The Rapture
Posted by brittgillette on April 14th, 2007

In the near future, an unprecedented event of worldwide significance will take place. Jesus Christ will return. In fact, he will return twice. The first time secretly; the second time so that all eyes can see him. The first instance is known as “the rapture,” and it is the blessed hope of all true Christians.

Immediately preceding the seven year period of the Tribulation, Jesus will return for all those who have placed their faith in Him. They will be transformed in an instant, and appear before the throne of God in heaven. Several New Testament passages reference this event. The Apostle Paul mentions it in his first letter to the Corinthians:

“But let me tell you a wonderful secret God has revealed to us. Not all of us will die, but we will all be transformed. It will happen in a moment, in the blinking of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, the Christians who have died will be raised with transformed bodies. And then we who are living will be transformed so that we will never die. For our perishable earthly bodies must be transformed into heavenly bodies that will never die.” 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (NLT)

Why does this event occur? Jesus tells us why: “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world.” Revelation 3:10 (NLT)

Prior to the Tribulation (the “great time of testing”), Jesus will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, accompanied by the call of the archangel and the trumpet call of God. At that time, all those who believe Jesus Christ is Lord, who are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, will be transformed into the spirit and will be caught up into the clouds to dwell forever with the Lord. All this will happen in a “blinking of an eye.” As Paul further describes:

“I can tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet him ahead of those who are in their graves. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. So comfort and encourage each other with these words.” 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (NLT)

Almost everyone has heard of the Second Coming of Christ, but few realize that the Second Coming is divided into two parts: the rapture and the glorious appearing. The glorious appearing will occur at the end of this age, approximately seven years after the rapture. When this happens, every eye on the earth will see the Lord coming, and He will be coming to judge the people of the earth. This is the event Jesus referred to when he said, “in the future you will see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God’s right hand in the place of power and coming back on the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 26:64 (NLT). This will not be an unexpected coming because this event will be preceded by the prophesied events of the Great Tribulation.

However, the rapture is different. It will take the world completely by surprise, and it could happen at any moment. This is the event Jesus described when he said:

“However, no one knows the day or the hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. In those days before the Flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat. People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the Flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes.”

“Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left. Two women will be grinding flour at the mill; one will be taken, the other left. So be prepared, because you don’t know what day your Lord is coming. Know this: a homeowner who knew exactly when a burglar was coming would stay alert and not permit the house to be broken into. You also must be ready all the time. For the Son of Man will come when least expected.” Matthew 24:36-44 (NLT)

The day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night, quickly and unexpectedly. Those who are alert and awake will be caught up into the clouds to be with God; while those are not will be left behind to endure the “great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world.”

As this website attests, this generation will surely see the fulfillment of the end times prophecies of the Bible, including the rapture, the tribulation, and the glorious appearing. Jesus instructed his followers to look for the signs of his coming. In rebuking the Pharisees and Sadducees, he said “You are good at reading the weather signs in the sky, but you can’t read the obvious signs of the time!” Matthew 16:3 (NLT) He was admonishing the religious leaders of his day, and their inability to recognize the time of his coming as foretold in the Old Testament Messianic prophecies. Just as the people of that day refused to recognize the “signs of the times,” we too must be on guard at all times, watching for the signs of his coming.

The most important sign is that Israel is once again a nation. Jesus told his followers:

“Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its buds become tender and its leaves begin to sprout, you know without being told that summer is near. Just so, when you see the events I’ve described beginning to happen, you can know his return is very near, right at the door. I assure you, this generation will not pass from the scene before all these things take place. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will remain forever.” Matthew 24:32-35 (NLT)

The fig tree Jesus refers to is Israel. It’s been six decades since Israel was once again declared a nation against all worldly odds. Jesus promised that the generation which witnessed fulfillment of this prophecy would not die off until all the things of which he spoke came to pass.

The hourglass is running out on this promise, so be alert. Invite Jesus into your heart, and change your worldly perspective into a heavenly outlook. Prepare yourself for His soon return, and you will not be disappointed. For “no eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him.” 1 Corinthians 2:9 (NLT)

...............................................benny

Benny, the rapture is about to occur, but its the second coming, the end of the world. The testing in rev 3 10 is actually the trial , the white throne Judgment, the elect, or the church will be kept from that hour because we are not condemned, we will be rewarded however for the things christ did through us..But this generation will see the 2nd coming of christ..I am almost positive..I am watching and waiting daily, for the trump to sound..the last trump.1 cor 15:

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Yes ,...I agree that the rapture is about to occur. We are running out of time at a very rapid pace.A daughter of mine is coming to see me in the morning, and she has agreed to allow me to prove to her that the Lord is very shortly to catch up His bride....But the "Great White Thrown Judgement is not the same as the "Judgement Seat of Jesus Christ"...............When the Rapture happens,We will immediately be involved in the Bema Judgement to receive our rewards.Or eles how can the Elders cast their crowns before the Lamb?.We will be in the Lord's presence before the very first of many seals are opened..read Revelation 5;9-10
We are already in His presence before Daniels 70th week has begun.
..............................................benny

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

If I may interject and Ask a Question:

As One who was born and raised indoctrinated in Western Judeo Christians theology ( Nazarene affiliation).

After years of Learning the Word, and growing in the Spirit,I sought all scriptural justification for all doctrines, and came to be Lacking, in taught doctrines of Jesus or disciples, which do support the concept, and Justification put forth for Rapture.

Now as a Christians seeking Gods will, in this life, including times of Tribulation, I find not the Justification for Rapture as in the doctrines taught by God and Jesus.

As Scriptures say, and do teach me and all, how to Judge all things, I ask, does Rapture, Edify the Church, or Glorify God, or aid in bringing in the Kingdom? Which Scriptures say all things of and from God, must do one of these things.

Now also, if Peter and Paul were here, Asking and or seeking Rapture: of what benefit to God is this, and of what doctrine?

I submit, if Peter and Paul and Me: were to seek out the times of Rapture, to sacrifice and suffer for the faith, and martyr in the Sight of all men, to Glorify God, and edify the Church, that that would be more unto the Teachings of Christ and God, and Doctrines thereof. Which it is written, Brothers and saints comming out of Great tribulation.

One more thing: I find no foundation or substance that would suggest that, faith or No faith in Rapture, will or does have any relationship unto Ones salvation, of Christ and God.

I ask of where, and of what Scriptures, of taught sound Doctrines, that support the concept of Faithful seeking to be " Raptured" I know of None, except in Conjecture, that God would want it this way. Which is more mans thinking than Gods.

I pray my words do not offend, God bless all Christians in forum, and all those who use it.

The Rapture does give glory to Jesus Christ.Also,If you stop and think about post # 3.....You would have to disprove the statements of my post.Such as,to prove that the people spoken of in revelation 5;9-10 are not the Bride.I have much to reveal to you.But understand this,.....You must understand the whole picture of what is now before us all today....and I do not say that litely.......The Lord made it clear in 1Thessalonians 5;4....That that Day will not come upon us as a thief......................................benny

Total trash. The devil has put you to sleep trusting in the Lies of satan.

You won't be watching and aware because you don't know what to be aware of or what to look out for.

The thief comes to bind the strong man and plunder his goods.

Christ comes and destroys the whole world. He is not coming to take those who have used him as a cloak for sin, to carry them off to heaven, to do all of their abominations in His Fathers sight.

Jesus Christ is coming like a thief in the night to bind the strong man and spoil his goods.
To gather out of His kingdom all things that offend and those who practice lawlessness and cast them and everything they love into the lake of fire.

1 Thessalonians 5
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

Mark 3
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Christ is only coming once.

At his arrival He will resurrect and catch up His saints into the air of earth.

It will happen In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye in a flash of lightning.

No one is going to heaven.

There is no scripture that says anyone is going to heaven.

The going to heaven doctrine is the doctrine of Lucifer.

Check it out.

Isaiah
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Yes it is..



It will happen at the same time, rewards and ppunishment..dan 12:

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.



The seals are open, this is getting ready to happen rev 6:

12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

I appreciate your responding, but I don't understand How massive Christians being found dead, or found abducted and missing is going to Edify the Church or Glorify God.

If I may be direct, I personally from Rapture foundation, could not shake the feeling; that my desire to Be Raptured and Saved from Tribulation, was not a self serving flesh saving desire of my own flesh, and placating the desires thereof, and not being like martyrs, and blood of saints who preceded me, And that God never changes, and yet In rapture it seems I am saying he does, Not wanting Jesus like sacrifices, or Paul, or Peter. And my spirit though the word, also confirmed my fear.

Doctrines of God, teaches that us, that Sacrifice and suffering and being Like Jesus in Spirit, is that which edifies the faith in God for all mankind.

It is the stories of Jesus and the Acts of disciples, upon which the Church and faithful of Christ are rooted.

Its Not by "Might and power", or Rapture miracles, that faith is achieved but by "the Spirit" of God in man; which God shall use to Conquer the Spirit of man.

As I spoke about before, Rapture has Not effect On salvation, reality is, that desires to reject the Rapture could cause Sainthood. Those who might go on, to martyr for the faith, in Great tribulation.

If Rapture is for people all of Faith, Jesus telling the Faithful to " Take Heed" would be to heed something, that we are not even here to Know: if we are Raptured from Tribulation, and Jesus was and is speaking to the faithful always., And prophesies of Tribulation, would not be written for the Faithful to Know since their raptured; but if not us, then Who?

" Those who seek to save their lives, shall surely lose them; but those who freely Give their lives for Christ and the Gospels sake, shall surely save them."

Of course I still cannot see how Rapture Glorifies God, to Me it sounds like it Only Placates the flesh.

What? I can see it now, Old religious Agnes Next Door Just Died and was Raptured to heaven. And all the Crack Addicts repent and Go to Reading the Bible.? unless Rapture is some Kind of Miracle seen by all, Only the funeral directors will praise God for their bounty. or Missing persons, who take on extra part time help.

But Gods not going to use miracles to convince people to believe: Only when he " Comes in his Glory" will all witness Glory and miracles. And by then: its all over, and every thing is already done then. And yet

The time is very near.

I pray my words do not offend; God bless all Christians in forum, and all those who use it.

Reading your post....I think that I understand what you are really getting at. Spiritofprophecy,......The moment before the Lord Jesus Gave up His Life on the Cross of Calvary,....He said the Words..."Paid In Full!
You cannot earn your salvation.It is a gift!Your Hope in Him is what purifies you.Some post tribbers believe that they must go through the tribulation to prove thier selves worthy, as though what Jesus sacrafice on the cross was not enough.In a way, the post tribber would be boasting that he did something to earn his way into heaven.Salvation is a gift.You cannot buy it or earn it.You must except Him by faith.Without faith, it is impossible to please God.............The Lord gave signs so that they might believe................The heavens reveal His glory. Already.You and I and all true christians glorify His name daily.Again,from reading your post, it seems that you do not believe in a pre-trib rapture,and again, I ask you ....can you disprove that revelation 5;9-10 is not the Bride?
I assure you that this is only a tip of the iceburg in revealing a pre-trib rapture..................................benny

Dear Beloved57,.....For you to be correct in the timing of the "Great White Throne Judgement".......The bride could not receive her rewards or crowns until after the end of the millenium reign of our Lord Jesus Christ.In other words,...I spoke correctly when I stated that the Bema Seat and the Great White throne judgement are not one and the same. Your interpretation of Daniel 12 is not correct.It is fascinating that the Bible refers to "many" rather than "all" who sleep in the temporary state we call death. This indicates that others who were dead are already risen, supporting the view of a "rapture" of believers who will be raised into the clouds before the final "day of the Lord."

.................................................benny

Obviously, you are a post tribber.....................with that in mind, I'll ask you a question pertaining to a last day scenerio.

The Great Tribulation had begun byway of a sign called the "Abomination of Desolation".....Alot of christians during those days are being martyred for their faith in Jesus. And now,...1259 days had passed from the time the great tribulation had began...............Dude,...what are the anti-christs armies doing on day 1259,.....and what are the christians doing on this day 1259 ?
Please if you can, go into some detail in describing this endtime scenerio.

.....................................................benny

You will not know when the beginning of the time period for the setting up of the abomination of desolation begins. Especially if you are believing the trash that You posted here. The fact that You used the term "post tribber" means that You either did not read what I posted or you don't have any foundation in Christ.

Here is Scripture that explains what is happening at that time with the Lords sheep and their shepherds, in detail.

And at that day the slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground.
"Wail, shepherds, and cry! Roll about in the ashes, You leaders of the flock! For the days of your slaughter and your dispersions are fulfilled; You shall fall like a precious vessel.
And the shepherds will have no way to flee, Nor the leaders of the flock to escape.
A voice of the cry of the shepherds, And a wailing of the leaders to the flock will be heard. For the Lord has plundered their pasture,
And the peaceful dwellings are cut down Because of the fierce anger of the Lord.


Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste, Distorts its surface And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
The earth mourns and fades away, The world languishes and fades away; The haughty people of the earth languish.
The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants, Because they have transgressed the laws, Changed the ordinance, Broken the everlasting covenant.
Therefore the curse has devoured the earth, And those who dwell in it are desolate. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, And few men are left.

Dude,Looks like you are doing a little dodging and ducking, and trying to play from left field.....Paint the last day scenerio in your own words based solely on the question that I have proposed to you from post # 11.... If you cannot do that, then you should try studying a little more.You have not thrown any scriptures out there that I am not aware of.If you want to debate then let's debate...But do it with a little respect...If you cannot do that. and for some reason you are trying to impress this forum that you are all big, bad and all knowing more than others...then I would suggest that you ask for my address, so that we can pray and lay hands on each other.You see, you say that my statements are trash......I could have said the same for your statements....but it is apparent that my intelligence far exceeds your immature statements.......................Now I ask you again
"what are the anti-christs armies doing on day 1259,.....and what are the christians doing on this day 1259 ?"
.................................................benny

Sound fair enough. PM your address to me.

In the meantime...paint the endtime scenerio in your own words, or is it that you are just all talk....I assure you that I am the real deal.
..........................................benny

I am looking forward to meeting you Benny. You are half a continent away so it will be in the last of July or the first part of august before I can get there.

OK about your question.

The great tribulation begins with the two witnesses of the Lord closing up heaven so that no rain falls on the earth.
On that specific day 1259 days into the two witnesses of the Lord's ministry, The camps of the Lord will be headed through time and space toward Jerusalem and the camps of the devil will be hunting people for food.
But on Day 1260, the two witness of the Lord will walk into the main camp of the devil unnoticed to lay down their life for the Lord. There they will be killed and lay in that street for three and a half days Dead.

disregard

I look forward to this meeting.

Your answer is partly incorrect and partly correct to a point.
The timing of the two wittness is incorrect, but we can debate that one later.

How about that I fill in the blanks for you and then let's see if you agree in your reply.

Scenerio:..Day 1259...."The anti-christ's armies are at battle with the eastern forces ...a battle called Armageddon.Nations from all the earth are all involved.
Any christian that has'nt been martyred is in hiding.If there is anyone eles left on earth that by chance is not fighting at Armageddon, who are not christian,then that would mean that they have the mark of the beast....considering that this would be true,....they at that moment are gnawing thier tongues in pain...(see rev.16;10..................Do you agree with this scenerio?
...........................................benny

The marker for the beginning of all of these days is when the heavens are shut up so that no rain falls on the earth for 1260 days.
The abomination of desolation is fully set up at day 1290. The total separation of what is Christ's and the devil is at day 1290.
The battle of Armageddon happens at the return of Christ at day 1335.

The Saints of the Lord will have been protecting the Lord sheep, throughout the whole great tribulation, with the weapons of the Spirit of God.
The Saints of the Lord will have fed and watered the sheep by the power of the Spirit of God.

No one in Gods camps will lift a hand to strike anyone because the Spoken word in faith is more powerful than an atomic bomb.

About the two wittnesses,...you do not have to reply right away, but the following is just a very small sample revealing that thier ministry begins in the first halh of Daniels 70th week.

......................................benny

What is the third woe? Okay, let's look at the other two woes because the woes are associated with trumpets 5, 6, 7.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Okay, open and shut case that the woes are associated with turmpets 5, 6, 7.

trumpet 5 - Revelation 9:1-12. Verse 9:12 12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

trumpet 6 - Revelation 9:12-21.

trumpet 7 - Revelation 11:15 - till the end when Jesus returns.

But what is the third woe? And how is it associated with the 7th trumpet?

The third woe (Revelation 12:12 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.) is Satan being kicked down here to planet earth for the time, times, and half time. In other words for the second 3 1/2 years.

Since the third woe, which is Satan being kicked down here to earth for the SECOND HALF comes after the two witnesses - then the two witnesses must have their testimony during the FIRST HALF.

How is Satan being kicked down here to earth associated with the sounding of the seven trumpet?

Because it says...Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

What that means is that Mystery Babylon, which is the invisible empire of Satan, the powers and principalities in high places, that is referred to in Ephesians 6, no longer reigns for that cosmic space. Satan has been reduced from being the prince the power of the air. His kingdom overshadowing the earth has fallen has fallen.

So Satan has been kicked down for the second half, his kingdom of Mystery Babylon fallen. He will continue to deceive the nations, which will take the 666 mark, and the Antichrist will persecute the saints during that 3 1/2.

But the second half is also the time that God's wrath will be poured out on the nations as well... for the entire second half. That's why there is no specific end to the third woe, like the other two woes, because the third woe and the seventh trumphet entails the entire second half. Both God's wrath and Satan's wrath... here on earth.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The 7th trumphet encompasses the entire second half. Which also means that since the third woe is after the two witnesses their testimony is during the first half.

You might want to digest that thread I just made on is there an overlap.

The Antichrist MUST be slain and recovered before the AOD is setup in the temple. Which means 1335 days before Jesus Returns.

There is a big time connect between the Antichrist making "war" agains the two witnesses in Revelation 11. And the statement in Revelation 13 about who can make war against the beast? The 42 month reign of the Antichrist comes after he has defeated the two witnesses right at the exact
midpoint... but before they have risen, 3 days later....otherwise that commentary from the world's people won't mean so much.

The three days actually eats into the second 1260 days THAT'S WHY 42 MONTHS IS THE EXPRESSION because it is not exactly 1260 days but 1257 days... but that is getting really detailed for most people to follow IMHO.

So they don't get it, why sometimes exact days are mentioned, and at other times months are referred to, and other places it uses the less precise "time, times, and a half times, and other places it says in the "midst" of the week. Another brother in Christ, a few years back, pointed out to me the importance that some time frames are expressed differently for a reason, i.e. 42 months doesn't necessarily mean exactly 1260 days for example. It has really helped me to note those differences.

3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."

6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

Christ's three and a half year ministry was the first half of Daniels 70th week.

You are making it difficult for me to pin you down.
You quote:..."The battle of Armageddon happens at the return of Christ at day 1335."
Some would object to your statement, but there may be some truth to your statement.....I say that because some Hebrew years have 13 months in them.If I remember, I will turn you on to a video on the forum.
Since you are making this difficult,....I will work with what you have presented.

You quote:..."The marker for the beginning of all of these days is when the heavens are shut up so that no rain falls on the earth for 1260 days."

This statement alone tells a story........Since there is not going to be any rain for 1260 days.....logic would reveal that there will not be any planting, or crops to harvest on the earth during those days...There would be starvation, and people dieing all over the earth.In other words ....Life is not a everyday normal setting as of this moment .
So why am I pointing this out?
Dude,...I am trying to help you see the truth.And I say that sincerely.
When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. In those days before the Flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat. People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the Flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes.”

“Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left. Two women will be grinding flour at the mill; one will be taken, the other left.
The endtime scenerio that you described leaves no room for a scenerio like Noah's day........In other words there is a pre-trib rapture, and there is also a unknown day of His return and a known day.
But there's more to this picture that has not been seen through the eyes of most american christians......But soon...You will begin to understand this.
................................................benny

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

As to your Off thread querry, as to earning Salvation, I quote> " Salvation is a Gift of God and given freely for faith, lest any should boast for works; but faith without works is dead." Jesus said " it is done". which concluded his works, in flesh, which is his role, to end the power of Satan, to accuse man in heaven, Satan being cast down to earth.

Any further comment about, " earning Salvation". which is off thread, and some find as disrespectful to the OP, Original post theme, I would be uncomfortible in addressing further in this thread. I would be happy to espouse on topic in an appropriate thread.

But if My question,; " What Edification of the Church, or means to Glorify God, or aid in bringing in the kingdom; that Rapture does have. Is not common Knowledge, then I am in good company, for I also know not the answer.

I shall then assume that the Rapture faithful, have as much a problem with that question, as I have and do. And unable to in truth to Gods principles and words, find a foundation to support: which goes to the root of my alienation from the Concept of Rapture, which as Scriptures alone, does not have a foundation doctrine taught by Jesus or his disciples. I would love to embrace Rapture, yet Scriptural foundation, which is My power of Spirit foundation, I am Lacking. Personal wishes and desire for Gods will for me: ooo, I am strong in Rapture. Which opens why then are we different, of earlier martyrs, to be Raptured. I am open to God doing with me and all flesh, as he wills, eaten by Lions, or Burning at the Gates, we of flesh are Christs, and belong to God, and he is righteous to do as he so feels is Righteous unto God. That my interpretation of God actions.

Now I agree with: " God would just want it that way". Wow from my fleshly human perspective, that sounds totally plausible, and from a human point of view sounds Godly nice.

Yet, years of spiritual Growth and discernment of differences of Gods way, and mans way: I have come to accept that My Wisdom compared to Gods wisdom, is foolishness; and My wisdom alone, the natural man, discerns Nothing of the true " things of the Spirit".

If Rapture theology bore truth, thoughout history, and is Gods eternal Truth, I find that the past need of Gods will, for the Sacrifices of the Saints, are then Called into Question. If Jesus was all that was needed for Church edification. Salvation yes, But the Church still needs more edification even today. I hope all will agree with that.

And I return to the Question of " God never Changes". if he wanted service and sacrifice by 1st Century of Faith, is it in truth of God then has Changed what was truth then, and not now?

And verses Like, " the greatest gift a man can give; is his life, that another might be saved". Is that not true any more?

My Spirit, comes to teach me that true wisdom of God, is attain when one Humbles himself to all Gods words and truths, And applies the principle of belief, upon " precept upon precept, Line upon line, here a little and there a little".

Which is to say, one Grows in wisdom of Gods precepts and doctrines one small measure truth at a time.

And for the deeper Meat and secret things of God that God reserves for the Faithful:

"Whom shall he teach Knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrines? them that are weaned from the Milk, and drawn from the Breasts."

But as To Rapture personally, I would be Happy if all my beloved brethren of Christ were Caught up to heaven, which I am sure one day it will come to pass. But to claim, We of faith of mantle of Jesus, and disciples, shall see no sorrow, or feel not tribulations of flesh: I would council, that faithful, should hope for rapture, yet prepare for sacrifice and suffering for the faith.

History has taught us, that the faithful, are what Tribulations of men, are the focus of, from Lions, to human burning Cross Light posts, in the arenas of the unfaithful. Its all about us, people, Wheat and the Chaff.

Rapture is a beautiful concept as to our flesh, but faith therein, should be reserved and placed in Jesus alone. At least that is my opinion.

Unless Rapture theology can be Justified in sound taught doctrine, or shown to the Glorification of God, edification of Church, or to aid in bring in the Kingdom, can be pointed too. Its seems, more from man, than the Word.

One may be assured, that Salvation is only determined by Ones faith and walk with Christ. I only council not to be supprised in our walk with Christ, as to Tribulation if it relates to the faithful: which as to Prophesy, and Jesus speaking and warning us about it so much; Would lead me to believe, that Knowledge of such events, are of Meaning to believers. And not meaninless to the Rapture faithful, atleast to Know about, in case.

Where I do err in these Questions, I am open to correction and enlightenment; of any of Spiritual truth.

I pray my words do not offend, God bless all Christians in forum, and all those who use it.

That is an incorrect statement...........Have you come to this conclusion or is your statement a hand me down from someone you admire?
..............................................benny

You quote:..."6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire."

When the two wittnesses strike the earth with plagues......will they need God to add more plagues?Or is the power given them sufficient?

............................................................benny

They are walking in the Spirit of the Lord with His Power, Understanding and knowledge.

Spiritofprophecy,...It seems that you type on and on, and still avoid my question of rev. 5;9-10
I ask you a question;..."Do you believe in 1Thessalonians 4;15,16,and 17 ...at all?....And if you do,....In what time frame do you believe that it will come to past.....If you are a post tribber ...then just say so.
I am just trying to cut thru all the chase.

...............................................benny

But as To Rapture personally, I would be Happy if all my beloved brethren of Christ were Caught up to heaven, which I am sure one day it will come to pass. But to claim, We of faith of mantle of Jesus, and disciples, shall see no sorrow, or feel not tribulations of flesh: I would council, that faithful, should hope for rapture, yet prepare for sacrifice and suffering for the faith


Hey SOP --- If Christ is going to return here to earth, and set up his kingdom,,,why would you be sure one day we would be caught up????? Can I ask where will you be caught up to???? since heaven is coming down here.......

I agree with your statement.
But your still dodging again..........The prior question was with good reason.If you will stop ducking......I'll teach you a few things that are in the scripture that most have failed to see.
................................................benny P.S...Just some advice,....Pay close attention to details.
I ask you the question again.
..........................When the two wittnesses strike the earth with plagues......will they need God to add more plagues?Or is the power given them sufficient?

Unfotunately,...You have no credentials in this topic. You too have avoided the question of revelation 5;9-10
But to give you the benefit of doubt.............Can you disprove that revelation 5;9-10 is not speaking of the Bride? Also take notice that this group of people from all races, are present in heaven.."BEFORE"....Just in case you missed it......."BEFORE" the first seal was opened!
The first seal opened begins Daniels 70th week.
.................................................benny

Dude,...This is for you, but also to anyone who wants to learn the jaw dropping truth.If one is going to see the whole picture, you must see it from the eyes of a jew......Remember;Jesus was a Jew who spoke to the jews things that He knew that they could understand and relate to based on their cultural upbringing and customs.
The video is a little slow in starting and somewhat long,...but the real payoff is near the end.Jesus is Lord and there is none like Him!
There are no words that are worthy that can describe how awesome that He is.
Jesus Christ is coming soon...and I do mean soon!

http://www.elshaddaiministries.us/video/eclipsevideo.html

...........................benny P.S. This is one video that you will never forget all the days of your life.

I am curious as to how one arrives at the conclusion that the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy in the 9th Chapter did not begin with the with the ministry of Jesus and him being cut off in the midst of the 70th week?

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be [b]seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [/b]
This part was fufilled to the letter because the temple took 46 years to build including 2 years delay under Cambysus Son of Cyrus and 1 year delay under Darius the Mede. That takes care of the seven weeks or 49 years. This is recorded in Josephus' Unabridged works.

Then you have 62 weeks or 434 years transpiring from the Dedication of the second Temple to the comming of the Messiah as the transaction of the priesthood took place between him and John. So we have a total of 483 years or 69 weeks.

During the last 1 week or 7 years Jesus ministered for 3.5 years confirming the covenant that was made with Abraham concerning the promised seed and was cut off in the midst of that week.

Basically this is how I understand it seeing that the covenant is mentioned all the way back in the 1st several verses of Chapter 9 and it is refering to God and never changes context throught the entire chapter.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince (Titus) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. What war? Desolations mean more than one act of desolation or de-flowering, to be made empty.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Who confirmed "the covenant" with many for one week?

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

So it is not "a covenent" but it is "The Covenant" that is being confirmed.
JESUS CONFIRMED THE COVENANT WITH ABRAHAM, WITH ISSAC, AND WITH JACOB

Who was it that brought and end to the Levite Priesthood? Who was it that became the daily meat and drink offering?
JESUS!

Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

The sacrifice is meat and the oblation is drink.
JESUS MADE AN END OF THOSE OFFERINGS UNDER THE ORDINANCE OF LEVI
HE IS OUR HIGH PRIEST

JESUS is doing this even unto the consumation of all that is written in the Law, the Prophets, the writings, and the Psalms concerning him and his completed work in his people.

It is a critical error to call the Lord of Glory antichrist or man of sin, which the popluar teachers have done such as Hell Lindsey, the LaLondes, and Jack Van Imp just to name a few. They are the ones who have propogated this false teaching during the last 40 years after having it handed down to them from other fallen heads. They all base the Prophecy in Matthew 24:15 with Daniel 9:27 when Daniel 11:31 is the matching scripture for it because 11:31 is singular and 9:27 is plural.
Perhaps we should start asking why Jesus said to the Jews "behold your house is left unto you desolate."
It was desolate when he got there and it was desolate when he left. It was desolate after Titus sacked it and remained desolate for the last 1900 years. It was desolate when the U.N made it a state and it has continued to be desolate unto this very day.
"Let no man eat fruit off of thee henceforth forever"

hell lindsey,...that's funny
pardon me while i eat my burger and fries and i will get back to you.
.................................benny