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dennis mann
The govt charity programs (Social Security, Medicare, socialism, communism, food stamps, subsidized health care and housing, etc) are the pagan’s cheap inferior substitute for BIBLICAL CHRISTIAN LOVE.
The govt charity programs have nothing to do with helping people……..they are an attack against the Bible and Jesus.


Some secular Judges and Jurors are accused of being SOFT ON CRIME AND CRIMINALS…………..they give very little punishment to great crimes.
The reason is :…….the Judge has sin in his life, and it’s difficult for the sinful Judge to be hard on Criminals when the Judge’s conscience is dirty.
We need Judges who live righteous and loving lives, so that they will be righteous in their Judgements, in court cases.
Being SOFT ON CRIME has no rhyme nor reason, other than………it’s an attack against Bible and Jesus Christ.



Often, many heterosexuals are sympathetic and supportive to Gay Rights. Why?
Some have sin in their lives (adultery, lies, thefts, etc), so they sympathize with other sinners and rebels.
They support Gay Rights to dis-credit the Bible, which condemns their own sins.
Their support for Gay Rights has nothing to do with helping Gays;;;;;;;;they have ulterior motives. (to dis-credit the Bible).
It’s an attack against the Bible and the Lord Jesus.



Evolution does not stand on it’s own merit……….it’s simply a proxy War for an attack against the Bible and our Lord Jesus.



The whole Universe, Creation, history, Time , Space, ……..revolves around our Lord Jesus Christ………you either Love Him or hate Him.


Brian Kelley
Mostly agreed, though I don't understand your attack against socialism, and I support medicaid and food stamps when children are involved. I believe children need to be helped no matter who their parents are.

Also remember that we are all sinners. Name one who is completely without sin, because I'd love to meet them.

I agree that people either love Him or hate Him, but we are to love them either way!
Father Onesimus
QUOTE(dennis mann @ Oct 30 2007, 07:33 PM) [snapback]127242[/snapback]

The govt charity programs (Social Security, Medicare, socialism, communism, food stamps, subsidized health care and housing, etc) are the pagan’s cheap inferior substitute for BIBLICAL CHRISTIAN LOVE.
The govt charity programs have nothing to do with helping people……..they are an attack against the Bible and Jesus.


Some secular Judges and Jurors are accused of being SOFT ON CRIME AND CRIMINALS…………..they give very little punishment to great crimes.
The reason is :…….the Judge has sin in his life, and it’s difficult for the sinful Judge to be hard on Criminals when the Judge’s conscience is dirty.
We need Judges who live righteous and loving lives, so that they will be righteous in their Judgements, in court cases.
Being SOFT ON CRIME has no rhyme nor reason, other than………it’s an attack against Bible and Jesus Christ.



Often, many heterosexuals are sympathetic and supportive to Gay Rights. Why?
Some have sin in their lives (adultery, lies, thefts, etc), so they sympathize with other sinners and rebels.
They support Gay Rights to dis-credit the Bible, which condemns their own sins.
Their support for Gay Rights has nothing to do with helping Gays;;;;;;;;they have ulterior motives. (to dis-credit the Bible).
It’s an attack against the Bible and the Lord Jesus.



Evolution does not stand on it’s own merit……….it’s simply a proxy War for an attack against the Bible and our Lord Jesus.



The whole Universe, Creation, history, Time , Space, ……..revolves around our Lord Jesus Christ………you either Love Him or hate Him.


[size=5]WAHOO, BROTHER!!!

I may disagree with a lot what you've written elsewhere, but you have nailed this square on the head! Thank God for Christians like you, who have a seeing eye!
dennis mann
QUOTE(Brian Kelley @ Oct 31 2007, 02:30 AM) [snapback]127253[/snapback]

Mostly agreed, though I don't understand your attack against socialism, and I support medicaid and food stamps when children are involved. I believe children need to be helped no matter who their parents are.

Also remember that we are all sinners. Name one who is completely without sin, because I'd love to meet them.

I agree that people either love Him or hate Him, but we are to love them either way!



Socialism is an attack upon PROPERTY RIGHTS.

If i steal your money, land, possessions (as an individual) , then, that's STEALING.

If the Socialist pressures his Govt to steal my possessions, and give those possessions to my neighbors (the poor), then, that's STEALING also.

where in the bible does it say that the secular govt, in NT times , should run CHARITY PROGRAMS?......it's not in there.
The Govt's job is to PROTECT my property rights, (not destroy them).

In the USA, the govt charity programs are completely bankrupt and un-sustainable............the projected taxes and revenues will not pay for the projected costs and promised benefits.
But, the govt continues to give away the borrowed money, since it is the easiest and best way to buy votes from targeted voters with STOLEN MONEY (this money is borrowed money , the NATIONAL DEBT, which is now, about $600,000 per family of four).

my children are learning their morals from the govt..........tyhe govt says that IT'S GOOD TO STEAL FROM THE HAVES, AND GIVE TO THE HAVE-NOTS.........that is Socialism and Communism

in the bible, it says
the rich should CHEERFULLY help the poor,...........sell all that you have and give to the poor
IT NEVER SAYS TO STEAL FROM THE RICH.

many people who are getting help from the govt charity programs are too lazy or wicked to work for a living and be responsible............
THE BIBLE SAYS...........IF A MAN WILL NOT WORK, NEITHER SHALL HE EAT (we are not told to help the lazy and wicked).........
But the govt charity programs VIOLATE this Biblical COMMAND FROM GOD.

the way that the govt operates (in a democracy),.........if 51% of the voters voted for it, they could vote me out of my home today.............that's democracy!

democracy has a fatal flaw..........Many are wicked and un-believing............Few are loving , righteous, and born-again...............and the 51% rule over the 49%................the wicked make the laws for everyone to live by.
so, we have wicked laws , such as Socialism and Communism.

the Bible tells me to obey the govt, honor Ceasar, pay the taxes, and.........
THE GOVT (CEASAR) IS GOD'S INSTRUMENT TO PERFORM RIGHTEOUSNESS, IN THAT THE GOVT PROVIDES SOME LAW AND ORDER, SO THAT WE CAN LIVE QUIET, PEACEFUL LIVES, FILLED WITH GOOD WORKS.
Even a fairly corrupt govt (anarchy) is better than no govt at all.
Brian Kelley
QUOTE(dennis mann @ Oct 31 2007, 04:51 AM) [snapback]127291[/snapback]

QUOTE(Brian Kelley @ Oct 31 2007, 02:30 AM) [snapback]127253[/snapback]

Mostly agreed, though I don't understand your attack against socialism, and I support medicaid and food stamps when children are involved. I believe children need to be helped no matter who their parents are.

Also remember that we are all sinners. Name one who is completely without sin, because I'd love to meet them.

I agree that people either love Him or hate Him, but we are to love them either way!



Socialism is an attack upon PROPERTY RIGHTS.

If i steal your money, land, possessions (as an individual) , then, that's STEALING.

If the Socialist pressures his Govt to steal my possessions, and give those possessions to my neighbors (the poor), then, that's STEALING also.

where in the bible does it say that the secular govt, in NT times , should run CHARITY PROGRAMS?......it's not in there.
The Govt's job is to PROTECT my property rights, (not destroy them).

In the USA, the govt charity programs are completely bankrupt and un-sustainable............the projected taxes and revenues will not pay for the projected costs and promised benefits.
But, the govt continues to give away the borrowed money, since it is the easiest and best way to buy votes from targeted voters with STOLEN MONEY (this money is borrowed money , the NATIONAL DEBT, which is now, about $600,000 per family of four).

my children are learning their morals from the govt..........tyhe govt says that IT'S GOOD TO STEAL FROM THE HAVES, AND GIVE TO THE HAVE-NOTS.........that is Socialism and Communism

in the bible, it says
the rich should CHEERFULLY help the poor,...........sell all that you have and give to the poor
IT NEVER SAYS TO STEAL FROM THE RICH.

many people who are getting help from the govt charity programs are too lazy or wicked to work for a living and be responsible............
THE BIBLE SAYS...........IF A MAN WILL NOT WORK, NEITHER SHALL HE EAT (we are not told to help the lazy and wicked).........
But the govt charity programs VIOLATE this Biblical COMMAND FROM GOD.

the way that the govt operates (in a democracy),.........if 51% of the voters voted for it, they could vote me out of my home today.............that's democracy!

democracy has a fatal flaw..........Many are wicked and un-believing............Few are loving , righteous, and born-again...............and the 51% rule over the 49%................the wicked make the laws for everyone to live by.
so, we have wicked laws , such as Socialism and Communism.

the Bible tells me to obey the govt, honor Ceasar, pay the taxes, and.........
THE GOVT (CEASAR) IS GOD'S INSTRUMENT TO PERFORM RIGHTEOUSNESS, IN THAT THE GOVT PROVIDES SOME LAW AND ORDER, SO THAT WE CAN LIVE QUIET, PEACEFUL LIVES, FILLED WITH GOOD WORKS.
Even a fairly corrupt govt (anarchy) is better than no govt at all.


The problem, which is fairly obvious, is that if there are not enough Christians donating to those who need it, they will suffer when the government could help them.
The Bible also shows rich men in general as full of sin. Why do you attack the lazy so much more than the greedy? Are they not both sins? Should we not help them both in love?

No the Bible doesn't say that the government should run charity programs. The Bible doesn't say that we should have toilets in our houses either. The Bible doesn't say a lot of things. But if a program is done in love, why not use it?

Don't get me wrong, I disagree with most liberal viewpoints. However, I see the flaws in capitalism too. Capitalism creates an incredible amount of temptation for greed and other dangerous sins. We are not called to tempt those who have the inclination to exploit the poor. We are called to love everyone, which means, in this case, removing temptation.
dennis mann
i understand that we live in a FALLEN WORLD...........and the rich AND THE POOR are not righteous and loving...........neither the rich nor the poor will do right.

so, the Socialism that we see today is "better than nothing".

if the rich were righteous and loving, they would help the poor better than they do now.

if the poor were righteous and loving, thay wouldn't be pressuring their govt for some free money from the rich.

so, both sides are (for the most part) wicked and un-biblical.

in (RAMPANT, UN-RESTRAINED) FREE ENTERPRISE , the rich will grow richer, and the rich will own all the land (not good at all).

in (RAMPANT, UN-RESTRAINED ) SOCIALISM AND COMMUNISM, the poor will completely destroy all PROPERTY RIGHTS (they'll take everything the rich have, as in the THIRD WORLD)........(not good at all)

so, since many will not obey the bible, a little socialism might be a good thing (to restrain the run-away greed of the rich)

but, it's not the bible way
the bible way is FAR SUPERIOR to Socialism.

nothing will work good , until Jesus comes back

LORD JESUS, COME QUICKLY!
Brian Kelley
We agree. If everyone did their best to follow the instruction of God, everyone would prosper! I definitely agree that the Bible way is superior to socialism or anything else.

I'm glad we could reach a peace! Such is the will of God for brothers in Christ.

- Brian
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