What do you think of Christian Meditation as a form of prayer, is it biblical and useful?

If yes, why is, how do you do it, and what has it done for you.

If no, why not, have you ever tried it, what was your experience with it.


Caneman

The Hebrew word usually translated as 'meditate' in the Bible means 'to mumble aloud.' I think utterly silent meditation is nigh on to useless!

The differences between Christian meditation and the meditation practiced in the Eastern religions could not be more profound, and stem from our vastly different concepts of the ultimate.

In the Easter Religions, our physical reality is considered a deception. We do not actually exist, but are trapped by perceptions in this physical realm. Brahman--the Hindu ultimate--is NON-EXISTENCE. However at some time in the distant past Brahman got bored, and decided to play a game of 'hide and seek' with himself. Now if you are non-existence, the best place to hide is IN EXISTENCE.

So Brahman took little 'pieces' of himself and tricked them into believing they actually existed. These little pieces are us! Our senses and intelligence LIE TO US, and try to convince us that the world and we ourselves actually exist. So the supreme end of Eastern religion is to truly discover that NOTHING EXISTS! The goal of Eastern meditation is then to EMPTY THE MIND, to enter into the void of non-being.

The Bible teaches that God's creation has ONTOS--true existence. God is a rational Being, Who endowed His beloved creation with 'goodness.' Physical creation is seen as a good thing, and we human beings have 'being' and ontos as well. He gave us senses and reason which enlighten us as to the truth of the universe, rather than which lie to us, as in Eastern thought. The goal of Christian meditation is to FILL THE MIND with the correct thoughts: With the Word of God, upon which we are to 'meditate (mumble aloud) day and night.'

Although the two forms of meditation may LOOK similar to the casual observer, the differences are most profound.

Another definition for 'meditate' could be to dwell upon. I often, after reading a particularly enlightening verse or chapter in the Bible, will sit down for however long it takes, sometimes hours, simply thinking about what I've read, praying for God to give me wisdom to fully understand this part of His Word. I'll also dwell on good things I've seen throughout the day or good things I could do or could have done, as suggested to us by Paul in his letter to the Philippians (chapter 4, verse 8), "Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things."

Meditation is an essential quality of a Christian. David for example constantly meditated on God's commandments.
Psalm 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.

So Christian meditation is an active exercising of the mind, directing the thoughts to Godly things and away from sensual earthly things.

Eastern meditation however is an entirely different thing. It involves emptying the mind of all constructive thought. Allow it to be open and completely passive. This is terribly risky and opens doorways for evil beings to enter into the mind. Eastern meditation involves trying to get in touch with your inner being, this may involve focusing the mind onto a single object like a candle, the breathing, repetive chants like ooommm.

As Christians we should avoid all activities which include eastern meditation such as Yoga and certain martial arts.

I believe the martial arts can be good if studied to build one's discipline and physical attributes like balance and speed. It's a great way to hone your body as a temple of the Spirit. The stretches offered in casual yoga classes such as those offered at health centers and gyms are helpful too. It's when you get into the "spiritual" side of it, as some people like to call it, that it gets dangerous.

I agree with your sentiments, excubitor, but as a martial art student, and as told in God's word, I cannot let that which I consider good to be spoken of as evil, at least not without further explanation!

I understand where you are coming from. In the early stages of these disciplines it is all about mind and body and is all fairly harmless. However it is impossible to advance in these disciplines without dabbling in the spiritual meditation side of this. Some young people are unknowingly hoodwinked into eastern religions by progressing through the various stages. There are plenty of ways to hone your body through traditional sports and weights without having to get involved with yoga and martial arts. Let's be wise and steer clear of every activity which may take us or our children unknowingly down dark paths.

I'm glad that you realise that the spiritual side of it dangerous, however it is extremely difficult for a young student inexperienced in Christianity to detect when they are crossing the line between mind and body discipline and into the spiritual meditation side. Far better to steer well clear and choose safer activities.

Do not let your little kids to enjoy the early stages of martial arts and yoga. Then they get the urge to progress to the higher levels where they are being introduced to meditation and spiritual concepts which are abhorrent to Christianity. Before you know it your little children will have grown up and choose hinduism and buddhists. What many fail to understand is that eastern religions use yoga and martial arts to recruit westerners into their religions. That is not good that is evil. There may be wise and trained Christians who can do these martial arts without being compromised, but why bother? Aren't there plenty of other activities we can choose without dabbling in arts which are fundamentally evil disciplines of false religions.

Thank you for your warning, excubitor.

I don't have children now. Part of the reason I wish to learn as much as I can now is that when it comes time for my children to enter school, I'd like to be able to teach them self defense rather than sending them to a dojo. I know I'm strong enough in my faith, and I know I've chosen to learn from a teacher who professes to be a Christian, and so far I haven't seen anything different. The school teaches American kickboxing, American karate, and Olympic judo. While almost all martial arts come from the Orient, it's important that the "Americanized" martial arts have adopted a much more matter-of-fact style and are more concerned with self-defense and self-discipline than "self-awareness".

Nonetheless, I will pray about your warning.

- Brian

Hi Brian, I think you are probably right that there are Americanised martial arts such as Judo which are quite OK. If you go back on my previous post I did say "certain" martial arts so as to not make a blanket prohibition. I think your approach is very sensible and is a good example for others. For those who cannot find knowledgeable guidance on selecting a martial art I feel that it is better to err on the side of caution and select a more mainstream sporting activity.

As far as self defence goes I would be amazed if any martial art is as effective at self defence than a $10 can of pepper spray. Another risk is that martial arts students can end up feeling cocky in dicey situations. Where the better part of valour is to avoid dangerous situation and run like the clappers if you accidentally find yourself in one, these students can end up almost looking for trouble to try out their skills. Then to their chagrin they find a dangerous situation where there are two thugs instead of one and one of them has a knife. Not good.

If you are serious about self defence then I recommend that the best sport to take up is sprinting.

If anybody does get cornered then I believe that aggression is a better weapon than training. Completely go nuts with rage and aggression. Poke and gouge eyes, bite wherever possible. When biting, bite deep and hard like a bulldog do not let go. Try to bite and tear whatever it is off. Knees and kicks to the groin knees and head of opponent are effective, screaming scratching spitting, pulling and tearing at hair, foaming at the mouth if you can manage it. King David did. I'm sure that many people will consider this unchristian behaviour. However I would like to contend that a Christian who lives by prayer and wisdom will not find himself in this situation to begin with and will have long before avoided or fled the scene.

Most martial arts specifically reinforce our societal inclination to fight fair. However in a life threatening situation you must use every weapon at your disposal to improve your odds in a fight.

For self defence training which will work effectively I have provided a link http://www.tactselfdefense.com
So obviously from looking at this site you will quickly discover that self defence which works is not something which we really want to be studying and filling our heads with.

As Christian prayer warriors we have guardian angels to protect us and so we do not need to protect ourselves at all. There is more danger in martial arts of falling into a false eastern religion or getting injured than there is danger of a wise christian getting hurt in a dangerous situation on the streets.

PS. I am not recommending the self defence classes or products on this linked site.

So then should we say it's OK to dance with a whore as long as we don't have intercourse?
After all..She dances well and l want to give instruction to youth about dancing.

Hardly a true comparison, but I charge you to find anyone in this world who is without sin. It'll keep you occupied for a while. Perhaps we should just lock ourselves in our bedrooms until we pass away?

I couldn't agree more... Eastern forms of meditation seek an impersonal awareness produced by techniques, while biblical meditation is absoultely relational and based on a loving personal communion with the indwelling Trinity.


Caneman

I think that is part of it. If you look at the Old Testament there are two primary Hebrew words for meditation: Haga, which means to utter, groan, meditate, or ponder (the word you refer to); and Sihach, which means to muse, rehearse in one's mind, or contemplate. These words can also be translated as dwell, diligently consider, and heed. On forms seems more vocal (with the voice and mouth), while the other form seems to be more internal (with the heart and or spirit).

Psa 4:4 …Meditate in your heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.
Psa 19:14 …the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in Your sight…
Psa 49:3 …the meditation of my heart…
Psa 77:6 …I will meditate with my heart, And my spirit ponders:



Caneman





By silent do you mean "non-vocal", or just being still and quiet before the presence of God?


Caneman

I think I agree with this somwhat:

we can meditate on God Himself: Psa 63:6 When I remember You on my bed, I meditate on You…

we can meditate on God's wonders: Psa 119:27 …I will meditate on Your wonders.

we can meditate on God's law: Psa 1:2 …in His law he meditates day and night.

Incidentally, God's greatest commandment in His law is to Love Him, so meditating on loving Him seems to be a good things.

Paul exhorts us to meditate on: Phi 4:8 ...whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think [meditate] about these things.

Seems like Jesus fits all those categories!


Caneman

You're rationalizing so you can do what ever you want.

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honorable, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Gen 24:63 And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide. And he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, there were camels coming.

Jos 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth, but thou shalt meditate thereon day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of Jehovah; And on his law doth he meditate day and night.


Psa 63:6 When I remember thee upon my bed, And meditate on thee in the night-watches

Psa 77:12 I will meditate also upon all thy work, And muse[b] on thy doings.

Psa 119:15 I will meditate on thy precepts, And have respect unto thy ways.

Psa 119:23 Princes also sat and talked against me; But thy servant did meditate on thy statutes.


Psa 119:27 Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: So shall I meditate on thy wondrous works.

We have to meditate on God Word.

C

Eastern thought has entered into the conversation.

That's what I'm refering to.
I not talking about meditating on our wondrous Lord and what he has to say.

Well then it would more helpful if you participated in this conversation in a positive way. Why not then rather share the correct way with people? It would be nice to hear the HOW of Christian meditation, seeing that it is actually mentioned in the Bible. Why not look at the Scriptures (I have given all of them) and then see if there are anything that some have in common, that will point the way for us as well?


C

Because that is the word the Lord gave me...It's why l put it in red.

If you don't like it take it up with him.

Interesting: So in fact you are saying that the Lord is now going against His own Word.

Mat 12:25 And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

So you want us to believe that the Lord gave you a word that is saying that we should not meditate on the Scriptures , out of fear that we might get it wrong. Meaning there IS a right way, but better not to go there (dancing with the whore) just in case we would mess it up?

so:

I will get the Tipex out and delete those scripture immediately.

C

The converstion had swayed to Eastern thought C...

Is meditation is the mental activity of loving God?

Miki, I am not trying to pick a fight. I am suggesting though, that this is a wonderful subject and worthy to study and DO. So lets for a change stop straining out the gnats and just study the Word. If we stick to it, we are safe. If not, we are not safe. Simple. If we add anything to the understanding as given in the Bible, we deserve to go astray, because we then did not follow the advice of our God. STICK to the Word.

Psa 119:105 Nun. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, And light unto my path.

We all know that the world is a dark place. so how else will we see where our feet must go, if we do not have a lamp. Without a lamp we too will walk around in darkness. The Bible is our lamp for the way we should go.

So if we read it for that purpose, it WILL give us directions and light. We need to meditate on all the truths, so that God, through His Holy Spirit. We must think on it, so that it can sink in.

C

OK SB, now in order to answer that we have to look at all the scriptures together that has to do with this.

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honorable, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Gen 24:63 And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide. And he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, there were camels coming.

Jos 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth, but thou shalt meditate thereon day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of Jehovah; And on his law doth he meditate day and night.


Psa 63:6 When I remember thee upon my bed, And meditate on thee in the night-watches

Psa 77:12 I will meditate also upon all thy work, And muse on thy doings.

Psa 119:15 I will meditate on thy precepts, And have respect unto thy ways.

Psa 119:23 Princes also sat and talked against me; But thy servant did meditate on thy statutes.


Psa 119:27 Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: So shall I meditate on thy wondrous works.

We see that the Bible tells us to meditate on:

God law, precepts , statutes, which is the whole Bible.
Then also on God Himself.
Then also: on God's works and his doings.


The Psalmist asks God to MAKE him understand the way of God's precepts, in order for him to meditate on His wondrous works.

So yes, I see that there is worship and love for our creator involved in the act of meditating on Him, His Word, and His works.

C

C...This is a topic worthy of discussion. I did a whole series on it once because my son was into martial arts. When l went back to retrieve it l couldn't find it. I knew l would have to research it again.

Then the Lord gave me that word and it was a perfect summation.

Who is the whore? Who is the dragon? Who is the one who spreads the virus throughout the world infecting everyone? The Bible tells us. It's what the whole of the word is about...reaching it's climax in the Revelation...

This is in fact part of a vision l had when God was reveling the truth of the catholic church to me...When l saw a man walking hand and hand down the streets of Westport Washington. It's become a tourist town of trinkets since the salmon fishing industry has shut down. I think it's under the topic about the Catholic church.

I could try to find it...but l'm always out time..sorry. Maybe l should have explained the context better. I'll try to find the post and draw the conclusions the Lord is showing and has shown me.

The Camel is noted for storing water in its hump(s) in order that it can endure in the desert.

If you meditate on the Word, it sinks in. And when it sinks in you remember it better.
So meditating on the Word allows us to store it better in our memories,
especially for when we end up in the wilderness.

Good spot ! Indeed, the Water of the Word !
C

It was from the topic...God hates mixing...

So if l follow the word he has given me (and thanks for drawing my attention back to the word C...)

it's a natural progression.

First comes hand holding as as he has shown me in this previous post about the Catholic church...Then comes dancing..

The Catholic church (hierarchy)and Eastern thought and practices.

Don't teach your children to do that dance...

Shekel talks about some of this in the dragon code...I wonder if these are two of the heads?
http://www.bible-codes.org/dragon-holocaus...ophecy-code.htm



But just thinking out loud on this part...

Yes, I think you are on to something... but perhaps it has more to do with the heart than the head.

Caneman

Good, so lets teach our children the true meditation of the Word then !
C

Thanks C...Yes.

Interesting that the Lord used the image of dancing...

Look at this.

I guess the question the Lord would like to ask is Who are you holding hands with?

Who are you dancing with....

Who are you touching? In what way?

Are you touching them with the truth of the word? Or are you joining their dance?

1holding hands...

2dancing...

3touching...

4Don't let the climax of this play be one you don't want to see.

I'm a pretty straightforward guy. I don't live in metaphors to well. What does this dancing have to do with meditation, or with our previous discussion on martial arts? Just wondering, so I am clear.

Paul tells us something that is very peculiar:

"...the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace." (Rom 8:6)

This sounds like meditation.


Caneman

When the guys started talking about meditation.... eastern thought entered the picture...as well as the martial arts. I'm against Christians being involved for a number of reasons. I did a long study on it and God opened my eyes many things. When l went back to retrieve my research l couldn't find it. Then the Lord spoke into my spirit these words. Is it OK to dance with whore if you don't have intercourse?

The dance means close involvement such as the martial arts and certain forms of false meditation.

Instead of touching with the truth of Christ we become involved in their dance making it appear to many (including children) that it acceptable and OK...

Dancing with wolves...

Because this was a word from the Lord l have investigated the term as l always do when he gives me a word or l think he is giving me a word or word image. In this case "dancing". It's usually full of meaning. So l have followed what l think is his lead...

In the movie dancing with wolves we see the wolf as a spirit guide yet we romantically watch the display of paganism woven into the fabric of society.


David of course comes to mind as the Godly personification of Godly meditation.

The Lord wanted to address the other side of this as well.

... as long as it is not TRANSCENDENTAL MEDITATION!!! (like EMPTYING YOUR BRAIN!!!... so that demons, seing the house "CLEANED" come with seven more wicked demons inside your head!!!)


Berk... Bouark bouark...

... or "trying, dipping" in other religions like Buddhism and/or reading books from DEEPAK SHOPRA (WHAT God is he talking about????? and the... DELAI LAMA!!!

I flee these false doctrines like the pest!

But l want to ENCOURAGE you.

Many have been dancing to the enemies tune unaware and also because of strange circumstances of life.

Don't worry! Someone is about to tap you on the shoulder and cut in! Praise the Lord for ever more!

So, what about Christian meditation then?

Does anybody here think (meditate) on the Word. Do you spend time with the types and shadows, praying that the Holy Spirit will open them to you. Does anybody believe in asking and then waiting for the answer?

C

Jer 31:13 Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.

I believe, while we should be wary of evil and avoid it, we should not dwell on all that is wrong. Philippians 4:8 tells us to dwell on the good aspects of life. We should be thinking about the positive forms of meditation: encouraging Christians to dwell on the Word of God. While we should make sure to warn about the possibility of evil and the wrong way to do things, that should not be the main point in a conversation: the blessing that God as given us should be!

Meditation, which to me means filling my mind with the Word of God and emptying it of all else, is good. Complete emptiness, no, but emptiness so as to make room for God's Word, that's something to strive for.

- Brian

Here is one man's thoughts on Christian Meditation:

"I love to see you in prayer taking the position of a beggar, of a beast of burden; but still more do I love that indescribable something which inwardly draws you on without any distinct aim, but with a certain dry repose full of aridity. When you get so far, hold on to this state contenting yourself with waiting in that peaceful expectation of which I have so frequently spoken to you. Again at other times try to make some acts, or to read something as quietly as possible and with frequent pauses to give room for the interior attraction to act. But always remember that you ought to follow the least attraction that draws you interiorly, and to retain it peacefully without too much exertion, and without seeking out distinct thoughts. This repose in the presence of God, this slight recollectedness is of even greater value, and will cause you to make more progress than the most sublime thoughts.... Just the presence of God, abandonment to God; just the desire to love God, and to be united to Him. These are the most simple exercises... and of far greater importance than any exterior practices." J. P. De Caussade, Book 3, Letter 17, "Abandonment to Divine Providence"

I realize most of you are going to fry this guy because he was a Catholic priest in the 18th century, but our protestant traditions have only been around for a few hundred years while the Catholic faith has been around over 2000 years... Protestants can learn something from them. They are not the "bad guy", we are both on the same team with them!

Caneman