Stephen:
QUOTE
The first "fruits" of Revelation 7 and 14 are the first converts of ethnic national Israel
You couldn't have said it better. I totally agree. But your timing is way off.
QUOTE
They are seen led by the Lord Himself and will begin their witness from Jerusalem
If you literally interpret, and don't spiritualize, you will see that it has already happened. "First" means
first, regardless of any ethnic background. Your dispensationalist mentors saw Israel as Israel, Gentiles as Gentiles, and the Church as the Church. But in the beginning the Church was made up entirely of national Israel. The Jews were the charter members of the Church, and they were the ones who took the Gospel of Salvation to the world, and always to the Jew first. Along the way they picked up Gentiles as well.
QUOTE
These will be sealed for protection at the beginning of the tribulation period and they are all national Israelites, 12,000 from each tribe, .... and not the church of today
Again I agree. But the Bible is not specific as to whether or not the 144000 were sealed for their protection. That is an addition based on the presumption that all this happens during a future "Tribulation."
The 144000 may be merely representative of all Israel saved during the forty some odd years between Pentecost and the Roman holocaust. While those years began under severe persecution, eventually relative peace prevailed (the Pax Romana). Those were the years that the Gospel of salvation was preached in all the world (the known world, of course). Revelation 7:1-8 pictures this.
During those years there was the time of enduring to the end. All Jews heard the Gospel, and could choose to return to the Lord or not (remember, they all had been concluded in unbelief, and had to receive Christ (be "born again"), and even after that, had to endure to the end (prove their faith in Christ, and not slip back into the old Mosaic ways) to have their salvation confirmed. That was the time of testing, the years of tribulation for the Jews.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days, God gave signs of impending doom, the sun and moon darkened, the stars falling, and so forth. Study the Scriptures and you will see that this usually happened before certain God ordained judgements. The "powers that are in heaven shall be shaken," I am certain, refers to the war between Michael and Satan, which took place at that time. Follow the sequence of these events, and you will see that they are not future. It all happened.
Mark 13:
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Preterist's had a foggy picture of what happened. But where they went wrong was thinking that somehow this has already happened to the whole world, and their confusion led to more confusion. All of this happened to the Jewish world. The years of trial, then the casting out of Satan, then the appearance of the Lord, the rapture of the believing remnant of Israel, then the resurrection of Old Testament Jews (verse 27 above), and the severe judgment on unbelieving Israel (the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome).
I'm not sure of the actual sequence of these events, but if Bible scholars would get off their dispensational duffs, they could figure it out.
By the way, there is not much given in the Bible that covers
our coming end times, when Satan will be released from the
Bottomless Pit for a while. There will be great chaos, but true believers left on the earth will be sealed for protection during that time. Rev. 9:4
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Patrick