Hello all,

Before you even read this, know that I am not saying that the law does not have a use today. It does (but not as many think), and as believers we establish the law, but what I speak of, is the righteousness of the law, and the righteousness which is of Faith, Romans 10:5,6. This topic is not easy to fully expound on, and by the grace of God I will share what I have seen.

Please consider this,

The ten commandements written and engraved in stone by God are "done away", "abolished, a "ministration of condemnation", and the, "ministration of death". You will find this in these verses,

"But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones [refering to the ten commandements given by God to Moses, not just the ceremonial law or the written Old Testament only], was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; [again we see that this speaks of the ten commandments given in stone by Moses] which glory was to be done away.[pause at these words, DONE AWAY, and consider carefully what he is saying]...or the ministration of condemnation be glory,[remember that "by the law is the knowledge of sin, and the law is as a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ to be justified by faith, but after the faith is come we are NO LONGER under the schoolmaster] much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory...For if that which is done away [speaking again in context of the ten commandements given by Moses] was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious...And not as Moses which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished. But their minds were blinded: for until this same day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament, which veil is done away in Christ. [again reminding us exactly what he is talking about, namely the ten commandements and that they are abolished to the one who takes off the veil in the heart].

Now, does this mean that the we as believers can break the law of God, and sin? God forbid, we establish the law and the law is spiritual, the law of our life is the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The whole law is fulfilled in us as we walk in LOVE. If for example we lie or steal or covet etc, we bring ourself again under the law and the judgement. The law has a use then, which to expose sin and lead men to Christ. But it is not a outward path for righteousness. Let me explain. When a person who is not in the righteousness of faith hears the law, he may try to follow it outwardly and try to keep the law. But ne keep it as we read in scripture. Stephen even told the Pharisees that none of them keep the law. This is because the law was not made to be followed outwardly as a outward righteousness. The law was added because of sin, and "by the law ishe knowledge of sin" . The law exposes a man in sin when he does evil and shows him that he cannot keep the law. When a man realises he has broken Gods law and realizes he has gone against Gods love and truth, he may have godly sorrow which worketh repentance unto salvation. God will see those who are broken and seek his Son, and give them the righteousness of faith, for they are trusting in his rightness and not their own. Then the believers begin to walk in a different way, not according to an outward code only as if they can just follow a code. But they live from within in the power of the Spirit, in the tables of the heart.

This can be seen in different assemblies who try to follow OT law, and try to bind men to it. They walk according to their understanding of the righteousness of the law, but it will break them every time. For no outward stones can make a man righteous. This righteousness comes from an inward change.


Some even look at the New Testament this way and miss the Spirit. They attempt to just follow in their own ability, the writings of the New Testament and they create all sorts of laws and rules to obey in the outward works of the flesh. Now, we should walk in the truth of the Holy scriptures which is life in the Spirit in Christ, but the reality can often be imitated in the flesh by outward attempt at righteousness. Just as the pharisees seemed to do.

The pharisses may have thought they kept the righteousness of the law, but Jesus would say that they broke the Spirit of the law inwardly when they lusted etc. Jesus said, "...except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:20)

So many are troubled by this and say things like, "so are you saying we should not keep Gods law" They will come down heavy on you with this question. But the answer is, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. The law written and engraved in stones becomes a law of sin and death unto those who try to be justified by following it outwardly. But when they repent and believe the gospel, the law of the Spirit makes them free. The law is spiritual, and even the ten commandements reflect the law of Gods spirit. But they are showing men what they cannot do and breaking their pride and fleshy attempts at righteousness.


The whole law is showing us when we are not in love. But the very tables of stone that show this cannot be followed outwardly. An inward change is needed. Then all the reality of the law is fulfilled inwardly. We doned a outward law if we walk in the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Do you have to tell a believer who loves God and his neighbour, thou shalt not steal? All of the laws written and engraved in stone are fulfilled spiritually in us. Even the rest of the sabbath. For it is God who works in us to will and to do. I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.

Anyway, this is how I understand that the Mosaic Ten commandements are "done away, and abolished and a ministration of death and condemnation.


In the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus

Bruce

-Amen.

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchizedek there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

BRAVO, Bruce. Beautifully done!

It is for FREEDOM He set us free!

Excellent word Bruce, this is really edifying.

Just a question? Is it possible for a person to obey and keep the Ten Commandments- 24/7? In order to keep the commandments every day would have to involve a pure heart and mind; at all times. In order to keep the ten commandments would also involve a purity in our thought processes. The reason that I am asking is that I am still baffled and confused with the poster who claimed to be able to follow the ten Commandments each and every day. H/S also went as far as to say that if h/s could keep the ten commandments, then we are able to keep all ten commandments also. I just never ran into a person that claimed to be sinless.

Is it possible to keep all ten commandments? Is it possible to gain the necessary Spiritual transformation necessary?

Gods Blessings,

Al

Hello,

You asked,




We fulfill the wholoe law imn Christ, and as we walk in lovare in a perfect heart, we need to have perfected our faith our walk our bodies one day but we establish the law when we are in Christ.

In Christ Bruce

I may do another post on the doctrine of "perfection" God willing.

Very good post Truth-no-lies, I would like to add that many have a hard time discerning between the old and new covenants. The old contract (covenant) is no longer an issue because Jesus fulfilled it completely and satisfied Father and the new contract (covenant) which is life in Christ, all the blessings of that old contract are shared with us along with the better blessing of the new contract. Everything concerning the old covenant is filed away now with a stamp that says "paid in full", "complete", "satisfied". Now no one can enter into the old agreement because Father no longer offers it, He found fault in it and has now offered a new and better contract.

Hebrews chapter 8
1 Here is the main point: Our High Priest sat down in the place of highest honor in heaven, at God’s right hand. 2 There he ministers in the sacred tent, the true place of worship that was built by the Lord and not by human hands.
3 And since every high priest is required to offer gifts and sacrifices, our High Priest must make an offering, too. 4 If he were here on earth, he would not even be a priest, since there already are priests who offer the gifts required by the law of Moses. 5 They serve in a place of worship that is only a copy, a shadow of the real one in heaven. For when Moses was getting ready to build the Tabernacle, God gave him this warning: “Be sure that you make everything according to the design I have shown you here on the mountain.”* 6 But our High Priest has been given a ministry that is far superior to the ministry of those who serve under the old laws, for he is the one who guarantees for us a better covenant with God, based on better promises.
7 If the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second covenant to replace it. 8 But God himself found fault with the old one when he said:
“The day will come, says the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel and Judah.
9  This covenant will not be like the one
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
and led them out of the land of Egypt.
They did not remain faithful to my covenant,
so I turned my back on them, says the Lord.
10  But this is the new covenant I will make
with the people of Israel on that day, says the Lord:
I will put my laws in their minds
so they will understand them,
and I will write them on their hearts
so they will obey them.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11  And they will not need to teach their neighbors,
nor will they need to teach their family,
saying, ‘You should know the Lord.’
For everyone, from the least to the greatest,
will already know me.
12  And I will forgive their wrongdoings,
and I will never again remember their sins.”*
13 When God speaks of a new covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and ready to be put aside.

Hello all,

There are a few more things that I want to say in this topic, I have been seeking the Lord on how to express these truths.

When a person tries to keep the Old Testament law or is "of the works of the law" (Gal. 3:10), they are in an outward attempt, following and outard letter in the flesh to be righteous and merit salvation, without the Spirit of God, they are trying to follow a way of righteousness which no man can keep. No man can "fullfill the law" this way.

Paul writes of these things and says,

"Tell me ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the w? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by the bondmaid, the other by the freewoman. ...the one from mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar...But Jerusalem which is above is the mother of us all...Now we, brethren, as Issac was, are the children of promise...Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shanot be heir with the son of the freewoman."(Galatians 4:21-31)


Now those in the Old Testament were said to be "under the law", but if they had faith they were not walking in the flesh and sin even then, but they were in trueghteousness, For "The law is not of faith..." (Gal. 3:),, (I hope to talk about Old testament salvation at a later time Gal. 3:16, 29, 4:1-3,25, 28 etc). But they still had carnal ordinaces imposed upon them in the outward until the time of reformation. This was the Old Covenant. But God has given us a New Covenant and taken away the Old.

But when a person is in the Spirit, they are no longer "in an out ward attempt to keep the law, though they are not without law to God. For they walk in the law of the Spirit, LOVE. Their faith now works by love, not by fleshy human righteousness. Love motivates them.

But many try to add the mere outward conformity to law to thier faith. Christians often make this mistake, just as the Galatians did. They seek to add outward works to make them righteous. But this can never happen, for no flesh (or fleshy works) can stand before God. This is a common mistake, for so many when they are saved, may think, I have to do something now. They are partially ght, but what THEY have to DO is walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh, then the works of fiath are done and they are working an expression of the love that flows from within. But, when a person walks in the flesh they will feel a burden of the flesh upon them and the Gods command will be grievous. This is a test for all of us here, if when we do good works we have no love in doing it or no joy, then we need to examine our hearts and our motives. But when we walk in love, joy, peace etc. we do not have the flesh directing us, for the flesh has been crucified. And we seek no glory to our flesh, but all glory to God. We praise God for the work he has done in us.

Believers can be brought into the bondage of being "under the law" in many ways. They may read an Old Testament verse that speaks of some law that they are taught they must keep. Then they try to keep this law under the banner of "being obedient to God". Yet the true obedience is the "Obedience of faith", and this faith works by love in the leading of the Spirit, not self righteousness. Or they may even read a New Testament command and try to keep it in their flesh with no understanding or joy.


When Paul ministered to others he said he was not a minister of the letter, [or an outward form for men to follow to merit righteousness], but he was a minister of the Spirit [for when men walk in the spirit through faith they have life]. Even when reading the New Testament, which has many commands of the Spirit and directions, we must live in the spirit of that command not the letter only.

For example, if Paul directed the brethren (throught the guidence of the Spirit), to "bear one anothers burdens", no man can do this unless they are truly in the Spirit and the voice of the Spirit is stirring them inwardly to love their brethren. Though a man can pretend to do this in the flesh and to the oputward observer it may seem as though they are helping their brethren and in love. But God searches the heart, and we must examine our heart motives.

Some may say, why do we need to have someone write what the Spirit is saying to us when we have the spirit in us already as believers? One answer that I have for this, is that we as believers are often bewitiched by evil teachings and fleshy doctrines of devils and tempted away in our own flesh. We are in a war. And there are many believers who are weak in their faith and need help constantly. God works through every member in the body and this is his way to help them.

Christ is the head and will supply to every part as they let him. That is why we need to gather in our meetings around Christ and wait on him. Enough gathering around men and fleshy man made righteousness and works of men. We need to worship God in Spirit and in truth.

So when Paul, Peter John and others wrote many things to the churches, they were conveying the truth of the Spirit to others, which only those who are in the spirit can recieve. Only those with spiritual ears can hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches. The natural man cannot recieve them neither can he know them. The natural man can only read the Holy scriptures and look at them as a outward form of self righteous direction. This may be why so many are bound up in confusion and dead works in religious groups. they are eitherot in the Spirit , or they have not been taught to wait on the Lord, or they are pushing ahead in their flesh to make a name for themselves and earn salvation.

Some of the things we read in the New testament are also for instruction, for example, we read of things from the Old Testament which are examples for us of how God works and his LIFE works through others. We also read of character and other things are related to confronting false teachings that have crept in among believers. Some writings deal with showing us what is the fruit of a good tree and a bad tree. the believers can see and examine if thee bringing forth the fruit of a bad tree or a good one.

But in closing, I pray that we all would learn to move in the Spirit of love and truth and God's righteousness. This is how we fulfill the law.

In Christ Bruce

This is very very true Bruce, everything you say is very true.

Let me first say, that I agree in essence with what your are saying, however, I think that the expression "The ten commandments are done away" is by itself a little misleading (not intentional) and contradictory to other things you said.

For example when you say that this does not mean we can break the law and sin.... if for example we lie or steal...." That in effect means that the law which says not to steal is still around. So can we say it has been done away. But something was done away, what was it?

We still have to deal with the text in 2 Cor 2.
"But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away."
The thing that was to be done away was not what was engraved in stone, but the glory on Moses face.
That does not however explain what is meant by the "ministration of death, written and engraved in stones."
First of all, we all agree that we are saved by grace, not by observing the law (Rom 3:28). But just 3 verses later, Paul asks, "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Ro 3:31. We must conclude with Paul, that no matter what it means to be "under grace and not under the law," it certainly does not mean that the law has been nullified or done away with.

So how did the law become a minsitry of death?
When Moses went and told the people all the Lord’s words and laws, they responded with one voice, “Everything the Lord has said we will do.” Ex 24:3.
That was not the right answer.
They had already broken the law.
God also gave the the plans for the sanctuary. They should have gone to the sanctuary to receive forgiveness. Instead, the entered a covenant of works. Keep the law in order to be saved. And that brought death because no sinful fallen man can keep the law.
That is why Hebrews 8, after showing the futility of the sacrifices to save from sin it says:
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said: “The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 9 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. 10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. Heb 8:7-10.

The problem with that first covenant was with the people.
So God promised a new covenant, and in the new covenant he would write his laws in the hearts.
The sacrifice for this new covenant was to be with the blood of Christ!
But the key here is that the same law that was written in stone, is now written on the heart, by the Spirit.
It has always been a sin to break the ten commandments, as you rightly pointed out.
But, not quite accurate to say they were done away.
James even said,
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker, Jas 2:10-11.

What was done away?
The law as a means of salvation was done away with.
There was nothing wrong with the law, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good, Ro 7:12.
The problem is us.
We need a Saviour. The Lord kept all of the commands, and wants to give us his righteousness, his obedience, as a free gift by grace through faith.
Now we work our our own salvation with fear and trembling, because it is God who works in us to do his good will. Christians do attempt to follow the ten commandments, not in order to be saved, but because we have been saved by Grace through faith and obedience is an outward expression of that love and faith we have for God.
No matter how much a man might say the loves his wife. If he is out chasing women every night, he does not love his wife. No matter how much we may claim to love God and be saved, if we refuse to obey him, can we claim his forgiveness? That does not mean we are perfect and never sin, we do sin, but when a Christian sins, he cries out with Paul, "What a wretched man I am, who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through our Lord Jesus Christ, (Rom 7:24, 25) and "there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus!"
So in essence I agree, I would just hate to give anyone the impression that the 10 commandants no longer exist. Not that you did in your text, but just a little uneasy about the title.
God Bless
3am

Hello 3am,

God bless and thank you for your honest impression.

I don't believe that the ten commandements do not exist, but when I echo Pauls words that they are "abolished" and "done away" and a "ministration of condemnation", etc. I am trying to show that no man can be made righteous by the law. The law will kill him in his sin and iniquity. It still has a use for exposing sin and showing men where they are not. In this way, it is a ministration of condemnation. And for the believer he is not seekinmg to establich his own righteousness by following the Ten Commandements, for he is in the fulfilment of the law and in Gods righteousness in Christ. So the law is abolished as a means of righteousness for him and is done away to those who abide in the fullfilment of law, LOVE.


I think of it this way. When a man has an empty space inside and is shut up , hardened from God. He will only be able to stumble around in the dark and never be complete. But when he lets the Light of Gods love in and truth, he feels the warmth of that love and his life is changed. He now has that emptiness filled by Gods Love shed abroad in his heart. What law is there against this , he is in the power of the law of the Spirit of life. He is complete, and when Christ is with him and in him he knows that he has found his purpose and is where he should be in the universe. And he is being directed by God in truth as he obeys God through this spiritual hearing. No law outwardly is needed. But when he hardens himself turns from the light of God he will go into darkness and bring himself under the condemnation of the law again.

The law is not made for a righteous man [believers in christ who abide in the love and truth of the Spirit}, but it is made for the ungodly and sinners. So to the believer, the law is as paul said, "abolished", and "done away". Thsi includes all the ten commandements even the SABBATH day. They are all fulfilled in Christ love and rest in him.

Imagine going to a believer who walks in the power of the Spirit and in the love of God which is shed abroad in his heart and saying, "don't steal now, don't kill, don't have other Gods etc". He is not walking in a outward self righteous attempt to be made righteous in his flesh,and put God in his debt, his old man is dead with Christ. And as he abides in Christ he has victory over the world flesh and the devil, to the degree of his faith and understanding and walk.

In Christ light,

Bruce
[/quote]

There are 9 commandments where the church may be mistaken when it says there are 10.
The first one is an introduction like there was in other contacts with Moses and Abraham as well.
It's like "hello, this is God speaking" (so to speak). A bit like one would introduce himself during a phone conversation, but of course in a much holier manner.

There is no biblical reason to see the 9 commandments as more important than the other ones. They occur elsewhere in a different order, and amongst other laws which christians think are only for the old testamentic Jews and then "fulfilled" (not necessary anymore).
The 10 words on the tablets are not these commandments, but some other rules about religious practice.
That's in how far the biblical commandments are numbered 10. It's not the same.

The 2 most important commandments are to love God and thy neighbour. That's the hierarchy Jesus gives to them. In case there would be complex situations of "law against law" one should choose for the deepest or most fundamental ones. One of these laws isn't even mentioned, the other one only implied, in the 10 commandments.

So draw your own conclusions about what's abolished or "done away with". It's the greatest part of the set of laws once given to the Jews. Hundreds and hundreds of them. With no apparent biblical reason for that.
There is also this strange effect (no explanation either) that churches may condemn homosexuality based on the bible, but at the same time neglect laws like kosher or the Jewish religious feasts which are part of that same set of "Jewish-only" laws.

Greets, Divinespark

Hello Divinespark'

You said,

"...So draw your own conclusions about what's abolished or "done away with". It's the greatest part of the set of laws once given to the Jews. Hundreds and hundreds of them...."

The verses that I quoted about the ten commandements being done away and abolished are exactly what Paul said in 2 Corinthians, they are not my conclusions, he said,

"But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones [refering to the ten commandements given by God to Moses, not just the ceremonial law or the written Old Testament only], was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; [again we see that this speaks of the ten commandments given in stone by Moses] which glory was to be done away.[pause at these words, DONE AWAY, and consider carefully what he is saying]...or the ministration of condemnation be glory,[remember that "by the law is the knowledge of sin, and the law is as a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ to be justified by faith, but after the faith is come we are NO LONGER under the schoolmaster] much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory...For if that which is done away [speaking again in context of the ten commandements given by Moses in the two tables of stone] was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious...And not as Moses which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished. But their minds were blinded: for until this same day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament, which veil is done away in Christ. [again reminding us exactly what he is talking about, namely the ten commandements and that they are abolished to the one who takes off the veil in the heart]."

Ok, hope that helps

In Christ

Bruce

Jesus came not to abolish the 10 Commandments but to fulfill them.

Right now those who believe onto Christ, we are saved and our righteousness is of Him and by faith.

Christ fulfilled all the law for us and inputted His righteousness onto us.

It is like... you want to go to Super Bowl but you need to pay for the Super Bowl tickets. Then a stranger and a good person came up to you and give you a Super Bowl VIP box ticket for free. So now you no longer think about paying for the ticket but you think about going to the game and enjoying it.

If Christ have not come and died for our sins, then we are still under the ministry of death because it can only condemn us and not save us. Any of us, other than Christ can meet the requirements of the 10C? The good news is that Christ has came, He has fulfilled all the requirements of the 10C and give us that status of having fulfilled it. =) Praise God!

Shalom.

Its because :Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (so why try?)
Gal 2:17 But if, while we sought to be justified in Christ, we ourselves also were found sinners, is Christ a minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build up again those things which I destroyed, I prove myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law died unto the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought.

I am dead, Christ now lives in me. He is willing in me to walk right before Him. In fact it is by HIS strength that I live and walk and have my being. I cannot do anything in my own strength to please Him. My best works are like filthy rags...................but when I walk after the Spirit, by listening to that small still voice or feeling in my gut, (heart) I will not fulfill the desires of the flesh and I will walk in His power and in Him the law is fulfilled.

How can I not live righteously if I allow Christ to do the living through me?


Our only problem is the lack of realizing that we are in fact dead, for we were crucified with Him. Just as surely as He died on that cross, we also did (our old man, our lusts and wants)

C