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name='Watcher' date='Aug 5 2008, 09:08 AM' post='219194']
Hello Ozell,
Hope you are doing well. I have inlcuded somethings for you to read. I have read over them a couple of time and re-reading still.
First off lets start with this just incase it is brought up. Constantine did not change the sabbath if some still believe that. In the didache "The Teachings of the Twelve Apostles" written in 120-160 AD long before Constantine.
Good evening Brother watcher.
I will have to do some research concerning this didache.
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Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."
We know that the Lords day is the first day of the week a Sunday.
now watcher, until I can get to the diadache and research we have to use the bible to make the playing field level.
where in the bible do it say that the Lord's day is sunday?
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Now the Law I have told you this before. There is a moral law that all Christians are obligated to follow. Do you think that the Israelites needed the 10 commands to know that stealing, murder and things of that nature were wrong? No of course not. Where did that knowledge come from then? Well what was the tree that Adam and Eve ate of again....yes it was the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" this knowledge has been passed down to us from the beginning of time.
you did not tell me who the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is.? who did adam and eve talk to?
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God gave Israel the law to set them apart from the world they were His chosen people. It amazes me the God always chooses the least likely of people to do His work. I mean look how His Son entered this world. Sorry back on track. These laws were tough, Satan has already once tried to corrupt the blood line of man before the flood. These laws helped keep them in line. Sadly they still broke them and God wrath fell upon them but His mercy is greater.
we are in agreement
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The Sabbath is a day of rest. Jesus came to fullfill the law we are to rest in Him find strenght in Him so that we can resist the temptations of the flesh and to deny oneself. The Israelites were slaves working 7 days a week. Man sometimes get wrapped up in his work putting it before God and we tend to rely on our own works and not trust in God and having faith in God to take care of us.
no lets boogie,
what Law did Jesus fulfill?
spiritually we can rest in Jesus, physically how do you rest in Jesus?
is this a physical command or a spiritual command?
Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
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Man can not find rest in himself. No matter how hard we try we still can not rely on our own works to save us. I am starting to see a pattern here about the sabbath and works. We are told we are not found righteous by works alone that faith is the important matter. Abraham was found righteous before the law (Romans 4) was he not? He had faith in God and was a moral man. Abraham rested in the Lord had faith in the Lord. The Jews believed they were saved by their works and not resting or having faith in Jesus or I should say finding their sabbath in Jesus Christ.
again are we talking a spiritual rest or a physical rest.
Paul said
Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Israel broke the Literal sabbath day.
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What was the law for? The knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), I have a hard time believing that man did not know it was wrong to murder and things of that nature before the 10 commandments wich leads me to believe that the law has been in the hearts of man since the fall of man. (Romans 3:31) That is why faith does not void the law in our hearts, we uphold the law in our hearts because we have faith and love in the Lord.
the Law or 10 did not start with Israel brother is started in the beginning.
what is sin?
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
what lawwas transgressed?
so what did adam do? he disobeyed God sand it made us sinners.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
what is sin?
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
what lawwas transgressed?
let's look at cain
what did the Lord tell cain?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
why is the Lord telling cain about sin, cain must knew about the law.
what is sin?
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
what lawwas transgressed?
cain knew the law!!
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We are to rest in Him and rely on Him for rest not our own works. That I what I believe the moral of the Sabbath Law is about.
how do you rest in Jesus on the sabbath?
are you aware that you are saying that we are to keep the sabbath.
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If the laws change does that mean God made a mistake in the beginning? No it does not we modify laws all the time we either remove or add restrictions because the situation changes. I think the keep word to inlude here with God is New Covenant wich means some modifications are in order. Did God change His mind? No, we do not know if God had this planned this way from the very beginning of time. His ways are above our own.
the laws have not changed nor modified.
Jesus said
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
and Jesus said
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
there is no change in Jesus
now lets look at the New and Old convenants.
Old convenant
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.34: And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
New convenant
Heb 8:7: For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8: For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:9: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
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10: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
take a close look watcher
the convenant is made to Israel and Judah
the convenant is the same
there was no change nor modification brother watcher!!
Do to the length of these I have included the link:
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I have put these in my favorite to take a closer look.
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In the Bible are the 10 commandments refered to the Law of Moses as well?
Let read th bible and see who commandments they are.
1: And God spake all these words, saying,2: I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6: And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12: Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13: Thou shalt not kill.
14: Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15: Thou shalt not steal.
16: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ---, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Ex34v
27:
And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
28: And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water.
And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.Deut 4v
12:
And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
13:
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
14:
And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.
so now who Laws are they.
but if you are not convinced read this and tell me is this Jesus or Moses
Jms 4:12 There is
one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?