Will these events both happen on the same day?

"...the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5: 28, 29). "

There have been resurrections/translations in the past and there will be more in the future. This is a scriptural fact. Martyred tribulation believers (those who become believers during the tribulation ..... the Lord will not withdraw His offer of salvation during the period) and the Lord's two prophets will be resurrected at the end of the period and added to the Body of Christ which will be resurrected just before the tribulation. Again there is ample evidence of their presence in heaven and immortalized before and during the tribulation in Revelation. There are no resurrections scheduled after those days of tribulation ..... but gatherings of mortals who will populate the Lord's millennial kingdom. If all believers were resurrected at the end of the tribulation in a general resurrection there would be no mortal believers that could be selected for the Lord's earthly millennial kingdom.

The gatherings in matthew 24 and 25 explain that this will take place and also the criteria for enterence. They are the elect of national Israel (His brethren) first as noted in Matthew 24 and the sheep of the nations noted in Matthew 25. We are not told just how those mortals populating the millennial kingdom will be dealt with, but one would assume that they will be just the same as any human regarding eternal life. We are told that all of the believing dead of all human existence from the beginning of human creation will rise and face the second death at the end of the Lord's millennium as Mike says. They are the tares and their spirits will be destroyed in the lake of fire. The wheat, the spirits of all believers, will enter then enter eternity and there will be a new heaven and new earth that will last forever.

One has to distinguish the time value of "day" and "hour" etc., because these time segments are often extended time frames and not just one day or one hour. Most in prophecy need to be understood as "at that time", like the day of the Lord which is a long period of time, or "in that day" ..... events will take place. This is a common phrase throughout O.T. and N.T. prophecy. Like Peter says the day of the Lord will begin like a "thief" wh comes without warning ..... in which this current heavens and earth will be destroyed. Many events are scheduled between these two and can be found in other visions.

Ezekiel 38,39 is a vision of the invasion of national Israel and the battle of Armageddon, another similar example of a beginning and ending event with those in between not seen in the context of the vision. This is very commom structure of a prophetic vision so for example; the day of the Lord is coming when all will hear his voice and some will be raised to life and some to destruction does not mean that theseevents will be on the same day ...... there is an obvious time lapse between the first rersurrection (a type of resurrection) and the second resurrection(also a type) ..... the resurrection to damnation, the second death, as noted in scripture.

So I would suggest that you study all of the time values in visionary prophecy related to the time of the end ...... "in that day" or "on that day", or "at that time" ..... there are many. If you have a Bible subject engine, type in these terms and you will get the entire list of all of them in scripture. They refer to a future "period of time" ..... not just one "day". Even the "last day" is a term that designates a period of time in the future.

I would also suggest being careful not to discount the Lord's promise to the members of the Body of Christ living just before His "hour" (7 years) of wrath and judgment against an unbelieving world of humans begins. If you die in the Lord before this future time it will not make any difference to you because if you die as a believer you will be raised as one "dead" in Christ in this case and obviously will not go through the tribulation of the 70th week that is coming. But, if you are living at the time you may miss His call because you might not be ready at the moment (you could possibly recant for what ever reason ..... and He may leave you, and if so you will go into the tribulation. The danger here is that you may be so caught up in the tribulation period with all of the deception, destruction, and vexation that you might turn against Him as Revelation tells us many will do. Billions of humans will be killed during the period and will die in separation from the Lord and they will be lost forever.

So you should maxmize your options rather than refuting an early "harpazo" action by the Lord and then missing it. There are no scriptures related to this action, when properly interpreted, that can be used to refute it. Many are doing this today and I caution against it. You have to make your own choices and will be accountable for them. I do not recommend second guessing the Lord on His promise to keep living believers from His wrath against unbelievers, and His direct warning to be ready for the event ..... there will be no warning or signs before it happens ..... none.

Some are teaching today that if you join their cult you will be come impervious to the effects of the tribulation as you go through it because you will reach perfection as a "super Christian" before the tribulation starts. These are lies of the devil for drawing you into the period where he can kill you in one way or another during his rant on the earth. No one will become a "super Christian" before the tribulation period. In fact those who do enter and become believers during the time frame will most likely be martyred for their faith by beheading.

If there was a rapture how could anyone miss it by refuting it? Salvation doesn't depend on believing in rapture. Also, where is the Lord's promise to "keep living believers from His wrath against unbelievers?"


He promises to keep us from His wrath if we don't take the mark of the beast. What is that mark?


As far as when the end comes....we are not to know the day or hour but we are certainly to know the season. We're there. Also He tells us some things that will happen before His Advent. One of the markers is the murder of the two witnesses. Another is when Satan, the desolator, is in Jerusalem pretending to be Christ.


.......Whirlwind

Taking the Lord at His word is better [Revelation 3:10] Also, some some think they are saved ..... and are not .... you know them, I know them. I also do not believe in "once saved always saved" as some do. I think a believer can walk away and if so could get caught. And no one can know when the Lord will start His hour of trial ..... no one. The start date will come without warning just as He has said. And just before His hour of trial starts ..... His "harpazo" action will take place. Don't chance missing it. Not a good idea.

This is a straw man!
No post trib scholar teaches that God is not going to keep his promise keep living believers from His wrath against unbelievers.
Post trib scholars believe that God does not have to physically remove us from the world in order to keep us from the wrath. He is perfectly able to protect us from the wrath while we are here.
If he could protect (keep) the 3 Hebrew worthies, then he can keep (protect) us.
The word keep is used in other places by John as, "protect from."
We all agree: He will keep his followers from wrath!
You set up a straw man, attack it as a cult and associate all post-trib scholars with the cult.
If you have an argument, with a position some take then I suggest you state it fairly and refute with scripture instead of all kinds of warnings and innuendoes. You will be much more effective.
If not, everyone will see through it and you will lose credibility. Just a little friendly advice.
3am

Happy Thanksgiving Day to you Stephen,


Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


The scripture you referenced does tell us that He will keep us from the hour of temptation. That is the time Satan is on earth - his hour in which he will deceive all that he can by playing like he is Christ. God keeps us from that because we know His Word. We know Satan comes first and we are NOT TEMPTED to follow him.


I agree with you in that I don't believe "once saved always saved." He will never leave us but we can certainly turn our back to Him. That is what will happen during Satan's hour. Those that have loved Christ all their lives will follow Satan unknowingly, believing he is our Saviour.


I believe scripture tells us that we will all be here throughout the temptation of Satan. His elect, those that know the truth, will not be misled. There are signs pointing to when He comes but, as you said, we do not know the day or hour. Whether we are changed before His wrath or after His wrath.....I don't know. I do know that we will not be harmed if we stand on the Rock. His wrath is for those that took the mark! We, His children, will be protected as He loves us.


.........Whirlwind

It is all a matter of timing. The Lord will not take revenge with His hour of trial upon current believers living at the time. These are not appointed to His wrath and judgments. This would not serve His purpose for judging the world for unbelief ..... and the believer is already judged and saved by His sacrifice on the cross, His grace, and by your faith in His ability and promise to save you. If one lives just before He will protect by translating to immortality ..... this same event will include the resurrection and translation of all of the dead in Christ who obviously will not experience the tribulation period either.

Both groups will be caught up together at the same time in the twinkling of an eye to immortality. Only then will the Lord start His judgment process of the 70th week. Keep in mind that it is the Lord who will do the judging during the entire period and He will use satan in the process ..... He will send the "lie" to an unbelieving world. He will also move the beast (little horn) and the 10 kings to destroy MBG's "great city". Many humans will be effected by this destruction ..... but He will call His people (all living believers at the time) out just before this destruction which will take place as the first judgment event of the period. [Revelation 18:4]. This action is the same as the translation event for living believers just before His hour of trial begins.

If you happen to be living at the time you will either be ready and will be translated to immortality or if you are not ready you will go into the tribulation period. He will take those who are ready [Revelation 3:10-11], and will reject those who are not [Revelation 3:16]. There will be no guarantee for your protection during the period if you enter it. In fact, if you become a believer or continue to be one .... who was not ready ..... you will most likely be martyred by beheading at the hands of the beast and his followers [I believe these will be primarily the adherents of Islam]. It is possible that you will survive physically and still will be alive on the earth after the tribulation period. There will not be many who do ..... billions will be killed during the Lord's hour of trial. If you are still a believer at the time the Lord will allow you into enter His 1,000 kingdom on the earth as a mortal. If you are an Israelite you will be gathered first as His "elect" of national Israel ..... His "brethern" ..... He is an Israelite by His humanity. If a Gentile, next as a sheep of the nations. All goats ..... unbelievers will not enter.

Maximize your potential by being ready ..... for He will come as a thief ..... no warning ..... no signs ..... just before He begins His hour of trial against an unbelieving world of humanity. Let no one steal your crown by convincing you that you need not be ready for this initial event ..... that you should look for the signs and events of the tribulation period as recorded in scripture instead. Your chances on the other side in the tribulation period will be greatly reduced by the conditions that will prevail. Do not miss the fact that His intervention will begin without warning and His visable appearence at the end of the tribulation to establish His earthly kingdom for 1,000 years will be separated by 7 years of His wrath and judgments ..... His hour of trial. Many are teaching against and refuting this truth today and the movement is growing. Do not be deceived. All methods of the interpretation of scripture used by those who refute can be shown to be deceptive. All of them. On the other hand, all of the same and related additional scriptures can be substantiated ..... and all are totally congruent.

Have a great thanksgivng. We have much to be thankful for .... the believer's immortality in a perfect universe is coming.