Greetings all:

I have a question pertaining to this particular verse in Acts 19, highlighted in red:

13Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." 14Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15(One day) the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" 16Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

Now, in my mind, an evil spirit can not tell the whole truth, so my question is, where's the lie in the evil spirit's statement? Another question that bothers me is that since they (the 7 sons of Sceva) had use Joshua's name in commanding the evil spirit out, I would think that the evil spirit would be obliged to come out but instead it had turn around and beat and overpower them all, why was this evil spirit able to do so, in spite of the command by Joshua's name? Can someone please explain this? I'd appreciate it.

Sincerely yours,

Wendy

Greetings all:

After much prayerful contemplation and meditation on this, I've come up with several possible explanations. What I've come up with is a bit unsettling, to say the least. I have far more questions than ever before now.

1. Like I've mentioned earlier, I'm convinced that if the 7 sons of Sceva had just uses Joshua's name in their invocation, instead of adding Paul's name to it, the evil spirit would have been obliged to come out of the man. It appears that by adding Paul's name somehow made the situation for the demon-possessed man and for the 7 sons a whole lot worse than it needs to be. Why is that?

2. I've noticed that the evil spirit had used the birth name of Joshua but not the birth name of Paul, which is Saul. This is a bit susicpious to me in itself.

3. Since it would be quite understandable for an evil spirit to recognize another spirit, which at that time, Joshua is one, so just how the evil spirit was able to recognize Paul, who wasn't a spirit at the moment? Did Paul and the evil spirit previously met and how? By saying that "Joshua I know and Paul I know.." the evil spirit is implying that they're both on equal status footing, which obviously can't be. You can't have it both ways.

4. The name, Sceva, means in Hebrew, "left-handed". I keep getting this picture of Judgement day when the Lord Joshua says to those who are on the left side, "Depart from me. I never knew you" even tho there were those who had called him, "Lord, Lord". (Matt.7:21-23) Yes, I am saying that it's possible that all those who professes their faith in Joshua of whom Paul preaches may be doomed for this, since Paul had preaches an ant-law, grace-only Messiah gospel, not "by the law and grace" Messiah gospel, such as Peter, James and John had preached. Thus Paul's teaching may be of falsehood. How else would the evil spirit was able to overcome the invocation and gave the 7 sons an bloody beating of which they ran out of the house naked and wounded, even WHEN they had used Joshua's name? Joshua, blessed is He who did His Father's will, upheld the Law not only in His life, but also in His death, in His resurrection and in His ascension. He expects no less of his disciples and of his followers. Usage of His name only should have been (and always will be) more than enough to dispels the demons out, without adding anyone else. This is why this is so unsettling. I pray that I am wrong but if I am right about this, it will be confirmed.

Sincerely yours,

Wendy

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.


"Usage of His name only should have been (and always will be) more than enough to dispels the demons out..."

Just this part of the statement alone is not true.

the disciples could not cast out a demon possessed boy and they asked the Lord why they could not do it... and he referred to three things... faith (if it were only a grain of mustard seed) and that "this kind" only goeth out by prayer and fasting.

We know from the Lord's statement that many will be able to cast out devils - thru his name... AND that the Lord will tell them that He does not know them ... that He never did.

We also know from Mt 13 the first parable that the stony heart and the thorny heart recieve the seed... but will fall away either because they do not - cannot root themselves into the Word or because the cares of this world override their desire to be deep into the Word. In other words there is a good possiblity that 2/3s of the people that sit next to you in church... have not truly tasted of the Lord. Can they cast out devils? yeah... perhaps they do. Can they (poorly rooted) fall away? Scripture says so.

But these brothers... casting out... they didn't have a relationship with Jesus... that's how I see it because of the phrase "whom Paul preaches".



"Paul had preaches an ant-law, grace-only Messiah gospel" Paul was not anti-law. Paul taught that the Law cannot save you. That only Jesus can save you. Even the Savior of mankind used the law to bring people to understand their sinfulness, to repent, to bring sinners to the eternal life saving Blood of the Lamb.


My own personal belief is also that one cannot cast out a demon - if it is in the Lord's will for that demon to do what it is doing. I think that cuz at that point you've stepped out of the Lord's will... and you've begun to do what you want to do. (not "you" personally ... "you" in general) I'm thinking of Paul... and the thorn in his side... he was buffetted by Satan... and the Lord told Paul - my grace is sufficient for you.

Thanks guys...good teaching. We're studying angels and demons in our Sunday school class. Ya...Just cause Paul did it they thought Jesus name was some kind of magic wand they could just grab and use to be big guys too. But it didn't work.

I know a women who at 11 years old saw the demons flee as she spoke the words her Sunday school teacher had just spoken of the week before. She was left alone to babysit a half a dozen small children. Her parents said they were going to the store but never came back..(they had gone drinking) The devils manifested themselves. She saw them! and gathered the children into her arms (remember...this is an 11 year old girl) and spoke the words her Sunday school teacher had given. She saw them instantly flee! WOW!

The greatest Son of Man Son of GOD to ever walk the face of the Earth had to show great restraint...he only did what the Father sent him to do...nothing less, nothing more.

Lead by the Spirit of Our Father whom art in Heaven.

His Name IS JESUS, the beginning and the end, The Alpha and the Omega. Amen


I believe your story Miki....I believe God's spirit is being poured out right now.

The most important thing though is to Wait upon the LORD...he shows us when, where and how, as he did this girl, he revealed to her. Praise Jesus...he loves us.

hi interestig thoughts here.

saying the name of Jesus does not have any power in itself, when beleivers cast out demons in Jesus name it is not only about saying the name of Jesus but also about being IN the name of Jesus themselves by faith wherein we have our authoirty. Also there is nothing that says that everything that an evil spirit says must be a lie or that everything they say must come with a lie, we see that this is not true because many times we saw the devils say to jesus that they knew he was the Son of God. there is no lie in that, they also said to him have you come to torment us before the time, there is no lie in that either. when satan spoke to God in zech and job, there is no lie seen there either. IT is not that they must lie always or must add a lie to everything they say, but it is that because they are liars we do not trust what they say.

evil spirits are subject to us in Christ not because we throw the name of Jesus around, but because we are believers who walk in faith and have Christ living IN us and we live IN him. because this is not so for unbeleivers, there is no authoirty in the words of them even if they say jesus jesus jesus.

when they said Jesus we know and paul we know, it did not mean it was ok to use the name of paul to cast them out, but that because paul walked with Christ IN Christ they know him.

hope this helps

As stated above, this depends on our authority in Jesus. In order to have authority to drive out a demon in his name, we have to be in a right relationship with Him.

There is also another possibility here. God the father NEVER overrides the free will of any person. NEVER. Jesus NEVER did either. That is the only reason people end up in hell, seperated from God. It is by their choice, not by his.

So if the person who is possessed does not want the spirit to go it does not have to go. If I want someone to be delivered from an evil spirit, it is usually because I know that it will be for that persons own good. So my motive is right. I want them to be free and be closer to God. However if the person is not willing to be free, and I persist in telling the evil spirit to flee, I am in a dangerous position.

In effect I am telling God that my will for the person to be free is more important than that persons will that does not want to be free. I am telling God that since my intentions are for that persons good, and their choice in wanting the spirit to stay is harmful to them, therefore God should do my will and force the spirit to leave that person.

But God NEVER overrvides a persons free will. What I am doing then is trying to make God impose my will on another person because I know that my will is for that persons own good. That is very dangerous. God does not operate that way and neither should we.

I don't know if this makes sense. I know what I want to say but have difficulty in getting it to come out right. We can very easily allow good intentions for another pesron to cause us to try and impose our will on them. We know it is for their own good, why can't they see it? So we pray and ask God to make the evil spirit leave the person so that then they will be able to see it is for their own good.

But this causes me to be trying to manipulate God and manipulate another person. That is a sin no matter how good my intentions are.

So in this story, I see two possibilities.
1) The sons of Sceva had no relationship with God or Jesus themselves, therefore they had no power or authority over the evil spirit.
2) It is not clear from the verses if the person actaully wanted the evil spirit to leave. If he did not want it to leave, then it did not have to leave. The Sons of Seceva were trying to impose their will on another person and using God's name and Pauls name to justify imposing their will on another person.

Hi David. Cool stuff.

Question.. what if the other person doesn't know they have a demon?

damo7


i can only answer this to how i see this for my self and to how this verse in acts was explained to me my home fellow ship group did a study on this and i found it very intresting

as a new christian starts to grow and starts to walk in the gifts god has given them the enemy is going to do what ever he can to hold the new christian back sometimes he will attac us threw our dreams and some times he will also use our old friends

when jesus said to his disciples you can do what i am about to teach you he was not joking but they had to have faith as these guys were normal men and jesus had to constantly rebuke them for their lack of faith

we see this in the gospels

matthew 18 a boy is heald

14 and when they had come to the multitude a man came to him kneeling down to him and saying

15 lord have mercy on my son for he is an epelptic and suffers severely for he often falls into the fire
and often into the water

16 so i bought him to your disciples but they could not cure him

17 then jesus answerd and said o faithless and perverse generation how long shall i be with you how long shall i bear with you bring him hear to me

19 then the disciples came to jesus privately and said why could we not cast it out


20 so jesus said because of your unbelief for assuredly i say to you if you have faith as a mustard seed you will say to this mountain move from here to there and it will move and nothing will be possible for you


21 how ever this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting

what happend in acts 19 should also be taken as a warning this is not to be taken as a joke


many christians do not take what is said in all gospels as some feel it is no use for us who are alive on this earth and why should we bring this into our church or use this on some one who comes of the street also this can be abused by those in authority and people can fake it by me saying this i saw a fair bit of this as i grounded my self in gods word and took the time to read the bible and jot down what i felt would help me

i also read books on deliverance and their were sevral books i read on church abuse this only happens to the gulable and to those that are weak and not strong what i call sheep you see this in the out side world and you see this with in the body of christ

those that are gulable will always accept what is being said to them with out doing any real leg work for them selves and the week ones stick close by to the leader of a pack and simply do what ever is asked of them as they see the leader as wise person

mark 16 verse 17

and these signs will follow those who believe in my name they will cast out demons they will speak with new tongues


18 they will take up serpants and if they drink anything deadly it will by no means hurt them they will lay hands on the sick and they will recover

those jews took it upon them selves and by taking it upon them selves with out realy asking paul or using their brains god has given them they were made to look the goats and even the 7 sons of sceva and the chief priest what they were doing is invoking gods name in other words mocking him i feel that god allowed this to happen to teach the whole community and to teach the 7 sons and the chief preist an important lesson

as you read in acts 19 verse

17 this became known both to all the jews and greeks dwelling in Ephesus and fear fell on them all and the name of the lord jesus was magnified

18 and many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds


these brothers and the chief priest were beaten to the point were they came out of that house naked i feel great shame also fell on them and i feel that they also wondered what the hell happend as in the home fellowship group i was involved in we liked to take gods word to the next leval we would pick sevral verses and then we would all have a say in how we see this for our selves and then our group leader would have his say and this man was very gifted a teacher and a man who studied gods word for most of his life so i felt this guy new what he was talking about when it came to topics like this

we put these verses on a white board in acts 19 that you have given out and took our time to understand what is the lesson we are to learn from these brothers and the chief priest as you cant just read something with out applying it to your life and asking is their anything i should be looking at or apply to my life is this going to help me in my walk and in my ministry

what i picked up in this and what happend to the 7 sons of sceva is this they did not realy committ them selves to god their was sin in their life and a demon is not stupid

no new christian should jump head first into this to what you have bought up so much needs to be done so much needs to be learned as this is all new to us

it even freaked me out as i never heard of a demon being cast out of a person or had i had the need to repent of my sins and ask jesus into my life i never even new how power full satan was i saw plenty of movies i liked watching horror movies and i like the night mare on elm street movies that came out i was hooked on the omen and i loved reading up on the occult

i had sevral close friends who were in the occult and i had one close friend who was a satanic priest i was very open to the spirit world as i had a friend who would speak to the dead often i had my palm read or my coffe cup read by my mothers sister we had gypsys on my side and i had to repent and cut these ties and blood lines over my life to the point of even praying and covering my own son as i did not want anything from my past sticking to him


as i settled and began to ask the heavy questions i was able to see that i left a door open for satan and his demons to control me see satan knows once our eyes have been open to the truth of gods word he has lost us so he will do what ever he can to hold us back


lets look at this passage in matthew 12 verse 44 - 45 some say when god saves us he draws a blood line around us which demons cant pass true their is a blood line but this is drawn around our spirit a christians soul mind will emotions but we can stil be susceptible to demonic power where any door to darkness has not been clossed this is one reason us belivers are not to give place to the devil

Ephesians 4 - 27 nor give place to the devil

even though we belong to god it is up to us take responsability for and authority over our lives satan will stil have an entry point to attack and torment us our churches are filled with tormented people who are saved but not free these people are living as victems rather then overcommers

but you or i will not know what realy is going on in a person only christ knows were a person is at in their walk and he knows what is going on in that person even the hidden sins that person holds back from comming to the surface or those who know them

i did this and i learnt the hard way


matthew 12 verse 44- 45 an unclean spirit returns

43 when an unclean spirit goes out of a man he goes through dry places seeking rest and finds none

44 then he says i will return to my house from which i came and when he comes he finds it empty
swept and put in order

45 then he goes and takes with him 7 other spirits more wicked then himself and they enter and dwell there
and the last state of that man is worse than the first so shall it also be with this wicked generation


we are to take heed to what is written and we are to step jently and try to apply what we read to our lives i wish i never did what i allowed my self to be open to when i was a young babe in christ but what i sowed into my life i reaped were christ heald me were he set me free when i was 18 i should have stayed in that bloodline which was prottecting me but i decided to leave an open door were satan and his demons can attack me
i did not blame the pastor or those that new me i took full responsability i allowed porn to be played in my home i allowed my wife to be placed in a mens magazine we hid a lot of things from the people that new us i would only say what i wanted people to hear as i realy did not want to let go of the alcahol or the pot or the herroin or the old life style i was so use to even though i new what was layed out in front of me when it came to my own bible and my own walk

know at the age of 40 a little bit wise but still growing and learninng i make sure i stick close to god and leave no door open as i am the one who is responsible for the choices i make

i have seen how effective this is in the street out reach work i do and avoid being around disgruntled and judgmental people who have nothing bettter to do than mock what ever christ did for us on the cross i stic to a spirit filled bible believing church as hear i know i can be around brothers and sisters like my self who i can talk wth and are not affraid to ask the heavy questions or were i get palmed off as you would in a dead church were their is no life

i do not have idols in my home that i worship like some of my catholic friends do the only idol i worship is jesus christ but i do not have a picture of him in my home or a symbol of jesus mother and bow to so many false gods like my catholic friends do thinking this will get them to heaven most of my friends do not even understand what they are doing or the doors that have been left oppen

in the flats and homes that i have rented i have prayed over these places i put oil on the front door and say a prayer and i go to each room and do this to each door post as people can sence gods peace in our homes i have had friends who are not christians say how peace full it is

this is how i see this for my self with out taping any one on the shoulder i am only human and i can only share from my personal experiances one thing i have learnt is always keep an open mind and when ever the holy spirit brings something up to the surface for me to deal with i repent of it straight away with out asking why am i being asked to deal with this



god bless from your brother in the lord damo7

My own interpretation of the scripture passage and others is that often people do not know they are being harassed by a demon or that they have a demon in them. I believe that is where prayer and fasting comes in.

My own experience with it is that the prayer and fasting for the purpose of deliverance has at least three purposes.

1) Prayer and fasting helps lift the veil off the person (as Paul said) so that they can see they have a demon and what it is doing to harm them.

2) Prayer and fasting also allows me to be more open and receptive to the Holy Spirit. There may be other issues that are involved, or there may be a strategy or a specific time or place for the deliverance to occur that He wants me to know.

3) Prayer and fasting are also about helping my body, soul and spirit be in proper alignment with the Holy Spirit. Often during this process He will point out areas of sin in my life that need to be dealt with before I am in a position to cast out a demon. In reality it is not me casting it out, it is the power of God working through me. So I must be properly aligned in order to allow the power of God to flow through me (if that makes sense.)

Once the veil is lifted, what if the person still chooses to keep that demon? I can say that All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me, and I can try to cast it out. But even if it does leave, the moment the person invites it back in it will come back.

And this is also dangerous because if they do not want it to leave, then I can be trying to impose my will on another person. Even worse, I am asking God to impose my will on the other person because my motive is for the good of the other person.

It is not about power. God wins the power encounter every time. It is about the will of the person casting out the demon being submitted to the will of God the father, and it is about the will of the person with the demon.

Once they are willing to let it go, the deliverance is simple. As I said God always wins the power encounter. It is short and quick. If it is a struggle then there is something else going on. This is where the person casting out the demon needs to be in alignment with the Holy Spirit and be aware of the directions that are being given by Him. It should be just as simple and quick as when Jesus did it. (He told us that we would do more and greater things then he did.)

We are instructed to never rejoice that the demons submit to us in Gods name, but to rejoice that our names are written in the book of life. The rejoicing for me is not in seeing the demon leave, but in watching the healing and restoration that comes to the person as a result of being free to grow closer to God.

Does this help answer your questions?

I’m not sure how deep you want to go into this, but here are some other thoughts.

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He set up the old covenant and the new covenant. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. That was true under the old covenant which is why the temple sacrifices were required. It is also true in the new covenant, but Jesus blood was shed for all who will accept it. So that principle or “law” of God has not changed. There is still no remission of sins without the shedding of blood.

It is also true that the shedding of blood forgives the sins of people, but not of angels. In fact, the NT says that angels long to understand and look into grace and salvation. It is a mystery they would like to understand.

This would leave angels living under God’s law, and with no hope of forgiveness or restoration if they break his law. If they break God’s law at any point, then just like people they would be guilty of breaking all of the law (as the Bible states).

The law given to Israel in the OT laid out blessings for keeping the law of God, and curses for not keeping the law of God. These are still in effect for us as people today. But since Jesus shed his blood we are able to appropriate that blood for our forgiveness. Jesus blood takes away the curses for not obeying the law and allows us to walk in the blessings of obeying God’s law.

Angels also live by the law of God. For those that chose to obey him, they remain in heaven and serving him. They walk in the fullness of the blessings of obeying the law. Angels that chose to rebel (angels have a free will also) were cast out of heaven and now walk in the fullness of the curses of the law of God. God made no provision for them to obtain grace.

The demonic realm are all fallen angels that were once in heaven. They live entirely in the realm of the law. Therefore they are totally legalistic. This has many implications when it comes to deliverance.

A demon will cling to even the tiniest thread of legalism. So if there is any un-confessed sin that it can hold on to, it will. It also means that for the person who is ministering, if there is any un-confessed sin or any break in their relationship with God, the demonic will point that out and refuse to submit to the authority that is being exercised in the name of Jesus.

The cure for this is easy. The Holy Spirit gives wisdom to those who are ministering about what the legalism is that the particular demon is clinging to. Once that is known, then praying in repentance is simple.

That goes back to the prayer and fasting that was in an earlier post. One of the purposes of prayer and fasting is to help us be in alignment with the Holy Spirit so that he can show us areas that need to be confessed before we enter into a situation where we might be confronting a demon in Jesus name.

I failed to mention earlier that it is usually better when ministering to someone for two things to be present.

1) They person being ministered to should speak out loud that they want the demon to go, and they give the ministering person permission to go after it. This is an act of their free will, and lets the demon know that the person wills for it to be gone. This takes away one of the threads of legalism that demons like to hold onto. It leaves the demon no ability to say “I don’t have to leave because the person still wants me to stay”.

2) It is wise to have at least two people ministering. One to focus on the ministry, one to focus on intercession and making sure there are no un-confessed sins or issues that the demonic can cling to.

Hope this helps answer questions you might have.

These are my opinions only, and I am open to any honest debate or discussion about them. In no way am I claiming this is 100% correct, only that this has been my experience up till now.

It is all about Faith,

"Faith must be built" A most vital area of faith is acquired through experience, True, induring Faith is not suddenly acquired, it is a result of learning from lifes situations, Read Matt. 14:15-33, in verse 23 Jesus prayed privately to God to strengthen His Faith, while he was praying, evening came and a great storm developed, the disciples were all in the tiny ship, they became fearful for their lives, Jesus appeared, walking on water, Jesus was still human at this time, what He was doing wasn't natural, He told Peter come, Peter acted presumptuously, his confidence was artificial,but Peter's faith was not enough to sustain when he began to realize the logical absurdity of the situation, he lost confidence and begin to sink, spur of the moment faith immediately dissipated in the face of true reality, Jesus turned the situation into an object lesson in intrinsec faith "Peter had a powerful evidence upon which to build his faith, right before his eyes, Jesus was doing it, But he took his eyes off of Jesus and began to sink, Peter lacked experience , experience produces confidence, it sets the pattern for us to build Faith. This is our Spiritual Personality it becomes our second nature but this takes time and experience, after Jesus's death and resurrection and ascension, Peter had to rely on past experiences
Acts 3:1-9, This was not the Peter who lacked faith on a stormy sea of Galiee he was a man changed with confidence in Jesus Christ and the power of God, He looked right to the source of evidence with praise going to God, His faith had been built upon years of experience, real living Faith, and by merely passing by someone his presence resulted in incredibly healings, He now had more of God's Holy Spirit, He walked by Faith. Acts 5:15,16
For we walk by faith not by sight, the trail Christian's Faith is based on the firm evidence of what he knows to be the will of the Father,Peter sank by sight, but Jesus walked on water by faith. Remember Jesus was still human, sometimes what we see erodes our confidence, it is difficult to exercise faith, it is even difficult to even fill close to God in a world that denies God at every turn. Those who wish to walk by Faith must have a sense of the reality of God. They must be actively conscious of His existence, they must believe that he is capable and willing to respond to the needs of those who DELIGENTLY seek such interventions as David did,In Psalms 119:51 and 145:18,19, a Faithful person has Godly Confidences not wavering in Faith, he is sure that God is there and that He hears our prayers, faith does not only apply to healing, Faith may be applied to physical protection, finances, job hunting and all confidences to face trials in a godless society of skepticism and doubt, walk not in blind faith of ignorant men, but in the knowledgeable faith understanding Faith of the children of God, Caution Jesus has already come in the flesh, The 2nd time He will come in Spirit in all His Glory.

Consider some of the great benefits of daily Bible Study: “For the word of God is quick [living], and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart” Heb4;12

The Word of God is a living Book and “a discerner of thoughts.” It applies to all situations and should be looked to for daily guidance, and if studied correctly, the Bible will make you “wise unto salvation.” It imparts the wisdom to survive and grow while we continue in the proving ground of qualifying for the first resurrection. {as I do believe this earth is our testing ground, to see if we will obey God or not and the Sabbath is among this test.}

The Scriptures help us to recognize and shun error. Bible study help us to avoid the devil’s seduction.

When we study the Bible, God’s Spirit leads you into understanding more truth. This Spirit imparts spiritual understanding of Scripture and helps us to apply these principles in daily life.

We build faith by studying the many examples of God’s faithful servants Rom. 10;17

Study of the Bible helps us to be vigilant and to resist the devil.
We study for comfort. We can gain serenity, stability and peace of mind through Bible study: “For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope” Rom. 15;4