MELCHIZEDEK: Do we leave in Gen.14/Psa.110? Or take out Heb.7?


Are literal scriptures teaching Melchizedek as a type of Christ?


Disclaimer:
I am requesting that my four questions (#1,#2,#3,#4) be marked/denoted, so I can keep up
with what question is being answered.


Question #1:
My question, if divine patterns between the Old and New Testaments do not exist, or if
they do exist who is Melchizedek ?


Question #2:
Does the Old Testament reveal any answers from the New Testament, subject Melchizedek ?


Question #3:
Does the New Testament reveal any answers from the Old Testament, subject Melchizedek ?


Question #4:
Are the scriptures (Gen.14 / Psa.110 / Heb.7) the literal or subjective description of Melchizedek ?


Thank you Excubitor and Stephen, you both are very dear to me. And I appreciate you both in
the inspiration of this topic.



EXCERPT from excubitor to crownsevenalphabet:
Yesterday, 08:54 PM ( Thursday, May 15th, 2008 )
If the pattern was divine then God would have coded feeding and hunger into all those passages. You can't change the rules, chop some scriptures in and others out and then claim it is a divine pattern. This is what Richard biblewheel does, now you are doing it too.



EXCERPT from Stephen to crownsevenalphabet:
QUOTE (Stephen @ May 3 2008, 10:48 AM)
CSA,

"And when you are under the anointing my brother, ' Divine Truth ' is promised in the end times."

Only as revealed by the literal scriptures and the Lord's guidance in my opinion. Nothing else can add anything of significance, and in fact can actually be misleading.



Research:

THE OLD TESTAMENT :
MELCHIZEDEK IN THE HEBREW BIBLE : appears in two places in the Hebrew Bible: Genesis 14:18-20 and Psalm 110:4.


THE NEW TESTAMENT :
HEBREWS 7. Hebrews is the only work in the New Testament


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melchizedek_Priesthood

The Melchizedek priesthood in scripture
From the day that Moses brought the Torah/the Law down from Mount Sinai it was the tribe of Levi which was commissioned to serve as priests before YHVH, the God of Israel. This continued on into the era of the Kings of Israel. Melchizedek, King of Salem, a contemporary of Abraham, was not from the tribe of Levi and in fact pre-dated the patriarch Levi by two generations. The Torah and the Old Testament affirms that Melchizedek was "priest of God Most High." (Genesis 14:18) King David in the Psalms refers to the future King of kings or Messiah as a "priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek." (Psalm 110:1-4.) Judaism traditionally identifies Melchizedek (lit. "My king is righteous") with Shem.

Melchizedek is referred to again in Hebrews 5:6-10; Hebrews 6:20; Hebrews 7:1-21: "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek"; and Hebrews 8:1. The writer to the Hebrews points out that Melchizedek received tithes from Abraham. Since Levi was as yet unconceived by Abraham when he gave tithes to Melchizedek then it follows that the priestly office of Melchizedek is greater than the priesthood of Levi.

And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises" (Hebrews 7:5-6).

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law" (Hebrews 7:11-12).

Hebrews 7:3 in the New Testament refers to Melchizedek as a king "without father or mother or genealogy," a reference which some Christians take as a type of Christ.

was Melchizedek merely human?..........or DIVINE?

was Jesus Christ merely human?...........or DIVINE?

Jesus was BOTH human and Divine

His title is the" LORD JESUS CHRIST"

LORD = the One we worship and serve and obey...........He is GOD/MAKER/KING/OWNER/MASTER

JESUS = His human name...........He is man

CHRIST = His Heavenly Title.........DEITY.........HE IS GOD


if he had been god, but not man,............he could not be our KINSMAN-REDEEMER, IMMANUEL, BRIDEGROOM, SAVIOR, BROTHER
and God cannot die..........unless He becomes MAN..........a GOD/MAN can (and did) die, for our sins, salvation

mat 1;21
2 cor 5;19
1 cor 2;2
john 14;14


Melchizedek was a God or man?..............it's so confusing!...........i don't know..........GOD LEFT IT "CONFUSING", SO IT WOULD PAINT A PICTURE-STORY/PROPHECY OF THE COMING "LORD JESUS CHRIST"

So, you are saying it is a pattern only. Not to be taken literal ? And could you add
question#1,2,3,4 to your opinions/answers. I want this to be a teaching tool.
That is why I listed the disclaimer. Without the numbers, I cannot keep up with what
answer is applied to which of the SPECIFIC four questions. Thank you !

( quote from Dennis )
Melchizedek was a God or man?..............it's so confusing!...........i don't know..........GOD LEFT IT "CONFUSING", SO IT WOULD PAINT A PICTURE-STORY/PROPHECY OF THE COMING "LORD JESUS CHRIST"

Melchizedek was king of shalem. This is crucial to understanding the purpose of the Gen. account. Righteousness is known also as tamim. Shalem means visitation, intimacy. Jesus Christ visited us in true righteousness...as promised.

It also refers to the Urim and Tumim. Does anyone know why?

John

Thank you, John :

However, would you please review my disclaimer and list question #1,2,3,4 by your
opinions/answers ? And this is the answer to the Urim/Thummin question ....

http://www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/godly.htm
On close inspection of the various deities’ names in Genesis, John Marshall Holt divulged that El "is the name that turns up with the greatest variety of forms among the divine names in Genesis." Among others he mentioned !wyl[ la (El Elyon) in Genesis 14:18, the deity Abraham made sacrifice to during his visit with Melchizedek. He listed la tyb lah (El Bethel) at Genesis 31:13, and yar la (El Roi) at Genesis 16:13, and includes ~lw[ la (El Olam) at Genesis 21:33.

From another angle on this open-eyed visionary concept, dealing with the familiar device of the Urim & Thummim, we read "... The radiation of the Urim & Thummim has to penetrate into the heart [hence the reason for their being born on the heart of the high priest] the intellectual centre of the high priest, in order to enable him to ‘read’ the will of YHWH from the Urim & Thummim. So the high priest will be YHWH’s real representative and mouth." The y. Yoma 7.3 "mentions the tradition that the priest heard a voice (from God) that gave the answer... the high priest was to speak by the ruah haqqodes (by looking at the breastpiece in a prophetic vision and seeing the message in the projected letters)..." Van Dam noted that Y. Kaufmann associated the Urim & Thummim with the reference to light in an oracle to Esarhaddon. "In drawing the parallel between the Urim & Thummim and the light in the oracle, he wrote: ‘Here again, the divinely bestowed Jewel and its light . . .and tokens of the welfare for the Kingdom.’"

Melchizedek cannot be Shem, as he has a geneology. Melchizedek is a mysterious figure, there is no doubt. Could he be Enoch? An arch-angel? Or just a man who has an interesting name.

Regardless of who he is, there is a reason why he is there. This is where I put my focus.

John

This excerpt, is the ending two paragraphs of a most excellant historical rabbit trail of details :
( also has reference to Urim/Thummim )

http://www.lumengentleman.com/content.asp?id=156
So also with Christ, even though He was not descended from the tribe of Levi, still He is a priest - not "of the order of Levi," but "of the order of Melchizedek." Neither is this a strange novelty, because, as St. Paul has been pointing out since practically the first verse of Hebrews, Solomon himself was called a "priest" who belonged to "the order of Melchizedek." This is a distinctive characteristic of the Messiah-King, the Son of David, who rules as a priest-king (like Melchizedek was) from the city of Jirah-Salem (where Melchizedek ruled).

This, it would appear, is the common-sense logic behind Hebrews 7:1-3, which relies (at least in part) upon the knowledge of the Jewish history-tradition: Melchizedek is Shem, and Shem is a priest-king of the order of the righteous first-born. Shem's priestly order, the order of the first-born, was temporarily suspended in Exodus 32, when the Israelites worshiped the Golden Calf and only the Levites were willing to stand on the side of Moses (and of God), and impose punishment on the people. But this temporary provision of the Levitical priesthood was not meant to be permanent; ultimately, as reflected in Psalm 110, the priesthood of the first-born (the "order of Melchizedek") was to be re-established under the Davidic Messiah - and thus it was restored through Christ, a priest after "the order of Melchizedek."

Shalem is not a real city.

John

Please explain ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Jerusalem
In the Book of Genesis, Salem or Shalem is the name of the city during the time of Abraham. It is ruled by Melchizedek, whose name denotes a righteous king. Salem is also regarded as a shorter name for Jerusalem.

The name of the city that was before Jerusalem was Jebus, not shalem. Shalem is a word like Zion...not a physical place.

"In Shalem also is His tabernacle, and His dwelling place in Zion." Ps. 76:2

Ok, help me with these two questions:

http://www.lumengentleman.com/content.asp?id=156
This is a distinctive characteristic of the Messiah-King, the Son of David, who rules as a priest-king (like Melchizedek was) from the city of Jirah-Salem (where Melchizedek ruled).


Did the author of this link mean Jirah-Salem or should it have been Jebus-Salem ?

Now, you open the floodgate brother (ha-----------)

So the Shalem is His (IHVH) tabernacle, and His (IHVH) dwelling in Zion ? Total spiritual
dwelling, non-earth. Correct ?

Well, I can see with the word play, how easy it would be to get off track between
the spelling differences of Salem versus Shalem ( by the one alphabet : H )

. . . the ' H ' is standing out . . . as the Tribe of Reuben, symbolic of water bearer- Man
of Ezekiel.

There is no salem..in Hebrew it is shalem. Yes, it is a spiritual place. If I show up someplace and say I'm the earl of widget...do I have to prove that such a place exists in reality. No, I would be called the earl of widget.

Shalem is also a spiritual condition. Have you heard of the shulamite? Isaac came back shalem after having encountered the "angel".

Again it is the spiritual message that counts here. We may never know in this present age exactly how the Genesis account came about.

Shalom

John

Click here: Hebrews Historic Melchizedek
http://www.tulip.org/Hebrews/Heb061.htm


(EXCERPT)
Introduction: There are three lessons that we must take from this short passage. The first lesson is the essential theme in this chapter is to show that Melchizedek and his priesthood is and was superior to the priesthood of Aaron. A second lesson revolves around the precise nature of the person Melchizedek and his likeness to the future Son of God. Third we must realize that we are talking about a call to priesthood unlike that expected and understood in the Old Covenant economy. John Brown explains this last point: “Melchisedec belonged to an order of priesthood where natural descent was not at all regarded – an order of things free from those artificial restrictions which formed a leading feature of the legal economy; and in this way he was a fit figure of our great New Testament High Priest, who did not belong to the family of Aaron or the tribe of Levi.”

So let us begin to explore these assessments of the ancient Apostle whose revealed arguments help us to understand that the New Covenant of Grace under the administration of Christ is indeed practical and also superior to the former Old Covenant Economy known and loved from the time of Moses.

Abraham met the Lord as Melchizedek before the Lord was born as a man.
Melchizedek visited Abraham as three Lords in the tent episode where Melchizedek stayed with Abraham and the other two Kings of Peace went off to bring Lot out of to Sodom and Gomorrah and then torch it.

The Lord God can blaze out of heaven as a burning bush or swoosh out of heaven as a whirlwind or come marching out as a legion of soldiers.
But the tried Stone, The precious corner stone is King of them all.

In Genesis 14, the Hebrew word that is used is really a compound word....melchi=King and zedek=be in the right, be right, have a just case. Therefore, v 18 could be translated as such:

And the king of righteousness and peace brought forth bread and wine; and he was the priest of the most high God.


It is interesting that this king brought forth BREAD AND WINE, a foreshadowing of the elements of communion that the Lord Jesus served at the last supper. What is going on in this passage is this king and Abraham are partaking of a covenant together and sealed with bread and wine, and this king blesses Abram, possessor of heaven and earth.


The writer of Hebrews clearly connotes that Christ is the one referred to in Psalms 110, Hebrews 5 and 7. So who is he? I think it was the pre-incarnate Christ in physical form.

Why would you need to remove any of the Scriptures?

Very good. However shalem does not mean peace, shalom does. Oh, the difference that a simple vav will make!

John

Abraham met the Lord as Melchizedek before the Lord was born as a man.

Thank you, for presenting the corner stone:

Click here: Cornerstone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone
Some cornerstones include time capsules from the time a particular building was built. The origins of this tradition are vague but its presence in Judeo-Christian countries can be associated with one quotation from the Old Testament (Psalm 118:22) cited six times in the New Testament (Matthew 21:42,Mark 12:10, Luke 20:17, Acts 4:11, Ephesians 2:20 and 1 Peter 2:7).[1]

The cornerstone concept is derived from the first stone set in the construction of a masonry foundation, important since all other stones will be set in reference to this stone, thus determining the position of the entire edifice.

And yes, I am leaning toward your commentary. About your question to remove
scriptures . . . this is the answer :

And the question about "Replying to Melchizedek: Do We Leave In Gen.14/psa.110? Or Take Out Heb.7?" -------------> I posed this, based on feedback, that seems to be very orthodox
from some forum members who do not believe in `pattern` prophecy, between the Old
and New Testaments. They take the scriptures as literal, not symbolic.

And I was making a point of reference, by suggesting do we keep only the
Old Testament two scriptures about Melchizedek and discard the one New Testament
scripture or vis-versa ?

Making a point, that we must use pattern's repeats in our understanding.

However, I do believe certain scriptures are literal.

Discernment, is the ticket.

I am in agreement with this commentary of yours: Very well stated . . .

It is interesting that this king brought forth BREAD AND WINE, a foreshadowing of the elements of communion that the Lord Jesus served at the last supper. What is going on in this passage is this king and Abraham are partaking of a covenant together and sealed with bread and wine, and this king blesses Abram, possessor of heaven and earth.

Thank you, for the post.

Click here: The Melchizedek Tradition by Horton » The Bible Archive
http://www.biblearchive.com/blog/2008/chri...tion-by-horton/

Melchizedek in the old order is a priest forever, Christ is another priest forever. Horton calls this antitypology. The old is a shadow of the true which was to come. The antitype gives us an idea of what the True is like. By understanding the features of the Old we get a better understanding of the New (such as in the case of the old tabernacle which was a shadow of the heavenly sanctuary). Each important element of the first is found in its true form in the type

The problem is not in any wording or meanings in the biblical text. The problem is a faltering foundation that is not true and has to many bad interpretations under it.

For instance you can hardly understand the link between Melchizedek and Christ. If you don't know who God is first.

Most miss the Lords teaching that "God is Spirit" "God is a Spirit". God is everywhere siting on His throne "heaven" "heaven is everywhere". God is everywhere all at the same time. He is in the center of the earth, under the ocean, out in space to the farthest galaxy, In the sun and in the son. He inhabits His creation. In Him we live and move and have our being. This is what asking God for the indwelling of His Spirit is all about. Ask Him to replace you with Him. It is painless and you don't miss anything that He removes and you grow in His knowledge, understanding and power.

Thank you, for these words of wisdom.