pointus
Jul 30 2008, 04:48 PM
Check out the following. Which of these would be acceptable behaviour today and why?
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.
(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
Neal
Jul 30 2008, 04:55 PM
There's 1 slave-owner in the New Testament that we know is saved: Philemon. It's a little book in the Bible, near Revelations.
His slave was named Onesimus, who was also a Christian.
His Glory is a Rainbow
Jul 30 2008, 05:26 PM
Pointus,
Below is my response to you from your post yesterday. You are looking at human morals from a human perspective. You are neglecting to consider the eternal perspective. If you ever give up the human perspective, and with an open, sincere heart look at things from an eternal perspective, you will see that God is fair and just with all people (check out the beattitudes in Matthew 5).
From yesterday:
Pointus,
I think your name here is interesting. Point ....us.... You seem to want us to point you in the right direction. And we are doing the best we can and will continue to in this reply. Is it possible the problem here is on your side, such as you do not have the right heart to hear?
The Word of God cannot be broken; it says so. It will break you (either into believing while you are still alive, or into damnation if you die unbelieving). We are like flour going through the sieve of His Word. In order to gain Godly wisdom, (in order to go though the sieve and begin to see the beauty of Him) the flour chunks must be broken down into smaller and smaller pieces. Those who are too puffed up and refuse to be broken up will not go through the sieve to the glorious understanding of His Word. The rest break their minds being banged around until time runs out.
That being said, I'll deal more closely with your issue of slavery. It does not matter where you are placed in the world, or what your position is, either master or slave, what matters is that you come to know Him while you still have the opportunity. There is no place you could be on this earth, no position you could be in that would prevent you from seeing and knowing Him!
Ro 1:20 -
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
DON'T TRY TO CRACK HIS WORD to prove others should not have faith, or in order for you to begin to have faith! You cannot do it. No human can! He (God) is sooooooo far beyond you that a comparison would be laughable. It is ridiculous to think that you can understand the inscrutable. Check out the ending of Job 38 -42 for how ridiculous it is to have that attitude.
Job:
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the storm. He said: 2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? 3 Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.
4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone-- 7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy? 8 "Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb, 9 when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness, 10 when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, 11 when I said, 'This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt'?
12 "Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place, 13 that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? 14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment. 15 The wicked are denied their light, and their upraised arm is broken. 16 "Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep? 17 Have the gates of death been shown to you? Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death? 18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth? Tell me, if you know all this. 19 "What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside? 20 Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings? 21 Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years! 22 "Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail, 23 which I reserve for times of trouble, for days of war and battle? 24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed, or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?
25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain, and a path for the thunderstorm, 26 to water a land where no man lives, a desert with no one in it, 27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland and make it sprout with grass? 28 Does the rain have a father? Who fathers the drops of dew? 29 From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens 30 when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen? 31 "Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades? Can you loose the cords of Orion? 32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs? 33 Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set up God's dominion over the earth? 34 "Can you raise your voice to the clouds and cover yourself with a flood of water? 35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way? Do they report to you, 'Here we are'? 36 Who endowed the heart with wisdom or gave understanding to the mind? 37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds? Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens 38 when the dust becomes hard and the clods of earth stick together? 39 "Do you hunt the prey for the lioness and satisfy the hunger of the lions 40 when they crouch in their dens or lie in wait in a thicket? 41 Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God and wander about for lack of food?
The point I am making to you (Point...Us) is you that you must have a right heart (sincerely desiring God), as well as, "eyes to see and ears to hear" in order to make progress out of the pit that you are currently in. Ask Him to help you if you really want help; you cannot help yourself. You can do nothing by yourself; you need Him.
It does not matter if you are moral or immoral; if you do not have the covering of Christ (salvation) when you encounter Him face to face, you'll go to eternal damnation. That may seem like blah, blah, blah to you, and not very concerning if you ridicule Christian beliefs, but if you really think logically about the size of the universe and the power of it, compared to you (nothing in comparison); looking the creator of all that in the face will be truely scary.
I recommend you get a transcript (or check it out on itunes) of Jonathon Edwards (he lived during the Great Awakening) sermon "Sinners in the hands of an angry God."
You must approach Him with the "fear of the Lord"...or in other words, Godly reverence.
You are in a Bad condition. If you were just in for death, you may not be too scared (because once your done, your done), but ETERNAL damantion is scary because it will NEVER be over. Think this over....well...
One other thing I must mention about your post regarding the circular reasoning of Bible and believing. Look at what is available for hope in ths world. There is NONE except the gospel. Try it out, research it all, try to live on your own understanding...when it all breaks down, come back to the truth. He'll have you when you get to the end of yourself. And you will get there, He has set up the system to drive you to that point....
You'll acknowledge Him either willingly (and be saved), or if your unwilling now, you'll acknowledge Him face to face at the judgement (followed by seperation eternally....)
Enough said!