Futurism and the Bible
And the Origins of Futurism

The word “Futurist” and “Futurism” may be unfamiliar to many Christians today, yet one hundred years ago it was well known among all Protestants. E.B. Elliott, in his classic commentary on the book of Revelation republished for the fifth time in 1862, called Horae Apocalyptica, gives this background and definition:
“The futurist scheme, as I have elsewhere stated, was first, or nearly first, propounded about the year 1585 by the Jesuit Ribera; as the fittest one to turn aside the Protestant application of the Apocalyptic prophecy from the Church of Rome. In England and Ireland of late years it has been brought into vogue chiefly by Mr. S.R. Maitland and Mr. Burgh; followed by the writer of four of the Oxford Tracts on Antichrist. Its general characteristic is to view the whole Apocalypse, at least after the Epistles to the Seven Churches, as a representation of the events of the consummation and second advent, all still future: the Israel depicted in it being the literal Israel; the temple, Apoc. xi., a literal rebuilt Jewish temple at Jerusalem; and the Antichrist, or Apocalyptic Beast under his last head, a personal infidel Antichrist, fated to reign and triumph over the saints for 3 1/2 years, (the days in the chronological periods being all literal days) [rather than years], until Christ’s coming shall destroy him” (Horae, Vol. 4, p. 597).

According to the Futurist viewpoint, “the whole 1800 years that have passed subsequently are to be viewed as a blank in prophecy; the period having been purposely skipped over by the Divine Spirit, in order at once to plunge the reader into the events and times of the consummation” (ibid.).

In other words, when “Futurists” look at the book of Revelation, they see little or no prophetic fulfilments during the entire course of Christian history. In its modern form, almost everything is predicted to be fulfilled after the Rapture, after we’re gone, with two of its primary characteristics being: 1) The belief in a single, future evil Antichrist person, and 2) the belief that prophecy will then centre around the literal Jewish nation with its supposedly rebuilt temple.

Futurists often claim that Revelation 4:1 describes the Rapture and that everything beyond this will occur during a supposed seven years tribulation. Its modern advocates often claim that after Revelation 4, God’s Church is not on earth because it is not specifically mentioned. Thus the absence of the word “Church” is used as proof of its removal.

It is hoped that the following points will reveal the failure of Futurism:
It doesn’t make sense that God would pass over 2000 years of Christian history in His prophecies, especially since the foundation prophecy of Daniel 2 reveals a straightforward historical succession from the days of Babylon all the way down to the end of time.

A little historical research will reveal that the majority of Christian commentators on the book of Revelation down throughout Christian history have definitely seen the Church as being on earth from Revelation 4-20.

Revelation 4:1 does not describe the Rapture of the Church. It simply portrays John alone being taken up to heaven in a vision. Calling this “the Rapture” is really stretching it! John did not actually go to heaven in Revelation 4:1. His toes were still firmly planted on Patmos.

Although the word “Church” is not used in Revelation 4-21, there are many prophecies and statements that clearly reveal that the Church is in fact on earth during those times.

The White Horse of the First Seal (Revelation 6:2): Although there are differences in the application of this symbol, a very large number have taken the same view as Pareus in his commentary (published in 1615). Elliott says, “In the four first seals he [Pareus] makes the horse the Church, Christ being its rider: - first white, with reference to its primitive purity; chiefly for the first 200 or 300 years: next red, with reference to its persecutions and blood-shedding of martyrs by the Pagan emperors ...” (Horae, Vol. 4, p. 474).

The Fifth Trumpet (Revelation 9:4) does not hurt those who have “the seal of God on their foreheads.” This has often been applied to historical Christians in God’s Church.

The Time of the Sounding of the Seventh Angel (Revelation 10:7):
During this time, “the mystery of God [will] be finished.” This “mystery of God” involves the preaching of Jesus Christ by His Church (Ephesians 3:9-10; Colossians 4:3) and the fullness of Christ in the hearts of His people (Colossians 1:26-27).

The Pure Woman (Revelation 12:1, 6, 13, 17):
Paul describes Christ’s Church as a “chaste virgin” (2 Corinthians 11:2) and as a “her” (Ephesians 5:25). So does John in Revelation 19 which refers to Christ’s “saints” as “His wife” (Revelation 19:7-8).

The Faithful and Persecuted Saints against the Beast (Revelation 13-14):
The Beast makes “war with the saints” (Revelation 13:7). “Here is the patience and faith of the saints” (Revelation 13:10). “Here is the patience of the saints: Here are they who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” (Revelation 14:12). Who are these “saints”? Paul speaks of “all the churches of the saints” (1 Corinthians 14:33). Thus wherever the saints are, there is Christ’s Church.

The Three Angel Messengers (Revelation 14:6-12, 14):
Three final messages are represented as being given by angels right before the second coming of Jesus Christ. The first angel has the “everlasting gospel” to “preach” to all the world (Revelation 14:6 KJV). This doesn’t mean that literal angels will shout from the skies. Not at all. Rather, these angels represent messages being given by Christ’s Church. It is the Church that is to “preach” the gospel to all the world before the end comes. Matthew 24:14.

The Faithful Garment Keepers before Armageddon (Revelation 16:15-16):
Right before the Battle of Armageddon, Jesus says, “Behold, I come as a thief, blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame ... Armageddon.” It is faithful Christians in Christ’s Church who hold onto the garments of His righteousness before the end.

The martyrs (Revelation 6:9; 12:11; 17:6):
Mystery Babylon is drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus Christ. These martyrs are faithful Christians in God’s Church throughout history who have died for the truth of Christ.

The Called Out ones (Revelation 18:4):
Before the final plagues fall (Revelation 18:8), Jesus says, “Come out of her, my people ...” His people are His saints in His Church who have become trapped inside of spiritual Babylon.

The Voice of the Bride (Revelation 18:23):
Jesus pleads through His bride (His Church) to His “other sheep” (John 10:16) who are yet trapped inside the deceptions of Mystery Babylon - before it’s too late.

The Bride of Christ (Revelation 19:7-8):
Before Jesus returns, His wife makes “herself ready.” This refers to Christ’s Church.

The martyrs who resist the Beast (Revelation 20:4):
Many are killed for “their witness to Jesus and for the word of God.” During Earth’s final crisis, true Christians in Christ’s Church refuse to bow to the Beast, the Image, and their Mark, even until death.

Futurism views all of the above passages as applying only to the “tribulation saints” who are forced to face a future one-man Antichrist after the Rapture. Yet this view ignores over a thousand years of Christian history and bloodshed during which faithful martyrs in the Church of Jesus Christ stood up against the real Beast and Harlot of Babylon.

Jesus Himself said, “On this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18). In Christian history, faithful souls have fought the Beast, Mystery Babylon, and the great Dragon himself. Yet “they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.” (Revelation 12:11).

The Origins and Purpose of Futurism

The Evil Empire of Jesuits

Modern Christianity has largely forgotten the importance of the Protestant Reformation, which took place during the 1500s. “The sixteenth century presents the spectacle of a stormy sunrise after a dismal night. Europe awoke from long sleep of superstition. The dead arose. The witnesses to truth who had been silenced and slain stood up once more and renewed their testimony. The martyred confessors reappeared in the Reformers. There was a cleansing of the spiritual sanctuary. Civil and religious liberty were inaugurated. The discovery of printing and revival of learning accelerated the movement. There was progress everywhere. Columbus struck across the ocean and opened a new hemisphere to view. Rome was shaken on her seven hills, and lost one-half of her dominions. Protestant nations were created. The modern world was called into existence” [1]

The powerful impact that the Reformers made in identifying the Roman Catholic Church as the antichrist can scarcely be imagined today. As millions of Christians joined the Reform movement, the Papal Roman Church attempted to use methodology that has proved successful for more than a thousand years in order to eliminate those whom it designated as heretics. With the exception of the isolated communities of faithful Christians (often hidden in the natural fortresses of the earth), the Church had been remarkably successful in its persecution. This success had been achieved by the arm of the state, which ruthlessly eliminated millions of those who would not bow to the Church’s authority.

Historians fail to agree on the number of people who were tortured and martyred for their efforts to uphold pure Bible truth, but estimates range from 50,000,000 to 120,000,000 Christian Saints. These men, women, and children lost their lives during the period of papal domination. Almost all of this persecuting was done at the hand of secular governments which subserved the designs of the Papacy.

The period of the sixteenth century proved different. Sickened by the excesses and corruptions of the Papacy, many monarchs and rulers embraced the Protestant Reformation, and were no longer vassals of the Papacy, obeying its commands; thus, in a number of European countries, the arm of flesh was not available to carry out the Roman Church’s dictates. This situation naturally alarmed the Roman Catholic Church. The Papacy was not accustomed to this circumstance; therefore, it discerned that a new methodology had to be devised in order to counter the rapid spread of the Reformation engulfing Europe. Germany, Switzerland, Holland, Scandinavia, Britain, and other countries all generally accepted the messages of the Reformers.

For almost a thousand years, Europe had been ruled by the iron hand of Rome. Only a few Bibles existed then and Christianity was largely permeated with superstition. Faith in Jesus Christ, heartfelt appreciation for His love, and a simple trust in His death on the cross, were almost unknown. The New Testament truth about grace, full forgiveness, and the free gift of eternal life to believers in the Son of God (Romans 6:23), had been buried under a mass of tradition. Then Martin Luther arose like a lion in Germany. After a period of tremendous personal struggle, Martin Luther began teaching justification by faith in Jesus Christ (being declared “just” by God), rather than through reliance on “creature merits,” or any human works (Romans 1:16; 3:26, 28; 5:1).

Luther’s Discovery

Eventually, Martin Luther turned to the prophecies. By candlelight, he read about the “little horn,” the “man of sin,” and “the beast,” and he was shocked as the Holy Spirit spoke to his heart. Finally, he saw the truth and said to himself, “Why, these prophecies apply to the Roman Catholic Church!” As he wrestled with this new insight, the voice of God echoed loudly in his soul, saying, “Preach the word!” (2 Timothy 4:2). And so, at the risk of losing his life, Martin Luther preached publicly and in print to an astonished people that Papal Rome was indeed the Antichrist of Bible prophecy. Because of this dual message of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ apart from works and of Papal Rome being the Antichrist, the river of history literally changed its course. Hundreds of thousands of people in Europe and in England left the Catholic Church.

“‘There are two great truths that stand out in the preaching that brought about the Protestant Reformation,’ American Bible Commentator, Ralph Woodrow, reminds us, ‘The just shall live by faith, not by the works of Romanism and the Papacy is the Antichrist of Scripture.’ It was a message for Christ and against Antichrist. The entire Reformation rests upon this twofold testimony.’” [2] It has been said that the Reformation first discovered Jesus Christ, and then, in the blazing light of Christ, it discovered the Antichrist. This mighty, Spirit filled movement, for Christ and against the Antichrist, shook the world.

H. Grattan Guinness wrote these memorable words: “From the first, and throughout, that movement [the Reformation] was energized and guided by the prophetic word. Luther never felt strong and free to war against the Papal apostasy till he recognized the pope as antichrist. It was then that he burned the Papal bull. Knox’s first sermon, the sermon that launched him on his mission as a reformer, was on the prophecies concerning the Papacy. The reformers embodied their interpretations of prophecy in their confessions of faith, and Calvin in his ‘Institutes.’ All of the reformers were unanimous in the matter, even the mild and cautious Melanchthon was as assured of the antipapal meaning of these prophecies as was Luther himself. And their interpretation of these prophecies determined their reforming action. It led them to protest against Rome with extraordinary strength and undaunted courage. It nerved them to resist the claims of the apostate Church to the utmost. It made them martyrs; it sustained them at the stake. And the views of the Reformers were shared by thousands, by hundreds of thousands. They were adopted by princes and peoples. Under their influence nations abjured their allegiance to the false priest of Rome. In the reaction that followed, all the powers of hell seemed to be let loose upon the adherents of the Reformation. War followed war: tortures, burnings, and massacres were multiplied. Yet the Reformation stood undefeated and unconquerable. God’s word upheld it, and the energies of His Almighty Spirit. It was the work of Christ as truly as the founding of the Church eighteen centuries ago; and the revelation of the future which he gave from heaven, that prophetic book with which the Scripture closes, was one of the mightiest instruments employed in its accomplishment.” [3]

A Counter Reformation

In 1545, the Catholic Church convened one of its most famous councils in history, which took place north of Rome in a city called Trent. The Council of Trent actually continued for three sessions, ending in 1563. One of the main purposes of this Council was for Catholics to plan a counterattack against Martin Luther and the Protestants. Thus the Council of Trent became a centre for Rome’s Counter Reformation. Up to this point, Rome’s main method of attack had been largely frontal such as the open burning of Bibles and of heretics. Yet this warfare only confirmed in the minds of Protestants the conviction that Papal Rome was indeed the Beast which would “make war with the saints” (Revelation 13:7). Therefore a new tactic was needed, something less obvious. This is where the Jesuits come in.

On August 15, 1534, a Spanish soldier, Ignatius Loyola, who had recovered from serious wounds sustained in war, established a new order of priests and brothers—The Society of Jesus, better known today as the Jesuits. Loyola was born in 1491, just six years after Luther. After meditation in the famous monastery of Montserrat, in the north-eastern corner of Spain, he vowed to forsake his former ways and became "a soldier of God." He symbolized this vow by placing his weapons on the altar of the monastery.

With six other young men, he attempted a pilgrimage to Jerusalem in 1537 but was unable to reach his desired destination because of war. As a result, in 1537 he spent time in Venice, Italy, where he seeked Papal approval to form his society. This new Catholic order was approved by the beleaguered Pope Paul III in September 27, 1540. The order was established under the strict organization of a medieval army. Loyola became the first general. Before his death in 1556, the Jesuit order had been established in Spain, Italy, Portugal, France, Germany, parts of South America, and Asia. He was canonized by the Roman Catholic Church in 1622.

Loyola was an intelligent, persuasive leader with a remarkable inclination for clever scheming. His order (the Jesuits) arose during the excitement of the Reformation, and soon attracted some of the most intelligent and ingenious youths of the Roman Catholic Church. This order quickly attained the reputation of containing the intelligentsia of the Church. The order’s leader was referred to as the black pope, and the order became so powerful that there were times when it threatened the very Church that its members were pledged to defend. For a time, the order was banned by the Church.

Historically, we might compare this order to Darth Vader’s Evil Empire in the classic Star Wars films. The Jesuits definitely have a dark history of intrigue and sedition, that’s why they were expelled from Portugal (1759), France (1764), Spain (1767), Naples (1767), and Russia (1820). “Jesuit priests have been known throughout history as the most wicked political arm of the Roman Catholic Church. Edmond Paris, in his scholarly work, The Secret History of the Jesuits, reveals and documents much of this information.” [4] At the Council of Trent, the Catholic Church gave the Jesuits the specific assignment of destroying Protestantism and bringing people back to the Mother Church. This was to be done not only through the Inquisition and through torture, but also through theology.

The Jesuit Commission

At the Council of Trent, the Jesuits were commissioned by the Pope to develop a new interpretation of Scripture that would counteract the Protestant application of the Bible’s antichrist prophecies to the Roman Catholic Church. There were two significant issues of paramount concern; justification by faith (with particular emphasis on its relationship to salvation) and the Protestant identification of the Papacy as the antichrist of Scripture. In regards to the topic of justification by faith, the bishops, by majority vote, declared that the gospel incorporated both justification and sanctification. Sadly, they defined sanctification, not as mediated by faith alone, but according to the seven "sacred" sacraments (baptism, confirmation, Mass, extreme unction, penance, matrimony, and holy orders); thus the pagan concept of salvation by works was retained.

The subject concerning the antichrist was an altogether different challenge. The arguments of the Protestant Reformers had been so persuasive that even some loyal Roman Catholics were uneasy. It was perceived that debate and dialogue were unlikely to settle the issue; thus it became imperative that the Roman Church assert a different interpretation of the scriptural prophecy which pinpointed the identity of the antichrist in order to remove attention from the Papacy. Realizing that the goal of the recently established Jesuits was to derail the Protestant Reformation by whatever means was possible, they directed their finest young scholars to the task of turning Protestant scholars away from their identification of the Papacy as the antichrist.

Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, basically said, “Here am I, send me.” Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, that man of sin, and the Beast. But because the Pope was his boss, he came to conclusions vastly different from that of the Protestants. “Why, these prophecies don’t apply to the Catholic Church at all!” Ribera said. Then to whom do they apply? Ribera proclaimed, “To only one sinister man who will rise up at the end of time!” “Fantastic!” was the reply from Rome, and this viewpoint was quickly adopted as the official Roman Catholic position on the Antichrist.

“In 1590, Ribera published a commentary on the Revelation as a counter-interpretation to the prevailing view among Protestants which identified the Papacy with the Antichrist. Ribera applied all of Revelation but the earliest chapters to the end time rather than to the history of the Church. Antichrist would be a single evil person who would be received by the Jews and would rebuild Jerusalem.” [5] “Ribera denied the Protestant Scriptural Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2) as seated in the church of God - asserted by Augustine, Jerome, Luther and many reformers. He set on an infidel Antichrist, outside the church of God.” [6] “The result of his work [Ribera’s] was a twisting and maligning of prophetic truth.” [7]

Following close behind Francisco Ribera was another brilliant Jesuit scholar, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (1542-1621) of Rome. Between 1581 and 1593, Cardinal Bellarmine published his “Polemic Lectures Concerning the Disputed Points of the Christian Belief Against the Heretics of this Time.” In these lectures, he agreed with Ribera. “The futurist teachings of Ribera were further popularized by an Italian cardinal and the most renowned of all Jesuit controversialists. His writings claimed that Paul, Daniel, and John had nothing whatsoever to say about the Papal power. The futurists’ school won general acceptance among Catholics. They were taught that antichrist was a single individual who would not rule until the very end of time.” [8] Through the work of these two tricky Jesuit scholars, we might say that a brand new baby was born into the world. Protestant historians have given this baby a name - Jesuit Futurism. In fact, Francisco Ribera has been called the Father of Futurism.

Antichrist, according to Ribera’s commentary which was finished in 1585 and published in 1590, would be a single diabolical individual who would arise at the end of time. He would be received by the Jews, and would re-establish Jerusalem and the temple; further, he would abolish Christianity, revile Christ, and terribly persecute all Christians during his three and a half year reign. The fact that the futurist view of prophecy was of Jesuit origin will be alarming to many Evangelical Protestants. It deeply concerns many Protestants that the thesis of Ribera is so closely aligned to the modern futurist view held by fundamentalist Protestants.

Defining the Issue
Before we go much farther, let’s define some terms.
Preterism is the view that the majority of the prophecies of the book of Daniel have already been fulfilled and therefore have no significance for the present day. The origins of the Preterist view of prophetic interpretation was from the Spanish Jesuit Luis De Alcazar.

Historicism is the belief that Biblical prophecies about the little horn, the man of sin, the Antichrist, the Beast, and the Babylonian Harlot of Revelation 17, all apply to the developing history of Christianity and to the ongoing struggle between Jesus Christ and Satan within the Christian Church, culminating at the end of time. Historicism sees these prophecies as having a direct application to Papal Rome as a system whose doctrines are actually a denial of the New Testament message of free salvation by grace through simple faith in Jesus Christ, apart from works. Historicism was the primary prophetic viewpoint of the Protestant Reformers.

In direct opposition to Historicism, and rising up as a razor sharp counterattack on Protestantism, was the Evil Empire of the Jesuits with their viewpoint of Futurism, which basically says, “The Antichrist prophecies have nothing to do with the history of Papal Rome, rather, they apply to only one sinister man who comes at the end.”

Thus Jesuit Futurism sweeps 1,500 years of prophetic history under the proverbial rug by inserting its infamous GAP. The GAP theory teaches that when Rome fell, prophecy stopped, only to continue again right around the time of the Rapture. Thus the ten horns, the little horn, the Beast, and the Antichrist have nothing to do with Christians today. According to this viewpoint, how many prophecies were being fulfilled during the Dark Ages? None, Zero.

The Spanish Jesuit Francisco Ribera puts the antichrist into a future three and a half literal years while De Alcazar's Preterism identifies the antichrist as Nero. Both of them achieve their goal by placing the antichrist outside of the Middle Ages and the Protestant reformation period that is identified by Protestant Historicists as the antichrist's reign of 1260 dark prophetic years.

Inroads in Protestantism

For almost 300 years after the Council of Trent, this Roman Catholic baby (Jesuit Futurism) remained largely inside the crib of Catholicism, but the plan of the Jesuits was that this baby would grow up and finally be adopted by Protestants. This adoption process actually began in the early 1800s in England, and from there it spread to America. The story of how this happened is both fascinating and tragic. As I briefly share some of the highlights, I want to clarify that many of those whom I will mention were (and are) genuine Christians. But is it possible for a Christian to unknowingly become a channel for error? In other words, can a sincere Christian be used by both Jesus Christ and the devil? At first we might say, “Never!” but consider this. In Matthew 16, Jesus told Peter that God was blessing him as he shared his faith in Christ (Matthew 16:15-17), and then just a few minutes later, Peter yielded to temptation and Satan spoke through him (Matthew 16:21-23)! This proves that a Christian can be used by both God and Lucifer, and all within a short space of time. I call this the Peter Principle.
“The Futurism of Ribera never posed a positive threat to the Protestants for three centuries. It was virtually confined to the Roman Church. But early in the nineteenth century it sprang forth with vehemence and latched on to Protestants of the Established Church of England.” [9] Dr. Samuel Roffey Maitland (1792-1866), a lawyer and Bible scholar, became a librarian to the Archbishop of Canterbury. It is very likely that one day he discovered Ribera’s commentary in the library. In any event, in 1826 he published a widely read book attacking the Reformation and supporting Ribera’s idea of a future one man Antichrist. For the next ten years, in tract after tract, he continued his anti-Reformation rhetoric. As a result of his zeal and strong attacks against the Reformation in England, the Protestantism of that very nation which produced the King James Bible (1611) received a crushing blow.

After Dr. Maitland came James H. Todd, a professor of Hebrew at the University of Dublin. Todd accepted the futuristic ideas of Maitland, publishing his own supportive pamphlets and books. Then came John Henry Newman (1801-1890), a member of the Church of England and a leader of the famous Oxford Movement (1833-1845). In 1850, Newman wrote his “Letter on Anglican Difficulties” revealing that one of the goals in the Oxford Movement was to finally absorb “the various English denominations and parties” back into the Church of Rome. After publishing a pamphlet endorsing Todd’s futurism about a one man Antichrist, Newman soon became a full Roman Catholic, and later even a highly honoured Cardinal. Through the influence of Maitland, Todd, Newman, and others, a definite “Romeward movement was already arising, destined to sweep away the old Protestant landmarks, as with a flood.” [10]

Then came the much respected Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving (1792-1834), the acknowledged forerunner of both the Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements. Irving pastored the large Chalcedonian Chapel in London with over 1,000 members. When Irving turned to the prophecies, he eventually accepted the one man Antichrist idea of Todd, Maitland, Bellarmine, and Ribera, yet he went a step further. Somewhere around 1830, Edward Irving began to teach the unique idea of a two phase return of Christ, the first phase being a secret rapture prior to the rise of the Antichrist. Where he got this idea is a matter of much dispute. Journalist Dave MacPherson believes Irving accepted it is a result of a prophetic revelation given to a young Scottish girl named Margaret McDonald. [11] In any case, the fact is, Irving taught it!

In the midst of this growing anti-Protestant climate in England, there arose a man by the name of John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). A brilliant lawyer, Pastor, and theologian, he wrote more than 53 books on Bible subjects. A much respected Christian and a man of deep piety, Darby took a strong stand in favour of the infallibility of the Bible in contrast with the liberalism of his day. He became one of the leaders of a group in Plymouth, England, which became known as the Plymouth Brethren. Darby’s contribution to the development of evangelical theology has been so great that he has been called The Father of Modern Dispensationalism. Yet John Nelson Darby, like Edward Irving, also became a strong promoter of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture followed by a one man Antichrist. In fact, this teaching has become a hallmark of Dispensationalism.

Dispensationalism is the theory that God deals with mankind in major dispensations or periods. According to Darby, we are now in the “Church Age,” that is, until the Rapture. After the Rapture, then the seven year period of Daniel 9:27 will supposedly kick in and this is when the Antichrist will rise up against the Jews. In fact, John Nelson Darby laid much of the foundation for the present popular removal of Daniel’s 70th week away from history and from Jesus Christ in favour of applying it to a future Tribulation after the Rapture. Thus, in spite of all the positives of his ministry, Darby followed Maitland, Todd, Bellarmine, and Ribera by incorporating the teachings of Futurism into his theology. This created a link between John Nelson Darby, the Father of Dispensationalism and the Jesuit Francisco Ribera, the Father of Futurism. Darby visited America six times between 1859-1874, preaching in all of its major cities, during which time he definitely planted the seeds of Futurism in American soil. The child of the Jesuits was growing up.

Futurism in America
One of the most important figures in this whole drama is Cyris Ingerson Scofield (1843-1921), a Kansas lawyer who was greatly influenced by the writings of Darby. In 1909, Scofield published the first edition of his famous Scofield Reference Bible. In the early 1900s, this Bible became so popular in American Protestant Bible Schools that it was necessary to print literally millions of copies. Yet, in the much respected footnotes of this very Bible, Scofield injected large doses of the fluid of Futurism also found in the writings of Darby, Todd, Maitland, Bellarmine, and Ribera. Through the Scofield Bible, the Jesuit child reached young adulthood. The doctrine of an Antichrist still to come was becoming firmly established inside 20th century American Protestantism.

The Moody Bible Institute and the Dallas Theological Seminary have strongly supported the teachings of John Nelson Darby, and this has continued to fuel Futurism’s growth. Then in the 1970s, Pastor Hal Lindsey, a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, released his blockbuster book The Late Great Planet Earth. This 177 page, easy to read volume brought Futurism to the masses of American Christianity, and beyond. The New York Times labelled it “The number one best-seller of the decade.” Over 30 million copies have been sold, and it has been translated into over 30 languages. Through The Late Great Planet Earth, the child of Jesuit Futurism became a man.

Left Behind
Then came Left Behind. In the 1990s, Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins took the future one man antichrist idea of Hal Lindsey, Scofield, Darby, Irving, Newman, Todd, Maitland, Bellarmine, and Ribera, and turned it into “The most successful Christian-fiction series ever.” [12] Hal Lindsey’s book, The Late Great Planet Earth, was largely theological, which limited its appeal, while Left Behind is a sequence of highly imaginative novels, “overflowing with suspense, action, and adventure,” a “Christian thriller,” with a “label its creators could never have predicted: blockbuster success.” [13] The much respected television ministries of Jack Van Impe, Peter and Paul Lalonde, and Pastor John Hagee have all worked together to produce LEFT BEHIND: The Movie. The entire project has even caught the attention of the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, resulting in an interview of LaHaye and Jenkins on Larry King Live. The Left Behind books have been made available on displays at WalMart, Fry’s Electronics, and inside countless other stores.

Again let me clarify, I believe the authors of Left Behind and the leaders of these television ministries are genuine Christians who are doing their best to influence people for the Kingdom. God is using them, just like the Father spoke through Peter when he firmly confessed his faith in Christ (Matthew 16:15-17). Remember that Peter Principle. There is much that is good in Left Behind which God can use to influence people for Jesus Christ. But in the full light of Scripture, prophecy, and the Protestant Reformation, something is terribly wrong. Left Behind is now teaching the very same Jesuit Futurism of Francisco Ribera which is hiding the real truth about the Antichrist. Through Left Behind, the floodgates of Futurism have been opened, unleashing a massive tidal wave of false prophecy which is now sweeping over America. Sadly, it is a false “idea whose time has come.”

The Prophetic Foundation

As we have already seen, the theological foundation for the entire Left Behind series is the application of the “seven years” of Daniel 9:27 to a future period of Tribulation. Are you ready for this? Guess who was one of the very first scholars to slice Daniel’s 70th week away from the first 69 weeks, sliding it down to the end of time? It was the Evil Empire’s very own Francisco Ribera! “Ribera’s primary apparatus was the seventy weeks. He taught that Daniel’s 70th week was still in the future… It was as though God put a giant rubber band on this Messianic time measure. Does this supposition sound familiar? This is exactly the scenario used by Hal Lindsey and a multitude of other current prophecy teachers.” [14]

When most Christians look at the last 1,500 years, how much fulfilled prophecy do they see? None, zero, because almost everything is now being applied to a future time period after the Rapture. As we have seen, this GAP idea originated with the Jesuits and its insertion into the majority of 21st century prophetic teaching is now blinding millions of hearts and eyes to what has gone before and to what is happening right now inside the Church. “It is this GAP theory that permeates Futurism’s interpretation of all apocalyptic prophecy.” [15] In love and in the Spirit of Jesus Christ, someone should publicly appeal to the major prophetic television ministries of today to re-evaluate their positions. Hopefully, like noble ships with a new command from their captain, they will yet change their course.

Jesuit Futurism has now become like a giant, seven foot, 400 pound boxer, with spiked gloves. With a seemingly all powerful punch, it has almost knocked Protestant Historicism entirely out of the ring. “The proper eschatological term for the view most taught today is Futurism…which fuels the confusion of Dispensationalism. The futuristic school of Bible prophecy came from the Roman Catholic Church, specifically her Jesuit theologians.…However the alternative has been believed for centuries. It is known as Historicism.” [16] “It is a matter for deep regret that those who hold and advocate the Futurist system at the present day, Protestants as they are for the most part, are thus really playing into the hands of Rome, and helping to screen the Papacy from detection as the Antichrist.” [17]

Who Had It Right?

Who had the right theology? Those who were burned at the stake for Jesus Christ or those who lit the fires? Who had the true Bible doctrine? The martyrs or their persecutors? Who had the correct interpretation of the Antichrist? Those who died trusting in the blood of Christ, or those who shed the blood of God’s dear saints? Dear reader, the Evil Empire of Jesuit Futurism is now at war with the Protestant Reformation by denying its power packed application of prophecy to the Vatican. “The futurist school of Bible prophecy was created for one reason, and one reason only: to counter the Protestant Reformation!” [18] In fact, this Evil Empire of Jesuit Futurism is at war with the prophecies of the Word of God itself! And if that’s not enough, consider this. Jesuit Futurism originated with the Roman Catholic Church, which makes it the very doctrine of the Antichrist! And when Christian ministries and movies like A Thief in the Night, Apocalypse, Revelation, Tribulation, and Left Behind, proclaim an Antichrist who comes only after the Rapture, what are they really doing? I shudder to even say it. Are you ready for this? They are sincerely and yet unknowingly teaching the doctrine of the Antichrist!
It’s time we realized that Futurism is a failure.

A note for and about Catholics
Humble apologies to all Catholics but genuine love demands the identification of the antichrist power so that no honest person will be deceived, for eternity is at stake. While identifying the Roman Catholic Church as the antichrist power, we hasten to remind all sincere Christians that many of Christ’s true followers are still members of this Church. They are unaware of the great deception under which they worship. The Saviour died for them as well as people of all other faiths. The present is surely the time for love to be expressed in sincere action as these precious saints are called out of apostasy into the light of God’s saving truth.

References (emphases added unless otherwise noted)

1. H. Grattan Guinness, Romanism and the Reformation, p. 122.
2. Michael de Semlyen, All Roads Lead to Rome, Dorchester House Publications, Dorchester House, England, 1991,pp. 202, 203.
3. H. Grattan Guinness, Romanism and the Reformation, pp. 136, 137.
4. Seventy Weeks: The Historical Alternative, by Robert Caringola. Abundant Life Ministries Reformed Press, 1991, p. 31.
5. George Eldon Ladd, The Blessed Hope: A Biblical Study of the Second Advent and the Rapture. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1956, pp. 37-38.
6. Ralph Thompson, Champions of Christianity in Search of Truth, p. 89.
7. Robert Caringola, Seventy Weeks: The Historical Alternative, p. 32.
8. Great Prophecies of the Bible, by Ralph Woodrow, p. 198.
9. Ralph Thompson, Champions of Christianity in Search of Truth, p. 91.
10. H. Grattan Guinness, History Unveiling Prophecy or Time as an Interpreter, New York: Fleming H. Revell Co., 1905, p. 289.
11. The Incredible Cover-Up: Exposing the Origins of Rapture Theories, by Dave MacPherson. Omega Publications, Medford Oregon. 1980.
12. Publishers Weekly.
13. Entertainment Weekly.
14. Robert Caringola, Seventy Weeks: The Historical Alternative, p. 35.
15. Ralph Thompson, Champions of Christianity in Search of Truth, p. 90.
16. Robert Caringola, Seventy Weeks: The Historical Alternative, p. 6.
17. Daniel and the Revelation: The Chart of Prophecy and Our Place In It, A Study of the Historical and Futurist Interpretation, by Joseph Tanner, London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1898, p. 16.
18. Robert Caringola, Seventy Weeks: The Historical Alterative, p. 34.

All content taken from: http://www.futurist-futurism.com/

In Christ.

All unfulfilled portions of the visions of the Bible prophets are still pending for future completion. This is a biblical fact. This is easily demonrated by comparison of the prophetic scriptures and the known records of history. There is nothing recorded in the scope of the visions of earthly events between the end of the 69th week decreed for national Israel [about 33 A.D.] and the beginning of the 70th week which is still future. Those who attempt to place historical events on the earth into the visions are playing with the Word of the Lord. This behavior has generated many of the false teachings and divisions of "professing" christianity in a number of ways and those who do it cannot give evidence of congruency with any known historical events in the breach and the literal scriptures of the unfulfilled visions. This is because they are not there. This force fitting is all necessarily speculation and story telling, and it is a process of adding arbitarily to the scriptures which the Lord has warned against. Preterism and historical exegesis are both the inventions of men and these methodologies set up the potential for selective interpretation which leads to the designs of the false prophet and false teacher. Many have done and do this very thing and have led their followers off course, intentionally or unintentionally. The list is long and the division is legion. Straying from the recorded time frames and related time lapse of the prophetic scriptures has given rise to a convolution of confusion and discord among the denominational sectors of "professing" christianity. Failure to adhere to the clear teaching of the scriptures on this issue alone is paramount and the habit has played directly into the hands of the devil. Look around.

"All unfulfilled portions of the visions of the Bible prophets are still pending for future completion. This is a biblical fact. This is easily demonrated by comparison of the prophetic scriptures and the known records of history. "

Funny that you mention that we have to compare prophecy with history and still do not believe that the historic evidence that is readily available justifies the interpretation?

Why was there a reformation in the Christian era? Reformers found falsehood in the teachings of the Catholic Church and turned against the very church they were a part of. If you noticed, the devil always tried to subdue Truth. When the truth surfaced, the Church again tried to subdue it. This time a new tactic. They countered the reformation with a Twisted theology. That theology is being taught widely across the world and is, surprisingly, being accepted as the truth. It is saddening to say that you are a victim of this teaching.

Tell me, are people who are being taught this doctrine (I refer to the supposed 7 year tribulation in the future) preparing for Christ's coming or are they simply waiting for the tribulation to start so that they can repent and be saved when Jesus comes 'again'? My guess for a percentage is 50-50. This makes the devil happy. Why? Because he has managed to deceive. He is the father of lies and the greatest deceiver.

Futurism and Preterism revolve around speculation. The historic view is the right one. It is the most logical explanation.

Futurism (and Preterism) take a person's mind away from the current truth and make them look forward to something that will not happen! Aren't people becoming Blind willingly? They are.

God's Word is never wrong. Our interpretations are. Futurism and Preterism fall under the category of 'WronG'.

May God help us understand the truth.

"Funny that you mention that we have to compare prophecy with history and still do not believe that the historic evidence that is readily available justifies the interpretation?"

>The comparison validates the fact that the events of historical record of the last 2,000 years is not in the scope of the visions of the Bible prophets. You cannot successfully stuff two millennia of events of historical record into the visions ... none of them. You say the "reformation" movement among many others are there. Show me the scriptures that describe the reformation movement as a part of the Biblical record. You cannot. And the reason is, it is simply not there. There are many significant events of past history that are simply not in the scriptures .... missing. There are also many events contained in the visions that are still pending and have never happened. You will not gain an understanding and correct rendering of the visions of the Bible prophets until you discover the breach in the scope of the visions.

I have to congratulate originator of this theology. He did a very good job in convincing people that most of the prophetic visions are yet to be fulfilled!

Revelation's 7 churches span the 2000 years (which, I guess, you presume to be absent in prophecy)
How 'bout the seals? Do they speak of the future too? No! They have been opened. History bears record.

How true it is that a small deviation of one degree in angle can be many degrees apart at the end!

Check out this link. It is a beautiful rendition of the Seven Seals.
The Seven Seals Chart

This explains the 2000 years as well as the Reformation (5th Seal).

The Fifth Seal

Revelation 6:9-11 “And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”

Under the altar the souls of them that were slain...– The word ‘souls’ in scripture is often referred to as persons 1 Peter 3:20, Genesis 46:18, 22, 25-27, Acts 2:41, 27:37. These persons were slain, that is, had been slain placing it in the past tense. This would naturally mean that these persons that were slain are those that lost their life under the Pale Horse of the Fourth Seal (great persecution during the time of Papal supremacy).

Notice why they had been slain. They were slain because of their faith in God’s word and because of the witness they bore in their own lives. They had sealed the faith with their blood. But why are they depicted us being under the altar?

The altar was in the courtyard of the sanctuary, and it was at the base of this altar that the blood of the sacrifice was poured out Leviticus 4:7. When applying this to the true tabernacle (the heavenly sanctuary), we find that there are only to apartments of the sanctuary in heaven. The courtyard, where this altar is located, we find to be this earth. A careful study of types and antitypes will show that the work that was carried out in the courtyard of the earthly sanctuary, were a type of what Christ would accomplish here on earth. A small example of this is as follows; the sacrifice was slain in the courtyard. Christ, our sacrifice, was slain upon this earth.

Thus this shows that the persons were martyred and their blood spilt, or poured out, upon this earth.

They cried with a loud voice - In Genesis 4:9-10 we have the following, “And the LORD said unto Cain, Where [is] Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: [Am] I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.”

It is their innocent blood that has been shed that cries out for justice to be done.

How long...dost thou not judge and avenge - This clearly shows that these event are pre-judgment, that is, pre 1844. For the question asked is ‘how long...dost thou not judge.’ This also shows that those that have put to death the faithful are not being punished at this time. Vengeance belongs to God Hebrews 10:30, and they will be ultimately avenged when the wicked are destroyed in the lake of fire Revelation 20:15.

White robes were given to every one of them - White robes were given to each of the martyrs.

Those that were martyred for the word of God and the witness that they lived, by the apostate church, were regarded as the most basest of criminals. Their characters were painted the blackest of black when being burnt at the stake, generally the victims had placed on their heads a paper mitre that had demons painted on it. This was to indicate that they were basically demons in human form. There was to be no mercy shown to them. But how then were they given white robes?

White is a symbol of overcomers Revelation 3:5, also of righteousness Revelation 19:8. How then could they be seen as such when they were seen as the basest of criminals with the blackest of characters? The Protestant Reformation dramatically changed the opinion of the world concerning the martyrs.

“But the Reformation began its work. It began to be seen that the church was the corrupt and disreputable party, and those against whom it vented its rage were good, and pure, and the true. The work went on amongst the most enlightened nations, the reputation of the church going down, and that of the martyrs coming up, until the corruptions of the papal abominations were fully exposed, and that the huge system of iniquity stood forth before all the world in all its naked deformity, while the martyrs were vindicated from all the aspersions under which that anti-Christian church had sought to bury them. Then it was seen that they had suffered, not for being vile and criminal, but “for the word of God, and the testimony which they held.” Then their praises were sung, their virtues admired, their fortitude applauded, their names honoured, and their memories cherished. White robes were thus given unto every one of them.” Daniel and the Revelation, by Uriah Smith, pg 413.

Rest yet for a little season... - Their total vindication was to be after the martyrdom of their fellow servants and brethren. Even though the Reformation was spreading from country to country, Rome was still putting to death God’s faithful people. But we also see that before the close of Probation there will be death to those that do not worship the beast and his image Revelation 13:15-17.

Period of the fifth seal 1517 - 1798.


As one topic starter has it, "we are living at the end, but still in Biblical times!" God did not miss or leave out any thing. He is perfect and so is His Word.

I'm coming into this thread a bit late. I blame my isp

Christopitt, I have often wondered why there were no warnings for others throughout history only us. Which seemed a bit unfair when you consider the crusades, the fate of the Jews in WW2 and other terrible times in our history since the bible was written. I could never reconcile myself to God not caring much about those folks and I think that is because I was being taught under a completely futurist view. In trying to view this from another perspective I have become quite enlightened in my own brain at least. I have been in need of a few ah ha! moments lately. Now I'm back online, God willing, I can finish this little journey I started some months back. I thank you for the info you have provided as well as others.

WOW Christopitt!! I studied Church History years ago, but never got into the details that you have revealed here. Could I get your permission to print this out? It's obvious to me, that you are a writer and Bible Scholar, and that you aren't going to reveal your works here. That's fine by me, because you have done something much more valuable...you have pointed the way back to the Cross, the Message of Salvation, Love and Loyalty to Jesus rather than any religion or institution, and confirmed my suspicions regarding the millions of dollars in profits being made from teaching confusing "end-of-time" doctrines.

I don't have anywhere near your ability or knowledge that I can express my beliefs the way that you do, but I always knew that I didn't want to be dogmatic about any theory because I didn't want to be caught off guard. In fact, I always was under the impression that the first and second resurrections happened around the same time, since the elect of all the ages was standing before the King in the clouds in the Judgement Day Scene. This could be wrong of course, but the main thing is that we're ready and waiting. I believe He could be here any time.

It seems to me that some denominations have only come half-way out of Babylon even though they think of themselves as Protestants. There are still churches that teach that Christians must observe the Law AND New Testament teachings....like putting new patches on old wineskins. Others always state that "Faith without works is dead" but don't follow up with clarification about what "works" are. Others ignore the fact that Jesus only had two commandments and that they both encompass loving God and each other. Others take the "narrow gate" warning out of context and use it to control followers with fear, by trying to imply that only a few will be saved. ( Of course, their particular sect has all of the answers so that by joining them, we can have All the ingredients for salvation.)

These teachings, taken out of context, twisted to conform to a "pet theory" or a "tradition of man," makes Salvation seem so complicated and unattainable. It makes being a Christian seem so negative instead of something to rejoice about. The message is so simple that even a child who understands what a free gift is...can figure it out.

Some here, think I'm being arrogant when I stated in my profile, that Heaven is my permanent home. There is nothing I can ever do on my own that can make me righteous. I don't come from a background that I can boast about. On my dad's side there were Nazis, bootleggers, and hot-rodders. My moms ancesters were Brittish spies during the American Revolution, more bootleggers, Hell's Angels, and who-knows-what. If Jesus can save the likes of me and my family...He can save anybody! There are only two ways I can be: His or not His. If Jesus doesn't get me to heaven because of the sacrifice that He made, and the fact that, because he is God and holds the keys to Heaven and Hell, then I won't be there. If I could have made myself righteous by following a set of laws, rules, or traditions, Jesus never would have had to die on that cross.
He didn't die to give me the privilege of earning my way to Heaven. He died to pay for my ticket to Heaven. When Christianity figures this out....we will be completely out of Babylon.

Agreed Sharon. Much of what has confused me about religious messages you have summed up in your summing up of Christopitt's post
However I am still stuck on only two commandments. I guess I still wonder if what Jesus said has not been misrepresented sometimes. Did He not mean that many/most/all of the commandments could be kept easily by keeping these two things in mind?
29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

With that in mind always and living by those two rules one cannot fail to keep all the commandments of God.
Well that's what I feel anyway.

P.S. I keep thinking about my son's little book of bible stories. The commandments are in a chapter called The Best Way to Live. That pops into my mind all the time. I think Adullam has touched on this elsewhere, the simplicity of the message of Jesus. I think this is part of it too. Also C7 has touched on this as have others.

Look a The Judgement Day Scene in Matthew 25:31-

Here, All of the nations are standing before The King, who is now in His full Glory. This is the last day of history on this earth; all of the knowlege of it is now useless. Everything in every database in every computer is now nil. All money and currency is now worthless. There is no more real estate for sale; not here, not in Heaven. Our worldy financial system is gone, soon to be replaced by a one-world government (Heaven) ruled by The King of Kings, (Jesus) in a day that will never end. Even the languages we have spoken on this earth are about to be changed. The only thing going from this life into the next is love; love for Jesus and love for each other.

He divides the sheep from the goats..the goats are condemned and He turns to the sheep:

vs 34; "Then the King will say to those on His right hand (the sheep) come oh blessed of my father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
"I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me."

Then the righteous will answer; "Lord, when did we see you hungy and feed you? or thirsty, and give you a drink?And when did we see you and stranger and wecome you? Or naked, and gave you clothes? Or when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?

And the King will answer them, "Truly I say to you, if you did it to the even the least important one in my kingdom.....you did it unto me.

After all of the religions in the world, all the denominations and divisions, all of the debates and arguments that have ever been held, all of the wars and false pride that these things have caused, all of the books that have been written by man.......look what really weighs the most when all the chips are down and the final roll has been called: plain, common everyday kindness that even a child can do. This seems to be the entire massage of The Kingdom of God. Jesus was the kindest man that ever lived, and he seemed to value that characteristic in his followers, more than anything else.

that's nice sharon. You know what you wrote I was reading about earlier. About the commandments and the fact that they were made law made it a sin not to do them. Before the law was it a sin not to do them? The laws were not flawed but man's view perhaps was and the fact it's harder to climb your way up from the bottome ie a sinner then to start from the top with love. And it reminds me also of the leaven in the bread. Man has added so much more to the simplicity of God's laws. Jesus certainly cleared it up for us again. Anyway just my thoughts.

The laws are pretty much folded in to the commandments that Jesus gave. For instance, if you love your neighbor, you don't commit adultry with his wife, you don't murder him, etc.

There are other laws that were given to the Isrealites for practical reasons, such as the laws of sanitation, the laws regarding farming, the laws regarding family relationships, and more.

The Law was an expression of God's Holiness that man, because of his sinful nature, could not live up to. So we are justified by faith, not on the law that we couldn't follow anyway.... but on the mercy of Jesus. The book of Romans is a great one to read on Justification by Faith.

I just wanted to add a little bit of background to this. Romans was written in response to some problems that arose as the Gentiles were coming in to the newly established Church. Christianity came out of the Jewish religion and many of the Jewish leaders felt that the Gentiles should become Jewish Proselytes first by learning all of the laws. This was causing a lot of problems in the early church, not to mention a whole lot of confusion.

All I can say at this point is "maybe."

In fact, I find myself running back to the word with the thought of "what does the Bible actually say again?"

Here's part of it about the seals:

Revelation 6

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

************************

Somehow, the way these have been supposedly been portrayed in this thread's explanation, although eloquent, just doesn't seem to fit the magnitude of events I read here.

I suppose Christ revealed the above section of passage with the understanding that his people at the end of the world would be extremely knowledgeable history buffs?

No, rather, the foolish confound the wise.

Perhaps the thread's explanation has merit. Types and shadows have existed all throughout history.

Personally, I wonder if the dramatic rise in food prices around the world are leading to the opening of the 3rd seal, if not already open. That is more easily read into scriptures' description of that seal than the Seven Seal chart shows. (Of course, this would mean the white horse rider would be religiously-based terrorism and the 2nd seal red horse would be the war on terror and the effects of the white horse riding. The 4th seal would not be far behind now, with the increase in food prices and disasters occurring in key parts of the world's food production areas.)

The Lord is and will be revealing all in his time.

May the Lord Jesus Christ be glorified.

In Him,

Mike

This seems to be the total opposite of Matthew 25. It's almost like the dark side of the same scene.

Is fine and true to see it all as "has been already" for such it is.

But people who get stuck in their final "revelation" forget one thing:

Ecc 1:9 That which hath been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

So if you prove that it "hath been" you have just proven the first part of Ecc 1:9.....................now you have to wait for the .........]is that which shall be;

The latter fulfillment is always larger than the ones that went before it.

In this verse, we see the stupidity of man. Man forgets to look at history and say: Look it happened like that, so it will happen now like this!

Ecc 1:10 Is there a thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been long ago, in the ages which were before us. Ecc 1:11 There is no remembrance of the former generations; (meaning , man always forgets this and do not look at history ) neither shall there be any remembrance of the latter generations that are to come, among those that shall come after. (This is the case and will be the case.All men think alike)


So you too , are forgetting that history repeats itself, if you think that Revelation "has already been". If we do not see this truth, we miss out on one of the biggest prophetic tools God has given us.

Norman Cousins - "History is a vast early warning system."

Thank you! now I understand what you're saying. In my mind, I know some of these prophecies can happen again. I also try to reconcile the Christian Persecutions under Communism, the Nazis, and now Islam, and many others that I'm not privy to. The persecutions of Christians worldwide, has never stopped.

I have to apologize here because I have a hard time with "thee's" and "thous" and anything written in this particular language. It's not you, the problem is mine.

Once we see this truth in the Bible, and in life itself, we can then look back and learn a lot about the future.

We can see this already in the Old Testament, where the story of Israel is also the story of the church. We can look at Joseph and Esther and all the O.T characters and we can see that they "happened again" but to different people and sometimes to groups (not just an individual)

Every time history repeats, the event gets bigger !

The Bible acknowledges the fact that there are many tribulations, and that is why the last one is called :Mat 24:21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.

We can see the "tribulation" happening in 70AD , they also ran to the mountains and they were persecuted and killed. That was the smaller version of the one that is about to happen. Since then many tribulations have happened, as you correctly point out. But this one, the last one, will be the one that... not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.

I think that 70 AD tribulation was the Fall of Jeruselum that was described in the first half of Matthew 25.

I made a mistake on an earlier post that I need to correct and apologize for. I don't know if I posted this on the same day that I tore my house and my truck apart..looking for my sunglasses, only to discover they were on top of my head, but I wasn't thinking straight when I made this blunder.

In a previous post, I had the Ten Commandments and The Law on my mind as they related to Jesus, and what I should have written is "Jesus condensed the Ten Commandments down to only two commandments, that he called the "greatest."

Matthew 22:37-40 and He said to him: "You shall love The Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your mind, This is the Great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all of the law and the prophets.

Instead I wrote this: ....... Jesus only had two commandments and that they both encompass loving God and each other. I didn't intend to imply that this is all there is, so please forgive me as I would never want to cause somebody to stumble.

Since Jesus came to His own nation first, some passages were clearly given to those of the Jewish religious order:
Matthew 7:28 "And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at His teaching, for He taught them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.

Yet many others, were given to all believers.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God, may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Don't you just hate it when that happens

You have good heart sister . I am sure nobody stumbled, but thank you for correcting what you said .

your brother
C

Thank You C, God Bless You!

I didn't know there was a "Papal Bull"

Can anybody tell me what this is? thanks

-excerpts from: Maniacal World Control Thru The Jesuit Order-- Well-Hidden Soldiers Of Satan:


Martin: This Pope, Ganganelli, suppressed the Jesuits with a Papal Bull?

Phelps: That’s right. Dominus Ac Redemptor. That was the Bull. That is its formal name.

Martin: What is a Bull?

Phelps: A Bull is a legal document that the Pope speaks within his most powerful method of speaking. It’s sealed with “the seal of the fishman”. A “brief” does not have that seal. A brief is a less powerful document; it can be overruled with a Bull.

Martin: So, this Pope, in 1773, issued the Bull eliminating the Jesuit Order forever?

Phelps: Forever! After a 4-year investigation of all their intrigues, of all their power, of all their wealth, of all their buildings, everything, after a 4-year investigation they were abolished by Clement XIV. And, remember, Clement XIII was about to do the same thing when, the night before, he was poisoned.

So, Clement XIV was brought to power then and, after a 4-year investigation, he suppresses them. And when he did so, he said: “This suppression will be my death.”

Martin: And it was.

Phelps: And it was—14 months later, he died. He was poisoned by the Jesuits with a poison called Aquetta.

It’s a slow poison that caused his intestines to have terrible, terrible pain. And when he was embalmed, the intestines exploded and they could not have an open-casket for viewing this Pope. The flesh fell off of his fingers; his fingernails turned black; his skin turned black; all his hair fell out; so they decided they could not have an open display of the Pope in his garb. So they had a closed casket.

Martin: So, this Papal Bull, which was a PERMANENT dismantling of the Jesuit Order, was later overruled?

Phelps: Right.

Martin: Now, how can a permanent disbanding of the Order be overruled at all?

Phelps: The Jesuits came out and said this was not a Bull. Even though, according to Thompson in his Footprints Of The Jesuits, and according the Cusack’s The Black Pope, even though they said it was a Bull, and Thompson said it was in the Library of the Bulls in Rome, even though it’s a Bull, the Jesuits came out and said it was a brief. And, therefore, Pope Pius VII, upon their restoration, he instituted a Bull restoring the Jesuits, which “overruled the brief”. That’s what they teach.

BUT THE FACT IS, THEIR SUPPRESSION WAS A BULL, AND THEIR [contrived] RESTORATION WAS A BULL.

http://www.whale.to/b/phelps4.html

LEFT BEHIND BY THE JESUITS

The rapture theory was created as an anti-reformation tool and protestants have accepted it and made it their own. The Rapture theory is one of the biggest Hoaxes in history. How did these so called protestant christians get tricked? What is the origin of the RAPTURE? What is the purpose of the dispensation theology? Who is behind it? Has it influence world events? I will give you some facts and let you decide.
During the 1500s, when the reformation was blossoming and the reformers identified the papacy as the anti-Christ, the Roman Catholic Church fought back with a series of doctrines designed to confused the people and keep them in the old church of traditions.

The Catholic Church counters the reformation at the Counsel of Trent.. Ignatius Loyola the founder of the Jesuits was commissioned by the Pope to develop a new interpretation of Scripture that would counteract the Protestant application of the Bible’s Antichrist prophecies to the Roman Catholic Church.

Who was Ignatius Loyola?

In 1491 San Ignacio De Loyola was born in the Basque province of Guipuzcoa, Spain. His parents were Marrano Jews. As a young man he became a member of the Jewish Alumbrados (Illuminati) Order in Spain. As a cover for his crypto Jewish activities, he became very active as a Roman Catholic. (How the [b]World Government Rules the Nations) He established the Jesuit order. This secret society not only became a destructive arm of the Roman Catholic Church; it also developed into a secret intelligence service. Loyola, the Catholic hero and occult Illuminist who oversaw the torment and torture of thousands of Protestant and other groups who didn’t agree with the Pope during the inquisition. The secret order he founded, the Jesuits, continues to this day to promote Communism, Zionism, dispensationalism, and the Illuminati agenda which include the total destruction of family, religion, government and the establishment of the New World Order.

The Rapture or "millions missing" fable was invented by 2 Jesuits and is held by most "Protestants" today....It ranks right up there with the fantasy of the moving earth and evolution....No matter how bizarre the believe system is, if it will undermine the Reformation, the Jesuits will embrace it with all the enthusiasm of a fanatic.

http://www.reformation.org/left-behind-by-jesuits.html

was Ignatious the inspiration for this guy?

Ignatio...the grim reaper?

Well... the Jesuit General, who currently is Adolfo Nicholas, answers directly to Satan.

Look who's at the top of the "pyramid":

http://www.vaticanassassins.org/kolvenbach.htm

WOW!! This is so shocking I can't get out of my seat! Are Adolfo and kolvenbach equal, or are they the same person?

[b]Has there ever been a time, a group of people or nation, a war, that has caused a greater tribulation on this earth that was as widespread and long-lasting as this period? It's been many years since I studied the period of The Middle Ages, also called "The Dark Ages", because "the light of the world" (Jesus) had been removed and forbidden. I do remember feeling sick when I saw pages upon pages of torture instruments used by these demons.

Kolvenbach recently resigned and Adolfo was chosen to replace him in January of this year.

See this thread:

ELECTION OF A NEW JESUIT GENERAL, KOLVENBACH RETIRING
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=15387

WILL RETIRED BLACK POPE, KOLVENBACH STILL ORGANIZE WAR OPERATIONS TOR THE VATICAN-LED NEW WORLD ORDER FROM BEHIND THE SCENES?
http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/19-Jan-2008.html

Not to my knowledge.

See this thread:

JESUIT GENERAL IN CONTROL - WORSHIPERS OF LUCIFER
http://www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=17737

What is the purpose of the dispensation theology

I'm not really sure what this is, except that the Church seems to be divided up into seven dispensations. Are these the "seals" in Revelations?

I showed some of these posts to a couple of people today who were "born" Catholics. They both denounced the Pope and decided to go generic (Christian without denominational ties)
One said he was forced to go to a Catholic School where the nuns were real abusive, so he hasn't gone into a Catholic church for years.