God Floods Noah’s Land
(from the Kings James Bible)
Gen 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
11 The earth (the word earth means land- not the planet. The
meaning of flood changes dramatically when this difference is taken into account) also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh (in the land) had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh (in Noah’s land) is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth (land), to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth (land) shall die.
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
The Sinking of Noah’s Land
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth (land).
7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth (land).
2 The fountains also of the deep (ocean) and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains (range) of Ararat.
The flood, which was a combination of flashflood and the land collapsing into the ocean, wiped out all life in the region. Noah’s ark floated on the ocean until coming to rest at the base of a mountain range- the “mountains of Ararat. It appeared as if the waters were receding, but it was actually the ark getting closer and closer to land and the mountains appearing to rise on the horizon.
5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
6 And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf (if the whole planet had been flooded, then an olive leaf from a live olive tree would have been impossible) plucked off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
O
Full Version: Noah Floated On The Ocean
QUOTE(Orates @ Nov 19 2007, 06:38 PM) [snapback]131474[/snapback]
wiped out all life in the region.
Are you suggesting that the flood was only regional (as opposed to "world-wide")??
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Gen 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.[/b
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; [b]and the mountains were covered.
Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
It's a little different when we include the context.
If indeed it was only a local (regional) flood, it was only that because there was only one land mass upon the entirety of the earth.
However, every living thing, apart from what was on the ark, was indeed destroyed. Otherwise, what would be the point of building an ark, why not just move to higher ground?
QUOTE(Superfundy @ Nov 19 2007, 09:21 PM) [snapback]131478[/snapback]
QUOTE(Orates @ Nov 19 2007, 06:38 PM) [snapback]131474[/snapback]
wiped out all life in the region.
Are you suggesting that the flood was only regional (as opposed to "world-wide")??
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Gen 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.[/b
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; [b]and the mountains were covered.
Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
It's a little different when we include the context.
If indeed it was only a local (regional) flood, it was only that because there was only one land mass upon the entirety of the earth.
However, every living thing, apart from what was on the ark, was indeed destroyed. Otherwise, what would be the point of building an ark, why not just move to higher ground?
All the usages of the word "earth" refers to the land or ground. All life in the land was wiped out. The fountains of the great deep were opened and the rains fell. Basically the ground sank and the Ark floated on the ocean. There was not a world wide flood and science concurs. Christians look foolish to the world in believing that water rose to the tops of mountains and that the Ark rested on top of a mountain, when in actuality, the Ark floated on the ocean after Noah's land sank and it came to rest at the base of a mountain range called Ararat- most likely not the mountain we know as Ararat today. God might have allowed Noah to believe that the whole known earth was flooded, but there couldn't have been a surviving olive branch if it was covered by flood waters and mud.
O
QUOTE(Orates @ Nov 19 2007, 08:38 PM) [snapback]131474[/snapback]
God Floods Noah’s Land
(from the Kings James Bible)
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
This was an interesting post and makes one think.
The above verse (19) is also one that should be considered past the cursory reading.
.........Whirlwind
QUOTE(Orates @ Nov 20 2007, 06:13 PM) [snapback]131662[/snapback]
QUOTE(Superfundy @ Nov 19 2007, 09:21 PM) [snapback]131478[/snapback]
QUOTE(Orates @ Nov 19 2007, 06:38 PM) [snapback]131474[/snapback]
wiped out all life in the region.
Are you suggesting that the flood was only regional (as opposed to "world-wide")??
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Gen 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.[/b
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; [b]and the mountains were covered.
Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
It's a little different when we include the context.
If indeed it was only a local (regional) flood, it was only that because there was only one land mass upon the entirety of the earth.
However, every living thing, apart from what was on the ark, was indeed destroyed. Otherwise, what would be the point of building an ark, why not just move to higher ground?
All the usages of the word "earth" refers to the land or ground. All life in the land was wiped out. The fountains of the great deep were opened and the rains fell. Basically the ground sank and the Ark floated on the ocean.
OIC where we are here.....science (who's knowledge is continually changing and finding itself to be wrong) trumps Gods word. Well, lets apply some scintific data to the problem, and we'll realize that science continually confirms the biblical record (even though they seem to try really hard not to). Keep researching is my advice to you, and you'll find, like always, the bible is correct.
Grace and peace.
OIC where we are here.....science (who's knowledge is continually changing and finding itself to be wrong) trumps Gods word. Well, lets apply some scintific data to the problem, and we'll realize that science continually confirms the biblical record (even though they seem to try really hard not to). Keep researching is my advice to you, and you'll find, like always, the bible is correct.
Grace and peace.
Part of the problem in interpreting "earth" as the whole planet is that the concept of a ball floating in space is fairly modern. The writers of Genesis probably were born and died within a few hundred miles of their birthplace. To them the concept of a planet earth was unknown. It would be like a three year old looking out his window at his backyard and seeing it flooded and saying, "Wow- look Mom! the whole world is flooded!". a very limited viewpoint indeed. If we take the literal definition of "earth" as land or ground, then Noah's flood did cover the whole earth/land, but not the planet.
P.S. I am shocked by the number of negative responses to these "Genesis" posts. I thought the hardline fundamentlalist view of the Bible was outdated and that the intelligent design of our universe has been debated supporting science and the Biblical view. I guess I was naive.
O
QUOTE(Orates @ Nov 25 2007, 05:59 PM) [snapback]132723[/snapback]
OIC where we are here.....science (who's knowledge is continually changing and finding itself to be wrong) trumps Gods word. Well, lets apply some scintific data to the problem, and we'll realize that science continually confirms the biblical record (even though they seem to try really hard not to). Keep researching is my advice to you, and you'll find, like always, the bible is correct.
Grace and peace.
Part of the problem in interpreting "earth" as the whole planet is that the concept of a ball floating in space is fairly modern. The writers of Genesis probably were born and died within a few hundred miles of their birthplace. To them the concept of a planet earth was unknown. It would be like a three year old looking out his window at his backyard and seeing it flooded and saying, "Wow- look Mom! the whole world is flooded!". a very limited viewpoint indeed. If we take the literal definition of "earth" as land or ground, then Noah's flood did cover the whole earth/land, but not the planet.
P.S. I am shocked by the number of negative responses to these "Genesis" posts. I thought the hardline fundamentlalist view of the Bible was outdated and that the intelligent design of our universe has been debated supporting science and the Biblical view. I guess I was naive.
O
There are two points to consider in your response. The first is that man didn't write the Bible....God inspired the words. So....when you say the "writers of Genesis probably were born and died within a few hundred miles of their birthplace" I don't know if that can be applied to the written word showing the earth being flooded.
On the other hand, there is other scripture that suggests when the word "earth" is used....it means their area of the world. My personal opinion is that is what is meant in the Genesis narrative. God flooded the area where the fallen angels were.
The Bible is essentially about one Being and how His family affects the world. The fallen angels were not just taking women but were taking Adamic women....they wanted to contaminate the line that led to Christ. Noah, as is written, was "perfect in his generations." [Gen.6:9] In other words, his lineage, his pedigree was pure...not mixed with that of the fallen angels.
So....God flooded "the earth," or what I believe is Noah's area of the earth and cleansed it of the "wickedness of man." It's a shame that it didn't last.
.........Whirlwind
It is actually impossible for angels to reproduce sexually with women (or each other) because they do not possess DNA (or sex organs)- only physical beings do. So to believe that fallen angels had sexual relations with women is misguided. The Sons of God were descendants of Adam and the daughters of man were outsiders. Is there any other scripture that proves angels pro-create?
If your premise of reproducing angels is incorrect, then maybe it is time to look for an alternative.
O
If your premise of reproducing angels is incorrect, then maybe it is time to look for an alternative.
O
QUOTE(Orates @ Nov 25 2007, 03:59 PM) [snapback]132723[/snapback]
Part of the problem in interpreting "earth" as the whole planet is that the concept of a ball floating in space is fairly modern. The writers of Genesis probably were born and died within a few hundred miles of their birthplace. To them the concept of a planet earth was unknown. It would be like a three year old looking out his window at his backyard and seeing it flooded and saying, "Wow- look Mom! the whole world is flooded!". a very limited viewpoint indeed. If we take the literal definition of "earth" as land or ground, then Noah's flood did cover the whole earth/land, but not the planet.
P.S. I am shocked by the number of negative responses to these "Genesis" posts. I thought the hardline fundamentlalist view of the Bible was outdated and that the intelligent design of our universe has been debated supporting science and the Biblical view. I guess I was naive.
O
P.S. I am shocked by the number of negative responses to these "Genesis" posts. I thought the hardline fundamentlalist view of the Bible was outdated and that the intelligent design of our universe has been debated supporting science and the Biblical view. I guess I was naive.
O
Yes, you are spiritually naive indeed if you think God's word is "outdated" (Mat 24:35).
Your arrogant presumption is that by scientific observation you can know something Moses did not about the creation?
I suggest you hear the word of God regarding Moses:
Num 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
Num 12:7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
Num 12:8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
Moses knew things even Apostles did not. So much so, his face radiated with a light over which a veil had to be placed, because men could not look upon him. But, I suppose you consider all that to be a fantasy as well?? (John 5:47)
As shocked as you may be ay my "fundamental" view of the scripture, I am moreso, regarding the flagrant disregard for it that I see so prevalent today, despite the continual confirmation of it's truth.
Truely amazing.
QUOTE(Orates @ Jan 9 2008, 01:58 PM) [snapback]140880[/snapback]
It is actually impossible for angels to reproduce sexually with women (or each other) because they do not possess DNA (or sex organs)- only physical beings do.
Wrong again:
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
QUOTE
So to believe that fallen angels had sexual relations with women is misguided.
I guess Jude was "misguided":
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
QUOTE
The Sons of God were descendants of Adam and the daughters of man were outsiders. Is there any other scripture that proves angels pro-create?
Is there any scriptural reason to believe they do NOT??
QUOTE
If your premise of reproducing angels is incorrect, then maybe it is time to look for an alternative.
O
O
What would you suggest?
it is not necessary for everything in the bible to be scientifically possible and explainable.
the bible is a super-natural book............it is a Miracle.........the Book itself is a Miracle
The Bible tells us of many Miracles and super-natural events
Orates,,,,,,,,,are you saying that NOTHING super-natural has EVER happened?
the resurrection of Christ was a Miracle..........do we deny that Miracle?.........No!
the waters covered every mountain...........it's very possible that Miracles were involved....i have no problem with God doing Miracles.
The bible is full of Miracles.
The bird brought back the "surviving olive branch" to Noah...........did it "survive"?.........or did God grow (supply ) it by Miracle?............we don't know...........we don't need to know.
i will rise from the dead, and the "Sweet chariot will swing low, coming for to carry me Home!".................Is that scientifically explainable?.........No.
the bible is a super-natural book............it is a Miracle.........the Book itself is a Miracle
The Bible tells us of many Miracles and super-natural events
Orates,,,,,,,,,are you saying that NOTHING super-natural has EVER happened?
the resurrection of Christ was a Miracle..........do we deny that Miracle?.........No!
the waters covered every mountain...........it's very possible that Miracles were involved....i have no problem with God doing Miracles.
The bible is full of Miracles.
The bird brought back the "surviving olive branch" to Noah...........did it "survive"?.........or did God grow (supply ) it by Miracle?............we don't know...........we don't need to know.
i will rise from the dead, and the "Sweet chariot will swing low, coming for to carry me Home!".................Is that scientifically explainable?.........No.
The giants (Nephilim)
The Hebrew word used to describe the Nephilim occurs in only
two verses of the Old Testament, one in our passage from Genesis 6 and the other
in the book of Numbers.
In the book of Numbers, we find that the descendants of Anak are part of the Nephilim.
The verses tell us little about the people, other than they were strong and tall and lived in fortified cities. Were these Nephilim the same as the Nephilim of Genesis ?
Nephilim does not describe a race of peoples.
In the Bible, races of people groups were designated by their founding male ancestor.
The Anakim were descendent of Anak.
The Nephilim are never described as being descended from anybody.
The term actually means "giants," being derived from the Hebrew word nephal, which means to "fall upon" or "overthrow," referring to their warlike nature.
The Old Testament describes Nephilim both before and after the flood, and if the Nephilim were a race then it would contradict the rest of the Scriptures, which indicates pretty clearly that there were only eight survivors of the flood.
No where in the bible does it state that demons can materialize a fleshly body ..
"materialize" and "dematerialize" are expressions not found in the scriptures.
Luke 24:39
" See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit
does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
( Jude 6 says: “The angels that did not keep their original position but forsook
their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense
darkness for the judgment of the great day.” )
Can we look at this another way .... ?
The Angels ( Spirits or Messengers of GOD ) did not remain in their original
possitions but forsook their own proper dwelling place ( but left their superior
establishment and spiritual arrangement ) .....
These individuals that left Jehovah's spiritual abode or arrangement on this
earth were His angels or messengers to mankind at that time and these where
possessed by evil spirits and these individuals then under the influence of these
spirits took to themselves as many wives as they wanted ( Kings who are looked upon as being GODs and their Harems )... these superior ones
did not remain in the teachings of GOD ....
Noah preached to them being anointed by the LORD and chosen to bring judgment
towards the religious entities or households at that time ...... these are the
spirits or angels ( His messengers those who were supposed to lead the people to
GOD ) that are confined and that will be judged within the 1000 year judgment
period.
They have in the past and are now in our time able to take over and influence
individual physical bodies and that's all.
And yet, we see that the children of these 'possessed' men were much more
capable , these becoming legends.
*** Ephesians 6:11-12 ***
Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm
against the machinations of the Devil; because we have a wrestling, not against
blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against
the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the
heavenly places.
The battle isn't coming from our physical beings, but
rather from the Devil and the strings that he pulls, both physical and spiritual.
The corruption of power from demonic influences is that which good people
are put to the test with .
So to me it seems that there is still much interpretation left concerning this teaching ... one which the spirit within me just cannot agree on.
JMHO ....
The Hebrew word used to describe the Nephilim occurs in only
two verses of the Old Testament, one in our passage from Genesis 6 and the other
in the book of Numbers.
In the book of Numbers, we find that the descendants of Anak are part of the Nephilim.
The verses tell us little about the people, other than they were strong and tall and lived in fortified cities. Were these Nephilim the same as the Nephilim of Genesis ?
Nephilim does not describe a race of peoples.
In the Bible, races of people groups were designated by their founding male ancestor.
The Anakim were descendent of Anak.
The Nephilim are never described as being descended from anybody.
The term actually means "giants," being derived from the Hebrew word nephal, which means to "fall upon" or "overthrow," referring to their warlike nature.
The Old Testament describes Nephilim both before and after the flood, and if the Nephilim were a race then it would contradict the rest of the Scriptures, which indicates pretty clearly that there were only eight survivors of the flood.
No where in the bible does it state that demons can materialize a fleshly body ..
"materialize" and "dematerialize" are expressions not found in the scriptures.
Luke 24:39
" See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit
does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
( Jude 6 says: “The angels that did not keep their original position but forsook
their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense
darkness for the judgment of the great day.” )
Can we look at this another way .... ?
The Angels ( Spirits or Messengers of GOD ) did not remain in their original
possitions but forsook their own proper dwelling place ( but left their superior
establishment and spiritual arrangement ) .....
These individuals that left Jehovah's spiritual abode or arrangement on this
earth were His angels or messengers to mankind at that time and these where
possessed by evil spirits and these individuals then under the influence of these
spirits took to themselves as many wives as they wanted ( Kings who are looked upon as being GODs and their Harems )... these superior ones
did not remain in the teachings of GOD ....
Noah preached to them being anointed by the LORD and chosen to bring judgment
towards the religious entities or households at that time ...... these are the
spirits or angels ( His messengers those who were supposed to lead the people to
GOD ) that are confined and that will be judged within the 1000 year judgment
period.
They have in the past and are now in our time able to take over and influence
individual physical bodies and that's all.
And yet, we see that the children of these 'possessed' men were much more
capable , these becoming legends.
*** Ephesians 6:11-12 ***
Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm
against the machinations of the Devil; because we have a wrestling, not against
blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against
the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the
heavenly places.
The battle isn't coming from our physical beings, but
rather from the Devil and the strings that he pulls, both physical and spiritual.
The corruption of power from demonic influences is that which good people
are put to the test with .
So to me it seems that there is still much interpretation left concerning this teaching ... one which the spirit within me just cannot agree on.
JMHO ....
QUOTE(ABJAH58 @ Jan 9 2008, 09:45 PM) [snapback]140935[/snapback]
The giants (Nephilim)
The Hebrew word used to describe the Nephilim occurs in only
two verses of the Old Testament, one in our passage from Genesis 6 and the other
in the book of Numbers.
In the book of Numbers, we find that the descendants of Anak are part of the Nephilim.
The verses tell us little about the people, other than they were strong and tall and lived in fortified cities. Were these Nephilim the same as the Nephilim of Genesis ?
Nephilim does not describe a race of peoples.
In the Bible, races of people groups were designated by their founding male ancestor.
The Anakim were descendent of Anak.
The Nephilim are never described as being descended from anybody.
The term actually means "giants," being derived from the Hebrew word nephal, which means to "fall upon" or "overthrow," referring to their warlike nature.
The Old Testament describes Nephilim both before and after the flood, and if the Nephilim were a race then it would contradict the rest of the Scriptures, which indicates pretty clearly that there were only eight survivors of the flood.
No where in the bible does it state that demons can materialize a fleshly body ..
"materialize" and "dematerialize" are expressions not found in the scriptures.
Luke 24:39
" See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit
does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
( Jude 6 says: “The angels that did not keep their original position but forsook
their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense
darkness for the judgment of the great day.” )
Can we look at this another way .... ?
The Angels ( Spirits or Messengers of GOD ) did not remain in their original
possitions but forsook their own proper dwelling place ( but left their superior
establishment and spiritual arrangement ) .....
These individuals that left Jehovah's spiritual abode or arrangement on this
earth were His angels or messengers to mankind at that time and these where
possessed by evil spirits and these individuals then under the influence of these
spirits took to themselves as many wives as they wanted ( Kings who are looked upon as being GODs and their Harems )... these superior ones
did not remain in the teachings of GOD ....
Noah preached to them being anointed by the LORD and chosen to bring judgment
towards the religious entities or households at that time ...... these are the
spirits or angels ( His messengers those who were supposed to lead the people to
GOD ) that are confined and that will be judged within the 1000 year judgment
period.
They have in the past and are now in our time able to take over and influence
individual physical bodies and that's all.
And yet, we see that the children of these 'possessed' men were much more
capable , these becoming legends.
The bible doesn't tell us "how" is was done at all. Just the fact that it was done.
Speculation about possessions and such are still only speculations. There is nothing in the bible limiting angelic beings from sexual activity, and in fact these particular angelic beings seem to have been a unique group. But either way, it matters not "how" it happened, just that it is recorded as happening.
QUOTE
*** Ephesians 6:11-12 ***
Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm
against the machinations of the Devil; because we have a wrestling, not against
blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against
the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the
heavenly places.
The battle isn't coming from our physical beings, but
rather from the Devil and the strings that he pulls, both physical and spiritual.
The corruption of power from demonic influences is that which good people
are put to the test with .
So to me it seems that there is still much interpretation left concerning this teaching ... one which the spirit within me just cannot agree on.
JMHO ....
Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm
against the machinations of the Devil; because we have a wrestling, not against
blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against
the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the
heavenly places.
The battle isn't coming from our physical beings, but
rather from the Devil and the strings that he pulls, both physical and spiritual.
The corruption of power from demonic influences is that which good people
are put to the test with .
So to me it seems that there is still much interpretation left concerning this teaching ... one which the spirit within me just cannot agree on.
JMHO ....
The battle does not originate from our physical beings, but in many cases it could be a battle for control of our physical beings.
We do not battle against the flesh, but rather we battle against the spiritual wickedness which influences the flesh to do all sorts of evil.
I believe that the mixture of angelic beings with humanity was one of the reasons that Noah was chosen from among all the men of the world to be spared.
Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
This seems to indicate that Noah was of a pure line back to Adam, to whom the promise of the Messiah was first made. It is the Messiahnic line that is the reason for the keeping of the geneologies, and it is also the reason for many of the strict Mosaic laws regarding virginity and mingling with the gentile races.
QUOTE(ABJAH58 @ Jan 9 2008, 11:45 PM) [snapback]140935[/snapback]
The giants (Nephilim)
The Hebrew word used to describe the Nephilim occurs in only
two verses of the Old Testament, one in our passage from Genesis 6 and the other
in the book of Numbers.
In the book of Numbers, we find that the descendants of Anak are part of the Nephilim.
The verses tell us little about the people, other than they were strong and tall and lived in fortified cities. Were these Nephilim the same as the Nephilim of Genesis ?
Nephilim does not describe a race of peoples.
In the Bible, races of people groups were designated by their founding male ancestor.
The Anakim were descendent of Anak.
The Nephilim are never described as being descended from anybody.
The term actually means "giants," being derived from the Hebrew word nephal, which means to "fall upon" or "overthrow," referring to their warlike nature.
The progeny of the fallen angels with the daughters of Adam are called Nephillim, which means fallen ones (from naphal, to fall). What these beings were can be gathered only from Scripture. They were evidently great in size, as well as great in wickedness. They were superhuman, abnormal beings; and their destruction was necessary for the preservation of the human race, and for the faithfulness of Jehovah's Word (Gen.3:15)......
So that "after that", i.e. after the Flood, there was a second irruption of these fallen angels, evidently smaller in number and more limited in area, for they were for the most part confined to Canaan, and were in fact known as "the nations of Canaan". It was for the destruction of these, that the sword of Israel was necessary, as the Flood had been before.....
They are enumerated and named among Canaanite Peoples: "Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, and the Hitties, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, and the Amorites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites". These were to be cut off, and driven out, and utterly destroyed.
As Rephaim they were well known, and are often mentioned: but, unfortunately, instead of this, their proper name, being preserved, it is variously translated as "dead, deceased, or giants." These Rephaim are to have no resurrection. This fact is stated in Isa.26:14 where the proper name is rendered "deceased," and v.19, where it is rendered "the dead. ~ E.W. Bullinger
QUOTE
The Old Testament describes Nephilim both before and after the flood, and if the Nephilim were a race then it would contradict the rest of the Scriptures, which indicates pretty clearly that there were only eight survivors of the flood.
There were eight Adamic survivors but there were two of all races of man on the ark:
Genesis 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
Flesh #1320 ~ basar from 1319 flesh, (from it's freshness); by extens. body, person; also (by euphej.) the pudenda of a man: - body, [fat, lean] flesh [ed], kin, [man-] kind. + nakedness, self, skin.
#1319 basar ~ a prim. root; prop. to be fresh, i.e. full (rosy, (fig.) cheerful); to announce (glad news): - messenger, preach, publish, shew forth, (bear, bring carry, preach, good, tell good ) tidings.
The "flesh" God instructed Noah to take on the ark, were two of all the races. Perhaps they, as Noah, were the best of their races and they were to "preach, publish and tell the good tidings."
Genesis 7:15. And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16.And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.
........Whirlwnd
I was about to raise some objections to your post about “all flesh” being male and female of every race of people. However, when I looked up both the words translated "all flesh" and the phrase "all flesh" in a concordance, and looked at itheir occurrences in the Old Testament, what you have said regarding Gen 6:19 and Gen 7:15-16 does seem to make sense.
I find this intriguing, but not enough to spend the time to “flesh” it out for myself (LOL). I will leave that up to others to discuss and debate.
Interesting topic though.
I find this intriguing, but not enough to spend the time to “flesh” it out for myself (LOL). I will leave that up to others to discuss and debate.
Interesting topic though.
I agree with Super. Science is constantly changing what it "believes". Also---the gospel will always be foolishness to those who are perishing. What do i care what scientists think about me and my thoughts on creation?
God set it up to where those who truly follow Him will look foolish to the world. It is crucifying to our flesh.
I've studied microbiology.....intracelluar evolution...intelligent design...irreducible complexity.....the file transfer system of the endoplasmic reticulum......I scoff at evolution. Neo-Darwinism is collapsing in view of the newest discoveries.
The BIBLE is completely true and fully reliable.
How foolish the SCIENTISTS will look when all is revealed.
Every mountain will be a valley......and every valley exalted.
God set it up to where those who truly follow Him will look foolish to the world. It is crucifying to our flesh.
I've studied microbiology.....intracelluar evolution...intelligent design...irreducible complexity.....the file transfer system of the endoplasmic reticulum......I scoff at evolution. Neo-Darwinism is collapsing in view of the newest discoveries.
The BIBLE is completely true and fully reliable.
How foolish the SCIENTISTS will look when all is revealed.
Every mountain will be a valley......and every valley exalted.
QUOTE(BrotherJon @ Jan 10 2008, 05:55 PM) [snapback]141087[/snapback]
I agree with Super. Science is constantly changing what it "believes". Also---the gospel will always be foolishness to those who are perishing. What do i care what scientists think about me and my thoughts on creation?
God set it up to where those who truly follow Him will look foolish to the world. It is crucifying to our flesh.
I've studied microbiology.....intracelluar evolution...intelligent design...irreducible complexity.....the file transfer system of the endoplasmic reticulum......I scoff at evolution. Neo-Darwinism is collapsing in view of the newest discoveries.
The BIBLE is completely true and fully reliable.
How foolish the SCIENTISTS will look when all is revealed.
Every mountain will be a valley......and every valley exalted.
Amen, and your post brother jon was at 5:55
we are to believe the bible, and science that is true proves the bible true and science that is a pagan idol to most is faith and false and seeks only to try to disprove the bible and is all a lie. we should stand on the word of God knowing that any ' science" that seems to be contrary is not science at all but a lie and a false theory of God haters.
to say that noahs flood was just in his place is not smart, and and against the word of God, and why put animals on the ark at all if just your little area was gonna flood, and how can God kill all flesh when it was just a little area. nonsence.
not to mention to say that noah wouldnt have known because they didnt know about the earth hanging in space, or the size of the actual earth etc and the idea of them being like kindergardeners is also nonesence.
adam walked with God in the garden and talked with him, was taught by him and given dominion by him, those people lived almost or around 1000 yrs! they would have much more wisdom and understanding then the high minded people of today think they have. to assume they did not know about the earth etc.. when they knew God and knew adam the first man and were all alive and crossed lives shows this information would be passed down.
also cultures from all over the world have the same flood story of it happening all over the world, this would not be true if it was just a small area.
also all true scientic evidence shows from all over the world proof of a world wide flood- try watching for help the 7 kent hovind videos about creation and evolution.
( also cultures from all over the world have the same flood story of it happening all over the world, this would not be true if it was just a small area )
You need to remember that the flood happend before the tower of babel was built and the people were scatterd in different directions .. this is how the story spread .
Apparently most don't take this incident into consideration.
You need to remember that the flood happend before the tower of babel was built and the people were scatterd in different directions .. this is how the story spread .
Apparently most don't take this incident into consideration.
QUOTE(ABJAH58 @ Jan 12 2008, 03:45 PM) [snapback]141463[/snapback]
( also cultures from all over the world have the same flood story of it happening all over the world, this would not be true if it was just a small area )
You need to remember that the flood happend before the tower of babel was built and the people were scatterd in different directions .. this is how the story spread .
Apparently most don't take this incident into consideration.
that is a good point, however i think it is fair to say that it would be speculation to say that is how is spread- or that it is the only way is spread, also it would be speculation to say that people did not live all over the place before babel.
QUOTE(GodspromisesRyes @ Jan 14 2008, 03:46 PM) [snapback]141892[/snapback]
QUOTE(ABJAH58 @ Jan 12 2008, 03:45 PM) [snapback]141463[/snapback]
( also cultures from all over the world have the same flood story of it happening all over the world, this would not be true if it was just a small area )
You need to remember that the flood happend before the tower of babel was built and the people were scatterd in different directions .. this is how the story spread .
Apparently most don't take this incident into consideration.
that is a good point, however i think it is fair to say that it would be speculation to say that is how is spread- or that it is the only way is spread, also it would be speculation to say that people did not live all over the place before babel.
Well, I don't speculate ... According to GODs own word people did not live all over the world until they were scattered over the face of the earth ... read very carefully .
( The whole earth and over the face of the whole earth have two seperate applications. One dealing with total humanity , the other with this planet.)
It is a coming about of kingdoms - nations and the seperation of their leaders - kings ( Noahs sons etc .. ) and the geneologies of their inheritance .
Genesis 10
Descendants of Noah
1Now these are the generations of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah; and sons were born to them after the flood.
5 From these the coastlands of the nations were separated into their lands every one[/b], according to their families, into their nations.
32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, by their nations; and out of these the nations were separated on the earth after the flood.
Genesis 11
1 Now the whole earth used the same language and the same words.
6 The LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them.
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city.
9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of the whole earth; and from there the LORD scattered them abroad over the face of the whole earth.
I think the last scripture makes things very clear ...
QUOTE(ABJAH58 @ Jan 19 2008, 03:01 AM) [snapback]142806[/snapback]
QUOTE(GodspromisesRyes @ Jan 14 2008, 03:46 PM) [snapback]141892[/snapback]
QUOTE(ABJAH58 @ Jan 12 2008, 03:45 PM) [snapback]141463[/snapback]
( also cultures from all over the world have the same flood story of it happening all over the world, this would not be true if it was just a small area )
You need to remember that the flood happend before the tower of babel was built and the people were scatterd in different directions .. this is how the story spread .
Apparently most don't take this incident into consideration.
that is a good point, however i think it is fair to say that it would be speculation to say that is how is spread- or that it is the only way is spread, also it would be speculation to say that people did not live all over the place before babel.
Well, I don't speculate ... According to GODs own word people did not live all over the world until they were scattered over the face of the earth ... read very carefully .
( The whole earth and over the face of the whole earth have two seperate applications. One dealing with total humanity , the other with this planet.)
It is a coming about of kingdoms - nations and the seperation of their leaders - kings ( Noahs sons etc .. ) and the geneologies of their inheritance .
Genesis 10
Descendants of Noah
1Now these are the generations of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah; and sons were born to them after the flood.
5 From these the coastlands of the nations were separated into their lands every one[/b], according to their families, into their nations.
32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, by their nations; and out of these the nations were separated on the earth after the flood.
Genesis 11
1 Now the whole earth used the same language and the same words.
6 The LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them.
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city.
9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of the whole earth; and from there the LORD scattered them abroad over the face of the whole earth.
I think the last scripture makes things very clear ...
Now substitute the correct word "land" for "earth" throughout your quotes and see what it really says.
O
Now substitute the correct word "land" for "earth" throughout your quotes and see what it really says.
It only localizes it even more ... earth , land , soil etc. can all be used in a figurative way to describe an individual or mankind in general ... there are also other words in the old prophet books that describe mankind using waters, springs , seas, waves etc .... it depends in what time the books were written and what the people new to understand.
Now .. the question really should be .... who are the living and what they represent ... and who are the beasts and livestock ...
How can one son with his wife bring about nations-kingdoms in such a short time to rule over ...
I just feel there is much more to this story than the obvious and I still feel that the expression of ( one who is alive or living ) according to GOD has a much deeper meaning.
It only localizes it even more ... earth , land , soil etc. can all be used in a figurative way to describe an individual or mankind in general ... there are also other words in the old prophet books that describe mankind using waters, springs , seas, waves etc .... it depends in what time the books were written and what the people new to understand.
Now .. the question really should be .... who are the living and what they represent ... and who are the beasts and livestock ...
How can one son with his wife bring about nations-kingdoms in such a short time to rule over ...
I just feel there is much more to this story than the obvious and I still feel that the expression of ( one who is alive or living ) according to GOD has a much deeper meaning.
Oh and one more thing ...
Land can also denote and refer to the country of ones origen or in other words concerning our time or even back then ...
A kingdom-religious entity ... a belief or faith of which one is a part of.
Land can also denote and refer to the country of ones origen or in other words concerning our time or even back then ...
A kingdom-religious entity ... a belief or faith of which one is a part of.
So, if you don't believe the flood covered the entire earth:
did the water still cover the highest mountains and hills?
why did the water stay in the same (local) place for such a long time? Water tries to find the lowest ground it can.
I'm just wondering.
Has anyone here heard of Walt Brown's hydroplate theory?
did the water still cover the highest mountains and hills?
why did the water stay in the same (local) place for such a long time? Water tries to find the lowest ground it can.
I'm just wondering.
Has anyone here heard of Walt Brown's hydroplate theory?
QUOTE(fryslanboppe @ Jan 28 2008, 07:33 PM) [snapback]145013[/snapback]
So, if you don't believe the flood covered the entire earth:
did the water still cover the highest mountains and hills?
why did the water stay in the same (local) place for such a long time? Water tries to find the lowest ground it can.
I'm just wondering.
Has anyone here heard of Walt Brown's hydroplate theory?
I saw him speak about this about 25 years ago at our Church in Toronto at the time. I think it is interesting, and possible.
QUOTE(fryslanboppe @ Jan 28 2008, 04:33 PM) [snapback]145013[/snapback]
So, if you don't believe the flood covered the entire earth:
did the water still cover the highest mountains and hills?
why did the water stay in the same (local) place for such a long time? Water tries to find the lowest ground it can.
I'm just wondering.
Has anyone here heard of Walt Brown's hydroplate theory?
I personally haven't heard of this theory ... is there a place online where this information is available ?
A question that also comes to my mind is ... what kind of geological area was Noah living in when these waters fell ... where they below sea level ?
Is it possible that the area surrounding his homeland in the distance was very mountainous and so kept a certain water level at bay for awhile until it found a way to run off.
Just some more thoughts ...
QUOTE(ABJAH58 @ Jan 29 2008, 08:44 PM) [snapback]145158[/snapback]
QUOTE(fryslanboppe @ Jan 28 2008, 04:33 PM) [snapback]145013[/snapback]
So, if you don't believe the flood covered the entire earth:
did the water still cover the highest mountains and hills?
why did the water stay in the same (local) place for such a long time? Water tries to find the lowest ground it can.
I'm just wondering.
Has anyone here heard of Walt Brown's hydroplate theory?
I personally haven't heard of this theory ... is there a place online where this information is available ?
A question that also comes to my mind is ... what kind of geological area was Noah living in when these waters fell ... where they below sea level ?
Is it possible that the area surrounding his homeland in the distance was very mountainous and so kept a certain water level at bay for awhile until it found a way to run off.
Just some more thoughts ...
much of his book is actually accessible online -- link : http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/...ginningTOC.html
and a video that is probably better than my summary below : http://www.thetaxpayerschannel.org/graphic...ion/fonte23.mov
i will try to state his theory in short.
the earth had much less water on it's surface. Much of it was below the tectonic plates. During the flood the 'fountains of the deep opened' releasing much of the water from under the plates up, supposedly even fast enough to escape earth's gravitational pull. (According to him, creating asteroids and meteoroids)
This also caused the plates to move creating the mountains and deep sea ridges. (so, if mountains were created during the flood, the overall average surface height of the earth was much lower making it possible for the earth to be covered with water, i think this should answer your two questions too
)The flood created the geologic column in one year instead of billions. Explains the frozen mammoths, and a lot of other things.
I think the book will do a better job of explaining the flood.
also, GodspromisesRyes mentioned 7 creation videos by kent hovind but did not give a link. i have it memorized (lol) www.drdino.com/downloads.php (each video is 2-3 hours long)
QUOTE(fryslanboppe @ Jan 30 2008, 02:22 PM) [snapback]145405[/snapback]
QUOTE(ABJAH58 @ Jan 29 2008, 08:44 PM) [snapback]145158[/snapback]
QUOTE(fryslanboppe @ Jan 28 2008, 04:33 PM) [snapback]145013[/snapback]
So, if you don't believe the flood covered the entire earth:
did the water still cover the highest mountains and hills?
why did the water stay in the same (local) place for such a long time? Water tries to find the lowest ground it can.
I'm just wondering.
Has anyone here heard of Walt Brown's hydroplate theory?
I personally haven't heard of this theory ... is there a place online where this information is available ?
A question that also comes to my mind is ... what kind of geological area was Noah living in when these waters fell ... where they below sea level ?
Is it possible that the area surrounding his homeland in the distance was very mountainous and so kept a certain water level at bay for awhile until it found a way to run off.
Just some more thoughts ...
much of his book is actually accessible online -- link : http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/...ginningTOC.html
and a video that is probably better than my summary below : http://www.thetaxpayerschannel.org/graphic...ion/fonte23.mov
i will try to state his theory in short.
the earth had much less water on it's surface. Much of it was below the tectonic plates. During the flood the 'fountains of the deep opened' releasing much of the water from under the plates up, supposedly even fast enough to escape earth's gravitational pull. (According to him, creating asteroids and meteoroids)
This also caused the plates to move creating the mountains and deep sea ridges. (so, if mountains were created during the flood, the overall average surface height of the earth was much lower making it possible for the earth to be covered with water, i think this should answer your two questions too
)The flood created the geologic column in one year instead of billions. Explains the frozen mammoths, and a lot of other things.
I think the book will do a better job of explaining the flood.
also, GodspromisesRyes mentioned 7 creation videos by kent hovind but did not give a link. i have it memorized (lol) www.drdino.com/downloads.php (each video is 2-3 hours long)
Much appreciation ..
I will checkout the links , look and listen and see what man has to say about it.
I'll be back ...
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