QUOTE (FreedomPower @ Aug 2 2008, 07:15 PM)
And whoever believes the fantasies of a 3 year old is even more gullible. I could memorize all the planets and all the satellites and equally make some fantastic story, aside from that where is the evidence? If there was an interplanetary war there should be some remnants of radiation or energy traces or at least the destruction of a civilization if ever it existed on Mars.
Silly, it isn't based on mere "belief", one must cross-examine what the 2 year old boy conveyed with ancient text. Once this is done then it becomes apparent that there is a synchronicity of data:
"In various kinds of Asian and South Asian texts, we find references to flying machines and aerial vehicles. Chinese and Indian stories tell of peoples or individual artisans who constructed devices for travelling through the air. The stories take many different forms, including quite fanciful romances. Others present a picture of inventors taking pains to understand the basic principles of flight, and crafting machines of wood to achieve this goal."
- Dr. Benjamin B. Olshin, "Mechanical Mythology: Private Descriptions of Flying Machines as Found in Early Chinese, Korean, Indian, and Other Texts" (draft copy)
The word vimana is purportedly derived from vamana: "he who is able at three strides to take measure of the entire earth and heavens."
"In the Vedic literature of India, there are many descriptions of flying machines that are generally called vimanas. These fall into two categories: (1) manmade craft that resemble airplanes and fly with the aid of birdlike wings, and (2) unstreamlined structures that fly in a mysterious manner and are generally not made by human beings. The machines in category (1) are described mainly in medieval, secular Sanskrit works dealing with architecture, automata, military siege engines, and other mechanical contrivances. Those in category (2) are described in ancient works such as the Rg Veda, the Mahabharata, the Ramayana, and the Puranas, and they have many features reminiscent of UFOs."
- Richard L. Thompson, Alien Identities - Ancient Insights into Modern UFO Phenomena
"One time while King Citaketu was traveling in outer space on a brilliantly effulgent airplane given to him by Lord Vishnu, he saw Lord Siva..."
"The arrows released by Lord Siva appeared like fiery beams emanating from the sun globe and covered the three residential airplanes, which could then no longer be seen."
- Srimad Bhagasvatam, Sixth Canto, Part 3
"The so-called 'Rama Empire' of Northern India and Pakistan developed at least fifteen thousand years ago on the Indian sub-continent and was a nation of many large, sophisticated cities, many of which are still to be found in the deserts of Pakistan, northern, and western India. Rama...was ruled by 'enlightened Priest-Kings' who governed the cities.
"The seven greatest capital cities of Rama were known in classical Hindu texts as 'The Seven Rishi Cities'. According to ancient Indian texts, the people had flying machines which were called 'vimanas'. The ancient Indian epic describes a vimana as a double- deck, circular aircraft with portholes and a dome, much as we would imagine a flying saucer. It flew with the "speed of the wind" and gave forth a 'melodious sound'. There were at least four different types of vimanas; some saucer shaped, others like long cylinders ('cigar shaped airships')."
- D. Hatcher Childress, "Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology"
In The Anti-Gravity Handbook
"An aerial chariot, the Pushpaka, conveys many people to the capital of Ayodhya. The sky is full of stupendous flying-machines, dark as night,but picked out by lights with a yellowish glare."
- Mahavira of Bhavabhuti
(A Jain text of the eighth century culled from older texts and traditions)
"The Vedas, ancient Hindu poems, thought to be the oldest of all the Indian texts, describe vimanas of various shapes and sizes: the 'ahnihotra-vimana' with two engines, the 'elephant-vimana' with more engines, and other types named after the kingfisher, ibis and other animals."
- D. Hatcher Childress, "Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology"
In The Anti-Gravity Handbook
"Now Vata's chariot's greatness! Breaking goes it,
And Thunderous is its noise,
To heaven it touches,
Makes light lurid [a red fiery glare], and whirls dust upon the earth."
- Rig-Veda
(Vata is the Aryan god of wind.)
"Taoist tales often tell of adepts or immortals flying through the air. The xian were immortals capable of flight under their own divine power. They were said to be feathered, and a term that has been used for Taoist priests is yu ke, meaning 'feathered guest'. The fei tian, which might be translated as 'flying immortals', also appear in early tales, adding to the numbers of airborne beings in the Chinese mythological corpus."
"The Chinese tales of fei che, flying vehicles, exhibit the first understanding, perhaps, that humans would fly only with some kind of technological apparatus. A hymn written in the second century B.C. speaks of deity appearing in chariots drawn by flying dragons."
- Dr. Benjamin B. Olshin, "Mechanical Mythology: Private Descriptions of Flying Machines as Found in Early Chinese, Korean, Indian, and Other Texts" (draft copy)
(2) The Mahabharata
"The more typical vimanas had flight characteristics resembling those reported for UFOs, and the being associated with them were said to possess powers similar to those presently ascribed to UFO entities. An interesting example of a vimana is the flying machine which Salva, an ancient Indian king, acquired from Maya Danava, an inhabitant of a planetary system called Taltala."
- Richard L. Thompson, Alien Identities - Ancient Insights into Modern UFO Phenomena
"The cruel Salva had come mounted on the Saubha chariot that can go anywhere, and from it he killed many valiant Vrishni youths and evilly devastated all the city parks."
- Mahabharata
"The Mahabharata, a poem of vast length and complexity, achieved its present form in the second century A.D."
- Reader's Digest Mysteries of the Unexplained
"It is significant that Salva asked for a vehicle that could not be destroyed by Devas, Asuras, Gandharvas, Uragas, or Raksasas. These are all powerful races of humanoid beings that were openly active on the earth or in its general environs in Salva's time, and so naturally he wanted to be able to defend himself against them.
"Salva's vehicle is described as an iron city, and thus it must have been metallic in appearance and quite large....Many Vedic vimanas are described as flying cities, and one is reminded of the very large 'mother-ships' that are sometimes discussed in UFO reports."
- Richard L. Thompson, Alien Identities - Ancient Insights into Modern UFO Phenomena
"The airplane occupied by Salva was very mysterious. It was so extraordinary that sometimes many airplanes would appear to be in the sky, and sometimes there were apparently none. Sometimes the plane was visible and sometimes not visible, and the warriors of the Yadu dynasty were puzzled about the whereabouts of the peculiar airplane. Sometimes they would see the airplane on the ground, sometimes flying in the sky, sometimes resting on the peak of a hill and sometimes floating on the water. The wonderful airplane flew in the sky like a whirling firebrand - it was not steady even for a moment."
- Bhaktivedanta, Swami Prabhupada, Krsna
"An Air Force RB-47, equipped with electronic countermeasure (ECM) gear and manned by six officers, was followed by an unidentified object for a distance of well over 700 mi. and for a time period of 1.5 hr., as it flew from Mississippi, through Louisiana and Texas and into Oklahoma. The object was, at various times, seen visually by the cockpit crew as an intensely luminous light, followed by ground-radar and detected on ECM monitoring gear aboard the RB-47. Of special interest in this case are several instances of simultaneous appearances and disappearances on all three of these physically distinct 'channels', and rapidity of maneuvers beyond the prior experience of the air crew."
- July 17, 1957 sighting reported in the journal Astronautics and Aeronautics
"It is significant that Salva dropped such things as snakes, stones, and tree trunks from his vimana. There is no mention of bombs, and it would seem that even though Salva possessed a remarkable flying machine, he did not have the kind of aerial weapons technology used in World War II. He did, however, have a quite different technology, which could be used to affect the weather and produce whirlwinds, thunderbolts, and hailstones."
- Richard L. Thompson, Alien Identities - Ancient Insights into Modern UFO Phenomena
There is this account by the hero Krishna that is suggestive of more modern weapons. As he takes to the skies in pursuit of Salva:
"His Saubha clung to the sky at a league's length...He threw at me rockets, missiles, spears, spikes, battle-axes, three-bladed javelins, flame-throwers, without pausing....The sky...seemed to hold a hundred suns, a hundred moons...and a hundred myriad stars. Neither day nor night could be made out, or the points of compass."
- The Mahabharata
Later, when Saubha becomes invisible, Krishna relates:
"I quickly laid on an arrow, which killed by seeking out sound, to kill them...All the Danavas [troops in Salva's army] who had been screeching lay dead, killed by the blazing sunlike arrows that were triggered by sound."
- The Mahabharata
"But the Saubha itself has escaped the attack, and at last Krishna hurls against it his 'favorite fire weapon', a discus having the shape of the 'haloed sun'. Severed in two by the impact, the aerial city falls down.
"Salva himself is killed, and with his death this episode of The Mahabharata comes to an end."
- Reader's Digest Mysteries of the Unexplained
In another episode the fearful Agneya weapon, "a blazing missile of smokeless fire" is unleashed by the hero Adwattan.
"Dense arrows of flame, like a great shower, issued forth upon creation, encompassing the enemy....A thick gloom swiftly settled upon the Pandava hosts. All points of the compass were lost in darkness. Fierce winds began to blow. Clouds roared upward, showering dust and gravel.
"Birds croaked madly...the very elements seemed disturbed. The sun seemed to waver in the heavens. The earth shook, scorched by the terrible violent heat of this weapon. Elephants burst into flame and ran to and fro in a frenzy...over a vast area, other animals crumpled to the ground and died. From all points of the compass the arrows of flame rained continuously and fiercely."
"Gurkha, flying in his swift and powerful Vimana, hurled against the three cities of the Vrishnis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as the thousand suns rose in all its splendour...An iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death, which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas....The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. The hair and nails fell out; pottery broke without apparent cause, and the birds turned white....After a few hours all foodstuffs were infected.... To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment..."
- The Mahabharata
"It would seem that The Mahabharata is describing an atomic war! References like this one are not isolated; but battles, using a fantastic array of weapons and aerial vehicles are common in all the epic Indian books. One even describes a vimana-Vailix battle on the Moon! The above section very accurately describes what an atomic explosion would look like and the effects of the radioactivity on the population. Jumping into water is the only respite.
"When the Rishi City of Mohenjodaro was excavated by archaeologists in the last century, they found skeletons just lying in the streets, some of them holding hands, as if some great doom had suddenly overtaken them. These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on a par with those found at Hiroshima and Nagasaki."
"Futhermore, at Mohenjo-Daro, a well planned city laid on a grid, with a plumbing system superior to those used in Pakistan and India today, the streets were littered with 'black lumps of glass'. These globs of glass were discovered to be clay pots that had melted under intense heat! "
- D. Hatcher Childress, "Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology"
In The Anti-Gravity Handbook
There is another account of such a weapon:
"Cuka, flying on board a high-powered vimana, hurled on to the triple city a single projectile charged with all the power of the universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame, as bright as ten thousand suns, rose in all the splendor... When the vimana returned to Earth, it looked like a splendid block of antimony resting on the ground."
- Mausola Purva
An Examination of the Technology
(1) The Dreamlike Quality of Vimanas
"O King, this beautifully decorated airplane had been manufactured by the demon Maya and was equipped with weapons for all types of combat. It was inconceivable and indescribable. Indeed, it was sometimes visible and sometimes not. Seated in this airplane under a beautiful protective umbrella and being fanned by the best of camaras, Maharaja Bai, surrounded by his captains and commanders, appeared just like the moon rising in the evening, illuminating all directions."
- Swami Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta, Srimad Bhagavatam
"The Vedic universe is described as a product of maya, or illusion, and it can be thought of as a universal virtual reality system.....The role of the computer is played by a fundamental energy called pradhana. This energy is activated by an expansion of the Supreme known as Maha-Visnu, who acts as the universal programmer. Thus activated pradhana produces subtle forms of energy, and these in turn produce gross matter."
"Uma, the wife of Lord Siva, is also known as Maya Devi, or the goddess in charge of the illusory energy. She is also the Mother Goddess who has been worshipped all over the world by many different names. Since Siva is Uma's husband, he is the master of illusion and technology. Thus there is a natural connection between Lord Siva, who Salva approached to obtain his vimana, and Maya Danava, the master of illusion who manufactured it."
- Richard L. Thompson, Alien Identities - Ancient Insights into Modern UFO Phenomena
Many of properties of the vimanas bring to mind the ephemeral nature of UFO's and their seeming ability to defy the conventional laws of physics. Carl Jung has remarked on the dreamlike quality of UFO's, and somewhere, amidst the observation of bright lights and lost time, the delineation between objective and subjective consciousness appears to break down.
"Our research has found extensive similarities between UFO encounters and religious and metaphysical mysticism, folklore, shamans' trances, migraine attacks, and even the operations of the creative imagination. Among the similarities are recurrent image-constants, a basically consistent sequence of events, and the unusual "peak experience" quality common to all. Also, very bizarre incidents in abduction reports have parallels in these phenomena. For example, the embarrassingly incredible "bodily dismemberment" sometimes reported by abductees is a regular feature of shaman's "death-rebirth" trances."
- Alvin H. Lawson
Do the vimanas represent an ancient technology that utilizes the forces of nature (such as transient geophysical electrical fields) to effect human consciousness and alter the perception of reality? Certainly there have been rumors of psychotronic devices, such as those reported tested in the "M" Triangle area west of Moscow.
"There exists a natural phenomenon whose manifestations border on both the physical and the mental. There is a medium in which human dreams can be implemented, and this is the mechanism by which UFO events are generated, needing no superior intelligence to trigger them This would explain the fugitivity of UFO manifestations, the alleged contact with friendly occupants, and the fact that the objects appear to keep pace with human technology and to use current symbols."
- Jacques Valleé
An early UFO report in 1929 (18 years before Kenneth Arnold filed his famous report which lead newspapers to coin the term "flying saucers") may be instructive. In a valley in between Mongolia and Tibet, a team of Norwegians and sherpas had just completed building a shrine dedicated to Shambhala. (To Tibetan lamas, Shambhala [which means "quietude"] is a secret place of enlightenment in the northern mountains.)
"On August fifth - something remarkable! We were in our camp in the Kukunor district not far from the Humboldt Chain. In the morning about half-past nine some of our caravaneers noticed a remarkably big black eagle flying over us. Seven of us began to watch this unusual bird. At this same moment another of our caravaneers remarked, 'There is something far above the bird'. And he shouted in his astonishment. We all saw, in a direction from north to south, something big and shiny reflecting the sun, like a huge oval moving at great speed. Crossing our camp the thing changed in its direction from south to southwest. And we saw how it disappeared in the intense blue sky. We even had time to take our field glasses and saw quite distinctly an oval form with shiny surface, one side of which was brilliant from the sun."
- Nicholas Roerich, Altai-Himalaya
According to a lama, the shiny oval was a "Radiant form of Matter" from Shambhala. It was, he said, a protecting force that was always near but could not always be perceived. In Tibetan Buddhist belief "matter is a development of thought, crystallized mental energy".
"What we are today comes from our thoughts of yesterday, and our present thoughts build our like of tomorrow; our life is the creation of our mind."
- The Dhammapada
Students are taught to mentally visualize their tutelary god which slowly takes on the same quasi-reality as a phantom monk. Under experienced control such ephemeral creations of the mind, or tulpas, can take many different forms such as man, animal, tree, rock, etc.
"Once the tulpa is endowed with enough vitality to be capable of playing the part of a real being, it tends to free itself from its maker's control....Tibetan magicians also relate cases in which the tulpa is sent to fulfill a mission, but does not come back and pursues its peregrinations as a half-conscious, dangerously mischievous puppet. The same thing, it is said, may happen when the maker of the tulpa dies before having dissolved it."
- Alexandra David-Neel, With Mystics and Magicians in Tibet
(2) Indian Technological Data
"There are ancient Indian accounts of manmade wooden vehicles that flew with wings in the manner of modern airplanes. Although these wooden vehicles were also called vimanas, most vimanas were not at all like airplanes. "
- Richard L. Thompson, Alien Identities - Ancient Insights into Modern UFO Phenomena
"According to ancient Sanskrit texts found a few years ago by Westerners in a South Indian temple, vimanas were open topped flying devices, not strictly UFOs since they were restricted to the Earth's atmosphere. Dr. Roberto Pinotti is an Italian scientist, and on the 12th of October 1988 was a speaker in the World Space Conference in Bangalore, India. He referred to several Hindu texts and pointed out that Indian gods and heroes fought in the skies using piloted vehicles armed with weapons. These weapons consisted of seven different types of mirrors and lenses which were used for offensive and defensive purposes. The 'Pinjula Mirror' offered a form of 'visual shield' preventing the pilots from 'evil rays', and the weapon named 'Marika' was used to shoot enemy aircraft. Dr. Pinotti said that these weapons 'do not seem to be too different from what we today call laser technology'.
"The vehicles themselves were made of special heat absorbing metals, called 'Somaka, Soundalike and Mourthwika'. According to Dr. Pinotti, the 'principles of propulsion as far as the descriptions were concerned, might be defined as electrical and chemical, but solar energy was involved as well.' Other scientists have put forward the theory that the craft were driven by some sort of mercury ion propulsion system. Dr. Pinotti concluded that the fact that vimanas were written about hundreds, perhaps even thousands, of years ago, plus that they resembled modern UFOs would suggest that India had a '...superior but forgotten civilisation. In the light of this, we think it will be better to examine the Hindu texts and subject the descriptive models of vimanas to more scientific scrutiny'."
- Nick Humphries, "UFO Guide"
"The Puspaku Car, that resembles the sun and belongs to my brother, was brought by the powerful Ravan; that aerial and excellent car, going everywhere at will, is ready for thee. That car, resembling a bright cloud in the sky, is in the city of Lanka."
- Ramayana
"According to the Dronaparva, part of the Mahabarata, and the Ramayana, one vimana described was shaped like a sphere and born along at great speed on a mighty wind generated by mercury. It moved like a UFO, going up, down, backwards and forwards as the pilot desired. In another Indian source, the Samar, vimanas were 'iron machines, well-knit and smooth, with a charge of mercury that shot out of the back in the form of a roaring flame'. Another work called the Samaranganasutradhara describes how the vehicles were constructed. It is possible that mercury did have something to do with the propulsion, or more possibly, with the guidance system. Curiously, Soviet scientists have discovered what they call 'age-old instruments used in navigating cosmic vehicles' in caves in Turkestan and the Gobi Desert. The 'devices' are hemispherical objects of glass or porcelain, ending in a cone with a drop of mercury inside."
- D. Hatcher Childress, "Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology"
In The Anti-Gravity Handbook
"G. R.. Josyer, director of the International Academy of Sanskrit Research in Mysore, India, stated on September 25, 1952, that Indian manuscripts several thousands of years old dealt with the construction of various types of aircraft for civil aviation and for warfare.
"The specific manuscript on aeronautics included plans for three types of vimanas (aircraft), the Rukma, Sundara, and Shakuna. Five hundred stanzas of an ancient text treat of such intricate details as the choice and preparation of metals which would be suitable for various parts of vimanas of different types."
"There were eight chapters...that provided plans for the construction of aircraft that flew in the air, traveled under water, or floated pontoon-like on the water's surface. Some stanzas told of the qualifications and training of pilots."
- Brad Steiger, Worlds Before Our Own
"Indeed, there are a remarkable number of stories which involve the construction of flying machines. Within some of these stories, we find an interesting clue as to their possible source. In another set of eleventh-century narratives, the Brihat Kath_ Álokasamgraha, carpenters are involved in the attempt to construct a flying vehicle. When asked by Rumanavat to build a machine which can fly, they reply that such aerial devices are only known to the Yavanas, i.e., the Greeks.
"This is repeated again in the same story, with the suggestion that it is kept as a secret by them. Another romance, the 'Deeds of King Harsha', from the seventh century, speaks of a flying machine made by a Greek who had been taken prisoner. Laufer notes that the term for the aerial machine in this tale is 'a mechanical vehicle (yantray_na) which travels on the surface of the air'."
Clive Hart, The Prehistory of Flight (Berkeley, 1985) "chronologically lists references in various Western texts to flying machines [pp.195-197 et ff.] It is notable that most of these early references to flight in these sources involve the use of man-made wings. There are no discussions of more complex man-carrying aerial vehicles as we found in the Chinese, Korean, and Indian tales."
- Dr. Benjamin B. Olshin, "Mechanical Mythology: Private Descriptions of Flying Machines as Found in Early Chinese, Korean, Indian, and Other Texts" (draft copy)
(3) Chinese and Korean Flying Devices
The earliest written Chinese account of flying machines describes them as taking place in remote antiquity. The following selections are from Dr. Benjamin B. Olshin, "Mechanical Mythology: Private Descriptions of Flying Machines as Found in Early Chinese, Korean, Indian, and Other Texts", which I am able to quote with the kind permission of the author.
"The Chi Kung people were good at making mechanical devices for killing [all kinds of] birds. They could also make aerial carriages which, with a fair wind, traveled great distances. In the time of the emperor Thang [mid-second millennium B.C.], a westerly wind carried such a car as far as Yüchow, whereupon Thang had the car taken to pieces, not wishing his own people to see it. Ten years later there came an easterly wind (of sufficient strength), and then the car was reassembled and the visitors were sent back to their own country, which lies 40,000 li beyond the Jade Gate."
- Chang Hua, "Po Wu Chih" ('Record of Investigation of Things') in the Po Wu Chih
Like the devices described in the Indian Brihat Kath_ Álokasamgraha, Chinese flying machines are often described as being made of wood and fly according to straightforward (although not understood) mechanical principles. The following accounts also postdate the spread of Hellenistic culture.
"On the southern peak of Tian Lau mountain, a long time ago, Lu Ban carved some wood into a crane which then flew 700 li. Later, the bird was placed on the west peak of the northern mountain. Emperor Wu [157-87 B.C.] ordered his people to go take it, but then it flew back to the southern peak. Often, when it looks like it is about to rain, then the bird's wings begin to move, flapping as if it is about to fly."
- Shu I Chi
"By the third century A.D., we read of people constructing a flying vehicle."
- Dr. Benjamin B. Olshin, "Mechanical Mythology: Private Descriptions of Flying Machines as Found in Early Chinese, Korean, Indian, and Other Texts" (draft copy)
"Some use the inner part of the jujube [=date] tree to make a flying vehicle, using ox leather straps fastened to encircling blades, so as to propel this machine. Some others have the idea of making five snakes, six dragons, and three oxen [these are kites in the shape of these animals] encounter the 'hard wind', and so ride it (i.e., the vehicle), rising up 40 li. [That region] is called the Tai Qing ('Area of Upper Air'). In the Tai Qing region, the air is very hard, and can lift people. The Master says that a yuan [this word can mean 'kite' or 'hawk'] flying, spiraling higher and higher, only needs to straighten out its two wings and not flap them any more to move forward, because it is riding on the hard wind. The dragons when they first rise up, step on the clouds, going to 40 li [altitude], then fly by themselves. This account comes from the [Taoist] adepts, and is recounted, being handed down to ordinary people, yet the common people are not really able to understand it."
- Ko Hung (A.D. 283-343), Pao Pu Tzu
"...The picture we get of the device is quite ambiguous, with ox leather straps somehow tied to a circle of swords or blades, or blades [moving?] around. The motion of the blades, though, is never really clearly described in the passage, nor is the overall configuration of the vehicle. We are left with the nonetheless interesting fact that there is a description of a mechanical device intended for flying."
"This is precisely what is relevant in these stories to the historian of science: the fact that a romantic tale or story should employ a mechanical device and at times even include a description of its construction or function. This fact does not necessarily mean that the stories contain elements of fact, or actual records of some now-lost technology."
- Dr. Benjamin B. Olshin, "Mechanical Mythology: Private Descriptions of Flying Machines as Found in Early Chinese, Korean, Indian, and Other Texts" (draft copy)
The Koreans have accounts of similar flying machines, although of much more recent derivation.
"There is another story related to these [ways of naming]. Jung Pyung Goo was the inventor of an airplane in Choson [Korea]. During the Im Jin War [between Korea and Japan, 1592-1597], when Jin Joo fortress was in danger, he rescued his friend by an airplane, flying 30 miles away, and then landing. The spinning top with which children play, 'Ping Goo', whirls around on the ground as it is whipped by them, and then lifts up into the air. This is like Jung Pyung Goo's riding of the airplane, moving up and down. So the name 'Pyung Goo' was given [to the top], changed to 'Ping Goo'."
- Kwon Tokkyu in a 1923 Korean text
Where were such machines manufactured?
"Several thousand of li from China, in what is today Russia... it is said that the people were able to manufacture wheels for a flying machine. Each flying machine required four wheels in all. Furthermore, legend has it that they were able to fly one thousand li in one day. The people of Xi Wu [?] also produced a flying machine, and utilizing a bellows [usually] used in smelting, a pulley hauling device, and other methods, enabled the flying machine to move. The machine was able to float in the air and move freely and without obstacle on rivers or land. During the dangerous times of war and turmoil, this vehicle could be used to ward off attacks from the enemy."
- Yi Kyu Gyong, "A Discriminating Look at the Possibilities of Flying Machines" in A Compilation of Previously Uncollected Texts from Throughout the World
"What caused the creation of this separate category of 'technical myths' is not entirely clear. One what might well ask why the some of the stories ever entered into discussions of machines at all. Why didn't stories of winged beings and levitating immortals simply continue? Why did this separate category of humans in flying machines arise? Perhaps there is a connection to the development of kites, which occurred at a period in China preceding many of these tales of 'aerial carriages'. Kites gave people a view of flight made practical: structures made of bamboo, wood, cloth, and paper, man-made devices actually airborne. There are even stories of kites large enough to hold individuals, a not implausible scenario."
- Dr. Benjamin B. Olshin, "Mechanical Mythology: Private Descriptions of Flying Machines as Found in Early Chinese, Korean, Indian, and Other Texts" (draft copy)
Ancient Atomic Knowledge?
"The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth--men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air--for I am grieved that I have made them." Genesis 6......
Gurkha,
flying a swift and powerful vimana
hurled a single projectile
Charged with all the power of the Universe.
An incandescent column of smoke and flame
As bright as the thousand suns
Rose in all its splendour...
a perpendicular explosion
with its billowing smoke clouds...
...the cloud of smoke
rising after its first explosion
formed into expanding round circles
like the opening of giant parasols...
..it was an unknown weapon,
An iron thunderbolt,
A gigantic messenger of death,
Which reduced to ashes
The entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.
...The corpses were so burned
As to be unrecognizable.
The hair and nails fell out;
Pottery broke without apparent cause,
And the birds turned white.
After a few hours
All foodstuffs were infected...
...to escape from this fire
The soldiers threw themselves in streams
To wash themselves and their equipment.
Ancient verses from the Mahabharata: (6500 B.C.?)
INTRO
"Thirteen nuclear reactors existed in "prehistoric" periods along the 200-metre mine bed at Oklo --it was discovered in 1972, and they were comparable to the modern nuclear reactor in power and heat combustion.
This mine had the capability of enabling self-sustained nuclear chain reactions". This discovery shocked the entire scientific community back in 1972---but hold on,-- we'll get back to this later.
As we look at a bit of what is being called evidence of ancient atomic warfare (or simply atomic explosions),and possible ancient atomic knowledge I think its important to make a distinction. (Here I'm speaking to Believers).
It is important that we can establish through available evidence some seen on other pages here-- that: the Bible does in fact mention dinosaurs, that man and dinosaurs co-existed as the Bible would indicate; that DNA is proof of a creator, that the worldwide flood of Noah did happen, and that the world was created in one week as the Word says.
It's not that every believer needs to have these things proven, but it is at least interesting to know that there is scientific evidence that supports the Bible.
In the case of this examination of ancient atomic capability, there is no Biblical principle, doctrine or account that we need to support. Christians, as far as I can see have no stake in this one way or the other. We believe we have established on other pages here that there were pre-flood civilizations unaccounted for in traditional science.
We have pondered the question of the technological sophistication of these pre-flood civilizations. Atomic warefare or atomic capability would be another indication of this sophistication and little else. It may be that if it existed it was part of the wickedness that God saw, as referenced by the quote from Genesis 6 at the top of this page. The most interesting story on these pages is the absolutely true story of the Oklo mines on Page 2 of this section. To be fair, I'd have to label some of the other stories about nuclear craters and irradiated cities as speculative.
On the other hand, I personally would enjoy the consternation that would result among materialists/evolutionists, if it could be proven that this technology did in fact previously exist. It would be very difficult to fit that knowledge into the current paradigm, wouldn't it?
As for believer's such a confirmation could only bolster our confidence that when we say to materialists that "there are things in Heaven and earth that are not dreamed of in your philosophy", that that is proving truer every day.(Perhaps ancient weapons capability was why some were living in caves in the first place--with mobile art on the walls as technically proficient as the best art of the Renaissance).
My take is then is that there are some interesting things to consider, and that we should just take a look at it and form a conclusion. It may well be that we will reject all of the "evidence" or merely some of it. It's certainly worth a couple of minutes of our no doubt valuable time to give a look.
The "evidence" will largely fit in four categories. 1)Descriptions in what are thought to be the oldest written texts by man still in existence. 2)Discovery of archeological sites which demonstrate characteristics, including high levels of radiation, consistent with an atomic explosion and)3)physical evidence (changes in the sand) similar to those found at the site of current day atomic explosions.4)Bingo! Evidence of depleted uranium with plutonium products!
Atomic Explosions Produce Glass
The following item appeared in the New York Herald Tribune on February 16, 1947 (and was repeated by Ivan T. Sanderson in the January 1970 issue of his magazine, Pursuit):
When the first atomic bomb exploded in New Mexico, the desert sand turned to fused green glass. This fact, according to the magazine Free World, has given certain archaeologists a turn. They have been digging in the ancient Euphrates Valley and have uncovered a layer of agrarian culture 8,000 years old, and a layer of herdsman culture much older, and a still older caveman culture. Recently, they reached another layer of fused green glass. It is well known that atomic detonations on or above a sandy desert will melt the silicon in the sand and turn the surface of the Earth into a sheet of glass. But if sheets of ancient desert glass can be found in various parts of the world, does it mean that atomic wars were fought in the ancient past or, at the very least, that atomic testing occurred in the dim ages of history?
This is a startling theory, but one that is not lacking in evidence, as such ancient sheets of desert glass are a geological fact. Lightning strikes can sometimes fuse sand, meteorologists contend, but this is always in a distinctive root-like pattern.
These strange geological oddities are called fulgurites and manifest as branched tubular forms rather than as flat sheets of fused sand.
Therefore, lightning is largely ruled out as the cause of such finds by geologists, who prefer to hold onto the theory of a meteor or comet strike as the cause. The problem with this theory is that there is usually no crater associated with these anomalous sheets of glass.
Brad Steiger and Ron Calais report in their book, Mysteries of Time and Space, that Albion W. Hart, one of the first engineers to graduate from Massachusetts Institute of Technology, was assigned an engineering project in the interior of Africa. While he and his men were travelling to an almost inaccessible region, they first had to cross a great expanse of desert.
"At the time he was puzzled and quite unable to explain a large expanse of greenish glass which covered the sands as far as he could see," writes Margarethe Casson in an article on Hart's life in the magazine Rocks and Minerals (no. 396, 1972).
She then goes on to mention: "Later on, during his life he passed by the White Sands area after the first atomic explosion there, and he recognized the same type of silica fusion which he had seen fifty years earlier in the African desert."
Interestingly, Manhattan Project chief scientist Dr J. Robert Oppenheimer was known to be familiar with ancient Sanskrit literature. In an interview conducted after he watched the first atomic test, he quoted from the Bhagavad Gita: "'Now I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds.' I suppose we all felt that way."
When asked in an interview at Rochester University seven years after the Alamogordo nuclear test whether that was the first atomic bomb ever to be detonated, his reply was, "Well, yes, in modern history." David Hatcher Childress in Nexus magazine
LIBYAN DESERT GLASS
Pieces of Libyan Desert Glass weighing as much as 16 pounds are found in an oval area measuring approximately 130 by 53 kilometers. The clear-to-yellowish-green pieces are concentrated in sand-free corridors between north-south dune ridges.
The origin of this immense deposit of glass has been attributed by some to ancient nuclear explosions and alien activities, but investigating scientists have always been satisfied with a meteor-impact hypothesis.
A recent study (abstract below) also opts for this explanation, although no one has found a crater of suitable size or other supporting evidence.
Science Frontiers On Line
Re: More on Libyan Desert Glass
by Gerhard Mehle
February 1998
Libyan Desert Glass is found widely scattered over an area 130 km north to south by 53 km east to west.
The Libyan Desert of Egypt is one of Earth's most remote and inhospitable regions. Uninhabited, windblown and foreboding, the Sand Sea, near the Gilf Kebir Plateau, was nonetheless the site of a remarkable discovery in 1932.
The Egyptian Desert Surveys under the able direction of Englishman Patrick A. Clayton (1896-1962) recovered specimens (about 50 kg) of an unusual, often beautiful, translucent to transparent, yellowish-green gem-like, high silica natural glass.
The Area Where The Glass Is Found
After the 1932 discovery of Libyan Desert Glass, only two other expeditions (both of the 1930's) were undertaken to the location until 1971.
This latter exploration involved three scientists stopping over for only two hours and collecting some 24 samples of the glass. During this brief visit, the expedition accidentally found the site of a forced landing of an Egyptian aircraft with the remains of nine men.
The failure of Egyptian authorities to find the downed airplane for over three years is solemn validation of the remoteness of this arid region. In light of the foregoing, it is perhaps remarkable that a greater abundance of Libyan Desert Glass has been made available recently for collections and study than at any time since its discovery 65 years ago.
Libyan Desert Glass is classified by most meteoriticists with the group of curious natural glasses known as tektites. In 1900, Professor Franz E. Suess of Vienna coined the term tektite from the Greek tektos meaning "melted or molten."
Tektites are compositionally restricted, high silica, natural glasses distinguishably different from other, volcanically derived, natural glasses. Tektites range in size from microscopic (less than 1mm) to macroscopic weighing many kilograms.
They exhibit a marvelous range of colors from water clear, gem quality, deep forest greens of moldavites to the soothing pale to dark yellow and yellow-greens of Libyan Desert Glass as well as the stygian, impenetrable black of Australites.
Mankind has wondered about, and cherished, these enigmatic, exotic objects for hundreds of years, perhaps much longer. In the Cro-Magnon Venus of Willendorf site (Austria), dated at 29,000 BC, small moldavite flake blades were found (now lost!).
The earliest written records come from mid-10th century China referring to the black, shiny objects found after rainstorms as lei-gong-mo, "inkstones of the thunder-god". Australian Aborigines called Australites ooga, "staring eyes". The origin and source of tektites remains a mystery.
This Libyan Glass Object was Found in King Tut's Tomb
... in relation to all other tektite groups, Libyan Desert Glass exhibits a noteworthy number of unique attributes.
Lowest refractive index: 1.4616
Lowest specific gravity: 2.21
Highest silica content: 98%
Highest lechatelierite particles: fused quartz
Highest water content: 0.064%
Highest viscosity: almost 6X greater than Australites at the same temperature Other unique attributes: Color, Bubble types: 100% of included bubbles are lenticular or irregular.
..There is no evidence whatsoever, of atmospheric aerodynamic shaping and it is therefore presumed that Libyan Desert Glass formed as a melt sheet of some sort, possibly by meteoritic impact some 28.5 millions years ago. Recent French studies concluded that meteoric elements in the glass, of almost chondritic proportions, "points to an impact origin".
Interestingly, the inclusion of the high number of lechatelierite (fused quartz) particles in Libyan Desert Glass also points to an extremely high, up to 1700 C, formation temperature. Impacts of large bodies at high velocity are certainly capable of creating such high temperatures.
But, the central issue in determining the impact origin of tektites remains, that is, how to transform a mass of crushed rock into a homogeneous and relatively bubble free liquid which rapidly cools to a glass.
Even the commercial production of glass takes many hours to relieve the melt of its volatile components. No partially melted material, or target rock inclusions, have ever been found in Libyan Desert Glass.
Furthermore, other known impact glasses (impactites) such as Darwin Glass are bubbly, frothy, scoriaceous and contain partially melted materials. So the controversy continues.
This file shared with KeelyNet courtesy of Bryant Stavely. Excerpt from the World Island Review, January 1992.
Evidence of Ancient Atomic Knowledge? ...PAGE 2
Scientists Discover Six Ancient Zones of Depleted Uranium with Plutonium Products
Here at s8int.com, we smell a rat. Below in an article entitled "Oklo, An Unappreciated Cosmic Phenomenom", "science" has applied several of its tried and true methodologies to "orthodoxize" that which otherwise would be a very strange and startling occurrence.
If you could go back and read the news and scientific articles at the time, you could contrast the shock, dismay and confusion caused by the initial announcement that nuclear material had been mined in the past and that the byproduct plutonium had been created at Oklo, --with the blase way the exlanation for the phenomenon is presented today.
In 1972, a French analyst named Bougzigues working at the Pierrelatte nuclear fuel processing plant detected a small but significant change in an important ratio between Uranium 235 and Uranium 238. The proper ratio is well known and well established in that field so that the change indicated that something way out of the ordinary was going on.
The initial suspicion was that someone had included spent fuel in with the recently mined ore. This was quickly ruled out because there was no radiation signature associated with the mystery uranium..
The mystery uranium was eventually traced back to the Gabon mine at Oklo. You need to understand that what was so incredible was that a nuclear reaction had occurred such that plutonium was created and that the nuclear reaction itself had been “moderated”! This means that once a reaction is initated, if you want to harness the power output in a controlled manner, you had better be able to keep it from exploding and releasing all the energy at once.
This particular group of reactors was, incredibly moderated using --water. The first modern nuclear reactors used graphite and cadmium rods to moderate their reactions. .
At that time, people were speculating about aliens and advanced ancient civilizations. Some months after the discovery rocked the scientific world, someone came up with a somewhat dubious explanation which over time has taken on the patina of absolute certainty. It was a natural reactor which occurred billions of years ago.
There are at least six zones of depleted uranium (usually means mined)with plutonium as a by product! You've got to really be trying to manufacture plutonium--its a complicated process.
Yet,scientists studying these zones have A Prori of course, decided not to consider that man was involved.
1)They place its occurrence safely "billions" of years ago. 2)They assume that a breeding reaction could occur naturally when no such evidence of that exists and creating a breeder reactor was once a technological holy grail which was diificult to achieve on purpose 3)They theorize that although it must have happened naturally in the distant past, that we need not worry about it occurring now, as conditions differ.4)Nature designed the reactor such that its spent fuel and dangerous byproducts were "contained".
Scientists use the principal of uniformism to draw conclusions about the future and the past. If they cannot use this "principle", then they can not draw any conclusions because they could not state that the conditions in the universe that exist now, always existed.
Here though as often happens, they have to assume that the past was vastly different as it related to the possibility of naturally occurring breeder reactions.
Again, scientists from other countries were skeptical when first hearing of these natural nuclear reactors. Some argued that the missing amounts of U-235 had been displaced over time, not split in nuclear fission reactions. "How," they asked, "could fission reactions happen in nature, when such a high degree of engineering, physics, and acute, detailed attention went into building a nuclear reactor?"
Perrin and the other French scientists concluded that the only other uranium samples with similar levels of the isotopes found at Oklo could be found in the used nuclear fuel produced by modern reactors. They found that the percentages of many isotopes at Oklo strongly resembled those in the spent fuel generated by nuclear power plants, and, therefore, reasoned that a similar natural process had occurred.
Another View of the Phenomenon
"Surprisingly, this uranium mine's nuclear reactor was well designed. Studies indicate that this reactor was several miles in length. However, for such a huge nuclear reactor, the thermal impact to its environment was limited to 40 meters on all sides. Even more astonishing is the fact that the radioactive wastes have still not migrated outside the mine site. They are held in place by the surrounding geology.
Faced with these findings, scientists consider the mine to be a "naturally occurring" nuclear reactor. The Oklo reactor has been documented for its importance as an analogue (a structural derivative of a parent compound) in the disposal of nuclear fuel wastes. But few people are bold enough to go one step further.
As a matter of fact, many people today know that the reactor is a relic from a prehistoric civilization. It's probable that two billion years ago there was a fairly advanced civilization living at a place now called Oklo.
This civilization was technologically superior to today's civilization. Compared to this huge "natural" nuclear reactor, our current nuclear reactors are far less impressive. The question is: why did such a highly advanced civilization disappear? That's something to ponder about.
The textbook of Basic Radioactive Chemistry (C. Claire ed.) used by Tsinghua university has the following paragraph: "The natural uranium in the Oklo mine in Gabon, West Africa, contains an abnormal amount of U235. It is as low as 0.29%, rather than the normal 0.72%. This means that many self-sustained nuclear fission chain reactions took place at this mine about two billion years ago.
Thirteen nuclear reactors existed in prehistoric periods along the 200-metre mine bed, and they were comparable to the modern nuclear reactor in power and heat combustion. This mine had the capability of enabling self-sustained nuclear chain reactions...." This discovery, that shocked the entire scientific community in 1972, has already been forgotten by people today."..Pure Insight.org
OKLO: AN UNAPPRECIATED COSMIC PHENOMENON
"In 1972, French scientists discovered that several natural concentrations of uranium ore had become critical and flared up some "2 billion" years ago at Oklo, Gabon.
The concentration and configuration of the natural uranium and surrounding materials at that time had been just right to sustain fission.
In fact, the analysis of the nuclear waste in the burned rocks demonstrated that plutonium had also been created. This implies that natural breeder reactors are also possible, raising the possibility of hitherto unappreciated, long-lived heat sources deep in the earth, in the other planets, and inside some of the stars.
Don't worry that the Oklo phenomenon might occur today on the earth's surface. The concentration of fissionable U-235 has fallen considerably in the last 2 billion years due to its radioactive decay. But, deep inside the earth and other astronomical bodies, nuclear criticality might still be possible due to different pressures, densities, etc.
In a stimulating and generally overlooked paper in Eos, J.M. Herndon proffers four important natural phenomena that may involve natural fission reactors.
Geomagnetic reversals. In the deep earth, where pressures and densities are high, natural nuclear reactors may generate intermittent bursts of heat -- just as they did at Oklo -- and thereby cause the earth's dynamo to falter and reverse. Planetary heating. Jupiter, Saturn, and Neptune emit much more energy than they receive from the sun. Natural nuclear reactors could be the reason.
Stellar thermonuclear ignition. Astronomers assume that the high temperatures required to ignite the thermonuclear reactions powering stars come from gravitational collapse, but this source does not seem adequate to some scientists. Nuclear fission reactors could ignite stars just as they do H-bombs.
Missing matter.
Natural nuclear reactors are finicky. There may be many star-sized, non-luminous objects out there that were never ignited and that we cannot see through our telescopes.
Science Frontiers Online
Evidence at Mohenjo-Daro
When excavations of Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro reached the street level, they discovered skeletons scattered about the cities, many holding hands and sprawling in the streets as if some instant, horrible doom had taken place. People were just lying, unburied, in the streets of the city.
And these skeletons are thousands of years old, even by traditional archaeological standards. What could cause such a thing? Why did the bodies not decay or get eaten by wild animals? Furthermore, there is no apparent cause of a physically violent death.
These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on par with those at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. At one site, Soviet scholars found a skeleton which had a radioactive level 50 times greater than normal.
Other cities have been found in northern India that show indications of explosions of great magnitude. One such city, found between the Ganges and the mountains of Rajmahal, seems to have been subjected to intense heat. Huge masses of walls and foundations of the ancient city are fused together, literally vitrified! And since there is no indication of a volcanic eruption at Mohenjo-Daro or at the other cities, the intense heat to melt clay vessels can only be explained by an atomic blast or some other unknown weapon.The cities were wiped out entirely.
While the skeletons have been carbon-dated to 2500 BC, we must keep in mind that carbon-dating involves measuring the amount of radiation left. When atomic explosions are involved, that makes then seem much younger.
Giant Unexplained Crater Near Bombay
Another curious sign of an ancient nuclear war in India is a giant crater near Bombay. The nearly circular 2,154-metre-diameter Lonar crater, located 400 kilometres northeast of Bombay and aged at less than 50,000 years old, could be related to nuclear warfare of antiquity.
No trace of any meteoric material, etc., has been found at the site or in the vicinity, and this is the world's only known "impact" crater in basalt. Indications of great shock (from a pressure exceeding 600,000 atmospheres) and intense, abrupt heat (indicated by basalt glass spherules) can be ascertained from the site. David Hatcher Childress in Nexus Magazine:
"The crater is formed in the basalt rock of thickness 600-700m (2,000 to 2,200 feet). This rock is made of many layers or flows which were laid why volcanic activity at various times, five of such flows are exposed at the crater rim. Thickness of these flows ranges from 5 to 30m.
The crater is about 150m (500 feet)deep and has average diameter of 1830m (1.4 miles). The elevated rim consists of 25m of bedrock and 5m of ejecta over it. This ejecta blanket is spread over about 1350m (4,400 feet) away from the crater rim and slopes away by 2-6°. The uppermost region of ejecta contains the deposits that were melted due to the impact"....http://www.iiap.res.in/outreach/lonar.html
“Lonar is a place of obscurities, especially as the only meteoric crater formed in basaltic terrain. It has remained relatively intact due to low degree of erosion by environmental agents, making it an excellent model for study. However, several strange things happen here:
1. The lake has two distinct regions that never mix - an outer neutral (pH7) and an inner alkaline (pH11) each with its own flora and fauna. You can actually do a litmus paper test here and check this for yourself.
2. There is a perennial stream feeding the lake with water but there seems to be no apparent outlet for the lake’s water. And it is also a big unsolved mystery where the water for the perennial stream comes from, in a relatively dry region like Buldhana. Even in the driest months of May and June, the stream is perpetually flowing. Lonar generates questions and more questions”. Lilyn Kamath
A Nuclear Catastrophe in Paleoindian Times?
Introduction. We introduce here a remarkable theory of terrestrial catastrophism that seems to be supported by evidence that is equally remarkable. One of the authors of this theory (RBF) is identified as a nuclear scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley Nuclear Laboratory.
The second author (WT) is a consultant. The authors' credentials seem so good that we must take a close look at their extraordinary claims concerning a natural phenomenon that they believe reset radiocarbon clocks in north-central North America and---potentially---elsewhere on the planet.
We will be most interested in the reception accorded these claims by the scientific community.
The claims.
In the authors' words: Our research indicates that the entire Great Lakes region (and beyond) was subjected to particle bombardment and a catastrophic nuclear irradiation that produced secondary thermal neutrons from cosmic ray interactions.
The neutrons produced unusually large quantities of ^239 Pu and substantially altered the natural uranium abundances (^235 U/^238 U) in artifacts and in other exposed materials including cherts, sediments, and the entire landscape.
These neutrons necessarily transmuted residual nitrogen (^ N) in the dated charcoals to radiocarbon, thus explaining anomalous dates.
Some North American dates may in consequence be as much as 10,000 years too young. So, we are not dealing with a trivial phenomenon!
Supporting evidence.
Four main categories of supporting evidence are claimed and presented in varying degrees of detail.
#Anomalously young radiocarbon dates in north-central North America. Example: the Gainey site in Michigan. [Other map sites include Thedford & Zander, Ont.; Potts, NY; Shoop, Penn.; Alton, Ind.; Taylor, Il.; Butler & Leavitt, Mich.; and far to the north Grant Lake, Nunavut; and in the far southwest Baker, N.M. - TWC]
#Physical evidence of particle bombardment.
Example: chert artifacts with high densities of particle-entrance wounds.
#Anomalous uranium and plutonium abundance ratios in the affected area.
#Tree-ring and marine sediment data.
The authors claim that the burst of radiation from a nearby supernova, circa 12,500 years ago, not only reset radiocarbon clocks but also heated the planet's atmosphere, melted ice sheets, and led to biological extinctions.
If verified, the claimed phenomenon would also "reset" archeological models of the settlement of North and South America. To illustrate, we may have to add as many as 10,000 years to site dates in much of North America!
(Firestone, Richard B., and Topping, William; "Terrestrial Evidence of a Nuclear Catastrophe in Paleoindian Times,"
*The Mammoth Trumpet*, 16:9, March 2001. Cr. C. Davant III. This off-mainstream journal is published by the Center for the Study of the First Americans, 355 Weniger Hall, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR 97331-6510.)
Comment. Thus we add another potential cause of an often-hypothesized 12,500-BP catastrophe that is said to have changed the world's history. Competing theories involve asteroid impact, volcanism, a Venusian side-swipe, etc.
BECAUSE THEY HAVE
(what most of us feel)