Turn your bible to Deut 22:

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her,
24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,
29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.


If you were the victim of rape, would you want to marry your attacker and stay with him for the rest of his life?

If you were a parent, would you accepts money from the rapist of your daughter?

Would you stone a victim of rape to death?


How do the above compare with the way victims of rape are treated in enlightened societies today?
As bad as it is, in which tradition (biblical or modern) would you have been treated better as a victim of rape?
Is the bible a good book?

Can I remind all poster of what Jesus said in Matthew 5: 17-22 "I do not come to abolish the law, but to fulfil it . . . ". When Jesus made references to "the scriptures", what documents was he refering to, given the New Testament did not exist at the time. Please, posters, in answering my questions, keep in mind these two reference questions.

Many thanks

a raped girl is not stoned.........as per bible..........it's not her sin..........the rapist is stoned

if she claims that she was raped near other people (in town),,,,,,,,,she is stoned, because she could have yelled for help, and people would have run to help her...........her claim that it was non-consensual is not believable, since she could have yelled for a rescue.

if she claims that she was raped in the field, away from other people (no-one nearby to help her), the girl is assumed to be innocent.............

if the man is known to be a rapist, he is stoned.........but it takes 2 or 3 witnesses to prove a thing

if 2 people consented to pre-marital sex, they must marry, unless the girl's Dad vetoes it.

the OT way is far better than the "modern" pagan way...........
and
the NT way is far better than the OT way.

in NT times, we are not required to obey some of the old Law of Moses rules............but we are required to study the OT and learn from it.

Thank God with live in Grace and not law now.

Excellent answer, dennis.

The Lord knows the heart.

Your first reference vss 23, 24 as rape is absurd. She was in the city. As such her cries of rape would have been heard, regardless of how faint. The Lord presumes the innocence of the woman as the vss 25, 26, 27 that you do not quote show.

Israel was to put evil away! The Lord indeed knows the heart.

28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

A fine of 50 shekels of silver (probably in addition to the dowry) was to deter men from such a vicious act as rape. The man was bound to marry her, and never to divorce her, it didn’t matter how much she was below him, and how unpleasing she might afterwards be to him.

As the Word points out in the biblical world of 1000BC, Tamar (King David's daughter) was very unpleasing to Amnon after he had raped her:

2 Samuel 13
10 And Amnon said unto Tamar, Bring the meat into the chamber, that I may eat of thine hand. And Tamar took the cakes which she had made, and brought them into the chamber to Amnon her brother.
11 And when she had brought them unto him to eat, he took hold of her, and said unto her, Come lie with me, my sister.
12 And she answered him, Nay, my brother, do not force me; for no such thing ought to be done in Israel: do not thou this folly.
13 And I, whither shall I cause my shame to go? and as for thee, thou shalt be as one of the fools in Israel. Now therefore, I pray thee, speak unto the king; for he will not withhold me from thee.
14 Howbeit he would not hearken unto her voice: but, being stronger than she, forced her, and lay with her.
15 Then Amnon hated her exceedingly; so that the hatred wherewith he hated her was greater than the love wherewith he had loved her. And Amnon said unto her, Arise, be gone.
16 And she said unto him, There is no cause: this evil in sending me away is greater than the other that thou didst unto me. But he would not hearken unto her.

Tamar wanted to be married to Amnon – after he raped her. She considered it more evil to send her away - than the actual rape.

The law was FULLFILLED in Christ. Some day we will understand that fully.

Your questions:

in NT times,
un-believers don't live by bible-rules...........they live under secular law, and they "should" live by their conscience.
and
they are condemned (to death) already, before they rape, since they have not believed the bible


Christians don't rape and sin, because we "love our neighbor" with christian love, and we "fear" God............if we rape, we lose our salvation (which is SPIRITUAL DEATH).......

1 Cor 9;27

I see I didn't answer your thread's title question:

If You Were Raped, How Much Money Would You Require To Marry The Rapist?

Another trick question on your part. If I were being raped, I would do everything (unto my death) to make sure that he does not rape again. As I yell out, he would have to cover my mouth. In doing so he has freed one of my arms, with which I would use to either pluck his eyes out or castrate him with my bare hand. There would be no small commotion on my part. Money is not an option. You'll notice I do not kill him. He merely will not be able to see women again - or to use his male-anatomy to rape a woman again.

this should not even be on this forum or members responding to what the op has leff hear for us to respond to

i ask any member before responding think hard to what you are about to say to what the op has left and pray that nothing sticks to you

you are gods children he has his hands on us

we live in a world that is changing


my fiancee who is a filapino pastor got threatend by this one guy who cant see that she does not want nothing to do with him she told him about me and she told him that he needs to back off he sent two of his mates and the warning she got scared not just me but the members who belong to the church and her family a warning went back to him and he was told if he persues this he wil be arrested and thrown in jail


men that rape inocent women are animals and men who target virgins and rape them dont care for the person or her family

it also leaves a wound to the point were some end up killing them selves


back in those days it was tuff for a women and it has shown me that the op does not know what christ did for us on the cross


i can tell you one thing when i was told what this man was tending to do to my fiancee i was ready to hop on the next plane and deal with him my way no forgiving no praying and asking god to convict him i wanted to kill him

i nearly killed a drug dealer until god convicted me


he is aware that i know what he was planning to do and he has been told to avoid my partner and he has been warned not to come no were near our church and he has been told that i wil be in bacolod on the 28th of nov 2008


i wil do what i can to protect my family and i wil not have no family member take on a rapist or wil i have a family member or any one who belongs to my church forgive a rapist '


god tells us what he is going to do with those who go against him and stick to the ways of this world



Jude 1

1 - 5 I want to remind you about what you already know . the lord once saved his people from Eygpt .But on another occasion he destroyed those who didnt believe



1 - 6 He held angels for judgment on the great day . They were held in darkness bound by eternal chains these are the angels who didnt keep their position of authority but abandoned their assigned place



1 - 12 These people are a disgrace at the special meals you share with other believers they eat with you and dont feel ashamed they are shepherds who care only for them selves they are dry clouds blown around by the winds they are withered uprooted trees with out any fruit as a result they have died twice


1 - 15 He has come to judge all the people he has come to convict all these ungodly sinners for all the ungodly things they have done and all the harsh things they have said about him


1 - 16 These people complaine find fault follow their own desire say arogant things and flater people in order to take advantage of them



this is what god wil do with those who reject him harm inocent people and he will deal with the men who go out their way and rape vergins and inocent women

ther are guys out their among us who have no clue and dont care

oh to the op please dont agrue with me or get me to get into a biblical argument with you on what you have left hear for other members to ponder on and respond to

no human being wil do as you stated hear we have laws set that deal with guys who rape women and young girls jail is the only place for a rapist and i can tell you that men who end up raping young girls and the inmates find out his life is over their are fathers serving time in our jails and thes men wil deal with the rapist and pedophile their way

they may have been forgotten but they are human beings and i can tell you they go by their own laws and the gaurds dont step in







God bless from damo

At least you are reading the Bible.

Father , I thank You that we can bring our friend here to You . I pray that You will meet him at his need and start to reveal Yourself to Him. Your Word says: Seek and ye shall find. He is seeking and so shall he be found by You so that he will come to the truth which his heart is seeking. I pray that in Jesus name for him. I know that Your Word says, that if two agree on any matter, it shall be done, so I ask my brothers and sisters here to agree with me on this matter in prayer. We thank you for the salvation of our friend "Pointus"
C

Boy, Abba, You arent letting me off, are you!?

I was once a victum to this, I was raped as a child, I couldnt yell out, nor get help, there wasnt any for me, seeing as it was force on my by those that was ment to protect me. I as raped at 9 and mosasted over and over again, from 5 till I got the strangth to run, I ran the streets and stayed away, as much as I could. I myself hate this, and it took years for me to even talke about it. When I did, those in my family that know that it happened and didnt help than called me a lier. I am still left with no one, and I have a hard time trusting others because of it.

I can see some good out of the out testoment, were others might not. Here is what I see. Rapiest, know somewhat what they are doing is wrong, it pulls at them, and masses with them after words, the one that didnt it to me, came back and asked forgiveness years after, because of the love I showed reaching out to my hole family. He is savied now, he told me that what went through his mind, he said there wasnt a day that didnt go by that it didnt mass with him. He said he was only able to do that deed by not looking at me as a child, nor as family, or any other truth, but as something to control, conqor, as will as feeling this drawing to do that to me. He want to and these feeling started off with porn, that with out parents there was aloud to post every where, there was not control over him, nor teaching on how to treat women, or family. Just this praise and being lead to think he can do what ever he wanted, no harm done, he wasnt ever wrong! Those that do this, can be shown how wrong they are, but I do as others believe they shouldnt be alond to do this again. in the word, the man was made to marry the girl, forcing him to see first hand what his dead has done, as well as forcing him to find the need to change. he wasnt also aloud to ever marry again, as well as not being able to put her way, ever. This was done so that things would be fixed, and changed around, to stop to skile that is being done. See in the story of Termar being raped, if you look back at it, it was their own uncle, Davids brother, one that was looked over by G-d as he looked for the boy that sang to him, that would seek out his heart. This uncle was the man that prevoked Davids son to do the deed, against his Father, inorder to rape one that was ment to be a prise and treated as a child of the king. This man was aloud to be close to the kind, as he was one that was harboring this hate for his own brother, so much that he seeked to harm this child.

There is one thing I hate even more than rape, it is that or that desceves others, leading them to that sin. Porn, that dad making the son feel he has a right to get something, even by force, it is that mother that is so twisted as to lead the son to rape, as if that makes that son more of a man. It is twisted deseption that I hate. Tricking oneself by fanticies until one cant hold it back but is lead into that act that was in side. I believe that also there is those that do this over and over again, because of a spirit as well. I is ment to steal, kill, and destory others.

Nothing was set strate for Tamar, no one take a stand that should have to set things start, and nothign was said of that snake that was sent to Her brother to implant that thought that this act would be ok, that he had a right to do that.

I have got this idea that G-d is leading me into helping others that have gone through this, in many ways. I have seen this, in the dream I had where my own child was attacked. in the dream I was hunting them down, and the rooms I went into I could see, and know all that happened there, not one things was hidding from me, i know where all those that raped went and what they did. I was ment to help and by force. This is by helping others learn to stand once again. how to keep these things from happening again, to teach others that there is a way to treat women, sisters, mothers, daughters, and there are ways not to.

this can be stopped, but as war is done, this needs to be attacked by all sides. starting support groups, so that healing can begin. others sisters need to start telling there little brothers befor the become men, that a true lady is a trasher, not to be treated so, a daughter of the king is a prise, not to be throwen to the groun as if trash. If they would be tought to treat their ladies in their life, focusing on opening doors, we would be able to walk tall right throw.

I start now Abba, help my voice be hard! IN Jesus name! amen!

Very wise words from you again Damo. God bless you brother.

It is interesting that you bring up this subject when I have spoken to one of my children about this concept recently (law/heart of love). My daughter leaves messes all around the house. I spoke to her about them the other day. When I had pointed them all out to her and told her to start, from a heart of love, to do the right thing (she is a teen), she said "just tell me what I shouldn't do." That was the perfect answer for me to explain to her (again) the new covenant in Jesus. I told her that in the OT, God gave the Israelites the law to follow, lots of them. He told them that things would go well for them if they would follow them. Thousands of years passed and they could not do it. Then God sent His Son to do it for us (live perfectly), that which we humans could not do and pay for our sins with His death on the cross. Now, living after the time of Jesus, there is a new covenant, a better one. Instead of don't do this, don't do that, if you do it, this is your punishment, etc...etc...; now we have "love one another". So I don't have to make up a rule for every instance of sin (non-love for family members) in the house, you'll know what is right and wrong and do the right out of a heart of love. It is a higher standard! You might ask, if we (humans) couldn't do that then (the OT), how can we perform the higher standard? The Word would answer:

Mr 10:27 -
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."

John 14:25-27
25 "All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

Joh 20:22 - Show Context
And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

He made the world, He made the law, He lived the perfect life for us, He gives us the power to love. They, the OT didn't have the power within them. We who believe now do, not because we deserve to have it, but because of His grace (the gift of the cross).

This is the very essence of the gospel, the question you asked about (law/heart). When Jesus says that "not one jot or tittle be taken away until the law is fulfilled, it is fulfilled in His death on the cross and your belief (pointus) and is taken away! But remember, it also means that you under the law if you reject grace. If the law offends you, as it clearly does by your question, I suggest grace. You can have grace by merely accepting it. Will you have grace? Grace is reaching out to you....

Peacemaker.....

I love you sweety. God loves you so much.

Actually, I can answer this question without the "If you were" part. I was raped a few years ago and am now very close friends with my rapist, Cameron. And if we were both single and I was his age, I would soo marry him. But, that's me. I don't hold the rape against him anymore. He's totally changed. He married one of his victims, actually. Her name is Sarah and they have two kids together. He's now a hardcore Christian. He's an amazing person, he just happened to screw up a few people's lives with rape. :[

If I had never created a relationship with Cameron, then my answer to this question would be a deffinate NO. But, he found me a few years later and apologize and all that jazz. And a friendship was created there. :]

I'm not sure about the parent part. I mean, I would want something. But, at the same time, I wouldn't because it could be considered disgusting money.

Also, I would never feel as if a rape victim would require stoning. Maybe the man who raped her held his hand over her mouth or made it so that she couldn't yell for help.

Is the Bible a good book? Ehh, I vote no. Sorry, not a Christian. Well, actually some of the Bible is okay and it has some pretty good stories in it. But, most of it is just crazy. No offense.

You rock!

That would be a tough thing to forgive, you should be commended.

Yes, awesome story.

i agree with Damo, this shouldn't even be on the forum...

what kind of insanity is this question? why would you even put this out on
a forum? why would you ask such a casual question? obviously you are extremely
ignorant or insensitive. i let you pick an answer.

forgive me for those that have given testimony here...this is such a sensitive
subject and i don't really thing the question was framed in a caring way.

some of you shared your pearls, and i thank you for recovering some balance to
this otherwise careless thread. i have been in advocacy for years and find that
people that ask these kinds of questions or very immature and looking for
something sensational to hook onto.

i say this, HOOK ONTO JESUS!

Because it's from the Old Testament.

Or in other words, this isn't a Christian forum, but a Judeo-Christian forum.

ALL over the world,

wherever the Bible has had more influence,

the condition of women is better

Wherever the Bible has had less influence,

the condition of women is worse.

That is a fact one can observe for oneself.

No doubt, John!

If damo thinks you should be killed for getting high, you should be certainly be killed for rape or even adultury.

you are thoughtless and tasteless, so is this thread...

to judge Delusional


i dont mind having an enemy so bring it on

hay false one how are you delusional so nice now for you to start leaving these things in an old topic of a delusional member just like your self

hay that was law back in those days may be we should bring in the old testament laws and start stoning people again delusional or i should say little boy you have taken things out of contex and are just being delusional

you should cal your self doubter now have you changed your usser name i wonder what was your origonal usser name as we do have members hear changing their usser names

what did you say to me bring it on


those where the old laws may be i should get the christians in my church to stone me to death as paul was forgiven he did persecute the christians before he was converted

you just dont bother reading what some one says


warning delusional is a fool he is like pointus a lost soul who needs to come before god and let god deal with some hidden things he is avoiding to deal with

delusional is just pushing me because i am pushing for tuffer laws when it comes to the soft laws we have in australia our drug dealers are getting away with lighter sentances were they should be serving life i said to delusional china has the death penality singapore you serve life and when it comes to the philippines they are even more strict




by oh flake one



damo

Signet,

Ah...ummmm...tap of head....smile...my jove I think we got it! Pointus is just look for a reaction (any will do) of those crazy, wacky Christians. Pointus doesn't seem to understand that a thread such as this one could cause much harm and damage to a weak soul that has indeed been raped. Such a person after reading this thread could mentally be reliving the nightmare once again.

I thank all of you that shared your stories of heartaches with us, thank-you.

I also agree with C when he posted, at least Pointus was reading the bible.

Pointus, the Muslim religion still follows the rules in the Old Testament for these sexual sins. Stonings, whippin's, hangings. I am so glad that we are no longer under the law but instead we are given Grace. More hearts can be changed with Grace than by condemnation.

Gods Blessings,

Al

That is an incredible story Ashley. I hope he is truely delivered from that spirit... otherwise he could do it again. Has he ever payed for his crimes? How many other victims were there?

An ex boyfriend did that to me back in the late eighties. Shocked me. I was speechless for a long time afterward. And I couldn't look at him in the same way ever again.

Ooooh, judge not, lest you be judged!

First I would like to say that the word Rape is not a sexual word. It means to basically kidnap.

Second, I agree this is not a decent topic, in fact I think it is not only loaded, but a complete twisting of what the law says in regard to when a man seduces a maid and the trespass offering that is required. There is a world of differance between seduction and the violence of sexual assualt. Lets stick to the scripture when asking questions and not someones personal offense at God or his ways of rectifying an unwise expression of "love" which is nothing more than old fashioned lust.


Exo 22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.


Exo 22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.


Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

All of the laws that are in the scriptures were for the protection and dignity of women because men are basically pigs who can't be relied upon to do the right thing.

The bible says that there must be two or three witnesses to establish a matter.