritual
childishness. We should all try to become sensitive to doctrinal
purity and to doctrinal error, but we must work our doctrinal
sensitivity into a full-grown, healthy Christian personality.
Otherwise we will wind up fighting with each other, suspecting each
other of evil purposes, and finding it hard even to talk to one
another.
. Try to remember 1 Corinthians 3 as you work out problems in your
spiritual growth and relationships with other Christians that are
different from you.
Written by: James l. Vanderlaan
Computers for Christ - Chicago
. This milk and meat talk comes from the Bible. The last four
verses of Hebrews 5 say, "We have much to say about this [the
priesthood of Christ], but it is hard to explain, because you are to
slow to learn. ...You need milk, being still an infant, not acquainted
with the teaching of righteousness. But solid food is for the mature,
who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from
evil."
. This sounds at first like what I described earlier. When we look
a bit further though, we find a big difference. Hebrews 6: 1-8 points
out that what makes milk MILK is not that it is easier to understand,
but that it must come from our Christian growth. Certain people have
to be on it for a long time, not because they can't understand meaty
teachings, but because they haven't put the first teachings into
practice yet. They are spiritually lazy and proud, consequently they
are in danger of falling away altogether.
. So, too, the solid food of Christian wisdom is not for the
intelligent. Rather, its for persons who persistently deny themselves
and follow Christ's example of loving service to others. The mature
are those "who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish
god from evil." The kind of food we need depends not on what we can
understand, but on how we live.
MILK AND MEAT IN 1 CORINTHIANS
The Bible says more about milk and meat. In 1 Corinthians 3:2-3,
Paul writes, "I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not ready
for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For
since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not
worldly?". A meaty sermon, accordingly to the notion first outlined here,
might very likely accent differences between Christians. According to
this notion, Christians who eat solid food are those who are zealous
for doctrinal distinctiveness and wary of cooperating with other kinds
of Christians. According to the Bible, though, these Christians are
fooling themselves. They aren't ready for solid food; they need milk..
The Greek word translated as jealousy in verse three points to a
partisan zeal at the expense of the larger Christian fellowship. This
kind of zeal is not a mark of Christian maturity, but of spiritual
childishness. We should all try to become sensitive to doctrinal
purity and to doctrinal error, but we must work our doctrinal
sensitivity into a full-grown, healthy Christian personality.
Otherwise we will wind up fighting with each other, suspecting each
other of evil purposes, and finding it hard even to talk to one
another.
. Try to remember 1 Corinthians 3 as you work out problems in your
spiritual growth and relationships with other Christians that are
different from you.
Written by: James l. Vanderlaan
Computers for Christ - Chicago
Terrific post Betty....and very timely!
The points made should be considered by all of us...no matter where we are in our spiritual walk. My question though would be...while on this walk where we are all learning how do you combat one that is not just "different" but brings constant discord that doesn't in any way relate to the walk? In other words it doesn't seem to have much to do with "spiritual growth" as far as Biblical understanding although it does teach how to relate to others.
According to Proverbs there are "six things doth the Lord hate," and one of those is......[Proverbs 6:19] And he that soweth discord among brethren.
There will be wrangling back and forth about scripture...as there should be. This is how we question and learn but discord sown in place of that is non-productive. So, though we should "work out problems in your spiritual growth and relationships with other Christians that are different from you," how far does that go before the one sowing the discord should be given a time out, made to go to their room, have to sit in a corner or privileges get taken away? Those things are done to a beloved child as a teaching tool so they understand the disruption they have caused but what of an adult causing child like disruption? In other words, should not the one causing the problem come to terms with being the problem? If yes, then how does a more mature Christian (using your analogy) help stop the discord?
Dearest Whirlwind, faithful daughter of God (IHVH) . . .
You have much wisdom.
And indeed you ask the question I ask : about, ` help stop the discord`
And this was the answer to me, I pray you will pray with me, concerning this answer.
POST#11
Book Of Lamentations = `funeral Songs`, LESSONS:~Parallel tribute to Justice/ThisWind~
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...t=6&start=6
I do not care if DEBATE, was in the PAST, obnoxious. Why ? Because
I was shown yesterday, that my purpose is not to be concerned about
the former discussion's & obnoxious behavior's . . . Why ? Because
Zechariah, in chapter's 7 & 8, called the people to obey God . . . by
acting fairly and mercifully to one another.
So, I was told to set the example of acting fairly & mercifully toward
one another.
Will the READER, agree to try to enact this wisdom of Zechariah, in
these parallel unfolding's I am seeing in Lamentations ?
I pray the reader will try . . .
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obnoxious
1archaic : exposed to something unpleasant or harmful —used with to2archaic : deserving of censure3: odiously or disgustingly objectionable : highly offensive
— ob·nox·ious·ly adverb
— ob·nox·ious·ness noun
~how God(ihvh) Uses The Babylonians, The Debate, the obnoxious, for His
Divine Purpose, do you ?~
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...mp;#entry227356
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