where does the bible say:?
age of grace
age of christianity
?
does the AGE-OF-GRACE end at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
is god finished with Grace,,,,,,,,at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
Full Version: Does The Age-of-grace End At The Beginning-of-trib?
QUOTE (dennis mann @ Jun 18 2008, 04:14 PM) 
where does the bible say:?
age of grace
age of christianity
?
does the AGE-OF-GRACE end at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
is god finished with Grace,,,,,,,,at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
age of grace
age of christianity
?
does the AGE-OF-GRACE end at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
is god finished with Grace,,,,,,,,at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
No! God is finished with new comers to Grace after the abomination of desolation is set up.
Then the door is shut.
Otherwise Grace ends for many when they die in their sins.
But for those who Love the Lord with all of their heart, all of their mind and all of their might, there is the resurrection from the dead when Christ returns. Then God's precious gift of Grace is complete and all is fulfilled for eternity.
.
QUOTE (dennis mann @ Jun 18 2008, 11:14 AM)
where does the bible say:?
age of grace
age of christianity
?
does the AGE-OF-GRACE end at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
is god finished with Grace,,,,,,,,at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
age of grace
age of christianity
?
does the AGE-OF-GRACE end at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
is god finished with Grace,,,,,,,,at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
You will not get an answer to your first two questions because they are doctrines of men created outside of scripture. Since the concepts are not Biblical the final two ideas are meaningless.
QUOTE (talltown @ Nov 14 2008, 01:31 PM)
QUOTE (dennis mann @ Jun 18 2008, 11:14 AM)
where does the bible say:?
age of grace
age of christianity
?
does the AGE-OF-GRACE end at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
is god finished with Grace,,,,,,,,at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
age of grace
age of christianity
?
does the AGE-OF-GRACE end at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
is god finished with Grace,,,,,,,,at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
You will not get an answer to your first two questions because they are doctrines of men created outside of scripture. Since the concepts are not Biblical the final two ideas are meaningless.
As blunt as he put it, he is correct. I challenge everyone to re-examine the Bible. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. God does not change. There is no age limit to God's grace and mercy.
In fact, the Hebrew word translated grace is "chesed." Chesed means to show undeserved favor to an inferior or needy person. Grace is part of the very character of God. Jesus said, :He who comes to me, I will in no way cast out." This promise holds true forever. All of these divisions man puts in the Bible are just made up doctrines, for the most part. The "Age of Grace" doctrine is one of the most erroneous ones. In fact, the ones who promote this teaching are mostly pre-trib dispensationalists. They believe that the book of Joel is a prophecy of the time of the great tribulation for Israel.
Joel 2:32 says "32 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls." People are getting saved without any stopping point in the tribulation. To say that there are sinners who believe in Jesus to save and forgive them who are then rejected by God when they pray is blasphemy and falsehood. God's love, grace and mercy has no end for those who will trust him.
What kind of Jesus and good news do you really have if there is an expiration date on the eternal gospel?
No expiration
The Lord will still offer slavation during the tribulation period and will not with draw it
Revelation 14 gives the evidence of the continued spreading of the gospel
Revelation 6, 15, and 20 presents those who will become believers and killed for their faith during the period
The Lord will still offer slavation during the tribulation period and will not with draw it
Revelation 14 gives the evidence of the continued spreading of the gospel
Revelation 6, 15, and 20 presents those who will become believers and killed for their faith during the period
QUOTE (endtime @ Nov 12 2008, 01:50 AM)
QUOTE (dennis mann @ Jun 18 2008, 04:14 PM)
where does the bible say:?
age of grace
age of christianity
?
does the AGE-OF-GRACE end at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
is god finished with Grace,,,,,,,,at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
age of grace
age of christianity
?
does the AGE-OF-GRACE end at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
is god finished with Grace,,,,,,,,at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
No! God is finished with new comers to Grace after the abomination of desolation is set up.
Then the door is shut.
Otherwise Grace ends for many when they die in their sins.
But for those who Love the Lord with all of their heart, all of their mind and all of their might, there is the resurrection from the dead when Christ returns. Then God's precious gift of Grace is complete and all is fulfilled for eternity.
.
The abomination is "set up" at the beginning of his tribulation (five months). It ends upon the 2nd Advent of Christ, 7th trump. All throughout that tribulation salvation is open. The door shuts when.....
Revelation 15:8 And the Temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from His power; and NO MAN WAS ABLE TO ENTER INTO THE TEMPLE, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
As it is written...."till" the plagues were fulfilled....what happens once they are?
I really don't think you can make a case from the Bible that there is ever going to be a stopping point to the power of the blood of Jesus to save a repentant sinner. It is not wise to establish a doctrine based off of something found in a symbolic vision (like Revelation) or a parable. The literal texts make it clear that God's mercies are new every morning. His love has not end. His mery endureth forever.
Well I think it does show that it extends into the tribulation. When the house of David comes to Christ.... they will come to Him just as we did through Grace.....
I think that we can also find where Grace is no more extended in the Trib.......
Rev 10:7-8
7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
8And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
Rev 11:15-19
15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
I think at this point..... when God's wrath is about to be poured out Grace is NO MORE..... the "MYSTERY OF GOD" is finished.
Most would then ask me...... what is the Mystery of God?
I believe the Mystery of God.... is the Gospel of Christ! It is Christ in us.... the hope of Glory...... it is His Salvation..... His Grace that He pours out on us.
I think that as chapter 10 of Rev states.... that when the 7th trumpet is about to be blown.... It is over/ no more Grace.
Love in Christ,
Val
Messiahiscoming
QUOTE
Zechariah 12:9-11
9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
I think that we can also find where Grace is no more extended in the Trib.......
QUOTE
Rev 10:7-8
7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
8And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
Rev 11:15-19
15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
I think at this point..... when God's wrath is about to be poured out Grace is NO MORE..... the "MYSTERY OF GOD" is finished.
Most would then ask me...... what is the Mystery of God?
QUOTE
Colossians 1:26-28
26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 3:8-10
8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Colossians 4:2-4
2Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving;
3Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:
4That I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak.
26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 3:8-10
8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Colossians 4:2-4
2Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving;
3Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:
4That I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak.
I believe the Mystery of God.... is the Gospel of Christ! It is Christ in us.... the hope of Glory...... it is His Salvation..... His Grace that He pours out on us.
I think that as chapter 10 of Rev states.... that when the 7th trumpet is about to be blown.... It is over/ no more Grace.
Love in Christ,
Val
Messiahiscoming
SO are you essentially saying that Christ will no longer be dwelling in the saints at that point?
Well now that would be silly for me to say that. No .... I am saying at that point the Mystery of God is over. No more coming to Christ at this point. Of course his grace will still be present with those that have received Him prior to the trump. Afterwards.... I would not be banking on a plan of escape.
Rev 11
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Love in Christ,
Val
Messiahiscoming
QUOTE
Rev 11
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Love in Christ,
Val
Messiahiscoming
The door shutting is described in Matthew 25:1-13 and this is a pre-tribulation event
Those after the door is shut will have to repent and turn to the Lord during the tribulation period
At the end of the tribulation period the Lord will gather the mortal survivors and separate them
Those mortals found to be believers will enter His millennial kingdom
Those found in unbelief will not
Those mortals who inhabit the millennial kingdom will also be subject to his salvation and will have to maintain their allegiance to him .... if they rebel He will govern them
If they continue in their rebellion against Him, He will eliminate them
Those after the door is shut will have to repent and turn to the Lord during the tribulation period
At the end of the tribulation period the Lord will gather the mortal survivors and separate them
Those mortals found to be believers will enter His millennial kingdom
Those found in unbelief will not
Those mortals who inhabit the millennial kingdom will also be subject to his salvation and will have to maintain their allegiance to him .... if they rebel He will govern them
If they continue in their rebellion against Him, He will eliminate them
QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 14 2008, 02:50 PM)
The door shutting is described in Matthew 25:1-13 and this is a pre-tribulation event
Those after the door is shut will have to repent and turn to the Lord during the tribulation period
At the end of the tribulation period the Lord will gather the mortal survivors and separate them
Those mortals found to be believers will enter His millennial kingdom
Those found in unbelief will not
Those after the door is shut will have to repent and turn to the Lord during the tribulation period
At the end of the tribulation period the Lord will gather the mortal survivors and separate them
Those mortals found to be believers will enter His millennial kingdom
Those found in unbelief will not
Do you think that those mortal survivors that finally believe the gospel after Jesus comes back, who were formally serving the antichrist, will be rejected from salvation from Jesus if they repent then? Does the blood of Jesus lose its power for them and them only?
Everyone living will go thru the hour of temptation,,,,,,Christ will return and the elects/those that didnt follow satan,,,will be with Christ for 1 day......Satan will then be released after the 1 day and go out to decieve one last time,,,,many of those who followed satan,,,,will turn right back around and follow him after he is released,,,,,this people are in big trouble.....
QUOTE (whirlwind @ Nov 14 2008, 03:16 PM)
QUOTE (endtime @ Nov 12 2008, 01:50 AM)
QUOTE (dennis mann @ Jun 18 2008, 04:14 PM)
where does the bible say:?
age of grace
age of christianity
?
does the AGE-OF-GRACE end at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
is god finished with Grace,,,,,,,,at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
age of grace
age of christianity
?
does the AGE-OF-GRACE end at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
is god finished with Grace,,,,,,,,at the BEGINNING-OF-TRIB?
No! God is finished with new comers to Grace after the abomination of desolation is set up.
Then the door is shut.
Otherwise Grace ends for many when they die in their sins.
But for those who Love the Lord with all of their heart, all of their mind and all of their might, there is the resurrection from the dead when Christ returns. Then God's precious gift of Grace is complete and all is fulfilled for eternity.
.
The abomination is "set up" at the beginning of his tribulation (five months). It ends upon the 2nd Advent of Christ, 7th trump. All throughout that tribulation salvation is open. The door shuts when.....
Revelation 15:8 And the Temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from His power; and NO MAN WAS ABLE TO ENTER INTO THE TEMPLE, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
As it is written...."till" the plagues were fulfilled....what happens once they are?
It reminds me of when God delivered the children from Egypt, all the plagues had to be played out, as God hardened Pharoahs heart so His glory might be revealed...
The 7th plague was hailstones of fire that fell upon Egypt. Like on Sodom in the days of Lot... Jesus said it would also be like in the days of Lot. Piisssttt Lot wasn't raptured but delievered...
Rev 16:14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
Rev 16:16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!"
Rev 16:21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great...
Notice Jesus is already back (coming as a thief "in the night" no one sees Jesus except those who keep watch ) before the hail falls.... Rev. 16:15
"Do you think that those mortal survivors that finally believe the gospel after Jesus comes back, who were formally serving the antichrist, will be rejected from salvation from Jesus if they repent then? Does the blood of Jesus lose its power for them and them only?"
>Immediately after the tribulation period the Lord will be on the earth and He will gather all of the mortal survivors
>These will either be those who believe.... or those who do not
>He will base His decision for separation upon their behavior and status "during" the tribulation period
>Sheep ..... goats
>The believing will enter His earthly kingdom
>Those found in unbelief, whether a they were following the "antichrist" or not, will be cast off and will not enter his kingdom .... they are lost
>None of the unbelieving survivors will enter the kingdom
>Those found believing will, and they will be required to keep their faith during the millennium just like today
>Some will .... and some will not
>Salvation will be available to all of the nations of the millennial kingdom just like today
>The requirements will be the same
>Notable differences will be the Lord's presence on the earth ruling from Jerusalem and satan's confinement in the abyss .... but Humans will still need to choose the Lord and will need His offer of salvation
>There will be another human rebellion against the Lord at the end of His millennial kingdom and He will react by destroying those involved
>Immediately after the tribulation period the Lord will be on the earth and He will gather all of the mortal survivors
>These will either be those who believe.... or those who do not
>He will base His decision for separation upon their behavior and status "during" the tribulation period
>Sheep ..... goats
>The believing will enter His earthly kingdom
>Those found in unbelief, whether a they were following the "antichrist" or not, will be cast off and will not enter his kingdom .... they are lost
>None of the unbelieving survivors will enter the kingdom
>Those found believing will, and they will be required to keep their faith during the millennium just like today
>Some will .... and some will not
>Salvation will be available to all of the nations of the millennial kingdom just like today
>The requirements will be the same
>Notable differences will be the Lord's presence on the earth ruling from Jerusalem and satan's confinement in the abyss .... but Humans will still need to choose the Lord and will need His offer of salvation
>There will be another human rebellion against the Lord at the end of His millennial kingdom and He will react by destroying those involved
QUOTE (Stephen @ Nov 16 2008, 12:26 PM)
"Do you think that those mortal survivors that finally believe the gospel after Jesus comes back, who were formally serving the antichrist, will be rejected from salvation from Jesus if they repent then? Does the blood of Jesus lose its power for them and them only?"
>Immediately after the tribulation period the Lord will be on the earth and He will gather all of the mortal survivors
>These will either be those who believe.... or those who do not
>He will base His decision for separation upon their behavior and status "during" the tribulation period
>Sheep ..... goats
>The believing will enter His earthly kingdom
>Those found in unbelief, whether a they were following the "antichrist" or not, will be cast off and will not enter his kingdom .... they are lost
>None of the unbelieving survivors will enter the kingdom
>Those found believing will, and they will be required to keep their faith during the millennium just like today
>Some will .... and some will not
>Salvation will be available to all of the nations of the millennial kingdom just like today
>The requirements will be the same
>Notable differences will be the Lord's presence on the earth ruling from Jerusalem and satan's confinement in the abyss .... but Humans will still need to choose the Lord and will need His offer of salvation
>There will be another human rebellion against the Lord at the end of His millennial kingdom and He will react by destroying those involved
>Immediately after the tribulation period the Lord will be on the earth and He will gather all of the mortal survivors
>These will either be those who believe.... or those who do not
>He will base His decision for separation upon their behavior and status "during" the tribulation period
>Sheep ..... goats
>The believing will enter His earthly kingdom
>Those found in unbelief, whether a they were following the "antichrist" or not, will be cast off and will not enter his kingdom .... they are lost
>None of the unbelieving survivors will enter the kingdom
>Those found believing will, and they will be required to keep their faith during the millennium just like today
>Some will .... and some will not
>Salvation will be available to all of the nations of the millennial kingdom just like today
>The requirements will be the same
>Notable differences will be the Lord's presence on the earth ruling from Jerusalem and satan's confinement in the abyss .... but Humans will still need to choose the Lord and will need His offer of salvation
>There will be another human rebellion against the Lord at the end of His millennial kingdom and He will react by destroying those involved
Jesus once said when the son of man comes will He find faith?
When Jesus came the first time did He find faith. The religious believed in Moises, but did not have faith that the Messiah had come.
Will Jesus find faith at His second coming? People have faith in His first coming, but will they have faith in His return?
The major reason they denied Jesus is that Jesus did not come in a way that they expected Him.
Today many believe that Jesus returns according to their interpretation of scriptures, and if He returns in a way they do not expect they will deny Him again. All eyes might see Jesus but not all eyes will recognise Jesus for lack of wisdom, like the first time...
When Jesus comes down the mountain will be split in two, the mountian is the body of Christ, like the stone who grows into a mountain covering the whole earth...
Many will miss their hour of visitation as they will not believe the report of the saints.
You have some very strange ideas .... like the mountain splitting referring to the Body of Christ
A better explanation of His separating of the professing church is found in Matthew 25:1-3 and Revelation 3:10 -3:16
The mountain splitting in Zechariah 14 is literal, and will be for the purpose of protecting the believing Israelite remnant who will flee when they see the abomination of desolation set up on the temple mount by Satan's beast and followers
"Will Jesus find faith at His second coming?"
Not much
There will be very few believers living just before the Lord's coming tribulation period begins
There are not many today and the numbers are trending down .... not up
A better explanation of His separating of the professing church is found in Matthew 25:1-3 and Revelation 3:10 -3:16
The mountain splitting in Zechariah 14 is literal, and will be for the purpose of protecting the believing Israelite remnant who will flee when they see the abomination of desolation set up on the temple mount by Satan's beast and followers
"Will Jesus find faith at His second coming?"
Not much
There will be very few believers living just before the Lord's coming tribulation period begins
There are not many today and the numbers are trending down .... not up
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