I am sure that if I or someone knowledgable of The Holy Bible could get a debate in the public forum about this movement that we could convince America that it is not a movement at all but merely a product of sexual perversion and the issue could be put to rest.
Sodom and Gomorah was burned for this final reason. As Billy Graham stated, "If God does not judge America soon, then he did a great injustice to Sodom and Gomorah." It is coming soon if we christians and those who know the truth don't speak up and make it public.

"As Billy Graham stated, 'If God does not judge America soon, then he did a great injustice to Sodom and Gomorah.'"

Well, actually Catacolm, that is a misquote. The actual true quote is:

"... if God doesn't come soon and bring judgment upon the United States, He's going to have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah!"

It wasn't originally stated by Billy Graham at all, but instead, was a response by his wife, Ruth Graham.

This statement is erroneously and frequently attributed to Billy Graham, but had been originally said by Ruth Graham during a review of her husband's manuscript for his book, World Aflame, published in 1965. He had just finished a chapter vividly describing the sinful conditions in America, and gave it to Ruth to read. She was very much sobered by the writing and returned the document to the study where he was writing and laid it on his desk, saying, "Billy, if God doesn't come soon and bring judgment upon the United States, He's going to have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah!" The account was recalled briefly as an illustration in a message by Dr. James Kennedy (pastor, Coral Ridge Presbyterian, Fort Lauderdale, Florida), entitled "Prayer and the World Crisis", at the National Prayer Congress, Dallas, Texas in 1976, and was subsequently altered to it's current refined state:

"If God doesn't soon bring judgment upon America, He'll have to go back and apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah!"

Not to mince words, but it really is important for society not to keep altering such an integral quote into ever new incarnations, and also misattribute the quote to a person not responsible for its genius. When people are aware of its true intellectual source, Ruth Graham, it becomes quite apparent that shadowed behind Billy Graham was a very keen mind of a great woman who was uncelebrated and unrecognized. She properly deserves her day in the sun. It's only right and fair. Truly, this demonstrates that behind every great man is a great woman.

I think if prominent Christians managed to somehow, maybe have some sort of televised debate with the "pro-gay people" then i think that will clear up alot of the myths about the arguement.
We always hear gays whining pathetically on about how "JESUS didnt preach hate so we shouldn't." If someone like Billy Graham or someone else clarified right in people's faces that Christian opposition to homosexuals is not hate-based, but based on morality then i think that would deny gays of their favourite, if not their only card against Christians, which is "you preach hate and prejudice against us."

thats what i think at least.

I don't know that we can "Stop the Gay and Lesbian Rights Movement", just like we can't stop murder, perjury, stealing, etc. But we can reveal it for what it is. I recently answered the question on my blog "Why Does the Church Seem to be Split Over Homosexuality?" which I show below.

Why Does the Church Seem to be Split Over Homosexuality?

There is an enormous effort underway in the media to create an image of homosexuality as merely an alternate lifestyle. Homosexuality is portrayed as a perfectly normal and natural expression of human sexuality. People who view homosexuality as abnormal/sinful are portrayed as being homophobic or extremists of some sort.

God's Holy Bible explicitly condemns and prohibits homosexuality. Let's review God's Word as presented in His Holy Scriptures.

Do Not Defile Yourselves
"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable . . . Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways . . . ."
Leviticus 18:22,24 NIV

Homosexuality Is Detestable
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable."
Leviticus 20:13 NIV

God Destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah
"Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom -- both young and old -- surrounded the house. They called to Lot, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.' . . . Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah -- from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities -- and also the vegetation in the land."
Genesis 19:4-5,24-25 NIV

God Gave Them Over To Shameful Lusts
"Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator -- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
Romans 1:24-27 NIV

Marriage Is Between a Man And a Woman
"Now for the matter you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband."
1 Corinthians 7:1-2 NIV

All human beings are born with a sinful nature that results in sinful thoughts, words, and deeds. Homosexuality is but one of the many sins that humans can commit. From the moment we are born, all human beings stand under God's perfect judgment. All of us, by nature, are lost and condemned sinners.

Man Is Sinful
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
Romans 3:23 NIV

We all need God's mercy in Christ for our salvation.

If you are in a homosexual relationship today, you must first acknowledge homosexuality as sin. Do not go on arguing that it's not sin. It is.

============================================

As a matter of fact, any sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful.

Marriage Should Be Honored
"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral."
Hebrews 13:4 NIV

Jesus Extends the Definition of Adultery
Jesus said, "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Matthew 5:28 NIV

============================================

After you have acknowledged homosexuality as sin, repent of your sin (repent means to change direction). Ask God to forgive you.

Repent
"But unless you repent, you too will all perish."
Luke 13:3 NIV

End your homosexual relationship immediately (part of repentance). Do not wait one more minute. Turn away from the sin and those chains that bind you. God loves you and cares about you so much that He gave Jesus, His only Son, to die on the cross for your sins. All you have to do is repent, and ask Jesus to come into your heart.

Confess Jesus and Believe
"That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
Romans 10:9 NIV

The True Christian Church is not split over homosexuality. Satan is crafty is his attempts to destroy the Church from the outside via persecution but also from the inside via corruption, confusion, and distortion. Remember that 99% truth is still a lie. Because some members and even entire churches have deemed homosexuality an acceptable lifestyle and not sin does not make it so to God. If there is ever a dispute over God's Word and a preacher's word, you should ALWAYS let God's Word be your final authority. I would challenge you to look at any other profession. There are always a few "bad apples" that will cause problems for the vast majority of honest workers. The same is true for the Church.

The Gay and Lesbian Rights Movement is largely a political movement, which uses the court system to great effect. If Christians would vote the politicians who support the gay agenda out of office, there would be less judges the gays could be running to and less pro gay legislation floating about. Also to be voted out of office are the school administrators who support this gay agenda. The schools are the real battle field. Be not deceived on this point, gay education in the schools is little more then a way for gays to recruit kids into their lifestyle. The sad thing is that most people who call themselves Christians are more likely to vote for politicians based on their pocket book then on moral issues, if they bother to vote at all.

Kahuan, what you say is true. Some Christians (not all) do not vote in terms of principled values but in terms of how they can personally benefit from campaign promises. I was shocked when my very own cousin, a school teacher, voted for Bill Clinton for his second term in the White House, because Clinton promised not to cut the education budget.

And this is if Christians vote if even at all. Other Christians avoid the political scene completely under the guise of putting their faith strictly in God. But this defies Christ’s command, “Render onto to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and render onto to God what is God’s,” which subsequently materializes the proverbial ostrich with its head buried in the sand (in this case the Bible). In other words, Christ is commanding us to do BOTH our civil and spiritual duties as INDIVIDUALS, whether in the case of paying taxes, political affairs as well as personal responsibilities to God. But most Christians only focus on God and neglect their civil obedience in the world, hence they turn on its head the scripture, “You are in the world but not of it,” transforming it into a falsehood, “You are NOT in the world, and not of it.” To live in a nation where you are allowed to exercise the human right to vote is virtually a God-given gift; to entirely neglect this astounding privilege, or abuse it for personal benefits above principled values is simply a crime. I think the continued practice of this type of neglect will generate a stripping away of this gift, and the emergence of servitude to something more sinister. I’m talking about a proletariat state without any freedoms.

So due to Christian’s INDIVIDUAL neglect and abuse of these God-given gifts the snake was ALLOWED by Christians to enter the hen house. Hence, the homosexual political agenda has abundantly flourished.

This cannot now be circumvented via COLLECTIVE ACTION, because it was able to be usurped by INDIVIDUAL NEGLECT. If a Christocentric group mobilization is activated, then the Christian will “politicize” the Church causing legal losses, i.e. tax exempt status will be denied, and simultaneously, cause spiritual losses where the Church will morph into something other than what Christ intended, for it will precipitate the spiritual deformation of the Church to “enter” the secular matters of the world, thus corrupting the scripture to instead read, “Render onto Caesar what is God’s.”

The bottom line is that each INDIVIDUAL Christian MUST take up their Cross. They MUST exercise their vote for principled values. They MUST get on their knees and pray. This is the ONLY WAY in which the tide will turn. When the Christian does these things INDIVIDUALLY is how they will be most effective.

-7

The vote is a fairly inadequate tool. For example the same crowd you vote for because they oppose abortion may be the same crowd doing deals to allow homosexual marriage.
Some countries enforce voting so in those cases we should vote but otherwise I think it is a relatively meaningless mechanism. A big worry in Christianity today is the rise of militant christian lobby groups to fill the moral vacuum of the church. These individuals are often aflame with rebellion and do not afford due respect to the civil authority. They also push a fundamentalist bandwagon to the extent that the gospel gets drowned out in all the noise.

When we do write to the civil authority, remember to do so with respect as if you are representing the Holy Church of God and his Son Jesus Christ. Bring not railing accusation against them for they are the Lord's minister Rom 13:4, 2 Pet 2:10-12

Remember too that our primary role is to put on righteousness not make the world put on righteousness.
This brings me to the point of mentioning Kingdom Now theology also called Dominion Theology which is very prominent in the Christian Right.
This teaching is a vile heresy and manifests itself in excessive attention to developing political power. This includes planting members in fields of political influence. The fundamentalism of the Religious Right is generally speaking a sham. Its roots come from the 1880's where during the Modernist period the protestant church fell away into a frightful liberal theology which denied the miracles of the gospels and made extraordinary concessions to the secular norms of society in a pathetic attempt to woo the world into the church.

The fundamentalist movement was basically a backlash to this and features a very cut down gospel which emphasises the miracles of the Bible, abortion, evolution, sexual issues. What we might call "core truths" to the expense of "non-core truths"

We really need to get our churches back to the situation prior to the 1880's modernist movement when we had a decent set of beliefs and strong moral ethics which it rigidly enforced in its members. Back then it basically left the world to itself. This principle is demonstrated in
1 Cor 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth.

The correct way to influence society is for the church to be pure with pure and holy members. Unfortunately the church is bankrupt of morals with christians having equal rates of sexual immorality divorce abortion etc with the larger society. So clearly the Religious Right is paying lip service to family values but not practicing what they preach. The height of hypocrisy.

THE WRITING MAY BE ON THE WALL, BUT THE SCRIPTURES INSTRUCT US TO "OCCUPY"... ISOLATIONISM IS NOT AN OPTION.

Additionally, sexual perversion is not exclusive to the homosexual life style. Heterosexuals are equally embroiled in the full gamut of sexual perversion. They have their annual S & M "Exotic Erotic Expo and Ball" held all over the U.S. from N.Y and Vegas to San Francisco and Miami; there’s the decadence of Mardi Gras and Carnival; the Playboy Mansion, heterosexual strip joints and escort services; and not to mention the thriving heterosexual porn industry that even many heterosexual Christian men are secretly in bondage with, particularly Internet porn, living fake double lives while they simultaneously and hypocritically hide behind the Cross to judge and condemn homosexual perversion as an abomination. Usually, those who cry foul the loudest against a sin are most guilty of the very sin that they claim to be against, i.e. Pastor Ted Haggard, Senator Larry Craig, etc., etc., and etc.

How is this for an oxymoron. I was shocked when I read an article about Christians that do partner swopping and they do it as if nothing is wrong with it! I looked it up and its true.

. I did not understand a thing.

Should i try to understand this or should i forget this thing?.

WhiteKnight, yes it's hard to believe that there are Christian "swingers", but now a days it doesn't surprise me. If you are unaware a "swinger" is a terminology for a wife and husband swapping partners in the pursuit of sexual pleasure, usually in a double-couple or orgy-like setting; it's also called swinging, or to swing. It is popular amongst heterosexual married couples... and now apparently in the Christian Church.

Swapping Partners?. Meaning that a wife searches for the other man and man searches for the other woman? While there are "Husband" and "Wife". If i understood it right?. If i did understand right it is called "Adultery" or/and "Fornication". Which is completely unacceptable in Father eyes...

Yeap! That's right. You couldn't have said it better.

And you don´t "stop it" - you MAKE a stop to it.
You see - evil can´t be tought nice - it needs to be disiplined.

Unfortunatly - all we can do is pray against it - and shout against it - and suddently - there God is, and he MAKES A STOP TO IT!.

Sounds like a good plan to me... just as I said before, "The bottom line is that each INDIVIDUAL Christian MUST take up their Cross. They MUST exercise their vote for principled values. They MUST get on their knees and pray. This is the ONLY WAY in which the tide will turn. When the Christian does these things INDIVIDUALLY is how they will be most effective."

-7

stuff like that cannot be stopped, maybe detered for a while, but the bible says certain things must happen.

What I don't understand is how we can stop a movement that is essentially a disease. I don't think we have any right to attempt to subdue them just because their morals conflict with ours. Despite what most people would like you to believe, it is becoming widely accepted in the scientific community that homosexuality is less a matter of choice and more to do with biology beyond the control of the individual. Imagine if all the sexual impulses you had when you saw a member of the opposite sex where aroused when you saw a member of the same sex? I guess what I'm saying is that we should think of the way the people on the other side of the fence feel because that's what good christians do and remember whats right for you and me isn't right for all.

Exactly...I think we aught to pay attention to our sins and get ready for His coming...We don't see Lot voting about morality nor did we see that in Judges either...what we see is God allowing depravity, which He says He causes by turning over people to the reprobate mind to do that which is inconvenient Romans 10

These people have no choice...He is making them all the more guilty b4 Him and letting them enjoy whatever they will until the judgement...This is His grace...He called them, they said no, so, He let's them carry on as if everything is ok ...that is His grace..to only judge them once and let me tell you, if an eternity in a Lake of Fire is not severe enough...as well as the judgements that will come on the earth in the Great Tribulation.....what indeed is? He is being graceful to them to let them be as decieved as they are. Why add on to what is coming. All of this was foretold..it shouldn't be a surprise..it's going to get worse, not better for time is short and we will see the Lord soon.

I say we ignore it. The more attention we draw to it the more publicity it gets.

I have a story. About 15 years ago an adult book and movie store opened up in Kansas City and immediately Christians starting protesting it. This was before I was saved so I went to the store and shopped there some. Had they not protested it, I probably would have drove by 1000 times and not noticed it since it didn't look like a store I would be interested in. It looked like a grimy gas station. But since it got free publicity and advertisement it thrived. The owner of the store said the protesters were the best thing that happened to his business.

They want attention, they love it when we're "shocked and appalled". They want us to scream and yell because it gives their side legitimacy. It will never go away completely but we can ignore it. Simply pray for them and let them know when they want Christ we'll be more than willing to help them.

But what God has said is wrong is wrong for all. What the scientific community believes (has faith in as well) doesn't amount to a hill of beans. They mostly believe in evolution too. Someone that is willfully ignorant and blissfully deceived should have absolutely no influence in the life of a believer.

Some scientific minds acknowledge the truth but they are a tiny minority. The rest think that their thoughts and ways are higher than God's thoughts and ways. They have darkened minds though they consider themselves to be 'enlightened'.

Hi DT . I had to smile when I read your response brother, because of your other thread about your congregation and your pastors obsession. Oh dear I do not blame you for saying "ignore it".
your brother C

Funny how everyone thinks that it is detestable and disgusting but really....think about what the word says. Read all of the passages that contain anything regarding homosexuality again and please notice....it is detestable TO GOD. If it is to be taken into your hands to remove it from the planet then you would first have to judge and find guilty those groups.
Now...the word teaches us also that we are not to judge for God is judge alone and woe to those who judge such things. Those who judge are as equally guilty of sin.

Its for God to Judge and condemn alone. Our job is to love and love alone. This whole topic is a complete waste of time in light of truth.
God is willing and perfectly capable of washing and cleansing all who sin dont underestimate the God of all creation. He can and He will restore all to Him.

God Bless, D

All sexual impurity is sin, is it not?

All man is guilty. Homosexuals are wrong to be gay, heterosexuals are wrong when they fornicate, ect...

Yes the nation will one day be judged but because of sin in general, not just this. The entire world will be judged because of sin.

It is right to be alarmed at increasing rates of immorality - and is a justified position to take.

It just isn't quite right to blame the judging/coming destruction of the nation on one group of sinners over another.

WE ALL CONTRIBUTE TO GOD'S UNHAPPINESS WITH MANKIND VIA OUR COMMISSION OF SINS.

Yes, being gay is sinful - but I'm not gay, and I've been known to sin off and on my whole life - even when trying not to... does that make me any better than a gay person? I certainly don't see how that could possibly add up...

I could not agree more Truth. It is not our place to do this.

Jesus cast unclean spirits out of His troubled countrymen. Llukewarm churchianity has been unable to affect this plague, nor respond to Christ's commands to be filled with God's Spirit and love as He taught. As the called folks follow after their idols and fall away from the truth, thereby missing their place at the marriage supper, I imagine God using true disciples in these and near future times to release the captives and see the so called dregs of humanity answer the call to be clothed with righteousness. Who has been forgiven much loves much. Why did and does the enemy pick on these sensitive souls so much in the first place. Could it be ole slewfoot is afraid of what kind of saint they could be? Pray for laborers in the harvest to destroy the works of the enemy in Jesus mighty name.

Okay,

To whoever started this topic..I beg you to please let your pride go and your humility towards other people GO!

"LET MY PEOPLE GO!"

I am sick of these pastors in the streets throwning stones at the homosexual people, when they themselves will be the ultimate victim of their own crime!

NONE OF US IS PERFECT..........NO NOT ONE! And when people say that they can be like Jesus, you are acting like a Savior to the rest of humanity!

GROW UP PEOPLE! We cannot disrespect one another because we have sinned, you have to know where you sin and where your heart is before the ALMIGHTY GOD.

Do NOT condemn one another!

That is NOT scriptural! Only God knows what is in our hearts and the most important man in our lifetime.

He was an example, for us to follow!

All of those that would be the judge of other's sin, remember the words of James 2:10. Then ask yourselves, have I committed even one of the tiniest sins? Have I over-eaten or exceeded the speed limit today? Have I shown love to the least?

With the long list of "sins" that many in the Church have deliniated, sometimes it sounds a whole lot more like the Pharisees than Jesus. Aren't we supposed to be known for the love we show others rather than the hatred we spew at those we disagree with? Didn't Jesus love the sinner to the point of redemption? Or did he demand that everyone change their life before He died for them?

The Gay and Lesbian Rights movement does not seek to supplant a Christian Nation. The US is a secular nation (by definition in the Constitution) that was founded by Christians. Those Christians knew that the best was was to believe that all people are created equal by God, but are able to do whatever they want freely (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness) without interferance from the government. Did they have the idea right - Yes. Did they screw it up some along the way - Yes. But because the government for many years made blacks sit at the back of the bus and drink from separate water fountains does not mean that the Church has the right to legislate against another minority group and to deny them equal status as human beings. If the secular government is going to recognize one person's right to do something than it must recognize that everyone has that right. Anything less is facism.

Instead of trying to legislate against the GLBT movement, we should all be loving the lost into the kingdom. That includes the GLBT individual. Since almost all contact with Christians results in condemnation and not love, the majority of GLBT have come to believe that that is what Christians are. If every Christian would befriend just one GLBT person, and then live their own life as a witness to that person, including showing them unconditional love, the movement would become a moot point, because they would all get saved. But we, the Church, can not even do that for each other - hence, denominationalism.

There are only 2 laws we are to follow - Love our God and Love our Neighbor. If we do both, our neighbor will come to do the first also.

Hi w. good post and welcome to the forum!

<><

John

Hello and welcome,


What you are saying has merit and we are to love them however, so many of the homosexual community are IN YOUR FACE with what they do and how they act. It is an abomination and yet television and movies treat it as if it is the acceptable way to be. Education seems to be promoting it too.


Please don't lose sight of what they are doing and how they are trying to indoctrinate us into acceptance of what our Father detests. So when you write, "The Gay and Lesbian Rights movement does not seek to supplant a Christian Nation" I disagree. A Christian nation, one that follows God, does not condone what He finds to be abominable.


Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loeth and maketh a lie."


A dog, as used in that scripture is a homosexual. "The word "dog" appears in Phoenician remains, as applied to a class of servants attached to a temple of Ashtoreth in Cyprus." - Bullinger



Love them but detest what they do and teach them it is wrong......just as He loves us but detests our sins. They, as we, must repent, change and ask for forgiveness...the homosexual community does not do that.

"Please don't lose sight of what they are doing and how they are trying to indoctrinate us into acceptance of what our Father detests. So when you write, "The Gay and Lesbian Rights movement does not seek to supplant a Christian Nation" I disagree. A Christian nation, one that follows God, does not condone what He finds to be abominable."

You've missed my point on this - The US is not a Christian Nation. It is a secular nation with Christians living in it. And Jews, and Budhists, and Hindus, Atheists, and Moslems, etc. So the GLBT movement is not supplanting a Christian Nation. And do not Christians have the same right to preach our Gospel? If you take away the rights of one group because you do not like their views, your rights will eventually also be taken away. That is what the Establishment Clause is all about - not to prevent religion but to prevent one from dominating and using the Government to control all. What is abominable to one group, in this case Christians, is not abominable to all groups and in a secular nation, all groups are allowed their choice.


"Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loeth and maketh a lie."

A dog, as used in that scripture is a homosexual. "The word "dog" appears in Phoenician remains, as applied to a class of servants attached to a temple of Ashtoreth in Cyprus." - Bullinger"


A dog in this passage does not refer to a homosexual in the orignal (and Ancient) Greek. It refers to anyone with an impure mind, not simply sexual impurity. And the passage takes in all unrepentant sinners that are left outside the kingdom. Seems to me that their a lot more liars just in the Church than there are GLBTs in the whole world. Why is it that so many Christians want to concentrate only on the sin of people outside the Church's influence than those siting in the pew next to them every Sunday? I say get people saved first and then we can work on them (That was Jesus' way)



"Love them but detest what they do and teach them it is wrong......just as He loves us but detests our sins. They, as we, must repent, change and ask for forgiveness...the homosexual community does not do that.
[/quote]"


The result of Love the person, hate the sin mentality is that it is not the way that Jesus did things. He loved the person unconditionally, including you and me, and did not demand that we change until after we were in his fold. And once we are in His fold, He leads gently, not with a club, which is how way too many Christians want to "lead" sinners to Christ.
I would claim that most of those claiming to belong to the Church do not repent of their daily sins either. But that is not mine to judge unless it is a lack of love, which again are our only two commandments. Our job as Christians is not to "teach them it is wrong", not to beat the sinner with the club, but to first bring them to Christ. Once they are His, then we, along with the Holy Spirit, can teach them the ways of our God. Not before.

The whole gay rights / gay marriage agenda points to the degeneration of a moral society. How can true believers accept an "alternative lifestyle" as normal which the Bible calls sin? How could we stand by quietly and allow our schools to promote and teach our children how to be gay? This is about a planned demoralization of society.

Judge orders 'gay' agenda taught to Christian children
-Rules kids need teachings to be 'engaged and productive citizens'

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54420

Homosexual Agenda - Targeting Children
-How the homosexual movement uses public schools as instruments of change

http://www.afa.net/homosexual_agenda/childrenb.asp

PUBLIC SCHOOLS BEGINNING TO TEACH HOMOSEXUALITY: IT IS HIGH TIME FOR CHRISTIAN PARENTS TO PULL THEIR PRECIOUS CHILDREN OUT!

http://www.cuttingedge.org/NEWS/n1371.cfm

It wasn't too long ago that sodomy laws were upheld:

"Most anti-sodomy laws in Western countries originated from a Judeo-Christian world-view established from the bible. The Biblical book Leviticus defines sex between men as a crime that warrants capital punishment.[6]The New Testament also condemns Sodomy. The biblical book of Romans calls Sodomy "unnatural", "degrading passions", "indecent acts"(Romans 1:24-27)"Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen 26 for this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the women and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error." 1 Cor 6:9 says, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Timothy (1:9-10) calls Sodomy an act that ungodly and sinners do. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law

We hate the sin, yes! But having recourse to the law as a solution is going backwards, don't you think. We are now under grace, so let's show the world the way to be. We can't rely on Egypt for our strength. This strategy has back-fired to the point where we now have gay clergy...of course the clergy have always been infiltrated through the lust of recognition in this world. Face it, the church institution is the devil's plaything. Let's just not add sin to sin as we are in the habit of doing!

<><

John

Actually M. Graham said that although America was brought to it's knees at the 9/11 memorial service...it will yet rise again! I was in shock at such a partisan exclamation from a supposed man of God. Scary rhetoric from a person who should be teaching people to heed an obvious warning from God. Doesn't sound like a prophet does he? Too sad!

John

We are the salt of the earth... remember?. We oppose sin where it is found, not condone it... or wink at it.

Thirty years ago this gay movement would have been laughed at. A society whose laws are founded on the Bible is a moral society. The homosexual agenda has far advanced past the point of individual freedom. Does "the coming out movement" sound familiar? This is flaunting sin and is in extreme disobedience to the Word of God.

It's very evident you haven't adequately "read" my post. Our children are being targeted, and being conditioned to accept "gayness" as being okay... and our tax money is paying for it. Is the homosexual agenda supplanting a moral nation? I believe that to be an understatement. It has already happened, and there is no reversing it now.

Judgment season is near upon us!

This is why we must come out of the system. You can't stop the world from going it's own way. You can provide a light to another Way, however. Trying to stop a particular sin through legislation has always back-fired....unless you want to put them to death. This will definitely curb the enthousiasm of most and delay a further outbreak. Other than open persecution, a la Inquisition (which is not really an option is it?), there is no going back. Only God's judgment will put an end to it.

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John

There it is - the Pharisaicalism that I mentioned originally - the "Bring the Judgement" mentality that is not Christ-like in any way. Even the threat of Judgement will not bring the masses to Christ. Only our love, with the help of the Holy Spirit can do it.

Old Testament condemnation, hell fire and brimstone preaching, and name calling in the name of "spreading the Gospel" may have temporary results, but does not "stick" for the long haul. Only the Love of Christ can do that.

No one has said to "wink at sin" but the sin is not the problem - the lost soul is. Lost people sin, that is their nature. Combating sin is a losing cause - winning souls to Christ is a winning cause. Once won to Christ, the sin problem is solved. Even if we could win the sin battle, we would still lose the soul battle.

Nothing could be more important to understand. Or more important to Jesus.

This is foolishness.

Legislation?... of course not. Our courts have been successfully infiltrated by the enemy.

True Christians should have been "out of the system" a long time ago. But... we stand up to evil and unashamedly speak the truth of God's Word regarding this abomination. Are you speaking God's Word regarding homosexuality or are you being willingly complacent so as not to "offend". Speaking the Word is offensive to those in sin. You just might have a gay person in your audience who, through the grace of God, might have his or her eyes opened to the truth. We are the salt and light in the world.

"For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." -Hebrews 4:12

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them]. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil." -Ephesians5:11-16

REPROVE - Strong's G1651

1) to convict, refute, confute
generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted
by conviction to bring to the light, to expose
2) to find fault with, correct
by word
1) to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove
2) to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation
by deed
1) to chasten, to punish


READ THIS:

YOUR CHILD BELONGS TO US!

http://www.apfn.net/home_school16.htm

If we followed your logic, which is very gentle but accommodating, then would we also make excuses for murderers, rapists, idolaters? There is right and there is wrong. Because someone wishes to murder should it be accepted? What if that murderer was teaching your child....it's okay to murder, it's a natural thing...just look at the animals in nature.


Well teaching your child that being homosexual is okay is also murder. His/her soul is being murdered by the one saying this is no big deal. They are after our children and you need to open your eyes to this truth.


Do you believe it was Christ-like to accept one as he is? You are mistaken. In the words of our Saviour:


Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Mark 1:15 And saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.


One does not "believe" the gospel if they condone homosexuality or even just look the other way. Where you say, "winning souls to Christ is a winning cause. Once won to Christ, the sin problem is solved," is a lovely thought and I agree. If one is won to Christ then they will change. The problem is how many others is that one going to lead down the wrong path before he finds himself?

Our nation was founded on Godly principles so don't push that liberal view this way....I won't fall for it. We are a vast majority of Christians. We do not "take away their rights" but they try to take what isn't theirs. By that I mean the right to marriage. Marriage is a union sanctified by God. God does not sanctify homosexuality. It is an affront. Why do they feel it necessary to be married....it is one of those IN YOUR FACE GOD moves they do more and more.




Dog meant exactly what I wrote.






You are in error when you say...."our job as Christians is not to teach them it is wrong." Jesus tells us:

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, REBUKE HIM; and IF HE REPENT, forgive him,

the sin of Sodom was not primarily sodomy............their sin was :

Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy

they were proud, fat, idle, selfish,,,,,,,,,,,,therefore,........as a judgement/sign/example/warning-to-us,..............God turned them into homosexuals


in the ENDTIMES, you'll see a ****LOT******* of homo-lust

Obama approves of sodomy..........when asked about Romans 1, he said "i don't put much confidence in such an obscure passage,,,,,,,,,,i believe that the SERMON ON THE MOUNT speaks favorably about acceptance and love ( homo-lust)"


so, there you have it!...........obama believes that .......much of the NT is an obscure passage.
That's why the world loves obama..........he is a smooth, eloquent, lying, christ-hater.

the destruction of sodom is a little picture of the ENDTIMES



when a city is sinful, atheist, and unthankful,,,,,,,,,God turns them over to homo-lust
read Romans 1

today, in USA, some children are born with homo-lust because America has turned away from Jesus/bible

these children are not forced into sin,,,,,,,,,,,they can live in celibacy,,,,,,,or they can ask God to turn them to hetero-lust

for example,,,,,,,,,a man may be tempted to do fornication, adultry, bank-robbing, murder, pedophilia, etc,,,,,,,,,but, they can be celibate, and abstain from sin







Eze 16:46 And thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters.
Eze 16:47 Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways.
Eze 16:48 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.
Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
Eze 16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
Eze 16:51 Neither hath Samaria committed half of thy sins; but thou hast multiplied thine abominations more than they, and hast justified thy sisters in all thine abominations which thou hast done.
Eze 16:52 Thou also, which hast judged thy sisters, bear thine own shame for thy sins that thou hast committed more abominable than they: they are more righteous than thou: yea, be thou confounded also, and bear thy shame, in that thou hast justified thy sisters.
Eze 16:53 When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them:
Eze 16:54 That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them.
Eze 16:55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.
Eze 16:56 For thy sister Sodom was not mentioned by thy mouth in the day of thy pride,
Eze 16:57 Before thy wickedness was discovered, as at the time of thy reproach of the daughters of Syria, and all that are round about her, the daughters of the Philistines, which despise thee round about.
Eze 16:58 Thou hast borne thy lewdness and thine abominations, saith the LORD.
Eze 16:59 For thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even deal with thee as thou hast done, which hast despised the oath in breaking the covenant.
Eze 16:60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.

Are we to judge those on the outside? Paul discourages that does he not? If the problem where inside the church, then we should fix it. Sin is rampant...we need to get at the root and not try pruning the tree.


John

new law could be comming your way soon seems we are now being told to deal with our own mess and not judge those who are non believers


Hate crimes legislation



A proposed law may someday force you to bite your tongue when it comes to the topic of homosexuality or risk comitting a crime Democractic Senator Carl levin is attempting to sneak a law giving special rights to homosexuals into major defence spending bill some are calling the move a dirty tactic


this realy is as synical as it gets

matt barber of concerned women for america expresses whats on the mind of many pro family advocates levin is threatening important legislation so he can force throu a bill giving special rights to a homosexual

hate crimes legislations would add crimes committed against someone because of their sexual orientation to a list of offences that have stiffer penalties


so if this bill is passed i feel sorry this is what this senator is pushing for and to hear that we are to put this to the side and focus to what is going on with in the body how are you to do this does this give house church leaders and those who no longer belong to a main stream church to judge us and judge what has been discussed in this very thread we have sevral hear who do not even go to church but feel they can be critical when some one responds to a topic


so is this what we are to do ignore what we see unfolding what will god say what wil he be thinking


well if you are going to place this hear i hope you are ready for whats to come if this new law is passed in your country

i can see know why australian christians no longer look to america a long time ago we use to look to what god was doing in your country


god bless from damo

New Hate Law Legislation are being discussed which will make it a criminal offense to even offend a homosexual. Homosexuality is a sin, and this truth can not be watered down or tolerated. A sin is a sin is a sin. And sometimes the liberals have a tendency of glorifying sin while calling this glorification; "tolerance." Should Christians tolerate sin in order to just get along? BTW- If new hate laws are passed ministers will be unable to preach Gods Word when it concerns homosexuality, after-all Gods WORD might offend someone living in this sin. It goes without saying that a minister who is practicing the sin of homosexuality has no business being behind the pulpit. True, there is forgiveness at the cross but there is also victory. All of us can win Victory over any sin that has a hold of us, if we but just grab on to the Word of God. Believe Gods promises to us.

An interesting quote that speaks volumes to me:

"When tolerance in valued over truth, the cause of truth always suffers. Church history shows this to be so. Only when the people of God have mounted a hardy defense of truth and sound doctrine has the church flourished and grown strong."
John MacArthur, Reckless Faith

The below article is a good read...about how sinful lifestyles are waging war against Christians.

Gods Blessings,

Al

"An Open Letter to the Christian Community"

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/HarryRJ...rue&voted=5

The new hate crime bill or hate crime legislation if passed will do more than just imprison and fine anyone that believes that homosexuality is a sin. And it may do more than just allowed the offended to sue in court. Remember, the FLDS church in Texas?

No matter how you or I feel about what these people believe, how creepy they seem, how they dress, how the children had no crayons/toys or that creepy picture of their prophet on the bedroom wall...the state used military style force to take ALL of their children into custody based on the belief that the children will be indoctrinated during their childhood to commit or allow future crimes. (The crime of spiritual/plural marriage. And the crime of underage spiritual marriage.) Both are against the law.

Do you think that this hate crime bill will stop at just the handful of preachers or believers that speak what the bible says out loud even amongst themselves much less to those outside the congregation or your home for that matter? If a state will go out and take all their children to protect those children and infants and yet born from future crimes they may commit because of indoctrination do you really believe your beliefs and children are safe?

Although, on the surface it seemed the right thing to do to protect these precious children. We were lamblasted by the media about this cult. Yet, if we support taking all the children even from families that had no part in the underage spiritual marriage then what court will protect our right to parent and raise our own children in our own beliefs or what we read from our bibles or our right to be part of a congregation whether assembled in a building or in a home? If this bill passes it will be against the law and made a crime. If you teach, preach, read from the bible, or even speak about it to your children you will be breaking the law. Worse yet, just being a Christian, many in the world say that Christianity is in itself a hateful religion. Eventually, someone may come along and test the water and take the children away from entire congregations to protect them from this teaching.

I pose this as a question because if the government at any level can protect children from future crimes they may commit or allow to be commited based solely on religious beliefs than I say us Christians will definately feel the effects of this hate crime bill in the future. IMHO The state of Texas was testing the water to see if the US public was ready for this. I don't even want to go into great detail what happened at Waco when they said they were trying to save the children and they all burned to death. That happened in Texas, too.
No offense intended to Texans or others.

IMHO We are living in perilous times. I pray we lift each other up in prayer, reach the lost with the Gospel of Truth, reach out to those that are hungry with food, athirst with drink, visit the sick and visit those in prison.

The sodomites are not a problem. In fact they are doing just what Yah said they would do. GO TO HELL!
Everytime I see a "Lad in Lavender" I know that his word is true.
I can share a few short ideas however on how you could stop supporting them.

1. Quit going to their Hollywood productions, renting their movies, and watching their shows and doling out the money to support their wicked lifestyle. At least you will have more cash for your own. You can start by throwing out the T.V. (Tel-a-vision) and your "programming" to tithe your time and attention might be diverted back to God!

2. Put a belt on your sagging britches! Nobody wants to see your crack and pubic line except the faggots!

3. Teach your kid what a rear end is really for and you wont have to worry about him pulling down his pants for anyone else!

4. Wives and daughters should stop wearing those things called "Bikinis" around the beach and wherever. They are nothing but a Bra and panties. This should kill two birds with one stone. You wont be the cause of a man stumbling and
the lesbians will consider that amount of clothing too much of a challenge for their weak defiled self to bother with.

Well, I guess I went over by one idea!
Hope this helps.

GO ahead and blast Texas brother! They deserve it. I lived there for 10 years and it full of hell just like everywhere else.

Prophesy can't be stopped

Luke17v26: And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27: They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28: Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29: But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30: Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

God is Judge and Jury

We are not asked to judge anyone. We are instructed to warn them to change.


Ezekiel 3:17 "Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at My mouth, and GIVE THEM WARNING FROM ME.

18. When I say unto the wicked, 'Thou shalt surely die;' and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, TO SAVE HIS LIFE; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND.


As we are not God we don't know if the one we warn is or is not of the house of Israel....to say one was and another was not would be judging. We MUST make a stand on this issue, as well as others.

The Lord said

Matthew13v24: Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26: But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27: So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28: He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29: But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30: Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

"We MUST make a stand on this issue, as well as others."

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

Teach them preteristic or post-ribulational theology and send them into the tribulation period of the Lord's coming judgment for purification.


The Lord alone will judge and separate.

We don't judge the person... we judge the sin, but always with the intentions of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences... the Lord Jesus Christ. (John 14:6). We must stand for the truth of God's Word.

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." -2Tomothy 4:2

God's Word does not advocate loving everything; never hating anything.

"A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." -Ecclesiastes 3:8

When true believers speak against any form of sin, some people seem to think this is a violation of the Bible teaching about love. On the contrary, we should hate and oppose sin.

God loves all people, but He still hates sinful conduct so much that He will punish those who sin and do not repent.

"Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked." -Psalm 97:10

"The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate." Proverbs 8:13

What God hates, we are to hate because we love Him and fear Him... and when we see sin we are to rebuke it.

"He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both [are] abomination to the Lord." -Proverbs 17:15

"...speaking the truth in love" -Ephesians 4:15
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them]." -Ephesians 5:11

We should speak the truth in love, this includes rebuking sin. If we keep quiet about sin, so as not to offend, or give others the false impression that we a "judging" others; or look the other way... that would be a failure to speak the truth. Instead of participating in error, we must reprove it. We are salt and light in the world.

Jesus said: "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." Revelation 3:19-
...and we are to follow Jesus' example. If we have the love of Jesus, we will not keep quiet about sin, but we bill rebuke it in love as He did.

"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." -James 5:19-20

"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" -Galatians 4:16

"The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." -John 7:7

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." John 15:19

If we don't stand for truth, the world has no problem with us. If, like Jesus, we testify against evil, then people object. But Jesus did it. That's why they killed Him. If we are truly like Him, we will not keep quiet but will oppose sin.

When sin is rebuked because we love truth and love the souls of those who sin, we have proper love.