if you believe they are two individuals of this day and are alive please share your thoughts.


do you pray for them.
is there anything you would say to them.

These two have not been identified as of current. They will carry out their witness during the last 1,260 days of the 70th week decreed for national Israel and their location will be in Jerusalem during the rule of satan's beast. Are they alive and on the earth today? It depends upon how close we are to the 70th week. They may or may not be. When they do appear in the streets of Jerusalem they will be highly visible.

Jesus sent 70 out.....two by two.

In the last 42 months of Daniel's 70th week...He will do it again.

Just as John the Baptist came in the "spirit of Elijah" so will this end-times 2 witness ministry will go in the same spirit- confronting the Beast and Harlot (Ahab and Jezebel).

They will be killed for their testimony.

Yes, they are alive today being prepared by God in the wilderness JUST AS He did with John. They are not part of the 501©3 apostate church establishment and they live a self crucified life. True disciples.

Yes, we should pray for them.

brother Jon said

brother jon thankyou for sharing but are you saying the two prophets are 70 multiplied by 2 so seventy sets of two? or 70 people in groups of two?
i dont want to debate this i just want to know what you are saying

I believe the 2 witnesses are alive and both male in their late 20's.

Who are they??? There are many different teachings about their identity and beliefs, either two men (moses,elijah etc) or a corporate body (many witnesses).

One thing i often pick up is people always quote from revelations but dont look at other books in the OT that point to who the two witnesses are, like Haggi and Zechariah, both these books are mytiscal in nature and very hard to understand but it clearly names Joshua and Zerrababel in the same context as the olive trees and lampstands mentioned in revelations...here are some important scriptures that people always overlook:

Zerubbabel the LORD's Signet Ring
20 The word of the LORD came to Haggai a second
time on the twenty-fourth day of the month: 21
"Tell Zerubbabel governor of Judah that I will shake the heavens and the earth. 22 I will overturn royal thrones and shatter the power of the foreign kingdoms. I will overthrow chariots and their drivers; horses and their riders will fall, each by the sword of his brother.
23 " 'On that day,' declares the LORD Almighty,
'I will take you, my servant Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel,'
declares the LORD, 'and I will make you like my signet ring,
for I have chosen you,' declares the LORD Almighty."


Clean Garments for the High Priest
1 Then he showed me Joshua [a] the high priest standing before
the angel of the LORD, and Satan [b] standing at his right side
to accuse him. 2 The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you,
Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not
this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?"
3 Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before
the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, "Take off his filthy clothes."
Then he said to Joshua, "See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put rich garments on you."

5 Then I said, "Put a clean turban on his head." So they put a
clean turban on his head and clothed him, while the angel of the
LORD stood by.

6 The angel of the LORD gave this charge to Joshua: 7 "This is what
the LORD Almighty says: 'If you will walk in my ways and keep my requirements, then you will govern my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you a place among these standing here.

8 " 'Listen, O high priest Joshua and your associates seated before
you, who are men symbolic of things to come: I am going to bring my servant, the Branch. 9 See, the stone I have set in front of Joshua! There are seven eyes [c] on that one stone, and I will engrave an inscription on it,' says the LORD Almighty, 'and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day.


The Gold Lampstand and the Two Olive Trees
1 Then the angel who talked with me returned and wakened me, as a man is wakened from his sleep. 2 He asked me, "What do you see?"
I answered, "I see a solid gold lampstand with a bowl at the top and seven lights on it, with seven channels to the lights. 3 Also there are two olive trees by it, one on the right of the bowl and the other on its left."
4 I asked the angel who talked with me, "What are these, my lord?"

5 He answered, "Do you not know what these are?"
"No, my lord," I replied.

6 So he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty.

7 "What [a] are you, O mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of 'God bless it! God bless it!' "

8 Then the word of the LORD came to me: 9 "The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this temple; his hands will also complete it. Then you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you.

10 "Who despises the day of small things? Men will rejoice when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel.
"(These seven are the eyes of the LORD, which range throughout the earth.)"

11 Then I asked the angel, "What are these two olive trees on the right and the left of the lampstand?"

12 Again I asked him, "What are these two olive branches beside the two gold pipes that pour out golden oil?"

13 He replied, "Do you not know what these are?"
"No, my lord," I said.

14 So he said, "These are the two who are anointed to [b] serve the Lord of all the earth."

AAhhhh....I left this vague for that very reason. Good for you! Let the Spirit of God whisper in your ears....

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Remember that the Book of Revelation is a parable......Jesus starts it with standing in the midst of 7 candlesticks and holding 7 stars...He then EXPLAINS what this REPRESENTS......He teaches in parables in order to HIDE the truth from those who are unworthy and to reveal the truth to those who are truly seeking it.

Are the "2 Witnesses" just 2 individuals? Could they possibly REPRESENT something else?

It's not "Hidden Manna" to just read the surface text...one must go deeper asking the Lord to show them the Spiritual Truth behind the Letter of the Word. If the Pharisees had done this they would have recognized the messiah when He stood before them.

Luke 10:1 Now after these things the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself was about to come.

BrotherJon are you basing your belief on your own personal experience you have had with the Lord?

Do you believe the Lord has revealed this to you??

Scripture is not open to private interpretation but you seem to base alot of your belief on your own private experiences..

If so what do you have to say about all the other people who have had dreams visions and revelations of the two witnesses being two people and not a coporate body?? Have they all been deceived by the "traditions of men" or by false visions/dreams/experiences?? And when i refer to other people i dont mean just people alive today but the body of evidence throughout history recorded by many churches??

Please explain the OT references to the two witnesses that i posted (Zech and Haggi) and how that would fit into your own personal revelations that you are teaching... specifically the connection between the third temple alluded too both in Zech,Haggi and Revelations.

These are indeed the last days, and there are many false prophets how can everybody who hears your message be certain that you are not deceived yourself??



Revelations 11:

1I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.

- holy city.....?? isnt that jerusalem?

3And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.

- two olive trees and two lampstands ..this is covered in Zech with mention of both Zerrababel and Joshua

5If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
7Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

- where also their Lord was crucified - who is their Lord? It is the Lord Jesus Christ - where was he crucified?? in Jersuleam

9For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

- these two prophets

11But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

13At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

- again there is mention of a specific city - the holy city - and an earthquake killing seven thousand people.

14The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.


I hope your not deceived

Thanks...I sense you are a true brother and have the right spirit so I will answer your questions.

this is not my private interpretation...thousands of Christians have come into this understanding of the corporate nature of the characters of revelation. You said it yourself that the 2 witness include many things...Joshua (the high priest) Zerrubabel (the builder -born from Babylon) as well as Moses or Elijah- or Enoch.....The Old Testament AND the New Testament are 2 witnesses as well....the 2 Olive trees and the 2 candlesticks...BUT does this mean that the only interpretation can be 2 physical men doing these exploits around the world?

Christ said YOU shall be my witnesses...what if He is referring to HIS BODY of end times believers who will go out into the world in the power and anointing of Moses and Elijah...they ARE Zerrubabel-building the City of God- the people of God AND they are also Joshua the High Priest who brings the Blood of the Lamb to those who will repent...so we can see many types of this in scripture. All I'm saying is that I expect there to be a deeper revelation than what we can easily read in the surface text due to the fact that Christ hides His truth in parables and promises to give the Hidden Manna to those who He deems worthy.

I'm may be deceived....and so may you. That's why we need to devour the SUM of thy WORDS...to gain spiritual sight. I could easily just read the letter and stop there...but it's much deeper than what most are aware of....is the Harlot a single woman or a group?

Is the woman on the moon a single woman or a group?

Most agree they are corporate.....The 144,000 that come out of their mother to stand with the Lamb on Mt. Zion are a group called the Man Child....Christ IN His Body of MATURE disciples.

I don't judge anyone's level of revelation...not my job, brother. But i can share what i feel the Lord has shown me and MANY others who have rejected much of the traditional end-times teachings that are leavened in the churches of today.

I've done due diligence for 25 years in my studies and am living a very crucified life.....I ask the Lord to correct my false understandings and deliver me from ego and unteachable attitudes. I pray you do the same so that we will able to humble to what's written in the scriptures.

Blessings to you,

Bro. Jon

Also- One correction to your post.
Jesus was NOT crucified IN Jerusalem....read it very carefully.

He was taken OUTSIDE the city walls.....

Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned without the camp.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered without the gate.
Heb 13:13 Let us therefore go forth unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Jerusalem was never called Sodom or Egypt...the WORLD was...the WORLD in general is the Great City---Babylon the Great is the whole world.

Christ was outside Jerusalem and crucified in the WORLD--exactly where the thousands of end-times disciples will be killed. ALL over the world and be seen by people all over the world..Not on CNN....LOL...but look right out into the streets and you'll see them being killed as they witness for the Word of God.

More "corporate" theology junk ..... what a gas. 2 = 2 ..... not 70.

"Jesus was NOT crucified IN Jerusalem....read it very carefully."

A carefully crafted statement here. This is nonsense. Let the reader beware.

11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

The outskirts of Jerusalem were certainly part of the city, and Sodom and Egypt are used symbolically to describe Jerusalem just as in other passages of scripture. We have a blatent attempt to deceive here by the poster and the reader should take note.

The poster is deliberately attempting to skew the meaning of Revelation 11:8 for the purpose of supporting "corporate" theology and anyone can see readly this twist. He is relying upon one's lack of broad scriptural knowledge in order to hoodwink the reader into believing his story.

the preface was 2 individuals. i see this is turning into a debate and not sharing there are like 200 other threads i think this same argument has been made is there anyone who wants to share?
stephan
i didnt ace math but i do know 2 =2
i simply wont respond cuz the post 2x70 doesnt fit the thread
not to offend anyone.
so anyone who believes 2 individuals of this day?

You know Stephen, you are the only person on this forum with this attitude. Its like a nervous twitch you have.
Just relax and be part of the forum. Make your point like anybody else and stop this childish behaviour. All this labeling of anyone that does not agree with you is tiring to watch.

You have to face the facts: There are people who disagree with you. Shouting and calling them names, will not make them run to you . In fact, even if you had any truth to share, those people cannot take it from you. Why would anybody take anything from somebody that is disagreeable. You are not even close to behaving in a manner which is acceptable.

Every time I read something of yours, after somebody gave their opinion, you are ready with a little label, so that you can break then down in the eyes of the other readers. I for one am not impressed by it, it shows a inability to communicate on a mature level and an inability to behave in a mature manner on a public forum.

You do not have to answer, because I already know your answers. They will be defensive .


C

Some dogs bark at the moon.

I do not like the false doctrines (and they certainly are) that you are spreading around and feel accountable to the Lord for exposing them to others. We are talking about a matter of life and death here. My comments are for no other purpose. I must do this.

um is there a thread where you can fight this is not debate (not for those easily offended) this was just a pole and sharing

ASU asks:

"so anyone who believes 2 individuals of this day?"

It is possible that these two humans could be alive today. Obviously it depends upon how close we are to the beginning of the time of the end. I have no knowledge of who they are if they are in fact on the earth at this time. There are those who have claimed the identity, but the few that I am aware of were not or are not for many reasons.

I do believe that the scriptures are clear about their location and the time frame for their public witness. They will most likely be national Israelites and they will be protected supernaturally during their service of 1,260 days. They will also be mortals because they will be killed physically and will need to be resurrected and translated. Because of this I do not think they will be past historical figures ...... although the Lord can do anything if He chooses.

Hey Stephen,

The Bible says that we will know them by their love.

Is that what your doing?

Try to be a little more objective when you point out your brothers so called false doctrines. What false doctrines do you believe? Or here is a better question, what lies do you believe are true and what are they? Can you name them? Be humble brother or God will have to judge you with the same mesure that you judge. For the record, I don't believe what brother Jon says either but I won't attack him for Jesus. If you need to defend your truth, do it in a kind and loving way. Ok?

What if everyone on this forum responded to each other the way you do? Think about it.

Your friend and brother,
Eliyahoo

Hey EL,

You might be doing the same thing that you say I do??? Possible? I am against the current teachings of "corporate" theology and will expose them for other readers to beware on every turn. This may or may not be your persuasion, but I would tell you the same if it is. This I must do. I do know the "lies" put forth by the cult ..... item by item .... for sure. I also have posted on this forum for a long time with a brief absence so I know much about who is who and what they are posting. I would say that your intervention on this issue might be a bit presumptious. My normal stride is to post sound understanding and interpretation of the visions of the Bible prophets for those who have an interest and I have no other purpose except to occasionally expose deceptive doctrine when I see it ..... and I always use the Bible's evaluation for this purpose and give warning to other readers ..... they then have to make their own personal evaluations. I have no interest in debating, but will respond to questions from posters if I think they are valid and serve a purpose.

I will also occasionally confront identifiable false doctrine directly, briefly, and with candor if I think it is necessary ..... but only if the doctrine is laced with deception, particularly regarding bottom line salvation. I will sometimes apply a hard nosed response where I know the poster and see a need for it. I do this for the benefit of the poster and other readers ..... which may not be accepted ..... but never for personal ambition or for selling my views. I actually do not care what others think or believe with regard to the interpretation of the prophetic scriptures and have no personal bias toward those who see things differently. Time spent posting is significant to me and I do not make a hobby out of forum posting ..... but just to contribute information related primarily to the understanding and application of Bible prophecy. This area can be critical in relation to one's salvation because many organizations have used it for the purpose if capturing and maintaining exclusive membership. I personally have no affiliation with any denominational line of Christianity. So there you go ..... I am not a "nice" guy, but very serious about the business of conveying the Lord's Word to believers and unbelievers alike. I also have a cult "busting" background and this may be reflected in my posts on occasion.

To think that there will not be conflict generated on a worldwide internet Bible forum is unrealistic. There are all sorts of entries with different views and different objectives. This is just the way it is. No "pie in the sky" option in every case. It is a brutal world and one's eternal life is at stake in this drama. No fooling around. The effective witness for the Lord is a diplomat ..... but must also be a "dragon" slayer (literally) ..... and must know when to be one or the other based upon the case in point. An easy job .... I do not think so.

We have some things to consider in the Word about the Two Witnesses.
There are many interpretations, much has been taught out of tradition
or theory...

The fact is, none of us know and I don't think the Two Witness of God
will anounce themselves, for it is utmost humility for what constitutes
the two and love that speaks as a sword in the hands of this ministry.

We have clues...and more will be revealed to those that have eyes
to see and ears to hear.

It seems to me that we should all hope it revealed that we are a part
of this ministry, not by false piety, or dividing a word falsely, or
judging out of pride or religious spirit, or intellect, no. we can all
stop now, get on our knees and repent...for this ministry is so very
close as we see the signs in the natural, there are many that see
the signs in the spirit.

My thoughts...this ministry will not ask for money, or have
a building for the temple of God reside inside, and there will not
be newspaper events and scheduled miracles. This ministry will not
have a staff, but God will raise up what is needed as they walk
in faith, for His rod and staff shall comfort them...o please, Lord
help us to love one another...

Many will not even give it a second thought, yet many will realize
that Jesus is close at hand, for this ministry will not point to themselves,
and will lay down there lives for the ministry of Jesus Christ.

The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Walking with Him is the utmost importance, who He is, knowing Him.
How do we know Him? How to really get to know Him? The Word,
prayer, and worship. Then we are to walk humbly with our God.

We come here to discuss ideas for we all come from different places,
and backgrounds, and circumstances, and cultures, and times. We
may all have pieces, or not...but God, God, God can teach a
teachable heart that is not puffed up and will lay down in humilty to
really hear the truth from the heart of God.

This is so important, pray for the ministry of the Two Witnesses. It
is important enough that it is in the Word as part of the end times
countdown of signs and wonders. And we may not all agree on
what we are seeing, or what is happening, so that speaks to me
that not all will be willing to "see" or "hear", why? because this ministry
will be dispised.

We are living out the prophetic moment and on a turning page, so
it is unfolding right now, before us; today, tomorrow...
what does that matter if we keep our focus on Jesus?

Pray for this forum and anywhere that two or more are gathered,
that God will feed us truth, so we can discern what is good to
eat and what is not.

Blessings,
Signet

Just a thought" How do the deceived KNOW they are deceived ? When the deceived cries out against something it is always against those who do not share their deception. They do not think they are deceived, they ALWAYS think they are right.

I think the Biblical way is to Eph 4:15 but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him, who is the head, even Christ; So IF you have the truth (I am taking to everybody and not just to Stephen) then please share what you have, but do not take a place of authority over the believers where you want to shout everybody down, who , according to YOUR understanding in wrong.
People sincerely believe what they believe. They do not come here to "spread a false doctrine"
No Christian wakes up in the morning ans say: Oh, Good day to spread some evil teaching"


This IS a debating forum, and it is good and pleasant to talk with the bretheren , without being spat upon by some all the time.
SO , please, keep telling us what you believe, and allow others to do the same, without people being sacred that somebody will call them names or label them.

When I last look, we still had freedom of speech

C

Yes they have been Identified. God created them for the purpose that they are preparing for. He knows full well who they are where they are and what they are doing this very minute. The brood of evil doers will never know who they are since their identity is hidden in Christ. They will start the great tribulation at the beginning of their ministry. When they are rejected by the Christian Church who they are sent to. Remember they come wearing burlap sacks with bald heads.

Signet.... GOOD WORD! Thank you for your reflection of the Father. You have spent much time with Him... and He is shining! Thank you for you precious heart... but your boldness to speak the Truth!

Your Friend in Christ,
Val
Messiahiscoming

Just a thought" How do the deceived KNOW they are deceived ? When the deceived cries out against something it is always against those who do not share their deception. They do not think they are deceived, they ALWAYS think they are right.

I think the Biblical way is to Eph 4:15 but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him, who is the head, even Christ; So IF you have the truth (I am taking to everybody and not just to Stephen) then please share what you have, but do not take a place of authority over the believers where you want to shout everybody down, who , according to YOUR understanding is wrong.
People sincerely believe what they believe. They do not come here to "spread a false doctrine"
No Christian wakes up in the morning ans say: Oh, Good day to spread some evil teaching" They might not all have the whole truth, but then again we are told in the Bible that, that would be the case.


This IS a debating forum, and it is good and pleasant to talk with the bretheren , without being spat upon by some all the time.
SO , please, keep telling us what you believe, and allow others to do the same, without people being sacred that somebody will call them names or label them.

When I last looked, we still had freedom of speech

C

Boy!



Anyways....I believe that these two are real people, I know what the word says, and believe inorder for them to die in the streets as the word says they would have to be real men. I also believe that many parts of the word has the real life means, person means, as well as spiritual means. This one being real.

I believe that will be a real thing that will happen.

where is shy1?

I do not see an option for what I believe: So maybe the closest would be, they are grown and some small and some know each other, and some do not.
I believe that the Two Witnesses are representational of the 1) Gentile church and 2) Jewish remnant.

These two will go out into the great city Babylon, (the whole world) and they will testify to the lost . Out of their mouths will go the unleavened Bread :The Word of God, like fire. God will anoint these, last day saints with the Holy Spirit so that they will speak and so shall it be. They will bring judgement on a rebellious world . Many will come to the Lord through their ministry , but many will hate them and will eventually start killing many of the people of God.

Hello everyone,

This is my first post to this forum.

Concerning the two witnesses: I believe that they are alive today, and (like Moses) that they know God has a plan for them but they wait for his timing and direction.

In Yehoshua,
guysmith

Welcome!

my thoughts...

i believe that these two are representational of other things,
that they represent the two tablets, and both Jew and Gentile believers,
both Covenants, old and new...just from looking at two's, differences
and likenesses.

not only that...it takes two to witness God, actually, as we are sent
to witness to another what God says, and does, and so at least two:
we speak and we listen as God delivers the message.

two in unity, to me, also speaks of the two sticks of Ezekiel,
and speaks of two swords being enough...two united...as in prayers
of agreement. this agreement seems to be to me, so entwined with the
imprint of God and requires such trust and intimacy that union/marriage
with God's purpose is utmost.

when you look at marriage, it speaks of becoming one flesh...

Christ comes in the body and comes for His bride...marriage supper/union.

we are taught that we become one new man in Christ, so this speaks
to me also of the personal man and the corporate body. how else
can the body be singular?

i believe that these are individuals as representatives or symbols of corporate
fullness, fullfilment of an exact moment as numbered by the Lord for that
next page of unfolding the Word. Prophetic word as being revealed in many
lives exemplified by the ministry of the Two Witnesses. I also have a sense
of scales, one side with mercy and the other judgement; as God is perfect
love, hence issues perfect justice.

i agree that Revelation is very symbolic, speaks of systems, governments,
yet, i understand that it also speaks of real people in real situations carrying
out the scenarios that make up these beautifully Word- painted stories that
we know as the Bible. we have both imagery and personal lives that have
carried the ark of Christ within, and have travailed under the watchful eye of God,
as examples of His purposes being worked out through individuals for the body to
understand His ways.

i think that is still the pattern. personal/corporate...in the prophetic voice,
these cannot easily be disguished because the voice of God so penetrates
the individual for the corporate that the Word cannot be extracted from
the messenger only released at God's voice.

i can appreciate other viewpoints because i don't really know by proof
that i know without a revelation of deeper understanding.
and i believe this is yet, a hidden thing, as hidden with Christ in God.

so, i believe, Lord. Father, help me get out of the way that i can hear
You, only You.


blessings,
signet

Well put Signet !

We all know that God does not break His Scriptures: Deu 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth

So in the end time the "man" here is the Beast Kingdom that contains ALL men who is outside the Kingdom. God will raise up His church and remnant of Israel to witness against the "man of sin"

: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall a matter be established.

So again, God will NOT break His word but will send out these tow groups against the group of unbelievers
C

Wow,Signet.

I wish I could word my posts as gracefully as you. I'm a blunt instrument like the pounding of an anvil but your writing style is almost poetic and while revealing truth that could offend, the reader can sense foundational understandings that carry wisdom. Well done.

blessings upon you!

signet

of those who believe they are 1+1 persons/human and male female.
why do you believe this?

They are two men. One Jew and One Gentile. One to present the Law and One to present Grace. There is no way God is going to have a woman represent him in this capacity. It has been made abudundantly clear that Eve was decieved....

But even apart from the deception which could possible come into play, the two witnesses are going to die a brutal death at the hand of satan himself. God is not going to let satan attack a woman with savage brutality and drag her blood stained and broken body through Jerusalem.....God is a gentleman!

I just had to interject here real quick. The only reason the two witnesses are male is because the prophecy says it. Females will not be devinely protected during the coming great tribulation on believers. There will also be atrocities committed against women and infants in Jacob's trouble. Millions of women and men died horrible deaths during the persecution of Christians by Rome. There is now no difference between Jew and Gentile, male and female, free or slave, for those in Christ. And unfortunately persecution is gender blind.

God may be a Gentleman, but there are many men who aren't.

(supporting scriptures can be found at grandunifiedprophecies.blogspot.com )

O

um your saying that God would not use a woman in this capacity because Eve was decieved. ? what was adam? dumber, by following ok just kidding.. but really if you follow that thought the core belief is God wont use a woman because of sin. HOWEVER. God though all His children HAVE sinned SAVES and uses them ALL. becasue she was decieved she can no longer be used to a certain capacity but GOD RESTORES ALL TO THEIR FULL PURPOSE and ORIGIONAL PLACE and WHOLE BEING just as if the sin had never been there.maybe i misunderstood but thats what your statment sounds like.

God has called many a woman to be martyr i dont know if you believe joan of arc but she was treated brutally. and many woman are raped thats brutal many woman are beaten and tortured for their beliefs in other contries.

God uses who God chooses.

anyhow is there anyone who voted (i believe they are male/female) who would share why they think this?

do show scripture thankyou-

1 Titus 2:11 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

So, Paul tells us that in a leadership position, women should not have authority over men.

Zecharia tells us of two lampstands named Joshua and Zerrubabel that prefigure the two witnesses.


Not that it's any macho thing. This is how God has planned it.

The beast is very tricky one on one and will try and be your best friend. He will observe you for a long time and make sure he knows all of your weaknesses. Then he will feed your flesh so that you will like him. For a devoted believer, his best shot is at pride. To give them seemingly small victories so that they will be less reliant on God and get them puffed up.
He will typically be good natured while he's doing it, then he'll go for the kill and any misconceptions you had about him being good or nice will vanish immediately. You have treat him ruthlessly and not fall for his subtle nature.
He might say in complimentary fashion, "You look like a thinking man."
Trying to Pander to your own nature and so you will not be reliant upon God's Divine protection. He does not attack like you think he attacks. He is subtle, all the while, having something else in mind altogether. He can control a whole room and instantly cause confusion and make you look like a goat and himself like a superhero. That is the beast. He's good. He's been doing it for 6,000 years.
When one scheme doesn't work, he'll switch schemes. He has no problem lying and is excellent at it. He will even pander to your sense of compassion and have the nerve to say, "I've had such a hard life."
He has no problem talking about concepts...one of his favorite is: "I try be as good a person as I can."
When you hear something like that come out of the most wicked person in the universe it gives you pause, especially if you have to respond to it. He is very good at what he does and considers himself the 98% carpenter. So, given that he figures he's tripped up 98% of all humanity since day one, you can imagine he's incredibly good at what he does.
He's oddball to to talk to and nothing is fair about the conversation. Luckily he typically gives himself away, because he knows things about you he shouldn't know and eventually tips his hat.
Of course, most would account it to a deja vu experience and let it slip right by without notice. The first time you encounter him, you'll feel like a marionette puppet who barely escaped. Then he'll attack you at night in stealth mode until you can't breath or stand. If you don't have a full tool chest of spiritual warfare tools that are fine tuned and know how to command thru Jesus armies of Holy Angels and saints, you will die.
He plays for keeps and the two witnesses are #1 and #2 on his hit list. They know how have him buckled, hurt, injured and how to talk to him. They have encountered him many times and mostly with regret because he will just plain wear you out. In the tribulation he is going to bring up armies against them, trying to kill them, but they will have pro actively surrounded themselves with twice as many Holy Angels to hold off the attacks. It is not the two witnesses themselves that have power. It is their faith that God will provide the needed warriors to win the battle and their boldness to ask for the warriors and stage the war.
Spiritual battles are fought in the invisible and let me tell you, it hurts if you start to lose because blackness will come upon you as you've never felt before and your body will feel like it got ran over by a train.

Is that really womens work?

That is right allshookup. If there was scripture it would contradict this following scripture. Anyone who has crucified the flesh with all of its passions and desires and walks in the Spirit of Christ might be and probably will be one of His witnesses.

Galatians 3
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 5
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

patmos i will not argue with scripture
i do not believe a woman is to be a "pastor" etcetera.

However being over a man and talking straight to him is two different things.

if you were to follow this thought the way you say you believe you would also be saying a woman cannot share the Gospel YIKES now were getting into some REAL trouble.

Who was Debborah a Judge. a Judge is in a position of Discernment Prophetic Annointing.

the Lord does call woman to prophesy. this is an eye to eye ministry

teaching pastoring and apostleing is over another ministries
evangelism and prophecy is direct hearing what the Spirit is saying at the time. its not the messengers words of what the Lord showed him/her but the LORD's these are eye to eye ministries
the other three can also be done propheticly but are almost always over another.

by the way im not trying to preach to you. im telling you what the Lord gave me prophetically
with respect allshookup

THE LORD is the same yesterday today and forever.

patmos

NO it is God's work.

Greater is Him that is in me(us)(women) than he that is in the world.

That's a good question! I don't know what made me miss this! Actually, it was sick kids again!

I believe they are alive and probably know each other. I'd expect them to be about mid-life--maybe somewhere near 50. They may be living their normal lives, even in separate places, waiting on the moment the Lord has decided for them to start their ministry. I haven't seen two people out there actively doing what the two will do according to Revelation 11, but I'm guessing that it's getting pretty close to time. My thought is that it may be as little as a year or two or as much as 10 or 20, but I'm hoping for the shorter time. There are so many false witnesses out there who claim to be the two that it must be getting time for the real ones.

I have a hard time with the burlap/sackcloth and shaved heads idea. I've seen scriptures posted about shaved heads and such, but Revelation 11 doesn't say that, and I think it may apply to somebody else. I don't believe the Savior shaved his head for his ministry, and I think the ministry of these two is patterned after his. I love to picture them in long tunics/robes (could be sackcloth . . . ) with longer hair and beards like the Savior is often pictured. All this is just my own personal thought, not scripture about how they will look. I like to picture them the way I picture Jesus.

Now I need to read through the whole topic and see what I missed!
shy1


Now why couldn't I say it this concisely!? And welcome to the forum!

the burlap, sackcloth, and shaved heads represent total grieving and
humility...it also points to complete dependance upon God, and it
also speaks as a type of John the Baptizer, prepare ye the way...

signet

They will walk the streets of Jerusalem and will defy satan's beast during his occupation of Israel for 42 months (last half of the 70th week decreed). Their powers will make them "beast" proof during their service to the Lord. Then the beast will kill them and the Lord will demonstrate His resurrection power in the face of the beast and his followers.

Right and now for the Biblical version:

Lets see what the "great city " is .

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
Now we have to see
1) Is is Jerusalem, because the text names "where also their Lord was crucified (It certainly at first looks like Jerusalem
2 ) Was Jesus crucified inside or outside Jerusalem?
3) The text indicates: a spiritual explanation , because is actually says: spiritually called
4) Which city is a type and shadow for "Sodom and Egypt"

Here is a scripture that talks about Jerusalem (the real Jerusalem) but it is not a match, its ALMOST a match:

Jer 23:14 In the prophets of Jerusalem also I have seen a horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies; and they strengthen the hands of evil-doers, so that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them become unto me as Sodom and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

This is not it, because it talks about the spiritual sin of "adultery" (receiving the word of man mixed with the Word of God. Word being "seed" in the Bible)

So , it leaves Babylon, another city and also the ONLY city in Rev that is called the "great city"

Babylon is called the "great city" 10 times in Revelation. Jerusalem is not called that once.

In type and Jesus was crucified outside the city (in spiritual Babylon), because that is where the sin is: In "Babylon"
Jerusalem in type is HOLY, it represents GOD'S PEOPLE.

Joh 19:20 This title therefore read many of the Jews, for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city; and it was written in Hebrew, and in Latin, and in Greek.

NEAR to the city, but not IN the city.Exo 29:14 But the flesh of the bullock, and its skin, and it dung, shalt thou burn with fire without the camp: it is a sin-offering.

Lev 4:12 even the whole bullock shall he carry forth without the camp unto a clean place, where the ashes are poured out, and burn it on wood with fire: where the ashes are poured out shall it be burnt.

Lev 16:27 And the bullock of the sin-offering, and the goat of the sin-offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall be carried forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.

Jesus too, was sacrificed "without the camp" in "Babylon" the "great city".
In other words: He died FOR THE WORLD.
So He was sacrificed IN THE WORLD.

It is Jerusalem ..... in Israel ..... where the beast will occupy and rule for 42 months during the time of the end. Jerusalem is called Sodom and Egypt in scripture because of the city's intransigence toward the Lord. The outskirts of the city are part of it and not to be separated as something else. The Lord's two prophets will walk the streets of Jerusalem ..... the believing remnant of national living in "Judea" (Israel) will flee when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy "place" and the Lord will protect them in the eastern Jordanian wilderness during the reign of Satan's beast. All of this activity will take place in Israel ..... in the Middle East ..... at the time of the end.

No, this time around God is including the whole world.
Its simple: Jerusalem is God's people
Babylon is NOT God's people


Now read Revelation and see.

C

I don't think so. Your problem is that your organization's teaching does not recognize Israel's place as a national entity located in the Middle East at the time of the end. This role has obviously been appropriated and this is a form of replacement theology. This thinking is against the Bible's clear teaching on the subject.

Again you are mistaken . Israel (national) is in fact very important in these days. They are there in the exact place where they must be prophetically. They are slowly being surrounded and their land is being taken away from them

But what you are missing, is that all that is happening to them, is also happening to us (Spiritual Israel)

What you do not understand,because somebody has scared you with so called "replacement theology" that you have had a shut down concerning the link between Israel and Spiritual Israel. You are ONLY operating in the type and shadow and you cannot see the fulfillment of it. THAT is what is stopping you.

You are failing to see:1Co 10:11 Now these things happened unto them (Israel)by way of example; and they were written for our(spiritual Israel) admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages (plural, because we are now also at the end of such an age) are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

So why the warning at the end of this scripture?
Because God does not want YOU and I to miss this.If you MISS this, you WILL FALL.

I can not agree with you at all on this issue. You are mixing national Israel, the nation's, and the church (your's I think) in order to arrive at your views. The scriptures do not do this ..... in fact, just the opposite. And am I exposing replacement theology because I am afraid of it? ..... hardly, I don't think so. This is one of the main diversions from the scriptures used by "cult" type organizations to support their false doctrines. Both Jew and Gentile can be incorporated into the Body of Christ (the Church) and this is based upon matters of salvation only. But the scriptures also separate Israel and the nations with regard for national identity and this is a far different classification than for the Church. Israel as a nation in prophecy is not the Church. The student of the scriptures needs to know when to apply appropriately. For example Revelation 12, has nothing to do with the Church at the time of the end, but only with satan, his fallen angelics, the Lord, national Israel, and the believing remnant of national Israel who will flee into the eastern wilderness for the Lord's protection during the reign of satan's beast. The others of the believing remnant of the nation of national Israel, still in other nation's at the time, will be the next targets for the beast. Most of the Gentiles of the nations will not repent and will be killed during the tribulation of the Lord's judgments ..... billions. They will die in unbelief and lost forever.