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Humble Bob
Okay, this is a Time article that supposes the resurrection of Christ was an unoriginal concept or idea suggested by a stone tablet dated earlier from when Christ was resurrected.


First. I reject the insinuation that the resurrection of Christ is an idea or concept by the hypothesis it is unoriginal simply because a tablet turns up that could have been misinterpreted. And now, with scholars suggesting the tablet's declaration of a resurrection before Christ's suggests Christianity borrowed the concept from another source.

Second. Nothing is mentioned that this tablet could be prophetic to Christ's resurrection.

Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...00.html?cnn=yes

QUOTE
Was Jesus' Resurrection a Sequel?
Monday, Jul. 07, 2008 By DAVID VAN BIEMA / NEW YORK AND TIM MCGIRK / JERUSALEM

A 3-ft.-high tablet romantically dubbed "Gabriel's Revelation" could challenge the uniqueness of the idea of the Christian Resurrection. The tablet appears to date authentically to the years just before the birth of Jesus and yet — at least according to one Israeli scholar — it announces the raising of a messiah after three days in the grave. If true, this could mean that Jesus' followers had access to a well-established paradigm when they decreed that Christ himself rose on the third day — and it might even hint that they they could have applied it in their grief after their master was crucified. However, such a contentious reading of the 87-line tablet depends on creative interpretation of a smudged passage, making it the latest entry in the woulda/coulda/shoulda category of possible New Testament artifacts; they are useful to prove less-spectacular points and to stir discussion on the big ones, but probably not to settle them nor shake anyone's faith.

The ink-on-stone document, which is owned by a Swiss-Israeli antiques collector and reportedly came to light about a decade ago, has been dated by manuscript and chemical experts to a period just before Jesus' birth. Some scholars think it may originally have been part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, a trove of religious texts found in caves on the West Bank that were possibly associated with John the Baptist. The tablet is written in the form of an end-of-the-world prediction in the voice of the angel Gabriel; one line, for instance, predicts that "in three days you will know evil will be defeated by justice."

Such "apocalypses," often featuring a triumphant military figure called a messiah (literally, anointed one), were not uncommon in the religious and politically tumultuous Jewish world of 1st century B.C. Palestine. But what may make the Gabriel tablet unique is its 80th line, which begins with the words "In three days" and includes some form of the verb "to live." Israel Knohl, an expert in Talmudic and biblical language at Jerusalem's Hebrew University who was not involved in the first research on the artifact, claims that it refers to a historic 1st-century Jewish rebel named Simon who was killed by the Romans in 4 B.C., and should read "In three days, you shall live. I Gabriel command you." If so, Jesus-era Judaism had begun to explore the idea of a three-day resurrection before Jesus was born.

This, in turn, undermines one of the strongest literary arguments employed by Christians over centuries to support the historicity of the Resurrection (in which they believe on faith): the specificity and novelty of the idea that the Messiah would die on a Friday and rise on a Sunday. Who could make such stuff up? But, as Knohl told TIME, maybe the Christians had a model to work from. The idea of a "dying and rising messiah appears in some Jewish texts, but until now, everyone thought that was the impact of Christianity on Judaism," he says. "But for the first time, we have proof that it was the other way around. The concept was there before Jesus." If so, he goes on, "this should shake our basic view of Christianity. ... What happens in the New Testament [could have been] adopted by Jesus and his followers based on an earlier messiah story."
Not so fast, say some Christian academics. "It is certainly not perfectly clear that the tablet is talking about a crucified and risen savior figure called Simon," says Ben Witherington, an early-Christianity expert at Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Ky. The verb that Knohl translates as "rise!," Witherington says, could also mean "there arose," and so one can ask "does it mean 'he comes to life,' i.e., a resurrection, or that he just 'shows up?' " Witherington also points out that gospel texts are far less reliant on the observed fact of the Resurrection (there is no angelic command in them like the line in the Gabriel stone) than on the testimony of eyewitnesses to Jesus' post-Resurrection self. Finally, Witherington notes that if he is wrong and Knohl's reading is right, it at least sets to rest the notion that the various gospel quotes attributed to Christ foreshadowing his death and Resurrection were textual retrojections put in his mouth by later believers — Jesus the Messianic Jew, as Knohl sees him, would have been familiar with the vocabulary for his own fate.

Knohl stands by his reading. "The spelling and the phrasing is unique," he told TIME, "but it is similar to to other texts found around the Dead Sea." Yet for now, at least, Gabriel's Revelation must take its place among a slew of recently discovered or rediscovered objects from around the time of Jesus that are claimed to either support or undermine Scripture but are themselves sufficiently, logically or archaeologically compromised to prevent their being definitive. In 2002, a bone-storage box with the legend "James Son of Joseph Brother of Jesus" bobbed up that seemed to buttress Jesus' historicity while at the same time suggest that the Catholic teaching that he had no true brothers was false — but the Israeli Antiquities Authority declared the inscription as a forgery (although various experts continue to disagree). In 2007 the Discovery Channel aired a documentary (funded by Titanic director James Cameron) that purported to have located the "Jesus Family Tomb" in the Israeli suburb of Talpiot, with bone boxes with the names "Jesus Son of Joseph," "Mary" and one of the names of Mary Magdalene. If the ossuaries were for the gospel Jesus, his mother and Mary Magdalene, then the implications for Christianity would be dire; but despite considerable initial hoopla, the idea is regarded by many as speculation.

It remains to be seen whether Gabriel's Revelation, and especially Knohl's interpretation, will weather the hot lights of fame. Even the authors of its initial research seem a little dubious about his claims that it is a dry run for the Easter story. But, as often happens in such cases, they seem better disposed to a slightly toned-down assertion: in this case, that the Gabriel tablet does indicate a very rare instance of the idea that a messiah might suffer — a notion introduced in Judaic thought centuries before by the prophet Isaiah but which supposedly went out of style by Jesus' time. If that more modest theory gains traction, it will forge a link between a trend in first-century Judaism and one of Christianity's galvanizing thoughts — that God might throw in his lot with a suffering or even murdered man — that could contribute to a growing mutual understanding.

BibleScholar
Science is out to debunk the bible. Run for your lives.
sharon
This reminds me of a teenager in the West, who liked to do hallucinagenic mushrooms with his Indian friends. He started a whole religion based on "tablets" he found while under the influence. He even named the books in his own "bible." after those friends.
crownsevenalphabet
QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Jul 7 2008, 10:34 PM) *
Okay, this is a Time article that supposes the resurrection of Christ was an unoriginal concept or idea suggested by a stone tablet dated earlier from when Christ was resurrected.


First. I reject the insinuation that the resurrection of Christ is an idea or concept by the hypothesis it is unoriginal simply because a tablet turns up that could have been misinterpreted. And now, with scholars suggesting the tablet's declaration of a resurrection before Christ's suggests Christianity borrowed the concept from another source.

Second. Nothing is mentioned that this tablet could be prophetic to Christ's resurrection.

Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...00.html?cnn=yes

QUOTE
Was Jesus' Resurrection a Sequel?
Monday, Jul. 07, 2008 By DAVID VAN BIEMA / NEW YORK AND TIM MCGIRK / JERUSALEM

A 3-ft.-high tablet romantically dubbed "Gabriel's Revelation" could challenge the uniqueness of the idea of the Christian Resurrection. The tablet appears to date authentically to the years just before the birth of Jesus and yet — at least according to one Israeli scholar — it announces the raising of a messiah after three days in the grave. If true, this could mean that Jesus' followers had access to a well-established paradigm when they decreed that Christ himself rose on the third day — and it might even hint that they they could have applied it in their grief after their master was crucified. However, such a contentious reading of the 87-line tablet depends on creative interpretation of a smudged passage, making it the latest entry in the woulda/coulda/shoulda category of possible New Testament artifacts; they are useful to prove less-spectacular points and to stir discussion on the big ones, but probably not to settle them nor shake anyone's faith.

The ink-on-stone document, which is owned by a Swiss-Israeli antiques collector and reportedly came to light about a decade ago, has been dated by manuscript and chemical experts to a period just before Jesus' birth. Some scholars think it may originally have been part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, a trove of religious texts found in caves on the West Bank that were possibly associated with John the Baptist. The tablet is written in the form of an end-of-the-world prediction in the voice of the angel Gabriel; one line, for instance, predicts that "in three days you will know evil will be defeated by justice."

Such "apocalypses," often featuring a triumphant military figure called a messiah (literally, anointed one), were not uncommon in the religious and politically tumultuous Jewish world of 1st century B.C. Palestine. But what may make the Gabriel tablet unique is its 80th line, which begins with the words "In three days" and includes some form of the verb "to live." Israel Knohl, an expert in Talmudic and biblical language at Jerusalem's Hebrew University who was not involved in the first research on the artifact, claims that it refers to a historic 1st-century Jewish rebel named Simon who was killed by the Romans in 4 B.C., and should read "In three days, you shall live. I Gabriel command you." If so, Jesus-era Judaism had begun to explore the idea of a three-day resurrection before Jesus was born.

This, in turn, undermines one of the strongest literary arguments employed by Christians over centuries to support the historicity of the Resurrection (in which they believe on faith): the specificity and novelty of the idea that the Messiah would die on a Friday and rise on a Sunday. Who could make such stuff up? But, as Knohl told TIME, maybe the Christians had a model to work from. The idea of a "dying and rising messiah appears in some Jewish texts, but until now, everyone thought that was the impact of Christianity on Judaism," he says. "But for the first time, we have proof that it was the other way around. The concept was there before Jesus." If so, he goes on, "this should shake our basic view of Christianity. ... What happens in the New Testament [could have been] adopted by Jesus and his followers based on an earlier messiah story."
Not so fast, say some Christian academics. "It is certainly not perfectly clear that the tablet is talking about a crucified and risen savior figure called Simon," says Ben Witherington, an early-Christianity expert at Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Ky. The verb that Knohl translates as "rise!," Witherington says, could also mean "there arose," and so one can ask "does it mean 'he comes to life,' i.e., a resurrection, or that he just 'shows up?' " Witherington also points out that gospel texts are far less reliant on the observed fact of the Resurrection (there is no angelic command in them like the line in the Gabriel stone) than on the testimony of eyewitnesses to Jesus' post-Resurrection self. Finally, Witherington notes that if he is wrong and Knohl's reading is right, it at least sets to rest the notion that the various gospel quotes attributed to Christ foreshadowing his death and Resurrection were textual retrojections put in his mouth by later believers — Jesus the Messianic Jew, as Knohl sees him, would have been familiar with the vocabulary for his own fate.

Knohl stands by his reading. "The spelling and the phrasing is unique," he told TIME, "but it is similar to to other texts found around the Dead Sea." Yet for now, at least, Gabriel's Revelation must take its place among a slew of recently discovered or rediscovered objects from around the time of Jesus that are claimed to either support or undermine Scripture but are themselves sufficiently, logically or archaeologically compromised to prevent their being definitive. In 2002, a bone-storage box with the legend "James Son of Joseph Brother of Jesus" bobbed up that seemed to buttress Jesus' historicity while at the same time suggest that the Catholic teaching that he had no true brothers was false — but the Israeli Antiquities Authority declared the inscription as a forgery (although various experts continue to disagree). In 2007 the Discovery Channel aired a documentary (funded by Titanic director James Cameron) that purported to have located the "Jesus Family Tomb" in the Israeli suburb of Talpiot, with bone boxes with the names "Jesus Son of Joseph," "Mary" and one of the names of Mary Magdalene. If the ossuaries were for the gospel Jesus, his mother and Mary Magdalene, then the implications for Christianity would be dire; but despite considerable initial hoopla, the idea is regarded by many as speculation.

It remains to be seen whether Gabriel's Revelation, and especially Knohl's interpretation, will weather the hot lights of fame. Even the authors of its initial research seem a little dubious about his claims that it is a dry run for the Easter story. But, as often happens in such cases, they seem better disposed to a slightly toned-down assertion: in this case, that the Gabriel tablet does indicate a very rare instance of the idea that a messiah might suffer — a notion introduced in Judaic thought centuries before by the prophet Isaiah but which supposedly went out of style by Jesus' time. If that more modest theory gains traction, it will forge a link between a trend in first-century Judaism and one of Christianity's galvanizing thoughts — that God might throw in his lot with a suffering or even murdered man — that could contribute to a growing mutual understanding.





Humble Bob:

This tablet is divine.

And if the news media would allow the Israel Knohl, an expert in Talmudic and biblical language at Jerusalem's Hebrew University . . . to reveal the encoded gematria of the tablet, then it would more than prove it is a divine tablet to affirm Christ . . .


Israel Knohl, an expert in Talmudic and biblical language at Jerusalem's Hebrew University who was not involved in the first research on the artifact, claims that it refers to a historic 1st-century Jewish rebel named Simon who was killed by the Romans in 4 B.C., and should read "In three days, you shall live. I Gabriel command you."


These are my findings, in decoding the encryptic meanings :




87-line tablet


The ink-on-stone document, which is owned by a Swiss-Israeli antiques collector and reportedly came to light about a decade ago, has been dated by manuscript and chemical experts to a period just before Jesus' birth. Some scholars think it may originally have been part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, a trove of religious texts found in caves on the West Bank that were possibly associated with John the Baptist. The tablet is written in the form of an end-of-the-world prediction in the voice of the angel Gabriel; one line, for instance, predicts that "in three days you will know evil will be defeated by justice."


Such "apocalypses," often featuring a triumphant military figure called a messiah (literally, anointed one), were not uncommon in the religious and politically tumultuous Jewish world of 1st century B.C. Palestine. But what may make the Gabriel tablet unique is its 80th line, which begins with the words "In three days" and includes some form of the verb "to live." Israel Knohl, an expert in Talmudic and biblical language at Jerusalem's Hebrew University who was not involved in the first research on the artifact, claims that it refers to a historic 1st-century Jewish rebel named Simon who was killed by the Romans in 4 B.C., and should read "In three days, you shall live. I Gabriel command you."




First, let us look and/or examine the tablet, as a divine timeline that will
confirm/affirm our Christian foundations.

The sacred gematria, of the 1st century Jewish rebel named Simon . . .

Holds the verification I am going to focus on :

The Simon tablet, made sure in his pre-death of 4 B.C., to make sure the tablet held specific lines :

87 lines

Now read why the Simon tablet, made this tablet into 87 lines, to
glorify ' The Everlasting Father ' (87)

http://biblewheel.com/GR/GR_87.asp


87 + The Everlasting Father + I am the Lord


For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful (111) , Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9.6

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 43.10f

Next :

But what may make the Gabriel tablet unique is its 80th line, which begins with the words "In three days" and includes some form of the verb "to live."

If the tablet has the 80th line, concerning the phrase : " In three (3) days "

The reason for this sentence being on the 80th line is as follows :

http://biblewheel.com/GR/GR_80.asp


The Number 80: Yesod / Foundation
As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.

Proverbs 10.25


80 + Foundation + Perfected, Finished + Priesthood + The LORD, Thy Redeemer + Hill


Next :

"In three days, you shall live. I Gabriel command you."


Why Gabriel ?

Well in Hebrew, as you read above, the 80th line of the tablet,
is the Yesod, foundation.

Under Yesod, foundation, is the archangel Gabriel.

Not any other angelic understanding is symbolic of the 80th line of the
tablet, except GABRIEL.

And not any other angel foretold the birth of Messiah, other than
archangel Gabriel.

So the entire tablet is prophetic to the birth, death, resurrection of
Jesus Christ the Messiah.


THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO
ST LUKE
CHAPTER 1

26 And in the sixth month the aangel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a avirgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among awomen.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, aFear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name aJESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the aSon of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the bthrone of his father cDavid:
33 And he shall areign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no bend.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I aknow not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The aHoly Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the bSon of God.


Next :

Remember this excerpt in the article, about the tablet ?

(excerpt)
Some scholars think it may originally have been part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, a trove of religious texts found in caves on the West Bank that were possibly associated with John the Baptist.



Well, start at Saint Luke, chapter 1, and review how John the Baptist is revealed by
the archangel Gabriel . . . also, just as Christ was.

So it is clear, that I am not an expert in translations of Hebrew text.

However, the facts are in this article to unfold why the `media` does not want the
tablet to be after Christ birth.

LET US NOT DISGARD THE VALUE OF THIS TABLET . . .

Why ?


The tablet is written in the form of an end-of-the-world prediction in the voice of the angel Gabriel; one line, for instance, predicts that "in three days you will know evil will be defeated by justice."


note:
This clue, from Gabriel would warrent the Old Testament researchers @forum, to
take a look at all the references to Gabriel involving prophecies of the end times.

Where is Stephen, @forum when we need him ?

`CALLING STEPHEN`, does anyone know how to forward this to Stephen. He understands
the two specific archangels Michael and Gabriel, very well, in reference to scripture.





Humble Bob
Thanks CSA. I have no problem with the tablet as I stated my objection is in the commentary by man who suggests the resurrection of Christ is borrowed from the tablet.

If the tablet is divine then it is prophetic, and Gabriel only prophecized what God had ordained.
crownsevenalphabet
QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Jul 8 2008, 11:16 AM) *
Thanks CSA. I have no problem with the tablet as I stated my objection is in the commentary by man who suggests the resurrection of Christ is borrowed from the tablet.

If the tablet is divine then it is prophetic, and Gabriel only prophecized what God had ordained.



Humble Bob :

I was sincere about the Old Testament prophecies which include archangel Gabriel.

Would you be willing to use this topic and help unfold, what the end time parallel's
are to this message of the tablet, versus scriptures relating to Gabriel ?


gregg
I'm not Stephen, but this is what I think.

But Michael the chief angel, when withdrawing from the traducer, spoke thoroughly about the spirit of laws, not boldly accusing, but said, 'The Lord forbid thee.'

That's Jude 1:9.

See, what you call the devil, the traducer, is death; not a person. Michael is the chief life sent from God. This life inhabited Jesus of Nazareth.

Now, in Daniel 8:16 we are introduced to Gabriel, but Gabriel appeared in visions. On through to Luke 1:19, we see that Gabriel is still prophesying and announced the birth of both John the Baptist and Jesus of Nazareth.

It could be that John the Baptist was Gabriel and Jesus of Nazareth was Michael.

The bible's interpretation of Jude 1:9 is different than mine, of course; it anthropomorphizes the whole situation. But there is one word in the verse that throws their interpretation off and that is the word 'body.' The correct word is spirit. The verse says 'body of Moses,' but the original words are 'soma mashah ,' sound drawing out.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

crownsevenalphabet
QUOTE (gregg @ Jul 8 2008, 12:58 PM) *
I'm not Stephen, but this is what I think.

But Michael the chief angel, when withdrawing from the traducer, spoke thoroughly about the spirit of laws, not boldly accusing, but said, 'The Lord forbid thee.'

That's Jude 1:9.

See, what you call the devil, the traducer, is death; not a person. Michael is the chief life sent from God. This life inhabited Jesus of Nazareth.

Now, in Daniel 8:16 we are introduced to Gabriel, but Gabriel appeared in visions. On through to Luke 1:19, we see that Gabriel is still prophesying and announced the birth of both John the Baptist and Jesus of Nazareth.

It could be that John the Baptist was Gabriel and Jesus of Nazareth was Michael.

The bible's interpretation of Jude 1:9 is different than mine, of course; it anthropomorphizes the whole situation. But there is one word in the verse that throws their interpretation off and that is the word 'body.' The correct word is spirit. The verse says 'body of Moses,' but the original words are 'soma mashah ,' sound drawing out.

Anyway, that's my take on it.




Thank you, so much !

This assist with this excerpt :


Some scholars think it may originally have been part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, a trove of religious texts found in caves on the West Bank that were possibly associated with John the Baptist. The tablet is written in the form of an end-of-the-world prediction in the voice of the angel Gabriel; one line, for instance, predicts that "in three days you will know evil will be defeated by justice."


the voice of the angel Gabriel; one line, for instance, predicts that "in three days you will know evil will be defeated by justice."


defeated by justice ( Lamed ) ................... then you get the big picture of the tablet . . .



http://benjaminthecupsceptreofchrist.blogspot.com/
Go read why the silver cup was put in Benjamin's bag and it reveals the paper trail back to the betrayal of Joseph. Christ was betrayed. Joseph, was betrayed. The 30 pieces of silver lead backward to the Lamed/sceptre of Christ. The Lamed means again, numerical 30.

Genesis 44:12
And he searched and began at the eldest and left at the youngest and
the cup was found in Benjamin's sack
yaqub
QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Jul 7 2008, 10:34 PM) *
First. I reject the insinuation that the resurrection of Christ is an idea or concept by the hypothesis it is unoriginal simply because a tablet turns up that could have been misinterpreted. And now, with scholars suggesting the tablet's declaration of a resurrection before Christ's suggests Christianity borrowed the concept from another source.


Why be? Christianity is not original. It is based on the fulfillment of the OT promises by Christ. So, there is nothing original about the Christian beliefs. The crucifixion and resurrection are both prophesied in the OT, so what's the deal?

Humble Bob
QUOTE (crownsevenalphabet @ Jul 8 2008, 11:19 AM) *
QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Jul 8 2008, 11:16 AM) *
Thanks CSA. I have no problem with the tablet as I stated my objection is in the commentary by man who suggests the resurrection of Christ is borrowed from the tablet.

If the tablet is divine then it is prophetic, and Gabriel only prophecized what God had ordained.



Humble Bob :

I was sincere about the Old Testament prophecies which include archangel Gabriel.

Would you be willing to use this topic and help unfold, what the end time parallel's
are to this message of the tablet, versus scriptures relating to Gabriel ?


CSA, you are welcome to do so. It was polite for you to ask. Thank you.

smile.gif
Humble Bob
QUOTE (yaqub @ Jul 8 2008, 01:27 PM) *
QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Jul 7 2008, 10:34 PM) *
First. I reject the insinuation that the resurrection of Christ is an idea or concept by the hypothesis it is unoriginal simply because a tablet turns up that could have been misinterpreted. And now, with scholars suggesting the tablet's declaration of a resurrection before Christ's suggests Christianity borrowed the concept from another source.


Why be? Christianity is not original. It is based on the fulfillment of the OT promises by Christ. So, there is nothing original about the Christian beliefs. The crucifixion and resurrection are both prophesied in the OT, so what's the deal?


There are forces that as subtle as they are try to dismiss Jesus Christ as someone less than who he is and what he did.

I say that men are constantly trying to find the bones of Jesus.
gregg
QUOTE
First. I reject the insinuation that the resurrection of Christ is an idea or concept by the hypothesis it is unoriginal simply because a tablet turns up that could have been misinterpreted. And now, with scholars suggesting the tablet's declaration of a resurrection before Christ's suggests Christianity borrowed the concept from another source.


Flesh and blood require physical appearance to validate the idea or concept. There have been studies done of the parrellels throughout history with the death and resurrection of Christ. They say they found a few with other men, but I highly doubt it, because they would still be here. And maybe they are, we don't know. They say that there has been a rebirth of somebody important somewhere, like India or China. They might be still waiting for the 7th Imam. Who do the tribes in Zimbabwe look for?
My thought on the resurrection of Christ is that the church will be the leader of the world, the head of the New World Order. Well, something like that.
yaqub
QUOTE
QUOTE

Why be? Christianity is not original. It is based on the fulfillment of the OT promises by Christ. So, there is nothing original about the Christian beliefs. The crucifixion and resurrection are both prophesied in the OT, so what's the deal?


There are forces that as subtle as they are try to dismiss Jesus Christ as someone less than who he is and what he did.

I say that men are constantly trying to find the bones of Jesus.


I understand that. What I meant was that people need to understand that the Christian faith isn't based out of thin air, but based on Christ fulfilling the OT prophecies. Once we understand that, all the talk about orginality becomes completely meaningless. In fact, the more references to this kind of thinking, the better, because it means that the Jews were exactly expecting what the Christians believe, yet they somehow missed it.
crownsevenalphabet
QUOTE (crownsevenalphabet @ Jul 8 2008, 09:47 AM) *
QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Jul 7 2008, 10:34 PM) *
Okay, this is a Time article that supposes the resurrection of Christ was an unoriginal concept or idea suggested by a stone tablet dated earlier from when Christ was resurrected.


First. I reject the insinuation that the resurrection of Christ is an idea or concept by the hypothesis it is unoriginal simply because a tablet turns up that could have been misinterpreted. And now, with scholars suggesting the tablet's declaration of a resurrection before Christ's suggests Christianity borrowed the concept from another source.

Second. Nothing is mentioned that this tablet could be prophetic to Christ's resurrection.

Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...00.html?cnn=yes

QUOTE
Was Jesus' Resurrection a Sequel?
Monday, Jul. 07, 2008 By DAVID VAN BIEMA / NEW YORK AND TIM MCGIRK / JERUSALEM

A 3-ft.-high tablet romantically dubbed "Gabriel's Revelation" could challenge the uniqueness of the idea of the Christian Resurrection. The tablet appears to date authentically to the years just before the birth of Jesus and yet — at least according to one Israeli scholar — it announces the raising of a messiah after three days in the grave. If true, this could mean that Jesus' followers had access to a well-established paradigm when they decreed that Christ himself rose on the third day — and it might even hint that they they could have applied it in their grief after their master was crucified. However, such a contentious reading of the 87-line tablet depends on creative interpretation of a smudged passage, making it the latest entry in the woulda/coulda/shoulda category of possible New Testament artifacts; they are useful to prove less-spectacular points and to stir discussion on the big ones, but probably not to settle them nor shake anyone's faith.

The ink-on-stone document, which is owned by a Swiss-Israeli antiques collector and reportedly came to light about a decade ago, has been dated by manuscript and chemical experts to a period just before Jesus' birth. Some scholars think it may originally have been part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, a trove of religious texts found in caves on the West Bank that were possibly associated with John the Baptist. The tablet is written in the form of an end-of-the-world prediction in the voice of the angel Gabriel; one line, for instance, predicts that "in three days you will know evil will be defeated by justice."

Such "apocalypses," often featuring a triumphant military figure called a messiah (literally, anointed one), were not uncommon in the religious and politically tumultuous Jewish world of 1st century B.C. Palestine. But what may make the Gabriel tablet unique is its 80th line, which begins with the words "In three days" and includes some form of the verb "to live." Israel Knohl, an expert in Talmudic and biblical language at Jerusalem's Hebrew University who was not involved in the first research on the artifact, claims that it refers to a historic 1st-century Jewish rebel named Simon who was killed by the Romans in 4 B.C., and should read "In three days, you shall live. I Gabriel command you." If so, Jesus-era Judaism had begun to explore the idea of a three-day resurrection before Jesus was born.

This, in turn, undermines one of the strongest literary arguments employed by Christians over centuries to support the historicity of the Resurrection (in which they believe on faith): the specificity and novelty of the idea that the Messiah would die on a Friday and rise on a Sunday. Who could make such stuff up? But, as Knohl told TIME, maybe the Christians had a model to work from. The idea of a "dying and rising messiah appears in some Jewish texts, but until now, everyone thought that was the impact of Christianity on Judaism," he says. "But for the first time, we have proof that it was the other way around. The concept was there before Jesus." If so, he goes on, "this should shake our basic view of Christianity. ... What happens in the New Testament [could have been] adopted by Jesus and his followers based on an earlier messiah story."
Not so fast, say some Christian academics. "It is certainly not perfectly clear that the tablet is talking about a crucified and risen savior figure called Simon," says Ben Witherington, an early-Christianity expert at Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Ky. The verb that Knohl translates as "rise!," Witherington says, could also mean "there arose," and so one can ask "does it mean 'he comes to life,' i.e., a resurrection, or that he just 'shows up?' " Witherington also points out that gospel texts are far less reliant on the observed fact of the Resurrection (there is no angelic command in them like the line in the Gabriel stone) than on the testimony of eyewitnesses to Jesus' post-Resurrection self. Finally, Witherington notes that if he is wrong and Knohl's reading is right, it at least sets to rest the notion that the various gospel quotes attributed to Christ foreshadowing his death and Resurrection were textual retrojections put in his mouth by later believers — Jesus the Messianic Jew, as Knohl sees him, would have been familiar with the vocabulary for his own fate.

Knohl stands by his reading. "The spelling and the phrasing is unique," he told TIME, "but it is similar to to other texts found around the Dead Sea." Yet for now, at least, Gabriel's Revelation must take its place among a slew of recently discovered or rediscovered objects from around the time of Jesus that are claimed to either support or undermine Scripture but are themselves sufficiently, logically or archaeologically compromised to prevent their being definitive. In 2002, a bone-storage box with the legend "James Son of Joseph Brother of Jesus" bobbed up that seemed to buttress Jesus' historicity while at the same time suggest that the Catholic teaching that he had no true brothers was false — but the Israeli Antiquities Authority declared the inscription as a forgery (although various experts continue to disagree). In 2007 the Discovery Channel aired a documentary (funded by Titanic director James Cameron) that purported to have located the "Jesus Family Tomb" in the Israeli suburb of Talpiot, with bone boxes with the names "Jesus Son of Joseph," "Mary" and one of the names of Mary Magdalene. If the ossuaries were for the gospel Jesus, his mother and Mary Magdalene, then the implications for Christianity would be dire; but despite considerable initial hoopla, the idea is regarded by many as speculation.

It remains to be seen whether Gabriel's Revelation, and especially Knohl's interpretation, will weather the hot lights of fame. Even the authors of its initial research seem a little dubious about his claims that it is a dry run for the Easter story. But, as often happens in such cases, they seem better disposed to a slightly toned-down assertion: in this case, that the Gabriel tablet does indicate a very rare instance of the idea that a messiah might suffer — a notion introduced in Judaic thought centuries before by the prophet Isaiah but which supposedly went out of style by Jesus' time. If that more modest theory gains traction, it will forge a link between a trend in first-century Judaism and one of Christianity's galvanizing thoughts — that God might throw in his lot with a suffering or even murdered man — that could contribute to a growing mutual understanding.





Humble Bob:

This tablet is divine.

And if the news media would allow the Israel Knohl, an expert in Talmudic and biblical language at Jerusalem's Hebrew University . . . to reveal the encoded gematria of the tablet, then it would more than prove it is a divine tablet to affirm Christ . . .


Israel Knohl, an expert in Talmudic and biblical language at Jerusalem's Hebrew University who was not involved in the first research on the artifact, claims that it refers to a historic 1st-century Jewish rebel named Simon who was killed by the Romans in 4 B.C., and should read "In three days, you shall live. I Gabriel command you."


These are my findings, in decoding the encryptic meanings :




87-line tablet


The ink-on-stone document, which is owned by a Swiss-Israeli antiques collector and reportedly came to light about a decade ago, has been dated by manuscript and chemical experts to a period just before Jesus' birth. Some scholars think it may originally have been part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, a trove of religious texts found in caves on the West Bank that were possibly associated with John the Baptist. The tablet is written in the form of an end-of-the-world prediction in the voice of the angel Gabriel; one line, for instance, predicts that "in three days you will know evil will be defeated by justice."


Such "apocalypses," often featuring a triumphant military figure called a messiah (literally, anointed one), were not uncommon in the religious and politically tumultuous Jewish world of 1st century B.C. Palestine. But what may make the Gabriel tablet unique is its 80th line, which begins with the words "In three days" and includes some form of the verb "to live." Israel Knohl, an expert in Talmudic and biblical language at Jerusalem's Hebrew University who was not involved in the first research on the artifact, claims that it refers to a historic 1st-century Jewish rebel named Simon who was killed by the Romans in 4 B.C., and should read "In three days, you shall live. I Gabriel command you."




First, let us look and/or examine the tablet, as a divine timeline that will
confirm/affirm our Christian foundations.

The sacred gematria, of the 1st century Jewish rebel named Simon . . .

Holds the verification I am going to focus on :

The Simon tablet, made sure in his pre-death of 4 B.C., to make sure the tablet held specific lines :

87 lines

Now read why the Simon tablet, made this tablet into 87 lines, to
glorify ' The Everlasting Father ' (87)

http://biblewheel.com/GR/GR_87.asp


87 + The Everlasting Father + I am the Lord


For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful (111) , Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9.6

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 43.10f

Next :

But what may make the Gabriel tablet unique is its 80th line, which begins with the words "In three days" and includes some form of the verb "to live."

If the tablet has the 80th line, concerning the phrase : " In three (3) days "

The reason for this sentence being on the 80th line is as follows :

http://biblewheel.com/GR/GR_80.asp


The Number 80: Yesod / Foundation
As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.

Proverbs 10.25


80 + Foundation + Perfected, Finished + Priesthood + The LORD, Thy Redeemer + Hill


Next :

"In three days, you shall live. I Gabriel command you."


Why Gabriel ?

Well in Hebrew, as you read above, the 80th line of the tablet,
is the Yesod, foundation.

Under Yesod, foundation, is the archangel Gabriel.

Not any other angelic understanding is symbolic of the 80th line of the
tablet, except GABRIEL.

And not any other angel foretold the birth of Messiah, other than
archangel Gabriel.

So the entire tablet is prophetic to the birth, death, resurrection of
Jesus Christ the Messiah.


THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO
ST LUKE
CHAPTER 1

26 And in the sixth month the aangel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a avirgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among awomen.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, aFear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name aJESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the aSon of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the bthrone of his father cDavid:
33 And he shall areign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no bend.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I aknow not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The aHoly Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the bSon of God.


Next :

Remember this excerpt in the article, about the tablet ?

(excerpt)
Some scholars think it may originally have been part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, a trove of religious texts found in caves on the West Bank that were possibly associated with John the Baptist.



Well, start at Saint Luke, chapter 1, and review how John the Baptist is revealed by
the archangel Gabriel . . . also, just as Christ was.

So it is clear, that I am not an expert in translations of Hebrew text.

However, the facts are in this article to unfold why the `media` does not want the
tablet to be after Christ birth.

LET US NOT DISGARD THE VALUE OF THIS TABLET . . .

Why ?


The tablet is written in the form of an end-of-the-world prediction in the voice of the angel Gabriel; one line, for instance, predicts that "in three days you will know evil will be defeated by justice."


note:
This clue, from Gabriel would warrent the Old Testament researchers @forum, to
take a look at all the references to Gabriel involving prophecies of the end times.

Where is Stephen, @forum when we need him ?

`CALLING STEPHEN`, does anyone know how to forward this to Stephen. He understands
the two specific archangels Michael and Gabriel, very well, in reference to scripture.




http://www.matthewmcgee.org/rapture.html

1. There will be a literal seven-year tribulation. The last half of it will be the great tribulation. History has shown that God reveals His prophecies literally. Examples of literally fulfilled prophecies include the rise and fall of the Medo-Persian and Greek empires, the destruction of the city of Tyre, the temple being destroyed and rebuilt several times, dozens of events in the life of Jesus Christ, and many other prophecies. There will also be a literal tribulation of seven years on earth. In Daniel 9:24-27, the angel Gabriel told Daniel that 69 weeks of years after the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem is given, the Messiah would be crucified. Since God expressed this prophecy in years of 360 days, this is 69 times 7, or 483 years of 360 days each. The commandment Gabriel spoke of was given by King Artaxerxes about 100 years later in 445 BC (Nehemiah 2:1-8). Moving forward 69 weeks of 360-day years from the 445 BC date, this brings us to the early spring of 32 AD, when Jesus Christ was crucified. For further detail on this and other prophecies, see Fulfilled Prophecies and Other Evidence that the Bible is the Word of God. This prophecy also reveals that the 70th week will begin when the Antichrist makes his seven-year treaty with Israel and the surrounding nations, and that the Antichrist would break the treaty at the midpoint of the seven years. The last three and one half years are called the great tribulation. Its length is one half of a seven year period (Daniel 9:27), and "a time, times, and an half" (Daniel 12:7). Taking a "time" to be a year and "times" to be two years, this gives three and one half years. Revelation further describes the length of the second half of the tribulation week as 1260 days (Revelation 12:6) and 42 months (Revelation 13:5). Since God gave us the duration in four different units of time (days, months, years, and weeks of years), can there be any doubt how long it will last? Also, since God fulfilled the first 69 weeks of years literally, we know that He will do the same with the 70th week of years.
Humble Bob
QUOTE
1. There will be a literal seven-year tribulation. The last half of it will be the great tribulation. History has shown that God reveals His prophecies literally. Examples of literally fulfilled prophecies include the rise and fall of the Medo-Persian and Greek empires, the destruction of the city of Tyre, the temple being destroyed and rebuilt several times, dozens of events in the life of Jesus Christ, and many other prophecies. There will also be a literal tribulation of seven years on earth. In Daniel 9:24-27, the angel Gabriel told Daniel that 69 weeks of years after the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem is given, the Messiah would be crucified. Since God expressed this prophecy in years of 360 days, this is 69 times 7, or 483 years of 360 days each. The commandment Gabriel spoke of was given by King Artaxerxes about 100 years later in 445 BC (Nehemiah 2:1-8). Moving forward 69 weeks of 360-day years from the 445 BC date, this brings us to the early spring of 32 AD, when Jesus Christ was crucified. For further detail on this and other prophecies, see Fulfilled Prophecies and Other Evidence that the Bible is the Word of God. This prophecy also reveals that the 70th week will begin when the Antichrist makes his seven-year treaty with Israel and the surrounding nations, and that the Antichrist would break the treaty at the midpoint of the seven years. The last three and one half years are called the great tribulation. Its length is one half of a seven year period (Daniel 9:27), and "a time, times, and an half" (Daniel 12:7). Taking a "time" to be a year and "times" to be two years, this gives three and one half years. Revelation further describes the length of the second half of the tribulation week as 1260 days (Revelation 12:6) and 42 months (Revelation 13:5). Since God gave us the duration in four different units of time (days, months, years, and weeks of years), can there be any doubt how long it will last? Also, since God fulfilled the first 69 weeks of years literally, we know that He will do the same with the 70th week of years


CSA, I really wish somehow it were much easier to discern. My doggies are tired because this world runs me ragged.

Yeah, I follow the 70 week thing and somehow its prophetic for things to happen over a period of time. But, there's the issue of timing. End time prophecy IF it is happening must happen from a reference point preferably with something of the RECENT past, otherwise things get kicked down the road; gee it didn't happen this year, oh well I guess it will happen next year.

Can you tell me how it is scripturally interpreted that the antichrist will propose seven years peace with Israel and then break the peace?
Justice
And so it is.
Gabriel anounced to Muhammed to prophesy, not to start a new religion.
But then Muhammed made errors, and hence we have the counterfeit religion that propagates hatred.

That is why in the Book of Revelation, in the Letter to the Angel of the Church of Pergamum (Middle-East), there is mention of the seat of Satan.
gregg
Ahh Justice, was Nicolaus Mohammed? Antipas was the faithful martyr in Pergamos. And we are not told what the doctrine of Nicolaus is that some in Pergamos held. But everything in the chapter on Pergamos could be traced to the Islamic Koran.

It is strange because Antipas is the same as Antipater or 'substitute father.'
Justice
The Nicolites are the ones who place between a man made authority between God and each of us.
That is why God hates the Nicolites.

I am not sure if Antipas is the same as Antipater... but the substitute father is the Pope (calling himself "Holy Father" and thus competing with Yahweh).

There is an interesting lead here in the Netherlands... on Dec 5th the brithday of Saint Nikolaas is celebrated, alledged a spanish bishop who came to bring gifts for the poor children in the Netherlands. But historic account has it that this bishop was actually a turkish bishop.
The term Nicolites always reminds me of this bishop...

but lately I have come to understand that the Nicolites refers to the RCC.
yaqub
QUOTE (Justice @ Jul 8 2008, 07:45 PM) *
And so it is.
Gabriel anounced to Muhammed to prophesy, not to start a new religion.
But then Muhammed made errors, and hence we have the counterfeit religion that propagates hatred.


The spirit that appeared to Muhammad did not identify itself at first, so much so that Muhammad was so terrified that he wanted to commit suicide. Muhammad thought that he was demon-possessed. It was only later that it claimed to be Jibril. Yet, if you study the accounts, it differs from the accounts of angels in the Bible.
gregg
QUOTE
on Dec 5th the brithday of Saint Nikolaas is celebrated


That is the same as Dec. 25 in the US when 'ol Saint Nick (Santa Claus) visits the children and brings them toys.

And on the death of the 2 witnesses in Revelation, the people celebrate and give gifts to one another.

Antipas.

G493
Ἀντίπας
Antipas
an-tee'-pas
Contracted for a compound of G473 and a derivative of G3962; Antipas, a Christian: - Antipas.


G473
ἀντί
anti
an-tee'
A primary particle; opposite, that is, instead or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.

G3962
πατήρ
patēr
pat-ayr'
Apparently a primary word; a “father” (literally or figuratively, near or more remote): - father, parent.

Everything written in the bible is happening at one time, at this time. The bible tells you that you are not to say that this has happened or that has happened because there is no death, 'the sting of death has been taken away.'

1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
crownsevenalphabet
QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Jul 8 2008, 06:36 PM) *
QUOTE
1. There will be a literal seven-year tribulation. The last half of it will be the great tribulation. History has shown that God reveals His prophecies literally. Examples of literally fulfilled prophecies include the rise and fall of the Medo-Persian and Greek empires, the destruction of the city of Tyre, the temple being destroyed and rebuilt several times, dozens of events in the life of Jesus Christ, and many other prophecies. There will also be a literal tribulation of seven years on earth. In Daniel 9:24-27, the angel Gabriel told Daniel that 69 weeks of years after the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem is given, the Messiah would be crucified. Since God expressed this prophecy in years of 360 days, this is 69 times 7, or 483 years of 360 days each. The commandment Gabriel spoke of was given by King Artaxerxes about 100 years later in 445 BC (Nehemiah 2:1-8). Moving forward 69 weeks of 360-day years from the 445 BC date, this brings us to the early spring of 32 AD, when Jesus Christ was crucified. For further detail on this and other prophecies, see Fulfilled Prophecies and Other Evidence that the Bible is the Word of God. This prophecy also reveals that the 70th week will begin when the Antichrist makes his seven-year treaty with Israel and the surrounding nations, and that the Antichrist would break the treaty at the midpoint of the seven years. The last three and one half years are called the great tribulation. Its length is one half of a seven year period (Daniel 9:27), and "a time, times, and an half" (Daniel 12:7). Taking a "time" to be a year and "times" to be two years, this gives three and one half years. Revelation further describes the length of the second half of the tribulation week as 1260 days (Revelation 12:6) and 42 months (Revelation 13:5). Since God gave us the duration in four different units of time (days, months, years, and weeks of years), can there be any doubt how long it will last? Also, since God fulfilled the first 69 weeks of years literally, we know that He will do the same with the 70th week of years


CSA, I really wish somehow it were much easier to discern. My doggies are tired because this world runs me ragged.

Yeah, I follow the 70 week thing and somehow its prophetic for things to happen over a period of time. But, there's the issue of timing. End time prophecy IF it is happening must happen from a reference point preferably with something of the RECENT past, otherwise things get kicked down the road; gee it didn't happen this year, oh well I guess it will happen next year.

Can you tell me how it is scripturally interpreted that the antichrist will propose seven years peace with Israel and then break the peace?



Humble Bob :

You may find this shallow, however, I cannot answer this question ?

(question)
Can you tell me how it is scripturally interpreted that the antichrist will propose seven years peace with Israel and then break the peace?

If you have some answer's that reflect the topic of Gabriel within them, I am interested
in reading your findings.

However, that question you pose, should be a topic separated from this thread.

I have seen many topics in the area.

I have skills in research, not specific to this topic question.

Although I would like to see you present a topic/thread on this question.

I only posted that link, due to the reference back unto Gabriel.

The only political confirmation I have about the antichrist is the geography of
33rd parallel north.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33rd_parallel_north

All the great wars in history, can be traced to this list of countries/cities . . .

And 100% no doubt, all references to antichrist are directional : NORTH

The northern tribes are the warrior tribes. Bottom line . . .

That is why `Dan Tribe of North`, is not in the list of Revelation Tribes and then redeems
and is included later in the skeem of things . . .

The beast comes out of the north . . . so on/so forth . . .

-------------- ok, keep me posted about Gabriel ----------------


blessings . . .

Humble Bob
QUOTE (crownsevenalphabet @ Jul 9 2008, 07:28 AM) *
Humble Bob :

You may find this shallow, however, I cannot answer this question ?

(question)
Can you tell me how it is scripturally interpreted that the antichrist will propose seven years peace with Israel and then break the peace?

If you have some answer's that reflect the topic of Gabriel within them, I am interested
in reading your findings.

-------------- ok, keep me posted about Gabriel ----------------


blessings . . .


Very well, CSA. I appreciate your honesty, but this condition that I do not know...must stop. So, if it pleases the Lord I pray in the name of Christ the Lord may send upon you the Spirit of Prophecy to discern if the seven years of peace is a true prophecy or not. May the temptation of impatience be rebuked in His name, and your answer from Him.

Love HB
crownsevenalphabet
QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Jul 9 2008, 12:13 PM) *
QUOTE (crownsevenalphabet @ Jul 9 2008, 07:28 AM) *
Humble Bob :

You may find this shallow, however, I cannot answer this question ?

(question)
Can you tell me how it is scripturally interpreted that the antichrist will propose seven years peace with Israel and then break the peace?

If you have some answer's that reflect the topic of Gabriel within them, I am interested
in reading your findings.

-------------- ok, keep me posted about Gabriel ----------------


blessings . . .


Very well, CSA. I appreciate your honesty, but this condition that I do not know...must stop. So, if it pleases the Lord I pray in the name of Christ the Lord may send upon you the Spirit of Prophecy to discern if the seven years of peace is a true prophecy or not. May the temptation of impatience be rebuked in His name, and your answer from Him.

Love HB




Dearest HB :

The one thing I do think in the equation is this :


"The Last Jubilee". Messiah will return on a jubilee year.


We still would `not` know the hour, we still would have the signs and seasons . . . to understand
like 2008, it is close at hand . . .

And I will pray about :

So, if it pleases the Lord I pray in the name of Christ the Lord may send upon you the Spirit of Prophecy to discern if the seven years of peace is a true prophecy or not.
gregg
If a day is equal to however many years and we have determined a day to be 24 hours, what then is an hour?
crownsevenalphabet
QUOTE (gregg @ Jul 11 2008, 05:20 AM) *
If a day is equal to however many years and we have determined a day to be 24 hours, what then is an hour?



An hour ?

60 seconds

60 minutes

60 days

60 years

600 years

6000 years
gregg
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

If we have determined a day to be 24 hours, one hour with the Lord is 41.66 years. Just my thinking.
crownsevenalphabet
QUOTE (gregg @ Jul 11 2008, 04:32 PM) *
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

If we have determined a day to be 24 hours, one hour with the Lord is 41.66 years. Just my thinking.




Thank you, for presenting that.

41.66

Can you share an example by using the pattern's within the Bible ? is a reference to
41.66, in a timeline, a person's birth, length of life, like Joshua lived 110 years, right ?



yaqub
QUOTE (Justice @ Jul 8 2008, 06:45 PM) *
And so it is.
Gabriel anounced to Muhammed to prophesy, not to start a new religion.
But then Muhammed made errors, and hence we have the counterfeit religion that propagates hatred.


Oh I forgot, the spirit that appeared to Muhammad didn't tell him to prophesy. It told him to recite (qara... from which the word Qur'an came from). When Muhammad at first refused, the spirit choked him till he almost died.
gregg
QUOTE
Thank you, for presenting that.

41.66

Can you share an example by using the pattern's within the Bible ? is a reference to
41.66, in a timeline, a person's birth, length of life, like Joshua lived 110 years, right ?


Let's just round it up to 42, then and you can look and see.
crownsevenalphabet
QUOTE (gregg @ Jul 23 2008, 08:07 AM) *
QUOTE
Thank you, for presenting that.

41.66

Can you share an example by using the pattern's within the Bible ? is a reference to
41.66, in a timeline, a person's birth, length of life, like Joshua lived 110 years, right ?


Let's just round it up to 42, then and you can look and see.



Yep . . . I know . . . I did, due to this >. . . I think you should look and see with me (?) >

>

This morning I was given a set of numbers, to contemplate : ( July 7th, 2008, Monday )

16265886 = 42

About the meaning of 42 . . . .

Jacob's 2 Brides+jonah's Nineveh+2 Witnesses Of Rev, ~Parallel's: 42 months versus 42 stain glass art~
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...t=0&start=0
crownsevenalphabet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel's_Revelation

Gabriel's Revelation (also named Hazon Gabriel or the Vision of Gabriel[1]) is a three-foot-tall tablet with 87 lines of Hebrew containing a collection of short prophecies written in the first person and dated to the late first century BCE.[2][3] One of the stories allegedly tells of a man who was killed by the Romans and resurrected in three days. It is a tablet hailed as a "Dead Sea scroll in stone".[who?]

The tablet was likely found near the Dead Sea in Jordan some time around the year 2000 and has been associated with the same community who created the Dead Sea scrolls. It is relatively rare in its use of ink on stone.[4] It is in the possession of David Jeselsohn, a Swiss-Israeli collector, who bought it from a Jordanian antiquities dealer. At the time he was unaware of its significance.[3]
It perhaps sheds a new light on Christianity's origins in Judaism.[5]

The finding has caused controversy among scholars. Israel Knohl, who is an expert in Talmudic and biblical language at Jerusalem's Hebrew University reads the inscription as a command from the angel Gabriel "to rise from the dead within three days". He takes this command to be directed at a 1st century Jewish rebel called Simon, who was killed by the Romans in 4 B.C.[3] In Knohl's view the finding "calls for a complete reassessment of all previous scholarship on the subject of messianism, Jewish and Christian alike".[6] Ben Witherington, on the other hand – an Early Christianity expert at Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore Kentucky – claims that a word interpreted as "rise" could just as easily be taken to mean "show up".[3] At a conference at the Israel Museum in Jerusalem between the 6th and the 8 July in 2008, marking the 60th anniversary of the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls, Knohl gave a paper on the tablet.[4]
zeetz
Betty, did you ever get the scriptures that answer your question below to Humble Bob?


QUOTE
Humble Bob :

You may find this shallow, however, I cannot answer this question ?

(question)
Can you tell me how it is scripturally interpreted that the antichrist will propose seven years peace with Israel and then break the peace?



I apologize in advance if I missed where someone was able to get the scriptures you are looking for.... I think it is in Daniel If you still need them, please let me know and I will find in the Book and post. It may take me a bit as I am in and out of garden this afternoon...

zeetz




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE (crownsevenalphabet @ Jul 9 2008, 06:28 AM) *
QUOTE (Humble Bob @ Jul 8 2008, 06:36 PM) *
QUOTE
1. There will be a literal seven-year tribulation. The last half of it will be the great tribulation. History has shown that God reveals His prophecies literally. Examples of literally fulfilled prophecies include the rise and fall of the Medo-Persian and Greek empires, the destruction of the city of Tyre, the temple being destroyed and rebuilt several times, dozens of events in the life of Jesus Christ, and many other prophecies. There will also be a literal tribulation of seven years on earth. In Daniel 9:24-27, the angel Gabriel told Daniel that 69 weeks of years after the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem is given, the Messiah would be crucified. Since God expressed this prophecy in years of 360 days, this is 69 times 7, or 483 years of 360 days each. The commandment Gabriel spoke of was given by King Artaxerxes about 100 years later in 445 BC (Nehemiah 2:1-8). Moving forward 69 weeks of 360-day years from the 445 BC date, this brings us to the early spring of 32 AD, when Jesus Christ was crucified. For further detail on this and other prophecies, see Fulfilled Prophecies and Other Evidence that the Bible is the Word of God. This prophecy also reveals that the 70th week will begin when the Antichrist makes his seven-year treaty with Israel and the surrounding nations, and that the Antichrist would break the treaty at the midpoint of the seven years. The last three and one half years are called the great tribulation. Its length is one half of a seven year period (Daniel 9:27), and "a time, times, and an half" (Daniel 12:7). Taking a "time" to be a year and "times" to be two years, this gives three and one half years. Revelation further describes the length of the second half of the tribulation week as 1260 days (Revelation 12:6) and 42 months (Revelation 13:5). Since God gave us the duration in four different units of time (days, months, years, and weeks of years), can there be any doubt how long it will last? Also, since God fulfilled the first 69 weeks of years literally, we know that He will do the same with the 70th week of years


CSA, I really wish somehow it were much easier to discern. My doggies are tired because this world runs me ragged.

Yeah, I follow the 70 week thing and somehow its prophetic for things to happen over a period of time. But, there's the issue of timing. End time prophecy IF it is happening must happen from a reference point preferably with something of the RECENT past, otherwise things get kicked down the road; gee it didn't happen this year, oh well I guess it will happen next year.

Can you tell me how it is scripturally interpreted that the antichrist will propose seven years peace with Israel and then break the peace?



Humble Bob :

You may find this shallow, however, I cannot answer this question ?

(question)
Can you tell me how it is scripturally interpreted that the antichrist will propose seven years peace with Israel and then break the peace?

If you have some answer's that reflect the topic of Gabriel within them, I am interested
in reading your findings.

However, that question you pose, should be a topic separated from this thread.

I have seen many topics in the area.

I have skills in research, not specific to this topic question.

Although I would like to see you present a topic/thread on this question.

I only posted that link, due to the reference back unto Gabriel.

The only political confirmation I have about the antichrist is the geography of
33rd parallel north.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33rd_parallel_north

All the great wars in history, can be traced to this list of countries/cities . . .

And 100% no doubt, all references to antichrist are directional : NORTH

The northern tribes are the warrior tribes. Bottom line . . .

That is why `Dan Tribe of North`, is not in the list of Revelation Tribes and then redeems
and is included later in the skeem of things . . .

The beast comes out of the north . . . so on/so forth . . .

-------------- ok, keep me posted about Gabriel ----------------


blessings . . .

crownsevenalphabet
I created a new thread, to help unlock all the questions in this thread.
To keep the Gabriel topic cleaner from this issue : >


Spirit Of Prophecy To Discern If The Seven Years, of peace is a true prophecy or not ( ? )
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?s...c=21072&hl=


CONCLUSION . . .

HUMBLE BOB
POST#12
Jul 10 2008, 06:51 PM
CSA, Thank you for sharing, for if I understand what this mean then there is no 7 year peace to come in that in never came or it already came.

Peace is a time during prosperity.





http://www.yahweh.com/SevenYears/DefaultPW09_10_2004.htm

The Peace Plan,
The Oslo Accord—
A Seven Year Plan Of Action

The Seven Year Peace Plan signed on September 13, 1993 has been postponed several times, thereby stopping the action and the count of this Seven Year Period. The completion of this Seven Year Plan depends upon the amount of time that the plan is actually implemented. This plan for peace is dependent upon certain events taking place during a certain number of months.
benny balerio
The above about the 93 olso accords being that of Daniel 9'27 is incorrect by 90%........Why did I say that?
The reason is that there is more to this than most of you realize.This ollso accords will be tied into the following.A one world government is in developmentAs to the one world government,...I am very aware of the Mason's and Illuminati.
There are many prophecies running parallel, that are made up of several prophetic ingredients,that build upon the coming one world government.Such as the developing Medterranian Union,The European Neighborhood Policy,The Alliance Of Civilizations,The United Nations,and The Interfaith Movement.All the above will be involved in Daniel 9;27. Even now for the first time in history, Jewish rabbis are involved in the current peace negotiations, mainly but not solely for reasons of the temple mount.On June 6th 2006 PM olmert declared to the world that Israel wanted a covenant of peace with her arab neighbors,and word of his statement had spread like wildfire.
But as I had pointed out to the forum,...there are many global political factions that resist a one world government.At this rate.....If it were not for the coming three global shocks,.....the one world government would not happen in our lifetime.The Rapture,Isaiah 17;1 and Ezekial 38 ...will place the goal of a one world government into a fast forward motion. The Rapture itself will have it's repercussions.There will have to be a global population concensus to account for who is here and who is not here.It will cause a global economic collapse, which in turn will call for all nations to want to unite for economic reasons.Everyone will have one thing in common.....all or most, have had their children disappear.Everyone will become religious overnite.At this time, the stage is set....all prophecy awaiting one event before it's final completion......that event is the rapture.

There are two prophetic wars developing at the same time.They are Isaiah 17;1 and Ezekial 38.
Isaiah 17;1 will happen first,which should happen directly after the rapture.
These two global shocks,are enough to convince all global leaders, including Israel to agree to a false persuado peace.Notice in Joel 3;2 states these words...."They have also divided up My Land."
These words are past tense.Without some form of peace,...this cannot happen.Perhaps the current peace negotiations will continue from being interupted by the rapture and Isaiah 17;1.
This will set up the conditions that must be met for Ezekial 38....which will result in Daniel 9;27
At this moment,there is too much infighting from global political factions for agreement in harmony for a one world government.
It is the third shock(Ezekial 38) that breaks the camels back and resistance of the world.
At that time the world is humbled enough to agree to a one world government.
This one world government is not something that can happen overnite.It will take a little time for the anti-christ to get his ducks in order.

But what you are wittnessing is all the chess pieces being put in place,...and then all of a sudden the Lord says Checkmate!

................................................benny cool.gif

crownsevenalphabet
(quote from Benny)
But what you are wittnessing is all the chess pieces being put in place,...and then all of a sudden the Lord says Checkmate!


The black king has been checkmated; the game is over.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CheckmateProper.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checkmate
Checkmate (frequently shortened to mate) is a situation in chess (and in other boardgames of the chaturanga family) in which one player's king is threatened with capture (in check) and there is no way to meet that threat. Delivering checkmate is the ultimate goal in chess: a player who is checkmated loses the game (the king is never actually captured – the game ends as soon as the king is checkmated). In practice, most players resign an inevitably lost game before being checkmated.

If a king is under attack but the threat can be met, then the king is said to be in check, but is not in checkmate. If a player is not in check but has no legal move (that is, no valid move that would not put the king in check), the result of the game is stalemate, and the game ends in a draw.

The term checkmate is an alteration or Hobson-Jobson of the Persian phrase "Shah Mat" which means, literally, "the King is ambushed" (or "helpless" or "defeated"). It does not literally mean "the King is dead", although that is a common misconception.[1]

Moghadam traced the etymology of the word mate. It comes from a Persian word mandan, meaning "to remain", which is cognate with the Latin word manco. It means "remained" in the sense of "abandoned" and the formal translation is "surprised", in the military sense of "ambushed" (not in the sense of "astonished"). So the king is in mate when he is ambushed, at a loss, or abandoned to his fate.(Davidson 1981:70-71)

The term checkmate has come to mean in modern parlance an irrefutable, strategic victory.
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