The Real Tribulation Lie

The idea that there are living believers who are focused on the Lord’s return for them and are at the same time looking for an “easy” way out is “preacher” rhetoric by those who are against the Lord’s promise to keep living believers from the coming hour of trial of His wrath and judgments. This promise is His own motivation and not the believer’s false hope. You had better look under the covers of those who deny this truth which is supported 100% by the scriptures in His Word. Ask them why they are telling you this. Ask them to give you the scriptures that describe this alleged contradictive behavior by believers. Most, if not all, who preach and teach this nonsense have hidden agendas and attached false doctrines that can lead you away from your own salvation.

Stephen,
I am offering an olive branch.
I believe the contentious tone of this forum is a dishonor to God and certainly not a good witness to those who might come here seeking Bible answers. Unfortunately we sometimes fuel the determination of scoffers to keep scoffing. After all, if Christians treat each other they way we have on this forum, what do we have to offer the world?

That does not mean that there is no room for disagreement.
Healthy Bible discussion from different points of view can only sharpen the message of truth of Scripture.
It is no secret that we disagree on a number of subjects.
My desire is to have good Christian discussions on them.
If it is not possible for us to come to agreement, at least it can provide a little more insight for others to make their own decisions.

I am posting a study with no degrogatory comments or put downs.
Let's see if we can discuss it on a mature basis as brothers and sisters in Christ.
That is my prayer.

Does Revelation 3:10 support a Pre-Trib or Post Trib coming of Christ for His church?

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
The question is; How does God keep his church from the hour of trial?
Does God (1.) rapture the church out of the world to protect her, or (2.) is he saying that he will protect the church from the hour of trial while she is in the midst of the trial.

The Greek word translated keep, is tereo.
Here is Strongs definition of tereo:
To attend to carefully, take care of. 1A to guard. 1B metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is. 1C to observe. 1D to reserve: to undergo something.

The fact that it means to “guard” or to “keep one in the state in which he is,” would indicate option (2.) more accurately reflects the meaning of the passage.

Additionally, the same word is used in John 17:12 & 15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. (KJV)
My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one (Jn 17:15). NIV
While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. (v12)
Here Jesus even draws a distinct contrast between taking them out of the world, and protecting them from the evil one in the world.

A well trusted source agrees.
“The same applies in Rev. 3:10, where the transfigured Christ protects His community against eschatological temptation. The Pauline wish that the spirits, souls and bodies of Christians may be kept blameless also has an eschatological thrust, this time with reference to fellowship with Christ at the parousia, 1 Th. 5:23. The salutation in Jd. is addressed to the called, who will be kept for Christ, i.e., for His eschatological reign.” Theological dictionary of the New Testament. 1964-c1976. Vols. 5-9 edited by Gerhard Friedrich. Vol. 10 compiled by Ronald Pitkin. (G. Kittel, G. W. Bromiley & G. Friedrich, Ed.) (electronic ed.) (8:142). Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans. Kittle has been "the standard theological dictionary for years. I quote it, not to prove anything, proof comes from Scripture. I just wanted to show that this interpretation has nothing to do with church doctrine but it is sound Biblical exegesis.

In light of the facts above and that “tereo” can and is used in the sense of protecting one from evil without removing them from the world, this verse should not be used to prove a pre-trib rapture.
3am

Do not worry , most believe that "once saved always saved"

Nobody is even close to saying that God will not protect us from His judgement. We are saying that you are off, because you are mixing the words up, plus you are mixing up the timing.


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
trib·u·la·tion /ˌtrɪbyəˈleɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[trib-yuh-ley-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. grievous trouble; severe trial or suffering.
2. an instance of this; an affliction, trouble, etc.


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[Origin: 1175–1225; ME < L trībulātiōn- (s. of trībulātiō) distress, trouble, equiv. to trībulāt(us) (ptp. of trībulāre to press, squeeze, deriv. of trībulum threshing sledge, equiv. to trī-, var. s. of terere to rub, crush + -bulum n. suffix of instrument) + -iōn- -ion]


—Synonyms 1. affliction, hardship, distress, adversity.


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wrath /ræθ, rɑθ or, especially Brit., rɔθ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rath, rahth or, especially Brit., rawth] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. strong, stern, or fierce anger; deeply resentful indignation; ire.
2. vengeance or punishment as the consequence of anger. –adjective 3. Archaic. wroth.


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[Origin: bef. 900; (n.) ME wraththe, OE wrǣththo, equiv. to wrāth wroth + -tho -th1; (adj.) var. of wroth by assoc. with the n.]


—Synonyms 1. rage, resentment, fury, choler.


English 101

C

Nobody is wanting any kind of suffering, unless your not right in the head. However we are not closing our eyes to the scriptures, that say it is coming.
What on earth would anyone have to gain, as you are always saying, there is some kind of motivation. Only can speak for myself, I don't want anyone to support me, give me money, proclaim my name, only be aware of what is coming, that's it.
If anyone has any other kind of motivation, shame on them, and I'm sure that God, who is just will be the judge. It's funny that people feel such a need to beat on others, and proclaim they have the truth and everyone else is a liar or false prophet.
Even though I disagree with your point of view, I will not call you false, let everyone read and decide for themselves, about you, C, Bro. Jon, 3am, myself, or whomever.
I feel like the Lord has blessed me, by allowing me to see the truth, if you feel the same, you should pray for those that don't see.
3am, is right, Jesus taught us to even love our enemies, and I'm not feeling the love lately, LOL!
I was thinking about this very thing this weekend, I feel like forums like this are a great place to share the word of God, and I will use them as such, but with Jesus as my example, the arguing will cease on my part.

I love you Mouser!
...and no, I don't consider you an enemy
I just like how you put that...

Not to worry though...God is in control, and no matter where people are in their walk with Him..they are right where they should be because the Lord is who takes them there. So we can argue til we're blue in the face..if the Lord's not ready to open our eyes, then they're not opening. period!

Amen Mouser, and I agree with you and with Roxygal.

We must tell the truth and leave the insults. I will also stand with you and not fight anymore, just post the truth


C

Roxygal, thankyou, and I do think you are right, we can't force people to see. It's like puppies, if you try to open their eyes before it's time, they will be blind for life.
The one thing to remember, Jesus said that people would come and say I'm in a desert place, meaning that it's some kind of secret. Well Jesus didn't come to keep secrets, he came to reveal, only thing it takes is an open heart. I have nothing that I have recieved of myself, only what I've been taught, revelation doesn't make you better than anyone else, it just increases your responsibility to God, and your fellow man (woman).

"Then there will be great tribulation." (Matt 24, Jesus speaking)

The Greek words Jesus used are 'megas thlipsis.' It does NOT include the definite article 'the.' So we could very legitimately (if colloquially) translate Jesus' words as 'Then there will be gobs of trouble!'

Nowhere does Greek Text permit us to translate these words with the definite article 'the,' as proponents of modern Bible Prophecy Studies do. "The Great Tribulation" is a man-made phrase which does NOT occur in the Bible at all.

If the King James translators had translated Jesus words as 'Then there will be gobs of trouble,' do you think we would have hundreds of hackneyed "Prophecy Study" books selling millions of copies, warning us all to beware of the 'The Gobs of Trouble'? I trow not.

These people seized on the 'sexy' phraseology accorded to them here, added (and, by the way, you're not SUPPOSED to "add to" the Scripture!) the word 'the,' and had a recipe to make millions off of gullable Christians (I'll include myself; I used to buy these silly books too!), warning them of an utterly nonbiblical 'The Great Tribulation.'

Sorry folks, I'm walking to the beat of a different drummer here; and he's the drummer who doesn't need to 'add' extra words to the Bible's Truth!!!

Even so: we are about to enter a time of "great tribulation" now.
In many parts of the Bible does it also point to the fact of there being a time frame of seven years in which there will be great tribulation.
With or without the "the"..........we are entering into it.

C

This is what makes people want to throw in the towel.

This is what makes churches stay on the surface of things all the time because it always leads here.

This is the kind of thing that caused the emerging church to emerge on a different page.

Because this way doesn't work.

They said lets stop it and go out and try and reach the community on their level. No more Scripture arguing for us. It's driving the world away.

But no...You don't want that... because if people talk plain talk then how the heck are you going to lord it over them. I know the error that crept into that movement but l also understand the original motivation.
THIS
It was to get away from people who turn the word into a weapon of mass destruction. The know it alls who can't see the nose in front of their own face or the ripe fruit on the vine. You post endless reams of scripture and old dead arguments. When people try to extricate themselves you throw rocks on their way out.

The only thing this teaches is that you really don't know anything and that's why you have to argue.

It's like a bad marriage. Old arguments are brought up again and again. The kids have to sit and listen to it all or go there own way. And it's a sad fact of life in today's world. But in one way l like that it has carried on for so long because the wool has been pulled back from my eyes.

Amen brother, good post

C

Miki: I am concerned for you that good conversation, and intelligent discourse is seen by you as unhealthy. Methink you just need to develop a thicker hide.

Miki,
Please dont be so hard on Stephen. He is trying.
Perhaps some day he will be able to see the flaws in dispensationalism and move to a more Christ centered approach. But we need to be patient with him.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

By the way, dispensationalism is not the only thing out there.
We have won thousands of people to Christ all over the globe in the last 34 years teaching a Christ centered approach. Many of whom get angry that they have been kept on such a superficial level by the "Left Behind" mindset.
I say that not to boast, but the idea that deeper Bible discussion turns people off simply is not true.
It is the cutting, backbiting judgmentalism that turns people off and makes them want to throw in the towel.
I like the sweet Christian spirit that I am used to seeing come from Miki better.
3am

I guess l'm just reading between the lines and addressing them thusly.

I'm not against discussion and debate...

Only the kind the produces the fruit you all claim doesn't belong to you

A big amen to that!!! The world could give a rip about how much "truth" we think we know by spewing out bible verses, they want to see the love of Jesus by our lives and feel His presence flowing from our inmost being.

Caneman