Myth: We are sinners saved by grace.
Bible truth: We use to be sinners, now we are saints, saved by grace.

We do not find any reference to the Myth that we are sinners saved by grace in the Bible. The only thing we do find is that God calls the saved individual a saint.

Look here: Jesus is talking to the disciples, he talks about the sinners, but He is excluding the disciples from the equation.Look carefully, Jesus is teaching them how to live, He is telling them (the saints) that they must not be the same as the sinners. He is making a dividing line here , between saints and sinners.

First you must know why:He told them that they were already CLEAN because of the Word:Joh 15:3 Already ye are clean because of the word which I have spoken unto you.


Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luk 6:32 And if ye love them that love you, what thank have ye (Saints)? for even sinners love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them that do good to you, what thank have ye (Saints)? for even sinners do the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye (Saints) ? even sinners lend to sinners, to receive again as much.
(Now here He is not speaking to the sinners or about them, He is now speaking to the Saints: )

Luk 6:35 But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend, never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be sons of the Most High[/b](Notice that God has no sinners for sons): for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye merciful, even as your Father (again, God has no sinners for children) is merciful.
Luk 6:37 And judge not, and ye shall not be judged: and condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: release, and ye shall be released:
Luk 6:38 give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running
over, shall they give into your bosom. For with what measure ye mete it shall be measured to you again.

................................
OK this always bring a rush of answers why this cannot be.
Cornelius, we still sin, we are still sinners.

The answer (like always) is in FAITH.. God does not expect YOU to overcome your sin, but He expects you to believe that He has already cleansed you, washed you, and GIVEN you the victory in Christ.

Can you see it?
No
May we believe something , before we can see it?
Yes
Why?
Because God says it is so.

Read Romans, Paul had a problem with this as well, and then the Lord showed him, that if he is not out there in WILLING sin, that God is on his side. His sin (that he sometimes still struggle with, and his WILL is against that sin) that God does not hold that against him. Paul says: Its not me that is sinning, I am against that sin. God says: I agree, now its you and I against that sin. God says: Just STAND on My Word and you will be delivered. I WILL deliver you if you can believe that I HAVE delivered you at the cross.

God uses faith as well. He calls things that "are not" as "if they were" You can do that to and you will see the power of God move into your life.

Rom 4:17 ...................... and calleth the [b]things that are not, as though they were.

So Saints, start believing your inheritance. Speak the same as Jesus before the world and you will see the power of God.

You are all correct: YOU cannot walk without sin: But you are all wrong if you believe that it is not in the power of God to enable you through faith.

In short: If you want victory, you first have to believe that you already HAVE IT. Because Christ IN YOU has the victory

I will add more scripture to this later.

C

In order to believe the Myth that we are "sinners saved by grace" we must then be able to say: We are sinner saints and that is just not anywhere in the Bible. Its an oxymoron, because they really are opposites of the spiritual spectrum. Sinner (needs salvation) . Saint (sanctified , holy)

Act 9:13 But Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many of this man, how much evil he did to thy saints at Jerusalem:

Act 9:32 And it came to pass, as Peter went throughout all parts, he came down also to the saints that dwelt at Lydda.

Act 26:10 And this I also did in Jerusalem: and I both shut up many of the saints in prisons, having received authority from the chief priests, and when they were put to death I gave my vote against them.

Rom 1:7 to all that are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (notice "to be" is added and is not in the original)

Rom 8:27 and he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Rom 15:25 but now, I say, I go unto Jerusalem, ministering unto the saints.

Rom 15:26 For it hath been the good pleasure of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor among the saints that are at Jerusalem.

Rom 15:31 that I may be delivered from them that are disobedient in Judaea, and that my ministration which I have for Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints;

Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church that is at Cenchreae:
Rom 16:2 that ye receive her in the Lord, worthily of the saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever matter she may have need of you: for she herself also hath been a helper of many, and of mine own self.

Rom 16:15 Salute Philologus and Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints that are with them.
1Co 1:2 unto the church of God which is at Corinth, even them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, ("even" and "to be" are added and it is not in the original)



Here is a great one:

1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against his neighbor, go to law before the unrighteous,(sinners ) and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2 Or know ye not that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world is judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Just a thought: When do you think the saints will judge the world? (The world being everybody that's not saved) Before or after the rapture? Just asking................


back to the saints:

2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints that are in the whole of Achaia:

So we are saints.
Many believe they are not saints.
I do not want to go into the false doctrines about who's a saint and who is not. Those are doctrines designed to keep the truth from you. Satan hopes that you will never discover the truth.
love C

I sure hope we're not sinners anymore. Otherwise, God doesn't hear our prayers.

Joh 9:31 We know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and do his will, him he heareth.

Good scripture !

Such a wonderful reminder for my itching ears to hear: Victory in Jesus! When life situations throw us a curve ball, it is a relief for me to know that our God does not change. His love and promises are the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me, and the life I now live... I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me."
Gal 2:20

"Do not fear! Stand by and see the salvation of the Lord which He will accomplish for you today... The Lord will fight for you while you keep silent."
Ex. 14: 13-14

"The Lord your Lord, who goes before you, will Himself fight on your behalf..."
Deut. 1:30

"Be strong and courageous, do not be afraid or tremble at them, for the Lord our God is the One who goes with you. He will not fail you or forsake you."
Deut. 31:6

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth (shall have been) bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth (shall have been) loosed in heaven."
Matt. 16:19

"Nay, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through Him who love us."
Rom 8:37

Gods Blessings,

Al

Very nice Al.

I agree

As Paul said, "IF I hate that which I do, it's NO LONGER me doing it nut sin that dwells in me".

Those who regard iniquity in their hearts must repent.....true saints agree with God in His hatred towards sin....though their flesh still yearns for sinful things...the born again spiritual man in Christ will always war against the flesh. This is part of fighting the good fight.....dominating and putting under the carnal nature by faith in Christ's finished works. We reckon it dead by faith.....this is the key to no longer walking as a sinner.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.

Rom 8:13 for if ye live after the flesh, ye must die; but if by the Spirit ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

I see this is an old sinners thread started up in Aug of 07..I looked around and realized as I long have, that I am not an old sinner saved by grace. I am a new man created in Christ Jesus unto good works.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

A quick rewind of the tape and we jump up to these verses...


Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Thanks for the reminder...it is so easy to get into the sin theology, and having followed a sin consiouce "believer" which is really "unbeliever" around for a few days it is refreshing to see the right words in the right season for the right calling...

Opening this door in peace so hold the bashing, only seeking to understand what you are saying C...Lay down the baseball bat, please....Thanks... Gzuz if you can let C answer I would appreciate it, thanks..Even though I am using some of the things we talked about days ago...

A little back ground, by memory so if I get it wrong, sorry..I didn't feel like searching 8 trillion posts..

Observation: A few days ago Gzuz told me not to pray for him if I still considered myself a sinner and then stated some of the things you guys are saying here...

Gzuz also says, "Man, I hope we are not sinners anymore."

Okay what of Paul stating he is the Chief of sinners? Yes his actions before he was saved was terrible, but look at the text, he states, of whom "I am" chief. Not "I was."

1 Timothy 1:15 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

Yet the larger text states:

1 John 1:8-10
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves, is that not what the Word of God says?

Excellent question IKY. A friend of mine had the same exact question, and once I told him, he was amazed at just how simple the answer was, and that he never thought of it himself. lol

Do I really have to wait for C to answer it?

Yes Gzuz, you have to wait...

You know how it goes when 7 million people try to answer...

Though I do thank you for asking....

I will answer you, in love You have to realize that your spirit has been reborn and cannot sin. Your flesh can still sin, and you mind is busy being washed by the Word (be ye changed by the renewing of your mind)

We cannot be sinners saved by grace. We USE TO BE sinners, who are now saved through grace. If we are still sinners, we need to repent of that sin.

I know this is difficult to understand believe me, I struggled a long time with it: The God opened it to me:

An unsaved person lives in the kingdom of darkness. He is IN sin and cannot be righteous.

HE now gets saved:

Moves OUT of that kingdom into the Kingdom of Light: He DIES in the eyes of God to his old self and now God only sees Christ in that person.
That person now is no longer a SINNER by default, but a saint. Why do I say this: (This is the important part)
A Christian need not sin, but still CAN sin. Like Jesus in the desert. He was without sin, yet was tempted BY sin, because even He had to overcome it (by using the Word) He did not HAVE to sin, and He did NOT sin.
We also do not HAVE to sin, but we CAN sin.

Rom 6:11 Even so reckon ye also yourselves to be dead unto sin, but alive unto God in Christ Jesus.

God is saying: Look upon yourself as DEAD to sin, that is what reckon means !By faith you now look to yourself and say: I am dead (Why?: because the Bible says so )

How do I know that sin has no control over me?
Again by faith:

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you:

That is where I start. I first (by faith) walk into this Biblical truth and go and stand there. Then I look to Jesus through whom I must overcome. HE must now do this for me, because I cannot do this. All I must do is to accept that the Bible is in fact true , when it tells me that I am dead to sin, and that sin has no dominion over me anymore.

The Bible tells us that God does not hear sinners when they pray. GZUZ was trying to make us think, before we speak out something like that upon ourselves. Seeing you are in fact sanctified by the blood, you and I must take this precious gift by faith and not use our confession to come against it.

Paul was speaking that if we had to name sinners, he will win, because he persecuted the church. BUT He taught us all about it in Romans, so he was not confused about the fact that he was now in fact forgiven and a saint.

That Scripture about lying if you say you are without sin is true. You and I are still dealing with it. It is not gone, but it is powerless when Jesus takes over for you and you start believing that you are indeed in the Kingdom of Light and sin has NO power over you.God also tells you that He will not allow you to be tempted above that which you can endure and that He will ALWAYS make a way out for you as well.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as man can bear: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that ye may be able to endure it.

Yes we can still sin, but now we have the choice NOT to sin

We overcome through the Word (because that is the same way Jesus did it )

We must realise that sin has no dominion over us.

We are not sinners any more but saints. (sinners are in the kingdom of darkness)

Look , here Jesus talks about sinners and he excludes the disciples:Mat 26:45 Then cometh he to the disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Luk 6:32 And if ye love them that love you, what thank have ye? for even sinners love those that love them

Meaning of course that they were not counted as sinners by Him.

We have to see that we cannot be saints and sinners at the same time This does not mean that you and I cannot sin: and it also does mean that when you and I slip, we are lost forever. There are therefor no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (The Word..all those walking in the Word as best they can, are not condemned)

Willing sin is another story ! That brings the wrath of God upon us and we pay dearly ( been there, done that, lost everything ) His ROD and His STAFF protects us. .

Here is your Scripture that you asked about :Joh 9:31 We know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and do his will, him he heareth.

(This is obviously not talking about a prayer of repentance, because God says that if we humble ourselves and pray, He will hear us )

The Bible says:Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace.
Sin has no dominion over a believer anymore. The devil too is under the feet of the believer.




Remember its not talking about salvation here, but "sin" or "saint"

The Bible never calls the believer a sinner anymore. The Bible calls us saints
Col 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ that are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father

Act 9:13 But Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many of this man, how much evil he did to thy saints at Jerusalem:
Act 9:14 and here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call upon thy name.




You WERE a sinner once in the eyes of the Lord. Now you have been cleansed by His blood and sanctified. The fact that you can still sin and sometimes still fall, does not turn you into a sinner again. You are under the blood. Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified It was not up to us or me........Jesus perfected you already IN HIMSELF, so that you cannot ever get or take the glory. That is why it is so important to understand the true meaning of: Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.

So God wants us to use HIS logic, not our own. His Bible Logic tells us: You are dead and crucified with Christ. SO because you no longer live, God no longer looks at you as you, but now only sees Christ in you. Christ is without sin. Christ is perfect. Christ lives unto God, Christ has the power , Christ is holy.You and I (our old sinful nature) are dead and buried in baptism. What came out of the water was a new creation.

BUT
You and I have to take this by faith, we have to put Christ on by faith (so we are not to look at our failures and humanity anymore, but see everything by and through faith.......we have to agree with God) Eph 4:24 and put on the new man, that after God hath been created in righteousness and holiness of truth.


So, yes I agree its a fine line. But an important one. One step to the left and you become a sinner via your confession and one step to the right you become a saint by faith in the power of His blood.

See? Its not WORKS, but GRACE . Sainthood was GIVEN, not deserved or achieved.

C

C, that was an excellent response.

I would like to add some stuff though if I may.

Let's see, there was a short testimony I wanted to share that relates to the sinning willfully part.

And that verse on sinning willfully ALWAYS had me beat. I could NEVER understand that one, for the longest time, I just didn't understand it. But, thanks to the Lord he helped me to understand it.

Let me clear up a few things and do some talking, then I'll tell the story.

The difference between a saint (You could say a person who is saved if you'd like.) and a sinner is simple.

A sinner has not REPENTED of his sin. He refuses to. A saint on the other hand HAS REPENTED of his or her sin and their DESIRE is to no longer sin; and not only that, they have PURPOSED or otherwise stated, PROMISED not to sin anymore.

This is crucial.

See, the church these days ALWAYS, ALWAYS, AAALLLLLWWWAAAAYYYYYSSSS votes in favor of sin. Don't believe it? Take a poll at 200 of your local churches and see what happens.

What's being taught these days is this, that you are SAVED BY BELIEF, which is said in the Bible, but is false. That's not all you're saved by actually.

First off, you're saved by grace, which I don't think people understand at all. But, that's another teaching. Like I was saying, you're not just saved because you believe you'll be saved by Jesus. God COMMANDS that FIRST, before you can be saved, you DENY SIN ANYMORE IN YOUR LIFE, SAY NO TO SIN!!! This is repentance.

NOW God will hear your prayers to him. The sinners prayer is really a sinner who has ALREADY repented in their heart. Really, they're already on the road to sanctification. Actually, I don't know of any time in the New Testament where someone prayed a prayer to be saved actually. It doesn't actually say you have to.

That's why you'll see all the big ministries and big preachers leading people in prayers. They're after numbers, not true conversions. They go and brag about how many people got saved that day through their great ministry.

Anyways, the spiritual ALWAYS preceeds the physical. Repentance takes place in the heart and then it comes out the mouth in prayer to God. That's why it says that from the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Get it now?

See, remember how Jesus said he didn't come to save people that were righteous, but to save sinners? What he was trying to say is that he didn't come to save people that were righteous in their own eyes, or otherwise stated, self-righteous people, Pharisees basically. He says he gives GRACE TO THE HUMBLE, but to the PROUD, THE LAW.

That's why God brings us through many tough times of many sins and many mistakes and failures in the world before giving us his grace (Remember, UNEARNED FAVOR or KINDNESS). He wants us to appreciate his grace towards us, and when we are living in rebellion to God, and are brought the LAW of God before us, (the law which is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ) to show us how we are NOT GOOD PEOPLE and how we are VERY GUILTY before God, THEN and ONLY THEN will we appreciate the sacrifice that Christ made for us and understand Gods grace and have an appreciation for it, and be thankful. You will be less likely to decide to sin against the God whos grace you understand and appreciate.

It makes sense why he gives us some nasty testimonies like mine doesn't it?

See, the churches today just preach salvation as a way to take away the guilt. They say, it's okay, go ahead and live in sin, accept it, sin is normal, you're only human, YOU CAN'T HELP BUT SIN! That's seriously what the most highly respected denominations out there will tell you. Get this....EVEN THE HOLINESS ones will say that. Even the ones with HOLINESS IN THEIR NAME!!! Can you believe that?!

So if that were so, if you couldn't help but sin for the rest of your life, even as a born again believer and disciple of Christ....... WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD GOD DEMAND REPENTANCE???????!!!!!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! God demands repentance, because he WILL ENABLE YOU to live outside of the realm of your sinful human nature (darkness) and to live in your spiritual nature (light) which is your born again spirit. WHO IS THAT BORN AGAIN SPIRIT??? C already answered that question. It is Christs' spirit!

Read this verse with that understanding.

Romans 8:9
But YE are NOT in the flesh
but (are) in the Spirit,
IF SO BE
that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. (Holy Spirit)
BUT
IF any man HATH NOT
the Spirit of Christ, (Born again spirit)
he is none of his.

NOW you should be able to understand this....

1 John 3
4 Every one that doeth sin
doeth also lawlessness;
and sin is lawlessness.
5 And ye know that he was manifested
to TAKE AWAY SINS;

Whoa! Wait a second.
TAKE AWAY SINS!
I thought my pastor told me it was just to COVER UP SINS, or just to FORGIVE SINS!?
No no no no no, it says to TAKE AWAY SINS.

Remember this verse?

Joh 1:29 On the morrow he (John the Baptist) seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, that TAKETH AWAY the sin of the world!

John knew it too!

Yes, that is the true gospel! The REAL GOOD NEWS.

How good can the news of the gospel get?! It gets ten thousand times better than that. So much better, it would take me a very long time to cover it all.

Back to the verses...

and IN HIM is no sin.

so get this...IN HIM is no sin. We are to abide IN HIM and he IN US. Remember that?

Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in him.

6 Whosoever
ABIDETH IN HIM
sinneth not:
whosoever sinneth
hath not seen him,
neither knoweth him.
(Interesting that it doesn't say KNOWN him which is past tense, it says knowETH him, present tense.)

1 John 5:18
We know that
whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not;

Who is begotten of God? Jesus of course!

Reference:
1 John 4:9 Herein was the love of God MANIFESTED IN US, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.

but he that was begotten of God keepeth himself,
and the evil one toucheth him not.

This practically says the same thing.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin,
because his seed abideth in him: (The seed is the Word, or Christ.)

Lu 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the Word of God.
(There are more...)

and HE cannot sin,
because HE is begotten of God.

But wait, watch this!!!!....wah ha ha ha ha. I love this stuff!

1 John 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ
IS BEGOTTEN of God:

or this one!

1 John 2:29
If ye know that HE is righteous,
ye know that every one also that doeth righteousness
is begotten of him.

(Wow! So that's how he calls us SONS OF GOD! Because we really are BORN AGAIN! )

and whosoever loveth him that begat (God)
loveth him also that is begotten of him. (Christ and other SONS OF GOD, brothers and sisters)

See what I mean, I don't make this stuff up.

1 John 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, that he who loveth God love his brother also.

1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is begotten of God, and knoweth God.

1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

There are more. I think you get the point. God bless ya!

Coming up next. My testimony on when you decide to sin willfully. What can happen to you.

LOL you make me laugh brother. I agree, there are not many who do not AAAAALLLLLWWWWAAAYYYYSSS makes an excuse for sin.
I do understand that this bad teaching came down the ages and many could simply not understand how the opposite to sin was even possible: Humans always think WE must do it , where the Bible teaches JESUS DID IT already.

But these days when I look back, I can see how I use to be so confused about this myself. I went round and round, but somehow I knew that I was missing something. I took so long for the penny to drop. Thank God it did. He delivered me ! He set me free from sin. (Not that I cannot fall, but sin has no dominion over me anymore)

C

I did not want to share this really, because its not important what we do , but this have to be shared,God is so good.

I have to speak on national radio this coming Friday and do a 20 min talk on overcoming sin. God spoke to me 2 weeks ago about this. This week is one of the busiest in my life and I have no time to sit down and prepare all these Scriptures, but GZUZ the Lord has given me enough through your posts so far brother. You have used another side to this truth and opened up another bit of it, so I can add this to the talk now. Praise God and thanks GZUZ

(I have a home meeting on Thursday morning , a meeting Thursday afternoon about the satellite broadcasting, Friday morn the recording session and Friday night a charity function, Saturday prep, because I am having 20 people over for lunch Sunday and I must cook , plus I must finish a few paintings, because they are coming to look at work. I must still finish another order for today, they are picking up this afternoon........ ..when I am weak , He is strong.......He gave me all I need for Friday, without me lifting a finger )

C

Well, what happened is a few things.

I had an old friend who is an unbeliever, a nasty one at that. Very, very selfish, violent, foul mouthed, greedy, mean and everything, the works.

Well, I was working with him, we paired up to do work together because we each had different skills or something else that the other needed to make business run smoothly. So, first of all, I made a partnership with him. Big mistake number one, which I was well aware of.

2Co 6:14 Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness?

Jas 4:4 Ye adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore would be a friend of the world maketh himself an enemy of God.

So, I knew better. I knew these verses quite well. I even know them in another translation, which is even clearer.

2Co 6:14 Stop forming inappropriate relationships with unbelievers. Can right and wrong be partners? Can light have anything in common with darkness?

Jas 4:4 You unfaithful people! Don’t you know that love for this evil world is hatred toward God? Whoever wants to be a friend of this world is an enemy of God.

And don't try to reason your way out of the "of this world" or the "of the world" part....

Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they as of the world, and the world heareth them.

So, I kept working with him. Which, if was just for work would've been acceptable, as long as I didn't really make it go beyond that kind of relationship.
But that's where I broke the law, I did keep going with my friendship with him.
So, we ended up getting a lot of work together off the internet, and made a bit of money, but it seemed like I was spending a lot of time around this guy, and I really shouldn't be.
Then, he needed favors, and I'm just that kind of guy, I help people out A LOT. So, I'd help him out with rides and other things aside from working.

Then, it started turning into our old friendship again all of a sudden. I started hanging out with him, we'd go places and work on our cars together, eventually, I noticed I hadn't talked to God in a while, I was doubting in my faith all the time, starting to wonder if it was even faith I had before at all, or if it was an illusion, did I really see those miracles? Things like that. Did God really change your life? Look at you now. So the devil was all over me. And I was powerless. I started looking toward women again, and all of that. The flesh was rising up. And my faith, was gone. But back in the back of my head, I knew that God was real, nothing had changed there, I wasn't denying him, but I was denying Christ by acting against Gods commands.

So it was a long road out of that, not real long, but a couple of months or so maybe less. But that's a long time, to not have God in your everyday life for that long, and to forget about him pretty much, to be ashamed of him, to never speak to him or of him, that's terrible. NOT ONLY THAT, but all of my Christian brothers and sisters that I'd usually talk to, NEVER CALLED ME AT ALL. That was VERY unusual, they always called me, all the time. At least through emails! or on Myspace! Something!

Well, near the end of it, I started to somehow, slowly come back to studying, talking to God, seeing him speak to me and deal with me and teach me, people started contacting me agian, etc. etc. etc.

This is all to make a couple of points.

ONE...

We are not in control of our salvation like we like to think.
That is the greatest lie ever perpetrated.
WE DID NOT CHOOSE GOD ONLY.
HE MAAAAAAAAKES us choose him.
Just like he can MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE me NOT choose him.
Trust me, I didn't even like being in that place, but I couldn't help it! I even would pray against it, here and there real fast, shouting at the demons holding me back, etc.
That didn't do a thing. God was in control, and he wanted me to know that.
Just like when I became a believer, I used to say to him crying,

God! WHY ME!? WHY? I'm a nobody? I used to break into churches! I'm a theif, a drug dealer, a felon and a prisoner, I'm a terrible person, people don't like me at all, I'm terribly irresponsible, and you chose ME? Just today, that became real to me again. I was sharing some things with my mom, and she said, "I don't understand how you come to that belief, I think you've gone the wrong way, and you're in a cult." or something close to that.

I was sharing with her some revelations of scripture that I've had, that God has been teaching me through the Word, and she didn't see it. I'm not suprised really, she doesn't see much at all, just whatever her pastor tells her. So she said, "I don't see that, but I'm going to ask pastor about it." I said, "No mom, you need to go to God first, don't trust in these men, trust the Lord and learn to have a real relationship with him."

Anyways, there was a lot more, but I ended up with lots of thoughts in my mind, seemed like they were swirling around and around, coming back again and again. I kept thinking of how clear the Lord had made these things to me, and how I could see the importance of the understanding of these scriptures. And now I'm seeing them all start to tie together at such a rapid pace. And it's so amazing and wonderful, the Word is alive!

She doesn't see the importance of learning anything new though, of course not! She doesn't LEARN anything new, so how COULD she see the importance? No experience! This is so sad to me though. I'm a new Christian for the most part, only a few years, and she's been professing to be a Christian for probably close to 35 years now! And she knows nothing? That just seems IMPOSSIBLE to me!

But then, thinking about that, I looked down, in tears and said, God.............................................why? Me? Who am I, that you would show me ANYTHING? Why would you give me understanding? People don't like me, I'm hated and made fun of, I'm all these things, people don't even think I'm a Christian, because I don't do what their pastors tell them to do. Because I believe that you supply my EVERY SINGLE need, that you healed me already, I believe different things than they do, and I don't attend a church anymore. So many reasons people have, and then my reasons, I'm stupid, irresponsible, and all these thoughts came through my head of how terrible I've been. And he told me, that's right, but I'm going to show my power through you, you're going to live in the miraculous.

And I just think, a person like me, or Paul, or Moses, terrible people. Why me Lord? Who am I? But then I said, that's right, but it's NO LONGER I THAT LIVE, BUT CHRIST THAT LIVES IN ME!

And then I remember the verses like this one.

Lu 14:11 For every one that exalteth himself shall be humbled; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

But my point also is that God chose me and how do I know that? As a guy sitting in jail, planning a murder, full of hate and greed, that had everyone they talked to tell them about Christ, and when I heard the pastor at the jail speak to me about Christ, I felt the power of God come on me, and I was able to go to my cell, and to cry out to God, not to save me from hell, but to save me from my sins, to help me to stop them, to change me, because I ALL OF A SUDDEN wanted to change, and I knew that it didn't come from within me, it came from Him.

Just like when I sinned against him willfully, what did he do? He showed me how he could take me right back off the edge. He took me right to the edge of the cliff and hung me over the edge while holding onto my shirt, saying, see, I gave this to you, by my grace, and you throw it right back in my face, well I can take it back if I want to. And now I've been able to see that. He gives and he takes away, and even when I wanted to come back, he wouldn't let me, because he wanted to teach me a lesson. He is in control, and if I defy him, he will make me pay the price.

So let that be a lesson for the rest of you, that you don't have to go through the things that I have, or the things that I might. God bless you all.

Marc

Wow C, thanks be to God. That's amazing. I honestly never expect to hear people say things like that. I pray that the Lord will supply you with everything you need for Friday, however he will. Hey, do you know if there's any way to listen in online to the radio show? I'd love to hear the message whatever it is. Thanks a lot for your messages and the scriptures you've been sharing. It's been really, really interesting. God bless, Marc.


** Oh, it's about overcoming sin. That makes sense. lol **

Oh, I forgot. FYI....

I didn't know all of those verses tied together like that. I actually didn't even understand it as well as I do now after typing that out.
This happens to me a lot, I don't fully understand what I'm about to teach someone, but the teaching still comes out, weird huh? And I learn it WHILE I'm doing it.
Like when I was teaching my friend about spiritual gifts once, I didn't really understand it myself completely until I started to explain it to him (Which I realize doesn't makes sense.) then I was given the understanding while doing it. I don't know how it works, it just does.
I just learned a lot from this little thing I typed up there.
Not sure how it happens, but I know it ain't me

Hence, the whole point of the thing I typed.

It's Christ living in us, we're dead. Thanks, and God bless.
Marc

LOL yes it is

I will be speaking in my own language (Afrikaans) and it will sound like tongues to you We are recording on Friday and they will transmit (I think) in about two weeks time on a Sunday evening 7:30 (SA time)

Thanks GZUZ, that's a powerful testimony brother ! God is good hey Praise Him !