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PehJeshua
QUOTE(togarma @ Sep 27 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]122827[/snapback]

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 27 2007, 01:14 AM) [snapback]122825[/snapback]

With sorrow in heart
PJ



Poor you PehJeshua, spending your time explaining the Bible the way you look at it - with disbeleive.
You see, yet youīre blind, you hear, yet youīre deaf, you understand, yet you donīt.

You donīt want any of us to teach you or point to anything - you are here to attack us all - that is your mission.


Iīm not being judgemental, Iīm just being frank - telling you the obvious according to all the text you wrote.

After your own words - Be sad at heart, be very sad.


1dsz5f1.gif


Dear poor you, Togarma,

Yes, I have expounded Scripture, that is true, but can you please show me and all what things are wrong, in your opinion, of what I have told, instead of just implying that I am in error. So teach me if you have anything better! I am listening. Tell me what the kingdom of God is that Scripture foretells, and what the beast is etc. Tell the truth about the man child and let me know that way that I have been blind. Dont just imply and make guesses.

If it is obvious from what I have written that I am blind and poor I ask you to enlarge on those texts that I might have misunderstood.

With sorrow in heart
PJ

It is a sorrow to see that most of humankind is living without the light and mercy of God because of falsehood and sin.
togarma
QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 27 2007, 04:20 AM) [snapback]122828[/snapback]

Yes, I have expounded Scripture, that is true, but can you please show me and all what things are wrong, in your opinion, of what I have told



My opinion is worthless without a guide - and my guide is the Holy Bible.

My answer is: What your heart is filled of, comes out your mouth.

And your heart is filled with hate because you attack and attack and attack, wanting the Bible we beleive in suit your mind and attack us because we beleive the Bible litteraly and the Bible codes - and you dont.


Based on that observation alone - I can tell that we have different spirits dwelling from our heart - but I am willing to beleive that you want to see the truth - that you are searching for the truth.

If you can watch this video and beleive all the preacher says it is real easy to beleive the rest of the Bible.

on the other hand - if you watch the video and disagree with him - I will say, you donīt understand much.

PehJeshua
QUOTE(togarma @ Sep 27 2007, 12:45 PM) [snapback]122830[/snapback]

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 27 2007, 04:20 AM) [snapback]122828[/snapback]

Yes, I have expounded Scripture, that is true, but can you please show me and all what things are wrong, in your opinion, of what I have told



My opinion is worthless without a guide - and my guide is the Holy Bible.

My answer is: What your heart is filled of, comes out your mouth.

And your heart is filled with hate because you attack and attack and attack, wanting the Bible we beleive in suit your mind and attack us because we beleive the Bible litteraly and the Bible codes - and you dont.


Based on that observation alone - I can tell that we have different spirits dwelling from our heart - but I am willing to beleive that you want to see the truth - that you are searching for the truth.

If you can watch this video and beleive all the preacher says it is real easy to beleive the rest of the Bible.

on the other hand - if you watch the video and disagree with him - I will say, you donīt understand much.


Dear Togarma,

You still go on implying without substantiating your words, and that is no honest way. Yes, my heart is filled with hate - that is I HATE FALSEHOOD. I dont hate the truth but love it. Well, stop insinuating but come instead forth and show what false things I have said against for instance you and Charlie. You wrote this, which is FALSEHOOD, and that I hate, for I hate falsehood:

QUOTE
Look at this timeline:

Year X before Christ-----World-Register (Pre Beast)---Maria-Pregnand---Bethlehem---Birth Of Jesus----Year 2000---2007 Mark of the Beast----2009/2010 Jesus comes back (according to the Biblecode)


The samarithan payd for 2 days = 2000 years, then he would come back.

And he would shorten the times in the end-times (I think it is because we changed our calendar 7 years ahead)


Can you prove that the time period 2000-2007 has got anything to do with the mark of the beast? No, you cannot, for it is falsehood from hell. If I am wrong, then take up Scripture as your sword and prove that I am wrong, if you can. No, you cannot, you lier, so stop making believe. And your so-called biblecode is from the Devil. That I dare tell you since I am the witness of God.

With sorrow in heart
PJ
togarma
QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 27 2007, 07:49 AM) [snapback]122839[/snapback]

QUOTE(togarma @ Sep 27 2007, 12:45 PM) [snapback]122830[/snapback]

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 27 2007, 04:20 AM) [snapback]122828[/snapback]

Yes, I have expounded Scripture, that is true, but can you please show me and all what things are wrong, in your opinion, of what I have told



My opinion is worthless without a guide - and my guide is the Holy Bible.

My answer is: What your heart is filled of, comes out your mouth.

And your heart is filled with hate because you attack and attack and attack, wanting the Bible we beleive in suit your mind and attack us because we beleive the Bible litteraly and the Bible codes - and you dont.


Based on that observation alone - I can tell that we have different spirits dwelling from our heart - but I am willing to beleive that you want to see the truth - that you are searching for the truth.

If you can watch this video and beleive all the preacher says it is real easy to beleive the rest of the Bible.

on the other hand - if you watch the video and disagree with him - I will say, you donīt understand much.


Dear Togarma,

You still go on implying without substantiating your words, and that is no honest way. Yes, my heart is filled with hate - that is I HATE FALSEHOOD. I dont hate the truth but love it. Well, stop insinuating but come instead forth and show what false things I have said against for instance you and Charlie. You wrote this, which is FALSEHOOD, and that I hate, for I hate falsehood:

QUOTE
Look at this timeline:

Year X before Christ-----World-Register (Pre Beast)---Maria-Pregnand---Bethlehem---Birth Of Jesus----Year 2000---2007 Mark of the Beast----2009/2010 Jesus comes back (according to the Biblecode)


The samarithan payd for 2 days = 2000 years, then he would come back.

And he would shorten the times in the end-times (I think it is because we changed our calendar 7 years ahead)


Can you prove that the time period 2000-2007 has got anything to do with the mark of the beast? No, you cannot, for it is falsehood from hell. If I am wrong, then take up Scripture as your sword and prove that I am wrong, if you can. No, you cannot, you lier, so stop making believe. And your so-called biblecode is from the Devil. That I dare tell you since I am the witness of God.

With sorrow in heart
PJ



Well, Mr. Witness of God

I am convinced that the Bible Codes are the true word of God.
I can prove it from Scripture:

4Ezra.14
[6] These words shalt thou declare, and these shalt thou hide.

Dan 12
[9] And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Is the Bible lying?
Is the Bible Stupid?

You say that the Bible Codes are from the Devil, now I dispute you - The Bible Codes is the Living Word of God - I am convinced.

PehJeshua
Dear Togarma, you lost soul,

I will now answer to what you wrote in the following words:

QUOTE


Well, Mr. Witness of God

I am convinced that the Bible Codes are the true word of God.
I can prove it from Scripture:

4Ezra.14
[6] These words shalt thou declare, and these shalt thou hide.

Dan 12
[9] And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.


My answer:
What have 4 Ezra 14 and Dan 12 got to do with your Biblecodes? Can you give a good reason for equating them with Scripture? By the way, do you understand Dan 12?

You ask:
QUOTE
Is the Bible lying?
Is the Bible Stupid?


My answer:
Stop imputing to me that I ever said that the Bible is lying! I said that you are a liar and Charlie, not Scripture. And you are a liar, for you have not answered to what I challenged you to prove as to the mark of the beast!

You wrote:
QUOTE
You say that the Bible Codes are from the Devil, now I dispute you - The Bible Codes is the Living Word of God - I am convinced.


My answer:
Well, then I challenge you to prove that your so-called Bible Codes are the Living Word of God. Your conviction is no proof, so you ought to follow Col 1:28 and Col 3:16 or 2 Cor 10:5 (NIV):

"We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."

Therefore, answer to what I already have asked you about, and prove the rest, since you seem to claim that you are capable of doing that. Dont talk more rubbish that prove nothing!

With sorrow in heart
PJ
togarma
QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 27 2007, 10:32 AM) [snapback]122852[/snapback]

Dear Togarma, you lost soul,

I will now answer to what you wrote in the following words:

QUOTE


Well, Mr. Witness of God

I am convinced that the Bible Codes are the true word of God.
I can prove it from Scripture:

4Ezra.14
[6] These words shalt thou declare, and these shalt thou hide.

Dan 12
[9] And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.


My answer:
What have 4 Ezra 14 and Dan 12 got to do with your Biblecodes? Can you give a good reason for equating them with Scripture? By the way, do you understand Dan 12?

You ask:
QUOTE
Is the Bible lying?
Is the Bible Stupid?


My answer:
Stop imputing to me that I ever said that the Bible is lying! I said that you are a liar and Charlie, not Scripture. And you are a liar, for you have not answered to what I challenged you to prove as to the mark of the beast!

You wrote:
QUOTE
You say that the Bible Codes are from the Devil, now I dispute you - The Bible Codes is the Living Word of God - I am convinced.


My answer:
Well, then I challenge you to prove that your so-called Bible Codes are the Living Word of God. Your conviction is no proof, so you ought to follow Col 1:28 and Col 3:16 or 2 Cor 10:5 (NIV):

"We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."

Therefore, answer to what I already have asked you about, and prove the rest, since you seem to claim that you are capable of doing that. Dont talk more rubbish that prove nothing!

With sorrow in heart
PJ


Not so - I Beleive in the Holy Bible, and I Beleive in the Biblecode.
Nothing found in the codes goes against what the Bible teach - in fact, they both confirm each other - and the text has not been tampered with - it is the old text of hebrew and old english.

Donīt you know that you are saying that the Devil wrote the Bible? Yo said that the Bible Codes are from the Devil, well how did it get there if God wrote the book? Do you even know what the Bible Codes are? And that there is some real science behind it to back it up - it is no coincidence, the codes has not been written in at a later translations - the text is from the ancient Tora - they photo copied those..

Why do I have to prove your point? Why do you shift the burden of truth? It is not me who have a problem beleiving the Holy Bible nor the Bible-code, It is you.



Now, you may have picked up a thing or two from the Bible, and then your mind have mixed it all together so it donīt make sense for you. Are you going to threaten me to Beleive your ways? Or Hate me into Loving you?


Mr. Witness of God.

The name of My God is YHVH
What is the name of your God?

Charlie
QUOTE
There is no doubt that Revelation 11:3 is mentioning two individuals that, in the beginning, are true witnessesw of God, and, later on, become true prophets of God. No group of God's people are first witnesses and then prophets,

In this writing there is one piece of truth "two individuals" the rest is added pseudo intellectual nonsense that is not true and irrelevant. Not to mention that the scripture is not even talking about groups of people.

QUOTE
and these two individuals are the horns of the Lamb by which He will fight against the fruits of the great falling-away in Christendom. According to Ecclesiastes 9:4-6 (New International Version) it is said about the bodily dead that they will NEVER AGAIN have part in anything that happen under the sun, so be convinced that the two witnesses of Rev 11:3 are two individuals.


Again we have one piece of implied truth mixed with pseudo intellectual nonsense that is non scriptural and irrelevant. The implication that the dead stay dead and are no more until God brings them back to life is the only implied truth in this writing.

Togarma is correct when he said that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. What is in the heart is what comes out of the mouth.


PehJeshua made this statement to Togarma
"You still go on implying without substantiating your words, and that is no honest way. Yes, my heart is filled with hate - that is I HATE FALSEHOOD."

I charge you PehJeshua That you have not substantiated any of your ramblings with scripture. You are not honest and your heart is filled with hate without a cause.

James 3
8 But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so.
11 Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening?
12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.
14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.
15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic.




*





shy1
QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 26 2007, 02:58 AM) [snapback]122777[/snapback]

They will not spring up from nowhere but from the north country as foretold by Zechariah and Ezekiel. They come by way of the north gate (44:4). Read Psalm 48:2.

PJ

Where exactly is the north country? Thanks,
Shy1
George
QUOTE(shy1 @ Sep 27 2007, 03:48 PM) [snapback]122875[/snapback]

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 26 2007, 02:58 AM) [snapback]122777[/snapback]

They will not spring up from nowhere but from the north country as foretold by Zechariah and Ezekiel. They come by way of the north gate (44:4). Read Psalm 48:2.

PJ

Where exactly is the north country? Thanks,
Shy1


The north country is anywhere north of where you are. Or anywhere north of where the author was. in this case the authors were in and around ancient Israel, Which would make the north country Germany or Russia even Siberia. The north country to those in the U.S. Is Canada or Alaska. Quite a broad Scope isn't it?

But the proper meaning would be the Lord's interpretation, since the Lord caused the scripture to be written and has a purpose for it.
PehJeshua
Dear Togarma,

As you ought to know I accuse you of having twisted Srcipture and of promoting falsehood, and since I have challenged your theories and pointed out what is wrong you cannot just shrug at it and go on pretending, for that is quite opposite of the ways of a God's man, as everyone can see from Scripture. Read 2 Cor 10:

"The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to DEMOLISH STRONGHOLDS. WE DEMOLISH ARGUMENTS AND EVERY PRETENSION THAT SETS ITSELF UP AGAINST THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD (e.g. your Bible codes), and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete."

Well, what are you doing then if not fleeing from your obligation to prove your arguments from Scripture? I can prove mine but you cannot yours! You are a fake from top to bottom!

You wrote:
QUOTE
Not so - I Beleive in the Holy Bible, and I Beleive in the Biblecode.
Nothing found in the codes goes against what the Bible teach - in fact, they both confirm each other - and the text has not been tampered with - it is the old text of hebrew and old english.


My answer:
Scripture is from God but the Bible code is the work of a man, Michael Drosnin, who published his book 'The Bible Code' in 1997. I already challenge the claim that the time period 2000-2007 and the mark of the beast are connected. Still you havent been able to prove your argument with Scripture. You are just awkward! Everyone can claim whatsoever, but without basis in Scripture such claims remain the figments of blind people. You are wrong, for since you cannot show that 2000-2007 and the mark of the beast are related biblically, your Bible Code things are false and against Scripture. That is for sure!

Since you mention the Hebrew text I will tell you that it is not a closed world to me. In 1 Cor 2:14 we can read the following words:

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are SPIRITUALLY discerned."

What has the Bibel Code of Michael Drosning, that are computational guesses, got to do with God's secrets, which are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED. You are following a blind man whereas I keep myself to Scripture.

You wrote:
QUOTE
Donīt you know that you are saying that the Devil wrote the Bible?


My answer:
Dont twist my words, for what I said was that your Bible Code is from the Devil. That I know since you make false claims on the basis of your belief in such a human figment.

You wrote:
QUOTE
Yo said that the Bible Codes are from the Devil, well how did it get there if God wrote the book?


My answer:
Are you being stupid, since you argue like this? You are in fact saying this:
1. He says that the Bible Code is from the Devil
2. Why do I believe in the Devil even though God wrote the book?
3 Conclusion: The Bible Code is from God (my belief proves that God's book = the Bible Code)

Your reasoning is not coherent but a mess, for you make yourself the touchstone of truth.

You wrote:
QUOTE
Do you even know what the Bible Codes are? And that there is some real science behind it to back it up - it is no coincidence, the codes has not been written in at a later translations - the text is from the ancient Tora - they photo copied those..


My answer:
Yes, they are the work of Michael Drosnin, not of any God-sent man. Scripture is not science but the Spirit of God, so stop talking rubbish!

You wrote:
QUOTE
Why do I have to prove your point? Why do you shift the burden of truth? It is not me who have a problem beleiving the Holy Bible nor the Bible-code, It is you.


My answer:
You have to prove your own arguments, not I. I prove my own arguments, not yours. I challenge your arguments instead, and you, as holy men did formerly, must prove what you claim. Otherwise you are just a false devil!

You wrote:
QUOTE
Now, you may have picked up a thing or two from the Bible, and then your mind have mixed it all together so it donīt make sense for you. Are you going to threaten me to Beleive your ways? Or Hate me into Loving you?


My answer:
Okay, if you are right about me, then prove from Scripture the points at where I am in error. Dont just insinuate! No, I am not threatening you or hating you into loving, but I am demanding from you what is seen from Scripture to be right to demand from anyone who make radical claims.

QUOTE
Mr. Witness of God.

The name of My God is YHVH
What is the name of your God?


My answer:
The name of my God is that one which is THE NEW NAME OF JESUS CHRIST (Rev 3:12) Do you know that name from your manmade Bible Code?

With sorrow in heart
PJ
togarma
QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 28 2007, 05:43 AM) [snapback]122901[/snapback]

Dear Togarma,

My answer:
The name of my God is that one which is THE NEW NAME OF JESUS CHRIST (Rev 3:12) Do you know that name from your manmade Bible Code?

With sorrow in heart
PJ



Real mathematicians have proved the Bible codes are real - and published the results in the appropriate journals. The first paper was published in Statistical Science, Vol. 9, No. 3 by Witzum, Rips and Rosenburg and it is reprinted in Michael Drosnin's book The Bible Code.

The part of the Bible that has been proved to contain code is the Torah, the Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. There is a tradition, part of the oral tradition passed down since those days, that Moses received the book directly from God, in the form of an unbroken series of 304,805 Hebrew characters, fifty days after the Exodus began.

Turning the Torah back into an unbroken string of characters turns out to be the first step in the decoding process. The Hebrew scribes have been unstinting in their resolve to keep the Torah perfect to the letter.

Strict training for scribes takes place in traditional schools with strict and unchanging instructions about how the work is done. If a single mistake were found in a copy of the Torah, then the whole manuscript would be destroyed immediately.

This warning is passed down to each scribe in training: "Should you perchance omit or add one single letter from the Torah, you would thereby destroy all the universe." The Christian New Testament points to this special care at Matthew 5:18, Jesus said: "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, nor the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (Torah) until everything is accomplished."

It was probably traditions such as these that convinced a great mathematician like Newton that there was a code hidden within the text. Many Hebrew scholars suspected the same, the Vilna Gaon a prominent 18th century rabbi (Elijah Solomon) wrote; "All that was, is, and will be unto the end of time is included in the Torah, the first five books of the Bible." The Ramban, Rabbi Moses Ben Nachman, claimed that the whole of the history of Israel was contained within The Song of Moses.

However, even for a genius like Newton, the shear size of the task involved in trying to decode a message of 304,805 characters made it impossible for him. One of the few pre-computer successes was by Rabbi H.M.D. Weissmandl of Prague. He discovered that if you take the fiftieth letter of each chapter of the Torah, it is a T, the hundredth is an O, and the hundred and fiftieth is an R, and so on to spell TORAH. This may have been designed as an easy hint for code-breakers, or as part of a verifying 'watermark' to show that the text is accurate.

This is the nature of the code that has been broken; Michael Drosnin in his book about the code used the following example of a coded English phrase with a skip of four letters.

Rips explained that each code is a case of adding every fourth or twelfth or

Once the letters are highlighted the coded message is obvious:

Rips explained that each code is a case of adding every fourth or twelfth or

As in this case, the messages encoded in the Torah are short and scattered, and they are not confined to skips of four or fifty.

By the late 1980's it was possible to write software to run on a personal computer that could reliably, and quickly, resort the whole Torah using varying skip lengths. This process brings letters next to each other that were originally separated by the skip length. This process revealed a new dimension to the coded messages. A good example of this is Michael Drosnin's discovery about Yitzhak Rabin.

Michael obtained the software necessary to search for the hidden messages. He discovered the name of the Israeli Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, with a skip length of 4,772.

Presumably, the computer had to search the entire text at every skip length from 1 through to 4772. You might expect that it should arise by chance in that much text, but there was more than just the name.

When the computer skips 4,772 characters each time, it gets from one end of the Torah to the other in 64 skips. It prints that as one line and then takes the second letter and skips through from there. This results in a grid, 4,772 by 64, containing the name Yitzhak Rabin. Inspection revealed the words "assassin will assassinate" going across his name like a crossword. Rabin was warned about the prediction, but he was assassinated a year later. Afterwards the name of the assassin, Amir, was also found to be close-by in the grid.

The early research by Doron Witztum, Eliyahu Rips and Yoav Rosenburg was published in the journal Statistical Science, Vol. 9, No 3, in1994. They first showed that names taken from the Encyclopedia of Great Men in Israel occurred encoded in the Torah, together with the dates of their lives, and the cities they lived in. They further showed that if the text was randomized, or another book used, such as a Hebrew edition of War and Peace, then nothing like it is found. They then calculated the enormous odds against the names occurring as they do by random chance.

Although it was proved mathematically, many people still refuse to believe it, preferring to rely on common sense. It would be almost impossible to write a book coded in this way, but definitely impossible to include precise details of future events. The code appears to be a miracle that has been time-locked into the Bible, waiting until the computer age.

We are indebted to Michael Drosnin for running interesting word searches and for publishing the results. Although many Hebrew academics are working on the codes they have not published very much so far. All the following examples are from Michael's book The Bible Code. The vocabulary, and dates, in the code are generally in the same format as would be used in present day Hebrew newspapers.
shy1
QUOTE(Godsloft.com @ Sep 27 2007, 07:54 PM) [snapback]122883[/snapback]

QUOTE(shy1 @ Sep 27 2007, 03:48 PM) [snapback]122875[/snapback]

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 26 2007, 02:58 AM) [snapback]122777[/snapback]

They will not spring up from nowhere but from the north country as foretold by Zechariah and Ezekiel. They come by way of the north gate (44:4). Read Psalm 48:2.

PJ

Where exactly is the north country? Thanks,
Shy1


The north country is anywhere north of where you are. Or anywhere north of where the author was. in this case the authors were in and around ancient Israel, Which would make the north country Germany or Russia even Siberia. The north country to those in the U.S. Is Canada or Alaska. Quite a broad Scope isn't it?

But the proper meaning would be the Lord's interpretation, since the Lord caused the scripture to be written and has a purpose for it.


I've thought of it as being north of Israel, but the Lord knew that there were other places than just this. I believe it's according to the Lord's interpretation, obviously, and that might not necessarily be north of Israel.
PehJeshua
QUOTE(togarma @ Sep 28 2007, 02:26 PM) [snapback]122908[/snapback]

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 28 2007, 05:43 AM) [snapback]122901[/snapback]

Dear Togarma,

My answer:
The name of my God is that one which is THE NEW NAME OF JESUS CHRIST (Rev 3:12) Do you know that name from your manmade Bible Code?

With sorrow in heart
PJ



Real mathematicians have proved the Bible codes are real - and published the results in the appropriate journals. The first paper was published in Statistical Science, Vol. 9, No. 3 by Witzum, Rips and Rosenburg and it is reprinted in Michael Drosnin's book The Bible Code.

The part of the Bible that has been proved to contain code is the Torah, the Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. There is a tradition, part of the oral tradition passed down since those days, that Moses received the book directly from God, in the form of an unbroken series of 304,805 Hebrew characters, fifty days after the Exodus began.

Turning the Torah back into an unbroken string of characters turns out to be the first step in the decoding process. The Hebrew scribes have been unstinting in their resolve to keep the Torah perfect to the letter.

Strict training for scribes takes place in traditional schools with strict and unchanging instructions about how the work is done. If a single mistake were found in a copy of the Torah, then the whole manuscript would be destroyed immediately.

This warning is passed down to each scribe in training: "Should you perchance omit or add one single letter from the Torah, you would thereby destroy all the universe." The Christian New Testament points to this special care at Matthew 5:18, Jesus said: "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, nor the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (Torah) until everything is accomplished."

It was probably traditions such as these that convinced a great mathematician like Newton that there was a code hidden within the text. Many Hebrew scholars suspected the same, the Vilna Gaon a prominent 18th century rabbi (Elijah Solomon) wrote; "All that was, is, and will be unto the end of time is included in the Torah, the first five books of the Bible." The Ramban, Rabbi Moses Ben Nachman, claimed that the whole of the history of Israel was contained within The Song of Moses.

However, even for a genius like Newton, the shear size of the task involved in trying to decode a message of 304,805 characters made it impossible for him. One of the few pre-computer successes was by Rabbi H.M.D. Weissmandl of Prague. He discovered that if you take the fiftieth letter of each chapter of the Torah, it is a T, the hundredth is an O, and the hundred and fiftieth is an R, and so on to spell TORAH. This may have been designed as an easy hint for code-breakers, or as part of a verifying 'watermark' to show that the text is accurate.

This is the nature of the code that has been broken; Michael Drosnin in his book about the code used the following example of a coded English phrase with a skip of four letters.

Rips explained that each code is a case of adding every fourth or twelfth or

Once the letters are highlighted the coded message is obvious:

Rips explained that each code is a case of adding every fourth or twelfth or

As in this case, the messages encoded in the Torah are short and scattered, and they are not confined to skips of four or fifty.

By the late 1980's it was possible to write software to run on a personal computer that could reliably, and quickly, resort the whole Torah using varying skip lengths. This process brings letters next to each other that were originally separated by the skip length. This process revealed a new dimension to the coded messages. A good example of this is Michael Drosnin's discovery about Yitzhak Rabin.

Michael obtained the software necessary to search for the hidden messages. He discovered the name of the Israeli Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, with a skip length of 4,772.

Presumably, the computer had to search the entire text at every skip length from 1 through to 4772. You might expect that it should arise by chance in that much text, but there was more than just the name.

When the computer skips 4,772 characters each time, it gets from one end of the Torah to the other in 64 skips. It prints that as one line and then takes the second letter and skips through from there. This results in a grid, 4,772 by 64, containing the name Yitzhak Rabin. Inspection revealed the words "assassin will assassinate" going across his name like a crossword. Rabin was warned about the prediction, but he was assassinated a year later. Afterwards the name of the assassin, Amir, was also found to be close-by in the grid.

The early research by Doron Witztum, Eliyahu Rips and Yoav Rosenburg was published in the journal Statistical Science, Vol. 9, No 3, in1994. They first showed that names taken from the Encyclopedia of Great Men in Israel occurred encoded in the Torah, together with the dates of their lives, and the cities they lived in. They further showed that if the text was randomized, or another book used, such as a Hebrew edition of War and Peace, then nothing like it is found. They then calculated the enormous odds against the names occurring as they do by random chance.

Although it was proved mathematically, many people still refuse to believe it, preferring to rely on common sense. It would be almost impossible to write a book coded in this way, but definitely impossible to include precise details of future events. The code appears to be a miracle that has been time-locked into the Bible, waiting until the computer age.

We are indebted to Michael Drosnin for running interesting word searches and for publishing the results. Although many Hebrew academics are working on the codes they have not published very much so far. All the following examples are from Michael's book The Bible Code. The vocabulary, and dates, in the code are generally in the same format as would be used in present day Hebrew newspapers.


Togarma, you are lost,

The Bible Code is as I mentioned the fiction of one man, and since your bible codes make you twist Scripture it is from the Devil.

You did not prove what I asked you to prove, so you are still screaming about things that are only in your fantasy and not in Scripture.

I have not time to enlarge on these things but will come back and prove from Scripture that your Bible Code is a devilish fiction by which you try to replace the Holy Scripture.

With sorrow in heart
PJ

QUOTE(shy1 @ Sep 28 2007, 07:19 PM) [snapback]122933[/snapback]

QUOTE(Godsloft.com @ Sep 27 2007, 07:54 PM) [snapback]122883[/snapback]

QUOTE(shy1 @ Sep 27 2007, 03:48 PM) [snapback]122875[/snapback]

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 26 2007, 02:58 AM) [snapback]122777[/snapback]

They will not spring up from nowhere but from the north country as foretold by Zechariah and Ezekiel. They come by way of the north gate (44:4). Read Psalm 48:2.

PJ

Where exactly is the north country? Thanks,
Shy1


The north country is anywhere north of where you are. Or anywhere north of where the author was. in this case the authors were in and around ancient Israel, Which would make the north country Germany or Russia even Siberia. The north country to those in the U.S. Is Canada or Alaska. Quite a broad Scope isn't it?

But the proper meaning would be the Lord's interpretation, since the Lord caused the scripture to be written and has a purpose for it.


Dear Shy1,

I will come back in about 5 days time and explain these things to you. Right now I am very busy in my job.

See you, and God bless you!

With sorrow in heart
PJ

I've thought of it as being north of Israel, but the Lord knew that there were other places than just this. I believe it's according to the Lord's interpretation, obviously, and that might not necessarily be north of Israel.

togarma
QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Oct 1 2007, 03:56 AM) [snapback]123072[/snapback]


Togarma, you are lost,

The Bible Code is as I mentioned the fiction of one man, and since your bible codes make you twist Scripture it is from the Devil.

You did not prove what I asked you to prove, so you are still screaming about things that are only in your fantasy and not in Scripture.

I have not time to enlarge on these things but will come back and prove from Scripture that your Bible Code is a devilish fiction by which you try to replace the Holy Scripture.

With sorrow in heart
PJ


No PehJeshua, I am not lost - It is just... You are wrong about almost everything you say - and you really look like a fool the way you try and explain things after your knowledge. It looks like you donīt understand anything at all. Not even the smallest things.

I am not rude saying what I say? If so, forgive me - But it is the truth, your lack of Bible Knowledge and False doctrines makes the words you write in this thread seem whicked.

George
QUOTE(togarma @ Oct 1 2007, 02:51 AM) [snapback]123074[/snapback]

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Oct 1 2007, 03:56 AM) [snapback]123072[/snapback]


Togarma, you are lost,

The Bible Code is as I mentioned the fiction of one man, and since your bible codes make you twist Scripture it is from the Devil.

You did not prove what I asked you to prove, so you are still screaming about things that are only in your fantasy and not in Scripture.

I have not time to enlarge on these things but will come back and prove from Scripture that your Bible Code is a devilish fiction by which you try to replace the Holy Scripture.

With sorrow in heart
PJ


No PehJeshua, I am not lost - It is just... You are wrong about almost everything you say - and you really look like a fool the way you try and explain things after your knowledge. It looks like you donīt understand anything at all. Not even the smallest things.

I am not rude saying what I say? If so, forgive me - But it is the truth, your lack of Bible Knowledge and False doctrines makes the words you write in this thread seem whicked.


All of the babblers and fools have to be there to.
They are also part of the Lords plan to lead the residue off to the place prepared for the devil and it's followers.
There are those created for Honor and those created for dishonor. Some one has to play the part, wear those shoes, fill the seat.
But Jack came back to teach more nonsense, not to be taught righteousness.
The Spirit of God is discerned by this type, so they suppose that the spirit of man is the Spirit of God, being lead around by their vain flesh.
jason benoit
togarma are you insulting people again!?!

If you expect to live with God's people you have to act like a child of God!

Not someone who thinks he's always right!
togarma
QUOTE(jason benoit @ Oct 2 2007, 05:04 AM) [snapback]123161[/snapback]

togarma are you insulting people again!?!



No, I am not insulting anyone - PJ is wrong in everything he claims. He is in fact insulting me, but I donīt hold that against him.

I want him to look at the Bible and beleive it - but all he do is argue, twisting my words and claim that the Bible Codes are from the devil.


QUOTE(jason benoit @ Oct 2 2007, 05:04 AM) [snapback]123161[/snapback]

If you expect to live with God's people you have to act like a child of God!
Not someone who thinks he's always right!



That is where you are dead wrong my friend.
I donīt act like a child of God - I AM a Child of God!

Mabe you have seen to many hollywood movies - that is Acting.

George
QUOTE(togarma @ Oct 2 2007, 05:10 AM) [snapback]123165[/snapback]




That is where you are dead wrong my friend.
I donīt act like a child of God - I AM a Child of God!

Mabe you have seen to many hollywood movies - that is Acting.


1dsz5h3.gif wink.gif
George
Ephesians 5
1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children.

Romans 8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
shy1
QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 7 2007, 11:03 PM) [snapback]121231[/snapback]

The secret about these things will soon be revealed to the whole world for a warning and to admonish mankind back to the folds of true Christendom and, at the same time, to refute the lies of falsehood that have for such a long time held people in spiritual captivity.
Greetings to whoever loves the coming of our Lord!
PehJeshua

By the two witnesses themselves?

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 17 2007, 01:31 AM) [snapback]122019[/snapback]

Dear Shy1,

In the love of God who called me I tell you that what I write here is the true meaning of the Scripture and part of the everlasting gospel that leads me.

The two witnesses are two people living now, and they are likened to two of the living creatures in the book of Revelation. With a caring heart
PehJeshua

This is what I believe. I do not believe that two OT prophets will come back, nor that the two witnesses represent groups of people.

I also believe that we will all be here during the 42 months of the witnesses, though most people here believe differently.

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 17 2007, 03:43 AM) [snapback]122023[/snapback]

Before the outbreak of the great tribulation which is the definite end of the beast's rule the two witnesses will appear on the scene and tell all the world what is hidden in the book of God. This is done because God will save as many people as possible, and to remove all excuses from them who wont turn away from their sins. When the end comes sinners will not be able to excuse themselves by saying: We didnt know about these things! Of course they will know, for God will give them a final warning!

This is the way I see it. I have pictured them in Israel during their whole time, but their message will be for everyone. I even go so far as to think that they will be shown worldwide on news networks, and that possibly everyone will be able to understand them in their own language, no matter what language the two are actually speaking.

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 18 2007, 03:05 AM) [snapback]122112[/snapback]

If a witness of God talks, what he says must be true since he is indeed a true witness. Should what he says be opposed to by a person who is not a witness, then we have a situation where falsehood stands against the truth, or we could say that the opponent of truth is trying to do harm to the truthful witness and his testimony. What then happens is that the true witness opens his mouth on the basis of Scripture and REFUTES the lies of his opponent(s), and in this manner there comes a fire out of his mouth and kills his opponent. This is exactly what Psalm 149 is all about, and this is the way of God's witnesses.

Listen, the two witnesses are sent to defend the elect and to guide them through the lies of Satan, and that will be their foremost work.

Agreed--but are these elect both Jew and Gentile, or just one or the other?
Humble Bob
QUOTE(excubitor @ Sep 19 2007, 06:02 AM) [snapback]122223[/snapback]

You forgot to mention the man-child C.

ah ha-ha-ha-ha..ha-ha laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
Charlie

First off

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gods eyes are not on the Jews or Israel.

The Lords two witnesses are sent to the Church, world wide, where they will be rejected, mocked and treated shamefully.

It is because of the rejection that they will close up the heavens so that no rain falls on the earth for 1265 days.
It is because of their rejection that they will turn all of the water supplies on earth to blood. They will start the great tribulation by removing the entire supply of water and the entire supply of bread from the earth for 3 and 1/2 years.

They will be able to walk between continents and over long distances in one mourning, By the Power of the Spirit of God, Just like Jonah did on his way to Nineveh. They will have barely encompassed the whole globe when it will be time to lay down their life for their Lord and Savior, To purge them and make them white.






*

PehJeshua
QUOTE

By the two witnesses themselves?

My answer:
Dear Shy1, yes, the testimony will be proclaimed by the two witnesses in the beginning but more people will join in after hearing and believing in the testimony of these witnesses.

QUOTE

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 17 2007, 01:31 AM) [snapback]122019[/snapback]

Dear Shy1,

In the love of God who called me I tell you that what I write here is the true meaning of the Scripture and part of the everlasting gospel that leads me.

The two witnesses are two people living now, and they are likened to two of the living creatures in the book of Revelation. With a caring heart
PehJeshua

QUOTE

This is what I believe. I do not believe that two OT prophets will come back, nor that the two witnesses represent groups of people.

My answer:
No, they cannot be a group of people but the two person who Jesus mentions in Matthew 20:23. Also the two cherubim that in Ex 25:17-22 foretells these two people:

"Make an atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide. And MAKE THE TWO CHERUBIM out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover. Place the cover on top of the ark and put in the ark the Testimony, which I will give you. There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the Testimony, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites."

Notice that the cherubim are part of the ATONEMENT COVER, which means that if any person hate them and oppose their testimony God's mercy will leave that same person and heaven be closed to him, and the full measure of God's wrath will eventually befall him. This is the true meaning of Rev 11:6:

"These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want."

Turning the waters into blood means that they reveal false doctrine and refutes from Scripture, and that will amount to every kind of plague to a fallen mankind, which believes in thousands of devilish doctrines. Also the physical and visible plagues that finally come as a judgement from God on those who dont believe, are included.

Notice that the two cherubim should be placed at the ends of the cover, which is actually the same biblical fact as we can read about them in Dan 12:5, for Daniel saw them standing on both sides of the river of life, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. You see that they are the start and end of God's mercy after the great falling-away, so therefore one is mentioned in Dan 8:13, asking the angel of water (the man child in Rev 12:5).

QUOTE

I also believe that we will all be here during the 42 months of the witnesses, though most people here believe differently.


My answer:
Yes, all people who are not bodily dead will hear them or hear about them but most will be negligent, for these two men look quite different from what they really are. The only way to "see" them is by the medium of Scripture, following the rule of Acts 17:11. Those who scorn their testimony will be those who fall in the hour of TEMPTATION or trial (Rev 3:11). They let the Devil convince themselves that the two witnesses are no true witnesses or prophets.

QUOTE

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 17 2007, 03:43 AM) [snapback]122023[/snapback]

Before the outbreak of the great tribulation which is the definite end of the beast's rule the two witnesses will appear on the scene and tell all the world what is hidden in the book of God. This is done because God will save as many people as possible, and to remove all excuses from them who wont turn away from their sins. When the end comes sinners will not be able to excuse themselves by saying: We didnt know about these things! Of course they will know, for God will give them a final warning!

This is the way I see it. I have pictured them in Israel during their whole time, but their message will be for everyone. I even go so far as to think that they will be shown worldwide on news networks, and that possibly everyone will be able to understand them in their own language, no matter what language the two are actually speaking.


My answer:
Their language will be at least the English language, which is a world language, like the Greek was at the time when the gospel came and NT time ushered in. They will not be in Israel because their testimony is given in the time of the Gentiles, more specifically in the time of the 6th trumpet (Rev 9:13) and the sixth seal (Rev 6:12), but of course BEFORE the four angels of destruction are released (Rev 9:14). Yes, their message will be for everyone, both Gentiles and Jews, but Scripture foretells that only individual Jews will pay heed.

QUOTE

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 18 2007, 03:05 AM) [snapback]122112[/snapback]

If a witness of God talks, what he says must be true since he is indeed a true witness. Should what he says be opposed to by a person who is not a witness, then we have a situation where falsehood stands against the truth, or we could say that the opponent of truth is trying to do harm to the truthful witness and his testimony. What then happens is that the true witness opens his mouth on the basis of Scripture and REFUTES the lies of his opponent(s), and in this manner there comes a fire out of his mouth and kills his opponent. This is exactly what Psalm 149 is all about, and this is the way of God's witnesses.

Listen, the two witnesses are sent to defend the elect and to guide them through the lies of Satan, and that will be their foremost work.

Agreed--but are these elect both Jew and Gentile, or just one or the other?



My answer:
They are mostly Gentiles but Jews who believe are not excluded, though, as a people Israel will not believe, for their time of regeneration is not yet come. It comes with the sounding of the 7th trumpet (Rev 10:7) and the opening of the 7th seal (Rev 8:1).

With greetings
PJ
PehJeshua
QUOTE(charlie @ Oct 6 2007, 10:06 AM) [snapback]123494[/snapback]

First off

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gods eyes are not on the Jews or Israel.


Dear Charlie,

God has not forgotten His promises to Israel, so therefore all Scripture shows us that there is a time set off for Israel, namely the last half of the so-called Millennium. That biblical fact you can see in Rom 11:11:

"Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!"

QUOTE

The Lords two witnesses are sent to the Church, world wide, where they will be rejected, mocked and treated shamefully.


My answer:
They are not sent only to the Church but also to the world at large. The Church is now mixed with the World as to make a complex of evil. That oneness will be hit by the wrath of God when He releases the gentile nations to wage war on one another. In Isa 19:1-2 we can read the following prophecy:

"The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom."

'Egyptians' means Gentile nations, for there shall be "kingdom against kingdom".

QUOTE

It is because of the rejection that they will close up the heavens so that no rain falls on the earth for 1265 days.


My answer:
There will fall natural rain in their days, for what is meant is the spiritual rain or grace of God. On the contrary, there will be floods in the days of the witnesses, so you are wrong in your literal understanding.

QUOTE

It is because of their rejection that they will turn all of the water supplies on earth to blood. They will start the great tribulation by removing the entire supply of water and the entire supply of bread from the earth for 3 and 1/2 years.


My answer:
No, the two witnesses will not start the great tribulation, so you are wrong again. The great tribulation will come after their "death", when their time of witnessing is ended, so those who start the great tribulation are called "red (or bay) horses" in Zech 6:7. These horses are, specifically, two great nations, but at large all four are included in the redness.

QUOTE

QUOTE

They will be able to walk between continents and over long distances in one mourning, By the Power of the Spirit of God, Just like Jonah did on his way to Nineveh. They will have barely encompassed the whole globe when it will be time to lay down their life for their Lord and Savior, To purge them and make them white.


*





My answer:
That is just fabrication of your own, and it is totally unbiblical. The two witnesses will not walk on natural water, and if they are not purged before they start witnessing publically they are by no means true witnesses. So, why do you teach lies against the Bible?

With sorrow in heart
PJ
PehJeshua
QUOTE

Where exactly is the north country? Thanks,
Shy1

I've thought of it as being north of Israel, but the Lord knew that there were other places than just this. I believe it's according to the Lord's interpretation, obviously, and that might not necessarily be north of Israel.


My answer:
When we open the Bible to read Zech 61-8 we find that there come four spirits out of the two mountains of bronze, which are OT and NT. The powerful horse are red and finally go throughout the world (ha-aratz). Red means war and judgement, so when these horses go out Rev 9:14 is fulfilled and also Isa 24. Before that happens the the black horse go first to the north country and then follow the white horse, and in verse is explained that these horse give rest to God's spirit in the north country. The rest is mentioned in Heb 4:10 and 14:13. The dead who die from their labour are, first, sinners who die from their state of sin spiritually, as explained in rom 6:7. Secondly, when the person who is spiritually dead from sin dies bodily he or she will be blessed, but it must happen "from now on", which means in the faith of the everlasting gospel. Well, the black hoses, which symbolize judgement, go to the north country to make a place for the Lord in people's heart, which is that the Law kills the dominion of sin (song of Moses, Rev 15:3) in their heart. The white horses mean that when the dominion of sin is destroyed in people's heart (Hos 13:13) by the law, God will settle with His spirit in those who believe (song of the Lamb; Rev 15:3):

"I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes."

When the power of sin is destroyed the spirit of the good Lord will come into people's heart and rest there, being their fulfillment of God's law.

Well, this takes place in the hearts of the two witnesses, and that is why I Ezek 1:4-5 reveals that the living creatures (cherubim) come from the north:

"And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of tTHE NORTH north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.

Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man."

The red horses will go throughout the world (earth), so therefore we understand that 'north' means the northern part of our earth. According Psalm 48:2 the rest place of the Lord is in the far north (from Israel). The fact is that now the everlasting gospel is in the north of Europe, in Scandinavia. When we compare Isa 42:25 with Rev 7:2 we will see that the angel with God's seal comes from the north country in spite of it being said that he comes from the RISING OF THE SUN. Many people have misunderstood 'the rising of the sun' to be 'east', but it means that the Lord will rise to judgement from the north (Isa 42:25):

"I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay."

He is also mentioned in Rev 2:27-28 and is the man child of Rev 12:5. The morning star which he receives by faith is Jesus Christ, and thus this messenger comes from the rising of the sun, that is, he ushers in the time of 6th seal and trumpet and the Millennium.

He is mentioned in Ezek 1:4 and 9:2. So, the north country is definitely mentioned in Scripture and is Scandinavia, from where comes the two witnesses, even though the gathering starts from the west (Isa 43:5).

With God's grace
PJ
Charlie
QUOTE
Dear Charlie,

God has not forgotten His promises to Israel, so therefore all Scripture shows us that there is a time set off for Israel, namely the last half of the so-called Millennium. That biblical fact you can see in Rom 11:11:


1 John 2
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.



The Lord God made the promises to Abraham, A man of faith.
The Lord God fulfilled His Promises through The man of faith's seed who is Christ.

Only those who are of faith in Christ are Israel.

The only promises that the Lord God made to the antichrist, is bitter destruction.

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Oct 7 2007, 11:13 AM) [snapback]123594[/snapback]

QUOTE(charlie @ Oct 6 2007, 10:06 AM) [snapback]123494[/snapback]

First off

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gods eyes are not on the Jews or Israel.


Dear Charlie,

God has not forgotten His promises to Israel, so therefore all Scripture shows us that there is a time set off for Israel, namely the last half of the so-called Millennium. That biblical fact you can see in Rom 11:11:

"Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!"

QUOTE

The Lords two witnesses are sent to the Church, world wide, where they will be rejected, mocked and treated shamefully.


My answer:
They are not sent only to the Church but also to the world at large. The Church is now mixed with the World as to make a complex of evil. That oneness will be hit by the wrath of God when He releases the gentile nations to wage war on one another. In Isa 19:1-2 we can read the following prophecy:

"The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom."

'Egyptians' means Gentile nations, for there shall be "kingdom against kingdom".

QUOTE

It is because of the rejection that they will close up the heavens so that no rain falls on the earth for 1265 days.


My answer:
There will fall natural rain in their days, for what is meant is the spiritual rain or grace of God. On the contrary, there will be floods in the days of the witnesses, so you are wrong in your literal understanding.

QUOTE

It is because of their rejection that they will turn all of the water supplies on earth to blood. They will start the great tribulation by removing the entire supply of water and the entire supply of bread from the earth for 3 and 1/2 years.


My answer:
No, the two witnesses will not start the great tribulation, so you are wrong again. The great tribulation will come after their "death", when their time of witnessing is ended, so those who start the great tribulation are called "red (or bay) horses" in Zech 6:7. These horses are, specifically, two great nations, but at large all four are included in the redness.

QUOTE

QUOTE

They will be able to walk between continents and over long distances in one mourning, By the Power of the Spirit of God, Just like Jonah did on his way to Nineveh. They will have barely encompassed the whole globe when it will be time to lay down their life for their Lord and Savior, To purge them and make them white.


*





My answer:
That is just fabrication of your own, and it is totally unbiblical. The two witnesses will not walk on natural water, and if they are not purged before they start witnessing publically they are by no means true witnesses. So, why do you teach lies against the Bible?

With sorrow in heart
PJ


Get ready for it PJ because it will come to pass.
Young men will vanish in smoke at the two witnesses rebuke.
The oceans seas and all water supplies will turn to blood like the blood of a dead man.
The blood will rot and stink and harden.
The Smell will be hard to bare, over the face of the whole earth.
Every living thing in the waters will die.
All electricity will cease world wide and nuclear power plants will melt down and kill many.
Everyones enemy will be their neighbor.
They will take your life to feed themselves.
When the Lord removes the supply and the support from planet earth.
PehJeshua
QUOTE(charlie @ Oct 7 2007, 10:26 PM) [snapback]123605[/snapback]



Get ready for it PJ because it will come to pass.
Young men will vanish in smoke at the two witnesses rebuke.
The oceans seas and all water supplies will turn to blood like the blood of a dead man.
The blood will rot and stink and harden.
The Smell will be hard to bare, over the face of the whole earth.
Every living thing in the waters will die.
All electricity will cease world wide and nuclear power plants will melt down and kill many.
Everyones enemy will be their neighbor.
They will take your life to feed themselves.
When the Lord removes the supply and the support from planet earth.


My answer:

You are talking about monsters, maybe seen to many monster films. The two witnesses are not sent to kill people but to help and save people. They are in sorrow for their fellow human beings, not bloodthirsty devils.

You end up in utter folly with your literal way of interpretation, and thus the letter kills you as foretold in Scripture.

Take care, you are not on firm ground.


With sorrow in heart
PJ
Charlie
QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Oct 7 2007, 01:58 PM) [snapback]123610[/snapback]


My answer:

You are talking about monsters, maybe seen to many monster films. The two witnesses are not sent to kill people but to help and save people. They are in sorrow for their fellow human beings, not bloodthirsty devils.

You end up in utter folly with your literal way of interpretation, and thus the letter kills you as foretold in Scripture.

Take care, you are not on firm ground.


With sorrow in heart
PJ


Is God a monster for destroying the wicked PJ? Is that How you judge the Lord?

22 For a fire is kindled by my anger, And shall burn to the lowest hell; It shall consume the earth with her increase, And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 'I will heap disasters on them; I will spend My arrows on them.
24 They shall be wasted with hunger, Devoured by pestilence and bitter destruction; I will also send against them the teeth of beasts, With the poison of serpents of the dust.
25 The sword shall destroy outside; There shall be terror within For the young man and virgin, The nursing child with the man of gray hairs.


10 The hands of the compassionate women Have cooked their own children; They became food for them In the destruction of the daughter of my people.
Charlie
Revelation 11

10 because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
Charlie
Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste, Distorts its surface And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
2 And it shall be: As with the people, so with the priest; As with the servant, so with his master; As with the maid, so with her mistress; As with the buyer, so with the seller; As with the lender, so with the borrower; As with the creditor, so with the debtor.
3 The land shall be entirely emptied and utterly plundered, For the Lord has spoken this word.
4 The earth mourns and fades away, The world languishes and fades away; The haughty people of the earth languish.
5 The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants, Because they have transgressed the laws, Changed the ordinance, Broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore the curse has devoured the earth, And those who dwell in it are desolate. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, And few men are left.
7 The new wine fails, the vine languishes, All the merry-hearted sigh.
8 The mirth of the tambourine ceases, The noise of the jubilant ends, The joy of the harp ceases.
9 They shall not drink wine with a song; Strong drink is bitter to those who drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down; Every house is shut up, so that none may go in.
11 There is a cry for wine in the streets, All joy is darkened, The mirth of the land is gone.
12 In the city desolation is left, And the gate is stricken with destruction.

9 Then I said, "I will not feed you. Let what is dying die, and what is perishing perish. Let those that are left eat each other's flesh."
PehJeshua
QUOTE(charlie @ Oct 7 2007, 11:13 PM) [snapback]123613[/snapback]

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Oct 7 2007, 01:58 PM) [snapback]123610[/snapback]


My answer:

You are talking about monsters, maybe seen to many monster films. The two witnesses are not sent to kill people but to help and save people. They are in sorrow for their fellow human beings, not bloodthirsty devils.

You end up in utter folly with your literal way of interpretation, and thus the letter kills you as foretold in Scripture.

Take care, you are not on firm ground.


With sorrow in heart
PJ


Is God a monster for destroying the wicked PJ? Is that How you judge the Lord?

22 For a fire is kindled by my anger, And shall burn to the lowest hell; It shall consume the earth with her increase, And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 'I will heap disasters on them; I will spend My arrows on them.
24 They shall be wasted with hunger, Devoured by pestilence and bitter destruction; I will also send against them the teeth of beasts, With the poison of serpents of the dust.
25 The sword shall destroy outside; There shall be terror within For the young man and virgin, The nursing child with the man of gray hairs.


10 The hands of the compassionate women Have cooked their own children; They became food for them In the destruction of the daughter of my people.


Poor you, Charlie,

Twisting Scripture doesnt help you a bit! The gospel will first be proclaimed by the two witnesses, that is BEFORE THE GREAT DAY OF GOD'S WRATH. You cannot change Matthew 24:14, and as you ought to know: THE GOSPEL IS THE GOOD TIDINGS and no blood-stained delivery of hatred. Your heart is filled with bitterness and gleeful expection of other people's destruction, which is not the love of Jesus Christ.

Why do you impute to the two witnesses the atrocities that worldy people will do to each other after God has left them? Remember:

FIRST, the witnesses come
SECOND, the revenge from God by the medium of evil people will strike the ungodly world. That execution cannot be attributed to the two witnesses, so you are totally wrong!

You cannot change the words of Jesus Christ himself.

with sorrow in heart
PJ
Charlie
QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Oct 7 2007, 03:01 PM) [snapback]123621[/snapback]

QUOTE(charlie @ Oct 7 2007, 11:13 PM) [snapback]123613[/snapback]

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Oct 7 2007, 01:58 PM) [snapback]123610[/snapback]


My answer:

You are talking about monsters, maybe seen to many monster films. The two witnesses are not sent to kill people but to help and save people. They are in sorrow for their fellow human beings, not bloodthirsty devils.

You end up in utter folly with your literal way of interpretation, and thus the letter kills you as foretold in Scripture.

Take care, you are not on firm ground.


With sorrow in heart
PJ


Is God a monster for destroying the wicked PJ? Is that How you judge the Lord?

22 For a fire is kindled by my anger, And shall burn to the lowest hell; It shall consume the earth with her increase, And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 'I will heap disasters on them; I will spend My arrows on them.
24 They shall be wasted with hunger, Devoured by pestilence and bitter destruction; I will also send against them the teeth of beasts, With the poison of serpents of the dust.
25 The sword shall destroy outside; There shall be terror within For the young man and virgin, The nursing child with the man of gray hairs.


10 The hands of the compassionate women Have cooked their own children; They became food for them In the destruction of the daughter of my people.


Poor you, Charlie,

Twisting Scripture doesnt help you a bit! The gospel will first be proclaimed by the two witnesses, that is BEFORE THE GREAT DAY OF GOD'S WRATH. You cannot change Matthew 24:14, and as you ought to know: THE GOSPEL IS THE GOOD TIDINGS and no blood-stained delivery of hatred. Your heart is filled with bitterness and gleeful expection of other people's destruction, which is not the love of Jesus Christ.

Why do you impute the atrocities that worldy people will do to the two witnesses? Remember:

FIRST, the witnesses come
SECOND, the revenge from God by the medium of evil people will strike the ungodly world. That execution cannot be attributed to the two witnesses, so you are totally wrong!

You cannot change the words of Jesus Christ himself.

with sorrow in heart
PJ


Two transient looking bums dressed in burlap sacks walk into the crystal cathedral in Anaheim California
And start proclaiming what the Lord has sent them to proclaim.

How will they be received PJ?

This is the day of wrath PJ. The day of intolerance. The day that Grace ends for the outsiders.
How can one chase a thousand and two put ten thousand to running away PJ, if they only have metaphorical power. Make believe symbolic fire coming out of the mouth of the two witnesses will not substantiate their position or their authority to do it.
They will indeed turn the waters to blood and cast physical mountains into the sea. They have been given the Spirit and Power of God without measure. Guaranteed.

So Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, "If I am a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men." And fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.
PehJeshua
QUOTE(charlie @ Oct 7 2007, 11:36 PM) [snapback]123618[/snapback]

Revelation 11

10 because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.


Dear Charlie,

False teachers and preachers, when refuted by a true witness of God, are tormented in their minds and conscience, like you are when debunked. Worldy people are tormented when they hear that they will be called to account for all evil doings of theirs since God so warns them.

God's people are NOT excutioners or hangmen but people of compassion and mercy. That is why the Lord says this in Ezek 14:20:

"Though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness."

And you claim to have the faith of Abraham but still you forget that he entreated God for mercy on behalf of the sinners of Gomorrah and Sodoma.

So, you are again debunked by the medium of Scripture.

With sorrow in heart
PJ
Charlie
QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Oct 7 2007, 03:20 PM) [snapback]123623[/snapback]

QUOTE(charlie @ Oct 7 2007, 11:36 PM) [snapback]123618[/snapback]

Revelation 11

10 because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.


Dear Charlie,

False teachers and preachers, when refuted by a true witness of God, are tormented in their minds and conscience, like you are when debunked. Worldy people are tormented when they hear that they will be called to account for all evil doings of theirs since God so warns them.

God's people are NOT excutioners or hangmen but people of compassion and mercy. That is why the Lord says this in Ezek 14:20:

"Though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness."

And you claim to have the faith of Abraham but still you forget that he entreated God for mercy on behalf of the sinners of Gomorrah and Sodoma.

So, you are again debunked by the medium of Scripture.

With sorrow in heart
PJ


Wow I've never been debunked before.
What does that mean anyway.
That's not in the word of God.

I only pray that I could ever come close to the Faith of Father Abraham. I don't remember claiming any such thing.
Well it won't be the first time that accusations have been slung around in anger. Anyway PJ it wasn't my intention for you to wander so close to the unpardonable. But I am confident that the Lord God is able to cast that out of you and not let the whole man perish because of it.
togarma
PJ:


Sir.28,9: A sinful man disquieteth friends, and maketh debate among them that be at peace.


Pj: I have tried, Charlie have tried - we are a lot of people who have showed you the truth - yet you wont listen, you just keeps on fighting.

I Beleive this is the end of the road for you, PJ - I hope you find peace at heart somewhere, Mr. Witness of God.

I choose to beleive The true word of GOD - so, bye bye PJ - I donīt want to listen to you anymore.

shy1
What would happen if PJ and charlie were each one of the Two Witnesses and met each other in a year or so and had to deal with water under the bridge? That just went through my mind. (Well, we know that water under the bridge will turn to blood . . . !)

Do you think the two know each other at this point or will not know each other until the public start of their ministry? Maybe they have known each other since childhood. And maybe they have never met.
George
QUOTE(shy1 @ Oct 8 2007, 10:33 AM) [snapback]123669[/snapback]

What would happen if PJ and charlie were each one of the Two Witnesses and met each other in a year or so and had to deal with water under the bridge? That just went through my mind. (Well, we know that water under the bridge will turn to blood . . . !)

Do you think the two know each other at this point or will not know each other until the public start of their ministry? Maybe they have known each other since childhood. And maybe they have never met.



They only know each other through the Spirit of God. They will not meet until the end of their ministry. They will be on different continents until then.

Spiritual food for thought:
Christ came in the flesh and was revealed to men.
Yet Christ said that The son of man will be revealed when, like in the days of Noah and the days of Lot They are swept away by unawareness.
Christ was not the first man called the "son of man".
Ezekiel was called "Son Of Man.
Son of man is a type that we will be seeing more of before the return of our Lord and savior.
Charlie
QUOTE(Godsloft.com @ Oct 9 2007, 06:23 PM) [snapback]123811[/snapback]

QUOTE(shy1 @ Oct 8 2007, 10:33 AM) [snapback]123669[/snapback]

What would happen if PJ and charlie were each one of the Two Witnesses and met each other in a year or so and had to deal with water under the bridge? That just went through my mind. (Well, we know that water under the bridge will turn to blood . . . !)

Do you think the two know each other at this point or will not know each other until the public start of their ministry? Maybe they have known each other since childhood. And maybe they have never met.



They only know each other through the Spirit of God. They will not meet until the end of their ministry. They will be on different continents until then.

Spiritual food for thought:
Christ came in the flesh and was revealed to men.
Yet Christ said that The son of man will be revealed when, like in the days of Noah and the days of Lot They are swept away by unawareness.
Christ was not the first man called the "son of man".
Ezekiel was called "Son Of Man.
Son of man is a type that we will be seeing more of before the return of our Lord and savior.


Daniel
5 Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank.

I agree that they may not meet until the Lord moves the entire remnant population of the earth into the middle east area.



Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

I also agree that it is possible that this scripture is speaking about the witnesses or even all of the end time saints.
shy1
QUOTE(charlie @ Oct 10 2007, 02:45 AM) [snapback]123824[/snapback]

I agree that they may not meet until the Lord moves the entire remnant population of the earth into the middle east area.
Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

I also agree that it is possible that this scripture is speaking about the witnesses or even all of the end time saints.

Wow--remnant population all moved into the middle east area. Wow. So does that eliminate people on other continents, or will people from all over the world go there before things get REALLY bad?
spooky
QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 17 2007, 01:31 PM) [snapback]122072[/snapback]


The answer to your question if I believe that Jesus Christ is equal with God our Father is 'yes', but remember that when Jesus was taken up his body was glorified in becoming part of the Godhead. In this way Psalm 8:4-5 became true.



hey, PJ.

Do you believe Jesus is the First and the Last, Who is Who was and Who is to come, The Almighty?
PehJeshua
QUOTE(shy1 @ Oct 11 2007, 03:38 AM) [snapback]123898[/snapback]

QUOTE(charlie @ Oct 10 2007, 02:45 AM) [snapback]123824[/snapback]

I agree that they may not meet until the Lord moves the entire remnant population of the earth into the middle east area.
Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

I also agree that it is possible that this scripture is speaking about the witnesses or even all of the end time saints.

Wow--remnant population all moved into the middle east area. Wow. So does that eliminate people on other continents, or will people from all over the world go there before things get REALLY bad?


Dear Shy1,
At long last I have got time to sit down and answer to you and others here. The remnant of the time of the 6th trumpet will not move to the middle east area. That is just the figment of deceived men who dont care about what Scripture tells as to times and there contents. According to Scripture God's people will live in the Gentile world after the great tribulation and be persecuted only at the end of the time of the Gentiles (which is also the end of the 1260 year time period of the sixth trumpet and the time of Rom 11:25, for at that time the greater part of the Christian church is compelled to leave the Gentile world and move to historical Israel (Rev 12:14). Notice that Rev 12:14 tells us the the woman (the church) moves to HER PLACE, which is a desert at that time. It means that historical Israel has not yet, at that time, accepted Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah, thus being a desert spiritually speaking, but will now accept their Savious.

The great tribulation happens at the beginning of the time period of the sixth trumpet, while the moving of the woman to her place Israel will happen at the end of tha same period. The Gentile population at large will not move to Israel, and even a small part of the church will remain in the Gentile world and be persecuted and finally exterminated. Then is come the time period of the Jews, which is the latter 1260 year period of the millennium, for which the 8th day of circumcision of Jewish boys was pointing to. The former 1260 year period is the first part of the millennium, for which the Sabbath was a symbol.

So, what Charlie tells you is just a fallacious figment of deceived men. Pay heed to what I say, for this is eternally true.

With sorrow in heart
PJ

QUOTE(charlie @ Oct 10 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]123824[/snapback]

QUOTE(Godsloft.com @ Oct 9 2007, 06:23 PM) [snapback]123811[/snapback]

QUOTE(shy1 @ Oct 8 2007, 10:33 AM) [snapback]123669[/snapback]

What would happen if PJ and charlie were each one of the Two Witnesses and met each other in a year or so and had to deal with water under the bridge? That just went through my mind. (Well, we know that water under the bridge will turn to blood . . . !)

Do you think the two know each other at this point or will not know each other until the public start of their ministry? Maybe they have known each other since childhood. And maybe they have never met.



They only know each other through the Spirit of God. They will not meet until the end of their ministry. They will be on different continents until then.

Spiritual food for thought:
Christ came in the flesh and was revealed to men.
Yet Christ said that The son of man will be revealed when, like in the days of Noah and the days of Lot They are swept away by unawareness.
Christ was not the first man called the "son of man".
Ezekiel was called "Son Of Man.
Son of man is a type that we will be seeing more of before the return of our Lord and savior.


Daniel
5 Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank.

I agree that they may not meet until the Lord moves the entire remnant population of the earth into the middle east area.



Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

I also agree that it is possible that this scripture is speaking about the witnesses or even all of the end time saints.


Dear Charlie,

What you write here is not according to Scripture, so you are writing out of your fleshly thoughts and figments.

With sorrow in heart
PJ
PehJeshua
QUOTE(Godsloft.com @ Oct 10 2007, 03:23 AM) [snapback]123811[/snapback]

QUOTE(shy1 @ Oct 8 2007, 10:33 AM) [snapback]123669[/snapback]

What would happen if PJ and charlie were each one of the Two Witnesses and met each other in a year or so and had to deal with water under the bridge? That just went through my mind. (Well, we know that water under the bridge will turn to blood . . . !)

Do you think the two know each other at this point or will not know each other until the public start of their ministry? Maybe they have known each other since childhood. And maybe they have never met.



They only know each other through the Spirit of God. They will not meet until the end of their ministry. They will be on different continents until then.

Spiritual food for thought:
Christ came in the flesh and was revealed to men.
Yet Christ said that The son of man will be revealed when, like in the days of Noah and the days of Lot They are swept away by unawareness.
Christ was not the first man called the "son of man".
Ezekiel was called "Son Of Man.
Son of man is a type that we will be seeing more of before the return of our Lord and savior.


Dear Godsloft.com,

You keep going on with groundless fantasies of your own without paying heed to what Scripture itself tells us. All Scripture tells us that the Son of Man will rise spiritually as the eastern sun through the man child of Rev 12:5 and the Branch that grows out of the roots of the Rod of Jesse in Isa 11:1. In person Jesus Christ will come only on THE VERY LAST DAY, as he says himself (John 6:39-40, 44, 54). But be aware of the biblical fact that first Jesus Christ will be revealed through his witnesses and their testimony, and then, only after that time of witnessing is gone by, will come the "day of Noah" (the great tribulation).

With sorrow in heart
PJ
PehJeshua
QUOTE(charlie @ Oct 8 2007, 12:38 AM) [snapback]123625[/snapback]


Wow I've never been debunked before.
What does that mean anyway.
That's not in the word of God.

I only pray that I could ever come close to the Faith of Father Abraham. I don't remember claiming any such thing.
Well it won't be the first time that accusations have been slung around in anger. Anyway PJ it wasn't my intention for you to wander so close to the unpardonable. But I am confident that the Lord God is able to cast that out of you and not let the whole man perish because of it.


Dear Charlie,

When you teach lies about the two witnesses of God that are not in accordance with Scripture, you are a false teacher. When Scripture shows you to be wrong you are debunked and refuted. You have brought forth many unbiblical things here, so if anyone has wandered close to the unpardonable it must be you yourself. I keep myself to what Scripture teaches, so if you disagree, then come forth and prove me to be in error. I can tell you right now that if you set about doing it you will be completely perplexed and shattered. So, stop faking and start paying heed to Scripture itself. If you cannot claim that you partake of the faith of Abaraham, then you are not a friend of God, but His enemy through your false belief.

With sorrow in heart
PJ


PehJeshua
QUOTE(charlie @ Oct 7 2007, 10:58 PM) [snapback]123608[/snapback]


Get ready for it PJ because it will come to pass.
Young men will vanish in smoke at the two witnesses rebuke.
The oceans seas and all water supplies will turn to blood like the blood of a dead man.
The blood will rot and stink and harden.
The Smell will be hard to bare, over the face of the whole earth.
Every living thing in the waters will die.
All electricity will cease world wide and nuclear power plants will melt down and kill many.
Everyones enemy will be their neighbor.
They will take your life to feed themselves.
When the Lord removes the supply and the support from planet earth.



Dear Charlie,

No, young men will not vanish in smoke at the two witnesses' rebuke, you are totally blind to the spiritual meaning of Scripture (1 Cor 2:14). The waters that turn into blood according to Rev 11:6 are the false doctrines of the devil, which false teachers present as living water from God. But, when these false doctrines are refuted, like yours, then they are seen to be false and poison to the souls of men. That is the way how they are turned into blood. When Isa 24 comes true, then will the great tribulation start and demand the blood of sinners, but only after the testimony of the two witnesses has first been proclaimed and heard by mankind. Then there will follow atrocities worldwide but not as perpetrated by the two witnesses of God.

The two witnesses of God are loving people, humble and true, wishing to save people and not to hurt any. If you dont listen to them you will hurt yourself, as God will punish you after His own world, for these witnesses were sent to you as a warning you should pay heed to.

With sorrow in heart
PJ
PehJeshua
QUOTE(togarma @ Sep 28 2007, 02:26 PM) [snapback]122908[/snapback]

QUOTE(PehJeshua @ Sep 28 2007, 05:43 AM) [snapback]122901[/snapback]

Dear Togarma,

My answer:
The name of my God is that one which is THE NEW NAME OF JESUS CHRIST (Rev 3:12) Do you know that name from your manmade Bible Code?

With sorrow in heart
PJ



Real mathematicians have proved the Bible codes are real - and published the results in the appropriate journals. The first paper was published in Statistical Science, Vol. 9, No. 3 by Witzum, Rips and Rosenburg and it is reprinted in Michael Drosnin's book The Bible Code.

The part of the Bible that has been proved to contain code is the Torah, the Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. There is a tradition, part of the oral tradition passed down since those days, that Moses received the book directly from God, in the form of an unbroken series of 304,805 Hebrew characters, fifty days after the Exodus began.

Turning the Torah back into an unbroken string of characters turns out to be the first step in the decoding process. The Hebrew scribes have been unstinting in their resolve to keep the Torah perfect to the letter.

Strict training for scribes takes place in traditional schools with strict and unchanging instructions about how the work is done. If a single mistake were found in a copy of the Torah, then the whole manuscript would be destroyed immediately.

This warning is passed down to each scribe in training: "Should you perchance omit or add one single letter from the Torah, you would thereby destroy all the universe." The Christian New Testament points to this special care at Matthew 5:18, Jesus said: "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, nor the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (Torah) until everything is accomplished."

It was probably traditions such as these that convinced a great mathematician like Newton that there was a code hidden within the text. Many Hebrew scholars suspected the same, the Vilna Gaon a prominent 18th century rabbi (Elijah Solomon) wrote; "All that was, is, and will be unto the end of time is included in the Torah, the first five books of the Bible." The Ramban, Rabbi Moses Ben Nachman, claimed that the whole of the history of Israel was contained within The Song of Moses.

However, even for a genius like Newton, the shear size of the task involved in trying to decode a message of 304,805 characters made it impossible for him. One of the few pre-computer successes was by Rabbi H.M.D. Weissmandl of Prague. He discovered that if you take the fiftieth letter of each chapter of the Torah, it is a T, the hundredth is an O, and the hundred and fiftieth is an R, and so on to spell TORAH. This may have been designed as an easy hint for code-breakers, or as part of a verifying 'watermark' to show that the text is accurate.

This is the nature of the code that has been broken; Michael Drosnin in his book about the code used the following example of a coded English phrase with a skip of four letters.

Rips explained that each code is a case of adding every fourth or twelfth or

Once the letters are highlighted the coded message is obvious:

Rips explained that each code is a case of adding every fourth or twelfth or

As in this case, the messages encoded in the Torah are short and scattered, and they are not confined to skips of four or fifty.

By the late 1980's it was possible to write software to run on a personal computer that could reliably, and quickly, resort the whole Torah using varying skip lengths. This process brings letters next to each o