What is Bible Prophecy? It can be many things, however, basically Bible prophecy can be divided into past fulfilled and future unfulfilled events. In the past, Bible prophecy has always been where a disaster of Biblical proportions would be looming and out of this impending disaster God would deem that certain individuals would survive. So God would go and communicate to those individuals two things which make up the criteria for Bible Prophecy:
1. He would forewarn them of the impending disaster (the prediction).
2. He would provide them with instructions on how to physically escape.
It would then be up to those individuals to act on the instructions. Noah’s Ark is the classic example. And God has done this many times throughout the Bible.
Concerning Bible Prophecy which lies in our future:
1. God has predicted the coming apocalypse, tribulation, Armageddon and etc (the prediction).
Has God forgotten to provide instructions on how to physically escape? All past fulfilled Bible prophecy contains the prediction and the instructions. Aren't there any instructions?
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
Luke 21: 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Full Version: What Is Bible Prophecy?
QUOTE(guysmith @ Nov 17 2007, 06:31 AM) [snapback]130930[/snapback]
So God would go and communicate to those individuals two things which make up the criteria for Bible Prophecy:
1. He would forewarn them of the impending disaster (the prediction).
2. He would provide them with instructions on how to physically escape.
It would then be up to those individuals to act on the instructions. Noah’s Ark is the classic example. And God has done this many times throughout the Bible.
Concerning Bible Prophecy which lies in our future:
1. God has predicted the coming apocalypse, tribulation, Armageddon and etc (the prediction).
Has God forgotten to provide instructions on how to physically escape? All past fulfilled Bible prophecy contains the prediction and the instructions. Aren't there any instructions?
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
Yes, the short answer: "Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."1. He would forewarn them of the impending disaster (the prediction).
2. He would provide them with instructions on how to physically escape.
It would then be up to those individuals to act on the instructions. Noah’s Ark is the classic example. And God has done this many times throughout the Bible.
Concerning Bible Prophecy which lies in our future:
1. God has predicted the coming apocalypse, tribulation, Armageddon and etc (the prediction).
Has God forgotten to provide instructions on how to physically escape? All past fulfilled Bible prophecy contains the prediction and the instructions. Aren't there any instructions?
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
As for surviving the tribulation, the long answer:
Revelation 14:6Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7 He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water." [the creator]
8A second angel followed and said, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries." "Come out of her my people" (Rev 18:4)
9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." In other words, Dont worship the beast or take his mark!
How can one be sure they dont do that?
Revelation 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
QUOTE
Has God forgotten to provide instructions on how to physically escape?
Of course God hasn't forgotten. It depends on what you mean by "Physically Escape."
If you mean to physically survive in the midst of the tribulation, I agree.
If you mean to physically take us out of this world before the tribulation in order to escape, I would have to disagree.
Noah was very much in the midst of the storm. God provided a means to protect him through the storm.
He did not take him out of the world first.
God did not remove Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego from the world in order to escape the furnace.
He provided an even greater way to escape the flames, by protecting them in the midst of their fiery trial.
God does not have to take us out of the world in order for us to "escape" the tribulation.
His sealed ones are protected through out the tribulation.
3am
Which sealed Israelite tribe are you from 3AM?
QUOTE(Stephen @ Nov 17 2007, 08:49 AM) [snapback]130947[/snapback]
Which sealed Israelite tribe are you from 3AM?
Because I am in Christ who is the Lion of the tribe of Judah!
3am
QUOTE(3am @ Nov 17 2007, 09:18 AM) [snapback]130954[/snapback]
QUOTE(Stephen @ Nov 17 2007, 08:49 AM) [snapback]130947[/snapback]
Which sealed Israelite tribe are you from 3AM?
Judah!Because I am in Christ who is the Lion of the tribe of Judah!
3am
Rev 21:9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.... 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.
Which gate will you enter?
Lets meet at the tree of life. I would like to meet you there.
By the way, they are not sealed yet.
3am
I am a gentile and not of national Israel. What is you ethnic lineage? Are you a national Israelite? Most likely not. Mix on.
QUOTE(guysmith @ Nov 17 2007, 06:31 AM) [snapback]130930[/snapback]
What is Bible Prophecy?
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
Prophecy is of the will of God. To let God's people know what will come to pass. Prophecy that has been fulfilled is no longer prophecy but is now "history".
2 Peter 1
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Come on guys. Haven’t you ever thought about being alive at the second coming or do you all prefer to be martyred under the Anti-Christ? Why do you think that God is forewarning of the Anti-Christ and the Great Tribulation period unless He has provided a means of physical escape? He has, and let I’ll give you a couple of clues:
1. The details are not concentrated in one place but are spread throughout the scriptures.
2. An example of one of the details.
Matt 24: 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Sounds like instructions by God to me.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
1. The details are not concentrated in one place but are spread throughout the scriptures.
2. An example of one of the details.
Matt 24: 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Sounds like instructions by God to me.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
QUOTE(guysmith @ Nov 18 2007, 05:41 AM) [snapback]131142[/snapback]
Come on guys. Haven’t you ever thought about being alive at the second coming or do you all prefer to be martyred under the Anti-Christ? Why do you think that God is forewarning of the Anti-Christ and the Great Tribulation period unless He has provided a means of physical escape? He has, and let I’ll give you a couple of clues:
1. The details are not concentrated in one place but are spread throughout the scriptures.
2. An example of one of the details.
Matt 24: 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Sounds like instructions by God to me.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
I am not sure what your point is?
The instruction here is to flee to the mountains not to the heavens.
Unless you are assuming that Jesus is only talking to a re-gathered national Israel after the rapture which would be a real stretch. Especially in the context of this passage.
But perhaps you should clarify what you mean by escape. Are you referring to a pre-trib rapture?
3am
3am
There will be two types of Christians at the first resurrection at Christ's advent:
1. Those that have died and will be resurrected.
2. Those that will not taste physical death and will walk into the kingdom.
1 Cor:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.
God has provided instructions for a group of Christians to escape the Great Tribulation and survive physically to the second coming.
So which do you prefer, to be alive at the second coming or martyred during the Great Tribulation?
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
There will be two types of Christians at the first resurrection at Christ's advent:
1. Those that have died and will be resurrected.
2. Those that will not taste physical death and will walk into the kingdom.
1 Cor:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.
God has provided instructions for a group of Christians to escape the Great Tribulation and survive physically to the second coming.
So which do you prefer, to be alive at the second coming or martyred during the Great Tribulation?
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
QUOTE(guysmith @ Nov 20 2007, 08:25 AM) [snapback]131579[/snapback]
3am
There will be two types of Christians at the first resurrection at Christ's advent:
1. Those that have died and will be resurrected.
2. Those that will not taste physical death and will walk into the kingdom.
1 Cor:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.
I agree!There will be two types of Christians at the first resurrection at Christ's advent:
1. Those that have died and will be resurrected.
2. Those that will not taste physical death and will walk into the kingdom.
1 Cor:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.
QUOTE
God has provided instructions for a group of Christians to escape the Great Tribulation and survive physically to the second coming.
I agree. But not if you are referring to a pre-trib rapture. There is no instruction to get raptured first before the tribulation.QUOTE
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
You cannot use this verse to prove a pre trib rapture. While it is true, the verse could be understood that way, it can also be understood to mean that you "escape these things" in the sense that the 3 Hebrews escaped the flames of their tribulation in the furnace. They were certainly there in the flames, but God protected them and they were able to escape. So with the great tribulation, God is just as able to protect us as He was able to protect them. Therefore this verse proves nothing about a pre-trib rapture.QUOTE
So which do you prefer, to be alive at the second coming or martyred during the Great Tribulation?
Alive!Sorry but you lost me here.
Who would want to die first?
Unless you are using death as instructions for escaping the tribulation.
But then, the death process of beheading is a tribulation.
So I guess I dont understand the intent of the question.
BTW you might want to read the post, "Who is a Jew" in the prophecy section. Some good stuff there.
3am
QUOTE
Noah was very much in the midst of the storm. God provided a means to protect him through the storm. He did not take him out of the world first.
More importantly is the timing of the deliverance:
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
QUOTE(guysmith @ Nov 20 2007, 10:25 AM) [snapback]131579[/snapback]
3am
There will be two types of Christians at the first resurrection at Christ's advent:
1. Those that have died and will be resurrected.
2. Those that will not taste physical death and will walk into the kingdom.
1 Cor:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.
God has provided instructions for a group of Christians to escape the Great Tribulation and survive physically to the second coming.
So which do you prefer, to be alive at the second coming or martyred during the Great Tribulation?
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Personally I would prefer the will of God. But beyond that (if there is anything else) I also prefer to have scripture that supports my beliefs. If I believe something, you can bet I have scripture that readily backs it up. Not just vague inferences to Gods wrath (which can be, and is, interpretted so many different ways, there aren't enough forums to hold it all) or conclusions from scriptural silence (like, the Church is never mentioned in Revelations after chapter 4). None of which is really instructive in how we should prepare ourselves.
Sure, there may be a pre-trib rapture, but if there is, it certainly isn't taught in the sciptures, nor was it taught by anyone in the early church, ever. If God want's to take me out of this world he is welcome to do so anytime he wishes, but it will be a complete and utter suprise if he does so, that is for certain. Do not feign to have scriptural support, and then refer to words that no where speak of timing.
This is a firm definition of timing:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
And this is firm definition of imminence:
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
With such direct references, why would anyone believe it could be anything other than what is clearly stated.
The words of Christ in Matthew 24 were taught to the Church as regards his second coming, and the rapture.
I will leave off the verse numbers of this passage in order make an illustration about context:
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
A clearer reference to the timing of the rapture, which he had just described, could not be asked for. The day of the Lord, after the tribulation, will be when the rapture will occur.
This is precisely the order of events that Jesus teaches in Matthew 24.
I will leave off the verse numbers of this passage in order make an illustration about context:
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
A clearer reference to the timing of the rapture, which he had just described, could not be asked for. The day of the Lord, after the tribulation, will be when the rapture will occur.
This is precisely the order of events that Jesus teaches in Matthew 24.
As a matter of course, the question always arises, "Isn't the day of the Lord 7 years long?" In other words, doesn;t the day of the Lord comprise the entire 70th week.
The answer is, "No, that is impossible."
Here is why (I posted this in another thread, but it fits nicely here):
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
These cosmic signs are sandwiched between the day of the Lord, and the end of the tribulation.
Let me give you some scripture to help illustrate what is and is not the wrath of God, because as many would probably rightly agree, the day of the Lord IS the day of his wrath.
Isa 2:11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
Isa 2:12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
Isa 2:17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
Isa 2:18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish.
As you can see, the day of the Lord does not fit the criteria of the entire 70th week. Surely, the worship of the anti-christ during that time cannot be said to be "exalting the Lord alone"?
No, the day of the Lord cannot be fit into any part of the 70th week.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Joe 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh for it is nigh at hand;
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
The word here is "bow" (Strongs #935). In all three of these references, the battle of armageddon is described. This implies that it is the battle of armageddon that "kicks off" the day of the Lord.
Joe 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruning hooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Joe 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
It is clear that the gathering of the armies for the battle of armageddon, toward the end of the tribulation, is BEFORE the cosmic signs.
The NT says "the Day of the Lord cometh" as a theif in the night twice (1 Thess. 5:1,2 & 2 Peter 3:10). In both cases the immediate destruction of the wicked occurs. Paul says "sudden destruction" overtakes the wicked, and Peter says the land will be devoured by fire along with the scoffers.
The day of the Lord wrath cannot possibly be any part of the 70th week.
It is after the tribulation and after the cosmic signs of the 6th seal.
The answer is, "No, that is impossible."
Here is why (I posted this in another thread, but it fits nicely here):
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
These cosmic signs are sandwiched between the day of the Lord, and the end of the tribulation.
Let me give you some scripture to help illustrate what is and is not the wrath of God, because as many would probably rightly agree, the day of the Lord IS the day of his wrath.
Isa 2:11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
Isa 2:12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
Isa 2:17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
Isa 2:18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish.
As you can see, the day of the Lord does not fit the criteria of the entire 70th week. Surely, the worship of the anti-christ during that time cannot be said to be "exalting the Lord alone"?
No, the day of the Lord cannot be fit into any part of the 70th week.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Joe 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh for it is nigh at hand;
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
The word here is "bow" (Strongs #935). In all three of these references, the battle of armageddon is described. This implies that it is the battle of armageddon that "kicks off" the day of the Lord.
Joe 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruning hooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Joe 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
It is clear that the gathering of the armies for the battle of armageddon, toward the end of the tribulation, is BEFORE the cosmic signs.
The NT says "the Day of the Lord cometh" as a theif in the night twice (1 Thess. 5:1,2 & 2 Peter 3:10). In both cases the immediate destruction of the wicked occurs. Paul says "sudden destruction" overtakes the wicked, and Peter says the land will be devoured by fire along with the scoffers.
The day of the Lord wrath cannot possibly be any part of the 70th week.
It is after the tribulation and after the cosmic signs of the 6th seal.
I have not said anything nor do I believe in a pre-trib rapture.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
QUOTE(guysmith @ Nov 20 2007, 04:39 PM) [snapback]131647[/snapback]
I have not said anything nor do I believe in a pre-trib rapture.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
Well I gotta hand it to ya, you sure fake it well.
What have I stated that gave you the impression that I am a prebie?
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
QUOTE(guysmith @ Nov 21 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]131827[/snapback]
What have I stated that gave you the impression that I am a prebie?
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
That's a good question. Now that I read over the thread I think I got this thread confused with another.
Sorry, I'm new.
QUOTE(guysmith @ Nov 21 2007, 11:37 AM) [snapback]131827[/snapback]
What have I stated that gave you the impression that I am a prebie?
One you use the word "escape" which is a favorite pre-trib word. That tiggered the quesion I asked way back in the beginning, but you didnt answer. That was the second thing.
But glad to see that you havent been dupped or intimidated by the strong armed tactics of some who attempt to belittle at best or demonize at worse, those who see it otherwise.
God Bless
3am
Superfundy and 3am,
The scriptures contain “escape” information that the prebies interpret to justify the pre-trib rapture. And though they are mistaken concerning the pre-trib rapture, they are sensitive to recognize that God has provided some sort of an escape which posties initially fail to see. I am assuming that you are post-trib resurrectionist.
God has provided a way to physically escape the Great Tribulation period and to walk into the kingdom. This is the gospel that Christ was mentioning when He stated:
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
The scriptures contain “escape” information that the prebies interpret to justify the pre-trib rapture. And though they are mistaken concerning the pre-trib rapture, they are sensitive to recognize that God has provided some sort of an escape which posties initially fail to see. I am assuming that you are post-trib resurrectionist.
God has provided a way to physically escape the Great Tribulation period and to walk into the kingdom. This is the gospel that Christ was mentioning when He stated:
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
"God has provided a way to physically escape the Great Tribulation period and to walk into the kingdom".
Scriptures please. What is the way of escape and where is the event of the "walking" in the scriptures?
Scriptures please. What is the way of escape and where is the event of the "walking" in the scriptures?
QUOTE(Stephen @ Nov 22 2007, 11:55 AM) [snapback]131999[/snapback]
"God has provided a way to physically escape the Great Tribulation period and to walk into the kingdom".
Scriptures please?
Stephen,
The scriptures do not use the term walking, they do however use the term "standing". Concerning the way of escape: http://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000
..scriptures included.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
3am,
Do you read the post at all? I have already stated that I am not pre-trib.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
The scriptures do not use the term walking, they do however use the term "standing". Concerning the way of escape: http://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000
..scriptures included.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
3am,
Do you read the post at all? I have already stated that I am not pre-trib.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
"Where are your Scriptures? You have still not provided one description of a pre-trib rapture."
I have answered you so many time on this subject I cannot count them. Why don't you just say I don't believe them. This would be a simple response on your part. Your debating tactic here sounds like a parrot talking.
I have answered you so many time on this subject I cannot count them. Why don't you just say I don't believe them. This would be a simple response on your part. Your debating tactic here sounds like a parrot talking.
QUOTE(guysmith @ Nov 24 2007, 10:21 AM) [snapback]132470[/snapback]
3am,
Do you read the post at all? I have already stated that I am not pre-trib.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
Do you read the post at all? I have already stated that I am not pre-trib.
In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
Praise the Lord! I saw that.
My post was directed at Stephen, not you.
3am
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