I have stated that God has provided a way to escape the GT and to be alive at the second coming. I have provided scripture to prove my statements, and so far it seems that everyone is resisting the idea.

I have a question for you all: Is it not possible that God has provided a way to physically escape the coming GT and how do you think He would go about doing it?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
http://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000

Where do you find ONE SINGLE BIBLICAL REFERENCE to 'The Great Tribulation?' It is true that some modern translation ADD the article 'the' to Jesus' words 'then there will be great tribulation (simply 'gobs of trouble'....), but NOWHERE in the real Bible is there any talk of 'The' great tribulation!

A man-made doctrine invented out of whole cloth!

I will keep the from the Hour of trial that is coming upon the whole earth [Revelation 3:10] Come out of her my people [Revelation 18:4] And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus [Revelation 20:4]

There is only one guaranteed way out for protection. Unless one is of the 144,000 Israelites sealed [Revelation 7:1] of the believing remnant of national Israel who flee via the rift valley when the Mount of Olives splits and are protected in the Jordanian wilderness for the second 1,260 days [Zechariah 14:4, Revelation 12:6,14] or one of the Lord's two prophets [Revelation 11:5] ...... there is no other guarantee of protection on the earth during the tribulation recorded in scripture.

guy...not to change the subject but l went to your web page and only just barely started to read and must come back and make this comment.... and l guess it would be a question too.

Do you think the the term "Just as in the days of Noah" would include Enoch? Because if so then Enoch was caught away but God did help those remaining...the called out ones to travel protected through the siege of waters...The rest perished.

So there would be three groups

1) those caught away represented by Enoch

2) those protected and carried through ...144,000 and maybe some who receive and believe

3) and those who perish....

Just a thought...

"NOWHERE in the real Bible is there any talk of 'The' great tribulation!"

There is one in Matthew 24. The Lord said it ..... look for it. He is refering to the entire tribulation period .... not just part of it. It will all be "great" ..... His "hour" [time] of trial. Post-tribulational and pre-wrath theory has invented the idea that there are degrees of the tribulation in order to place "great" tribulation at the mid point or the end of the period. They then can move resurrections and translations to the mid point or the end of the period. They justify this because the Lord makes the comment after He discusses the abomination of desolation which will be present at the mid point of the 70th week. His comment is a general statement about the entire period and not positional.

The Lord said that no one can know the time [date] of His intervention to trigger His hour of trial. The time one can not know is His action to take "out" His Church .... those who enter the tribulation period will be able to calculate the time [date] that can be known by the bench marks of the period written in scripture. There is a time one cannot know and a time one will be able to know ..... they are not the same date. These two dates will be separated by His hour of great tribulation.

He says for "then" shall be great tribulation and He is speaking of His entire hour [time] of trial .... particularly for the nation of Israel. Matthew 24 is a focused passage directed to the generation of national Israel that will be living at the time. This passage is not directed to the Body of Christ, but there are other passages which are. He will keep the living believers and members of this group [both Israelite and Gentile without regard for national identity] from His wrath and judgments of His hour of trial as He has promised. Both the dead in Christ and the living believers at the time will be made immortal together at the same time just preceding the beginning of the "great" tribulation that is coming upon Israel and the nations.

It's always what l've thought in relation to not knowing the day or hour and the fact that one would be able to calculate from the mid point. Also this refers to my question about how can we know the difference between tribulation, chastisement and great tribulation...and Stephen you are interpreting it to say it begins with an unbelievably huge earthquake...

The Lord's hour of trial "great tribulation" will be directed at an "unbelieving" world of humans. The believer is not appointed to His actions that will take place. Only those who enter the tribulation period and turn to the Lord will be trapped in His judgments. It is all a matter of timing because He will not adjust His schedule as planned for the start of His hour of trial. He knows when it will begin. The Lord hates unbelief and rejecting the truth about Him more than anything, especially when no human really has a valid excuse for ignoring or rejecting Him. No human has an excuse for not recognizing this truth which should be evident to all by just observation of the earth and universe if nothing else. One also knows of one's mortality and a need for salvation .... but many reject. There is a difference between man's inhumanity to man (persecution for what ever reason) and the ordinary sufferings of this life ..... and the wrath of the Lord. A huge difference. Those who enter His time of trial will find this out. It will be a fearful thing to fall directly into the hands of an angry God ..... astonishing.

The believer who lives just before is not appointed to experience this kind of wrath. Those who enter the period will all be unbelievers at first. Some will turn, but most will not repent. He will not withdraw His offer of salvation during the period, but most will reject it. Billions of humans will be killed in unbelief and lost forever during His hour of trial and by their own choice ..... just like in the flood. The truth will be known at the time, but most will reject it. Their prevailing attitude is summarized in Revelation 6:15.

There is no indication of the size of the beginning quake and how wide spread it will be. I would have to speculate by knowing other vectors from Jerusalem that are docummented in scripture for other events of the period. Based upon this I would say western [from the Middle East], possibly including western Europe and the North and South American continents. I do not know this for certain.

I agree that there will be a Great Tribulation for, as you pointed out, our Lord said it. But....it isn't "His hour," it isn't the time of Christ. The "great" tribulation is the time of Satan. That is when he is on earth pretending to be Christ. The tribulation won't be a time of mass murder, multilation, etc but a time of great deceit...."such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." [Matt.24:21]


But.....he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. [Matt.24:13] The time of Christ, His hour, the hour of His wrath comes after the time of Satan:


Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30.And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.





My understanding of scripture is as given above..........he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. We must endure until His 2nd Advent...not take the mark of the beast (believe Satan's lies) and we will be saved.


...........Whirlwind

Hi Miki,

No, I do not think that "Just as in the days of Noah" would include Enoch. Noah entered the ark 662 years after Enoch was translated.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
http://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000

The Lord's hour of trial is the tribulation period. Satan will be part of it, but it is the Lord who will permit the strong delusion for the purpose of judging those who will not believe the truth about Him. Read 2Thessalonians chapter 2. It is the Lord who will also draw the beast and the 10 other kings to destroy MBG's "great city" ..... a hugh disaster with worldwide effects. It is the Lord who does all of the judging .....satan will only be His dupe. The unbelieving world refuses the Lord Jesus Christ, so He will give them satan. Read Revelation's account of the unfolding judgments and notice that they all come from the Lord Himself. All of them come from heaven and are instigated by and through His angels upon the earth. He will control the entire tribulation period of His wrath before He appears to the world at the end. This period is the first part of the "Day of the Lord" that the O.T. prophets recorded in their visions. The Lord Jesus Christ will be the one judging ..... it is His hour of trial that He will bring. Read Revelation 6:16. The wrath of the Lamb is the wrath of the Lamb.

To me, there is first a tribulation, a great tribulation, and then it will be the wrath of God....two different events. I agree in that the Lord not only permits strong delusion but He sends it.


11 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12.That they might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


What is that "strong delusion?" It is Satan in the guise of Christ. He is the lie and those that believe he is our Saviour, "believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" are damned. God sends, or allows, that delusion as He sent us a letter that tells us what will happen. He gives us the truth.....Christ comes after Satan, we must wait for Him.






I'm not certain what you mean. Are you saying the beast and 10 kings destroy Mystery Babylon?


Mystery Babylon, I believe, is religion. All the false doctrine, traditions and religions of the world. All religion that isn't God's truth....that is the "mother of harlots and abominations of the earth."





I agree with everything but the tribulation period being His wrath. I disagree because of :


Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days........
30.And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven........


He doesn't arrive until after the tribulation of Satan.






Yes, His wrath is poured out.....which probably won't take 15 minutes. All are changed into spirit bodies and He judges. He doesn't judge on who is going to the lake of fire but on where they spend the millennium. God judges on the lake of fire at the end of the millennium....the final judgment.


...........Whirlwind

"I'm not certain what you mean. Are you saying the beast and 10 kings destroy Mystery Babylon?"

Read Revelation 17 and 18 and you will find this event and also the Lord's involvement. You also need to read 14, 16, and 19 for the same. The great city of MBG will be destroyed and the description of 18 is not a false religion ..... much more. I also get the impression that you are not well versed in the book of the Lord's revelation about the tribulation period. He is involved from the get go. Where did you ever get the idea that He will not show up until the end of it? I know, but you need to think about if you want correct understanding.

I do understand that He is involved in the tribulation. It is just that I consider it the time Satan is here deceiving Christians, not the time of God's wrath. It is a time of testing for us.


Christ comes to judge and make war at the end of the tribulation. God comes at the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the millennium. [Rev.20:11] If what you are referring to, the Trinity, as to the times when Christ and/or God will be here....I can only go by what is written. Christ at the millennium, God at the eternity. If you can elaborate on that I would be open to your teaching.


In reading Rev. 17 & 18 I still believe that the Great Whore of Babylon is false religion. Chapter 18 went farther, as you suggested it would, into detail. It includes earthly leaders, religious and political so has to also encompass the "first beast" which is the one world system. Do you not believe that she is composed of religion and politics? She rules the world.


........Whirlwind

The Lord will be involved in the entire framework of His hour [time] of trial. All of it and not just at the end of it. He is the Lord from the beginning and all things were created for Him and by Him. He is coming to take vengence upon those who refuse to believe the truth about Him ..... in many ways; and not just at Armageddon.

The "great city" part of MBG described is much more than just false religion. In fact, she is more commercial, financial, and materialistic. Her position is global and when the "great city" part of her is destroyed, the entire world of business and commerce will be affected ..... big time. All of the infastructure that humans rely upon will come crashing down in one day. "Woman" [Babylon - Babel] is a symbolic term used to ID human transgression against the Lord. The concept and organization of the "city" was developed shortly after the flood and for the purpose of moving away from the Lord and His providence and control. This organization of the nucleus of human self direction (self government) is a thing the Lord's hates and He is going to break the back of this human intransigence against Him. Any kind of unbelief including pseudo-Christianity in many forms, Islam, Judiasm, atheisam, etc. is only a part of the many ways of human seperation form the Lord.

He will seek to destroy all human self government and rule over the earth at the time of the end. He will bring down all of the nations and their cities which will have grown to enormous proportion with connected interrelationships at the time of the end. The "great city" will be the center of trade and commerce at the time. This great city will be His first target at the beginning of the tribulation period and He will use satan's beast and followers to destroy it in one day.

She, the "woman" is the adultrous world of unbelief and intransigence against the Lord. And no I do not believe that she is the RCC alone as traditional theology has taught. This concept is far too limiting and this fact should be obvious to anyone. "She" rules the world primarily by business, commerce and financial wealth as described in Revelation 18.

Neither do I believe that the current Body of Chriat is headed for the Lord's hour of trial against unbelief. This action would make no sense. The believer does not need to be subjected to the Lord's wrath against unbelief with some sort of purification process. There will be those who turn to Him during the period, but most will be martyred for their faith by beheading. It is all a matter of timing. He will start His hour of trial regardless of the status of one's position and relationship with Him ..... and He will start with no warning given. When the fullness of the Gentiles is added to His Church, He will then begin His wrath and judgements against an unbelieving world ..... not those who believe just before.

Believers are not appointed to His wrath. Neither does one need to be purified by it. This concept is totally off course and I would suggest that it is coming from questionable sources ..... for deceptive reasons. Many fundamental "cultish" type organizations and their leaders are teaching these things today and all seem to have this common element included. One needs to look under the covers of this falsehood.

It is used in Revelation 7:14 in the Greek text as well, where the 144000 are sealed and come out of the great tribulation as a multitude which cannot be counted. This is a promise that is fulfilled in Revelation 14 when they are on Mt. Zion (church, Heb 12:22) with the Lamb. That leaves no room for a pretrib rapture.
Unfortunately pretribbers have commandeered the words "Great Tribulation" for something they believe happens after the rapture.
3am

The reason it makes no sense to some is because they cannot see the larger picture of the Bible which climaxes in Revelation. A picture of God's government being vindicated in the eyes of the universe who finally sings out "Just and true are your words, Lord God Almighty!" God's people, true believers are captive to the forces of Satan, climaxing in Babylonian captivity, and the plagues are God's means of delivering them. Just as he delivered Israel from Egypt by means of the plagues, so again in the future he will deliver his Spiritual Israel from Spiritual Babylonian captivity by means of the plagues. Even Luther saw this hundreds of years ago. That is the purpose of the plagues or the great tribulation. They set God's people free!! They are the means by which God delivers us.!!! Dispensationalism focus only on the negative things, not the positive. That Action makes lots of sense when you see the big picture. That is easy to miss if all you are concerned about is land and territory and maps and stuff.

Secondly some seem to have a terrible time understanding that God can protect his people from the awful plagues of the tribulation without taking them out of the world. That is what the sealing is all about. God's people are present, but will not be "subjected to the Lord's wrath against unbelief." Some cannot tell the difference between protecting from God's wrath and subjecting to God's wrath. God is Able!!!! And he

So the surprising answer to the original question:
By sealing his own before the Great Tribulation and delivering them by means of the 7 last plagues!

3am

Thank you for your reply Stephen. I agree that He will be in control during the entire tribulation but He allows Satan that time to deceive. As the scripture pointed out, Christ comes after "that tribulation." [Matthew 24:29]





Again, I agree. Someone told me Satan works best from four "dynasties." They are Finance, Education, Politics and Religion. He reaches and controls people through those outlets. Through those, as you said, he moves people away from the Lord. Just look at our politics today, just look at our education system today, just look at the hold finance has on families with the interest they charge.....and just look at religion!





Again, I agree. When He arrives at His 2nd. Advent, "every knee will bow." He will be King of Kings and Lord of Lords....government as we know it will be over. What I disagree with you on is that you make it seem that it is far in the future....when "cities will have grown to enormous proportion...."


From my understanding, what we are talking about is the "first beast" that rises out of the sea. [Rev.13:1] Has she not already risen? It will take very little for this one-worldism to begin....we already have the UN, we already have Americans ready to give our power to them, we already have elected officials ready to abandon Israel. It just doesn't seem long in the future to me.





I'm glad you don't think the RCC is that beast or woman. It seems every religion pokes their finger in the eye of all other religions.





Here...we disagree, on several points. The current "body of Christ" is what Satan is targeting. He is coming after Christians.


Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Satan, will target us....believers in God and Christ. It isn't a "purification process" nor is God after "unbelievers" but it is to see who has read His letter to us. If we have then we know that Satan comes first pretending to be Christ and we will not follow the fake. We will wait for the true Christ. We will not take the mark of the beast. Stephen....no one will be martyred with beheading. All of that is spiritual tribulation, not physical [Luke 21:18]. Satan can't hurt anyone physically as he will be pretending to be Christ.


Not only does Father tell us in Luke 21:18 that we won't be harmed but He also tells us that in the end of days:


Luke 10:18 And He said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven,

19.Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.


During the time of Satan's tribulation we have been given power to fight him and we will not be harmed. That power is His Word, to know who comes first. No one will be martyred.


Some will turn to Him because of the testimony of His elect when they are brought before Satan in Jerusalem. The Holy Spirit will speak through them and those that are supposed to hear and see....will.


The scripture about the "fullness of the Gentiles," doesn't mean until the proper number of them has been added to the body of Christ. What it is saying is that when God has decided their time is up, that they have trodden down Jerusalem long enough....the end will come. [Luke 21:24]





Believers are not appointed to His wrath....I agree. However, if a "believer" follows Satan, even if it is unknowingly....he has taken the mark of the beast. He is no longer a believer in the true Christ but in the fake. The wrath of God is for those that take the mark. [Revelation 14:9-10]


...........Whirlwind

That is very interesting. I never considered the plagues as part of His "delivering them." I'll study it more.


........Whirlwind

WW,

The woman and the beast are two different entities. The beast from the abyss is satan's christ ..... antichrist, the prince that shall come. He is a fallen angelic. His manifestation will be in the little horn, human king of the north located in the Middle East. This part of the satanic triad is the man of lawlessness. He will arise out of the "sea" of the inhabitants of the Middle East that surround Israel.

The woman is symbolic of lost humanity. She has a history and she will have a "great city" part at the time of the end. It will be satan's beast and 10 other human kings who will destroy her great city part in one hour on one day at the time of the end. The other woman in chapter 12 is Israel. She has been intransigent as well, but she will have a believing remnant part at the time of the end. All of the symbolism of chapter 12 points to Israel and satan's ambitions to destroy the nation at the time of the end.

The Body of Christ will be immortalized just before the Lord's hour of trial (the tribulation period against an unbelieving world) begins. The Body of Christ is not appointed to His wrath against unbelief. These are seen in heaven (the immortal state of existence) several times in Revelation as the judgment events unfold upon the earth. Their presence as seen in heaven begins in chapter 4 before the actual judgments begin on the earth starting in chapter 8. They are the 24 elders and the great multitude.

There are two beasts. The first arises from the sea, "having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. [Rev.13:1]


So....she/he arises from the people of the world (the sea) and has to do with political power as the beast has ten horns (power) and ten crowns (political power/rulers). Upon the heads of those rulers is blasphemy:


Blasphemy - #988 blasphemia; from 989; vilification, (espec. against God): - blasphemy, evil speaking, railing.


So, if the rulers are evil, speaking against God, which could mean not speaking the truth of God, and they control the world (seven heads may mean the seven continents) = one world power and all of it against God. It could mean they are against Him openly or could mean deceitfully, as they are supporting the fake. We know this first beast is controlled by Satan.


Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"


No country can "make war" with a one world system. They are all part of the system. So, the world is worshipping not only the dragon (Satan) but also the beast....his one world system. Would you do that? Of course not so it has to be done deceitfully. They won't realize it is part of Satan.


The 2nd beast is the anti-christ (instead of christ,) which is just a role Satan plays while on earth. He will be pretending he is our Saviour:


Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.


This 2nd beast comes out of the earth. He will look like the Lamb and have power but he is the dragon! He is a "religious beast" - Satan in disguise.


Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.


Satan is kicked out of heaven by Michael and cast to earth [Rev.12:13]. He will come out of that bottomless pit, "another beast coming up out of the earth." I don't think it is a coincidence that the Great Imam is supposed to come out of a well located in a mosque in Iran.....the bottomless pit!


From those above scriptures it seems to me that Mystery Babylon is that one world system led by Satan and his false religion.





Here we greatly disagree. Stephen there is too much scripture that tells us we will be here during Satan's tribulation and the wrath of God. His wrath isn't for us if we don't take the mark but we will be here. That is the reason we put on the gospel armor. To stand and fight....otherwise, why not just love God? Why study His Word if He is going to wisk us away?


.........Whirlwind

3am.....I have been thinking about your post. My understanding of being "sealed" is to know His truth about end times....that Satan comes first and we will go through (and endure) the tribulation. Meaning, we will not fall for his deceit, we will not believe he is our Saviour but will wait for the true Christ.


This morning I came across scripture that I feel pertains to the time we are discussing:


Psalms 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the MOST HIGH Shall abide under the shadow of THE ALMIGHTY.

2.I will say of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortess; My God; in Him will I trust.

7.A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; But it shall not come nigh thee.

10.There shall no evil befall thee, Neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

11.For He shall give His angels charge over thee, To keep thee in all thy ways (Satan changed this scripture in Matthew 4:6 and omitted "in all thy ways" and added "at any time" - he twists the truth)

12.They shall bear thee up in their hands, Lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

13.Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: The young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet. (Satan omitted that verse in Matthew because it refers to his own head being crushed "Gen.3:15")


That Psalm tells us that He is our refuge, He will protect us from the plagues. Verse 7 is very interesting to me. When it says "a thousand shall fall" does it mean physically or is it that they fall spiritually to the anti-christ?


.......Whirlwind

I think you are right on.
As for whether it is phyically or spiritually, I believe both.
Notice verse 10, no evil and no plague. As long as we find our refuge in Jesus and stay there, we cannot fall away even though thousands do. As long as we stay in Him, during the time of the tribulation, the plagues will not come near us. But we will see the punishment of the wicked.
8 You will only observe with your eyes
and see the punishment of the wicked.

As for God's seal or mark. compare with Deut 6:6-8 and Exodus 13:9 concerning observing God's law.
Something to think about.
3am

Thank you for pointing out the "no evil no plague"....I agree, that must mean both spiritually and physically.


So...you are saying that being "sealed" is more than just knowing the truth of end times. It is living in His Word....observing God's law. It is something to think about.


We all try to live our lives doing that but many today don't believe some of those laws apply to them (food laws and worship on the Sabbath)....they believe they were nailed to the cross with Christ. May I ask what you believe?


...........Whirlwind

The time of the 'gobs of trouble' (a perfectly legitimate translation of Jesus' words in the Greek text), occured A.D. 67-70, when people saw "Jerusalem compassed about with armies" JUST AS JESUS SAID!

It is so clear, Boggles my mind that the ones who think they see fulfillment of prophecy in the gathering of Israel into the land cannot see AD 70 in Mat. 24. Josephus and Milman sound like they are quoting Scripture when they describe the scene. But the truth is they cannot, because if AD70 is a fulfillment of prophecy to the nation, then it destroys the entire futuristic view of the 70 weeks.
The disciples asked Jesus about two things, the destruction of Jerusalem and the coming of Jesus as well as the end of the age. In their minds, both events were going to happen at the same time. They did not understand that there would span centuries of time. Even after the resurrection before the ascension, they asked if Jesus was going to set up His kingdom then. So they blurred the two events into one. Jesus carefully answered both questions, giving a sign for the destruction of Jerusalem and temple as well as mixing in signs for the end of the age. So just because it happened in 70AD does not mean there isnt more yet future. The important thing is that Jesus was talking to the church. He used "you" and "your" over and over.
3am

It was a "Mini-me" of the great tribulation
It was indeed a small version of what is coming and we can see how many things were fulfilled that Jesus said would come to pass. But we must not confuse it with the one that is upon us now . But yes, there are parallels, so we can learn.

C

One of the keys to understanding Revelation is to recognize that it quotes or alludes to the OT over 600 times. That means one cannot understand Revelation apart from the OT. God clearly says that His laws are to be on the forehead and hand (Deut 6:6f). I doubt that he is talking about literal tattoos here. In fact, He elsewhere said that obedience to His law is like a sign on the forehead and the hand (Exodus 13:9). On the forehead would be knowing God's truth, on the hand is doing or obeying God's truth. Since Satan's two points of attack in Revelation 12:17 are "those who obey the commandments of God (His Law) and hold to the Testimony of Jesus (the Gospel), the contrast between those who worship God and those who worship the beast becomes obvious by their choice of obedience to God vs. obedience to the beast. I believe that those who tie themselves down to interpreting Revelation literally, are setting themselves up for a huge deception predicted by Jesus in Mat. 7 and 24. On the other hand there is a danger in spiritualizing away everything until there is no firm ground to stand on. In my opinion, the safest course is to let the Bible itself, both Old and New Testament define for you those things that are to be literal and those that are spiritual.

One of the most challenging tasks of Bible study is to determine which of those laws or things in the OT carry over into the New Testament. Most agree that the Sacrificial laws were done away with at the cross, we no longer need to offer animal sacrifices. It is obvious that the ten commandments carry over. The scope of that question is too much to delve into here. But since Satan attacks those who obey God's commandments and since the NT clearly shows that the 10 commandments are still a valid expression of God's love we can start there. Here are a few Texts:

Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law."
Now many will use this to prove that since we are under grace and not under the law, the law has been done away with. However, Paul goes on to say three verses later:
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
This means that Paul does not understand that the law has been done away with.
He believes the Law (ten commandments v7) is "Holy, righteous and good (7:12)."
Therefore, anyone who tries to say the commandments are done away with are twisting Paul's writings.

James goes so far as to say of the ten commandments that:
2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
No wonder we cannot be saved by keeping the law, but only by grace through faith in Jesus, who kept the law for us and gives His righteousness (obedience) to us as a free gift. But faith does not abolish the law (Rom 3:31).

Here is another interesting point:
Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
It is amazing to me, that one who attempts to do away with God's law is hostile to God's law. That is the sinful mind. That is the nature we are to put to death. Yet, many, unaware of this, are attacking God's law and yielding to the sinful nature. I am not saying whether they are saved or lost, that is not my place to judge, only God knows the heart. However, it seems to me a dangerous position to take. This is especially so in light of the fact that the Dragon, Satan, attacks those who obey God's commands (Rev 12:17). Perhaps that is one of the reasons for the resurgence to bring back the focus on the ten commandments, putting them back on the class room walls, in court houses, and even the evangelical community declaring a national "ten commandment day."

One last point, You also asked about the Sabbath which of course is one of the ten commandments.
Heb 4:4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work."
.... 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.
It is important to notice that God Himself rested. How did God rest?
Hint: Exodus 20:11 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.... for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth... but he rested on the seventh day."
There is no question that God gave the Sabbath blessing to Israel as a reminder that he is the creator, the question is, does God's rest remain as a blessing for the Israel of God today? Spiritual Israel, the church? Is it a reminder for us, in this world dominated my the theory of evolution, that we should worship the Creator of the heavens and the earth (Rev 14:7), not the beast who is just a creature (13:8)? Is this a real issue in the book of Revelation? Honoring God and acknowledging His authority as the creator of the heavens and the earth?
More food for thought.
3am

Here is another end times Psalm.

Before you read it answer this:
Are you anointed? (Do you have the Holy Spirit?)

Are you a son of God?
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God.

Are you an overcomer:?

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and he (the believer)that keepeth my (Jesus) works unto the end, to him (believers) will I give authority over the nations: Rev 2:27 and he (The overcomer, the believer,) shall rule them (the nations)with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to shivers; as I also have received of my Father:

Thank you 3am.



......Whirlwind