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whirlwind
QUOTE(C @ Jan 3 2008, 03:59 PM) [snapback]139890[/snapback]


By implication, I just mean that it depends on the translation. Sometimes its translated "Lucifer" .

.................

I really do not think that we will be getting the fake star. Unless you mean that he will be under our feet. That is true, we have dominion over him. He wanted to sat up his throne above the "stars" and God said, no, you will be under their feet.

SO smile.gif my humble opinion is: Christ is the bright and morning start, which the overcomers will get.

Satan just gets stepped upon and he is nothing that we want, although I understand what you mean.

C





Christ is the Bright and Morning Star...the True Star but there will also be a fake. That fake comes first pretending to be the real Morning Star. I believe Isaiah 14 is telling us of the fake.


Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13.For thou hast said in thine heart, 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of god: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.

14.I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the MOST HIGH.'

15.Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.




Lucifer, morning star, was worshipped by the Assyrians as male at sunrise, female at sunset. A name of Satan. ~ E.W.Bullinger


So....in this reference, 14:12-15, we see it is about Satan and he is referred to as a morning star. That takes us back to square one.....who is the morning star being given to the elect? You stated, "I really do not think that we will be getting the fake star. Unless you mean that he will be under our feet. That is true, we have dominion over him. He wanted to sat up his throne above the "stars" and God said, no, you will be under their feet.



So....in Rev. 2:27 when He says: And I will give him the morning star, it could mean He gives "him"( the elect), Satan to defeat, or....it could mean giving us Himself, the true Morning Star.


I believe it is giving us Satan (the fake morning star) and we defeat him with the rod (shepherd) which is His Word. This is when the elect are delivered up in the end of days and the Holy Spirit speaks through them. [Mark 13:9-10]


.........Whirlwind
C
QUOTE
The original HeYLeL is from the root HLL which implies brightness or
praiseworthiness ("Hallelujah"). It is the name for the Morning Star (the
planet Venus),in Greek FWSFOROS, in Latin Lucifer


Its interesting looking at the root words. smile.gif

Lucifer, comes from the above quote , Lucifer is the name given to the morning star. (for)

But when we look at Rev, we see that the Greek word is not FWSFOROS but Orthrinos (meaning early) and before its the word:Lampros (Bright)

So in Greek they are different: the one (Lucifer) is FWSFOROS and in Greek Jesus is : Lampros Orthirinos


So Jesus is not named "for" but He IS the Lamros Orthirinos.


But I still get your point WW smile.gif I too believe that the elect will in fact be in war with Satan and they will defeat him and his armies with the Word of God.

C
George
QUOTE(C @ Jan 3 2008, 01:57 PM) [snapback]139906[/snapback]

QUOTE
The original HeYLeL is from the root HLL which implies brightness or
praiseworthiness ("Hallelujah"). It is the name for the Morning Star (the
planet Venus),in Greek FWSFOROS, in Latin Lucifer


Its interesting looking at the root words. smile.gif

Lucifer, comes from the above quote , Lucifer is the name given to the morning star. (for)

But when we look at Rev, we see that the Greek word is not FWSFOROS but Orthrinos (meaning early) and before its the word:Lampros (Bright)

So in Greek they are different: the one (Lucifer) is FWSFOROS and in Greek Jesus is : Lampros Orthirinos


So Jesus is not named "for" but He IS the Lamros Orthirinos.


But I still get your point WW smile.gif I too believe that the elect will in fact be in war with Satan and they will defeat him and his armies with the Word of God.

C


The "sons of God" (body of Christ) will indeed battle and defeat Satan (those who love the things of men and are not mindful of the things of God) and defeat them. It will be by the Living Word of God Spoken in Demonstration of the Power of the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 6
2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?
whirlwind
QUOTE(C @ Jan 3 2008, 05:57 PM) [snapback]139906[/snapback]

QUOTE
The original HeYLeL is from the root HLL which implies brightness or
praiseworthiness ("Hallelujah"). It is the name for the Morning Star (the
planet Venus),in Greek FWSFOROS, in Latin Lucifer


Its interesting looking at the root words. smile.gif

Lucifer, comes from the above quote , Lucifer is the name given to the morning star. (for)

But when we look at Rev, we see that the Greek word is not FWSFOROS but Orthrinos (meaning early) and before its the word:Lampros (Bright)

So in Greek they are different: the one (Lucifer) is FWSFOROS and in Greek Jesus is : Lampros Orthirinos


So Jesus is not named "for" but He IS the Lamros Orthirinos.


But I still get your point WW smile.gif I too believe that the elect will in fact be in war with Satan and they will defeat him and his armies with the Word of God.

C



What your post tells me is that Christ is The Morning Star while that name/title was "given" to Satan. Meaning God gave it to him and it allows him to come in the role of Christ as the anti-christ, or properly translated.....the instead of christ. Because he is allowed that deception he causes the "stumblingblock" to Christians.


11 Thessalonians 2:22 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33.As it is written, "Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed."



The stumblingstone, the lie, the rock of offence is Satan in the guise of Christ....the instead-of-christ. Those that believe he is Christ will be ashamed but not those that wait for the True Morning Star. Our Father allows Satan, the rock of offence, to stand in Zion pretending to be Jesus but if we stay true and believe only on the true Christ we shall not be ashamed.


Christ is: The Son of God, the true Christ, the Morning Star, the Rock we stand on, the Tree of Life.

Satan is: The fake, the instead of christ (anti-christ), Lucifer (the fake morning star), the rock of offence, the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He pretends to be Christ to deceive the world!


Deuteronomy 32:31 for their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.


The arrival of Christ at His 2nd Advent:
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse; and He That sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.

The arrival of instead of christ, playing like he is our Saviour:
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold, a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


He will conquer many because they don't know Satan comes first. They will believe he is Christ and he will be so good at what he does that Jesus shortened the time he was here....for the sake of His elect. Satan's tribulation of deception will be very, very powerful.


.......Whirlwind
Simple
Luk 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

Dayspring is the rising sun and stars.
JLM
QUOTE (Father Onesimus @ Oct 18 2007, 06:55 AM) *
Friend, if he had no nail prints in his hands and feet, he is merely a fraud. When Christ returns, as recorded by the Prophet Zechariah, they will ask Him, "What are these wounds in your hands." The only Jesus Christ will be the One Who bears these marks.

No matter who this 'male child' you met was, he WAS NOT our Lord.


I will start with "Father Onesimus".

No man should call anyone "FATHER" let alone themselves, as there is but one "FATHER", GOD, which the bible clearly states!!!

To imply that my initial post states that the Male Child is, as you say in so many words, our savior, redeemer, thus than "LORD" is a lie!! From such a one who willfully calls himself "Father", I should expect no less than proof that your Father is Satan, the FATHER of ALL Lies.

JLM
QUOTE (SpiritFilledOne @ Oct 18 2007, 09:36 AM) *
QUOTE (JLM @ Oct 18 2007, 06:58 AM) *

This is simply to air what I have learned about this mystery known as the male child of the bible book Revelation.

The first thing I now know is that all prior bible commentary about this male child is in error. Nearly all see him as Christ Jesus which this book being a prophecy of things yet to come, thus does not look backwards to reveal things we already know, but into the future as yet pertaining to the unknown. The closer we get to these prophecies being fulfilled the more clearly we all should be able to see these things mentioned as becoming a reality.

Back in May of 1953 the male child of bible prophecy was found. The Roman Catholic Church had a very large reward offered for the descovery of a special spiritually gifted male that at that time should still be a very young child. It was not revealed that they were simply following bible prophecy about this special child being born of Jewish stock and rightful blood heir to the Davidic throne. From that time to the present he has been a very highly guarded secret of not only the Catholic church but by the various world leaders as well.

In the late sixties I was drafted an assigned to work in Secret Operations here in the United States and elsewhere around the world. Once again this issue of the male child was revealed to me as he also worked in Secret Operations as well, then being known as the world's best operative. He still does to this day, however on an independant bases. I just didn't get to learn about him, I actually got to know him personally and still do. Back than it just didn't mean all that much to me as I was not at all that well informed as to his very special standing as the male child of the bible. Several years ago I developed heart failure an actually died and was of course revived and began a more serious interest in my own personal relationship with God and his word, the bible. I had real problems as most everyone else does with bible prophecy and God's words of Revelation. God than had me recall what I had learned about this male child as a small child myself and how I had gotten to know him while in the service as well. That is simply how I became aware of this male child's importance. All bible commentary stated once again that this was Christ Jesus. God simply allowed me to see how the prophecies that pertain not only to the advent of His only begotten son, Christ Jesus, were mistakenly overlooked as pertaining to this male child as well. This was something the Roman Catholic Church knew and on high, and very few others as they always kept this as most secret. Going back through all these prophecies everyone else states that they pertain to Christ Jesus and to Christ Jesus alone I could than more clearly see how they do differ as to Christ Jesus and the Male Child. Both seem very much the same until you know that one, Christ Jesus is the first to come to establish His Kingdom of Heaven. The second, Male Child, advent is prophecied for these last days and the Davidic Kingdom to be established upon this earth. This Davidic Kingdom upon this earth is patterned after Christ Jesus's Kingdom of Heaven.

As I now read through all these prophecies of both the old and new testament about these two more clearly seen kingdoms of God, one in heaven and the other established upon this earth, I also see the distiction between Christ Jesus and this Male Child as well. Christ Jesus is the Lamb of God, the Male Child is the Lion of the tribe of Judah. Christ Jesus is the only begotten son of God who's kingdom is of heaven. The Male Child is an adopted son of God via the blood of the Lamb, Christ Jesus and flesh and blood heir to the throne of David, just as God had promised that there would always be an especially in these last days.

The bible book Revelation clearly states in chapter twelve that as Israel becomes a nation once again, a flesh and blood heir to the throne of David will be born as well. As prophecy has clearly stated, the Male Child would be a spiritually gifted man of war, unlike the peace and love of God, Christ Jesus. God will establish the Kingdom of David upon this earth by force, the tribulation is all about God fulfilling His words of prophecy and promise. The Church Age ends with the post-tribulation rapture. The Davidic Kingdom of God upon this earth, thus begins as per all of God's words of prophecy and promise. The Male Child is a Messianic Jew of the tribe of Judah with many spiritual gifts and a man of war, just like King David. This Male Child is known in Gods' words of the bible by many names. Male Child, Prince of Israel, Son of God, Son of Man, Restrainer, Sword of God, Lord of Righteous, King of Kings of this earth and Lord of Lords of this earth, and many more.

The importance of knowing just who the Male Child is does make a great deal of differance. If you are one expecting Christ Jesus to return in the flesh, you will be most easly lead astray by another with supernatural gifts claiming to be Christ Jesus though he is nothing other than an Anti-Christ. In these last days, Satan and all those that are his will be cast to the earth. Many flesh and blood people will become demonically possessed and display supernaural abilities and as I expect and all others as well should, claiming to be Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus returns in the clouds that His "GLORY" creates for those that are His to be raptured into heaven. The Male Child is a flesh and blood human being with supernatural gifts from God to exercise God's righteous judgments upon this earth and to establish his kingdom upon this earth for the glory of God. Don't expect this Male Child to answer your call, call upon God and God alone as Father, Son and Holy Spirit to answer all your prayers. The Male Child will be found as supernatural protection for all of Israel, the land and it's people, as God's words foretell. The exact idenity of the Male Child isn't important as God's words clearly states he has a name nobody knows but God. What is important to know is that a flesh and blood heir of the throne of David will be and is now present and preparing to establish God's kingdom upon this earth by supernatural force. That is all.


When someone is so far away from truth, how can anyone bring them back to the truth?

The things that you have posted here, are really fantasy and I just dont see any sound doctrine at all.

A lot of you just giving an opinion (that is really reaching the limits of reality) without any foundation of
scripture.

Please, In the name of the Lord, Jesus, seek Him and His righteousness and let Him lead you into ALL truth.

In CHrist,
Chris


"Spirit Filled One"

You are not!

I, at one time was as blind as you. I thank God for my neardeath experiance for having drawing me near to God and His WORD. Yes, God did treat me in a special way with this enlightenment. At first, as I would expect any and all others to react the very self same way as I initially did, that is in total disbelief. However God"s Words, the bible, is every more clearly known and seen by myself now and as I hope and pray for all other to see as I now do. Once again, ever so much more clearly now as this hour of the Male Child's reign draws near and is upon us all.
JLM
QUOTE (Stephen @ Oct 18 2007, 01:09 PM) *
To the originator of this post:

All can be assured that the "male child" in Revelation 12 describes the Lord's first advent ..... and He is coming back to this earth to rule His millennial kingdom in person. I could post Scripture after Scripture refuting any other ideas.

You are either misinterpreting the Bible and not realizing it, have been mislead by others, or you are purposly creating deception for some reason. I hope it is not the last motivation for your sake. What you have suggested sounds very much like a scoffer of the last days.


"Stephen"

You have yet to be a man of your word. I have yet to see any scripture post that my Godly view and insight into just who the Male Child is, that you so claim so easlily to refute!
JLM
QUOTE (BrotherJon @ Oct 18 2007, 10:39 PM) *
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Anyone can read the letter of a parable..........it takes revelation from God to see the Spiritual truth. Religion is bondage and Mary is not the mother of the church. The catholic "mary" is none other than Ishtar-Isis-Inanna-Diana-Semiramis from Babylonian Goddess worship. Ancient fertility rites with the image of madonna and child date back to the tower of Babel. She is called Asherah in 1 Kings 18...the "Queen of Heaven" is condemned by God in the scriptures.....

Also- Israel NEVER clothed themselves "with the sun"....the woman is the true church that brings Mature disciples to fruition- the 144,000 are this body- the first fruits--Christ in His Body made up of thousands as the scriptures teach.....sad that so many are in bondage to Babylonian false religion. God calls His people OUT...to come OUT of HER......The Popes support the New World Order--they support evolution--they hide homosexual pedophiles and pay hush money----wickedness. Come out of HER and be separate.


"Brother Jon"

I will answer you with your very self same post.

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unot them, Because it was given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

The "you" means myself, the "them" in Christ Jesus's reply means you and all others who disbelieve, thus than not to know truth when they see it, as being "blind"!
JLM
Please go to new post where I will explain as best I can on how I now see more clearly just who this Male Child is.
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