A friend sent me this. Very interesting.
....................
Dutch Sheets: "Get Ready for SEPTEMBER - A SEASON of SUDDENLIES"
By Dutch Sheets
Aug 13, 2008
Get ready for September! It is so huge on God's timetable that it will mark one of the greatest shifts in the spiritual realm that our generation has ever seen:
* A season of suddenlies will begin.
* The confusion and deception ruling America (including within the Church) will begin to lift.
* The November elections will shift toward God's will.
* The coming "great awakening" to America will go to a new level.
* The "presence movement" will begin.
A Season of Suddenlies
I have heard of divine "suddenlies" all of my life and have no doubt experienced a few. However, I have never been in what I would call "a season of suddenlies." I'm in one now! And this new season is about to break forth in a significant way for those who have allowed God to prepare them for it.
I was already releasing this word when Chuck Pierce prophesied to me two weeks ago, "You will stand on the steps facing 'The Mall' (in Washington, D.C.) in September and decree: 'Suddenlies are coming!' Be prepared for I will begin to jar and to rearrange what needs to be rearranged."
This season will usher in many changes - get ready!
Confusion and Deception Broken
The level of confusion and deception I have seen over America in the last two year s both in the Church and without has been unlike anything I have ever witnessed. The level of it, especially in the Body of Christ, has truly been shocking to me. The list of areas in which it has manifested is broad: presidential candidate endorsements and prophecies, doctrinal error, relational breakups, disagreements over what is true and false revival, etc.
Add to this list a general weariness, complacency (one well-known leader told me he doesn't think it matters anymore who is elected president - so much for shifting the Supreme Court!), disillusionment, disorientation, etc. - and it all adds up to incredible confusion and deception. I believe it is all linked to our war in Iraq, which is ancient Babylon. Babylon means "confusion." It was not difficult for us to defeat Iraq's physical army, but the principality - the spirit of Babylon - has been another story altogether.
Just a couple of weeks ago, however, I heard the Holy Spirit say very clearly to me, "I'm about to unravel the cords of confusion." When I heard this I had the sense that it would begin in September.
In 2 Chronicles 20, God used Israel's worship to "ambush" their enemies. The result was that these enemies destroyed one another! Expect the confusion to break off of the Church this fall and for God's enemies to be ambushed.
The November Elections
To say it has been troubling to listen to prominent Christian leaders endorse certain candidates and/or pr ophesy that it is God's will for those candidates to be president would be an understatement. Make no mistake about it, the turning of the Supreme Court and reversing the flow of death and anti-God laws that have flowed out of it is still God's number one governmental agenda for America.
To elect a pro-abortion candidate that would appoint pro-abortion judges would be disastrous and could set us back 50 years. It doesn't matter who prophesies or states otherwise - don't be deceived by this. It is NOT God's will for us to have a liberal, pro-abortion president!
I listened to one of the presidential candidates make a speech four years ago and heard one of the strongest abilities for deceiving and moving the masses that I've ever witnessed. The strength of this "gift" was very scary. I knew then he would be a candidate for president in '08. The good news is that the deception surrounding him will begin to break in September and the momentum of the elections will be decided at that time - if the Church prays. Please pray diligently and don't be taken in by charisma and empty promises of change.
The Presence Movement and Upcoming Conference
The coming awakening will not be known as a prayer movement, apostolic movement, prophetic movement, teaching movement, miracle movement, gifts movement, glory movement, etc. It will include all of these, but the dominant emphasis and characteristic will be - His presence. He - not one of His manifestations20or elements of gifting - will be the focal point.
Our ministry in Colorado Springs, along with many others I'm sure, has been privileged by God to help birth this. We were visited by the Holy Spirit on June 15 and asked to host His Presence 24/7 for 90 days, just as Obed-edom did with the Ark of the Covenant, which is also called "the Ark of His Presence" (see 2 Samuel 6:10-11).
We have suspended everything else to host Him. No classes, no preaching (even on Sundays), no programs - nothing but worship. It has wrecked us! His presence has been so overwhelming at times in our gatherings that none of us knows what to do. We are being ruined for "normal" Christianity.
It has become obvious to us that this assignment is on behalf of the entire nation. We are in the hidden, secret place with God, allowing the Holy Spirit to hover through our worship and birth a "presence movement." God has spoken to us prophetically that this movement characterized by His presence will begin to be released to the nation in September.
To facilitate this we are moving our hosting of Him to a larger venue for the last 3 days, September 11-13, and inviting many to join us. We are confident that what we, and I'm sure others, have been birthing will be imparted to hundreds - perhaps thousands at that time.
When God spoke to me to expand the last 3 days for the purpose of impartation, I was not thinking about the fact t hat this would begin on our 88th day, which also begins the 8th year after 9/11/01. Eight is the Biblical number for new beginnings. (Many of you are aware that Chuck Pierce prophesied that America would enter into a seven-year season of war, which began on 9/11/01.)
We did not plan this visitation and the consequent 90-day assignment to begin when it did, making the 88th day September 11, ending a seven-year war cycle and marking a new beginning...but God did! Come and help us decree the end of the old season and launch this "new beginning" of the presence movement!
These 3 days will probably be unlike anything you've been a part of - no preaching or teaching, just worship 24 hours each day. (We, of course, always make room for intercession and prophetic release as the Holy Spirit leads.) Some of us may bring a blanket and pillow and, like Joshua of old, stay in His presence all the time, except perhaps to freshen up once in awhile (see Exodus 33:11). (If you are coming to the event, please secure lodging if you're coming from out of town in order to have a place for your belongings, to clean up and to rest if necessary.) I am certain that those who come will carry His presence home with them.
Pastors and leaders, families, individuals, intercessors, worshippers...come. We are asking you to register in order to know how many to accommodate, but there is no registration fee. We simply ask you to bring a God-honoring offering to defray expense s. This will cost us approximately forty thousand dollars because of the building rental, chairs, P.A., bringing in worship teams, etc. (no worship leader will receive an honorarium. Their worship is an offering to Him, but we will cover their expenses). Klaus Kuehn, Rick Pino, Eddie James, Jeremy Burk and other worship leaders are coming to help us. It will be amazing!
You can register by going to www.usapostolicalliance.org
I'll see you September 11th as we gather at 9:00 A.M. to do our part in releasing perhaps the greatest outpouring of the Holy Sprit this nation has ever received. Don't miss it!
With anticipation,
Dutch Sheets
Dutch Sheets Ministries
Email: ministryinfo@dutchsheets.org
Dutch Sheet's Itinerary:
August 29-30, 2008
Awakening the Heart of Texas
High Point Church
Waco, TX
Contact: 719-375-1796
September 11-15, 2008
Phil Long Expo Center
1515 Auto Mall Loop
Colorado Springs, CO
For full schedule and to register visit: http://usapostolicalliance.org/
Permission is granted (and you are also encouraged) to reprint these articles in hard copy form, as well as sending them to your own email lists and posting them on your own websites. We ask only that you keep ElijahList website, email contact info, and author contact information intact.
ElijahList Publications
Full Version: Prophetic Word For The United States
Dutch Sheets is a man of God who I respect greatly. May all he says here be so. Would to God I could attend this meeting set.....the way my life has turned this year...maybe I will...I was told to expect the unexpected this year and I have had some interesting times...I have in my latent prophetic gifting, felt a yearning within that this year is to usher in vast changes for the world. The manifestation of His presence is to be the next great move of God. I am sure we will experience a mighty heart change and will be carried aloft by the very hand of God. I pray God does all this and more.
QUOTE (Maz @ Aug 14 2008, 08:55 PM) 
Dutch Sheets is a man of God who I respect greatly. May all he says here be so. Would to God I could attend this meeting set.....the way my life has turned this year...maybe I will...I was told to expect the unexpected this year and I have had some interesting times...I have in my latent prophetic gifting, felt a yearning within that this year is to usher in vast changes for the world. The manifestation of His presence is to be the next great move of God. I am sure we will experience a mighty heart change and will be carried aloft by the very hand of God. I pray God does all this and more.
Me to.
I didn't know that much about Dutch Sheets...but I knew that the person who sent it would not send it unless he was on the up and up.
I pray this comes true.
Can anything true come from a hireling?
Dutch Sheets is the Senior Pastor of Freedom Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, where he has pastored for thirteen years.
He has served on the faculty of Christ for the Nations Institute, now serves as an instructor for Destiny Bible School and is a guest lecturer for Wagner Leadership Institute.
He serves on many ministry boards and is a best selling author with Regal Books (a division of Gospel Light).
Dutch Sheets is the Senior Pastor of Freedom Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, where he has pastored for thirteen years.
He has served on the faculty of Christ for the Nations Institute, now serves as an instructor for Destiny Bible School and is a guest lecturer for Wagner Leadership Institute.
He serves on many ministry boards and is a best selling author with Regal Books (a division of Gospel Light).
Isaiah 58
1Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
2Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.
3Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
4Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
5Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
6Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
7Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
8Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy reward.
9Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
10And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day:
11And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
12And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
13If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
I'm all for the Lord pouring out his presence of deep conviction by the Holy Spirit on the sins of his people in America. May we be found praying in groups on the street corners, interceding for our nation, lest judgment fall.
May he manifest his presence first upon those in shackles, or those separated from loved ones, or those going hungry right now overseas because of the testimony of Christ lived in a country of oppression, where persecution leads one to cling to the faith of Christ and wonder, "Lord...when are you coming? Tarry no longer!"
My, how deceptive and blinding the riches of America are!
Thankfully, with God, all things are possible, otherwise there would be no true Christians in this nation. He gives grace upon the humble...those he has humbled.
May the Lord prepare and preserve us to go through that which will teach us to fall at his feet in utter abandonment of our own ideas and plans. Without him, we can do nothing.
In Christ,
Mike
P.S. I'd be a whole lot more comfortable with this prophecy if there were a lot more scriptures to back it up.
1Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
2Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.
3Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
4Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
5Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
6Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
7Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
8Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy reward.
9Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
10And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day:
11And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
12And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
13If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
I'm all for the Lord pouring out his presence of deep conviction by the Holy Spirit on the sins of his people in America. May we be found praying in groups on the street corners, interceding for our nation, lest judgment fall.
May he manifest his presence first upon those in shackles, or those separated from loved ones, or those going hungry right now overseas because of the testimony of Christ lived in a country of oppression, where persecution leads one to cling to the faith of Christ and wonder, "Lord...when are you coming? Tarry no longer!"
My, how deceptive and blinding the riches of America are!
Thankfully, with God, all things are possible, otherwise there would be no true Christians in this nation. He gives grace upon the humble...those he has humbled.
May the Lord prepare and preserve us to go through that which will teach us to fall at his feet in utter abandonment of our own ideas and plans. Without him, we can do nothing.
In Christ,
Mike
P.S. I'd be a whole lot more comfortable with this prophecy if there were a lot more scriptures to back it up.
The "presence movement" will begin... Really??
Do we need to go to a conference or certain church to be in his presence?
And Larry, you know as well as l, that the suddenly seasons have been on for years and years.
Suddenly things do happen..When? When we get into his presence with our whole heart and repent.
Does he remove all our trials...certainly not.
But isn't it great! ...We don't have to go anywhere to have him intervene in our lives...
Rival begins one person at a time. Start your own personal revival today by being honest with God and acting on the move of your conscience that's slowly become dull because of under use...
Do we need to go to a conference or certain church to be in his presence?
And Larry, you know as well as l, that the suddenly seasons have been on for years and years.
Suddenly things do happen..When? When we get into his presence with our whole heart and repent.
Does he remove all our trials...certainly not.
But isn't it great! ...We don't have to go anywhere to have him intervene in our lives...
Rival begins one person at a time. Start your own personal revival today by being honest with God and acting on the move of your conscience that's slowly become dull because of under use...
I truly hope and pray that Dutch's prophecy here about the US presidential election is true. May it be so.
But if it turns out to be false, will he be called to account for his prophecies? Lets be hopeful, full of faith and prayerfully wait and see.
But if it turns out to be false, will he be called to account for his prophecies? Lets be hopeful, full of faith and prayerfully wait and see.
QUOTE (Miki @ Aug 15 2008, 05:08 AM)
The "presence movement" will begin... Really??
Do we need to go to a conference or certain church to be in his presence?
And Larry, you know as well as l, that the suddenly seasons have been on for years and years.
Suddenly things do happen..When? When we get into his presence with our whole heart and repent.
Does he remove all our trials...certainly not.
But isn't it great! ...We don't have to go anywhere to have him intervene in our lives...
Rival begins one person at a time. Start your own personal revival today by being honest with God and acting on the move of your conscience that's slowly become dull because of under use...
Do we need to go to a conference or certain church to be in his presence?
And Larry, you know as well as l, that the suddenly seasons have been on for years and years.
Suddenly things do happen..When? When we get into his presence with our whole heart and repent.
Does he remove all our trials...certainly not.
But isn't it great! ...We don't have to go anywhere to have him intervene in our lives...
Rival begins one person at a time. Start your own personal revival today by being honest with God and acting on the move of your conscience that's slowly become dull because of under use...
QUOTE
Rival begins one person at a time.
Ain't that the truth....typos are fun!
No we do not need a conference to get into the presence of God. But I think it is a case that God will initiate events through a particular call to go forward in a thing. Let us see is all. I have seen Dutch Sheets several times and he does have a powerful ministry. So does Tim Sheets, his brother...
QUOTE
It has become obvious to us that this assignment is on behalf of the entire nation. We are in the hidden, secret place with God, allowing the Holy Spirit to hover through our worship and birth a "presence movement." God has spoken to us prophetically that this movement characterized by His presence will begin to be released to the nation in September
I will expect in the face of adversity...as I too have felt an indistinct witness that God is going to move this year. My witness is indistinct because of my worldly involvements. These guys have been in a secret place for nearly three months.
If I had two special secret ingredients (time and money) I would go there. Meanwhile I will be going to Seattle in Sept for a tour around unless God waves me off. I will give an indistinct wave in your general direction when I am in WA there Miki...
I'm not closed off Larry...just chewing.
This is supposedly a word for the United States so let's take it seriously.
Let's believe for a moment that God wants to magnify his presence.
What does scripture say..
I like this one
Which candidate is God for? They're both pro-abortion.
So God has to change one of them or keep Bush in office.
We see in part and we speculate in part. The evidence has proven it.
Never the less...what does His presence do?
Here are some scriptures:
Ex. 33:14 And he said, My presence shall go [with thee], and I will give thee rest.
So Moses had his presence with him...We could elaborate a lot on this scripture.
1 CH 16:27 Glory and honour [are] in his presence; strength and gladness [are] in his place.
1 CH 16:33 Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth.
2Ch 20:9 If, [when] evil cometh upon us, [as] the sword, judgment, or pestilence, or famine, we stand before this house, and in thy presence, (for thy name [is] in this house,) and cry unto thee in our affliction, then thou wilt hear and help. This scripture is a mixed bag of both scary and good.
Job 23:15 Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.
Psa 31:20 Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy presence from the pride of man: thou shalt keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues.
Psa 68:8 The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: [even] Sinai itself [was moved] at the presence of God, the God of Israel
Isa 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. Intersting one...
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger.
Eze 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that [are] upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
Luk 14:10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. another interesting one..
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
1Cr 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
This is supposedly a word for the United States so let's take it seriously.
Let's believe for a moment that God wants to magnify his presence.
What does scripture say..
I like this one
QUOTE
Song of Trust and Security in God
A Miktam of David.
Psalm 16
Preserve me O God, for in you I take refuge
I say to the Lord, you are my God.
Preserve me O God, for in you I take refuge
I have no good apart from you, you are my God.
The Lord is my chosen portion and cup
I bless the Lord who guides me
Choosing another multiplies sorrow
So I keep the Lord before me
The Lord in his wisdom leads me to glory
My heart and my soul rejoicing
With him at my right hand I am secure
The darkness will never engulf me
Show me the pathway to fullness of joy
In your presence are pleasures forever!
A Miktam of David.
Psalm 16
Preserve me O God, for in you I take refuge
I say to the Lord, you are my God.
Preserve me O God, for in you I take refuge
I have no good apart from you, you are my God.
The Lord is my chosen portion and cup
I bless the Lord who guides me
Choosing another multiplies sorrow
So I keep the Lord before me
The Lord in his wisdom leads me to glory
My heart and my soul rejoicing
With him at my right hand I am secure
The darkness will never engulf me
Show me the pathway to fullness of joy
In your presence are pleasures forever!
Which candidate is God for? They're both pro-abortion.
So God has to change one of them or keep Bush in office.
We see in part and we speculate in part. The evidence has proven it.
Never the less...what does His presence do?
Here are some scriptures:
Ex. 33:14 And he said, My presence shall go [with thee], and I will give thee rest.
So Moses had his presence with him...We could elaborate a lot on this scripture.
1 CH 16:27 Glory and honour [are] in his presence; strength and gladness [are] in his place.
1 CH 16:33 Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth.
2Ch 20:9 If, [when] evil cometh upon us, [as] the sword, judgment, or pestilence, or famine, we stand before this house, and in thy presence, (for thy name [is] in this house,) and cry unto thee in our affliction, then thou wilt hear and help. This scripture is a mixed bag of both scary and good.
Job 23:15 Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.
Psa 31:20 Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy presence from the pride of man: thou shalt keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues.
Psa 68:8 The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: [even] Sinai itself [was moved] at the presence of God, the God of Israel
Isa 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. Intersting one...
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger.
Eze 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that [are] upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
Luk 14:10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. another interesting one..
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
1Cr 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
So who is doing the talking...Let's look closer:
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.co...abbalah-charge/
All of this may well be true..but has God instructed us to pursue it? Not that l know of. This is a place of easy deception as there is no instruction in Gods word for doing so.
This same type of teaching is offered up here on this forum...I think this occultic teaching is dangerous and God hasn't called us to pursue it...even if it's a reality. He has called us to declare salvation has come and to invite those who would to the banquet table. The greater part of the reward in him will come..I just don't see anything that calls us to try to grab hold of things blindly...reaching through a veiled curtain.
QUOTE
End Times Prophetic, Prophecy, Visions, Dreams, Revelation, Christian Blog
Christian prophecy for the church and for the nations from a servant of God called to speak God’s wordHome About this blogger Statement of Faith Chuck Pierce, Robert Heidler respond to Kabbalah charge
Article by Wyatt Roberts - once again, another good article!
“Sigh.
Chuck Pierce and his pastor, Robert Heidler, have posted an article in which they purport to explain the difference between what they teach and the Jewish occultic practice of Kabbalah.
I have read the article, located here http://www.glory-of-zion.org/20080801_Hebr...us_Kabbalah.doc, several times.
Basically, the document is little more than a blanket denial of charges that Pierce and Heidler are teaching Kabbalah, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I have written several articles exposing the Kabbalistic nature of Pierce’s and Heidler’s teaching, none of which is mitigated one iota by anything Pierce and Heidler say in their article.
I had hoped to put this business about Pierce, Heidler and Kabbalah behind me. Frankly, I have much better things to do with my time. However, I feel compelled to respond.
And so, in the coming days, I will present more information here about the undeniable link between Kabbalah and the teachings of Chuck Pierce and Robert Heidler. In the meantime, I urge you to read this incredible story from a former student who attended the Issachar School run by Pierce and Heidler. It’s a first-hand account of what Pierce and Heidler teach, and it is absolutely incredible. Here’s an excerpt:
“JoAnn McFatter [an Issachar School instructor] got into some stuff that seems kind of whacky to me and apparently Chuck wasn’t there in the room. ‘DNA hold memory, sins, etc’. ‘[we] can talk with animals’….Then the ‘plants have emotions’. That was the 2nd time I’d heard that in 2 months time when I heard that on the DVD. Are you guys getting a little OUT THERE or am I being stretched?
I trust Chuck and Robert absolutely implicitly. I trust Robert because Chuck does…However, I can find nothing in scripture that says plants have emotions and we can talk with the animals. True, I find nothing in scripture on other things too, but this, I am questioning.
JoAnn goes on to say when a word is released from a mouth in heaven, comes a numeric equation, music, a color of light, a fragrance. HUH?
Then, she says what new agers say: fragrances have frequencies. So tell me. Am I to believe what JoAnn says? If so, then MOST of what the newagers say is right on. Then how do I tell the difference between what is Godly and what is satanic?
JoAnn McFatter says the trees talked to her at a church.
The DVD blanked out where she said something about walking on water and how we can pass through a wall…Chuck Pierce [says] sounds are connected with everything and every tabernacle. How do I find out what sound is connected with me?
Chuck Pierce said, when starting to talk on movement…’I'm sure JoAnn has taught on this’. No, she hadn’t, not at all. JoAnn tends to go on and on and on…So what musical notes go with what essential oils? JoAnn mentioned something about it. And if there is one note God tells me about, say, for coriander, is that the same note worldwide or just for that person? And who is to determine which notes go with what fragrances?
JoAnn says colors heal. So do non-Christians. She says paintings heal and everyone has lots of creativity. I knew that, and am SO glad someone else says it to back me up!
This DVD set skips and goes back and forth and blanks out. When JoAnn is talking mostly.
I think it’s totally irresponsible of Glory of Zion, Chuck Pierce, Robert Heidler and JoAnn McFatter to say all of the above and yet not explain anything, to expect people to take what they say on face value without any explanations or reasonings, just nothing!”
“McFatter seems to be into witchcraft. This is very disturbing since Issachar School, run by Chuck Pierce and Robert Heidler is purportedly Christian. She spoke of trees talking to her, of animals being able to speak and commune with humans. She spoke on rocks having frequencies, which in turn, would mean they heal, as those into witchcraft believe. Since no one at the Issachar school is willing to answer questions, it’s left up to the thoughts and imaginations of those taking the ‘classes’ to try to figure out exactly what is going on with these teachings. It certainly robs me of trust I had in Chuck Pierce and his ministry.”
If you would like to read more of this fascinating, first-hand account, it’s located here http://www.my-walk-with-god.com/issacharschool.php
Lest Pierce attempt to create the impression that McFatter is just a loose cannon and doesn’t really represent Pierce’s and Heidler’s more “mainstream” views, keep in mind, she is a co-instructor, along with Pierce and Heidler, on this Issachar School DVD (entitled “Worship Sound and Movement”). Judging from the review, they apparently edited out some of McFatter’s stranger comments.
In any case, here’s a “Word from the Lord,” written by Chuck Pierce, Robert Stearns and JoAnn McFatter in which they claim gold dust magically appeared from heaven during a meeting in 2005. Here’s the Issachar School description of the class, here’s JoAnn McFatter’s home page (bizarre) and here’s a Glory of Zion newsletter in which Pierce promotes the class to be taught by McFatter:
“The Issachar School: Worship, Sound and Movement by Jo Ann McFatter (June 11-13)
I am so excited about our next Issachar School course on June 11-13 [2006]. Following the Pentecost Celebration we will have Jo Ann McFatter teaching on Worship, Sound and Movement. I will be teaching along with her and we will be experimenting with sound and movement. I’ll have a full worship team there that will assist us in connecting heaven and earth.
Most all of you know that Jo Ann is a well known teacher, psalmist, and minstrel. Her CDs are some of the best in the Kingdom of God. Even if you haven’t signed up for an Issachar School course before, you probably will want to be at this one.”
Christian prophecy for the church and for the nations from a servant of God called to speak God’s wordHome About this blogger Statement of Faith Chuck Pierce, Robert Heidler respond to Kabbalah charge
Article by Wyatt Roberts - once again, another good article!
“Sigh.
Chuck Pierce and his pastor, Robert Heidler, have posted an article in which they purport to explain the difference between what they teach and the Jewish occultic practice of Kabbalah.
I have read the article, located here http://www.glory-of-zion.org/20080801_Hebr...us_Kabbalah.doc, several times.
Basically, the document is little more than a blanket denial of charges that Pierce and Heidler are teaching Kabbalah, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I have written several articles exposing the Kabbalistic nature of Pierce’s and Heidler’s teaching, none of which is mitigated one iota by anything Pierce and Heidler say in their article.
I had hoped to put this business about Pierce, Heidler and Kabbalah behind me. Frankly, I have much better things to do with my time. However, I feel compelled to respond.
And so, in the coming days, I will present more information here about the undeniable link between Kabbalah and the teachings of Chuck Pierce and Robert Heidler. In the meantime, I urge you to read this incredible story from a former student who attended the Issachar School run by Pierce and Heidler. It’s a first-hand account of what Pierce and Heidler teach, and it is absolutely incredible. Here’s an excerpt:
“JoAnn McFatter [an Issachar School instructor] got into some stuff that seems kind of whacky to me and apparently Chuck wasn’t there in the room. ‘DNA hold memory, sins, etc’. ‘[we] can talk with animals’….Then the ‘plants have emotions’. That was the 2nd time I’d heard that in 2 months time when I heard that on the DVD. Are you guys getting a little OUT THERE or am I being stretched?
I trust Chuck and Robert absolutely implicitly. I trust Robert because Chuck does…However, I can find nothing in scripture that says plants have emotions and we can talk with the animals. True, I find nothing in scripture on other things too, but this, I am questioning.
JoAnn goes on to say when a word is released from a mouth in heaven, comes a numeric equation, music, a color of light, a fragrance. HUH?
Then, she says what new agers say: fragrances have frequencies. So tell me. Am I to believe what JoAnn says? If so, then MOST of what the newagers say is right on. Then how do I tell the difference between what is Godly and what is satanic?
JoAnn McFatter says the trees talked to her at a church.
The DVD blanked out where she said something about walking on water and how we can pass through a wall…Chuck Pierce [says] sounds are connected with everything and every tabernacle. How do I find out what sound is connected with me?
Chuck Pierce said, when starting to talk on movement…’I'm sure JoAnn has taught on this’. No, she hadn’t, not at all. JoAnn tends to go on and on and on…So what musical notes go with what essential oils? JoAnn mentioned something about it. And if there is one note God tells me about, say, for coriander, is that the same note worldwide or just for that person? And who is to determine which notes go with what fragrances?
JoAnn says colors heal. So do non-Christians. She says paintings heal and everyone has lots of creativity. I knew that, and am SO glad someone else says it to back me up!
This DVD set skips and goes back and forth and blanks out. When JoAnn is talking mostly.
I think it’s totally irresponsible of Glory of Zion, Chuck Pierce, Robert Heidler and JoAnn McFatter to say all of the above and yet not explain anything, to expect people to take what they say on face value without any explanations or reasonings, just nothing!”
“McFatter seems to be into witchcraft. This is very disturbing since Issachar School, run by Chuck Pierce and Robert Heidler is purportedly Christian. She spoke of trees talking to her, of animals being able to speak and commune with humans. She spoke on rocks having frequencies, which in turn, would mean they heal, as those into witchcraft believe. Since no one at the Issachar school is willing to answer questions, it’s left up to the thoughts and imaginations of those taking the ‘classes’ to try to figure out exactly what is going on with these teachings. It certainly robs me of trust I had in Chuck Pierce and his ministry.”
If you would like to read more of this fascinating, first-hand account, it’s located here http://www.my-walk-with-god.com/issacharschool.php
Lest Pierce attempt to create the impression that McFatter is just a loose cannon and doesn’t really represent Pierce’s and Heidler’s more “mainstream” views, keep in mind, she is a co-instructor, along with Pierce and Heidler, on this Issachar School DVD (entitled “Worship Sound and Movement”). Judging from the review, they apparently edited out some of McFatter’s stranger comments.
In any case, here’s a “Word from the Lord,” written by Chuck Pierce, Robert Stearns and JoAnn McFatter in which they claim gold dust magically appeared from heaven during a meeting in 2005. Here’s the Issachar School description of the class, here’s JoAnn McFatter’s home page (bizarre) and here’s a Glory of Zion newsletter in which Pierce promotes the class to be taught by McFatter:
“The Issachar School: Worship, Sound and Movement by Jo Ann McFatter (June 11-13)
I am so excited about our next Issachar School course on June 11-13 [2006]. Following the Pentecost Celebration we will have Jo Ann McFatter teaching on Worship, Sound and Movement. I will be teaching along with her and we will be experimenting with sound and movement. I’ll have a full worship team there that will assist us in connecting heaven and earth.
Most all of you know that Jo Ann is a well known teacher, psalmist, and minstrel. Her CDs are some of the best in the Kingdom of God. Even if you haven’t signed up for an Issachar School course before, you probably will want to be at this one.”
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.co...abbalah-charge/
All of this may well be true..but has God instructed us to pursue it? Not that l know of. This is a place of easy deception as there is no instruction in Gods word for doing so.
This same type of teaching is offered up here on this forum...I think this occultic teaching is dangerous and God hasn't called us to pursue it...even if it's a reality. He has called us to declare salvation has come and to invite those who would to the banquet table. The greater part of the reward in him will come..I just don't see anything that calls us to try to grab hold of things blindly...reaching through a veiled curtain.
Dutch Sheets?...Well..here are his ties.
http://eternalpath.com/lakeland.html
So when we hear a word...Let's look closely.
Yes.. We may well have been going through troubling trying times...but what's new?
I believe these people are trying to say that when you go to their gatherings you will be touched in some way by the Lords presence.
It's all hocus to me.
We should all be seeking the Lord daily...not letting someone else hear for us. When we aren't walking with God we don't hear from him. Then we start desperately reaching out in other directions to hear his voice. Isn't this what Saul did in desperation when the Lord's Spirit departed from him?
Ask yourself? Can l hear God? If l'm not hearing then why? That's the place to start. This is dirty work but he rewards those who diligently seek him. How? By revealing himself to you in your own language.
Should we tell others what we hear? Maybe...maybe not. This is a learning process and by viewing what happens on this forum when we proclaim what we hear...well...it makes one consider carefully and painfully what needs saying. I'm learning. There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus.
There are others more responsible for their words. There are some very calculated undertakings going on. This is especially why we need to hear from God ourselves.
http://eternalpath.com/lakeland.html
So when we hear a word...Let's look closely.
Yes.. We may well have been going through troubling trying times...but what's new?
I believe these people are trying to say that when you go to their gatherings you will be touched in some way by the Lords presence.
It's all hocus to me.
We should all be seeking the Lord daily...not letting someone else hear for us. When we aren't walking with God we don't hear from him. Then we start desperately reaching out in other directions to hear his voice. Isn't this what Saul did in desperation when the Lord's Spirit departed from him?
Ask yourself? Can l hear God? If l'm not hearing then why? That's the place to start. This is dirty work but he rewards those who diligently seek him. How? By revealing himself to you in your own language.
Should we tell others what we hear? Maybe...maybe not. This is a learning process and by viewing what happens on this forum when we proclaim what we hear...well...it makes one consider carefully and painfully what needs saying. I'm learning. There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus.
There are others more responsible for their words. There are some very calculated undertakings going on. This is especially why we need to hear from God ourselves.
I mean really..Don't you think many of these ministries spring up because people aren't hearing from God and they desperately want to but they're lazy and won't seek him for themselves...
The Lord is no respecter of persons and his Spirit is available to all.
Now if a man confirms what we've already heard then we take note.
But l think it's wrong to turn it into a following that causes people to seek God through men instead of seeking God through his Holy Spirit.
Even if it isn't the intent of these ministries it is the inevitable outcome. The ministry ends up being a crutch. Is that OK?..Maybe in some instances..as we are told to teach others. But what are we told to teach? What's in the word.
Listen to what l see as confession. It begins by admitting to ourselves first. Because we bury it.
This is the confession that God want's. Boy...If you don't think this is hard you've never really confessed. When this happens God suddenly begins to move in your life. He runs to meet you friend.
My my...
The Lord is no respecter of persons and his Spirit is available to all.
Now if a man confirms what we've already heard then we take note.
But l think it's wrong to turn it into a following that causes people to seek God through men instead of seeking God through his Holy Spirit.
Even if it isn't the intent of these ministries it is the inevitable outcome. The ministry ends up being a crutch. Is that OK?..Maybe in some instances..as we are told to teach others. But what are we told to teach? What's in the word.
Listen to what l see as confession. It begins by admitting to ourselves first. Because we bury it.
This is the confession that God want's. Boy...If you don't think this is hard you've never really confessed. When this happens God suddenly begins to move in your life. He runs to meet you friend.
My my...
Miki I agree with you. I don't wish to offend other peoples beliefs so I usually don't say anything on these subjects, but I feel as you do.
The main thing that I read from this Prophesy was that this season....sudden things were going to happen. Also that confusion and deception of believers was going to begin to be lifted. I don't think it's right to discount what a Prophet says unless it is known that he is false. To do that is also a sin.
However, I also am cautious about what preachers deem to be "movements" of the Spirit. But as I said....we should be careful about speaking out against a Prophet until God shows that he is false.
When you speak out against someone like that and say he is false (when he is not...if thats the case) then you are speaking out against the Holy Spirit.
However, I also am cautious about what preachers deem to be "movements" of the Spirit. But as I said....we should be careful about speaking out against a Prophet until God shows that he is false.
When you speak out against someone like that and say he is false (when he is not...if thats the case) then you are speaking out against the Holy Spirit.
QUOTE (Miki @ Aug 16 2008, 07:05 AM)
I mean really..Don't you think many of these ministries spring up because people aren't hearing from God and they desperately want to but they're lazy and won't seek him for themselves...
I think your being very judgemental here and non of that if founded on truth. You do not know the heart of man. Only God does. I think ministries spring out of the desire to witness to the lost and do the work of God. Sometimes....they get their focus off of that....and that is how they go down
And the false ones will come out in the open eventually...because darkness cannot stand the light.
The Lord is no respecter of persons and his Spirit is available to all.
I agree with you here.
Now if a man confirms what we've already heard then we take note. Yes!
But l think it's wrong to turn it into a following that causes people to seek God through men instead of seeking God through his Holy Spirit.
I don't think that anyone is advocating that we "follow" this man. Just that He said that the Lord has shown him something...(for those that wasnt to listen).
Even if it isn't the intent of these ministries it is the inevitable outcome. The ministry ends up being a crutch. Is that OK?..Maybe in some instances..as we are told to teach others. But what are we told to teach? What's in the word.
A crutch? Miki...again...you cannot know the heart of man. Only God can. These are really wrong to judge a ministry like this. I don't believe this is true of most.
Listen to what l see as confession. It begins by admitting to ourselves first. Because we bury it.
This is the confession that God want's. Boy...If you don't think this is hard you've never really confessed. When this happens God suddenly begins to move in your life. He runs to meet you friend.
I've been there to that place. And Yeshua met me right there. What it takes is dying to self. Giving it all to God and humbly praying for His forgiveness. I'm so thankful for His love, forgiveness, mercy and grace.
My my...
I think your being very judgemental here and non of that if founded on truth. You do not know the heart of man. Only God does. I think ministries spring out of the desire to witness to the lost and do the work of God. Sometimes....they get their focus off of that....and that is how they go down
And the false ones will come out in the open eventually...because darkness cannot stand the light.
The Lord is no respecter of persons and his Spirit is available to all.
I agree with you here.
Now if a man confirms what we've already heard then we take note. Yes!
But l think it's wrong to turn it into a following that causes people to seek God through men instead of seeking God through his Holy Spirit.
I don't think that anyone is advocating that we "follow" this man. Just that He said that the Lord has shown him something...(for those that wasnt to listen).
Even if it isn't the intent of these ministries it is the inevitable outcome. The ministry ends up being a crutch. Is that OK?..Maybe in some instances..as we are told to teach others. But what are we told to teach? What's in the word.
A crutch? Miki...again...you cannot know the heart of man. Only God can. These are really wrong to judge a ministry like this. I don't believe this is true of most.
Listen to what l see as confession. It begins by admitting to ourselves first. Because we bury it.
This is the confession that God want's. Boy...If you don't think this is hard you've never really confessed. When this happens God suddenly begins to move in your life. He runs to meet you friend.
I've been there to that place. And Yeshua met me right there. What it takes is dying to self. Giving it all to God and humbly praying for His forgiveness. I'm so thankful for His love, forgiveness, mercy and grace.
My my...
Miki...
My responses are within your post and bolded.
It all comes down to following after men who follow after signs. But even God has to start somewhere. The first instance is always to discredit a man. Then to discredit God. Example "Todd the fraud" in Lakeland Fla did not go there to "start" a revival...false or otherwise...it was just another trip. Now he stands condemnend. And what if it is God? The thing I have in me is that Lakeland is the start of something that at least people have "accepted" in the past in order that they will see and hear what is coming next...ala the manifestation movement so called. Pro abortion or pro hardaware...is it all a market strategy to sell spiritual widgets? Time will tell as it is to be soon...like the revealing of the bigfoot....probably kept in a freezer and a few indistinct pictures to prove it.
chloe'
It's not wrong to look at what's being said and match it up to what we already know according to the word. It's all l've ever asked. People never want to confront these things closely. Again..It's not wrong. If some one well known and prominant in the Christian world says he and his ministry have a word from God that is to be released towards the body begining in September we should look closely.
I began by looking at what scripture says about his presence.
Then l looked at his affiliation...Now here we need to be careful because l wouldn't want to be affiliated with the occultists on this forum. So in this area l should have extended more grace because l'm not sure of Sheets affiliations .. only pretty sure.
Here in their own words are what his affiliates say about Kabalistic teaching...rather than just a link.
I don't disagree with it by the way.
But saying it and doing it are two different things.
Now here again, this is the internet and anybody can say anything.
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
This is the same thing happening on this forum. l will and have spoken against it. This type of teaching must be taken by faith...but faith in what? God's word? No.. faith in in a loose ended study that's impossible to grasp unless one throws themselves deeply into the occult teachings. This is blindly reaching behind a veil that the Lord has set in place for his sheep. Those who go there with out a Biblical mandate are trespassing and leading many others to trespass as well.
So is Dutch Sheets affiliated with this teaching? Evidence shows that he is
and if he isn't l haven't heard him speak against it.
So lets ask a question.
Is this an example of the wheat and tares growing up together until the harvest?
Or..Is this tolerating Jezebel?
It seems to me that Paul and other disciples and prophets spoke against the perverted teaching of the day and didn't tolorate them one bit.... Because they were leading the people astray.
When you don't speak
and throw your hands up in the air and just say
"Oh well..the wheat and tares are growing up together there's nothing l can do." is just blinded talk.
There has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere with these teachings.
Does it end up in arguing?..It can. l find people fearful of this kind of confrontation because they think they have to enter the playing field of occult knowledge to argue against these teaching and it's not true.
I was into the occult... astrology kabalah tarot..numbers, musical notes and tones..colors..and how they are all interconnected... Is it true? Probably....But so what. Just because something "is".. doesn't mean we should eat it.
Look...this is what Satan is offering you. He wants you to come across the line and see his stuff.
He wants to offer you what God is holding back from you.
The science of the occult.
He knows plenty and he's willing to give knowledge to you. But this extracts a huge price.
So when we look at a word that comes from a Christian organization that tells us to come for an "inpartation" ... A word given that tells us that by going to a conference we can receive and inpartation that we're suppose to take to the nation, church and world... l don't just brush it of.
I look at it. Chew it. See where it comes from as best l can in the time allowance that l have and then either swallow it of spit it out. I'm spitting this one out.
We have to find the head of the movement someplace. It's tentacles reach into our lives and we seem to go around receiving every kind of teaching and never publicly proclaiming the obvious affiliations with occultic practices. So dislike me if you will. I expect it.
Let's look at what Dean says about the bible-code teachings inparted to him through the calling of God on his life.. He goes through long explanations about the purposes of God through him on behalf of the Jewish people. Unless one reads...hears and sees there is no way you can differentiate between what's being said through his site and what's said through most other bible code sites. If God hadn't have shown me himself... for his purposes and my sake, l could have never come away from this site with stability in my life.
So there is some grace when we start affiliating people.
If you can prove to me that Dutch Sheets renounces the teaching of the Issachar school l'm willing to reopen my ears. But for now l've spit it out. Even with spitting it out...let me add this.
I've been deceived. I've spoken when l shouldn't have. Because it was mixed. I couldn't quite discern it and rather than waiting went forward with to much zeal. So l confess this. What exactly did l say? It's mixed so it's hard to say. Some of it was right. Some flesh and some l believe demonic. I just can't say for sure. I just know it's so. It's a sense in my Spirit l get. A caution. When l cry out to the Lord HE begins to unwind the cords of confusion. He doesn't take his gift away. He just gets me back on course. I'm learning and am offered grace.
But l've never wanted a following
only fellowship
with people who are willing to be honest and humble about their relationship with the Lord through his Holy Spirit..and about the signs of the times.
But nobody seems to want to try to differentiate about certain things. It bothers me a lot.
To know and not speak is wrong.
To chew before you swallow isn't wrong...but l guess what's wrong on my part is talking with food in my mouth. I'm guilty of that...but l'm getting better.
It's not wrong to look at what's being said and match it up to what we already know according to the word. It's all l've ever asked. People never want to confront these things closely. Again..It's not wrong. If some one well known and prominant in the Christian world says he and his ministry have a word from God that is to be released towards the body begining in September we should look closely.
I began by looking at what scripture says about his presence.
Then l looked at his affiliation...Now here we need to be careful because l wouldn't want to be affiliated with the occultists on this forum. So in this area l should have extended more grace because l'm not sure of Sheets affiliations .. only pretty sure.
Here in their own words are what his affiliates say about Kabalistic teaching...rather than just a link.
QUOTE
Hebraic Understanding Vs Kabbalah
Several have asked if there is a similarity between what we teach prophetically at Glory of Zion, and the occult Jewish practice of Kabbalah. My answer to that is a clear and unambiguous “no!” I have looked at websites and material that present Kabalistic teaching and I agree that it is occult and clearly demonic.
At Glory of Zion, we operate from a prophetic understanding, based on God’s revelation of Himself to the ancient Jewish people (Rom 3:1-2). Through His historic dealings with Israel, God imparted to the Jewish people a unique “Hebraic” mindset. This Hebraic mindset was also the mindset of the early church. It is part of the “rich sap from the olive root” that Paul writes about in Romans 11:17.
When the church rejected its Jewish roots in the 4th century, it lost the Hebraic mindset, and adopted a pagan Greek worldview. Because of this, there are many things in Scripture, and in the world around us, that we have a hard time understanding.
Because the church has so embraced a pagan Greek worldview, Christians often find the biblical worldview strange and unfamiliar, but it is essential to understand if we are to correctly interpret what God is saying to His church today.
The Hebraic mindset includes the presupposition that God has revealed Himself and His purposes in many ways: Through His calendar, through His providential dealings with Israel, and even through the Hebrew language. The Jews believe that the Hebrew language was the original language given by God in Eden, and the Hebrew alphabet was given by God to enable Torah to be recorded. (Interestingly, many archaeologists now believe that written alphabetic language probably originated with the Hebrew people.)
The kind of thing Chuck and I do, concerning the meaning of the months, tribes, years, etc, does not grow out of Kabalistic teaching, but out of an understanding of the Hebraic mindset God imparted to Israel.
In our English alphabet, for example, a "letter" is just a symbol used to represent a sound. In the Hebrew alphabet, however, individual letters not only represent sounds, but ideas. They each have meaning. (The Hebrew letters were originally pictograms, like the Chinese alphabet.) Even the shapes of the letters can be significant.
The meaning of a Hebrew word was often determined by the collective meanings of the individual letters. This is not Kabbalah. It was always part of the Hebrew language. Jesus, Himself, taught that even the smallest Hebrew letter, and the smallest part of a Hebrew letter had lasting significance (Mt. 5:18).
It is true that those who practice Kabbalah also begin with a Hebraic view of reality. Because of their background in Judaism, they have a Hebraic understanding of God’s times and seasons. They recognize that the Hebrew alphabet has rich meaning. The works of darkness always begin with a grain of truth, but then mix the truth with error. Kabbalah begins with truth that is inherent in God’s creation and perverts it into something occultic.
If we are to accuse Glory of Zion of Kabbalah we must also accuse every astronomer of practicing astrology, since they both astronomers and astrologers study the heavens and track the positions of stars, planets, and constellations. Recognizing the truth God embedded in the Hebrew language is not Kabbalah, any more than all study of the heavens is astrology!
The problem for many Christians today is that we have inherited a Greek rationalistic mindset that has no appreciation of the Bible’s Hebraic context.
If you read even a little of the writings associated with Kabbalah, you quickly see that what they do is VERY much different than what Chuck and I are doing.
We have had a number of Jews listen to our presentation of the Hebrew year. These have included both messianic and non-messianic Jews, and even a Torah scribe from Jerusalem. Their usual response is that they have never heard a Gentile with such a good understanding of the Hebraic way of thinking. None of them considered what we are doing as Kabbalah.
I believe the Hebrew months, alphabet, and numbering system are an incredible testimony of God's providential working, and His blessing on the Jewish people.
I hope this helps!
Many blessings,
Dr. Robert Heidler
Several have asked if there is a similarity between what we teach prophetically at Glory of Zion, and the occult Jewish practice of Kabbalah. My answer to that is a clear and unambiguous “no!” I have looked at websites and material that present Kabalistic teaching and I agree that it is occult and clearly demonic.
At Glory of Zion, we operate from a prophetic understanding, based on God’s revelation of Himself to the ancient Jewish people (Rom 3:1-2). Through His historic dealings with Israel, God imparted to the Jewish people a unique “Hebraic” mindset. This Hebraic mindset was also the mindset of the early church. It is part of the “rich sap from the olive root” that Paul writes about in Romans 11:17.
When the church rejected its Jewish roots in the 4th century, it lost the Hebraic mindset, and adopted a pagan Greek worldview. Because of this, there are many things in Scripture, and in the world around us, that we have a hard time understanding.
Because the church has so embraced a pagan Greek worldview, Christians often find the biblical worldview strange and unfamiliar, but it is essential to understand if we are to correctly interpret what God is saying to His church today.
The Hebraic mindset includes the presupposition that God has revealed Himself and His purposes in many ways: Through His calendar, through His providential dealings with Israel, and even through the Hebrew language. The Jews believe that the Hebrew language was the original language given by God in Eden, and the Hebrew alphabet was given by God to enable Torah to be recorded. (Interestingly, many archaeologists now believe that written alphabetic language probably originated with the Hebrew people.)
The kind of thing Chuck and I do, concerning the meaning of the months, tribes, years, etc, does not grow out of Kabalistic teaching, but out of an understanding of the Hebraic mindset God imparted to Israel.
In our English alphabet, for example, a "letter" is just a symbol used to represent a sound. In the Hebrew alphabet, however, individual letters not only represent sounds, but ideas. They each have meaning. (The Hebrew letters were originally pictograms, like the Chinese alphabet.) Even the shapes of the letters can be significant.
The meaning of a Hebrew word was often determined by the collective meanings of the individual letters. This is not Kabbalah. It was always part of the Hebrew language. Jesus, Himself, taught that even the smallest Hebrew letter, and the smallest part of a Hebrew letter had lasting significance (Mt. 5:18).
It is true that those who practice Kabbalah also begin with a Hebraic view of reality. Because of their background in Judaism, they have a Hebraic understanding of God’s times and seasons. They recognize that the Hebrew alphabet has rich meaning. The works of darkness always begin with a grain of truth, but then mix the truth with error. Kabbalah begins with truth that is inherent in God’s creation and perverts it into something occultic.
If we are to accuse Glory of Zion of Kabbalah we must also accuse every astronomer of practicing astrology, since they both astronomers and astrologers study the heavens and track the positions of stars, planets, and constellations. Recognizing the truth God embedded in the Hebrew language is not Kabbalah, any more than all study of the heavens is astrology!
The problem for many Christians today is that we have inherited a Greek rationalistic mindset that has no appreciation of the Bible’s Hebraic context.
If you read even a little of the writings associated with Kabbalah, you quickly see that what they do is VERY much different than what Chuck and I are doing.
We have had a number of Jews listen to our presentation of the Hebrew year. These have included both messianic and non-messianic Jews, and even a Torah scribe from Jerusalem. Their usual response is that they have never heard a Gentile with such a good understanding of the Hebraic way of thinking. None of them considered what we are doing as Kabbalah.
I believe the Hebrew months, alphabet, and numbering system are an incredible testimony of God's providential working, and His blessing on the Jewish people.
I hope this helps!
Many blessings,
Dr. Robert Heidler
I don't disagree with it by the way.
But saying it and doing it are two different things.
Now here again, this is the internet and anybody can say anything.
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
QUOTE
“JoAnn McFatter [an Issachar School instructor] got into some stuff that seems kind of whacky to me and apparently Chuck wasn’t there in the room. ‘DNA hold memory, sins, etc’. ‘[we] can talk with animals’….Then the ‘plants have emotions’. That was the 2nd time I’d heard that in 2 months time when I heard that on the DVD. Are you guys getting a little OUT THERE or am I being stretched?
I trust Chuck and Robert absolutely implicitly. I trust Robert because Chuck does…However, I can find nothing in scripture that says plants have emotions and we can talk with the animals. True, I find nothing in scripture on other things too, but this, I am questioning.
JoAnn goes on to say when a word is released from a mouth in heaven, comes a numeric equation, music, a color of light, a fragrance. HUH?
Then, she says what new agers say: fragrances have frequencies. So tell me. Am I to believe what JoAnn says? If so, then MOST of what the newagers say is right on. Then how do I tell the difference between what is Godly and what is satanic?
JoAnn McFatter says the trees talked to her at a church.
The DVD blanked out where she said something about walking on water and how we can pass through a wall…Chuck Pierce [says] sounds are connected with everything and every tabernacle. How do I find out what sound is connected with me?
Chuck Pierce said, when starting to talk on movement…’I'm sure JoAnn has taught on this’. No, she hadn’t, not at all. JoAnn tends to go on and on and on…So what musical notes go with what essential oils? JoAnn mentioned something about it. And if there is one note God tells me about, say, for coriander, is that the same note worldwide or just for that person? And who is to determine which notes go with what fragrances?
JoAnn says colors heal. So do non-Christians. She says paintings heal and everyone has lots of creativity. I knew that, and am SO glad someone else says it to back me up!
This DVD set skips and goes back and forth and blanks out. When JoAnn is talking mostly.
I think it’s totally irresponsible of Glory of Zion, Chuck Pierce, Robert Heidler and JoAnn McFatter to say all of the above and yet not explain anything, to expect people to take what they say on face value without any explanations or reasoning's, just nothing!”
I trust Chuck and Robert absolutely implicitly. I trust Robert because Chuck does…However, I can find nothing in scripture that says plants have emotions and we can talk with the animals. True, I find nothing in scripture on other things too, but this, I am questioning.
JoAnn goes on to say when a word is released from a mouth in heaven, comes a numeric equation, music, a color of light, a fragrance. HUH?
Then, she says what new agers say: fragrances have frequencies. So tell me. Am I to believe what JoAnn says? If so, then MOST of what the newagers say is right on. Then how do I tell the difference between what is Godly and what is satanic?
JoAnn McFatter says the trees talked to her at a church.
The DVD blanked out where she said something about walking on water and how we can pass through a wall…Chuck Pierce [says] sounds are connected with everything and every tabernacle. How do I find out what sound is connected with me?
Chuck Pierce said, when starting to talk on movement…’I'm sure JoAnn has taught on this’. No, she hadn’t, not at all. JoAnn tends to go on and on and on…So what musical notes go with what essential oils? JoAnn mentioned something about it. And if there is one note God tells me about, say, for coriander, is that the same note worldwide or just for that person? And who is to determine which notes go with what fragrances?
JoAnn says colors heal. So do non-Christians. She says paintings heal and everyone has lots of creativity. I knew that, and am SO glad someone else says it to back me up!
This DVD set skips and goes back and forth and blanks out. When JoAnn is talking mostly.
I think it’s totally irresponsible of Glory of Zion, Chuck Pierce, Robert Heidler and JoAnn McFatter to say all of the above and yet not explain anything, to expect people to take what they say on face value without any explanations or reasoning's, just nothing!”
This is the same thing happening on this forum. l will and have spoken against it. This type of teaching must be taken by faith...but faith in what? God's word? No.. faith in in a loose ended study that's impossible to grasp unless one throws themselves deeply into the occult teachings. This is blindly reaching behind a veil that the Lord has set in place for his sheep. Those who go there with out a Biblical mandate are trespassing and leading many others to trespass as well.
So is Dutch Sheets affiliated with this teaching? Evidence shows that he is
and if he isn't l haven't heard him speak against it.
So lets ask a question.
Is this an example of the wheat and tares growing up together until the harvest?
Or..Is this tolerating Jezebel?
It seems to me that Paul and other disciples and prophets spoke against the perverted teaching of the day and didn't tolorate them one bit.... Because they were leading the people astray.
When you don't speak
and throw your hands up in the air and just say
"Oh well..the wheat and tares are growing up together there's nothing l can do." is just blinded talk.
There has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere with these teachings.
Does it end up in arguing?..It can. l find people fearful of this kind of confrontation because they think they have to enter the playing field of occult knowledge to argue against these teaching and it's not true.
I was into the occult... astrology kabalah tarot..numbers, musical notes and tones..colors..and how they are all interconnected... Is it true? Probably....But so what. Just because something "is".. doesn't mean we should eat it.
Look...this is what Satan is offering you. He wants you to come across the line and see his stuff.
He wants to offer you what God is holding back from you.
The science of the occult.
He knows plenty and he's willing to give knowledge to you. But this extracts a huge price.
So when we look at a word that comes from a Christian organization that tells us to come for an "inpartation" ... A word given that tells us that by going to a conference we can receive and inpartation that we're suppose to take to the nation, church and world... l don't just brush it of.
I look at it. Chew it. See where it comes from as best l can in the time allowance that l have and then either swallow it of spit it out. I'm spitting this one out.
We have to find the head of the movement someplace. It's tentacles reach into our lives and we seem to go around receiving every kind of teaching and never publicly proclaiming the obvious affiliations with occultic practices. So dislike me if you will. I expect it.
Let's look at what Dean says about the bible-code teachings inparted to him through the calling of God on his life.. He goes through long explanations about the purposes of God through him on behalf of the Jewish people. Unless one reads...hears and sees there is no way you can differentiate between what's being said through his site and what's said through most other bible code sites. If God hadn't have shown me himself... for his purposes and my sake, l could have never come away from this site with stability in my life.
So there is some grace when we start affiliating people.
If you can prove to me that Dutch Sheets renounces the teaching of the Issachar school l'm willing to reopen my ears. But for now l've spit it out. Even with spitting it out...let me add this.
I've been deceived. I've spoken when l shouldn't have. Because it was mixed. I couldn't quite discern it and rather than waiting went forward with to much zeal. So l confess this. What exactly did l say? It's mixed so it's hard to say. Some of it was right. Some flesh and some l believe demonic. I just can't say for sure. I just know it's so. It's a sense in my Spirit l get. A caution. When l cry out to the Lord HE begins to unwind the cords of confusion. He doesn't take his gift away. He just gets me back on course. I'm learning and am offered grace.
But l've never wanted a following
only fellowship
with people who are willing to be honest and humble about their relationship with the Lord through his Holy Spirit..and about the signs of the times.
But nobody seems to want to try to differentiate about certain things. It bothers me a lot.
To know and not speak is wrong.
To chew before you swallow isn't wrong...but l guess what's wrong on my part is talking with food in my mouth. I'm guilty of that...but l'm getting better.
QUOTE (Miki @ Aug 17 2008, 06:10 AM)
chloe'
It's not wrong to look at what's being said and match it up to what we already know according to the word. It's all l've ever asked. People never want to confront these things closely. Again..It's not wrong. If some one well known and prominant in the Christian world says he and his ministry have a word from God that is to be released towards the body begining in September we should look closely.
I began by looking at what scripture says about his presence.
Then l looked at his affiliation...Now here we need to be careful because l wouldn't want to be affiliated with the occultists on this forum. So in this area l should have extended more grace because l'm not sure of Sheets affiliations .. only pretty sure.
Here in their own words are what his affiliates say about Kabalistic teaching...rather than just a link.
I don't disagree with it by the way.
But saying it and doing it are two different things.
Now here again, this is the internet and anybody can say anything.
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
This is the same thing happening on this forum. l will and have spoken against it. This type of teaching must be taken by faith...but faith in what? God's word? No.. faith in in a loose ended study that's impossible to grasp unless one throws themselves deeply into the occult teachings. This is blindly reaching behind a veil that the Lord has set in place for his sheep. Those who go there with out a Biblical mandate are trespassing and leading many others to trespass as well.
So is Dutch Sheets affiliated with this teaching? Evidence shows that he is
and if he isn't l haven't heard him speak against it.
So lets ask a question.
Is this an example of the wheat and tares growing up together until the harvest?
Or..Is this tolerating Jezebel?
It seems to me that Paul and other disciples and prophets spoke against the perverted teaching of the day and didn't tolorate them one bit.... Because they were leading the people astray.
When you don't speak
and throw your hands up in the air and just say
"Oh well..the wheat and tares are growing up together there's nothing l can do." is just blinded talk.
There has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere with these teachings.
Does it end up in arguing?..It can. l find people fearful of this kind of confrontation because they think they have to enter the playing field of occult knowledge to argue against these teaching and it's not true.
I was into the occult... astrology kabalah tarot..numbers, musical notes and tones..colors..and how they are all interconnected... Is it true? Probably....But so what. Just because something "is".. doesn't mean we should eat it.
Look...this is what Satan is offering you. He wants you to come across the line and see his stuff.
He wants to offer you what God is holding back from you.
The science of the occult.
He knows plenty and he's willing to give knowledge to you. But this extracts a huge price.
So when we look at a word that comes from a Christian organization that tells us to come for an "inpartation" ... A word given that tells us that by going to a conference we can receive and inpartation that we're suppose to take to the nation, church and world... l don't just brush it of.
I look at it. Chew it. See where it comes from as best l can in the time allowance that l have and then either swallow it of spit it out. I'm spitting this one out.
We have to find the head of the movement someplace. It's tentacles reach into our lives and we seem to go around receiving every kind of teaching and never publicly proclaiming the obvious affiliations with occultic practices. So dislike me if you will. I expect it.
Let's look at what Dean says about the bible-code teachings inparted to him through the calling of God on his life.. He goes through long explanations about the purposes of God through him on behalf of the Jewish people. Unless one reads...hears and sees there is no way you can differentiate between what's being said through his site and what's said through most other bible code sites. If God hadn't have shown me himself... for his purposes and my sake, l could have never come away from this site with stability in my life.
So there is some grace when we start affiliating people.
If you can prove to me that Dutch Sheets renounces the teaching of the Issachar school l'm willing to reopen my ears. But for now l've spit it out. Even with spitting it out...let me add this.
I've been deceived. I've spoken when l shouldn't have. Because it was mixed. I couldn't quite discern it and rather than waiting went forward with to much zeal. So l confess this. What exactly did l say? It's mixed so it's hard to say. Some of it was right. Some flesh and some l believe demonic. I just can't say for sure. I just know it's so. It's a sense in my Spirit l get. A caution. When l cry out to the Lord HE begins to unwind the cords of confusion. He doesn't take his gift away. He just gets me back on course. I'm learning and am offered grace.
But l've never wanted a following
only fellowship
with people who are willing to be honest and humble about their relationship with the Lord through his Holy Spirit..and about the signs of the times.
But nobody seems to want to try to differentiate about certain things. It bothers me a lot.
To know and not speak is wrong.
To chew before you swallow isn't wrong...but l guess what's wrong on my part is talking with food in my mouth. I'm guilty of that...but l'm getting better.
It's not wrong to look at what's being said and match it up to what we already know according to the word. It's all l've ever asked. People never want to confront these things closely. Again..It's not wrong. If some one well known and prominant in the Christian world says he and his ministry have a word from God that is to be released towards the body begining in September we should look closely.
I began by looking at what scripture says about his presence.
Then l looked at his affiliation...Now here we need to be careful because l wouldn't want to be affiliated with the occultists on this forum. So in this area l should have extended more grace because l'm not sure of Sheets affiliations .. only pretty sure.
Here in their own words are what his affiliates say about Kabalistic teaching...rather than just a link.
QUOTE
Hebraic Understanding Vs Kabbalah
Several have asked if there is a similarity between what we teach prophetically at Glory of Zion, and the occult Jewish practice of Kabbalah. My answer to that is a clear and unambiguous “no!” I have looked at websites and material that present Kabalistic teaching and I agree that it is occult and clearly demonic.
At Glory of Zion, we operate from a prophetic understanding, based on God’s revelation of Himself to the ancient Jewish people (Rom 3:1-2). Through His historic dealings with Israel, God imparted to the Jewish people a unique “Hebraic” mindset. This Hebraic mindset was also the mindset of the early church. It is part of the “rich sap from the olive root” that Paul writes about in Romans 11:17.
When the church rejected its Jewish roots in the 4th century, it lost the Hebraic mindset, and adopted a pagan Greek worldview. Because of this, there are many things in Scripture, and in the world around us, that we have a hard time understanding.
Because the church has so embraced a pagan Greek worldview, Christians often find the biblical worldview strange and unfamiliar, but it is essential to understand if we are to correctly interpret what God is saying to His church today.
The Hebraic mindset includes the presupposition that God has revealed Himself and His purposes in many ways: Through His calendar, through His providential dealings with Israel, and even through the Hebrew language. The Jews believe that the Hebrew language was the original language given by God in Eden, and the Hebrew alphabet was given by God to enable Torah to be recorded. (Interestingly, many archaeologists now believe that written alphabetic language probably originated with the Hebrew people.)
The kind of thing Chuck and I do, concerning the meaning of the months, tribes, years, etc, does not grow out of Kabalistic teaching, but out of an understanding of the Hebraic mindset God imparted to Israel.
In our English alphabet, for example, a "letter" is just a symbol used to represent a sound. In the Hebrew alphabet, however, individual letters not only represent sounds, but ideas. They each have meaning. (The Hebrew letters were originally pictograms, like the Chinese alphabet.) Even the shapes of the letters can be significant.
The meaning of a Hebrew word was often determined by the collective meanings of the individual letters. This is not Kabbalah. It was always part of the Hebrew language. Jesus, Himself, taught that even the smallest Hebrew letter, and the smallest part of a Hebrew letter had lasting significance (Mt. 5:18).
It is true that those who practice Kabbalah also begin with a Hebraic view of reality. Because of their background in Judaism, they have a Hebraic understanding of God’s times and seasons. They recognize that the Hebrew alphabet has rich meaning. The works of darkness always begin with a grain of truth, but then mix the truth with error. Kabbalah begins with truth that is inherent in God’s creation and perverts it into something occultic.
If we are to accuse Glory of Zion of Kabbalah we must also accuse every astronomer of practicing astrology, since they both astronomers and astrologers study the heavens and track the positions of stars, planets, and constellations. Recognizing the truth God embedded in the Hebrew language is not Kabbalah, any more than all study of the heavens is astrology!
The problem for many Christians today is that we have inherited a Greek rationalistic mindset that has no appreciation of the Bible’s Hebraic context.
If you read even a little of the writings associated with Kabbalah, you quickly see that what they do is VERY much different than what Chuck and I are doing.
We have had a number of Jews listen to our presentation of the Hebrew year. These have included both messianic and non-messianic Jews, and even a Torah scribe from Jerusalem. Their usual response is that they have never heard a Gentile with such a good understanding of the Hebraic way of thinking. None of them considered what we are doing as Kabbalah.
I believe the Hebrew months, alphabet, and numbering system are an incredible testimony of God's providential working, and His blessing on the Jewish people.
I hope this helps!
Many blessings,
Dr. Robert Heidler
Several have asked if there is a similarity between what we teach prophetically at Glory of Zion, and the occult Jewish practice of Kabbalah. My answer to that is a clear and unambiguous “no!” I have looked at websites and material that present Kabalistic teaching and I agree that it is occult and clearly demonic.
At Glory of Zion, we operate from a prophetic understanding, based on God’s revelation of Himself to the ancient Jewish people (Rom 3:1-2). Through His historic dealings with Israel, God imparted to the Jewish people a unique “Hebraic” mindset. This Hebraic mindset was also the mindset of the early church. It is part of the “rich sap from the olive root” that Paul writes about in Romans 11:17.
When the church rejected its Jewish roots in the 4th century, it lost the Hebraic mindset, and adopted a pagan Greek worldview. Because of this, there are many things in Scripture, and in the world around us, that we have a hard time understanding.
Because the church has so embraced a pagan Greek worldview, Christians often find the biblical worldview strange and unfamiliar, but it is essential to understand if we are to correctly interpret what God is saying to His church today.
The Hebraic mindset includes the presupposition that God has revealed Himself and His purposes in many ways: Through His calendar, through His providential dealings with Israel, and even through the Hebrew language. The Jews believe that the Hebrew language was the original language given by God in Eden, and the Hebrew alphabet was given by God to enable Torah to be recorded. (Interestingly, many archaeologists now believe that written alphabetic language probably originated with the Hebrew people.)
The kind of thing Chuck and I do, concerning the meaning of the months, tribes, years, etc, does not grow out of Kabalistic teaching, but out of an understanding of the Hebraic mindset God imparted to Israel.
In our English alphabet, for example, a "letter" is just a symbol used to represent a sound. In the Hebrew alphabet, however, individual letters not only represent sounds, but ideas. They each have meaning. (The Hebrew letters were originally pictograms, like the Chinese alphabet.) Even the shapes of the letters can be significant.
The meaning of a Hebrew word was often determined by the collective meanings of the individual letters. This is not Kabbalah. It was always part of the Hebrew language. Jesus, Himself, taught that even the smallest Hebrew letter, and the smallest part of a Hebrew letter had lasting significance (Mt. 5:18).
It is true that those who practice Kabbalah also begin with a Hebraic view of reality. Because of their background in Judaism, they have a Hebraic understanding of God’s times and seasons. They recognize that the Hebrew alphabet has rich meaning. The works of darkness always begin with a grain of truth, but then mix the truth with error. Kabbalah begins with truth that is inherent in God’s creation and perverts it into something occultic.
If we are to accuse Glory of Zion of Kabbalah we must also accuse every astronomer of practicing astrology, since they both astronomers and astrologers study the heavens and track the positions of stars, planets, and constellations. Recognizing the truth God embedded in the Hebrew language is not Kabbalah, any more than all study of the heavens is astrology!
The problem for many Christians today is that we have inherited a Greek rationalistic mindset that has no appreciation of the Bible’s Hebraic context.
If you read even a little of the writings associated with Kabbalah, you quickly see that what they do is VERY much different than what Chuck and I are doing.
We have had a number of Jews listen to our presentation of the Hebrew year. These have included both messianic and non-messianic Jews, and even a Torah scribe from Jerusalem. Their usual response is that they have never heard a Gentile with such a good understanding of the Hebraic way of thinking. None of them considered what we are doing as Kabbalah.
I believe the Hebrew months, alphabet, and numbering system are an incredible testimony of God's providential working, and His blessing on the Jewish people.
I hope this helps!
Many blessings,
Dr. Robert Heidler
I don't disagree with it by the way.
But saying it and doing it are two different things.
Now here again, this is the internet and anybody can say anything.
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
QUOTE
“JoAnn McFatter [an Issachar School instructor] got into some stuff that seems kind of whacky to me and apparently Chuck wasn’t there in the room. ‘DNA hold memory, sins, etc’. ‘[we] can talk with animals’….Then the ‘plants have emotions’. That was the 2nd time I’d heard that in 2 months time when I heard that on the DVD. Are you guys getting a little OUT THERE or am I being stretched?
I trust Chuck and Robert absolutely implicitly. I trust Robert because Chuck does…However, I can find nothing in scripture that says plants have emotions and we can talk with the animals. True, I find nothing in scripture on other things too, but this, I am questioning.
JoAnn goes on to say when a word is released from a mouth in heaven, comes a numeric equation, music, a color of light, a fragrance. HUH?
Then, she says what new agers say: fragrances have frequencies. So tell me. Am I to believe what JoAnn says? If so, then MOST of what the newagers say is right on. Then how do I tell the difference between what is Godly and what is satanic?
JoAnn McFatter says the trees talked to her at a church.
The DVD blanked out where she said something about walking on water and how we can pass through a wall…Chuck Pierce [says] sounds are connected with everything and every tabernacle. How do I find out what sound is connected with me?
Chuck Pierce said, when starting to talk on movement…’I'm sure JoAnn has taught on this’. No, she hadn’t, not at all. JoAnn tends to go on and on and on…So what musical notes go with what essential oils? JoAnn mentioned something about it. And if there is one note God tells me about, say, for coriander, is that the same note worldwide or just for that person? And who is to determine which notes go with what fragrances?
JoAnn says colors heal. So do non-Christians. She says paintings heal and everyone has lots of creativity. I knew that, and am SO glad someone else says it to back me up!
This DVD set skips and goes back and forth and blanks out. When JoAnn is talking mostly.
I think it’s totally irresponsible of Glory of Zion, Chuck Pierce, Robert Heidler and JoAnn McFatter to say all of the above and yet not explain anything, to expect people to take what they say on face value without any explanations or reasoning's, just nothing!”
I trust Chuck and Robert absolutely implicitly. I trust Robert because Chuck does…However, I can find nothing in scripture that says plants have emotions and we can talk with the animals. True, I find nothing in scripture on other things too, but this, I am questioning.
JoAnn goes on to say when a word is released from a mouth in heaven, comes a numeric equation, music, a color of light, a fragrance. HUH?
Then, she says what new agers say: fragrances have frequencies. So tell me. Am I to believe what JoAnn says? If so, then MOST of what the newagers say is right on. Then how do I tell the difference between what is Godly and what is satanic?
JoAnn McFatter says the trees talked to her at a church.
The DVD blanked out where she said something about walking on water and how we can pass through a wall…Chuck Pierce [says] sounds are connected with everything and every tabernacle. How do I find out what sound is connected with me?
Chuck Pierce said, when starting to talk on movement…’I'm sure JoAnn has taught on this’. No, she hadn’t, not at all. JoAnn tends to go on and on and on…So what musical notes go with what essential oils? JoAnn mentioned something about it. And if there is one note God tells me about, say, for coriander, is that the same note worldwide or just for that person? And who is to determine which notes go with what fragrances?
JoAnn says colors heal. So do non-Christians. She says paintings heal and everyone has lots of creativity. I knew that, and am SO glad someone else says it to back me up!
This DVD set skips and goes back and forth and blanks out. When JoAnn is talking mostly.
I think it’s totally irresponsible of Glory of Zion, Chuck Pierce, Robert Heidler and JoAnn McFatter to say all of the above and yet not explain anything, to expect people to take what they say on face value without any explanations or reasoning's, just nothing!”
This is the same thing happening on this forum. l will and have spoken against it. This type of teaching must be taken by faith...but faith in what? God's word? No.. faith in in a loose ended study that's impossible to grasp unless one throws themselves deeply into the occult teachings. This is blindly reaching behind a veil that the Lord has set in place for his sheep. Those who go there with out a Biblical mandate are trespassing and leading many others to trespass as well.
So is Dutch Sheets affiliated with this teaching? Evidence shows that he is
and if he isn't l haven't heard him speak against it.
So lets ask a question.
Is this an example of the wheat and tares growing up together until the harvest?
Or..Is this tolerating Jezebel?
It seems to me that Paul and other disciples and prophets spoke against the perverted teaching of the day and didn't tolorate them one bit.... Because they were leading the people astray.
When you don't speak
and throw your hands up in the air and just say
"Oh well..the wheat and tares are growing up together there's nothing l can do." is just blinded talk.
There has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere with these teachings.
Does it end up in arguing?..It can. l find people fearful of this kind of confrontation because they think they have to enter the playing field of occult knowledge to argue against these teaching and it's not true.
I was into the occult... astrology kabalah tarot..numbers, musical notes and tones..colors..and how they are all interconnected... Is it true? Probably....But so what. Just because something "is".. doesn't mean we should eat it.
Look...this is what Satan is offering you. He wants you to come across the line and see his stuff.
He wants to offer you what God is holding back from you.
The science of the occult.
He knows plenty and he's willing to give knowledge to you. But this extracts a huge price.
So when we look at a word that comes from a Christian organization that tells us to come for an "inpartation" ... A word given that tells us that by going to a conference we can receive and inpartation that we're suppose to take to the nation, church and world... l don't just brush it of.
I look at it. Chew it. See where it comes from as best l can in the time allowance that l have and then either swallow it of spit it out. I'm spitting this one out.
We have to find the head of the movement someplace. It's tentacles reach into our lives and we seem to go around receiving every kind of teaching and never publicly proclaiming the obvious affiliations with occultic practices. So dislike me if you will. I expect it.
Let's look at what Dean says about the bible-code teachings inparted to him through the calling of God on his life.. He goes through long explanations about the purposes of God through him on behalf of the Jewish people. Unless one reads...hears and sees there is no way you can differentiate between what's being said through his site and what's said through most other bible code sites. If God hadn't have shown me himself... for his purposes and my sake, l could have never come away from this site with stability in my life.
So there is some grace when we start affiliating people.
If you can prove to me that Dutch Sheets renounces the teaching of the Issachar school l'm willing to reopen my ears. But for now l've spit it out. Even with spitting it out...let me add this.
I've been deceived. I've spoken when l shouldn't have. Because it was mixed. I couldn't quite discern it and rather than waiting went forward with to much zeal. So l confess this. What exactly did l say? It's mixed so it's hard to say. Some of it was right. Some flesh and some l believe demonic. I just can't say for sure. I just know it's so. It's a sense in my Spirit l get. A caution. When l cry out to the Lord HE begins to unwind the cords of confusion. He doesn't take his gift away. He just gets me back on course. I'm learning and am offered grace.
But l've never wanted a following
only fellowship
with people who are willing to be honest and humble about their relationship with the Lord through his Holy Spirit..and about the signs of the times.
But nobody seems to want to try to differentiate about certain things. It bothers me a lot.
To know and not speak is wrong.
To chew before you swallow isn't wrong...but l guess what's wrong on my part is talking with food in my mouth. I'm guilty of that...but l'm getting better.
Given the quoted article at the top of the Miki reply, how then is one to know anything? When I was born again I took an extreme interest in scripture. I have not studied deeply in the way that others do in acheiving the meanings of root words and exploring them in an exhaustive concordance. But I have relied heavily on the amplified bible. It purports to have done the word searches to the satisfaction of all. Yet now I see an element of understanding wherein the root and core of language is contested and in that contest comes a vague idea that my faith has been manipulated by undiscernable (by me) word roots that alter understanding greatly. If so, what is the point in reading the bible? I have a limited ability to know God and His word. If I am to be derailed by a concept that everything I have read and have been taught comes from either a Hebrew concept from antiquity which I am not party to, or yet another concept that
"When the church rejected its Jewish roots in the 4th century, it lost the Hebraic mindset, and adopted a pagan Greek worldview. Because of this, there are many things in Scripture, and in the world around us, that we have a hard time understanding. Because the church has so embraced a pagan Greek worldview, Christians often find the biblical worldview strange and unfamiliar, but it is essential to understand if we are to correctly interpret what God is saying to His church today."
Then I have a sense of lostness and hopelessness that wells up in me that makes me want to cry in despair and fling that word across the room and run off a cliff in the spirit and go back to a world I think I understand...survival of the fittest, eat or be eaten...give no place to others...anarchy rules...etc etc....
The vague hollowness I always feel when I am in a forum such as this (and it is the only one I correspond to) is created by the thought that I am like a sappling standing amongst a stand of redwoods and being overshadowed by the size and incredible age of those redwoods. Is there not room among the redwoods for a little child to be a sappling and to get sustenance? I tremble that there may be redwoods that want to kill me. I trust God has a reply to my "anal oh gee" herein found.
I have never met Dutch Sheets personally, but there is a sense in which I feel I know him because I have seen him speak several times on a favourite ministry program of mine in CDA and his brother Tim Sheets also. The messages have been clear and based in what I have known as scriptural truth. I am disjointed by the idea that one is not to trust a soul in the leading of souls and if that be the case, is God for me or against me after all? Shepherds that have the flock in some vice grip of deathly stangulation? I still am prepared to suffer the indignities of trusting in a man or men that God has (hopefully) sent to make me aware of my mortality of soul and eternity of spirit and assisting me in choosing the right path to life.
The largess of this is that all Christians seems to feel we have indeed reached the much touted time of the end. If that is so we are in for a rollercoaster ride of awareness of good and evil and we are simply going through the initial stages of the storm of all storms and so when we will have gone through, we will at long last be able to look back like one would have looked at the trailing edge of Katrina moving off into the distance knowing we have survived and that there is no more testing to be endured, for we are in the kingdom of God and we are standing in the sonshine at long last, with no fear of reprisal or self inflicted judgments and wounds that scar. All will be like tranquility base and the eagle will have landed. If this is not the case. I am not going to be able to go on.
Larry,
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
No..It's stretched way out porportion. This what l'm drawing attention to.
Things can sound good..look good until we really look closely...we need to watch in this hour we live in.
How can you trust anybody? You can. And you can hear God for yourself and test yourself because you know better than any other human who you are.
QUOTE
I don't disagree with it by the way. (the first article)
But saying it and doing it are two different things.
Now here again, this is the internet and anybody can say anything.
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
But saying it and doing it are two different things.
Now here again, this is the internet and anybody can say anything.
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
No..It's stretched way out porportion. This what l'm drawing attention to.
Things can sound good..look good until we really look closely...we need to watch in this hour we live in.
How can you trust anybody? You can. And you can hear God for yourself and test yourself because you know better than any other human who you are.
QUOTE (Miki @ Aug 17 2008, 07:09 AM)
Larry,
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
No..It's stretched way out porportion. This what l'm drawing attention to.
Things can sound good..look good until we really look closely...we need to watch in this hour we live in.
How can you trust anybody? You can. And you can hear God for yourself and test yourself because you know better than any other human who you are.
QUOTE
I don't disagree with it by the way. (the first article)
But saying it and doing it are two different things.
Now here again, this is the internet and anybody can say anything.
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
But saying it and doing it are two different things.
Now here again, this is the internet and anybody can say anything.
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
No..It's stretched way out porportion. This what l'm drawing attention to.
Things can sound good..look good until we really look closely...we need to watch in this hour we live in.
How can you trust anybody? You can. And you can hear God for yourself and test yourself because you know better than any other human who you are.
More wisdom but in that vein, one ought to not be involved in these forums. Hear God and go on in that knowledge and be not unravelled by abstract thoughts, concepts, opinions. One thing for sure, whoever finally proves out to be the real engineer of this train, the train is going to a destination and our time of arrival will be according to a schedule....when it stops at the platform, there will be a few cars where the passengers can get off right there by the station, and those in the back end may have to walk a few blocks. The luggage handlers will have the baggage unloaded by the time those folks get there.
A word:
There's a wind coming from the east. Strengthen your stakes.
There's a wind coming from the east. Strengthen your stakes.
QUOTE (Miki @ Aug 17 2008, 07:24 AM)
A word:
There's a wind coming from the east. Strengthen your stakes.
There's a wind coming from the east. Strengthen your stakes.
QUOTE
Now here again, this is the internet and anybody can say anything
By the rules of engagement you subscribe to, what is the parameter that one accepts this as a word in season? If so, how does one strengthen one's stakes? We are caught up in a movement like flotsom on a storm tossed sea. We must go where the winds and waves carry us. Is strength therefore related to buoyancy? When one is swimming in the sea, buoyancy is easily attained and with a mask one can explore (see into) the depths. With a snorkel one can find room to breathe also. But there is danger of a little insipient entry of water that may choke one if the snorkel breathing tube is not kept high enough out of the waves. Choking is the result of that. Tasting the salt is another side effect. Just pondering this...
I like you Larry! 
You try to be open and honest...
Ok..You asked for it...
Strengthen your stakes was the original word. I knew the "because" element...The east wind.
During our discussion about this prophecy for the United States the wind started to blow. A slight breeze at first. I was concerned for my sunflowers as l have nurtured them and the tallest would be hard pressed to stand against the wind. So l staked them up. I came back into the forum not thinking much about it but the wind got stronger. It was a wind out of the east..It funnels through the mountains here when the conditions are right. The majority of our weather comes off the Pacific but sometimes we get a twist in air flow. I watched the flowers and knew if l didn't stake them again l would loose them. So l got another stake and reinforced the one already up.
Just as l was tying the last cord l heard in my spirit.."strengthen your stakes" I remembered it was part of a scripture so l came in and googled it.
I like the Mathew Henry commentary because it seemed to fit the discussion we were just having at the time about this word...
It never occurred to me to check east wind as God gave me a word with the east wind before but even at that time i didn't know to check it with Strong's concordance. I was just learning at that time. I guess l still am but have come at least a little way down the prophetic road.
East wind is connected in many scriptures. Here's a list of how God uses the east wind. This also enhanced the previous word l had back in 03. You can see that word by following the link l will look for and provide..
Larry..and others who might be reading. If God gives us a word we are allowed to test it. No..we are required to test it...How? Chew it. Break it down.
You can always spit it out....
And here's the thing people. If God gives us a word...wouldn't we want to honor it by at least tasting? And then give others what we've found?...If God speaks l want to hear it. I actually wanted the Dutch Sheets word to be so..but after investigating and then having it confirmed by hearing the word the Lord gave me about strengthening your stakes and why
it was confirmed to me to let it go.
See the length of interpretation for such a short word! 3 words... I added the because...because l knew in my Spirit (the east wind) was what the Lord was saying. He expected me to add because he gave me a brain (small though it may be) to think and join in his process.
Now..
Let's enlarge our thinking to a greater time frame because God is a broad thinker when it come to time. He's been speaking to me about the Olympics and what is being birthed there...He's also been speaking to me about certain kinds of thinking that stems out of eastern thought..The martial arts for example...and what it means to first hold hands with a prostitute...and later to dance with her. He's spoken to me through dreams and visions on this topic.."dancing with wolves".
So....
When we take that thinking (dancing with wolves) and combine it with this prophecy given towards the United States...and the scripture in Isaiah, it shows us the interpretation of this word and what the Lord wants to say to us.
There's an east wind coming...lo..it's already here. It began as a breeze and it is picking up strength. God used both son flowers and tents combine to make a point.
This is a judgement he is allowing. We are almost in full bloom..Vulnerable at this stage of growth..The Lord himself will strengthen us against his east wind of judgement and we in turn must strengthen our stakes.
Larry...He expects us to participate. We are expected to strengthen our own stakes as the tents fill up..Many will come in this hour and are in fact coming. We must know what we stand for and strengthen ourselves in that. And.... he will strengthen..Or maybe his master gardner if you prefer.
How great is our God!!
Three words and look at the interpretation. This is why the flood of quail on this forum is so difficult to deal with. Words coming on the east wind
like the wind the Lord used to bring the quail as judgement. It's too much. I didn't need to type all this up but did it for others, to show you that Gods word can stand..Scripturally and significantly to explain where we are in his dealing with us as a people.. and how he wants us to respond.
Strengthen your stakes.
Here is the link where the Lord used the east wind to demonstrate something to me and others. http://www.netrover.com/~numbers/zzz-email...reaty-lease.htm
You try to be open and honest...Ok..You asked for it...
Strengthen your stakes was the original word. I knew the "because" element...The east wind.
QUOTE
King James Bible
Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes
Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes
During our discussion about this prophecy for the United States the wind started to blow. A slight breeze at first. I was concerned for my sunflowers as l have nurtured them and the tallest would be hard pressed to stand against the wind. So l staked them up. I came back into the forum not thinking much about it but the wind got stronger. It was a wind out of the east..It funnels through the mountains here when the conditions are right. The majority of our weather comes off the Pacific but sometimes we get a twist in air flow. I watched the flowers and knew if l didn't stake them again l would loose them. So l got another stake and reinforced the one already up.
Just as l was tying the last cord l heard in my spirit.."strengthen your stakes" I remembered it was part of a scripture so l came in and googled it.
I like the Mathew Henry commentary because it seemed to fit the discussion we were just having at the time about this word...
QUOTE
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
54:1-5 Observe the low state of religion in the world, for a long time before Christianity was brought in. But by preaching the gospel, multitudes were converted from idols to the living God. This is matter of great rejoicing to the church. The bounds of the church were extended. Though its state on earth is but mean and movable, like a tent or tabernacle, it is sometimes a growing state, and must be enlarged as the family increases. But the more numerous the church grows, the more she must fortify herself against errors and corruptions. Thy Maker is thy Husband. Christ is the Holy One of Israel, the Mediator of the covenant made with the Old Testament church. Long he had been called the God of Israel; but now he shall be called the God of the whole earth. And he will cleanse from sin, and cause every true believer to rejoice in this sacred union. We never can enough admire this mercy, or duly value this privilege
54:1-5 Observe the low state of religion in the world, for a long time before Christianity was brought in. But by preaching the gospel, multitudes were converted from idols to the living God. This is matter of great rejoicing to the church. The bounds of the church were extended. Though its state on earth is but mean and movable, like a tent or tabernacle, it is sometimes a growing state, and must be enlarged as the family increases. But the more numerous the church grows, the more she must fortify herself against errors and corruptions. Thy Maker is thy Husband. Christ is the Holy One of Israel, the Mediator of the covenant made with the Old Testament church. Long he had been called the God of Israel; but now he shall be called the God of the whole earth. And he will cleanse from sin, and cause every true believer to rejoice in this sacred union. We never can enough admire this mercy, or duly value this privilege
It never occurred to me to check east wind as God gave me a word with the east wind before but even at that time i didn't know to check it with Strong's concordance. I was just learning at that time. I guess l still am but have come at least a little way down the prophetic road.
East wind is connected in many scriptures. Here's a list of how God uses the east wind. This also enhanced the previous word l had back in 03. You can see that word by following the link l will look for and provide..
QUOTE
Psalm 78:26 He caused the east wind to blow in the heavens ... He caused the east wind to blow in the heavens And
by His power He directed the south wind. ...
biblecc.com/psalms/78-26.htm - 12k
Job 27:21 "The east wind carries him away, and he is gone, ... "The east wind carries him away, and he is gone, For it whirls him away from
his place. ... The east wind carries him away, and he's gone. ...
biblecc.com/job/27-21.htm - 11k
Jeremiah 18:17 'Like an east wind I will scatter them Before the ... Like an east wind I will scatter them Before the enemy; I will show them
My back and not My face In the day of their calamity.'" ...
biblecc.com/jeremiah/18-17.htm - 12k
Psalm 48:7 With the east wind You break the ships of Tarshish. ... << Psalm 48:7 >>. ... With the east wind You break the ships of Tarshish. ...
biblecc.com/psalms/48-7.htm - 11k
Exodus 10:13 So Moses stretched out his staff over the land of ... So Moses stretched out his staff over the land of Egypt, and the LORD directed an
east wind on the land all that day and all that night; and when it was morning ...
biblecc.com/exodus/10-13.htm - 13k
Hosea 12:1 Ephraim feeds on wind, And pursues the east wind ... ... Ephraim feeds on wind, And pursues the east wind continually; He multiplies
lies and violence. Moreover, he makes a covenant with ...
biblecc.com/hosea/12-1.htm - 13k
Hosea 13:15 Though he flourishes among the reeds, An east wind ... ... Though he flourishes among the reeds, An east wind will come, The wind of the LORD
coming up from the wilderness; And his fountain will become dry And his ...
biblecc.com/hosea/13-15.htm - 14k
Jonah 4:8 When the sun came up God appointed a scorching east ... When the sun came up God appointed a scorching east wind, and the sun beat down
on Jonah's head so that he ... When the sun rose, God made a hot east wind blow. ...
biblecc.com/jonah/4-8.htm - 14k
Isaiah 27:8 You contended with them by banishing them, by driving ... ... With His fierce wind He has expelled them on the day of the east wind. .... ...
biblecc.com/isaiah/27-8.htm - 12k
Ezekiel 27:26 "Your rowers have brought you Into great waters; The ... ... "Your rowers have brought you Into great waters; The east
wind has broken you In the heart of the seas. ...
biblecc.com/ezekiel/27-26.htm - 12k
Job 15:2 "Should a wise man answer with windy knowledge And fill ... "Should a wise man answer with windy knowledge And fill himself with the east wind? ...
biblecc.com/job/15-2.htm - 11k
Job 38:24 "Where is the way that the light is divided, Or ... "Where is the way that the light is divided, Or the east wind scattered on the earth? ...
biblecc.com/job/38-24.htm - 11k
Ezekiel 19:12 'But it was plucked up in fury; It was cast ... 'But it was plucked up in fury; It was cast down to the ground; And the east
wind dried up its fruit. ... The east wind dried up its fruit. ...
biblecc.com/ezekiel/19-12.htm - 13k
Exodus 14:21 Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and ... Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD swept the sea back
by a strong east wind all night and turned the sea into dry land, so the waters ...
biblecc.com/exodus/14-21.htm - 13k
Ezekiel 17:10 "Behold, though it is planted, will it thrive? Will ... ... "Behold, though it is planted, will it thrive? Will it not completely wither as
soon as the east wind strikes it-- wither on the beds where it grew?"'" ...
biblecc.com/ezekiel/17-10.htm - 13k
Genesis 41:6 Then behold, seven ears, thin and scorched by the ... ... Then behold, seven ears, thin and scorched by the east wind, sprouted up after them. ...
biblecc.com/genesis/41-6.htm - 11k
Genesis 41:27 "The seven lean and ugly cows that came up after ... "The seven lean and ugly cows that came up after them are seven years, and the seven
thin ears scorched by the east wind will be seven years of famine. ...
biblecc.com/genesis/41-27.htm - 13k
Genesis 41:23 And lo, seven ears, withered, thin, and scorched by ... ... and lo, seven ears, withered, thin, and scorched by
the east wind, sprouted up after them; ...
biblecc.com/genesis/41-23.htm - 12k
Habakkuk 1:9 "All of them come for violence. Their horde of faces ... They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east
wind, and they shall gather the captivity as the sand. ...
biblecc.com/habakkuk/1-9.htm - 12k
Acts 27:14 But before very long there rushed down from the land ... But it was not long before a furious north-east wind, coming down from the mountains,
burst upon us and carried the ship out of her course. ...
biblecc.com/acts/27-14.htm - 13k
Isaiah 41:2 "Who has aroused one from the east Whom He calls ... dust ..... east ..... feet ..... from ..... ... windblown .....
wind-driven ..... with. Online Bible.
biblecc.com/isaiah/41-2.htm - 14k
Isaiah 37:27 "Therefore their inhabitants were short of strength ... ... discouraged, and ashamed. They will be like plants in the field, like fresh,
green grass on the roofs, dried up by the east wind. ...
biblecc.com/isaiah/37-27.htm - 14k
Ezekiel 11:1 Moreover, the Spirit lifted me up and brought me to ... And the wind, lifting me up, took me to the east doorway of the Lord's house, looking
to the east: and at the door I saw twenty-five men; and among them I saw ...
biblecc.com/ezekiel/11-1.htm - 14k
Isaiah 59:19 So they will fear the name of the LORD from ... So they will see the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the east:
for he will come like a rushing stream, forced on by a wind of the Lord. ...
biblecc.com/isaiah/59-19.htm - 13k
by His power He directed the south wind. ...
biblecc.com/psalms/78-26.htm - 12k
Job 27:21 "The east wind carries him away, and he is gone, ... "The east wind carries him away, and he is gone, For it whirls him away from
his place. ... The east wind carries him away, and he's gone. ...
biblecc.com/job/27-21.htm - 11k
Jeremiah 18:17 'Like an east wind I will scatter them Before the ... Like an east wind I will scatter them Before the enemy; I will show them
My back and not My face In the day of their calamity.'" ...
biblecc.com/jeremiah/18-17.htm - 12k
Psalm 48:7 With the east wind You break the ships of Tarshish. ... << Psalm 48:7 >>. ... With the east wind You break the ships of Tarshish. ...
biblecc.com/psalms/48-7.htm - 11k
Exodus 10:13 So Moses stretched out his staff over the land of ... So Moses stretched out his staff over the land of Egypt, and the LORD directed an
east wind on the land all that day and all that night; and when it was morning ...
biblecc.com/exodus/10-13.htm - 13k
Hosea 12:1 Ephraim feeds on wind, And pursues the east wind ... ... Ephraim feeds on wind, And pursues the east wind continually; He multiplies
lies and violence. Moreover, he makes a covenant with ...
biblecc.com/hosea/12-1.htm - 13k
Hosea 13:15 Though he flourishes among the reeds, An east wind ... ... Though he flourishes among the reeds, An east wind will come, The wind of the LORD
coming up from the wilderness; And his fountain will become dry And his ...
biblecc.com/hosea/13-15.htm - 14k
Jonah 4:8 When the sun came up God appointed a scorching east ... When the sun came up God appointed a scorching east wind, and the sun beat down
on Jonah's head so that he ... When the sun rose, God made a hot east wind blow. ...
biblecc.com/jonah/4-8.htm - 14k
Isaiah 27:8 You contended with them by banishing them, by driving ... ... With His fierce wind He has expelled them on the day of the east wind. .... ...
biblecc.com/isaiah/27-8.htm - 12k
Ezekiel 27:26 "Your rowers have brought you Into great waters; The ... ... "Your rowers have brought you Into great waters; The east
wind has broken you In the heart of the seas. ...
biblecc.com/ezekiel/27-26.htm - 12k
Job 15:2 "Should a wise man answer with windy knowledge And fill ... "Should a wise man answer with windy knowledge And fill himself with the east wind? ...
biblecc.com/job/15-2.htm - 11k
Job 38:24 "Where is the way that the light is divided, Or ... "Where is the way that the light is divided, Or the east wind scattered on the earth? ...
biblecc.com/job/38-24.htm - 11k
Ezekiel 19:12 'But it was plucked up in fury; It was cast ... 'But it was plucked up in fury; It was cast down to the ground; And the east
wind dried up its fruit. ... The east wind dried up its fruit. ...
biblecc.com/ezekiel/19-12.htm - 13k
Exodus 14:21 Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and ... Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD swept the sea back
by a strong east wind all night and turned the sea into dry land, so the waters ...
biblecc.com/exodus/14-21.htm - 13k
Ezekiel 17:10 "Behold, though it is planted, will it thrive? Will ... ... "Behold, though it is planted, will it thrive? Will it not completely wither as
soon as the east wind strikes it-- wither on the beds where it grew?"'" ...
biblecc.com/ezekiel/17-10.htm - 13k
Genesis 41:6 Then behold, seven ears, thin and scorched by the ... ... Then behold, seven ears, thin and scorched by the east wind, sprouted up after them. ...
biblecc.com/genesis/41-6.htm - 11k
Genesis 41:27 "The seven lean and ugly cows that came up after ... "The seven lean and ugly cows that came up after them are seven years, and the seven
thin ears scorched by the east wind will be seven years of famine. ...
biblecc.com/genesis/41-27.htm - 13k
Genesis 41:23 And lo, seven ears, withered, thin, and scorched by ... ... and lo, seven ears, withered, thin, and scorched by
the east wind, sprouted up after them; ...
biblecc.com/genesis/41-23.htm - 12k
Habakkuk 1:9 "All of them come for violence. Their horde of faces ... They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east
wind, and they shall gather the captivity as the sand. ...
biblecc.com/habakkuk/1-9.htm - 12k
Acts 27:14 But before very long there rushed down from the land ... But it was not long before a furious north-east wind, coming down from the mountains,
burst upon us and carried the ship out of her course. ...
biblecc.com/acts/27-14.htm - 13k
Isaiah 41:2 "Who has aroused one from the east Whom He calls ... dust ..... east ..... feet ..... from ..... ... windblown .....
wind-driven ..... with. Online Bible.
biblecc.com/isaiah/41-2.htm - 14k
Isaiah 37:27 "Therefore their inhabitants were short of strength ... ... discouraged, and ashamed. They will be like plants in the field, like fresh,
green grass on the roofs, dried up by the east wind. ...
biblecc.com/isaiah/37-27.htm - 14k
Ezekiel 11:1 Moreover, the Spirit lifted me up and brought me to ... And the wind, lifting me up, took me to the east doorway of the Lord's house, looking
to the east: and at the door I saw twenty-five men; and among them I saw ...
biblecc.com/ezekiel/11-1.htm - 14k
Isaiah 59:19 So they will fear the name of the LORD from ... So they will see the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the east:
for he will come like a rushing stream, forced on by a wind of the Lord. ...
biblecc.com/isaiah/59-19.htm - 13k
Larry..and others who might be reading. If God gives us a word we are allowed to test it. No..we are required to test it...How? Chew it. Break it down.
You can always spit it out....
And here's the thing people. If God gives us a word...wouldn't we want to honor it by at least tasting? And then give others what we've found?...If God speaks l want to hear it. I actually wanted the Dutch Sheets word to be so..but after investigating and then having it confirmed by hearing the word the Lord gave me about strengthening your stakes and why
it was confirmed to me to let it go.
See the length of interpretation for such a short word! 3 words... I added the because...because l knew in my Spirit (the east wind) was what the Lord was saying. He expected me to add because he gave me a brain (small though it may be) to think and join in his process.
Now..
Let's enlarge our thinking to a greater time frame because God is a broad thinker when it come to time. He's been speaking to me about the Olympics and what is being birthed there...He's also been speaking to me about certain kinds of thinking that stems out of eastern thought..The martial arts for example...and what it means to first hold hands with a prostitute...and later to dance with her. He's spoken to me through dreams and visions on this topic.."dancing with wolves".
So....
When we take that thinking (dancing with wolves) and combine it with this prophecy given towards the United States...and the scripture in Isaiah, it shows us the interpretation of this word and what the Lord wants to say to us.
There's an east wind coming...lo..it's already here. It began as a breeze and it is picking up strength. God used both son flowers and tents combine to make a point.
This is a judgement he is allowing. We are almost in full bloom..Vulnerable at this stage of growth..The Lord himself will strengthen us against his east wind of judgement and we in turn must strengthen our stakes.
Larry...He expects us to participate. We are expected to strengthen our own stakes as the tents fill up..Many will come in this hour and are in fact coming. We must know what we stand for and strengthen ourselves in that. And.... he will strengthen..Or maybe his master gardner if you prefer.
How great is our God!!
Three words and look at the interpretation. This is why the flood of quail on this forum is so difficult to deal with. Words coming on the east wind
like the wind the Lord used to bring the quail as judgement. It's too much. I didn't need to type all this up but did it for others, to show you that Gods word can stand..Scripturally and significantly to explain where we are in his dealing with us as a people.. and how he wants us to respond.
Strengthen your stakes.
Here is the link where the Lord used the east wind to demonstrate something to me and others. http://www.netrover.com/~numbers/zzz-email...reaty-lease.htm
thank you, Miki
you, Miki
Your welcome...There's work and time involved in doing this. We can all do it and God will honor the steps we take toward receiving what he says and help us. We give him all the praise and glory...and are ever thankful for his precious and continued mercy and grace.
QUOTE (Maz @ Aug 17 2008, 10:55 AM)
QUOTE (Miki @ Aug 17 2008, 07:24 AM)
A word:
There's a wind coming from the east. Strengthen your stakes.
There's a wind coming from the east. Strengthen your stakes.
QUOTE
Now here again, this is the internet and anybody can say anything
By the rules of engagement you subscribe to, what is the parameter that one accepts this as a word in season? If so, how does one strengthen one's stakes? We are caught up in a movement like flotsom on a storm tossed sea. We must go where the winds and waves carry us. Is strength therefore related to buoyancy? When one is swimming in the sea, buoyancy is easily attained and with a mask one can explore (see into) the depths. With a snorkel one can find room to breathe also. But there is danger of a little insipient entry of water that may choke one if the snorkel breathing tube is not kept high enough out of the waves. Choking is the result of that. Tasting the salt is another side effect. Just pondering this...
The fish that are hauled up in the net, had no trouble swimming to the depths of the sea, and they do not need snorkels either.
QUOTE (Miki @ Aug 17 2008, 07:24 AM)
A word:
There's a wind coming from the east. Strengthen your stakes.
There's a wind coming from the east. Strengthen your stakes.
Miki thanks for the enormous thought and work you placed into responding to me about this..I am replying here for brevity....I have little time. I was led to this verse after reading your explanation....not my idea...
Jer 2:21 Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?
Jer 2:22 For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, [yet] thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD.
Jer 2:23 How canst thou say, I am not polluted, I have not gone after Baalim? see thy way in the valley, know what thou hast done: [thou art] a swift dromedary traversing her ways;
Jer 2:24 A wild --- used to the wilderness, [that] snuffeth up the wind at her pleasure; in her occasion who can turn her away? all they that seek her will not weary themselves; in her month they shall find her.
QUOTE (Miki @ Aug 17 2008, 06:10 AM)
chloe'
It's not wrong to look at what's being said and match it up to what we already know according to the word. It's all l've ever asked. People never want to confront these things closely. Again..It's not wrong. If some one well known and prominant in the Christian world says he and his ministry have a word from God that is to be released towards the body begining in September we should look closely.
I began by looking at what scripture says about his presence.
Then l looked at his affiliation...Now here we need to be careful because l wouldn't want to be affiliated with the occultists on this forum. So in this area l should have extended more grace because l'm not sure of Sheets affiliations .. only pretty sure.
Here in their own words are what his affiliates say about Kabalistic teaching...rather than just a link.
I don't disagree with it by the way.
But saying it and doing it are two different things.
Now here again, this is the internet and anybody can say anything.
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
This is the same thing happening on this forum. l will and have spoken against it. This type of teaching must be taken by faith...but faith in what? God's word? No.. faith in in a loose ended study that's impossible to grasp unless one throws themselves deeply into the occult teachings. This is blindly reaching behind a veil that the Lord has set in place for his sheep. Those who go there with out a Biblical mandate are trespassing and leading many others to trespass as well.
So is Dutch Sheets affiliated with this teaching? Evidence shows that he is
and if he isn't l haven't heard him speak against it.
So lets ask a question.
Is this an example of the wheat and tares growing up together until the harvest?
Or..Is this tolerating Jezebel?
It seems to me that Paul and other disciples and prophets spoke against the perverted teaching of the day and didn't tolorate them one bit.... Because they were leading the people astray.
When you don't speak
and throw your hands up in the air and just say
"Oh well..the wheat and tares are growing up together there's nothing l can do." is just blinded talk.
There has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere with these teachings.
Does it end up in arguing?..It can. l find people fearful of this kind of confrontation because they think they have to enter the playing field of occult knowledge to argue against these teaching and it's not true.
I was into the occult... astrology kabalah tarot..numbers, musical notes and tones..colors..and how they are all interconnected... Is it true? Probably....But so what. Just because something "is".. doesn't mean we should eat it.
Look...this is what Satan is offering you. He wants you to come across the line and see his stuff.
He wants to offer you what God is holding back from you.
The science of the occult.
He knows plenty and he's willing to give knowledge to you. But this extracts a huge price.
So when we look at a word that comes from a Christian organization that tells us to come for an "inpartation" ... A word given that tells us that by going to a conference we can receive and inpartation that we're suppose to take to the nation, church and world... l don't just brush it of.
I look at it. Chew it. See where it comes from as best l can in the time allowance that l have and then either swallow it of spit it out. I'm spitting this one out.
We have to find the head of the movement someplace. It's tentacles reach into our lives and we seem to go around receiving every kind of teaching and never publicly proclaiming the obvious affiliations with occultic practices. So dislike me if you will. I expect it.
Let's look at what Dean says about the bible-code teachings inparted to him through the calling of God on his life.. He goes through long explanations about the purposes of God through him on behalf of the Jewish people. Unless one reads...hears and sees there is no way you can differentiate between what's being said through his site and what's said through most other bible code sites. If God hadn't have shown me himself... for his purposes and my sake, l could have never come away from this site with stability in my life.
So there is some grace when we start affiliating people.
If you can prove to me that Dutch Sheets renounces the teaching of the Issachar school l'm willing to reopen my ears. But for now l've spit it out. Even with spitting it out...let me add this.
I've been deceived. I've spoken when l shouldn't have. Because it was mixed. I couldn't quite discern it and rather than waiting went forward with to much zeal. So l confess this. What exactly did l say? It's mixed so it's hard to say. Some of it was right. Some flesh and some l believe demonic. I just can't say for sure. I just know it's so. It's a sense in my Spirit l get. A caution. When l cry out to the Lord HE begins to unwind the cords of confusion. He doesn't take his gift away. He just gets me back on course. I'm learning and am offered grace.
But l've never wanted a following
only fellowship
with people who are willing to be honest and humble about their relationship with the Lord through his Holy Spirit..and about the signs of the times.
But nobody seems to want to try to differentiate about certain things. It bothers me a lot.
To know and not speak is wrong.
To chew before you swallow isn't wrong...but l guess what's wrong on my part is talking with food in my mouth. I'm guilty of that...but l'm getting better.
It's not wrong to look at what's being said and match it up to what we already know according to the word. It's all l've ever asked. People never want to confront these things closely. Again..It's not wrong. If some one well known and prominant in the Christian world says he and his ministry have a word from God that is to be released towards the body begining in September we should look closely.
I began by looking at what scripture says about his presence.
Then l looked at his affiliation...Now here we need to be careful because l wouldn't want to be affiliated with the occultists on this forum. So in this area l should have extended more grace because l'm not sure of Sheets affiliations .. only pretty sure.
Here in their own words are what his affiliates say about Kabalistic teaching...rather than just a link.
QUOTE
Hebraic Understanding Vs Kabbalah
Several have asked if there is a similarity between what we teach prophetically at Glory of Zion, and the occult Jewish practice of Kabbalah. My answer to that is a clear and unambiguous “no!” I have looked at websites and material that present Kabalistic teaching and I agree that it is occult and clearly demonic.
At Glory of Zion, we operate from a prophetic understanding, based on God’s revelation of Himself to the ancient Jewish people (Rom 3:1-2). Through His historic dealings with Israel, God imparted to the Jewish people a unique “Hebraic” mindset. This Hebraic mindset was also the mindset of the early church. It is part of the “rich sap from the olive root” that Paul writes about in Romans 11:17.
When the church rejected its Jewish roots in the 4th century, it lost the Hebraic mindset, and adopted a pagan Greek worldview. Because of this, there are many things in Scripture, and in the world around us, that we have a hard time understanding.
Because the church has so embraced a pagan Greek worldview, Christians often find the biblical worldview strange and unfamiliar, but it is essential to understand if we are to correctly interpret what God is saying to His church today.
The Hebraic mindset includes the presupposition that God has revealed Himself and His purposes in many ways: Through His calendar, through His providential dealings with Israel, and even through the Hebrew language. The Jews believe that the Hebrew language was the original language given by God in Eden, and the Hebrew alphabet was given by God to enable Torah to be recorded. (Interestingly, many archaeologists now believe that written alphabetic language probably originated with the Hebrew people.)
The kind of thing Chuck and I do, concerning the meaning of the months, tribes, years, etc, does not grow out of Kabalistic teaching, but out of an understanding of the Hebraic mindset God imparted to Israel.
In our English alphabet, for example, a "letter" is just a symbol used to represent a sound. In the Hebrew alphabet, however, individual letters not only represent sounds, but ideas. They each have meaning. (The Hebrew letters were originally pictograms, like the Chinese alphabet.) Even the shapes of the letters can be significant.
The meaning of a Hebrew word was often determined by the collective meanings of the individual letters. This is not Kabbalah. It was always part of the Hebrew language. Jesus, Himself, taught that even the smallest Hebrew letter, and the smallest part of a Hebrew letter had lasting significance (Mt. 5:18).
It is true that those who practice Kabbalah also begin with a Hebraic view of reality. Because of their background in Judaism, they have a Hebraic understanding of God’s times and seasons. They recognize that the Hebrew alphabet has rich meaning. The works of darkness always begin with a grain of truth, but then mix the truth with error. Kabbalah begins with truth that is inherent in God’s creation and perverts it into something occultic.
If we are to accuse Glory of Zion of Kabbalah we must also accuse every astronomer of practicing astrology, since they both astronomers and astrologers study the heavens and track the positions of stars, planets, and constellations. Recognizing the truth God embedded in the Hebrew language is not Kabbalah, any more than all study of the heavens is astrology!
The problem for many Christians today is that we have inherited a Greek rationalistic mindset that has no appreciation of the Bible’s Hebraic context.
If you read even a little of the writings associated with Kabbalah, you quickly see that what they do is VERY much different than what Chuck and I are doing.
We have had a number of Jews listen to our presentation of the Hebrew year. These have included both messianic and non-messianic Jews, and even a Torah scribe from Jerusalem. Their usual response is that they have never heard a Gentile with such a good understanding of the Hebraic way of thinking. None of them considered what we are doing as Kabbalah.
I believe the Hebrew months, alphabet, and numbering system are an incredible testimony of God's providential working, and His blessing on the Jewish people.
I hope this helps!
Many blessings,
Dr. Robert Heidler
Several have asked if there is a similarity between what we teach prophetically at Glory of Zion, and the occult Jewish practice of Kabbalah. My answer to that is a clear and unambiguous “no!” I have looked at websites and material that present Kabalistic teaching and I agree that it is occult and clearly demonic.
At Glory of Zion, we operate from a prophetic understanding, based on God’s revelation of Himself to the ancient Jewish people (Rom 3:1-2). Through His historic dealings with Israel, God imparted to the Jewish people a unique “Hebraic” mindset. This Hebraic mindset was also the mindset of the early church. It is part of the “rich sap from the olive root” that Paul writes about in Romans 11:17.
When the church rejected its Jewish roots in the 4th century, it lost the Hebraic mindset, and adopted a pagan Greek worldview. Because of this, there are many things in Scripture, and in the world around us, that we have a hard time understanding.
Because the church has so embraced a pagan Greek worldview, Christians often find the biblical worldview strange and unfamiliar, but it is essential to understand if we are to correctly interpret what God is saying to His church today.
The Hebraic mindset includes the presupposition that God has revealed Himself and His purposes in many ways: Through His calendar, through His providential dealings with Israel, and even through the Hebrew language. The Jews believe that the Hebrew language was the original language given by God in Eden, and the Hebrew alphabet was given by God to enable Torah to be recorded. (Interestingly, many archaeologists now believe that written alphabetic language probably originated with the Hebrew people.)
The kind of thing Chuck and I do, concerning the meaning of the months, tribes, years, etc, does not grow out of Kabalistic teaching, but out of an understanding of the Hebraic mindset God imparted to Israel.
In our English alphabet, for example, a "letter" is just a symbol used to represent a sound. In the Hebrew alphabet, however, individual letters not only represent sounds, but ideas. They each have meaning. (The Hebrew letters were originally pictograms, like the Chinese alphabet.) Even the shapes of the letters can be significant.
The meaning of a Hebrew word was often determined by the collective meanings of the individual letters. This is not Kabbalah. It was always part of the Hebrew language. Jesus, Himself, taught that even the smallest Hebrew letter, and the smallest part of a Hebrew letter had lasting significance (Mt. 5:18).
It is true that those who practice Kabbalah also begin with a Hebraic view of reality. Because of their background in Judaism, they have a Hebraic understanding of God’s times and seasons. They recognize that the Hebrew alphabet has rich meaning. The works of darkness always begin with a grain of truth, but then mix the truth with error. Kabbalah begins with truth that is inherent in God’s creation and perverts it into something occultic.
If we are to accuse Glory of Zion of Kabbalah we must also accuse every astronomer of practicing astrology, since they both astronomers and astrologers study the heavens and track the positions of stars, planets, and constellations. Recognizing the truth God embedded in the Hebrew language is not Kabbalah, any more than all study of the heavens is astrology!
The problem for many Christians today is that we have inherited a Greek rationalistic mindset that has no appreciation of the Bible’s Hebraic context.
If you read even a little of the writings associated with Kabbalah, you quickly see that what they do is VERY much different than what Chuck and I are doing.
We have had a number of Jews listen to our presentation of the Hebrew year. These have included both messianic and non-messianic Jews, and even a Torah scribe from Jerusalem. Their usual response is that they have never heard a Gentile with such a good understanding of the Hebraic way of thinking. None of them considered what we are doing as Kabbalah.
I believe the Hebrew months, alphabet, and numbering system are an incredible testimony of God's providential working, and His blessing on the Jewish people.
I hope this helps!
Many blessings,
Dr. Robert Heidler
I don't disagree with it by the way.
But saying it and doing it are two different things.
Now here again, this is the internet and anybody can say anything.
Does what Heidler say above match this quote from one of their schools?
QUOTE
“JoAnn McFatter [an Issachar School instructor] got into some stuff that seems kind of whacky to me and apparently Chuck wasn’t there in the room. ‘DNA hold memory, sins, etc’. ‘[we] can talk with animals’….Then the ‘plants have emotions’. That was the 2nd time I’d heard that in 2 months time when I heard that on the DVD. Are you guys getting a little OUT THERE or am I being stretched?
I trust Chuck and Robert absolutely implicitly. I trust Robert because Chuck does…However, I can find nothing in scripture that says plants have emotions and we can talk with the animals. True, I find nothing in scripture on other things too, but this, I am questioning.
JoAnn goes on to say when a word is released from a mouth in heaven, comes a numeric equation, music, a color of light, a fragrance. HUH?
Then, she says what new agers say: fragrances have frequencies. So tell me. Am I to believe what JoAnn says? If so, then MOST of what the newagers say is right on. Then how do I tell the difference between what is Godly and what is satanic?
JoAnn McFatter says the trees talked to her at a church.
The DVD blanked out where she said something about walking on water and how we can pass through a wall…Chuck Pierce [says] sounds are connected with everything and every tabernacle. How do I find out what sound is connected with me?
Chuck Pierce said, when starting to talk on movement…’I'm sure JoAnn has taught on this’. No, she hadn’t, not at all. JoAnn tends to go on and on and on…So what musical notes go with what essential oils? JoAnn mentioned something about it. And if there is one note God tells me about, say, for coriander, is that the same note worldwide or just for that person? And who is to determine which notes go with what fragrances?
JoAnn says colors heal. So do non-Christians. She says paintings heal and everyone has lots of creativity. I knew that, and am SO glad someone else says it to back me up!
This DVD set skips and goes back and forth and blanks out. When JoAnn is talking mostly.
I think it’s totally irresponsible of Glory of Zion, Chuck Pierce, Robert Heidler and JoAnn McFatter to say all of the above and yet not explain anything, to expect people to take what they say on face value without any explanations or reasoning's, just nothing!”
I trust Chuck and Robert absolutely implicitly. I trust Robert because Chuck does…However, I can find nothing in scripture that says plants have emotions and we can talk with the animals. True, I find nothing in scripture on other things too, but this, I am questioning.
JoAnn goes on to say when a word is released from a mouth in heaven, comes a numeric equation, music, a color of light, a fragrance. HUH?
Then, she says what new agers say: fragrances have frequencies. So tell me. Am I to believe what JoAnn says? If so, then MOST of what the newagers say is right on. Then how do I tell the difference between what is Godly and what is satanic?
JoAnn McFatter says the trees talked to her at a church.
The DVD blanked out where she said something about walking on water and how we can pass through a wall…Chuck Pierce [says] sounds are connected with everything and every tabernacle. How do I find out what sound is connected with me?
Chuck Pierce said, when starting to talk on movement…’I'm sure JoAnn has taught on this’. No, she hadn’t, not at all. JoAnn tends to go on and on and on…So what musical notes go with what essential oils? JoAnn mentioned something about it. And if there is one note God tells me about, say, for coriander, is that the same note worldwide or just for that person? And who is to determine which notes go with what fragrances?
JoAnn says colors heal. So do non-Christians. She says paintings heal and everyone has lots of creativity. I knew that, and am SO glad someone else says it to back me up!
This DVD set skips and goes back and forth and blanks out. When JoAnn is talking mostly.
I think it’s totally irresponsible of Glory of Zion, Chuck Pierce, Robert Heidler and JoAnn McFatter to say all of the above and yet not explain anything, to expect people to take what they say on face value without any explanations or reasoning's, just nothing!”
This is the same thing happening on this forum. l will and have spoken against it. This type of teaching must be taken by faith...but faith in what? God's word? No.. faith in in a loose ended study that's impossible to grasp unless one throws themselves deeply into the occult teachings. This is blindly reaching behind a veil that the Lord has set in place for his sheep. Those who go there with out a Biblical mandate are trespassing and leading many others to trespass as well.
So is Dutch Sheets affiliated with this teaching? Evidence shows that he is
and if he isn't l haven't heard him speak against it.
So lets ask a question.
Is this an example of the wheat and tares growing up together until the harvest?
Or..Is this tolerating Jezebel?
It seems to me that Paul and other disciples and prophets spoke against the perverted teaching of the day and didn't tolorate them one bit.... Because they were leading the people astray.
When you don't speak
and throw your hands up in the air and just say
"Oh well..the wheat and tares are growing up together there's nothing l can do." is just blinded talk.
There has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere with these teachings.
Does it end up in arguing?..It can. l find people fearful of this kind of confrontation because they think they have to enter the playing field of occult knowledge to argue against these teaching and it's not true.
I was into the occult... astrology kabalah tarot..numbers, musical notes and tones..colors..and how they are all interconnected... Is it true? Probably....But so what. Just because something "is".. doesn't mean we should eat it.
Look...this is what Satan is offering you. He wants you to come across the line and see his stuff.
He wants to offer you what God is holding back from you.
The science of the occult.
He knows plenty and he's willing to give knowledge to you. But this extracts a huge price.
So when we look at a word that comes from a Christian organization that tells us to come for an "inpartation" ... A word given that tells us that by going to a conference we can receive and inpartation that we're suppose to take to the nation, church and world... l don't just brush it of.
I look at it. Chew it. See where it comes from as best l can in the time allowance that l have and then either swallow it of spit it out. I'm spitting this one out.
We have to find the head of the movement someplace. It's tentacles reach into our lives and we seem to go around receiving every kind of teaching and never publicly proclaiming the obvious affiliations with occultic practices. So dislike me if you will. I expect it.
Let's look at what Dean says about the bible-code teachings inparted to him through the calling of God on his life.. He goes through long explanations about the purposes of God through him on behalf of the Jewish people. Unless one reads...hears and sees there is no way you can differentiate between what's being said through his site and what's said through most other bible code sites. If God hadn't have shown me himself... for his purposes and my sake, l could have never come away from this site with stability in my life.
So there is some grace when we start affiliating people.
If you can prove to me that Dutch Sheets renounces the teaching of the Issachar school l'm willing to reopen my ears. But for now l've spit it out. Even with spitting it out...let me add this.
I've been deceived. I've spoken when l shouldn't have. Because it was mixed. I couldn't quite discern it and rather than waiting went forward with to much zeal. So l confess this. What exactly did l say? It's mixed so it's hard to say. Some of it was right. Some flesh and some l believe demonic. I just can't say for sure. I just know it's so. It's a sense in my Spirit l get. A caution. When l cry out to the Lord HE begins to unwind the cords of confusion. He doesn't take his gift away. He just gets me back on course. I'm learning and am offered grace.
But l've never wanted a following
only fellowship
with people who are willing to be honest and humble about their relationship with the Lord through his Holy Spirit..and about the signs of the times.
But nobody seems to want to try to differentiate about certain things. It bothers me a lot.
To know and not speak is wrong.
To chew before you swallow isn't wrong...but l guess what's wrong on my part is talking with food in my mouth. I'm guilty of that...but l'm getting better.
Very well Miki.
As usual when you explain yourself...(when I have not agreed with something you said) I soften up quite a bit.
Bless you.
Now I have to read the rest of this thread. I'm way behind.
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