How will the Lord keep those from the hour of temptaion(great tribulation)
that will come upon the whole world?

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth

The great tribulation, the hour of temptation, the time of trouble,
this is the beast and false prophets time to rule.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Mar 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly [is] ready, but the flesh [is] weak.

Only the Lord can deliver.

ozell

Psalms91 tells of a secret place for the righteous in God during the tribulation and wrath of God.

Its in the bible

its not a rapture.

Its on this earth.


Psa 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

I will say of the LORD, [He is] my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, [and] from the noisome pestilence.

4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth [shall be thy] shield and buckler.

5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; [nor] for the arrow [that] flieth by day;

6 [Nor] for the pestilence [that] walketh in darkness; [nor] for the destruction [that] wasteth at noonday.

7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; [but] it shall not come nigh thee.

8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

9 Because thou hast made the LORD, [which is] my refuge, [even] the most High, thy habitation;

10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

12 They shall bear thee up in [their] hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.

15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I [will be] with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

Hello Ozell,


Welcome to the forum and I agree with your post.

thanks for the welcome and triple thanks for responding

peace to you in Jesus might name

In Isaiah 16 the Lamb is sent to the wilderness unto the daughters of zion who are being hid from the spoiler.

This lamb then proceed to go to sit on the throne of David judging and seeking judgement.

This is Jesus. and it goes hand in glove with Matthew24 and Revelation 12

The people in judea fled into the mountains. Matthew24

The woman fled into the wilderness. Revelation 12

The secret place in Psalm 91

Why is it called a secret place in Psalms 91?

the christians are talking about a rapture there nothing secret about that.

the secret is that the Lord has a place on this earth to protect us.

The Lord took Israel into the wilderness during Moses day, they did not have to go the way they did, yet the Lord took them there and they were protected by him.

No other nation could touch them without his permission.

Isa 16:1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.

4: Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.

5: And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Some churches teach that the woman in the below verse is ONLY Israel.

This woman is all that come under the banner of Israel. spiritual and physically israel.

Israel is one of Jesus names.

Jesus is the God of us all.

If you are of the seed of Noah 3 sons, if you do what Jesus says you come under the banner of Israel.

The bride that Jesus will marry is this woman in revalation12 this is the church. This is you and I .

Look what he tells this woman or you can say his bride to do.

Rv 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

the church fled into the wilderness for 3-1// years. This wilderness was prepared by God.

You have to ask yourself why did the Lord prepare a place for this woman?

14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

For 3-1/2 years this woman was nourished in her place

15: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16: And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

satan could not get the woman. why? go back and read Psalms 91 [color=blue]He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide, There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

so satan goes after the one's who did not believe that the Lord have a place of deliverance on this earth.

Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation flee.

Mk 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

If you are in Judea you are to flee into the mountains.

19: For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be

In revelation 12 he commanded the same thing be done, the order was put out to the church which covers the whole world,
The wilderness is the mountains of Judea.

Read the Exodus about where the wilderness is and you will see that a lot of is not only desert but also mountains. .


This prophecy has not happened yet, but it will and those of us that have our eyes on will see this and understand. The hand of the LORD is in this place.

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

Isa 35:1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

2: It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.

3: Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.

4: Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

5: Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

6: Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

7: And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

8: And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

9: No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:

10: And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

The desert becoming full of vegation and water. We have to ask ourselves why?

I wouldnt conclude that means great tribulation.. It could for our time mean the judgment day..and of course that means there will be a separation..of the good and the evil..

The Lord will keep the living believers of the Body of Christ [both Jew and Gentile] from His coming judgment period [His hour of trial against an unbelieving world] as promised. The believers of today's Body of Christ have no need to be judged for unbelief. Noah was not killed in the flood for unbelief because he was a believer. The Lord destroyed the rest of humanity for unbelief. It will be no different in regard to the Lord's next and coming judgment period of the tribulation. There will be those who turn and believe during the the tribulation of both national Israel and the nations .... but most will be killed during the period. The only guarantee of protection will be for national ethnic Israelites including the mortal 144,000 believing Israelites sealed, those mortal believing Israelites who flee into the wilderness from the land of Israel, and the Lord's two Israelite prophets during their service. No others who become believers during the tribulation period will be given protection.

The Lord will first immortalize today's believers, both the dead and the living. Then He will bring His tribulations against the intransigent inhabitors of the earth for unbelief. The entire period of 7 years will be "great" tribulation. It is the believing mortal remnant part of national ethnic Israel that will turn and believe during the tribulation period and will be given the "hiding place" from the beast and his followers ..... not the immortalized church. National Israel will enter the tribulation period in unbelief just as most of the nation is today. A mortal remnant part of the nation will turn and believe and will be protected during the tribulation period. These will flee into the Jordanian wilderness for protection by the Lord when the beast and his followers invade and occupy the land of Israel.

Jesus said


Rv 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

this is a future event that will affect the entire planet.

lets go to Matthew 24 and read what Jesus said

Mt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Revelation is the revealing

the GT is a time that has not happened upon the earth as of yet.

Take a look at the below verse. This verse says a whole lot concerning the topic The Hour of Temptation.

2Pt 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

How do the Lord deliver? in what manner do he use?

Who are the Godly?

How are we delivered from the Great Tribulation?

Are we delivered before or after this time period.

To obey God is a major concern to God. It started with Adam and Eve and it continues today.

Hi Stephan

where is this written?

Is not the Lord the Lord of all.


look what Jesus said

Matthew24v15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

If it was possible to decieve the very elect

it is not possible because of foreknowledge

1Pt 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.


Paul said to the Jew first then the Gentile

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

all that have the knowledge and clean will be there

We have to ask why is the a Lord preparing this desert/mountains.?

Its obvious that it is for the future.

Who will go there?

where is it?

Jesus say's that he is the same yesterday today and forever.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Most of the world know that the Isralites went into the wilderness after leaving Egypt. This is very clear.

What is not clear is who led them in the wilderness and I'm not referring to Moses. They were led around by clound and by fire, but who was in the cloud or flame of fire?

1Cor 10:1: Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2: And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3: And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5: But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6: Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

7: Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

8: Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9: Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

Mt 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Jesus is the Christ, He is the one who led the Israelites. The same wilderness Jesus took the israelites in, this is th same wilderness that Jesus say flee to.

This is the wilderness where the Israelites received the 10 commandments, the is the same wilderness that JESUS was in.
Yes this is the Jesus the Christ that said I am God and I change not.

This is why it is very important to listen and hear and do what this God says. He was there in the beginning and he will be there in the end.

Deliverance from the great tribulation and the wrath of God will be in the wilderness for the elect. Those that have the foreknowledge of God they will go.

1Pt 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Jesus said when you see this abomination of desolation. flee.
Flee where? study the above scriptures and come to the fore knowledge of what God has written.

Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


Rv 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16: And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

we are in it..



inwhich the day of judgment will..

Hello Ozell,


Welcome to the forum.

You stated: Psalms91 tells of a secret place for the righteous in God during the tribulation and wrath of God.

Its in the bible

its not a rapture.

Its on this earth.

My response: I agree with you. I also agree that this place-of -safety is in Israel. Would you like to compare notes? Do you have a website? I have created a brief synopsis on my website which provides some of my findings. If you are interested, read it and let’s discuss it.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
http://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000

we are delivered out of it, so saints will go through it..

rev 7:

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Praise Jesus

It's a blessing to know that there are people out there that know of God's place of safety.

The bible class I attend sabbath day lesson on 05-31-08 was The wilderness the place of safety during the great tribulation.

I just retitled it the hour of temptation and addedmore scriptures and verses.

I looked at the site and will be reading it.

ozell




there is two sets of saints in the bible.

This is for the naysayers concerning the wilderness.

Who is this Woman that fled into the wilderness?

Rv 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Where is this secret place of the most high?

Psalm 91v1-16
v1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

Where is this wilderness and solitary place of God?

Isaiah 35v1-10
v1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

Why is the Lord(lamb) sent to the wilderness to the daughters of Zion?

Isaiah 16v1-5
1Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.

why is this happening in the wilderness?

Isaiah 41v17-20

17When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them.

18I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.

19I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:

20That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.

Isaiah 43v19-20
19Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.

20The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

Its obvious that this place called the wilderness is not taught in many churches. It trully is a secret. God reveal his secret to his prophets.

THE WILDERNESS IS IN THE BIBLE AND IT IS A FUTURE EVENT.

WHY IS THAT ??

Fore knowledge is the key.


You do not have to go through the great tribulation if you do what God says. flee

To the Jew first then to the gentile. flee.

We all have to come under the umbrella of Israel.

when Israel came out of Egypt the bible says that there was a mixed multitude.

Jesus said hear o Israel.

Jesus did not say hear o Israel, hamite gentle, egyptians, etc.

He called all the mixed multitude by one name

THAT NAME IS ISRAEL
BY THE WAY ISRAEL IS ONE OF GODS NAME.


We will escape the great tribulation. and here is how?

Rv 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

5: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16: And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Notice satan went back to make war with the REMNANT of the woman seed.
This REMNANT kept God's commandments and believed in Jesus.
But something was lacking in this REMNANT.
What was lacking? THEY EITHER DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE WILDERNESS OR THEY DID NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY NEEDED TO GO THERE.

Again read the above verses. why did the woman flee to the wilderness?
why is the wilderness called a place prepared of by God? not man! God!
why was the remnant left?
satan knows about the wilderness, but most christian don't.
why is this even in the bible?
the woman is protected for 3-1/2 years from the serpent. why?
notice that it don't say 7 years or a prophetic week.?

Here is why the Woman fled and the remnant did not.

1Pt 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Rv 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rv 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Rv 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The Lord said that he will keep thee from the hour of temptaion.

Now you will you tell me why people keep calling GOD a liar.

Why are people saying that we will go through this great tribulation?

the Lord says different.

RIDE WITH THE LORD

OBEY HIS VOICE

HARDEND NOT YOUR HEART.

the Marriage of the Lamb is in the wilderness.

The woman fled to the wilderness a PLACE PREPARED BY GOD for 3-1/2 years

Rev12v6: And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16: And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The Lord brought this woman into the wilderness where he will plead face to face and make a convenant with her.

Ezek20v 35: And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36: Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.

37: And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38: And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

The Lord will bring this woman into the wilderness where he will betroth her. This woman in the wilderness is the bride.

Hosea2v14: Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.

15: And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.

16: And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.

17: For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.

18: And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.

19: And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.

20: I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.

Jesus is the bridegroom

Matthew9v14: Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?

15: And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.

One day we will hear the bridegroom voice and we will be in joy

John3v28: Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

29: He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Jesus left a parable for us to understand about his marriage to us.

First he called Israel they would not come, then he called all the son's of Adam from the highways gentiles and hamites come to the wedding.

Matthew 22v1-13

Paul tells the gentiles that the are a chaste virgin to be espoused to one husband which is Jesus

2Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

God is married unto thee o backsliding children.

Jeremiah3v1: They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.

14: Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

15: And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

16: And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.

17: At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

18: In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.

19: But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.

20: Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the LORD.

This marriage takes pace when the Lord comes and when the bride is revealed for she is hidden in the wilderness.

Joel 2v1: Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

2: A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

15: Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:

16: Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

The Lord comes for his bride to be married after the trump is blown and a fast and a solemn assembly

Remember he called all in Matthew AND WE ARE TOLD TO BE IN JOY WHEN WE HEAR HIS VOICE.

Revelation19v7: Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8: And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9: And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

The Marraige takes place on earth not in heaven.
Our husband Jesus is the God of the whole earth and here is where we marry him.

Isaiah54v1: Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

2: Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;

3: For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

4: Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

5: For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.6: For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.

7: For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

8: In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.


Jn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

Jesus commanded us to flee when we see the AD in the holy place.

for then shall be great tribulation.

We know the great tribulation will happen in Jerusalem and all over the world.

Jesus said flee when you see the AD in the holy place, Jesus did not say flee when you see the holy place or flee when you feel like it.

He gave specific instruction when to flee. not BEFORE and not AFTER

Matthew24v3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4: And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.....................

15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

this is a time when the whole world will worship the beast.

Rv 13:4: And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Rv 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

13: And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14: And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15: And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

So how do we escape this? obeying Jesus voice. FLEE

Rv 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Notice that the woman flee from the serpent in Revealtion 12 and the dragon in revelation 13 is the one who gives his power to the beast but actually is the one who is really worshipped.

this serpent, this dragon is satan who is coming after the woman.

I can get the tempter to run at full speed in a mater of seconds. It doesn't have to last an hour.

oh yeah, then prove it by scripture please ?

as i believe there is one fold or household of saints..

jn 10:

16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

eph 2:
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

jn 11:

52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Uh,...you might want to re-examine your interpretation.
Yes, in a sense it could be said that theBride is delivered out of it And yet again the trib saints will go through it.
As to the pre-tribulation position, there are many passages which lend credence to this view. One of the most conclusive is Revelation 3:10 where our Lord promises the church of Philadelphia (widely interpreted to be not only an actual church in Asia, but also representative of the faithful believers in the last days) "Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world." This is very consistent biblically with God's previous judgments. In Genesis 18, Abraham successfully argues that God will not destroy the righteous with the wicked. In fact, in Genesis 19, the angel who came to bring judgment onto Sodom tells Lot (who is called righteous in 2 Peter) he can do nothing until Lot is removed from there (Gen 19:22).............................benny

Hello ozell,

Welcome to the forum.

You stated: Psalms91 tells of a secret place for the righteous in God during the tribulation and wrath of God.

Its in the bible

its not a rapture.

Its on this earth.



I agree with you. I would also like to say that I agree that Israel is the place-of-safety. I have found Mt Zion in Jerusalem to be that place.

I would like to compare notes. Do you have a webpage? I have documented some of my finding at http://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000 This may of interest to you. I look forward to your response.

InYehoshua,
Guy Smith

How do you figure that Israel is a place of safety during the A.O.D.?
.........................benny

Hello Ozell,

Welcome to the forum. This is my third attempt to post.

You stated: Psalms91 tells of a secret place for the righteous in God during the tribulation and wrath of God.

Its in the bible

its not a rapture.

Its on this earth

My response: I agree with you. I also agree that Israel is the place-of-safety. I have found Mt Zion in Jerusalem to be that place. I would like to compare notes. Do you have a webpage? I have documented my findings at http://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000 I look forward to your response.

In Yehoshua,
GuySmith

That[philedelphia] very well can have a application to the 2nd coming and the elect not coming into condemnation on that day..we are already in the great tribulation period now..

The tribuation period is not Gods wrath lol..its just tribulation, saints are to expect..look, this is the church acts 14:

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

the word much is πολύς and is also translated great :

matt 2:

In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping [for] her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

rev 7:

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Do you even know what the hour of temptation is?

Jesus said

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Jehovah said

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

so where on earth did the Lord protect a nation people?

Exodus for the answer.

one set of saints are these people here

Mat24v15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

how are they elected?
1Pt 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

what did these people do when they saw the Abomination of Desolation? they fled .

Rv 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

another set of saints will be here during the great tribulation.


Rv 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

there is a group of saints that will make it to the place of safety

there is a group of saint who will be here in the GT

why?

foreknowledge.

knowing what to do when it is time to do it.

read the chapter I put, I put the verse for time.








Jesus said a hour which is 3.5 years during the GT

yes

Jesus has it written

Rv 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The Future

Rv 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rv 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent

Isa 35:1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

2: It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.

3: Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.

4: Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

5: Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

6: Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

7: And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

8: And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

9: No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:

10: And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

Rv 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rv 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent

Isa 41:17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them.

18: I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.

19: I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:

20: That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.

The tree that the Lord name, they all don't grow in the same region,
they all grow in different parts of the world, but at this time they will be growing in the wilderness. Consider the hand of the Lord.

Ozell,

I agree that the place-of-safety is in Israel. I disagree that it will be the foothills of Judea. The AC is slated to kill 2/3 of all the inhabitants of Israel, how do you think they are going to withstand this assault?

InYehoshua,
Guy Smith
http://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000

I can't tell by your answer if you know or not.
I know that the Lord will bring water out of the face of the rock and manna out of the sky again to feed and water His sheep during the three and a half year Great Tribulation.
By the hands and faith of His faithful Saints, Elect, Firstfruits, Elite, Priests, Holy Messengers.

The hour of temptation is when the Lord's two witnesses take away from earth, the water and the food, for 1260 days. Those who restrain, namely the armies and policing agencies of the world, will become as worthless and vile as everyone else and will thus be taken out of the way.
It will be total anarchy and mayhem world wide.
Finally the only thing on earth to eat and drink, for those without faith, will be each other.
The abomination of desolation. For where the carcass is there the eagles who hunt and kill their food will be.

I am beginning to think that Snorch may have recognized thar you do not understand what the Hour of Temptation means..No disrespect intended.........What is really a concern to me is that you say that we are living in the "GREAT TRIBULATION........I asure you that we are not! The Great Tribulation shall be a time of trouble that has not ever been upon the world nor will it ever again.......The great depression was much worse than what it is today....World ecomomic collasp has not happen yet....if it had already happened, many of us would not have internet service because we would not be able to afford it..............gotta get off the pc for now, maybe we can pick up on this some more later ...God Bless you .........................benny

Jesus said

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

We know deliverance has to be done the same but on a greater scale(more people)

1. Israel is not a wilderness I'm talking about the true bounderies of Israel from the nileto the Euphrates

2. The Abomination of Desolation and the Political\military leader will have control over Jersualem and all Israel at this time.

Jesus said

Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

2Thes 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Rv 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2: But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The gentiles and there armies are in Jerusalem and controlling ,Israel It cannot be the place of safety.

Now Psalms91 says
1: He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

what secret about the Israel?

2: I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
3: Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
4: He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
5: Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6: Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7: A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8: Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9: Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;

10: There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
evil will be in the land of Israel at this time

11: For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
His angels will protect us as they did with the Israleites

12: They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
13: Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.
14: Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
15: He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
16: With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.


Now Look at Isaiah 35

Isa 35:

1: The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
2: It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.
3: Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.
4: Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
5: Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
6: Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.
7: And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.
8: And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
9: No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:
10: And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

It has to be a wilderness
It has to be empty when the servant of God come.









Ps 91:11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

The Hour of Temptation is the GT

we are on the same page.

Hello Ozell,

Did you read my website? I ask because if you did, then I won’t have to repeat myself.

You stated: The gentiles and there armies are in Jerusalem and controlling ,Israel It cannot be the place of safety.

My response: Then how do you explain:

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Isaiah 4:2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire. 5 Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over all the glory will be a canopy. 6 It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain.

Rev 11: 1I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.

And when Christ comes to fight for Jerusalem (described by Zechariah) , how did those individuals (that are instructed to flee) get there, unless they were there for the duration of the GT.

Zech 14: 1 A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided among you.
2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake [a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Concerning the woman and the manchild:

Rev 12: 2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Isaiah identifies who the woman and the man child is.

Isa 66: 7Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

So Mt Zion in Jerusalem is the woman (and the man child is her children), which, according to Rev 12 is to be protected and fed for the 1260 days of the GT.

And if Mt Zion in Jerusalem is the place-of-safety, then why would Christ instruct those in Judea to flee away from Jerusalem?

Matt 24: 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

And the answer is: He’s not. Judea is the country side which surrounds Jerusalem. Christ is instructing those in Judea to head for the mountains of Jerusalem, which is built on three mountains (hills) two of which is Mt Zion and the other is Mt Moriah.

Think about it. The two witnesses will be protected in Jerusalem for the duration of the GT. Why can’t that umbrella be extended to encompass a larger group, like the 144,000? Which BTW are also found on Mt Zion in Jerusalem.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Ozell,

If you were to go back and review my post and threads (and I am not suggesting you do) you would find that I am exclusively proclaiming the same message as you: That God has provided a physical place-of-safety for a pocket of Christians to survive the GT. The only issue we have is whether the Mt Zion is the place or not.

I recommend you read my sight (a five minute read) . There are also more details I would like share with you.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

.....So christian need to be careful, and research the truth..................

Joel 2:32

EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED = Peter quotes these verses and states they were fulfilled in the life of Christ and on the day of Pentecost (see Acts 2:16-21). This is not a blanket salvation for everyone in the world, but only for those who "call on the name of the Lord." A wicked person will not "call" on the Lord in repentance and therefore will not be saved. Christ's ministry was to save the lost, and these signs were to point to Him as the Messiah. Christians heeded Christ's warning in Matthew 24:15-22, and fled Jerusalem during a brief opportunity before the final destruction in 70 A.D.



ON MOUNT ZION AND IN JERUSALEM = This location specifies the deliverance would occur in the city of Jerusalem -- precisely what happened in 30 A.D. at the conclusion of Christ’s ministry when He was crucified and rose from the dead

............................................benny

…..benny,

You stated: ON MOUNT ZION AND IN JERUSALEM = This location specifies the deliverance would occur in the city of Jerusalem -- precisely what happened in 30 A.D. at the conclusion of Christ’s ministry when He was crucified and rose from the dead

My response: Determining the timing of when Joel 2:32 was fulfilled or when it will be fulfilled is the issue. To determine that we need to determine when Joel 2:31 was or will be fulfilled.

Let’s review Joel 2:31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

You stated: Joel 2:32

EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED = Peter quotes these verses and states they were fulfilled in the life of Christ and on the day of Pentecost (see Acts 2:16-21). This is not a blanket salvation for everyone in the world, but only for those who "call on the name of the Lord." A wicked person will not "call" on the Lord in repentance and therefore will not be saved. Christ's ministry was to save the lost, and these signs were to point to Him as the Messiah. Christians heeded Christ's warning in Matthew 24:15-22, and fled Jerusalem during a brief opportunity before the final destruction in 70 A.D.

I will grant you that Acts 2:16-21 quotes Joel 2:31 and that they feel that this passage was being fulfilled in their time. However, there is a problem. Christ states that this event will take place after the tribulation period.

Matt 24: 29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

So, one of them didn‘t get it right; you pick.

name='guysmith' date='Jun 3 2008, 04:35 AM' post='192711']
Hello Ozell,

Did you read my website? I ask because if you did, then I won’t have to repeat myself.

Hello Guy
Yes I read it.

You stated: The gentiles and there armies are in Jerusalem and controlling ,Israel It cannot be the place of safety.

My response: Then how do you explain:



Is the events above before the Gt or after the GT?

the Lord comes after the GT.
we flee into the wilderness before the GT begins.

When is deliverance? Joel says when Jesus calls. when do Jesus call

1Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

and \or

Rv 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.


In Isa 4

Isaiah said in that day.
what day is he talking about?
In that day a lot of things will be happening but they can only happen when the Lord is here. take a look at the first verse

Isaiah4v1: And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

why would a man need 7 wives in the wilderness? this must happen after the battle of armageddon.
why?

Isa 13:12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

have the golden wedge of ophir been found, if it has it is very few. so will men be in that day.

lets again look at in that day, we must find the day the Lord is talking about.

from the verse you used I took it all that way back to Isa 2

Isa 2:11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

Isa 2:17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

Isa 2:20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;

Isa 3:7 In that day shall he swear, saying, I will not be an healer; for in my house is neither bread nor clothing: make me not a ruler of the people.

Isa 3:18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,

Isa 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

Isa 4:2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.

now go to chapter 2 of Isaiah and we will see the day Isaiah is referring to

Isa2v1: The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2: And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3: And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4: And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5: O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.
6: Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.
7: Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots:
8: Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:
9: And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not.
10: Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty.
11: The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

now we know what day, the day in the last day when the Lord will judge, when is that, when he comes.

when we go to the wilderness it is when the AoD reveals himself sitting in the temple.

the Lord don't come until 3.5 years later.





The Gentiles are the one's who give the Israelis permission to build there temple.

we can't flee until the temple is built and the Aod moves into it.



you are correct concerning this verse. The woman or church is in the wilderness during this time.


1Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

we are part of the ones that are alive.




You have the right book just the wrong chapter.

The man child is Jesus

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

who was caught up to God and his throne.

Rev12v5: And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Jesus is the only one who has ascended up to heaven.

Jn 16:17 Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father?


now for the woman.
this is Israel.

Rev12v1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Let go to Genesis and find out about these 12 stars, sun and moon.

Gen37v5: And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.
6: And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
7: For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
8: And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
9: And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

11 tribes + 1 Joseph = 12
Jacob =moon
leah= sun

Israel is the woman. but the gentiles and hamites have to come under the banner of Israel.
which is another subject.




take a look at the below verse, where is the house of the great God, its in Jerusalem, where did Ezra place this house In Judea, The temple, and Jerusalem is in Judea.

Ezra 5:8 Be it known unto the king, that we went into the province of Judea, to the house of the great God, which is builded with great stones, and timber is laid in the walls, and this work goeth fast on, and prospereth in their hands.

it is written that the 144,000 came out of great tribulation. they are not in the wilderness. the people in the wilderness are not going to go through the GT.


Rv 71: And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2: And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3: Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4: And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5: Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6: Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7: Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8: Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
9: After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10: And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11: And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12: Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13: And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

ozell,

When the time comes, the armies of the AC will kill 2/3 of everyone in Israel, which hill are you going to be on?

Guy

Ex 15:22 So Moses brought Israel from the Red sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water.


Ex 16:1 And they took their journey from Elim, and all the congregation of the children of Israel came unto the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departing out of the land of Egypt.


Ex 17:1 And all the congregation of the children of Israel journeyed from the wilderness of Sin, after their journeys, according to the commandment of the LORD, and pitched in Rephidim: and there was no water for the people to drink.


Ex 19:2 For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount.

Ex 19:1 In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai.

I will not be in Israel nor will I go to Israel intil the Lord set up his kingdom.

As for where I will be during the AC rule.

In the wilderness.

the Sinai Penisula.

this is where the Lord took the isrealites, this is where the servant of God who have knowledge flee.


Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.