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dennis mann
The A/C will be an ADEPT in WITCHCRAFT, understanding DARK SENTENCES.

CRAFT = witchcraft,,,,Masonry = CRAFT






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrA9uNIyADY...ECC&index=0

Lion and Lamb TV : The Final Empire -- ROME Phase 2, Part 1 o



Craft = witchcraft

The a/c will be an ADEPT in WITCHCRAFT

Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.



Daniel 8:23
And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.











I SEARCHED for every word “CRAFT” in the KJV:



Results 1-23 of 23
1. Deuteronomy 27:15
Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.
Deuteronomy 27:14-16 (in Context) Deuteronomy 27 (Whole Chapter)
2. 2 Kings 24:14
And he carried away all Jerusalem, and all the princes, and all the mighty men of valour, even ten thousand captives, and all the craftsmen and smiths: none remained, save the poorest sort of the people of the land.
2 Kings 24:13-15 (in Context) 2 Kings 24 (Whole Chapter)
3. 2 Kings 24:16
And all the men of might, even seven thousand, and craftsmen and smiths a thousand, all that were strong and apt for war, even them the king of Babylon brought captive to Babylon.
2 Kings 24:15-17 (in Context) 2 Kings 24 (Whole Chapter)
4. 1 Chronicles 4:14
And Meonothai begat Ophrah: and Seraiah begat Joab, the father of the valley of Charashim; for they were craftsmen.
1 Chronicles 4:13-15 (in Context) 1 Chronicles 4 (Whole Chapter)
5. Nehemiah 11:35
Lod, and Ono, the valley of craftsmen.
Nehemiah 11:34-36 (in Context) Nehemiah 11 (Whole Chapter)
6. Job 5:12
He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
Job 5:11-13 (in Context) Job 5 (Whole Chapter)
7. Job 5:13
He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.
Job 5:12-14 (in Context) Job 5 (Whole Chapter)
8. Job 15:5
For thy mouth uttereth thine iniquity, and thou choosest the tongue of the crafty.
Job 15:4-6 (in Context) Job 15 (Whole Chapter)
9. Psalm 83:3
They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
Psalm 83:2-4 (in Context) Psalm 83 (Whole Chapter)
10. Daniel 8:25
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Daniel 8:24-26 (in Context) Daniel 8 (Whole Chapter)
11. Hosea 13:2
And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves.
Hosea 13:1-3 (in Context) Hosea 13 (Whole Chapter)
12. Mark 14:1
After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.
Mark 14:1-3 (in Context) Mark 14 (Whole Chapter)
13. Luke 20:23
But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?
Luke 20:22-24 (in Context) Luke 20 (Whole Chapter)
14. Acts 18:3
And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.
Acts 18:2-4 (in Context) Acts 18 (Whole Chapter)
15. Acts 19:24
For a certain man named Demetrius, a silversmith, which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen;
Acts 19:23-25 (in Context) Acts 19 (Whole Chapter)
16. Acts 19:25
Whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth.
Acts 19:24-26 (in Context) Acts 19 (Whole Chapter)
17. Acts 19:27
So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.
Acts 19:26-28 (in Context) Acts 19 (Whole Chapter)
18. Acts 19:38
Wherefore if Demetrius, and the craftsmen which are with him, have a matter against any man, the law is open, and there are deputies: let them implead one another.
Acts 19:37-39 (in Context) Acts 19 (Whole Chapter)
19. 1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1 Corinthians 3:18-20 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 3 (Whole Chapter)
20. 2 Corinthians 4:2
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2 Corinthians 4:1-3 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 4 (Whole Chapter)
21. 2 Corinthians 12:16
But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.
2 Corinthians 12:15-17 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 12 (Whole Chapter)
22. Ephesians 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Ephesians 4:13-15 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter)
23. Revelation 18:22
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Revelation 18:21-23 (in Context) Revelation 18 (Whole Chapter)
rush4hire
Acts 19:24 For a certain [man] named Demetrius, a silversmith, which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen;
19:25 Whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth.
19:26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:
19:27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.
19:28 And when they heard [these sayings], they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great [is] Diana of the Ephesians.
19:29 And the whole city was filled with confusion:


The Gospel was opposed to idolatry. The craftsman felt threatened that they would lose their business, so they opposed the gospel. But the Antichrist says we can worship idols of Jesus and His mom. That's pretty tricky, and alot of people are deceived by that. This policy is opposed to the gospel, and that's why in the Dark Ages, you saw men who where opposed to idolatry being falsely accused and burned at the stake.

Now we have a decision. Be burned at the stake with those opposed to idolatry, or join together with the idolaters in ecumenical fellowship.









All over the world Catholic idolatry is big business. You also see it glorified in the movies. Vampires are terrified of Catholic idols. This is to condition us to think it's ok.

If you have ever been to a third world country dominated by Catholicism, you will find they are very superstitious. They parade their idols through the streets. They have shrines in their houses where they make food and incense offerings to their idols. They have them in their stores where they hang flowers on them.
dennis mann
thanks,

Freemasonry is called the "Craft" by Masons.

the RCC is like JUDAISM.........they emphasize the physical, and downplay the Spiritual.

Carnal people are drawn to the Physical.
Christians love the Spiritual things of God.
rush4hire
Well I have made uninformed statements. I retract. I have my e-sword Bible software here, but sometimes I don't use it. The word "craft" here means deceit.

QUOTE (Strongs)
H4820
mirma^h
meer-maw'
From H7411 in the sense of deceiving; fraud: - craft, deceit (-ful, -fully), false, feigned, guile, subtilly, treachery.


Just for reference, and because I have a special program, I'll post here all the verses where this word is used:

Gen 27:35 And he said, Thy brother came with subtlety, (mirma^h) and hath taken away thy blessing.

Gen 34:13 And the sons of Jacob answered Shechem and Hamor his father deceitfully, (mirma^h) and said, because he had defiled Dinah their sister:

2Ki 9:23 And Joram turned his hands, and fled, and said to Ahaziah, There is treachery, (mirma^h) O Ahaziah.

Job 15:35 They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity, and their belly prepareth deceit. (mirma^h)

Job 31:5 If I have walked with vanity, or if my foot hath hasted to deceit; (mirma^h)

Psa 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful (mirma^h) man.

Psa 10:7 His mouth is full of cursing and deceit (mirma^h) and fraud: under his tongue is mischief and vanity.

Psa 17:1 A Prayer of David. Hear the right, O LORD attend unto my cry, give ear unto my prayer, that goeth not out of feigned (mirma^h) lips.

Psa 24:4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully. (mirma^h)

Psa 34:13 Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking, guile. (mirma^h)

Psa 35:20 For they speak not peace: but they devise deceitful (mirma^h) matters against them that are quiet in the land.

Psa 36:3 The words of his mouth are iniquity and deceit: (mirma^h) he hath left off to be wise, and to do good.

Psa 38:12 They also that seek after my life lay snares for me: and they that seek my hurt speak mischievous things, and imagine deceits (mirma^h) all the day long.

Psa 43:1 Judge me, O God, and plead my cause against an ungodly, nation:, O deliver me from the deceitful (mirma^h) and unjust man.,

Psa 50:19 Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit. (mirma^h)

Psa 52:4 Thou lovest all devouring words, O thou deceitful (mirma^h) tongue.

Psa 55:11 Wickedness is in the midst thereof: deceit and guile (mirma^h) depart not from her streets.

Psa 55:23 But thou, O God, shalt bring them down into the pit of destruction: bloody and deceitful (mirma^h) men shall not live out half their days; but I will trust in thee.

Psa 109:2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful (mirma^h) are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.

Pro 11:1 A false (mirma^h) balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

Pro 12:5 The thoughts of the righteous are right: but the counsels of the wicked are deceit. (mirma^h)

Pro 12:17 He that speaketh truth showeth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit. (mirma^h)

Pro 12:20 Deceit (mirma^h) is in the heart of them that imagine evil: but to the counselors of peace is joy.

Pro 14:8 The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way: but the folly of fools is deceit. (mirma^h)

Pro 14:25 A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful (mirma^h) witness speaketh lies.

Pro 20:23 Divers weights, are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false (mirma^h) balance is not good.

Pro 26:24 He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit (mirma^h) within him;

Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit (mirma^h) in his mouth.

Jer 5:27 As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: (mirma^h) therefore, they are become great, and waxen rich.

Jer 9:6 Thine habitation is in the midst of deceit; (mirma^h) through deceit (mirma^h)[/b] they refuse to know me, saith the LORD.

Jer 9:8 Their tongue is as an arrow shot out; it speaketh deceit: (mirma^h) one speaketh peaceably to his neighbor with his mouth, but in heart he layeth his wait.

Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft (mirma^h) to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Dan 11:23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: (mirma^h) for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

Hos 11:12 Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: (mirma^h) but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.

Hos 12:7 He is a merchant, the balances of deceit (mirma^h) are in his hand: he loveth to oppress.

Amo 8:5 Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small,, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit? (mirma^h)

Mic 6:11 Shall I count them pure with the wicked balances, and with the bag of deceitful (mirma^h) weights?

Zep 1:9 In the same day also will I punish, all those that leap on the threshold, which fill their masters' houses with violence and deceit. (mirma^h)


Looks like it's only translated one time as "craft", and the other 38 times it's "deceit" or "guile" or something like that.

So it's deception or lies that he causes to prosper.

They used to say that if you paid money, the priest could pray and your loved one would come out of purgatory and go to heaven. That's a very big lie, but it turned out to be quite profitable.

And there where indulgences which where official papers written by Catholic bishops that declared absolution from past, present and future sins. So you could buy an indulgence and continue to practice a certain sin and still have God's blessing and still be saved.

These are lies. But they made money and preserved their reign. That's how the lies prospered in his hand.

The Papacy claimed to be God's true church. When the more Biblical Christians would not unite with them because of their blasphemy and idolatry, it threatened the authority of the Papacy, so they controlled the media to their advantage and said alot of bad things about the true Christians.

For instance, they said that John Huss actually claimed to be the 4th person of the Godhead. That was the official report. So when the Papacy condemned someone or a group of people as heretics or some dangerous cult, the people where deceived and where glad to be rid of the "dangerous cult".

They said the Waldensees where monsters, that their children where born with four rows of black teeth and a vestigial eye in the middle of their forehead. So the people justified the Papacies military force for destroying the Waldensees. The truth was the Waldensees practiced the Bible and the Papacy didn't. That challenged their authority.

That has to be what it means. But that's not what Kirk Cameron says, right?

QUOTE (dennis mann)
the RCC is like JUDAISM.........they emphasize the physical, and downplay the Spiritual.


Are you sure you really mean to say this? Judaism is something that God Himself gave to mankind to hold them over until Christ. Christ also taught the principles of Judaism. All of Christ's teachings come from the old testament. The only difference between Christianity and Judaism is the outward ordinances.

1. Instead of circumcision as an initiation rite, we have Baptism.

2. Instead of a sacrificial system and feast days, we have Communion.

3. Instead of a priesthood, we have Christ as our High Priest and His followers are all priests and kings.

4. Instead of stoning people to death, God traps people in strong delusion of false doctrine to preserve them for judgment.

Baptism and Communion are both "physical" or ceremonial things. They are more simple than the rites of Judaism, but more to be feared.

It is true that in Christianity, less emphasis is placed upon ceremonial ordinances, and more emphasis is on perfecting obedience to God's Holy Law, which is the law of love, the Ten Commandments.

But Catholicism is the mixing different Pagan religions with a rudimentary understanding of the outward trappings of Christianity. Man did that all by himself without even consulting God.
dennis mann
in OT times, JUDAISM was biblical...........no problem..........

the LAW OF MOSES = JUDAISM.............(with the animal sacrifices, sabbath day, sabbath year, jubilee, physical circumcision, don't eat pork, etc)

in NT times,,,,,,,,the LAW OF MOSES has vanished............Jesus nailed the LAW to the Cross,,,,,,,,,,,,JUDAISM is no longer practiced by Saints...............Saints are christians now (not JUDAISM JEWS)

read GALATIANS..........Paul said..........the JUDAIZERS are un-saved and accursed

JUDAIZERS required christians to practice the LAW OF MOSES (JUDAISM),,,,,,,,in NT times
happy2Bfree
QUOTE (dennis mann @ Aug 30 2008, 01:06 AM) *
thanks,

Freemasonry is called the "Craft" by Masons.

the RCC is like JUDAISM.........they emphasize the physical, and downplay the Spiritual.

Carnal people are drawn to the Physical.
Christians love the Spiritual things of God.


Dennis....

The RCC cannot even come close to being compared to Judaism.

With the RCC....you are certainly talking about idolatry...IMHO.

But with those in Judaism....they DO NOT do that. They are quite aware of false idol worship, and even have holidays where they repent for those in the past who did that.

God is the one that instructed the Jews to build certain things. And there are reasons for it. They do not worship these items. They do not pay homage to them.

The RCC does pays homage to Mary as well as "saints". This is akin to idol worship in my opinion because they actually PRAY to them.

THE JEWS DO NOT PRAY TO THE ITEMS THAT THEY HAVE CREATED. THEY PRAY TO GOD ONLY.
(I'm not shouting here...just to emphasize)
dennis mann
QUOTE (Chloé @ Sep 3 2008, 09:09 AM) *
QUOTE (dennis mann @ Aug 30 2008, 01:06 AM) *
thanks,

Freemasonry is called the "Craft" by Masons.

the RCC is like JUDAISM.........they emphasize the physical, and downplay the Spiritual.

Carnal people are drawn to the Physical.
Christians love the Spiritual things of God.


Dennis....

The RCC cannot even come close to being compared to Judaism.

With the RCC....you are certainly talking about idolatry...IMHO.

But with those in Judaism....they DO NOT do that. They are quite aware of false idol worship, and even have holidays where they repent for those in the past who did that.

God is the one that instructed the Jews to build certain things. And there are reasons for it. They do not worship these items. They do not pay homage to them.

The RCC does pays homage to Mary as well as "saints". This is akin to idol worship in my opinion because they actually PRAY to them.

THE JEWS DO NOT PRAY TO THE ITEMS THAT THEY HAVE CREATED. THEY PRAY TO GOD ONLY.
(I'm not shouting here...just to emphasize)


in Galatians,,,,,,,,,God (thru Paul) told us.......the JUDAIZERS are un-saved and accursed

in Revelations, God told us that there are some of His people within the RCC (Babylon the Great),,,,,and God told them "Come out of the RCC".

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.



in Romans, Paul said that non-Messianic Jews are un-saved.........Romans chapters 9 thru 11

all jews and gentiles must convert to christianity to be saved (in NT times)
rush4hire
QUOTE (MMark)
in Galatians,,,,,,,,,God (thru Paul) told us.......the JUDAIZERS are un-saved and accursed


At that time, Paul was saying that circumcision would be a denial of Christ. That doesn't mean that if you circumcise your children, you would be denying your faith. If you went and condemned a person for circumcising their child, you would not have Paul's support.

But here's the situation. The disciples of Christ, who have been with Jesus, and who had received the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, and by whom God had delegated to raise up the church of Christ, had come together and had decided by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, that gentiles should not be forced to get circumcised before they could be baptized and accepted into the flock of Christ. Those who opposed this decision where not doing it because they where zealous for God's law, but because they had a rebellious spirit and wanted their own authority to be heeded above the authority of the Apostles.

Gal. 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair show in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
Therefore, if the Galatians gave into the pressure of these rebels, they would be denying Christ because they would have been consenting to the rebellion and shaming the Apostles.

But at times, it was decided that it's better to circumcise and just make everyone happy than to cause unnecessary problems:

Acts 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.
Also the disciples never taught that Jewish Christians should stop circumcising their children:

Acts 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs.

21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them ... and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them...
So again, the whole issue was circumcision. Many times we see circumcision is not important, but what's important is keeping God's law, the Ten Commandments, in which is nothing about circumcision:

Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
But the term Judaizers or Judaize is not found in the Bible. This is Roman Catholic term:

QUOTE
"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, the Sabbath, but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day (Sunday) they shall especially honor, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ."
---Canon 29, Council of Laodicea, 364 C.E.


That is 100% Roman Catholic. It's not an idea supported in the Bible. If you agree to this law, then your God is the Pope.

If you condemn Sabbath keepers, then you condemn God's people from Adam and Eve, who met together with God on the day He Himself blessed as a memorial to His creation, to all of God's prophets, to the Apostles, to Christians in this day and age who still meet together and rest on the very same day the Creator rested on 6000 years ago.

What then if you curse the people of God?

Gen. 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee...

Num. 24:9 Blessed [is] he that blesseth thee, and cursed [is] he that curseth thee.
If you condemn God's people, you also condemn yourself and you are saying to God that you would rather be burned up like trash in the second resurrection than to meet with God each week. For all Creation will continue keeping the Sabbath holy for all eternity. If you don't want to share that experience with them, then you won't be there:

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
God can wink at ignorance, like those reformers who lived in a time when this knowledge was not brought to light as it is now. There are those today who are ignorant of the Sabbath, and they still love the Lord. If God shows them what they must do, then they will do it. If I show them, that's not the same thing as God showing them. When God shows people something, they can't deny it. I don't know what God is showing people, so I can't judge anyone.

I don't feel contempt, but only pity for those who miss the promised blessing, as you would feel pity for a poor starving homeless man.

Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:
58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].
This promise is valid today. You can cash in on it.

If the Sabbath is too much for you to handle, I won't judge you. I assume the best for you. I assume God has accepted you for Christ's sake. I won't despise you and count you for an enemy. I wish there was a way I could give you the aforementioned blessing.

But I would beg you... please do not such a foolish thing as to curse the Holy Nation of God. If you do that, then you are asking God to destroy you.

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
I tell you these things Dennis, because I really do care about you. I think your zeal for God is genuine and I believe you would give up anything for Christ. But it's hard for you to kick against the pricks.
dennis mann
rush4hire,

you've twisted the word of god, and my words

you've rejected the scripture

collossains 2;16
rush4hire
Aren't you the guy that kept abusing Col 2:16? And how many times have we exhausted this subject? Don't you realize by now, the annual feast days, established in Exodus, which demanded blood sacrifices, are not to be put in league with the Sabbath that was established at Creation, in a perfect, sinless paradise when man was one with his Maker, and that's why it was written in stone by the finger of God, and the feast days where not, and what more could God have done to show that it was permanent.

But now you say that those who keep the Ten Commandments are accursed? So you would also say those who break the Ten Commandments are blessed? Jesus never condemned anyone for anything less than breaking the Ten Commandments.

Col. 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.
There's no meat and drink offerings, or certain kinds of foods commanded for the Sabbath. This is obviously talking about annual feast days and holidays.

Lev. 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Lev. 23:13 And the meat offering thereof [shall be] two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD [for] a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof [shall be] of wine, the fourth [part] of an hin.
23:14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

Lev. 23:18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be [for] a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, [even] an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD.

Lev. 23:37 These [are] the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim [to be] holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:
Do you have any evidence that I, at any time, ever troubled anyone about these kinds of ordinances? When did I tell anyone they need to have meat and drink offerings on certain days of the year?

Have I failed to show an understanding that such offerings are types and shadows?

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Types and shadows. Annual feasts which required offerings. Simple to understand. There are also many prophecies that foretold an end of the sacrificial system, such as this one:

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox [is as if] he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, [as if] he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, [as if he offered] swine's blood; he that burneth incense, [as if] he blessed an idol.
It's not that any of this is hard to understand. But I can appreciate your need to justify yourself for choosing the congregation of the Sunday keepers over the congregation of Sabbath keepers. There's alot more people there and you will never be persecuted through the powers of the state, if you accept the religion that's backed by the state. I would respect you more if you could just admit that.

You can't say your motivation is zeal for your the law of your Creator, and therefore do you pay homage to the Sun God. The motivations clearly are such things as convenience, money, security, custom, fear, tradition, family, friends, pride, arrogance, stubbornness, lots of people, honor from men, the dream of some day meeting the Pope in person, etc. If it where not for these factors, you wouldn't see so much opposition to the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments. And you wouldn't see people saying things like "It's only the 9 commandments now!".
dennis mann
you've twisted the word of god and my words

the early christians worshipped, preached, prayed, took up offerings for the poor......on the first day of the week, sunday...........because they were not required to keep the law of moses ot saturday sabbath..........and the Christ-resurrection was on sunday am dawn

the first sermon of the christian church, acts 2 pentecost, preached by God himself,,,,,,,was on sunday, about 9 am

collossians 2;16.............you can't judge me concerning the keeping of the sabbath.............you're against the bible

the 10 commandments are part of the law of moses, which vanished 1900 years ago

some of the early christians were slaves,,,,,,,owned by non-christian slave-owners.............those slaves worked 7 days per week, because the slave-masters required it

there's no record anywhere that christians refused to do their slave-work on saturday or sunday........(no sabbath-martyrs)

God knew that many christians (world-wide) would be in all different cultures,,,,,,,,so, the christian has great advantages over the JUDAIZERS...............JUDAIZERS (supposedly) lose their salvation if they work on saturday...........but, christians can work 7 days per week (no problem)

as per the bible


you've rejected the bible and the messiah
rush4hire
QUOTE (dennis mann)
the 10 commandments are part of the law of moses, which vanished 1900 years ago


Are you sure about that?

-- Are you sure that it's OK to worship false gods?
-- to worship idols?
-- to take the Lord's name in vain?
-- to curse your mother and father?
-- to murder?
-- to commit adultery?
-- to steal?
-- to lie?
-- to covet?

We are supposed to do all of those things? If not, then which ones? Are you ever going to explain this to me, or are you going to just keep ignoring this question?

QUOTE (dennis mann)
some of the early Christians were slaves,,,,,,,owned by non-Christian slave-owners.............those slaves worked 7 days per week, because the slave-masters required it


Where's your evidence for this? Are you sure you are not just making this up? The word slave is not even in the New Testament. I don't think they had slavery at that time. Maybe bondservants, but that's service rendered to pay off a debt.

Even if there where slaves, if they where Christians, they would have had the day off on the Sabbath. It's not possible to force someone to work on the Sabbath. Neither is it possible to force someone to worship an idol. It has to be done of your own free will.

QUOTE (dennis mann)
God knew that many Christians (world-wide) would be in all different cultures,,,,,,,,so, the christian has great advantages over the JUDAIZERS


Ya, Christians who where willing to worship idols also had an advantage. Those who refused to worship idols where killed by the Romans. In Rome and Alexandria, apostasy prevailed because the faithful fled or where killed off.

Funny you should mention Christians going to different cultures. It was the early Christians that brought the Sabbath to all parts of the known world during the first few centuries of evangelism. The history books, that Rome was not able to destroy, clearly show us that all Christians kept the Sabbath, except at Rome and Alexandria where they kept Sunday to fit in with the sun worshipers.

Did you know Saint Patrick was a Sabbath-keeping Christian?
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/documentation/saint_patrick.asp

QUOTE
Josephus
"There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the Barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!" M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries on China and Japan" (edited by Dennys), Vol 4, Nos 7, 8, p.100.

"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to the purpose." "Dialogues on the Lord's Day," p. 189. London: 1701, By Dr. T.H. Morer (A Church of England divine).

"For although almost all churches throughout The World celebrated the sacred mysteries (the Lord's Supper) on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this." The footnote which accompanies the foregoing quotation explains the use of the word "Sabbath." It says: "That is, upon the Saturday. It should be observed, that Sunday is never called "the Sabbath' by the ancient Fathers and historians." Socrates, "Ecclesiastical History," Book 5, chap. 22, p. 289.

"The ancient Christians were very careful in the observance of Saturday, or the seventh day...It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival...Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assembles on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same." "Antiquities of the Christian Church," Vol.II Book XX, chap. 3, sec.1, 66. 1137,1138.


There are hundreds of quotes from history books:
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/history/sabbath_history1.asp

QUOTE (dennis mann)
christians can work 7 days per week (no problem)

Luke 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
...
23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
There is no command to stop doing this. We must assume they kept doing it and it was a part of every day life.

QUOTE (dennis mann)
the first sermon of the christian church, acts 2 pentecost, preached by God himself,,,,,,,was on sunday, about 9 am


As far as I know, God Himself has only spoken to a multitude 5 times, not including Adam and Eve: When He spoke the Ten Commandments, when He rebuked Miriam and Aaron, and 3 times with Jesus:

Num. 12:4 And the LORD spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.

Exo. 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
....
20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Matt. 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matt. 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, [saying], I have both glorified [it], and will glorify [it] again.


QUOTE (dennis mann)
there's no record anywhere that christians refused to do their slave-work on saturday or sunday........(no sabbath-martyrs)

There are records of the Inquisition killing "Judaizers". But records of such things are scarce. Why would Rome make records of something that indicated her church as the false church??

QUOTE
It was the policy of Rome to obliterate every trace of dissent from her doctrines or decrees. Everything heretical, whether persons or writings, she sought to destroy. Expressions of doubt, or questions as to the authority of papal dogmas, were enough to forfeit the life of rich or poor, high or low. Rome endeavored also to destroy every record of her cruelty toward dissenters. Papal councils decreed that books and writings containing such records should be committed to the flames. Before the invention of printing, books were few in number, and in a form not favorable for preservation; therefore there was little to prevent the Romanists from carrying out their purpose. {GC 61.2}



QUOTE (dennis mann)
the early christians worshipped, preached, prayed, took up offerings for the poor......on the first day of the week, sunday...........because they were not required to keep the law of moses ot saturday sabbath..........and the Christ-resurrection was on sunday am dawn


Christ was raised on the first day.
Pentecost was on the first day.

That's about all you have. What you don't have is God commanding to keep the first day of the week holy, like he commanded to keep the 7th day holy.

What we do have is the Bishop of Rome commanding the observance of Sunday and condemning the observance of the Sabbath.

Paul told people to set aside items to donate to the widow relief fund. He said to begin gathering those items, starting on the first day of the week so they would not be gathering when he came to collect, on whatever day that was. It's very clear that the day Paul came to gather the items was not the first day. Do you see this?

You also see Paul spending the whole day, the first day of the week, sailing to Assos:

Acts 20:11 ..and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
...
20:13 And we went before to ship, and sailed unto Assos, there intending to take in Paul: for so had he appointed, minding himself to go afoot.
If they where having church services on the first day, why is he spending the whole day, from sunrise, traveling?
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