There Will Be No Rapture!

Many people have been lead to believe that an event called the Rapture will take place. Ministers have taught that in order to spare his saints from the great tribulation Jesus will return and take His church off into heaven. They use a number of scriptures to support their Rapture theory. First of all the word Rapture does not appear in the bible. The word Rapture is defined in the Webster Dictionary as meaning ecstasy-intense spiritual or emotional ecstasy. How does one make a connection with this and going off to heaven? There is none. We will examine the verses, the ministers use to support their rapture theory. And see what the scriptures are actually talking about when they tell of Jesus returning and His saints meeting Him in the air.

WHEN SAINTS ARE TAKEN

SAINTS THAT ARE LIVING

Matthew (24:40) Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

(41) Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

(42) Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

This is one set of scriptures ministers quote as indicating the Rapture. The scriptures do suggest people being taken. However, the question one should ask is when this event will occur and where will they be taken? It does not say anyone is being taken to heaven. The following scriptures will answer the 1st part of the question as to when this event will occur.

Matthew (24:29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The above verses clearly state that Jesus will return and send His angels to gather His elect immediately following the tribulation. Ministers who teach that Jesus will Rapture the church off to heaven to spare them from the tribulation are teaching contrary to God=s words. The scriptures say the return of Jesus and the gathering of His elect will be immediately after the tribulation. According to scripture these events can not take place before or during the tribulation only after.

SAINTS THAT ARE DEAD

The above scriptures dealt with the saints, which are living. The following scriptures will deal with the saints, which are already dead and are to be gathered unto Jesus at his return. Ministers who teach the concept of a Rapture, also quote these verses in support of their theory.

I Thessalonians (4:13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

(14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

(15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The above scriptures state that the dead in Christ along with those that are alive shall after the Lord=s return meet Him in the air and shall ever remain with Him. One should note that they also state that Jesus is descending from heaven. Clearly, He is leaving heaven and is on His way somewhere. It does not say He is coming from heaven to meet us to take us back to heaven. Rapture theorists claim that these scriptures show that we will meet the Lord in the air and he will take us off to heaven to forever be with Him. Now we know that this event is the same event spoken of in the above scriptures Matthew (24:29-31). This is the return of Jesus and the gathering of his elect by his angels. So we know this is taking place immediately after the tribulation. Again, there is no mention of anyone being taken to heaven. We know when Jesus will return and gather His elect. We still need to see what the scriptures say about where Jesus will take His elect once He has gathered them.

WHERE THE SAINTS ARE TAKEN

The following scriptures will clarify where Jesus will be taking His saints upon His return.

Zechariah (14:1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

(2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

(3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

(4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

(5) And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The above scriptures show that Jesus is coming to earth and His saints are coming with Him. Remember

I Thessalonians (4:17) stated that the saints would meet Him in the air. They had to meet Him in the air in order to be coming with Him. Remember Jesus was coming from heaven. The saints are to simply meet Jesus in the air and return right back to earth.

WHY EARTH?

Ministers have always preached about going to heaven. It may seem strange to find that going to heaven is actually contrary to the scriptures. In Revelation (21:1-2) we see that New Jerusalem the new city is coming down to earth. Like wise the above scriptures state that Jesus is returning to earth and the following shows this is where He will remain.



Psalms (132:13) For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

(14) This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

I wonder how many people truly understand the significance of the beginning of the Lord=s prayer? Jesus told us to pray this because this is His desire.

Matthew (6:9) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

(10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven

STILL NO RAPTURE

Ministers quote scriptures from all over the bible which are supposed to signify the Rapture. Following is still another example. But in them you will find, that Paul is simply saying those saints that are alive, along with the dead will be changed into spiritual beings at the last trump. They will meet the Lord in the air. This is the same event spoken of before. It is when Jesus returns and has His angels gather His elect, again this occurs after the tribulation.

I Corinthians (15:50) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

(55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The above scriptures are used by ministers all the time at funerals. One has to wonder if they realize that this is referring to the 1st resurrection upon Jesus return and not about someone dying and going to heaven.

Peace to all who seek understanding in Jesus' name.

What you said is actually coming out of the Bible! Good job. It is not easy to teach what the Bible says as opposed to what many modern day Western Christian teachings say. There is a price to pay and you pay it at the hands of our beloved family in Messiah. I want to encourage you to not be discouraged and also be wary of pride. Have faith and be humble and God will be with you. Always recieve others the way the Messiah received you. God bless you.

Hey, in my thread "The rapture arising from the scriptures" you dropped an encouraging comment for me. You also said that the rapture theory (I presume you just mean pre-trib) was "from satan." I am not disagreeing with you at all but why do you say that other than that it is false? Why all the effort from the enemy to convince people of the rapture and energize the church with anticipation for it?

Greetings Brother in the His holy Name,
To the above question, could it be that the same groups teaching the "I'll fly away" are also convinced of the "once saved always saved" doctrine? These diminish the fear of the Lord and striving to bear the fruit of a crucified life.
blessings to you and yours and all who will be
your servant george

Matthew (24:40) Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

(41) Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left

What do you do in the field??? You work

What do you do at the mill??? You work

you guys better make sure when the boss gets back he finds you working and not screwing off....mmmmm lets reword that shall we???

When the husband gets home he better not find his wife being a whore with another mans child in her womb...(giving sup)

make sure not the the one taken ---- the one taken was taken by the antichrist...

sounds like the first resurrection

, understanding first that the Lord cannot come until after the great tribulation.

I agree, no rapture!!

The Rapture theology was invented by the Jesuit order in 1590 by a Spanish Jesuit named Ribera. The idea was to shift the focus away from the Vatican as a counter-reformation.

In simple words, the rapture theory never existed until it was popularized by Jesuits under the names of Reformed writers. This is "new gospels" dished up for us Christians and must be disgarded as such.

One second coming, not two. This also means that the 7 year trib theory is false. It also means the Anti-Christ is already here and is none other than the papal rule.

Posttribulationism Does Not Adequately Provide an Explanation

for the Population of the Millennium


Posttribulationists of a premillennial variety are confronted with a number of problems in connection with the population of the millennial kingdom. From a logical and logistical standpoint the population of the millennium is perhaps posttribulationism's biggest problem.


Most posttribs ignore this issue. To his credit, Gundry sees the need to have both Jews and Gentiles who survive the tribulation and who are not raptured at its end, but who enter the millennium in unresurrected bodies to become the progenitors of the kingdom population.


Pretribs have pointed out that if the rapture were to take place after the tribulation, all believers would be caught up and glorified, with the result that no "sheep" would remain to be present at the judgment of the nations or to populate the millennial earth.


Gundry answers that (1) the 144,000 which comprise the remnant of national Israel will not be saved until after the tribulation but before the second advent (or at the second advent) and will thus constitute the Jewish progenitors of the millennial earth, (2) the Gentile progenitors will consist of unbelievers who are those of Matthew 24:40, 41 (cf. Lk. 17:34, 35) that are "left" and probably only part of these, and (3) the judgment of the sheep and goats (Matt. 25:31-46) does not take place until after the millennial kingdom and is to be identified with the great white throne. Gundry rejects the idea of separate judgments and holds that there will be one general judgment at the end of the millennium at which both believers and unbelievers will be judged.[29]


Gundry later changed his position on the 144,000 and proposed that they "represent the Jewish Palestinian segment of the church on earth during the tribulation, just as the innumerable multitude mentioned right after them in Revelation 7 come from the rest of the church, predominantly Gentile, during the tribulation."[30]


This view is an improvement in that it recognizes the regenerate state of the 144,000 throughout the tribulation. But it still leaves Gundry with the problem of populating the millennial kingdom. What's more, it assumes what Gundry is trying to prove, namely, that the church goes through the tribulation.


Gundry also jettisons his dispensationalism here in failing to distinguish between Israel and the church and God's purposes for each. If the 144,000 represent the "Jewish segment of the church," (Palestinian segment at that!) who then, represents the nation Israel in the tribulation? And who, then, enters the millennial kingdom as saved Israel? Gundry is still left without a suitable explanation for saved Israel entering the millennium.


Gundry's suggestion that the Gentile progenitors of the kingdom will consist of "some of the wicked" who survive the tribulation and second coming of Christ is without appeal.[31]


His placement of the judgment of the nations after the millennium raises a number of problems. First, he is forced to interpret "nations" (Matt. 25:32) as men of all ages, both living and dead, both Jew and Gentile; "kingdom" (Matt. 25:34) as referring to eternity; and "brothers of Mine" (Matt. 25:40) not as Israelites but as believers in general. Second, he has unsaved people entering the millennium, a concept nowhere supported in Scripture. Third, the "brothers" must be seen as persecuted, hungry, thirsty, naked, sick, and imprisoned in the millennium! Fourth, contrary to the plain meaning of Matthew 25:31-46, which indicate the judgment of the nations (sheep and goats) takes place when the Son of Man comes, Gundry inserts a gap in Matthew 25:31 or between verses 31 and 32 (he's not sure which), of a thousand years between Christ's coming and the judgment of the nations.[32]


Gundry's parade of unlikely explanations is forced and unconvincing. I have responded to Gundry's arguments elsewhere.[33] Suffice it here to say that (1) Gundry's awkward attempt to get saved Israel into the millennium, (2) the suggestion that some of "the wicked" Gentiles enter the kingdom, and (3) his placement of the judgment of the nations after the millennium, are an insufficient explanation of the population of the millennial kingdom.[34]


Two other factors which militate against Gundry' s view are (1) Matthew 13:42-43 which indicate that none will be left after Christ's coming and judgment of the nations except the saints, and (2) Revelation 19:9. Here the bride (the church) is distinguished from other believers who apparently do not belong to the church and who are invited to the wedding supper. Who are these people and where do they come from? However we answer the question, it will hardly do to say that these are "some of the wicked" as Gundry would have us believe[35] Whoever they are, they are not the church. They are a separate body of saints distinguished here from the bride. Certainly the bride is not invited as a guest to her own wedding supper!


Here, then, we have two distinct peoples of God. One, the bride, is bedecked in fine linen which "is the righteous acts of the saints" (Rev. 19:8). Surely this indicates the church has already been before the Bema seat and rewarded. This is incompatible with a posttrib rapture. The existence of a saved people (Rev. 19:9) other than the church, which can only be tribulational saints (and probably OT saints, cf. Dan. 12:1-2) is also incompatible with a posttrib rapture. Posttribulationism must provide a reasonable solution to this problem.

......................................................benny

I always thought of the "rapture" as a spiritual concept. One is raptured away as they learn to walk with the Lord, ie.... they are in complete joy in the Lord (heaven) when they are dead to self - they no longer exist (like Enoch in Genesis). But I had a dream a while back that made me think differently (see dreams and vision - not interprated). I don't believe in pre trib rapture, maybe post or mid, but the dream convinced me that my spiritual view was not complete.

yes!!!

actually what it trully is

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


the Jesus of the bible teaches resurrection

the other Jesus teaches rapture

Sorry, had to get a last one in here too... no rapture for sure!

If we are raptured, how will the Christians lead and guide the remaining ones to the arms of our Lord?

I never believed in the Pie in the Sky stuff anyway. Fluffy clouds and angels riding on them, with the

sound of harps are for Sunday School. Or Catholic School, anyway (no offense to Catholics.. I was

one at an early time in my life too!)...

Thanks for the topic, what a way to go out... prepare and be safe... hard times are a comin!

believe in what is written

Jn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

when do Jesus the resurrection come?

Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

or at the last day.

Jn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

what is it called when he raises the dead?

Rv 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


more proof from a follower of Jesus

Jn 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Amen Ozell