Here is a Lesson from the bible class I attend, Give me you input.

thanks

ozell


It’s a sad fact of life that it is constantly necessary to affirm what the Almighty God has said with his own mouth. For all that God has said and done is good, but many have thought to overturn the words and works of the creator. Though God had it written plainly in black and white, many attempt to do away with God’s dietary law, but God does not change (Malachi 3:6).

THE WORD OF GOD

“And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, speak unto the children of Israel, saying, these are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth” (Leviticus 11:1,2). I ask you, why would the Lord tell his servants to only eat certain animals and later change it, as many contend? Yet, there are no scriptures in the New Testament reversing what God said in the Old Testament. People simply read their own beliefs into certain verses, which is a great sin for God has warned us about adding to and taking away from His Word (Deuteronomy 4:1,2 & Revelation 22:18,19).

Many have taught that certain Old Testament laws (including God’s Dietary Laws) were done away with when Jesus came and died. Let’s see what Jesus said, “…Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven…” (Matthew 5:18,19). I find that many simply do not believe Jesus, for how else can they continue to transgress his laws (sin) and think it’s ok. There will be punishment for those who break the least of Gods Commandments, let alone the greatest.



CLEAN AND UNCLEAN ANIMALS



Why did God deem certain animals unclean and therefore un-edible? Being the creator, God knows what each creature’s purpose is and though all creatures are good all are not good to eat. For instance, when one of our loved ones die we don’t just make them our next meal, though they are creatures of God. This rules out twisting I Timothy 4:4 to mean we can eat every creature period, because it’s understood which ones are for eating

purposes. Pigs, Mice, Dogs, Catfish, Shrimp and Lobster are all un-edible.

“And the swine (pig), though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat… And all that have not fins and scales in the seas… They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh…” (Leviticus 11:7,8,10,11). By contrast, Cows and chickens are clean and therefore ok to eat. Remember, God knows best!



NOAH HAD THE DIETARY LAW



Some try to belittle the Old Testament Law, calling it the Mosaic Law, however Moses talked to God face to face and Jesus warned us about breaking the least of his commandments. Man has known God’s laws since the beginning. Many fail to realize that when God flooded the earth for man’s disobedience the dietary law was intact. God told Noah, “Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two...” (Genesis 7:2). We have heard that the animals went on the ark two by two, but the truth is that the clean animals went on seven by seven. Moses was not even born at this time.



SOME NEW TESTAMENT INNUENDOS



With all that is written about the Lord’s Dietary Law, some still erroneously twist a few New Testament verses to make believe they can eat anything. When approached about eating with unwashed hands (A great religious tradition) Jesus replied, “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man” (Matthew 15:11). Jesus would never speak against God’s law but he was addressing their tradition of not eating with unwashed hands. He went further to explain that breaking God’s law (including blasphemy) comes from the heart and defiles us, but eating with unwashed hands doesn’t defile us (Matthew 15:18-20). It is blasphemy to change God’s Dietary Law.



When Peter questioned Jesus about his statement in the above verses, Jesus never said one time we can eat anything. He never did away with God’s rules for clean and unclean animals, yet this is read into those verses. Nevertheless Peter, who was right their, didn’t believe Jesus was doing away with the dietary law, for years later he still observed it. “But Peter said, “Not so, Lord, for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean” (Acts 10:14). See, Peter was still following God’s dietary law, long after the eating with unwashed hands incident. Some will say that God was telling Peter he could eat anything in Acts the tenth chapter.



This is another futile attempt to change God’s Word. Since Matthew 15 didn’t work they try to twist Acts 10. Well, this scripture does not work either. Peter did see a vision of all kinds of animals and heard a voice saying rise and eat, but it had absolutely nothing to do with changing God’s dietary law. Notice Peter never ate anything unclean, but the vision ended with him doubting what it meant (Acts 10:17). While Peter was wondering on the vision an angel told him that Gentiles were looking for him (Verses 19,20). Peter was told to stop wondering and go with them. He obeyed and realized that the vision was leading him to preach to the Gentiles (unclean to Jews). Peter never thought that he could eat unclean animals, “God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean” (Acts 10:28).



Lastly, I cannot fail to mention how Paul’s words to Timothy are misused.

Many falsely believe that all we have to do is pray over unclean meat and it is then ok to eat. Nevertheless in I Timothy 4:1-5, Paul is not saying we can eat unclean animals if we pray over it, but he is addressing some latter day man made traditions (the dietary was given by God not man). Paul tells us that some would follow “doctrines of devils” (verse 1). First let me say it is utter blasphemy to refer to God’s Dietary Law as a devil’s doctrine.



However, Paul informs us what these “doctrines of devils” are (notice it’s more than one), “Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received…”(Verse 3). Wait a minute, people are too busy trying to make their “eat anything” doctrine fit, that they miss the real message Paul is giving us. This warning is about people lying, saying marriage and eating meat (period) is forbidden.



To this day we still have this false teaching. Certain men and women are told, that God commands them to be celibate and also they cannot eat any meat on Fridays (only fish). God never commanded such things and these “doctrines of devils” are against nature itself (creating pedophiles), being contrary to God’s Holy Law. Yet, we that know the truth can marry and eat meat (on Fridays) that God has sanctified (set aside) as clean in His Word. “For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer” (verse 5).



HOLY AND SANCTIFIED



Following God’s laws (including his dietary law) is what sanctifies and makes us holy (not being defiled). “For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth…This is the law…To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten” (Leviticus 11:44,46,47). Paul told us that the law is holy, just and good (Romans 7:12) and Jesus said the Truth of God’s Word is what sanctifies us (John 17:17).



SANCTIFY THEMSELVES



It’s sad that many people think that they can be holy and sanctified without following God’s law. What a rude awakening they are in for, “They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord” (Isaiah 66:17). If you refuse to obey the simple dietary commandments, it is likely you will refuse to obey God’s law period. Obedience is the key!



JESUS IN FLAMING FIRE



Earlier we saw that Jesus warned us against breaking the least of God’s commandments (Matthew 5:18,19). That was not an idle threat, for at his second coming he will punish all disobedience to his Word. Above we saw that those eating swine’s flesh and other unclean beasts will be consumed. How? “For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many” (Isaiah 66:15,16).



If you don’t obey God, punishment awaits you. God’s Dietary is Still Good. Why else would Jesus chastise people with fire at his second coming for “eating swine’s flesh”? Paul echoed Isaiah, “…the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” (II Thessalonians 1:7,8). What a surprise to the breakers of God’s Dietary Law. He that hath ears to hear let him hear!

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

AFTER THE TRIB OR MILL REIGN:
GOD WILL CREATE A NEW UNIVERSE..........THE HEBREWS HAD NO WORD FOR UNIVERSE,,,,,,,,,SO IT SAYS "NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH"



Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.



THIS IS AFTER THE "GREAT TRIB",,,,,,,,OR AFTER THE MILLENNIAL REIGN..............

BUT THIS "the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed"...........THESE ARE NOT RESURRECTED CHRISTIANS,,,,,,,,,,,,THESE ARE GENERATIONS OF MORTALS ,,,,,,,,,AND THE MORTAL JEWS WILL BE REQUIRED TO LIVE BY THE MOSAIC LAW..........

.........INCLUDING THE DIETARY LAWS




Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.


Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


AFTER THE GREAT TRIB,,,,,,,,,THE MORTAL JEWS ARE REQUIRED TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES, INCLUDING THE DIETARY LAWS..........

BUT ..........TODAY, AND FOREVER,,,,,,,,,NT CHRISTIANS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO KEEP THE MOSAIC LAW

TODAY'S CHRISTIANS DON'T OBEY THE DIETARY RESTRICTIONS OF THE MOSAIC LAW...........THE NT IS BETTER!

THANK GOD!




Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


GOD'S GOVT WILL INCREASE FOREVER............THE POPULATION WILL INCREASE FOREVER...............SOMEBODY (MORTALS) WILL BE HAVING GENERATIONS OF NEW BABIES FOREVER

TODAY'S CHRISTIANS WILL BE IMMORTAL IN THE "NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH"...........THESE IMMORTALS WILL *******NOT********BE HAVING BABIES.............THEY WILL BE NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE,,,,,,,,SIMILAR TO ANGELS NOW










Act 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
Act 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
Act 10:18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
Act 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
Act 10:20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
Act 10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
Act 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
Act 10:23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.

Does God state plainly in black or white that the laws of unclean animals are dietary laws? NO he does not.



Not true. Paul was shown that God had made all of the unclean creatures clean when he gave him the vision of a sheet coming down from heaven. He even instructed Paul to eat the creatures. Would God command Paul to do something which was harmful to him. Sadly though people read their own beliefs into this account and ignore it.


Christians keep the laws of clean and unclean things today not by the letter but by the spirit. Without the Holy Spirit to tell us what is unclean we would have to fill a thousand law books with statutes and limitations. Therefore if we keep the fulfillment of the law, which is by the spirit abstaining from all unclean things then our righteousness has exceeded the righteousness of the pharisees. If you believe that legalistic observance of the letter of the Mosaic law is required by God then you are beholden to keep every little law contained therein by the letter. This Bible study you are reading picks and chooses for itself which laws are to be obeyed and which are to be ignored.


Yes of course God knows best. He even explained the reason why certain meats were to be abstained from. The reason was so that Israel would be seperated from among the nations. There is nothing in the text to suggest that the reason was dietary considerations.


Again nothing indicates that the reason why there were seven pairs of unclean animals was for dietary reasons. However it does show that Noah sacrificed some of the clean animals so it may be that there were seven pairs for sacrificial reasons. Even if it is true that the laws of unclean meats were in force prior to the flood we can be sure that such laws did not exist AFTER the flood because God gives specific permission to Noah that ALL creatures which creep upon the earth were available to Noah as food just as ALL plants were available for food. Now some plants are poisonous and yet God leaves it to man's discretion and intelligence to determine which plants are suitable for food. Some plants are safe to eat after cooking and preparation whereas they are dangerous raw. Others the roots can be eaten but not the leaves. In fact, it is far harder to determine which plant is unsafe to eat than it is to determine which animal is unsafe to eat. Why does your study not show God's very plain words to Noah after he came off the ark.

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Now why would he give an injunction to not eat the blood and forget to mention not to eat the unclean creature. God makes it clear that the only prohibition regarding the eating of meat is that we do not eat the blood.


It seems like this article is twisting the NT. The NT plainly states that ingesting food does not make us unclean, yet you ignore the scripture. Clearly the eating of unclean meat does not defile us unless knowing that it is unclean according to the law of God we are moved in lust against our conscience to eat it. In modern times we understand that by not washing our hands we can become sick by ingesting germs which are on our hands. If not washing our hands will not defile us then how much less will eating pork or bacon.

Christ was pointing out that it is not the food itself which makes us unclean but rather the evil thoughts and words of unrighteousness. Now to eat meat which we know is unclean out of disobedience is indeed rebellion and lust. However if we understand that the requirement to not eat unclean meat does not apply to believing Christians who live under the law of faith and not the law of works then we may eat with a pure heart and a clear conscience.


What Jesus said was that nothing we ate defiled us because we digested it and it went out the back passage. Sorry bud, but unclean meat goes out the back passage just like clean meat does.
Peter was following his own cultural sensitivities. God mercifully releaved him of his command because of this. What you fail to mention is that God specifically commanded Peter to kill and eat the unclean creatures. Would Peter have sinned if he had obeyed Gods command. Of course not. Was God commanding Peter to eat something harmful? Of course not. God then goes on to show that he was making Gentile men who had previously been unclean to be clean. What is a greater deed. To make an unclean man to be clean or to make an unclean meat to be clean?
By what principle can a gentile be made clean which does not also apply to the meat? Was God overthrowing the laws of Moses by proclaiming the gentile man unclean? By no means. He was fulfilling.

God was specifically proclaiming the previously unclean meat to be clean. "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common" . So here is a clear statement that the unclean meat has been cleansed and may therefore be eaten. Three times this was restated showing how important it was. It seems to me that the article is explaining away the very words of God spoken from heaven.



If the unclean meats were not cleansed as God stated then maybe the gentile men have not been cleansed either. God's presentation of the unclean beasts on the sheet was a graphic illustration about how the Jews would need to overcome their sense of abhorrence to accept gentiles into their fellowship.

Which meats would devils be commanding that Christians abstain from? Clean meats? Which great false religion do you think in the last days is going to rise up teaching vegetarianism? The article is in dreamland. In fact the only large scale and persistent heresy regarding abstinence of meats is this very same heresy which this article perpetuates. The wicked teaching that gentile christians born and raised on meats which God told Noah were suitable for them to eat must abstain from those meats.

The Levitical law was given to Israel only. It was never given to the gentiles. The gentiles are clearly without the law. Therefore if they are without the law then they are not bound by the law. This issue is similar to the debate on circumcision. The men of the circumcision sought illegally to bring the gentiles into the bondage of the levitical law. Paul and Peter corrected those men and the matter was decided at the Council of Jerusalem that the gentiles were not to be told to abstain from anything except the eating of blood.

Here is the passage.
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Well lookkee here. No mention WHATSOEVER of bringing the gentiles trouble by commanding them to abstain from their traditional unclean meats. NONE WHATSOEVER. And yet men such as the writer of this article continue to seek to trouble us with their commandments to this very day.

1 Timothy 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which GOD HATH CREATED TO BE RECEIVED with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

I believe the "To be Received" part of that scripture is key. Did God create swine, shellfish, etc to be received? Or, did He create them to cleanse the earth and ocean?

Just out of interest whirlwind did you read my posts?

In this scripture it make clear that he gave man EVERY creature that moves to be food if man so chooses.
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

He said to Noah, go forth and replenish the earth. The australian aborigine came all the way to this south land where there is not a single native clean creature for him to eat. He would have starved if he had followed the law of unclean animals. So did God intend for mankind to replenish all the earth except for Australia? If the matter of eating clean and unclean meat was so important to him, why didn't some of those seven pairs of clean animals make their way to Australia to feed the aborigine who eventually came to Australia?

The aborigine have historically eaten goannas, snakes, witchedy grubs, crocodile, emu, kangaroo. None of which are clean. Please show me which part of this Noahic covenant that they transgressed by doing so.

Anyway I'm not going to repeat all my points from the previous posts just to have them ignored again.

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.


this has nothing to do with the dietary laws.

It speaks of man.

Hello Excubitor. Yes, I did read your post . I don't see this as a "go to hell" issue at all but as more of a personal decision (I could be wrong though). He created the animals, crustaceans, etc. in question to be scavengers and that is the driving issue for me. If the animal takes in decay, filth, and disease, then should we eat it?


I live in the deep south and we love seafood and barbecue. I was raised with it but a year or so ago the desire to eat it just vanished. This is just a personal thing...my family still relishes it. To my mind, if God said they shouldn't be eaten way back in the Old Testament for the health of our bodies then they must still be on a "do not eat" list.





We can eat all those things....they are all edible and I certainly would if that was all there was but are they good for our bodies?





This is going farther into this then I intended but where you state....."The Levitical law was given to Israel only. It was never given to the gentiles" I would add: Many people that are considered "gentiles" are actually of the house of Israel - not Jews who are the house of Judah but Israelites nevertheless of ten of the twelve tribes.


We could well be part of that and consequently the Levitical law applies to us too. However, even if we are not it seems that it would be better for our health to abstain from what He told us is "unclean foods." Now, having said that....my mother is eighty-six years old and her father was ninety-nine when he died and both are/have led strong, healthy lives and they ate pork!

The Lord said this concerning being Holy
being holy also entails God's dietary laws

Lev11v
44: For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.45: For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

46: This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
47: To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Peter wrote
be holy in conversation and we read in the OT the Lord said be holy in what you eat as HE is

1Pt 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

1Pt 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

God commanded Peter to kill and eat the animals. Peter refused. Three times God commanded him and three times Peter refused. God deliberately stated that he had cleansed ALL of the creatures. Now why would God lie if indeed he has not cleansed any of the creatures at all. If he didnt intend ALL the creatures to be cleansed then why did he not just in the vision say directly to Peter the Gentiles only had been cleansed and not the unclean creatures. It doesnt make sense. You simply read it how you want to read it and ignore the direct words of God. Nor have you explained by what principle gentiles may be made cleansed which does not also cleanse unclean creatures.

You obviously have never kept chooks. They eat all manner of disgusting things like maggots. They love worms. Clean fish eat all the same foods that unclean fish do. Kangaroos eat the very same food as sheep. You have no leg to stand on with this argument. It is entirely fallacious.


He does not say that unclean meats should not be eaten for the health of our bodies. Nowhere does he say that.
I feel really sorry for you that you enjoyment of some aspect of your life has been robbed from you and has created a distance between you and your family. God designed these laws to seperate Israel from the nations around about. He did not design them to be a barrier between families or to rob us of our delight in his creation or to have us worried about what's in the pizza or the sausage. I followed the laws of clean and unclean meats and ate no unclean meat for 25 years. It was an absolute burden which I am delighted to be free of now that I have come to the knowledge of the truth. To this day I am astonished that I was able to read the scriptures and come to the conclusion that christians are required to follow Jewish works. ASTONISHED. This goes to prove the Sola Scriptura DOES NOT WORK. I truly believed from the scriptures that I should not eat the meat. And I did not according to my conscience. So I don't condemn you for your beliefs, but I grieve for you that you have come again under bondage to the works of the law.


Not good enough. Very vapid response. You have not addressed the point. If God required all of mankind to eat only clean food then why did he not provide all of mankind with clean food to eat.


Again you have ignored the point. The apostles did not say "Well we better make sure they only eat clean meat in case some of them are hidden sheep of Israel scattered amongst the gentiles" They said. "We will not burden the gentiles with anything except to abstain from blood". I did not give up 25 years of observances at a whim. I have done hundreds of hours of study on this subject becoming very familiar with the Old and the New Covenant and how they apply to Christians. I know what I am talking about. The thing is that I was just a babe when I came to Christ. I believed my teachers and trusted them. But they were deceived or lieing themselves. It just makes me realise how important it is that we all stick to the orthodox teachings of the church which have endured throughout all these hundreds of years and follow the sacred traditions of the church. Time and time again after hundreds of hours of research and bible study I have found that the old teachers and the sacred traditions of the church are spot on in line with the Bible. Time and again I have found this to be the case. God does not expect every new Christian to go round and round the mulberry bush for 20 years before coming to the truth. So I am happy to say that not only do my beliefs and teachings here on this forum line up with the plain words of scripture, they also line up with the traditions and practices of the church going back through the vast ages to the very earliest times of the church. I hope that you will take heed and fasttrack yourself so that you don't wallow in the Jewish law for 20 years like I did.

And by the way, this teaching on unclean meat invariably ties in with British-Israelism which is another doctrine which is next to useless for anything except for giving Americans and Brits an air of superiority (as if they need it). The fact is as far as the Jewish law goes, if you weren't circumcised then you were cut off from Israel and no longer a citizen. This is really basic stuff and I shouldn't need to tell you this except for the fact that I have no doubt that your teachers have failed to mention it. This is because they only tell you the things that support their case and forget to mention those things which don't.


So you are admitting from your only families example that your notions that unclean food is bad for you is a load of old cobblers. There is no scientific evidence for it. There is not even any biblical evidence for it. There is not one single reference in the scripture to indicate that unclean meat is unhealthy and that the dietary laws were given for health reasons. NONE.

No that is the invention of false teachers who seek to entice away gullible or extremely naive and simple people (such as I once was) into their fellowships so that they can build up their following and extract as many tithes as they can. Modern man's preoccupation with health and hygiene all ties in very nicely with that and is a very convenient hook to hang a doctrine on. Oh yes. Let me remind you that they will have you tithing on your gross and tithing your tithes. Funny isnt it how they pick the OT laws which suit them and reject a whole host of others which have every bit as much OT authority as unclean meats and tithing do. Circumcision for example. Do you require your 8 day olds to be circumcised. Do you require your women to be unclean during their periods.

Hypocrisy. Picking and choosing to suit yourself. The NT even warns of this saying that if you enforce the OT law on a single point then you are beholden to enforce it on every point. Believe me if you did that you would be unable to function in any society, not even the modern Jewish society.

I don't know what a "chook" is. I probably do have a fallacious argument but as I said....it is a personal decision....actually, not even a decision so much as I just don't want them anymore. The same thing happened with colas. I just drink water or an occasional glass of iced tea....I don't know why I just do.





Excubitor...there is no distance in my family because of this...most don't even know. I simply don't eat those foods and there is no announcement made. Thank you for not condemning me for that and as you have said that then you realize that I don't condemn others for eating those foods. Again, it is just a personal event in my life.





I didn't realize Australia didn't have any "clean" animals to eat. I don't have an answer for that Excubitor except that the restriction seems to be placed on the Adamic people. All of us, whether Adamic or not, can benefit from it but not all must follow it. Other than that....I don't know.





No, that isn't what I am saying. In my family there seems to be longevity but who knows what causes arthritis and other ailments in elderly people....perhaps it was unclean food. I did read before (sorry, I can't provide the link) that a study was done and the most healthy folks were of a Jewish sect that kept the dietary laws. What I am saying here is....eat it if you wish or don't if you don't wish . (that sounds like a song the two Siamese cats sang in Lady and The Tramp)





Yes, there is a lot of hypocrisy in the world today. Belief in Him should set us free not "bind and burden men." I wish now that I had not even brought this up. It isn't something I wish to debate as I don't have strong feelings about it....I just know how I personally feel.

You are not addressing the issues I raised so I cant see any point in continuing. Anyone who would state that the Australian aborigines are not descendants of Adam is either a racist, mad or both and is certainly not worthy of maintaining dialogue with. There are some seriously twisted people out there with an astonishing array of bizarre beliefs out there. Even if there were any errors in the RCC they were incredibly minor compared to the damaging heresies the daughters of the reformation have managed to produce.

Look if you want to have personal decisions based on fallacious arguments then go ahead. Just don't waste our time with them as if to imagine that the Bible has anything to do with your personal decision.

Got some of that southern sweet tea! mmmmmmm!

I addressed the issues as well as I was able. As I said, I don't see it as a great sin it is just that I don't wish to partake of the foods in question. The bible did have something to do with this. When our diaglog began I stated that my reason was found in [1 Timothy 4:3].


All the races did not come from Adam. Mankind (races) were on the earth before his formation. That is not racist statement unless you consider God, the creator of the races, as a racist.

church folks and the pastors of today love to misuse this scripture in trying to do away with God's dietary law

let's look at it again



1tim4v1: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Paul is talking about the last days people will give heed to doctrines of devils and seducing spirits.

when God gives a command it is law. when a person says contrary to God law that person is seduced by a evil spirit.

Jesus said
Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

2: Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

they are hypocrite
s.
Prov 11:9 An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered.

Isa 9:17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

3: Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

first you must believe and know the truth.

Jesus said

God's word is truth

Jn 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

4: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


Jesus said that it is sanctified by the word of God

let's look at the sanctification(set-apart)

Lev11v1: And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,
2: Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth
43: Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.
44: For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
45: For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
46: This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
47: To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

this is where the Lord sanctified what can be eaten and what cannot be eaten.

he called it abominable

1 Corinthians 8:8
But food will not commend us to God: neither, if we eat not, are we the worse; nor, if we eat, are we the better.

Ozell stated the account in Acts very accurately.
It was talking of man namely the house of Cornealuis.
They didn't have a pig roast when Peter Got there!

The instructions in the Law say that "ye shall have their carcasses in abomination" This is proof that the issue is dietary. For a carcass is for eating purposes. Every creature is good when it is alive, there is nothing abominable about a living pig. He was made for a reason.
Nothing is to be refused if it be recieved with thanksgiving...
You cannot recieve something with thanksgiving toward Yah if Yah has already forbidden it to be recieved in such a manner. God changes not and will not alter anything that has proceeded from his mouth.

Eat your piggy if you want but dont solicit God for permission.
The laws of clean and unclean antedate the Writing of Moses and only apply to Yah's people.
as for everybody else...You can have all the parasites you want!

I wonder why nobody defends the consumption of the wood chuck or rat?
They always want to justify the pig.

1Cor8v1: Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
2: And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
3: But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
4: As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5: For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6: But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7: Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8: But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9: But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
10: For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11: And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12: But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13: Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.


Paul is talking about Idols.

not the dietary laws.

This scripture particularly states that one of the demonic doctrines is the command to abstain from meats which God gave to mankind to eat. So under your scenario one of the latter day heresies is that So you say that in the last days many will forsake the eating of clean meats and become vegetarians. Good one. Don't think so.

Besides you are ignoring the scripture entirely and reading right over it. It says.


1 Timothy 4:4: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Sorry but "every creature" means EVERY CREATURE. It does not mean some of the creatures.
Now if what you are driving at is correct the scripture would say either.
Some of the creatures of God are good because they are sanctified by the word of God and prayer. Listen here buddy. Take a good hard look at yourself and the way you are ignoring and reading over the scripture. It says EVERY CREATURE IS good for food AND SHOULD NOT BE REFUSED. So what are you doing? The very thing you are told not to and that is REFUSING all the foods which you believe are NOT GOOD.

So which word of God sanctifies ALL THE CREATURES as being good for food?

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. Notice that pesky little word EVERY. Where does this say. Some of the moving things that live shall be food for you?

Here is another place
Acts 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.


So here we have clear evidence that ALL MANNER of creatures of the earth where cleansed by God for killing and eating. Showing that even the believing Jews were no longer bound to abstain from unclean meats. The rules of clean and unclean meats had their purpose for a season to seperate the Jew from the Gentile, but with the coming of the New Covenant there is no more Jew or Gentile, no reason to seperate Jew from Gentile because now we are not seperated by the observance of the written law, but by the obedience of faith written in each of our hearts by the Holy Spirit.
So why then would we observe the written law of the Jews? This is the very question asked by Paul himself in Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
So here it clearly states the duration and period in which the written Jewish law applied. It was applied from when Israel transgressed in the wilderness until the time when the seed of the promise should come. The seed of the promise is of course Jesus Christ.

So what was the purpose of the written Jewish law? It was provided to prepare his people for the coming of Jesus Christ Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
So now that Christ has come why then do we need the schoolmaster? Now we have faith and belief in him to bring us in as his people. We are no longer children of the Old Covenant law. We are children of the New Covenant of faith.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Here is an analogy I often use to explain this concept of the schoolmaster bringing us to Christ. A father has a 15 year old son who is going out for the night and his father commands him. Be home by 11:00 PM. The son dutifully obeys then he left home. Is he still bound to be home by 11:00. No of course not because the injunction to be home by 11:00 was actually teaching him a greater principle, to show concern for his worrying mother, to be responsible and stay out of foolish and dangerous situations. So when the young son matures the greater principle is eternally binding. To honour your mother, be wise and temperate is an eternal law which was for a time expressed in a temporal law to be home by 11:00.

In the same way the law of clean and unclean meats was a temporary law to make a difference between Jew and Gentile, clean and unclean. But it teaches a greater eternal principle which is that we by the Holy Spirit judge what is clean and unclean, pure or defiled so that we may out of obedience of faith choose good and pure things and reject vile things. By which law of the Old Covenant is marijuana forbidden. What about gluttony, or junk food, what about smoking, drugs. What about risque movies. What about racy books. If we by the spirit fulfill the very nature of the law by our obedience then we have fulfilled the very purpose of the law. Which is why Jesus said. Think not I came to destroy the law, but to fulfill.

There were a whole long list of clean and unclean things in the OT. Yet the heretics pick out the clean and unclean meats and hold to that but ignore all of the others. So lets deal with the entirety of clean and unclean things. Have the laws of clean and unclean things been done away? By no means, else everything would be either clean or else everything would be unclean. And has the command for God's people to seperate themselves from the people of the world changed. Absolutely not.

These commands still remain. Here it is.
2 Corinthians 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you,

But the new Covenant has given us a greater facility and freedom to judge which is clean and unclean. We decide these things now by the obedience of the faith, conviction of the Holy Spirit, teachings of the church and the actions of the conscience. Choosing whether something is clean or unclean is enormously complex.

For example the eating of meat sacrificed to idols. Paul says its OK to eat this meat if you just by it at the market and just dont bother to look into where it came from, or you might eat it if your host served it up for you. In this case the meat is clean. But if you perceive that your host is testing you and will judge you to be a sinner if you eat, or if you will offend your brother by eating, or if you will offend your own conscience by eating then the food becomes unclean. So we see how the New Covenant frees us to eat something which was formerly uncllean and yet it also imposes upon us greater responsibilites to judge the circumstances of the things we do. Now the whole point of the New Covenant is that all of these laws are written in our hearts and taught us and deciphered for us by the Holy Spirit. If we had to write down the intricacies of these matters regarding every object and situation in the entirety of our human lives and experience it would fill a million books. Much like our legal system today. So the Holy Spirit is like a giant supercomputer who can trawl through the database of a million books and provide to us by the action of our conscience and of love toward our fellow man to determine the good, clean and pure thing and to reject the unclean, defiled and evil thing.

If through the Holy Spirit we keep the nature of the law then we have fulfilled the law making the need for law (which is transgression) to be non existent. Which is why it says. Against such there is no law.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Now do you think I am the first person to think all this through. These teachers of yours scour a few surface scriptures and make a judgement to suit their purposes. They don't fully understand the actions and interplay between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. Or else they understand it in an extremeley distorted and aberrant way. But these things have been understood by the great doctors and teachers of the church such as Augustine. Why do you think the ministers of the faith study for years to learn all this stuff. I'm sorry but its NOT easy. Its extremely difficult. These priests and ministers of the faith did not go to seminary to sit on their thumbs. They were sent there so that they would understand the precepts of the Christian faith, so that they can properly defend the flock from false teachers. They understand the scriptures in far greater depth by very many orders of magnitude compared to these false teachers who scour a scripture here and grab a scripture there as the ignore the majority of the scripture.

This is why it is so important for us laymen to trust and obey our properly trained ministers. Because they understand all this stuff properly whereas the fools who follow after money grubbing false teachers do not.

who said anything about being a vegetarian? go back and read what I posted and quit misinterpreting.




where do it says every creature is good for food? It dosen't

every creature is good for its purpose.




keep reading and you will see where the LORD sanctified the animals.

Gen8v 18: And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:
19: Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.
20: And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

Gen7v1: And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2: Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
3: Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
4: For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
5: And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.
6: And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
7: And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
8: Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
9: There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

we have a separation of clean beast and unclean beast before the book of levitcus was written. we have clean and unclean beast before there was a religon or separation of people. we have a clean and unclean list before there was a Jew or Gentile





No! what you have written in Acts 10 is Peter clearly telling US that long ater Jesus death and ressurection he still had not eaten anything common or unclean all, and let's finish reading and get the understanding that Peter had lacked.

church folks should continue reading the chapter to to get more understanding, instead they stop at the verse you stopped at. Now they are confused

lets read on down to vs 28 and get understanding like Peter had to get.

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Acts10 has nothing to do with food, its about people.

Israel had a law that they could not or would not talked to another nation concerning God.
It tells you that in the verse




what law was the school master? God and Israel has many Laws.

Here is a few to help you decide.

10 commandments
dietary law
weekly sabbath
7 annual sabbath
circumscion
and every word that proceedth out of the mouth of God
animal sacrifice

which one is the school master?