Five times the bible set the time of the great tribulation at 3 1/2
years which also is the time of the reign of the beast and the false prophet:
1 in Daniel 7:25;...time and times and the dividing of time. 2 Daniel 12:7
"times,times,and an half." 3 Revelation 11:2...and the holy city shall they
tread under foot for forty and two months. 4 Revelation 11:3...and they
(two witnesses),shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threee score
days (1260 days), and 5 Revelation 13:5 "power was given unto him to
continue forty and two month (3 1/2 years)."

Most theologians and writers ignore all the scriptures that set a 3 1/2
years times limit on the reign of the anti-Christ and the beast (which is
the time of the great tribulations). They all say there will be seven years
of tribulation;and they all use the 9th chapter of Daniel to try to prove it.
It is also said by them that the ant-Christ is going to make a covenant
with the jews for the one week (7years), and in the middle of the week
(after 3 1/2 years), he is going to break the covenant, and stop the jews
from sacrificing animals and pollute the sanctury. then they go on to say
that at the end of the week (7years), the Lord is going to come and pour
out his wrath upon this destroyer.

These scripture lets us know that the great tribulation will not start
until the abomination (false prophet) gets there. The four other scripture
we named earlier says he will only stay for 3 1/2years. The 9th chapter
of Daniel is not talking about the false prophet, neither is it talking about
the same time. Part of that scripture has already been fulfilled,even down
to destruction (consumption) of jerusalem and that which was detemined
has already been poured out upon the jews, which are the desolate and
not the desolator. It is awfully strange that people with great understand-
ing of words do not know the different between the words make,and
confirm "the covenant" with many for one week, not make a covenant
with many. The desolate is one who is being destroyed, and the desolator
is the one who is doing the destroying. When prople make a covenant
they are re-establishing an agreement that has already been made in the
past.

Daniel 9:27 reads:
'And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.'

It is mis-understood, it is mis-taught.

The 'he' of 'he shall confirm' speaks of Christ, NOT antichrist.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week - Christs ministry was to be for one week or seven years.

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate - What did Christ say, 'behold, your house is left unto you desolate.'; and the curtain rent - Just exactly WHO made Jerusalem desolate? The antichrist? Not by a long shot, it was Christ who left thier house desolate.

Now, we all know that Christ was cut-off in the midst of his week of covenant confirming, he was killed upon the cross just 3.5 years into his week.

This leaves 3.5 years of his covenant confirming yet in the future.

Jesus even told us this when he quoted Isaiah, 'The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,' for this is what he was sent to do for his first 3.5 year ministry - proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, he did.

But there are 3.5 years of ministry he has yet to fulfill for if you read the next verse in Isaiah you hear this: 'and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.'

And surely he will accomplish this testimony during the Great Tribulation, the hour of temptation that comes upon all the world, in the two witnesses.

They are the ones in whom will be the fullness of the power of God in Christ in them as a witness to ALL THE WORLD that he and he alone is God.

And I believe also that the very structure of the scriptures in Isaiah show this very clearly. There are three verses, Isaiah 61:1,2,&3.

'The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.'

Where Christ stopped splits these in half - right in the middle of verse two - just like his ministry was split in half and will continue when the two witnesses receive power from on high.

Oh, and another thing to make everyone angry with me...

The feet and toes, partly of iron and partly of clay, they are Judaism and Christianity. The two are now joining forces but they are diametrically opposed, they CANNOT be mixed, but there they are, partly iron, partly clay, all mingled together trying to form a FOUNDATION.

They are playing nice together right now but when you see the Sanhedrin in absolute power beheadding people for disobeying the Noachide laws, or violating Sabbath - after the next terrible world war - you shall then know that you have been snared by the strong delusion.

I always wondered why Jesus, our Lord and God, would say, 'pray that your flight be not on the sabbath...'. It can only be that Sabbath worship according to the book of the law will be in force and for one to take filght on that day would mean cetain death for violating Sabbath. No, it will not be Sunday law, it will be THE sabbath, thier sabbath, Saturday ans the Lord would not have spoken of another.

Thats pretty good. Matthew ch24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day.
Notice he spoke about the winter, cause at that time it going to be the time to flee, and cold and snow can
be hard to deal with, then the sabbath day, and the people, and crowds. Cause notice Verse 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! He talking about people getting out of there.

When the Lord sends His prophets to shut down the world there will be 1335 days to the return of Christ. The great tribulation will only be for 1260 days then the rain and moister and clouds of heaven will return to the earth. Those of the camps of the devil who have survived to the end of the great tribulation will not recover from the great tribulation before the Lord and His army of saints come and throw the lake of fire down on their heads at day 1335.


.

Pray not that your flight be in the winter as that would mean you are taken out of season. Don't fall for the deception of the fake Christ. Wait for the true Saviour.

On the Sabbath one was only allowed to walk for a short distance so when the end comes you don't want to be in Jerusalem....the epicenter of hailstones!

A watchman watched from the top of his house. When the end comes no one would have time to take anything....same with being in the field, which is where He wants us to be....watching and working for Him.

Woe unto them that are with child meaning....they fell into idolatry/adultery with the fake Christ and didn't wait for the true Christ. Giving suck means helping Satan's false religion.


It all has to do with staying alert, warning others, knowing the fake comes first and waiting for our true Saviour.

Matthew 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day."

This flight is you fleeing out of Judaea, and this flight is in reference to being harvested out of season. You harvest in summer and the fall, not the winter. Do you even know when the season is? Jesus said, ye fools, ye can look at the bank in the sky, and tell the signs of the weather, but you don't know by reading my Word, the signs of my coming.

Why not on the Sabbath? Because on the Sabbath, the only distance that you could travel was just short of one mile. This is not far enough, for Armageddon will take place on Mount Zion, for "Megiddo" means "the gathering place of the crowd, and that will be where the Antichrist rules from, and that is where the destruction will be.

Thats pretty good, because this is taking place in zion and people are fleeing to the place of safety.
Matthew 24::16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes

Lets read a little piece of the place of safety.(The Wilderness)
Isaiah ch35:The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. 35:2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.
6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert. Reminding you, you flee as soon as you see the anti-christ get in the temple

amen

Brother tan

most christians don't even consider that the place of safety during this tribulation period is on the earth and the Lord refers to it as a wilderness.

good topic and excellent posts from everyone.

When I read the above, these two scriptures came to mind, in this order:

Matthew 27:51
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Genesis 15:17
And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

The above are things being divided in two, like the one who makes the temple worship desolate in the middle of the covenant confirmation.

Does Jesus not reserve the power to make things desolate to himself?

I appreciate the simplicity of this entire thread.

May the Lord give his people wisdom and humble our pride.

In Him,

Mike

Give me some scriptures on this 1335 days, how you come up with that number. The Lord is coming with more than just the saints, Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

I like reading this part about the tribulation, I try to picture this in my mind...lets go to Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Lets go in revelation 6 and read it again...12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Now this is a time for repenting, but in stead look at what these people, verse:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; maybe its to late to repent at this time.

Lets look at it in Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

The prophets even wrote about the coming of the lord, so much for new testiment christian, right.

The kings of the earth and their armies will fight against the Lord and His army. Now we should understand why Joel stated, “Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near.” They will draw near and be slaughtered by the millions. Let’s bring the Lord into the picture, take note!

For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord. (Isaiah 66:15-17)

Isaiah states, “The Lord will come with fire to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.” Yes, even those that think the Lord’s dietary law was nailed to the cross will reap His fury. Just in case one might think this isn’t the Lord Jesus, let’s go to New Testament and see this same scene.

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9)

Remember in Isaiah 66 were it was stated, “The Lord will come with fire to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire”? Above Paul states, “the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Here we see that Paul quoted Isaiah. So, we see the Lord will take vengeance on all those that are not obeying His commandments therefore the slain of the Lord shall be many. So much for the Law is no more! Keep His law or you will number with these that are disobedient.

There are some good points here but some things are important. It is TRUE that great tribulation is 3 1/2 years and that is the time when the beast reigns to persecute the saints, however before that period is a period that is tribulation of 3 1/2 years where the beast is not speaking against the most high and activley overall killing the saints. Overall it is 7 years of tribulation, only half of that being Great trib.

The way we see this is by looking at all of these 3 1/2 time periods in the word of God and seeing all of their types and examples to understand their purposes. For instance in rev 12 we see an example of a woman going into the wilderness and being fed there by her child that she bore that satan wants to devour at birth. When we look at the wilderness scriptures we see that there are many examples but the largest and easiest to see are the israelites in the wilderness and Jesus in the wilderness with joseph and mary at his birth.

In all of these situations we see that in the actual wilderness there was NO BEAST and NO PERSECUTION. So this time, times and half a time is a 3 1/2 yrs that is not the same as the other half. This was a time to seperate His people from the world, to make them flee all worldly systems to learn to obey and walk in faith in God only. This was a time when they were driven out by a beast system but the beast system was not able to travel to that place of wilderness with them and there was no paying attention to that system while in the wilderness, but instead the concentration is soley put on God. When we look at the prophesies about being in the wilderness that are in Isaiah we see that God uses that time in the wilderness to make us fruitful and abundant, to strip us perminatly of the world and sepeate us in all things from the world.

We see types of this also larlgey with elijah who was in the wilderness for 3 1/2 years and was safe and was fed by God of ravens. We see it also in Jesus ministry which also was 3 1/2 years. During that time Jesus ministered and raised up fruit but those who hated him could not persecute or lay any hold on him until the end of that 3 1/2 years.

The second half which is great trib is what the daniel scripture is speaking of, it is the time when the saints will be trampled under foot, when the beast will speak against the most high, when persecution raises and we see this example after jesus' 3 1/2 years- then persecution began and the killing of the saints and the governments speaking against the name of Christ etc..

Thank you for this thread, I find it very interesting.
One thing because of a dream I had not so long ago, I have thought on before which is touched on here is this verse.




eating swine's flesh, and the abomination and the mouse. The eating of these 3 things? The abomination is something that is eaten? But obviously not swine which I know a few hold to be the abomination spoken of, it can't be as it is listed seperately and I don't doubt it is deliberately listed so. I also do not doubt that God knows where our confusions will lay in this period of time and if we listen we can have the cloud lifted from our eyes.

Yeah, that scripture says a lot, cause it brings satan in the picture, it bring swine in the picture, it also bring the
the mouse, which that all are an abomination to us.

Bro,tan,

I would to clarify that the place-of-safety is Mount Zion in Jerusalem as the prophets have stated.

Joel 2: 32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

The instructions to flee Judea is not away from Jerusalem, but rather to the safety of the Mountains that Jersalem is built upon.

The two witnesses will in Jerusalem.

Rev 11: 8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

There will be worshipers in Jerusalem.

Revelation 11
1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

And the 144,000 will be in Jerusalem.

Rev 14: 1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

How do you think these people (Christian) will survive the GT in Jerusalem unless they are divinely protected?


In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Guy Smith,

Do you have any scripture references where God refers to Jerusalem as "Sodom" or "Egypt," which I've always seen in the scriptures to be a type of the world, not God's people?

Thanks.

In Christ,

Mike

Revelation 8 reads:

And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified

This can be none other than Jerusalem because of the 'where also our Lord was crucified' part. That's very specific, is it not?

Where was our Lord crucified?

What streets did he carry his cross on?

It can be no other place, and look what is mentioned in the same: 'which spiritually is called Sodom and Eqypt'.

Jerusalem was left desolate, and the curtain rent in twain.

DESOLATE!!!

Spiritually wicked.

Consider this:
I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, [there was] no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger.

This can be none other than the end, when Jesus comes to recompense his enemies in flaming fire.

And when he says, 'I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger', he is referring to the land of Israel, is he not? So where does he see utter destruction FROM THE LORD?

The fruitful place... Israel and Jerusalem.

Jerusalem which is ABOVE is free and is the Holy City.

The Holy City is where God dwells and that is in New Jerusalem which will descend from the Heavens.

jer


it wasnt jerusalem where the Lord was crucified, it was without the gate not within the city so the place where He was crucified was the world- outside of the city of God. the whole world is sodom and egypt

Hbr 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.


Hbr 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Hbr 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.


Hbr 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

"it wasnt jerusalem where the Lord was crucified, it was without the gate not within the city so the place where He was crucified was the world- outside of the city of God. the whole world is sodom and egypt"

>This is a narrow proprietary view that has been suggested by those who wish to extract national Israel from the nation's placement in Revelation chapters 11 and 12, and many other related scriptures in the Bible. There is no truth to it whatsoever. It is a hair splitting ruse designed for the purpose of upholding replacement theological doctrine. Jerusalem is where the Lord was crucified according to the scriptures. The "whole world" is not in view in these passages at all. Jerusalem, Israel, and the surrounding hations of the Middle East are the focus and at the core center of all visionary prophecy recorded in scripture. If one wants to understand the visions correctly, one must know this fact. The 70th week of the 70 weeks of years decreed for national Israel, Daniel's people [not the Church], is a future view of how the Lord is going to deal specifically with that nation at the time of the end. The period is the Day of the Lord and it will include His 7 years of tribulation judgments against human intransigence and unbelief, His subsequent 1,000 year millennial reign of mortals on the earth with His capital at Jerusalem, and then eternity for which He will create new heavens and a new earth. There will also be a new Jerusalem placed on the earth at the time. This city is an eternal city and it belongs to the Lord. All other cities of the nations, their governments, and rule will cease to exist.

Hey Bro.
Lets go in Daniel 9, and see if we can get 7 years of tribulation.

Now, let us go to the 9th chapter of Daniel and see what it is talking about.
When you read this chapter, you will find in the second versse that the prophet
Daniel was reading the books of the prophet Jeremiah. Daniel understood
through Jeremiah's writing that the lord would accomplish seventy years in the
desolation of Jerusalem.Daniel knew that Jerusalem was going to be laid to waste
for more that seventy years. So he prayed to the Lord for understanding. While
he was praying, the Lord sent the angel, Gabriel, to explain to Daniel what he
wanted to know as well as many other things, including: the first coming of Jesus,
the time of his ministry,his death for the sins of the people, and the destruction of
Jerusalem and its people by the Roman general, Titus, in 70 A.D. Except for the
last 3 1/2 years that Jesus must teach, the prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. Now,
let us break this down verse by verse, starting at the 24th Verse, and let the Bible
interpret this prophecy.

Daniel 9:24-27.(Verse 24) "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and
upon the holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to
make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to
sealup the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." (Verse 25) "Know
therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore
and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the prince shall be seven weeks, and
threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in
troublous times: (Verse 26). "And after threescore and two weeks shall the Messiah
be cut off, but for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy
the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end
of the war desolations are determined." (Verse 27) "And he shall confirm the covenant
with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and
the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,
even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Now in verse 24, Gabriel informed Daniel that seventy weeks are determined upon
his people. That put the time far beyond seventy literal years. To be more accurate,
he talking about seventy times seventy years, which is equal to 490 years (7x70=490
years). Within this period of time, the temple had to be rebuilt, Jesus had to be anointed
(anoint the most Holy), then he had to die for the sin of the people (make reconciliation
for iniquity) and seal the vision and the prophesy. What vision you ask? The one concrning
the people and the city of Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:25 tells us that from the time that the commandments is given to restore and
rebuild Jerusalem unto the Messiah the prince (to the anointing of Jesus), shall be seven
weeks, threescore and two weeks (69 weeks = 483 years). The restoration of the temple
and the city of Jerusalem started in the days of Ezra and Nehemiah. It took them forty and
six years to build the Temple. (st,John 2:20) "Then said the Jews, forty and six years was
this building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" Take into consideration that the city
had to be restored also, to which we can attribute the other three years which make up a
full week of years (7x7 = 49 years). In verse 26, this week of years was not counted, because
it said, "After threescore and two weeks the Messiah was cut , (62 weeks = 434 years).
Add the seven weeks back on to this 62 weeks (434 + 49 = 483 years), and will get the
amount of time that had to pass between the commandments to restore Jerusalem to the
anointing of Jesus (Messiah means the anointed one).

Now that we understand that it took 69 weeks to bring us to the Messiah, there is only
one week left. Now this is where the error is made by most theologians and Bible scholars:
They all say there is one week left (1x7 = 7 years), and this is the week that the false prophet
is going to make a covenant with the Jews and, in the middle of the week, break the covenant,
and stop them from sacrificing animals.

Please answer these three questions: (1) At what point did these scriptures stop talking
about the Jews, Jerusalem, and Jesus? (2) In what area or verse did the scriptures start talking
about the beast, or the false prophet? (3) What did Jesus do when he was anointed? Did he die
the very same day? NO, Jesus did not die the very same day. He had to teach for three and a
half years and then be cut off (killed) so that this very prophecy would be fulfilled.

Look closely at what we read in Daniel 9:26. First, it said the Messiah shall be cut off and
then the people of the prince shall come and destroy the city and sanctuary. Who is the prince?
Satan the Devil. Paul called him the prince of the power of the air. See Ephesians 2:2. "wherein
in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power
of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."

I very much agree with what you are saying. The world crucified him, the "great city" is Babylon, not the holy city of Jerusalem.

If the 'world' killed Christ then Stephen gave his life for a lie when he accused those he was speaking to of killing the Lord; and he was not speaking to the world.

Was it the world who begged Ceasar to cricufy him?

Was it the world who went throughout the crowd of people in Jerusalem to get Ceaser to crucify him?

No, it was his friends, those of his own house and not the 'world'.

And where is Zion? Is it Jerusalem of this world?

No, Zion is the City of David, which is Bethlehem; not Jerusalem; Someone is lying to you.

Where is Zion? - II Samuel 2: Nevertheless David took the strong hold of Zion: the same [is] the city of David.

Is Jerusalem the city of David and Zion? - I Kings 8: Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel, unto king Solomon in Jerusalem, that they might bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD out of the city of David, which [is] Zion.

No it is not possible to bring the ark up to Jerusalem out of the City of David if they are the same thing; it's impossible that the city of David is Jerusalem.

So where is the city of David and Zion? - Luke 2: And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem.

The city of David = Zion = Bethlehem.

Bethlehem is Zion and the city of David - not Jerusalem.

Someone is lying to you that Zion is Jerusalem for it was Bethlehem, it was where a Great King was born.

Zion is Jerusalem which is ABOVE.

------ STRONG DELUSION!!!

Will you too fall back into the law of sacrifices contained in ordinances, do you not hear the law, how that a man that does those things shall live by them. Do you not know that sin has taken control of the law so that we cannot do the things we would? Do you not know that the Lord is sick of those things?

Do you not know that God has divorced Israel after the flesh because of fornication and had married another? Moses who represented the law DID NOT GET TO SEE THE PROMISED LAND!

Do you not know that the testament died with the testator?

I will place this here once more and in big bold letters so you can all read it over and over again until you get it: The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him [shall] the gathering of the people [be].

Shiloh has come!!! The people have been gathered unto him: Acts: and there were devout men, Jews, out of EVERY NATION UNDER HEAVEN... and there were added that day three-thousand souls to the number.

Since Shiloh has come then the sceptre is PASSED from Judah to Christ and Judah is no longer the lawgiver...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shiloh, Christ, is. Is God going to take the sceptre from Christ and give it back to fleshly Israel who in all thier history were not worthy of it?

God has extended his hand already the second time to recover his people and he did that in Christ.

Who, really, is behind the 'Israel' we now see and who is making all the world crazy???

"Now that we understand that it took 69 weeks to bring us to the Messiah, there is only
one week left. Now this is where the error is made by most theologians and Bible scholars:
They all say there is one week left (1x7 = 7 years), and this is the week that the false prophet
is going to make a covenant with the Jews and, in the middle of the week, break the covenant,
and stop them from sacrificing animals."

>There is on week to finish of the covenant of the 70 weeks of years determined for national Israel. This is a fact as the vision states. It is the Lord .... the "cut off one" .... Israel's Messiah, who will confirm this covenant presented in the context of Daniel 9 by executing the 70th week .... make it happen. The 6 objectives for a believing remnant part of the nation will be reached by the Lord. This confirmation is not made by the other prince. Only the Lord can do this. The other prince and his followers will come and desolate Jerusalem and the temple mount at midweek. This invasion will disrupt Israelite worship, kill 2/3 rds of those living in the nation, and cause the fleeing of the believing remnant into the eastern wilderness. The other prince and his followers will then occupy and rule over the land of Israel for 42 months [last 1,260 days of the 2,520 day period].

Good point.

We can see types and patterns. Jesus himself prophesied for 3.5 years before claiming his kingdom when the children called Him Hosanna on Palm Sunday.

The first half of Jacob's trouble is dominated by God's prophets while satan is countering with the flatteries and smooth words of his a/c and false prophet. These will be tribulational times where things are not good, but it is not God's wrath.

That follows when the people combine together in joy to kill God's prophets, support satan via a/c, abomination of desolation occurs and then wrath for 3.5 years.

Of course, just like Jesus, the prophets are like wheat seeds and unless they fall unto the ground and die they can not seed the ground with light and final harvest.

3.5 days later, they will arise from the dead, the rapture will occur and utter darkness will then cover the land.
This is the time of God's wrath. But because of the death, many will see their ressurrection and a glimpse of light will remain in the darkness, even though the restrainer, Michael the Archangel will no longer tail satan to and fro and restrain him from his most diabolical acts.

Indeed, the Archangel will be out in the desert protecting the remnant and this will be his sole job. So the one who restrains, the Prince of princes, will have a new unique job. Thus those who will come to faith will then be under heavy persecution even unto death apart from the remnant in the desert.

satan will get his 3.5 years of worship as many will take the mark of the beast to lessen the pain inflicted by the demonic army that is released from the pit that stings until people cry for death but don't recieve it.

Nonetheless, many will not take the mark, will be martryed and accounted with the righteous as all the mystery will then be fully revealed. It will be a dark day.

So: in summation:

First half of Tribulation will be increased birthing pains, many inflicted by God's prophets for self preservation which will lead many to righteousness after they die and are brought back to life by God's harpazo power.

There seed will then sprout into fruit as there will be no more questions as to who they were. There actions will be confused and frustrated by satan before that as he will sow to the flesh while they will be sowing to the spirit to bring 144,000 virgins to knowledge of Jesus Christ for the 3.5 year desert experience leadership roles over 6 million or so Jewish proselytes.

All of the tribulation period will be "great" [terrible] for those who dwell upon the earth

The Lord does not differentiate with His statement about the time frame

All 7 years [2,520 days] + 30 days

Interesting words,,,lets see how great {terrible} this will be for people....

Revelation 9:4 "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

God will not allow any physical damage to any part of the earth. Not the grass, trees, or any physical matter you can think of. This is a spiritual warfare, and it is a battle for the minds of men and the commitment of their souls to him. God is very specific as to what they can do. Their targets are only the people; The "Anthropos" in the Greek, the individuals of man, not any animal, and only those "that have not the seal of God in their foreheads".

What is in your forehead????????It's your brain,,,,,,,, of course. As we saw in earlier chapters, the "seal of God", is "knowledge" that is contained in His Word, the Scriptures. God want all of His children to know what He intends to do, and it is because of this that John was brought to the "Day of the Lord" by Jesus, and told to write it down. God has also given us many prophets, and the writings of His Apostles in the New Testament. There is nothing that is going to happen that God has not told us in His plan.....

That pretty much says it all.

It is all deception. The wrath comes after that....when Christ arrives. But, the wrath is reserved for those that take the mark of the beast.

Check this out brother & sisters

Great Tribulation Lesson

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4...18352&hl=en

Soon and very soon (as the song goes) the world will cease to exist, as we know it. The entire Bible points to this time, when Jesus will return and reign gloriously on the earth. His apostles asked, and Jesus gave them numerous signs leading up to the end. He warned us of: wars and rumors of wars, famines, pestilence (diseases) and earthquakes all over the world (read Matthew 24:3-7) We see all these signs coming to pass. However, Jesus gave one notable sign, which we still await. "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place..." (Matthew 24:15) This is the most important sign of them all. This was so important, Jesus concluded by saying whoever reads about it let him understand. Yet, many people have been lured to sleep by Satan and don't have a clue, to what Jesus is speaking of.

This atrocious act will start the worse period the world has ever seen, the Great Tribulation. This act is simply put, a religious leader (the abomination) moving to God's temple (Holy Place) in Jerusalem. Presently, there is not a temple on the site where God designated Solomon to build the first one. There are however, plans for this structure. Once the temple is built a so-called holy man will move in. The end cannot come until this takes place and the events will last for three and a half years. So the previous statement made that the world will end soon is meant within the limits of God's signs. Jesus cannot return any day as many proclaim. Paul echoes this when writing about this important sign. He states, "let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition." (II Thessalonians 2:3) Perdition means to destroy (desolation), which is what this wicked man will do to all of those who fail to worship him. "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." (II Thessalonians 2:4) Beware!