The reason I ask this is, there are people in my family that I would call a non-believer. Not necessarily that they don't believe, but they have not accepted Christ into their lives. I was trying to find information in the Bible about these type of people, what happens to them, do they get a second chance to change their hearts? I always understood that if one died today and had not excepted Christ into their lives, then they would have NO second chance. But those who go through the Tribulation would?

I just pray for them and hope they change their hearts.

If you have an answer to this, please explain it or let me know where it is in the Bible because I can't find it.

Thanks.

God Bless.

We will all go through the tribulation....all of us. It is one of great deception when Satan will pretend to be Christ and the world will follow him, all except His elect.


There is a variety of opinion on the fate of those that have not accepted Christ. I am of the opinion that because of all the false religion there are many, even Christians, that haven't had a true first chance. Certainly those of Islam, Buddism, etc. have never had the possibility of finding Christ.


I believe scripture tells us that they will be taught during the millennium without any influence from Satan but will be tested at the end of that time and that will be the final test!


I don't have time to find and list the scriptures tonight but let me know if you are still interested and I should be able to tomorrow.

I will be praying for your family member... I could say a lot but I'd get stones thrown at me... I guess i'm not one of your 'average' doctrine believers... but it's all Biblical... just don't want to get into it. I know all will be well. Pray and ask God to show you the Truth.

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/reincarnation.htm

Reincarnation: Does It Exist?
Dan Corner


[Permission is granted to duplicate this article in its entirety,
but only without additions, alterations or omissions of any kind,
including the ministry name and website at the end.]
The only way that we can correctly answer this question is to consult the only source inspired by God. That source is the Bible, the proven word of the living God. No other book is the proven word of God, though such claims have been made about the following: Book of Mormon, Quran (Koran), Bhagavad-Gita, Avesta, Angas, etc.

The Bible is proven as the word of God by the fulfillment of Bible prophesies. It is mathametically impossible for all of these prophesies to have just happened by chance. This proves that the people that wrote the Bible were inspired by God, for only God could accurately foretell the future, in detail 100% of the time, and at the same time encourage mankind to obey Him. So what does the Biblical record reveal?

Heb. 9:27 reads:

"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment."
That clearly proves there is no reincarnation after our death for we will die only once. But there are other clear passages that prove the same:
"For when a few years are finished, I shall go the way of no return." (Job 16:22 NKJV)
"He remembered that they were but flesh, a passing breeze that does not return" (Psa. 78:39, NIV).
Resurrection, Not Reincarnation
The Bible teaches a resurrection not a reincarnation like the Hindus, New Agers and many others wrongly believe:
"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2, NIV).
"For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth; And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God" (Job 19:25,26, NKJV).
"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned" (John 5:28,29, NIV).
"But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets. I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust. This being so, I myself always strive to have a conscience without offense toward God and men" (Acts 24:14-16, NKJV).
"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil" (Rom. 2:7-9, NIV).
This life now is often referred to in the Scriptures with the following phrase, "the land of the living":
"Man does not know its [wisdom's] value, Nor is it found in the land of the living" (Job 28:13, NKJV).
"I cried out to You, O LORD: I said, "You are my refuge, My portion in the land of the living" (Psa. 142:5, NKJV).
Many others verses describe this life now in the same way (Psa. 27:13; 52:5; 116:9; Isa. 38:11; etc.).

What Happens At Death?
What will happen to you at the point of your physical death? How is this event described in the Bible; and most importantly, how can you prepare to meet God?
"The way of all the earth" is a phrase used in Scripture referring to physical death. It, thereby, suggests that we will all die:

"Now I am about to go the way of all the earth. You know with all your heart and soul that not one of all the good promises the LORD your God gave you has failed. Every promise has been fulfilled; not one has failed" (Joshua 23:14, NIV).
"I am about to go the way of all the earth," he said. "So be strong, show yourself a man" (1 Kings 2:2, NIV).
The Spirit Departs At Death
The point of physical death is know as a "departure" (Lk. 9:31; 2 Tim. 4:6; 2 Pet. 1:15). That is, it is the point in time that one's spirit departs from their physical body:
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:26, NKJV).
When the Lord Jesus raised a girl from the dead, her spirit returned to her physical body:
"And they ridiculed Him, knowing that she was dead. But He put them all outside, took her by the hand and called, saying, 'Little girl, arise.' Then her spirit returned, and she arose immediately" (Lk. 8:53-55, NKJV).
The Apostles Paul and Peter wrote of their own departure:
"For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith" (2 Tim. 4:6,7, NKJV).
"And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things" (2 Pet. 1:15, NIV).
Our own departure is one year closer now than it was this same time last year. Death is like taking a trip. For the righteous, we will go home to be with the Lord:
"Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad" (2 Cor. 5:6-10).
So our spirit departs to go home to be with the Lord, that is, if we are a Christian at death.
On the other hand, to die is loss for ALL Biblically unsaved people! It is only "gain" and "better by far" (Phil. 1:21-23) for those who are living for Christ. If this doesn't describe you, change now while you still have opportunity. Turn from your sins and trust in Jesus 100% for your soul's salvation (Acts 20:21; 26:20).

I've heard people say of a person who suffered much because of a physical ailment before their death that "They are better off now." But this is true only if they were saved at the point of their death! If they weren't, they are in a worse condition in eternal fire!


Man's Life Now
Mankind in general, according to Scripture, is described in the following way:
"Man born of woman is of few days and full of trouble. He springs up like a flower and withers away; like a fleeting shadow, he does not endure" (Job 14:1,2, NIV).
"For, 'All men are LIKE GRASS, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord stands forever.' And this is the word that was preached to you. Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind" (1 Pet. 1:24-2:1, NIV).
"If God places no trust in his servants, if he charges his angels with error, how much more those who live in houses of clay, whose foundations are in the dust, who are crushed more readily than a moth!" (Job 4:18,19, NIV).
"Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?" (Isa. 2:22, NIV).
Friend, one day you too will pass from "the land of the living" and go the "way of all the earth." After that there will be no reincarnation for you. Your soul and spirit, at the point of your physical death, will go either into the presence of God or into a place of punishment and pain depending upon your spiritual condition at that point in time. In the future, your body will arise to be thrown into the lake of fire (Mt. 13:41,42; Rev. 20:11-15) or be reunited with your spirit in the kingdom of God (1 Thess. 4:16,17; 1 Cor. 15:51-57 cf. Jn. 5:28,29)

A Tunnel Experience?
Also, please know that after physical death there is NO MENTION in the Bible of anyone GOING THROUGH A DARK TUNNEL, with a bright light on the other end and the sensation of great peace and love in the presence of this light. The problem with this type of experience is atheists and other non-Christians testified to this type of experience, which clearly conflicts with the Word of God, the ONLY reliable source to consult to know the truth about what happens after death. The Scriptures DO NOT TESTIFY to a universal salvation for everyone, so don't believe it. In fact, Jesus taught most will go to Hell:

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it" (Mt. 7:13,14).
Jesus Christ, Our Only Hope
The only hope you have beyond the grave to find peace, joy and contentment in eternity is found in Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12; John 14:6 cf. Rom. 2:7; Isa. 35:10; Rev. 21:4; etc.). Prepare for your own eternity by becoming a Bible defined Christian today. Read and study the New Testament for yourself, so you won't be deceived by some sincere, well-meaning false teacher, who might even misuse the Bible! Remember, it is only a trusting, submitting and enduring faith in Jesus that will get one an entrance into the kingdom of God.

"And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever" (1 John 2:17, NKJV).
"But He answered and said to them, 'My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it'" (Lk. 8:21, NKJV).
"On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Rev. 21:25-27).
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers" (Gal. 6:7-10).
For more information about salvation, click here.


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the un-believer has many chances to get saved from their sins.

today, tomorrow, the next day............70 years is enough time to do the right thing

Like I said on the other post... my son didn't have today, tomorrow, or 70 years... he was an infant and had no knowledge at all. What happens to him?

there is no such thing as a second chance. that's not in the bible.

what we have is the grace, mercy and long suffering of God

Ex 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

Num 14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

Ps 86:15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

Jer 15:15 O LORD, thou knowest: remember me, and visit me, and revenge me of my persecutors; take me not away in thy longsuffering: know that for thy sake I have suffered rebuke.

they all have chances to repent as they are alive.

Eccl 9v1: For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.
2: All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

3: This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
4: For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6: Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

7: Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
8: Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.

Ezek 18v20: The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

21: But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22: All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23: Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

Jesus is the Judge

if you get to Judgement Day,,,,,,,and you see that Jesus is NOT loving, fair, just, humble, right, merciful, ..........then you'll know that He lied to us in the Bible

but the Bible is True

if i break a law (i assault someone).........and the Judge (an earthly judge) under-punishes (or over-punishes) me,,,,,,,,that's not love and righteousness
that Judge should punish me with an appropriate , reasonable level of punishment.


an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth............sounds harsh?,,,,,,,,,,no, it's loving and right,,,,,,,,,,God gave Israel this principle to teach us..........the punishment must fit the crime,,,,,,don't over-punish,,,,,,,don't under-punish

as far as the GT is concerned

Rv 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


Rv 1213: And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16: And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

if a person has no regard for God and his Word, he cannot be a saint so they all will go through the GT and maybe they will become one then.

. Forget it, not worth the typing.

Argumentative.. you can all crucify me over at Voice's thread of Ultimate Reconciliation on the Bible Prophecy section. My goodness, what one won't do to prove that he knows everything!

sister rose

my post has nothing to do with your posts. I did not know that you had something to say concerning this topic..

The Word of God gives us an account of David’s infant son dying (2 Samuel 12:23).

There, David makes the claim that he will join his son after death – and David was a strong believer who did rest in God for his salvation (Psalm 62:7)

Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (Genesis 18:25)

May this bring comfort to your soul.

There’s no Biblical support for the term, "second chance for non-believers. Here is why I say this....it would mean that they were called during their time and rejected it, or called accept it at first but fall away.

The truth though is the vast majority of humanity both those who have died and those alive now, who does not believe are not being called to acept Jesus....this is not their day of salvation. There day of salvation will come when Jesus returns to set up His kingdom on the earth. Those who are dead, will be raised back from the dead and given their first and only time to repent.

Those who are called now will rule with Jesus in His kingdom and will be given ruler ship over nations, a kingdom, cities, city and so forth according to how much they have used the talents that was given to them before they were glorified.

Luke 19:12-19 (ASV)
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country, to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called ten servants of his, and gave them ten pounds, and said unto them, Trade ye herewith till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent an ambassage after him, saying, We will not that this man reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, when he was come back again, having received the kingdom, that he commanded these servants, unto whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know what they had gained by trading.
16 And the first came before him, saying, Lord, thy pound hath made ten pounds more.
17 And he said unto him, Well done, thou good servant: because thou wast found faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 18 And the second came, saying, Thy pound, Lord, hath made five pounds.
19 And he said unto him also, Be thou also over five cities.

David will be king over the House of Israel and the twelve disciples, each of them will be a king over a tribe of Israel.


1Cronicles 28: 4 – “The Lord God of Israel chose me above all the house of my father to be king over Israel forever, for He has chosen Judah to be the ruler, and of the house of Judah, the house of my father, and among the sons of my father, He was pleased with me to make me king over all Israel.

Notice that David said, "forever."



Matthew 19: 28-29 – So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And anyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit everlasting life.

The saints will be given rulership over the earth.

The saints will judge the world; this is another way of saying that the saints will rule the world....they (we) will be kings over the earth.

1Corinthians 6: 2 – Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matter?


The unjust (the unconverted) will be resurrected.

Acts 24:15 (ASV)
15 having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust.

If you have not already done so check out the link in the General Bible Study area for my post that goes into this subject a little deeper.....there are ten parts to it.


The Kingdom of God and you

http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=23045

The unbeliever always has a chance during their physical life span to repent and turn to the Lord. It makes no difference which time frame one lives in .... on this side of the tribulation, or in it. This will also be true of those mortals who live on the earth during the Lord's millennial kingdom. If one does not seek the Lord and receive His offer of salvation during their life time one will not enter eternity. This is a bottom line requirement and there is no getting around it. There will be no recourse for the unbeliever who never returns to the Lord for salvation. Keep in mind that the Lord is perfectly just in His judgment of the unbeliever. All humans have the knowledge of God in their awareness and none have any excuse for rejecting or avoiding Him. He also knows what all humans will eventually end up doing before hand regarding this matter ..... and what even those who have not heard the gospel would do if they did. There is nothing past, present, or future that He does not know about the thoughts and behavior of any. He never makes a mistake in His decision process regarding one's salvation. The fact is that one cannot live eternally without the Lord. He is the life source for all life forms in His creation without which one will eventually perish. One must realize and accept this fact and their absolute need to recognize their Creator and the requirement to follow and depend upon His providence, direction, and preservation. Willfull rejection of this truth will be the end of the road for the unbeliever. I would suggest reading Romans chapter 1 and 2 for understanding.

Colossians 1:15-23
15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation.* 16 Christ is the one through whom God created everything in heaven and earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see—kings, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities. Everything has been created through him and for him. 17 He existed before everything else began, and he holds all creation together.
18 Christ is the head of the church, which is his body. He is the first of all who will rise from the dead,* so he is first in everything. 19 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, 20 and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross. 21 This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions, 22 yet now he has brought you back as his friends. He has done this through his death on the cross in his own human body. As a result, he has brought you into the very presence of God, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault. 23 But you must continue to believe this truth and stand in it firmly. Don’t drift away from the assurance you received when you heard the Good News. The Good News has been preached all over the world, and I, Paul, have been appointed by God to proclaim it.

Philippians 2:5-11
5 Your attitude should be the same that Christ Jesus had. 6 Though he was God, he did not demand and cling to his rights as God. 7 He made himself nothing;* he took the humble position of a slave and appeared in human form.* 8 And in human form he obediently humbled himself even further by dying a criminal’s death on a cross. 9 Because of this, God raised him up to the heights of heaven and gave him a name that is above every other name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

There is no conversion to the truth if one is not converted before their physical death or before the return of christ..

Got some scripture to back it up?

Yes there is a chance,,,,If someone is to die right now and there unsaved,,,,that does not mean there going to the lake of fire,,,,judgement on death is not the same as White thrown judgement......

The day of the Lord is a day of teaching,,,,Everyone will be in spiritual bodys,,,,thus there is no excuses....Everyone will be taught.....

wow, those moonies sure carry alot of false doctrines around

Stopping teaching these lies..

In your delusions..everyone will be taught..only Gods chosen people..heb 8:

10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11And they[ house of Israel] shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:

Php 2:10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth,
Php 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

In the end, everyone will confess Jesus is Lord, and believe that God raised him from the dead.. because he'll be standing right in front of them, Lol.

If what you say is true then Christ did not go to hell and bring back souls......




If what you say is true then Christ did not go to hell and bring back souls......

what do you think the millenium is??????What will the elects be doing????? They will be teaching the whole world,,,because the world has been following the false one,,,,,you ignorant students,,,God told you dont judge souls,,,He has the final say so,, at white thrown,,,not you and your stupid ideas,,,,lets take it to the scriptures,,,then maybe that will end your babelings....

The problem is that no one can truly believe God's truth in their heart, unless God give them a NEW heart:

"The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9

But God gives His people a new heart... only then will one be able to believe in their heart the truth of God's Word:

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]." Ezekiel 36:26-27

"Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2Corinthians 5:17

Salvation is not of works...

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

Believing is a work. So, we can only have enough grace to believe after God does the work (gives us a new heart)... He freely gives it to us!

Still waiting on the scriptures to back this statement up.

There is none,,,,what can be documented is when you die you go to the left side or the right side of the gulf,,,,,until judgement time,,,,,and judgement belongs to GOD....

These morons will have young christians believing there uncle joe who never really believed in God or Christ is doomed,,,when in reality we were told judge not!!!!!!!

"Still waiting on the scriptures to back this statement up."

Read your Bible

Don't wait two long .... you might die tomorrow

By the way .... what is a jiggyfly?

I do read the bible but I haven't found any scriptures to support this concept, do you? If so maybe you can help me out and list the scriptures?

What is a jiggyfly? My nickname here.

You have been deceived, the second coming is about to occur, and end this world friend..just watch and see..

Dont have none that will cure your unbelief..you just going to half to wait and see..If you were of God, you would know this..

I will assume then that your belief in this matter is not based on scriptures, so what do you base it on????????????????

YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE,,,WHO TELL OTHERS CHRIST IS COMING CHRIST IS COMING,,,WITHOUT TELLING THEM ANTICHRIST IS COMING FIRST??????????

and you say im decieved???? I have spoken to you before,,,and proved you wrong at every turn,,,and now you are being asked to back your belief up by jigglyfly and you cant do it.....

Well since you cant back up your words with scripture I will

Rev. 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
According to their works? Then works must be tremendously important, right? Absolutely! They are judged according to their works, both good and bad. Notice that more than one book is opened, and one of them is called the book of life. Those who names are written in the book of life will be resurrected into the Kingdom of God and will inherit eternal life again, but those whose names are written in the other books have yet to prove themselves worthy of resurrection into the Kingdom of God and eternal life.

Daniel also touches on this subject.


Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

So as you can see even the people that are dead already will be judged,,,,,so that means when they died they were judged,,,but that wasnt final judgement.....If they were already DOOMDED then it would be no need to judge them again..........

Once again you been bested

unless you have some scripture to back up your words??????but I doubt it....

God's Wrath Against Mankind

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Gideon said,

First off, never cease praying for unsaved lovedones or loved ones that may be saved and are living in sin. Secondly, read my thread The Blessed Hope. Fianlly, why do you believe in a pretrib rapture? Is this something you have reasoned by study? Is this something you believe because you have read a book or saw a movie? Do you believe this pretrib rapture because your pastor or someone else told you it was so? It is very important for you to know why you believe what you believe.

Let's assume Christ does not come before the tribulation, but rather after all the tribulation. What will that do to those you are witnessing to by telling them he will take you out. Most likely they will mock you and have no faith in your Jesus, as he would have failed to save you from the tribulation. They will also think you are a liar. I believe you are a very sincere Christian, and can discern the reality of the Lord's return, a post trib reality. You should study it. If you were not sincerely a christian, you would not be concerned about the eternity for your loved ones and friends. THIS tells me you must be a true Christian.

To answer your question, I am more concerned with pretriber as a certain pretend to be Christians not being able to get saved during the tribulation than I am with the unsaved. In other words, there are many people that pretend to be Christians but are not, and they preach pretribulationalism, not knowing what they say; they repeat or cut and paste things, not knowing the truth. The unsaved that rejected or made a decision will most likely have a better opportunity than ever to get saved during this tribulation period, as they see christians dying for their faith. THere is no better testimony than for someone to die for what they believe in.

Pretribulationalism was started by Darby, Irvine and Scofield and is not historically correct or prophetically interpreted in the Bible. We can go back in time to 100 AD and see the early church saints were post tribulationists. This pretrib fairy tale, as I like to call it, did not come about until the mid 1800's or even a bit earlier, like 1830. It holds no water when compared to scripture and all the data in scripture. It is a church tradition started about 180 years ago, that holds on to churches and religious leaders like super glue. They can not let go of the thought, as it could devistate their churches and bring reproach to them by their movement.

My point is, be careful in telling your loved ones Jesus is coming for you to fly you away; seriously, this is not true. Truthfully, do not believe me, seek for the answers, in books and scripture to do so. Also keep praying for your loved ones to be saved and invite them to church or have a bible study with them. Most importantly, live a Holy life, so you can be a beacon of light to your lost loved ones. Until you settle the matter of pre or post tribulation rapture in your heart and in GOd's words, do not preach it to the lost, as you may cause more problem. First find out the facts, before you tell people Jesus is going to fly you away and leave them here.

The same that happens to aborted babies. They are raised by our heavenly Father.

Do you have any scripture to support this?

Jesus said suffer all little children to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of heaven. Little children are not acountable as they do not know. He is with Jesus.

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”

Where did you think they go, and what happens to them? I'm not sure about your God, but my God has conquered death and the grave.

I'm sorry but thats not what it means Jesus was referring to their faith, how easily they believe. Jesus also said that the kingdom of heaven is like ten virgins so does that mean all virgins go to heaven?

Jesus meant that those who had an attitude like that of a little child; to receive the kingdom one must have a teachable attitude like that of a child….Jesus was always using the physical things to teach a spiritual truth.

Here is an example of one of my brother's view on end times. Sad, huh? It is all a joke to him. PLEASE PRAY FOR HIM, HE NEEDS IT! I received this email from him today (email is purple text below):

So its between the yrs 2012 and 2060 but maybe longer or could be sooner
Sounds like we better start packing LOL

I also hope the aliens enjoy a great party cause we are gonna hang, just tell em its BYOB and I will fire up the grill
And by the way we wont need much propane cause I hear you can cook some mytee tastee burgers over an asteroid

On a happy note, my other brother called today and he was interested in talking about the Bible and he wanted me to email him Word files I have! He has been reading his Bible too.

Hi Fere,

There is only one thing that we know for sure will not be forgivable, and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, I truly believe that many who heard the Gospel will be saved during the great tribulation.

Mark 3:28-30

28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.


Rev.7:13-17

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Will pray for them when I pray for the members of my family and friends who kind of take things very lightly as your brother.

May God gives you wisdom,
Bb