This is a very intresting argument. It could go "There are atheists, therefore, it is proof that there is a God."

Christians might interpret your argument "God wanted this atheist to be Christian so he made him join this Christian forum."

In any event, I'm suprised no 1 has told Pastafarian this yet.

So I'll start.

There are 2 ways to believe in God.

The 1st is through proof and evidence. In that case, they will believe in God.

The 2nd is through the lack of proof of evidence. In that case, they will have to believe in God through the premises of faith.

(And all the possibilities in between.)

.

Neal C.

Pasta,

I took time for you. Did you read? What did you think of my testimony?

The only problem with what you said it, I don't believe in this crap, and I don't really care enough to. If it means something to me, I would care, but it doesn't. I see no reason to change my ways or beliefs. Having said that, if there were actually PHYSICAL evidence of god, I would definitely reconsider. I can't believe in god by reading some new or old testaments. (Or tactical as I call them lol)

thank you for your reply, pasta

You seem to be young and I can understand my testimomy is boring to you. I ask you just one favor, would you give Jesus the benefit of the doubt for 6 months?

One reason I can think of is that you are suicidal, depressed and mentally diseased. I am sure that most psychologists confronted with such a mess would be recommending some changes, ways and beliefs.
Do you suppose that the reason that you are in this state is because of your belligerent refusal to admit you are wrong and change?

If I ever considered giving god and Jesus another chance, it would most likely never be for 6 months.
The longest time would be 1 month.



I can see who you would have those suspicions. However I am not suicidal. I have considered it only once, but many years ago and at the moment I am very happy with my life. I have been living the good life compared to some people, especially deno7 from what he has been saying. I am quite happy with my beliefs and am following the holy path of spaghetti sauce and grog. I don't truly believe in the FSM but I much prefer the loose morals (more like suggestions) and fun people. I don't want to offend any of you, but I find Christians to be far too cheery and unrealistically happy. I have also noticed a pattern that a lot of Christians (this is just what I have observed. It doesn't make it true) are very obsessive. This makes me wonder, but again I do not believe that all of you are this way. Just the people I know and how I have seen. To answer your question I do believe I am right and I do not feel that I secretly know I am wrong.

OP .... Alpha slash hotel.




Truly a gifted and novel approach to unbelief....

Congratulations. For the first time in this entire freaking topic, I'm actually speechless. What the hell am I supposed to respond with? That picture totaly blew my concentration, but it did make me lol.

Oh come on Pasta, how long did you give Jesus last time?

Maz, please stop putting disgusting pictures.

I would have to say around 2 years of my life. It didn't work out, we were just too different, so I had to break it off.

Did you read the Gospel on your own and put into practice what you were learning?

There is a blatent honesty in pictures. If that is viewed as disgusting to you so be it. There are many words that are more disgusting than seeing a man pulled down a toilet. In fact many words amount to the same thing and they are not given that accreditation. Stark imagery may shock but it gets the job done and God is into stark imagery....picture these atrocities if you will...see them in your mind's eye...

2Ki 8:12 And Hazael said, Why weepeth my lord? And he answered, Because I know the evil that thou wilt do unto the children of Israel: their strong holds wilt thou set on fire, and their young men wilt thou slay with the sword, and wilt dash their children, and rip up their women with child.

Hey, Pasta. I've heard of FSM, but I gotta tell you something about Christianity (believing in Christ) it's no walk in the park.

If you want to believe in something easy, well perhaps FSM is your cup of tea, but compared to believing in an intangible, unseen being day after day with great conviction strikes grief in my heart.
But that's what it takes, honestly. No way around it.

Luke 9:23
And he said unto all, 'If any one doth will to come after me, let him disown himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me;

That is hard to do.

No one is trying to spin straw into gold and no one is trying to change the little darwin monkey into a God created man.

There is a world of faithless animals like you that were created to have human form, out there chattering and making noise. Your vanity won't allow you to see how worthless to all creation your chattering is.

My question still is little monkey. Why are you here doing nothing but chattering monkey knowledge that we have heard over and over and over?
Did you actually think that what you are doing is an original thing?

You can't hear God's wisdom. You have no foundation for it.

You contradict yourself saying how self sufficient you are and then tell us how poor and mental you are. Your vanity still thinks that you can give God a chance. You can't give God a chance only God can give you a chance. You need to get on your knees and beg God for a chance.

Let me tell you what you are doing here. You are a miserable soul, who is hurting and lost and searching for that miracle that will change you and settle you and save you.

The Irony is that you have to believe that God is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently search for Him.
Before you get anything from Him.

There you have it little monkey either get with The Creators program or get out.

I've never gone by the morals of the bible. I never trusted it (ever), and I had my own morals which were just as good. You don't need the bible for morals, though it's always good to have a set of suggestive guidelines.



Religion shouldn't be difficult, and if it is, it's a waste of time and effort. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't gain you a thing so why would I take time out of my life for something that I don't really care about.



You say that god rewards people, but I have never seen this happen. Have you ever seen someone drive to church in a crappy beat up junker, and then drive away in a Camero? I don't think so, and if there is a god, and I mentioned this earlier, he is nothing more then a kid with an ant farm. Either way, whatever happens to us, he doesn't care. If we all nuke ourselves, then he will just go back to the store and buy another one.
Just so you understand me, I will not bow down to your creator, and I will stay here talking to you all because I have the right to do so. The thing I hate most of all is loosing the right for free speech, and I would kill for that right. You have my word on that.

.. At least you landed here, where we all believe in God!

That's a start. That means you are asking questions. If you don't believe in the Bible, why not ask God directly? Like "are you real, God"?
If God does not answer, then He does not exist and you have won!
But if He does answer...

I too questioned God and asked Him to reveal Himself to me... which He did! When I had a vision of Him, I knew He was real.

Now it's up to you to BELIEVE or not.It all boils down to that: WILL YOU BELIEVE?

Because, my friend, it works by faith!

Hebrews 11:6 For WITHOUT FAITH, it is impossible to please him [God] and he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder for those who dilligently seek him.

We all stand on the same starting block of a giant race. The question is: are we going to finish the race, to keep the faith, the "good fight of faith" as Paul says? The arrival is not for a perishable crown, but for an everlasting crown, the "Crown of Eternal Life"!

I pray to God that you will finish the race in beauty!
God bless you, Pastafarian!

Our Bible tells us (and I believe it) that a BLESSING cannot be cancelled. So, whether you like it or not, or know it or not, or realize it or not,

YOU ARE ALREADY BLESSED!

Ah, the wide gate. Sure. Many travel on that path, it's the easiest to take.

Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

As for me, I'm looking for the narrow gate

At least one gets to drive up in his beat up junker and park beside the Lincoln you helped the pastor pay for...

Seriously, and I realize my words will fall on silent ears...I have been blessed by God and it was following prayers. Wife, home, vehicles, job etc...when I prayed I told God I would never deny it and that I would openly say it and failing a long winded treatise... this is to that end.

I have not been flushed from that bathroom at all.... and if I ever am, at least it would be a royal flush and I will have deserved it.....

Right now I am writing this on the laptop I bought the wife God gave me... at so called Christmas time...and I am writing on it to practice it's use so that when I land in Bonaire next month on a holiday my stepson gave us for being obedient to God's will...I will be in touch with every dorkminister fuller and I will be able to monitor my stock investments with which God is about to multiply me exceedingly...then I am going to buy Hewlett Packard and fire all the executives at a lunch time brouhaha...pizza and beer all the way...

Pasta, this was your problem. If His teachings works in real life, they prove He is telling the truth. Please give Him the chance to prove if He is real. I did and He sure proved it to me and got me as His loyal servant with all my heart, soul, strength and mind.



When it comes to morals, we become self-centerd. Jesus will teach you to change your heart from within. Jesus will change your mentality completely if you trust Him, and put into proctice eveything you are learning from Him.

PS, thank you pasta for not ignoring me. It means a lot to me.

Your heart is buried in the things of satan, judging God by the heart of the devil.

All of the junk that man has created is going into the fire that consumes rocks.

You have no free speech you are compelled by the evil one to speak and you believe his lies.

You are not free at all you serve the devil who God created to take the residue of weaklings off to their prepared destruction.

If there is a man or woman in you it is being told what to say by the understanding and knowledge of the devil.

If you reject Christ you are an antichrist.

You should feel shame.

You should repent.

You should honor your parents.

The problem with Christianity is, there is no hard evidence. I believe that if there is no evidence, then there is no reason to believe. The reason you all have a blind faith towards believing in god, it just our human nature. We long for simplicity and belonging to something, and there is nothing we can do about that. The main issue I have is, again as I said earlier, that people have used religion as a means to gain power and control. Using people’s beliefs for power is the most disgusting way to gain power. As an example, presidential candidate John McCain made a speech saying that the United States is a Christian nation. This to me is selling out to a group of people in order to gain more votes. This is what I call, BSFP (Bull ---- for power). As I was saying, because of human nature and the way I think, I must have valid evidence of anything to truly believe that it is true. There is no clear evidence for any religion, but the one that does come the closest is FSMism, plus I find it a brilliant satire, and I feel welcome there. So don't blame me, blame our own human nature.



I'm not sure what you meant by honoring my parents. I love my mom and dad, and so should you all. But what you have stated there, and I have said this about a lot of your posts now, is your own opinion. There is no evidence that what you say will happen. You’re just an easily offended Christian who doesn't like the way some people think. Well I hate to break it to you, but a large majority of the worlds population doesn't like the way you think either. Those people don't just consist of atheists or pastafarians. Instead they are those of other religions and ethnic backgrounds. The earth has a large population, and all of those people have different opinions. I am thankful for you all to be taking time out of your days to listen to mine.

You are right, we should not use religion to gain power. Jesus is aginst pride, and power sure is pride. Jesus teaches us to be humble.



I don't believe Jesus teaches us getting involve with the politics.



I don't even vote, period.



what is FSMism?

FSMism is the church of the flying spaghetti monster. It may sound silly but it’s absolutely hilarious.

Are you done with me now, pasta? You are not going to take my challenge? following Jesus is the most difficult thing for materialisticl people which is the most of us, because Jesus wants us to give up our selfish worldly desires and abmitions, and live for others.

Jesus will teach you how to live satisfying life without being rich or high education. We will be prepared in every diffiuclt situation that this world brings us.

Is my Bible real? You tell me.

There is one Bible no one can take from me, it is the one written in my heart. It does not consist of mere printed words, with which I can cleverly try to outwit my brother who says he knows more of the Word than me. He slams the words on my cheeks, left, right and then left again. He dazzles me and makes me dizzy with his word contest as if there is a game going, and the score board reads: 115-0.

I just sit there and smile. I swallow the pain, caused by the way he uses the Word on me, meanwhile I pray to God: "God show him what I saw. Show him what Your Love means." I smile once more as he cleverly slamdunks another quote in my basket. I sense his ego dripping of this quoting contest.

As I scroll through the pages of the Word written in my heart, I hear My Lord sigh on the Cross "Father, forgive them for they do not know what they do." and I feel my heart bleed for my brother, who is cleverly slamming and seeing if he can trip me. I feel like I am in the desert, being tested by Satan himself, and me too, keep refusing his offers, for I will not exhalt his ego.

I curl up in my heart and read again what is written in it. The very place no one can take from me, it goes with me wherever I go. I curl up, safe.
The promise that one day God will check my heart, and that on that day all will be there, that I found worth saving, everyone that I found worth saving.
For on that day, I can safely release my heart, and hopefully, my brother, you are in it."

The problem with people nowadays is, they do not believe the proof of the past, nor accept the fact that God told us to have Faith.
The millions of doubting Thomas's nowadays are so blind that the myriads of daily miracles escape their attentions completely, for they are in the hurry, that their god Mammon (Mah Money) has imposed upon them. Until their lives come to a grinding halt...

That is absolutely beautiful Justice

Copy this and save it for another thread as this one will most likely be deleted. Or maybe we can get Shekel to lock this thread here at you post.

Our little swinging monkey needs to know that a Christian Board is just that and there is certain chatter that will not be tolerated on a Christian board.

The little monkey continues to dishonor his mother and father and everyone here with his lies about the Creator of all, and His Son who gave His life and shed His blood for all who will listen and repent.

Don't worry about my postings charlie, what is written in the heart, multiplies by itself =)
Of course I keep local copies.

Charlie is right Justice. That was quite well written and thought up. I applaud you and the way you have expressed your beliefs. Though Charlie here seems to still be a patheticly inconsiterate closeminded lowlife, it hasn't seemed to phase him that I'm staying put and helping all to better understand our own human nature. My points are valid, and though they are not as you believe, they are still valid and possably true.

If everyone who reads this thread would report it and ask Shekel to Close and lock this thread at Justices reply we would all be better off.

We don't need to hear a delinquent's version of human nature and how his worldly satanic points are valid. Almost everyone here came from non belief and most of us had a much deeper and better understanding of the devils vanity than this one.

I am so sorry pasta,

I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were here for sincere reason but I was wrong, again. There are many atheists visit the Christian forums and I still cannot find any sincere ones. They are just visiting the CFs just for intertainment for themselves.

Instead of all this "read read the Bible!" or "read the New Testament!" - why not just say, "watch The Passion of the Christ?" (movie).

God will smite all that do not repent and turn their wicked ways. So be it.

For this I tell you, you are not offending me as much as you do the AllMighty.
I have no reason to fear God, but those who do not fear Him, have a huge reason to fear.

Atheism is wicked?


Let me get this straight - you have no reason to fear God, but to those that don't fear him - have a huge reason to fear.

Am I the only 1 that sees something not making sense with this?

Neal C.

if you go threw the new testament you will see that many did not respond to what Jesus had to say i also see that some off the disciples also found it hard to grasp what he had to say i am not talking about the 12 disciples that stuck close to our lord

and you see this also with new born christians their are some that dont want to surrender and they fall by the way side but it does not mean that jesus has given up on the ones who do fall and go back to their old ways

he will chase them like a hound he did this with me until i surrendered and stopped fighting him

when i walk the streets where i live i run into back slidden christians it puzzles me why i am bumping into back slidden christians but they are out their

i have learnt one thing no one is perfect

only christ is perfect


god bless from damo

You aren't the only one. There are a lot of things that don't make sense, which is the other reason why I have come here. The problem is, is that people are taking offence to it, and it's a little pathetic. There is no need for such harsh behavior.

It makes perfect sense Neal. It is called true humility.
Those who fear God, God will love them because they have understood the beginning of wisdom.
One of the Seven Spirits of God is "The fear of the Lord".
Those who God loves have no reason to fear Him.

Those who do not fear the Lord and do not understand the beginning of wisdom, God will show them why they should.
If the marksman’s bullet finds your head, guess who did it?

God put that one there to do what he did and serve the purpose that he served.

Proverbs 9
10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Deut 32
39 'Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.

Isaiah 45
7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.'

But the irony is that this thread is rated 4 stars out of 5 (and I did not vote, nor know how to).

Isaiah 11

2 The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
3 His delight is in the fear of the Lord, And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;
4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, And decide with equity for the meek of the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked

It makes perfect sense to you because you added new elements in it, such as who God loves and doesn't love, and other such examples, that wasn't in what the original quote had.

Neal C.

This thread probably got 4 stars because our cyberspace friends enjoy a good debate/argument. Just human nature. We also sometimes have this fascination with the guy/gals on the other side of the issues. Even Christians can become curious with those folks who admit to having a strong disdain/dislike for Christians. Sometimes when Christians play with fire we might get burned. I know that I have gotten burned one time too many but still the curiousity lingers.

Gods Blessings,

Al

It had five stars but I turned it down in my elective...I gave it a 1 and the result is a four...

Now it is 3. I gave it -1

There are no new elements added Neal. I understand it. Charlie did not say that God doesn't love everyone.

But It is for sure that God only has mercy on who He choses.
The rest go into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his messengers, who made themselves the enemy of God.

21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."


4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

This is Justice's original quote.

"I have no reason to fear God, but those who do not fear Him, have a huge reason to fear."

It didn't say a thing about God's love or who God's love. It does not say a thing about wisdom.

This is Charlie's original quote.

"It makes perfect sense Neal. It is called true humility.
Those who fear God, God will love them because they have understood the beginning of wisdom.
One of the Seven Spirits of God is "The fear of the Lord".
Those who God loves have no reason to fear Him.

Those who do not fear the Lord and do not understand the beginning of wisdom, God will show them why they should.
If the marksman’s bullet finds your head, guess who did it?

God put that one there to do what he did and serve the purpose that he served."

There, he added elements of God's love and those who God loves, wisdom, etc.



Neal C.

It's been a few days now, and I'm not sure as to what else to complain about. I think I have covered most of the main things that ticks me off about Christianity, but there are so many I'm not sure were to start.
Oh, I just realized that your god still hasn't shown himself to me yet. I actually forgot about him for a few days. I must say that I didn't expect him to be so late for our "meeting". Does your god prefer to be this fashionably late?

Next!

[quote name='Pastafarian' date='Jun 19 2008, 11:45 PM' post='199806']
It's been a few days now, and I'm not sure as to what else to complain about. I think I have covered most of the main things that ticks me off about Christianity, but there are so many I'm not sure were to start.
Oh, I just realized that your god still hasn't shown himself to me yet. I actually forgot about him for a few days. I must say that I didn't expect him to be so late for our "meeting". Does your god prefer to be this fashionably late?
[/quote

Our God gives a choice to people on whether to belive or not in Him....I really pray that you change your tune and decide not to be fashionably late with your decision for Christ. Eternity is forever and someday I would like to meet you.

Shalom,

Al

Well, even the best mental expert in atheism, knows about Graham's work:

Ya' see . . . my Pastafarian . . . you are correct. The oral traditions, the childhood nursery
stories, universal pictorial cave drawings, . . . orthodox and non-orthodox cultures
present the pattern unity of parallel messages.

Yes, every civilization is repeating symbol images, icons, artistic renderings . . . aimed
at proving the world connection to a Creator.

Check out this Graham book.

When you delve into these pages, you will understand that the world has never not believed
in a Creator.

All cultures, have a historical rabbit trail to the same set of principles.

And that would include your rejection of the Biblical IHVH.

However, when you read the following book, you have no where to go except to
admit, that a Creator has existed in the hearts and minds, since eternity began the
world clock ticking . . .




http://www.amazon.com/Fingerprints-Gods-Gr...k/dp/0517887290
Fingerprints of the Gods (Paperback)

by Graham Hancock (Author) "I'm in southern Peru, flying over the Nazca lines..." (more)
Key Phrases: equinoctial marker, precessional numbers, ascending corridor, Central America, Pyramid Texts, Valley Temple (more...)


Product Description

The bestselling author of The Sign and the Seal reveals the true origins of civilization. Connecting puzzling clues scattered throughout the world, Hancock discovers compelling evidence of a technologically and culturally advanced civilization that was destroyed and obliterated from human memory. Four 8-page photo inserts.



http://www.grahamhancock.com/library/fotg/default.htm

On 6th July 1960 Lt Colonel Harold Ohlmeyer, a United States Airforce Commander, sent a reply to a letter from one Professor Charles Hapgood who had requested his opinion on a feature found on a map of 1513 AD called the Piri Reis Map. Lt Colonel Ohlmeyer's reply was a bombshell. The map, showing the coastline of the east coast of the Americas and the west coast of Africa, the Colonel remarked, also seemed to show the coastline of Queen Maud Land in Antarctica free of ice - a condition it had not been in for some 9000 years!
In fact, it is only in recent times that modern man has been able to map this coastline using sub-surface surveying techniques that can penetrate the ice sheet that lies on top of it.

Ohlmeyer had no idea how a map existing in the 16th century could have got hold of such knowledge.

This was one of the many mysteries that lead Graham to begin his epic journey into man's past that is Fingerprints of the Gods - and it is a mystery whose solution is mind blowing.

Traveling first to South and Meso-America, Graham finds evidence of myths of a white-skinned 'god' named Quetzalcoatl or 'Viracocha' who came from a drowned land bringing knowledge of farming and culture after a great flood. Tied in with these myths Graham begins to crack an ancient code imprinted in these ancient tales that refer to the 'great mill' of the heavens.

It is an astronomical code that deals with the position of the stars over vast periods of time - a code that reveals the ancients knew far, far more than they are generally credited with. Traces of the same code appear in Egyptian myth, and it is to this desert land that Graham and Santha travel, finding there haunting parallels in architecture and ritual to the New World sites they have just left behind.

Moreover, the whole layout of the Giza plateau seems to point to a date many thousands of years earlier than the date of its supposed construction - a date revealed in the astronomical alignments of the Pyramids, the 'mansions of a million years', home of the god Osiris, the bringer of agriculture to the Egyptians, like Quetzalcoatl, after a flood.

Could the Piri Reis maps be evidence for a previously unknown complex maritime civilization, capable of mapping the globe? A global culture, cataclysmically destroyed at the end of the ice age, remnants of which survived the devastation to pass on their knowledge to the shaken world?

Were the figures of Osiris and Quetzalcoatl survivors of this lost race - passing down not only advanced geographical knowledge, but a secret astronomical code veiled in myth that pointed to the devastation in the past, and warned of that which is to come?

From the mysterious sites of Tiahuanaco and Teotihuacan, to the enduring enigmatic Sphinx and pyramids of Egypt, the grandiose Nazca lines of Peru to the stark primal beauty of the Osireion at Abydos, this is a journey both around the globe and into the heart of the true prehistoric origins of man. Part adventure, part detective story, this book will force you to revaluate your beliefs of the past.

I see you are reviewing my post on the Graham, deal . . .


Good . . . let me know, Neal . . . if you liked it.

GREAT READ !